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Del Hell: Deaf and dumb

34 comments on Del Hell: Deaf and dumb

Dell Hell: Deaf and dumb

: One of the great lessons of the cluetrain era is that your customers are your best customer support agents and marketers if only you allow them … and respect them enough to listen to them. Dell does’t. As we reported the other day, Dell shut its general customer forums… which should be the place for customers to help each other. Dwight Silverman found Dell’s company line:

As for the Customer Care board, many of the non-technical issues posted there can only be addressed by authorized Dell representatives with access to customer information – not by peers as the Forum is designed to facilitate. That said, these questions are best handled through other secure online tools.

Or, clueless Dell, your customers can just blog their questions and answers without you. Or should I say, former customers?

34 responses to “Del Hell: Deaf and dumb”

  1. Jesse Avatar
    Jesse

    “Or should I say, former customers?”
    Oh snap, good one. Speaking of which, how are things going with the new PBook?

  2. Noel Guinane Avatar
    Noel Guinane

    Nothing Dell does surprises me. I think it’s confirmation that they’re receiving a lot of complaints they don’t want publicized, but I don’t see how hiding behind walls will stop the gripes. Customers will vent elsewhere and it’s not like there are no alternative outlets.
    Just so long as Apple keeps its customer forum open which I’ve found helpful.

  3. Confused Avatar
    Confused

    Is anyone else confused at how a company that sells the majority of its products via the web can be so web unsavvy. In an industry as highly competitive as PC manufacturing, service is often the only differentiator. Dell is doing a pathetic job of preempting the negative PR; shutting down the forums seems very defensive.
    The price point between an Alienware laptop and a Dell is near non-existent. With Apple switching to Intel chips, the price premium there will soon erode as well. Why would I buy a Dell again after hearing these stories?
    I have an Inspiron 8600 and have never had any problems. But it sounds like the product is getting worse and service has given way to profit. The PC industry’s rebel has been corporatized. See you Dell. Your time is up.

  4. david Avatar
    david

    SIMPLE ASSAIGNMENT FOR YOU BLOGGERS
    find at least ONE fortune 500/1000/2000/5000 :-) company that has a “BLOG” where customers can bitch and moan about all the problems they are having with their product.

  5. dfrisme Avatar
    dfrisme

    david:
    http://discussions.info.apple.com/

  6. David Avatar
    David

    That’s a discussion board my friend! A discussion board! We want a BLOG…yes a B L O G…not an antiquated discussion board. Blah! Even Dell had a discussion board before Jeff started harrassing them.
    Besides I said a Fortune 500/1000/2000/5000 company ;-) somehow Apple just doesn’t belong in that list.

  7. Jeff Jarvis Avatar
    Jeff Jarvis

    Well, David, a blog isn’t the best form for such discussion; a blog is owned and controlled by one person. A forum is a fine means of such interaction and sharing. A wiki would work for people sharing best-of-breed information. A blog works for distributed conversation.

  8. Aaron Engelhart Avatar
    Aaron Engelhart

    Several:
    http://www.businessblogconsulting.com/2005/03/percentage_of_f.html

  9. Ben Sparks Avatar
    Ben Sparks

    >>> That’s a discussion board my friend! A
    >>> discussion board! We want a BLOG…
    >>> yes a B L O G…not an antiquated discussion
    >>> board.
    a blog is JUST a message board… ‘cept a blog gives one (or multiple) person the right to start a “new thread.”
    and perhaps some common formatting items.
    but settle down… when you get down to it, they’re the same things.

  10. dfrisme Avatar
    dfrisme

    david:
    Apple is listed as 301 in last years Fortune 500.
    The discussion was about Dell closing its forums, and in your original post, you put the word “BLOG” in quotes. Blogs are typically written by individuals, not organizations, so I was not really sure what you were getting at. I’m still not :)

  11. jj Avatar
    jj

    Jeff, here’s a news item I haven’t checked out throughly yet but appears to be an understanding of the process.
    “We think there’s an opportunity here for major companies to get engaged in the blogosphere, initially as a listener,” said Andy Cooper, agency principal. “Many smaller companies get this immediately and start paying attention. Many larger companies we’ve seen are not as tuned in yet. This is a way for them to get started by systematically listening to the conversations that are occurring, particularly the ones related to issues that are important to their business.”
    http://www.clickz.com/news/article.php/3482081

  12. David Avatar
    David

    > so I was not really sure what you were getting
    > at. I’m still not :)
    I wasn’t really getting at anything just doing some trolling ;-) because Jeff killed my birthday puppy.
    This is offtopic but you seem like an apple cultist so you should enjoy the following commencement address by your grand poobah. In case you hadn’t read it before…
    ‘You’ve got to find what you love,’ Jobs says
    This is the text of the Commencement address by Steve Jobs, CEO of Apple Computer
    http://news-service.stanford.edu/news/2005/june15/jobs-061505.html
    Audio versions found below.
    http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLD,GGLD:2004-31,GGLD:en&q=Steve+Jobs+commencement
    Even I was all kl@pped.out after I read it. I still miss my puppy :-(

  13. kl Avatar
    kl

    “I wasn’t really getting at anything just doing some trolling ;-) because Jeff killed my birthday puppy.”
    I knew it! Jeffery Jarvis, you apologize right this instant.

  14. dfrisme Avatar
    dfrisme

    david:
    Didn’t understand a word of that, but sorry about the puppy. You shouldn’t let them run loose like that with out a lease…

  15. Charles Avatar
    Charles

    Hmm, David wants a BLOG where people can bitch and moan about a company’s products.
    OK – http://webkit.opendarwin.org/blog . The blog for talking about Apple’s Webkit, which lies under its Safari browser and dictates how it shows web pages. Comments are open there too; you do have to register (to defeat comment spam).
    Seems like that gives Apple both discussion boards *and* a blog where folk can bitch and whine. Go to it, y’all!

  16. Mumblix Grumph Avatar
    Mumblix Grumph

    I used a discussion board once about a computer product.
    Here is an example of the “intelligent” conversation I found:
    Product X is teh suck!!1
    Yer a fag! Yuo suck!
    Your comupter is LAME!
    I’m runnign a 8 Ghz OC’d Xeon Proc, 15 Gigs of RAM, a 700 Gig Hard Drive, and an Ultra Platinum XZ-82000 Extreme vid card…YOU SUCK! LAM3R!
     If you take a paper clip and short out pins B-118 and A-247 on your proc, it’l allow you crack DVDZ!
    Anybody got any warez?
    I avoid message boards like the plague. I can’t blame Dell too much for exercising a little control over their board.
    Sometimes customers are their own worst enemy.

  17. AvengingAngel Avatar
    AvengingAngel

    Karl Rove is the biggest media story by far right now and the only discussio here is about Dell?

  18. K Avatar
    K

    This link is worth posting again:
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/2239887.stm
    Iraq May Be Prime Place for Training of Militants, C.I.A. Report Concludes:
    http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/22/international/middleeast/22intel.html?ei=5090&en=cca56f7374b2b81a&ex=1277092800&adxnnl=1&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&adxnnlx=1121127361-BNMaGpkZ862mqa2/pnG9eA
    You won’t win the war on terrorism by creating more of it.

  19. Jeff V Avatar
    Jeff V

    Well, after I read this latest DellHell post, I was hoping Dell had been listening to the rants. Over the weekend I sent tech support two separate emails about the two Dell mp3 players I own that had gone bad. I suppose I should be upset that they went bad in the first place….at any rate, within 12 hours I received responses about both of them, offering replacements for both. So, it has been (so far) a good experience for me. If they get here within the promised date (up to 5 business days), I’ll consider it positive.

  20. Chris L Avatar
    Chris L

    I believe in Dell time that 5 days is about 27, but that’s just my observation. And here I was with a busted mp3 player going to post about it. Maybe they would be discouraged by the fact that most people would say to get an iPod so it’s guaranteed to last more than 3 drops from a whopping 2 feet. And a friend of mine had a problem with a minor virus, easily fixed, and it would have cost them a ton of money and their hard drive if they called Dell Customer Service.

  21. Confused Avatar
    Confused

    David,
    You may want to check blogs.msdn.com. Microsoft’s developer blogs — hundreds of them. Also, Microsoft’s Channel9 (channel9.msdn.com). Some companies accept that bad things are said about them and the products that they produce. Disengaging from a conversation with the client base, undermines a company’s ability to credibly market a quality product in the best interests of its consumers.
    If the Jarvis’ blog reaches 10,000 users per day who also own computers and will (at some point want to upgrade), isn’t that the equivalent of a “big” client. In the spirit of viral (anti-)marketing, these 10,000 people have friends, families and acquaintances who they may dissuade from purchasing Dells. Before long, the number of potential computers left unsold as a result of Dell’s dismissal of a single, well-placed and vocal customer becomes huge.
    Will Dell recognize that individuals can be influenced to act in concert, thus bringing the full pressure of their buying power against Dell?

  22. David Avatar
    David

    You know what: If Dell were really smart, they’d hire me (yes, me) to come to them and teach them about *blogs*, about how their customers now have a voice; about how their customers are a community — a community often in revolt; about how they could find out what their customers really think; about how they could fix their customers’ problems before they become revolts; about how they could become a better company with the help of their customers.
    *************************************************
    You NOW say:
    a blog isn’t the best form for such discussion; a blog is owned and controlled by one person. A forum is a fine means of such interaction and sharing.
    ………………………………….
    Ummmm Dell already had a forum where they interacted with their customers. So what exactly did you want to teach them?
    Did you even bother to use their forums?
    Did you think the forums were too beneath you because you are the super duper blog daddy so you decided you’d bitch about it on your blog and try to get their attention?

  23. Jim S Avatar
    Jim S

    Dell is completely wrong when they say that the forums don’t meet a need that can’t be met by Dell tech support. Much of the discussion on the boards concerned “older” computers that Dell no longer officially supports. I guess I’ll never get an answer to my last question posted there, which was how to upgrade a PowerEdge 2300 server from a regular SCSI backplane to RAID 1. The system is out of warranty so Dell isn’t really interested in supporting it unless we pay a fee that a small business watching its pennies would rather not pay.
    Mumblix,
    Actually I’ve never seen any of that on the Dell forums. It was always pretty much an attempt for customers to help other customers.
    David,
    One of the gripes is the fact that Dell has eliminated those forums. Not good.

  24. David Avatar
    David

    >David,
    >One of the gripes is the fact that Dell has
    >eliminated those forums.
    They were only taken down recently (July 8th). The forums existed when Jarvis began his bloggerfit. At that time Jeff said:
    >You know what: If Dell were really smart, they’d
    >hire me (yes, me) to come to them and teach them
    >about *blogs*, about how their customers now
    >have a voice; about how their customers are a
    >community — a community often in revolt; about
    >how they could find out what their customers
    >really think; about how they could fix their
    >customers’ problems before they become revolts;
    >about how they could become a better company
    >with the help of their customers.
    Well uhhhh it seems to me if they were already running a community forum what exactly did Jeff want them to do especially now that he says:
    >a blog isn’t the best form for such discussion;
    >a blog is owned and controlled by one person. A
    >forum is a fine means of such interaction and
    >sharing.
    Did he even bother to use those forums? If Dell had those forums weren’t they already listening to their customers?
    Why would he say “If Dell were really smart, they’d hire me (yes, me) to come to them and teach them about *blogs*” now he says “Well, David, a blog isn’t the best form for such discussion”…………so what was he planning on teaching them?

  25. Deirdre' Straughan Avatar
    Deirdre’ Straughan

    My Dell story (generally happy): http://www.straughan.com/tech/dell.html
    Re. David’s assignment “find at least ONE fortune 500/1000/2000/5000 :-) company that has a “BLOG” where customers can bitch and moan about all the problems they are having with their product.”
    For years (pre-dating blogs or web-based forums) I ran a discussion list for Adaptec/Roxio, in which customers were amazed at how much bitching I allowed them to do, though the main purpose was to provide a forum in which they could alert us to problems, and help each other solve them. I figured I’d rather let them bitch where I could be seen to answer them (politely and reasonably) than off in hidden corners of the Internet where I might not see them. What customers thought of it can be seen here: http://www.straughan.com/whatido/disclistcomments.html

  26. David Avatar
    David

    > I ran a discussion list
    Did you/do you monitor the A-list blogs to make sure they are happy with your product?

  27. david Avatar
    david

    >Before long, the number of potential computers
    >left unsold as a result of Dell’s dismissal of a
    >single, well-placed and vocal customer becomes
    >huge.
    What exactly do you want Dell to do? Do you want them to keep track of every blogger who might have a complaint about them? Do you want them to ask their customers if they run a blog so they can make sure this blogger doesn’t throw a hissyfit and start complaigning? Should they ask if they are an A-list blogger and give them preferential treatment?
    >Will Dell recognize that individuals can be
    >influenced to act in concert, thus bringing the
    >full pressure of their buying power against Dell?
    Baa baa baa yes we are all sheeps baa baa Jeff told us Dell sucks so we must not buy from them baa baa baa dell lies baa baa dell sucks.

  28. T Avatar
    T

    The comparisons that were made are good and for the most part, laughable. Why? Well, letís see. When your car is under warranty it is YOUR responsibility to get it to the dealership for needed repairs. Depending on the vehicle type, YOU have to leave it with the dealerships service department and make arrangements for your own transportation. And, when the electricity goes on the fritz, YOU call an electrician and ìnote the key wordî, YOU pay him to fix the problem.
    Are you willing to pay to have a technician come out to your home or office to diagnose and fix your computer problem, when on average it can cost as much as $100.00 per visit? Letís say the issue is end-user related, so you pay for both, the service call and part (if needed). If the problem is indeed a failure due to craftsmanship and the equipment purchased is still under warranty, are you willing to pay, oh letís say a $50.00 set fee and the computer manufacture covers the remainder of the bill? Food for thought!
    Fact – The majority of all computer owners are not willing to incur the cost of repairs. They get angry and escalate and expect the computer manufacture to incur the cost. The over whelming majority of all problems are caused by the end-user who refuses to acknowledge he created the problem, but yet he will announce to the world that the problem is the manufactures, hence these titles “Dell vs. the blogosphere & Dell hell, continued: Self-service.”
    We all are so familiar with trying to load software that a buddy has given us and we run into problems during the installation that causes the operating system to blue screen or even worse, crash. Oh but it’s never our fault, so we blame the computer manufacture. Why? It’s the easiest way out and we hope by complaining we get it fix for free or upgraded.
    In most cases the end-user can be talked through fixing the system over the phone. There are times where a technician needs to be sent out and I will agree that having to open the system is scary, but if you just follow the instructions given by the technician, you can be talked through it and the experience is not always bad.

  29. Bill Avatar
    Bill

    What a complete waste of energy and time!!! This guy thinks he is leading some kind of revolution! The Dell Forums have been around for over a decade and they are still around. I don’t understand what the business case is for hiring a consumer who is whining about a bad product to creat a blog. Get your refund and buy something else. Can you imagine any customer care person listening to a person raving about lost wages/downtime. You don’t get money back from being late to work when your car dies.

  30. Deirdre' Straughan Avatar
    Deirdre’ Straughan

    David: “Did you/do you monitor the A-list blogs to make sure they are happy with your product?”
    My online representation of the company ran from 1992 to 2001. There weren’t any blogs back then, at least not that I knew of, and no A-List bloggers. We were a constant presence on the Usenet (welcomed by many, not by all) and any other online forums we could find, starting with CompuServe’s CD forums (where we were so popular that we eventually got a forum of our own). Hell, I was riding the Cluetrain before it even existed. I heard about that from a fan who suggested that what we were doing was a rare example of a clued-in company.
    If I were doing it today, would I watch the A-List bloggers? Yes. Would I give them better support than anybody else? No. I would hope to give equal and GOOD support to every customer, regardless of the size of his soapbox.

  31. Chappel Avatar
    Chappel

    As an IT admin I used to always buy from Dell. Things kept going from bad to worse and finally enough was enough. A friend mentioned to me that before you buy a computer it is best to go to resellerratings.com and read the ratings and reviews. Dell is not liked there or at most other reseller forums. I use Monarch exclusively for all my current computer needs.
    ABS: 6.6
    Alienware: 6.6
    Dell: 3.31
    Monarch Computer 9.3

  32. Mark Avatar
    Mark

    All I can think of while reading threw this saga is “Gateway Computers”. What happened to them is happening to Dell but with more fanfare. Untouchable in the early 90’s with nothing to worry about. What about them now?

  33. DB Avatar
    DB

    HDD REPLACED TWICE NOW READY TO CRASH AGAIN:
    DELL has replaced two HDD already on my 8-month old Laptop, it is about to crash in the same way again. I have one yr mail in service.
    MAIL – IN SERVICE SHAM:
    I have mailed the computer in once, it came back UNTOUCHED. When I called in–4 hours on the phone–to find out I should not have mailed it in as instructed, “How can they fix something they have no parts for???” they responded indignantly.
    CUSTOMER SERVICE LIARS:
    After 10 hours invested on the phone, hiring my own technician, replacing HDD twice; I finally got a supervisor–RONALD REYES–who promised to call me back. I got a quick “DRIVE BY Message” at the stated time of callback, and a promise to call the next day. NEVER DID—another DELL LIAR!! His extension # was not his—A FURTHER DELL LIAR.
    The Drive that he shipped was addressed wrong, delayed two days.
    The Re-Install Disc CD he sent was on time. Another empty box to –YES–Return to service place “THAT HAS NO PARTS”——again!
    THREE WEEKS LOST, ALL DATA LOST, RUN-AROUND,
    S H A M PROMISES!:
    I am still out of service. The computer is a lemon. I have lost all my data.
    WHAT A SHAM SERVICE PROMISE!!
    DB
    DBSTOCK@aol.com

  34. Satisfactory Service Avatar
    Satisfactory Service

    I say good riddance to the message boards. One day, looking desperately for help, I happened upon them and wrote two paragraphs explaining my problem. A week before anyone who could help even saw it, I was flamed repeatedly for politely requesting, once, that someone check their private messages. I was called “a donkey’s wrong end,” “buddy” by someone needlessly attacking me, and had comments made concerning my lack of a manly man’s qualities (if only they realized how right they were!). Just one question: WTF? Apparently it was misinterpreted wording, but anyone who read either carefully or further than that sentence would’ve realized my utmost sincerity and the gratefulness with which I would have received a helpful answer. I guess I should be grateful that I was helped, eventually, and that the admins took care of those trolls.
    By the way, I too have had somewhat of a lemon, but have had great (occasionally imperfect) on-site repair and was offered a new and even upgraded laptop when a replacement screen was not available. Their phone wait is long and the “technicians” are often unintelligible or unintelligent or, at the very least, condescending, but they have generally gotten the job done quickly, which is about all I ask for these days. At least they don’t tell me I need to reformat C:\…