The Reformation, continued

The Reformation, continued

: The Reformation isn’t over yet. We’re witnessing the struggle between liberalism and authoritarianism in American cultural and political life and in the world. Or maybe we’re witnessing the backlash. I wrote about this essential difference in religious and thus cultural and political worldviews and how they affect the current debate over so many issues here and here. In Sunday’s New York Times, there are two good pieces contemplating the continuing reformation:

: In the book review, Mark Lilla of the University of Chicago defines liberal theology:

It includes a critical approach to Scripture as a historical document, an openness to modern science, a turn from public ritual to private belief and a search for common ground in the Bible’s moral message.

He recounts the rise of liberal Protestantism in Germany, then Britain and America, and next its fall in Germany after World War I and into Weimar. And he says it is falling here now:

After the last Great Awakening at the end of the 19th century, liberal theology made steady gains in all the mainline American churches, and by the 1950’s it represented the consensus within Protestantism, and was also softening the edges of American Catholicism and Judaism. Yet it, too, has now collapsed. Over the past 30 years we have seen the steady decline of mainline faiths and the upsurge of evangelical, Pentecostal, charismatic and ”neo-orthodox” movements — not only among Protestants but among Catholics and Jews as well. Politics played a large role in this, especially divisions over the Vietnam War and the cultural transformations since the 1960’s. But the deepest dynamics were again spiritual.

It appears that there are limits to the liberalization of biblical religion. The more the Bible is treated as a historical document, the more its message is interpreted in universalist terms, the more the churches sanctify the political and cultural order, the less hold liberal religion will eventually have on the hearts and minds of believers. This dynamic is particularly pronounced in Protestantism, which heightens the theological tension brought on by being in the world but not of it. Liberal religion imagines a pacified order in which good citizenship, good morals and rational belief coexist harmoniously. It is therefore unprepared when the messianic and eschatological forces of biblical faith begin to stir.

The leading thinkers of the British and American Enlightenments hoped that life in a modern democratic order would shift the focus of Christianity from a faith-based reality to a reality-based faith. American religion is moving in the opposite direction today, back toward the ecstatic, literalist and credulous spirit of the Great Awakenings. Its most disturbing manifestations are not political, at least not yet. They are cultural. The fascination with the ”end times,” the belief in personal (and self-serving) miracles, the ignorance of basic science and history, the demonization of popular culture, the censoring of textbooks, the separatist instincts of the home-schooling movement — all these developments are far more worrying in the long term than the loss of a few Congressional seats.

Before I find the wrath of home-schoolers and others coming down on my head, see this as an expression of the other side of religion, the side we don’t hear much about today. Religion is not all fundamentalist; religion is liberal, too. It’s not an oxymoron.

: And on the op-ed page, Nicholas Kristof argues that religous liberals are not but should be talking to religious conservatives on their own terms, verse for verse.

His jumping-off point is the “explosive” book by former Newark Episcopal Bishop John Shelby Spong.

This book is long overdue, because one of the biggest mistakes liberals have made has been to forfeit battles in which faith plays a crucial role. Religion has always been a central current of American life, and it is becoming more important in politics because of the new Great Awakening unfolding across the United States.

Yet liberals have tended to stay apart from the fray rather than engaging in it. In fact, when conservatives quote from the Bible to make moral points, they tend to quote very selectively. After all, while Leviticus bans gay sex, it also forbids touching anything made of pigskin (is playing football banned?) – and some biblical passages seem not so much morally uplifting as genocidal….

Bishop Spong, who has also taught at Harvard Divinity School, argues that while Christianity historically tried to block advances by women, Jesus himself treated women with unusual dignity and was probably married to Mary Magdalene….

Some of the bishop’s ideas strike me as more provocative than persuasive, but at least he’s engaged in the debate. When liberals take on conservative Christians, it tends to be with insults – by deriding them as jihadists and fleeing the field. That’s a mistake. It’s entirely possible to honor Christian conservatives for their first-rate humanitarian work treating the sick in Africa or fighting sex trafficking in Asia, and still do battle with them over issues like gay rights.

Liberals can and should confront Bible-thumping preachers on their own terms, for the scriptural emphasis on justice and compassion gives the left plenty of ammunition. After all, the Bible depicts Jesus as healing lepers, not slashing Medicaid.

OK, I’ll confess that I’ve derided some as jihadists but I’ve not fled the field. And it’s not as if Kristof himself isn’t politicizing the hell out of this. But he’s right in the notion that underlies what he says: Liberals have religion, too. Liberals can call on God just as conservatives do. And they (we) should.

: My sister, the Rev. Jarvis, called yesterday and told me she’d gone through media training and I’m glad. I’ve said here before that I’ve lamented liberals’ forfeiture of the pulpit of TV and media.

During their recent fit of Popevision, the networks called on Billy Graham’s son as if he represented all Protestantism. There wasn’t a liberal theologian to be found.

That, I have said, is mostly the fault of the liberals, who disdained the populist pulpit of pop culture.

It’s about time the liberals get media training and find themselves on bookers’ list. It’s about time that liberals engage the religious conversation rather than leave it.

: This morning, I looked out from my spot in the church choir on a sparsely populated congregation. It’s the week between Mother’s Day and Youth Sunday in our church and so, as my wife observed, some folks wanted a break. And that would be disappointing — it’s always better to see full pews — but I, too, want a break sometimes. In fact, I left a more conservative church for many reasons: its homophobia primarily but also because it measured devotion, it measured Christianity by “commitment,” which they counted in the hours spent at church.

I don’t count devotion that way.

And I don’t like it when those of us who don’t count devotion that way aren’t counted as religious in America.

In the media, “religious” is becoming synonymous with conservative, devoted, fundamentalist, pick the word. And that’s not just media’s fault. That is the fault of those of us who view religion differently — the liberal, the reformed — but who do not stand up to be counted, because it’s not what we religious liberals do. I don’t proselytize. I don’t give public witness. I don’t testify. I don’t think it’s my business to impose my religious views on my neighbors. I treasure our secular nation that protects religious freedom. That’s just my view.

And so I’m not counted. The religiously liberal and liberally religious are not counted.

Some may say I’m too casual with my faith. I used to be more casual: I left the church for many years when I was appalled at the petty politics I saw there and had not yet grown to put that in its proper place. I returned when I had children — so they could have the same choice I had — and ended up singing in the choir, heading up the board, teaching church school, even giving the occasional sermon. But while I was gone from the church, I was still religious; my attendance proved nothing. And now that I’m back, I’m still more casual than others.

The casually religious are religious, too. The liberally religious are religous, too. We need to be counted, too. But I suppose we can’t be counted if we don’t stand up.

: MORE: A few weeks ago, I did a truly terrible job trying to address this when I linked to what CBSNews.com’s Dick Meyer called the “devoutness divide.” What I was trying to say then was what I just said: casual counts, too.

: One of the sessions I’m looking forward to attending at the Personal Democracy Forum Monday is on religion on the web, with Halley Suitt, Hugh Hewitt, and a founder of Beliefnet. Hugh and I have parried on religion from our different perspectives and I look forward to continuing the conversation in person.

23 responses to “The Reformation, continued”

  1. Trudy W. Schuett Avatar

    Excellent post! Much to mull over. Though it may be encouraging for you to note that there seems to be a shift in what is usually called fundamentalism. It is less about what you’d call bible-thumping and more about quiet consideration. I don’t know how else to explain it, but it’s there in the God blogs. I think some people are beginning to renew their faith due to the God blogs, because they require only that you read what they have to say, and nobody’s keeping track of when and if you show up.

  2. Tom Brandt Avatar
    Tom Brandt

    I cannot recommend enough the book “God’s Politics: Why The Right Gets It Wrong and The Left Doesn’t Get It”, by Jim Wallis. Wallis is an evangelical Christian who points out that there are over 3000 passages in the Bible dealing with poverty, but the religious right is so obsessed with gay marriage and abortion that they all but ignore the fact that concern for the poor, sick and friendless is the major part of Jesus Christ’s ministry. He criticizes the left as well for the hostility to religion many on the left have, and the fact that the left has swept under the rug the religious motivation of early progressives.

  3. Steve K. Avatar

    Jeff,
    I wonder how much you’ve read or engaged with the whole “emerging church” discussion. Brian McLaren is a leader within the “emerging church” (which, in America, is primarily “emerging” from evangelicalism/fundamentalism — although it looks different overseas). McLaren was named one of TIME magazine’s “25 Most Influential Evangelicals.” Following that, McLaren was invited to be on Larry King Live with Franklin Graham and others.
    For many of us, McLaren represents a humbler form of evangelicalism (some would actually call it “post-evangelical”) that is more progressive in its theology and practice (valuing social justice, etc.). I have a great respect for other evangelical leaders, but none speaks for me — and of any of them, McLaren comes the closest.
    I honestly wonder if MSM is inviting Franklin Graham to be on their programs not because they believe he represents all evangelicals, but because they hope he might say something controversial. This is why Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson get so much attention, as well. The MSM is hoping to stir up controversy because it makes for “good news” (pardon the pun) if things remain polarized. Can I get an Amen?
    Any way, I encourage you to check into the “emerging church.” A good place to start is with Emergent (http://www.emergentvillage.org/) and Brian McLaren (http://www.anewkindofchristian.com/).
    Shalom,
    Steve K.

  4. Francis Turner Avatar

    It seems to me that the big problem is that the MSM as a whole is flat out clueless about religion. They just about grasp the idea that some Christians believe things that they don’t about (say) abortion but are unwilling to go look for Christians whose beliefs are more in tune with theirs.
    The general lack of clue about Christianity is exemplified today in an AP article about the French non-holidday today – that is Whitmonday – http://www.di2.nu/blog.htm?20050516b

  5. K Avatar

    Tom Brandt,
    Wallis, Campolo, the Fuller crowd and a few others may self-describe as evangelical, but that doesn’t mean much, does it? Even if we cede to them “membership” in evangelical(ism), they are so far out of the mainstream that few centrist evangelicals would recognize them as anything other than the oldline, liberal Protestants they have become.
    Nothing wrong with that, of course. It seems, though, that those of us (I include myself here) who no longer fit comfortably within evangelicalism should simply leave rather than demand that the evangelical tent be distorted and stretched to accommodate our worldview.
    Wallis never was comfortably evangelical. He’s been hanging with the NCC types for years now. The only reason he continues to wear the evangelical label is that it gives him carrying power in the media. Its blatantly dishonest, but it serves him well. The guy seems to crave power and influence. Gotta pity him …

  6. Tom Brandt Avatar
    Tom Brandt

    K
    I am a Christian, but not an evangelical. I’ve heard Wallis speak in Detroit, and he sounded pretty evangelical to me. I wonder if claims that he is not an evangelical are due to his not toeing the political line, rather than his religious beliefs.

  7. Jeff Avatar

    We in the mainline/oldline liberal denominations are not unwilling to evangelize or share our faith; we just do it in certain areas (political activism, community organizing) through certain means (passing legislation, putting on “events”) and are traditionally allergic to trying to change lives or even affirm that lives can be changed, ever since the whole Prohibition thing went so bad on us (and let’s not even get into WWI — yes, I, not II).
    The only effective witness and practice we have is the Civil Rights movement, which is the template we now try to impose on all manner of areas we wish to evangelize. Personally, mainline/oldline churches could claim Medicaid/care and much of the whole Great Society set of programs, but now that the real bills are coming due, we don’t want to tick off our major donors by honestly advocating tax increases.
    I still have great admiration and faith in how liberal Protestant Christianity can be a meaningful faith stance in modern society, but the horrid antipathy to the emergent church and some weird wistfulness for liturgical worship that was never ours to start with (in the last three centuries, anyhow) is limiting our ability to be an effective voice alongside of Rev. Wallis and other evangelical Christians: not against, but not an echo either.
    And i hope Rev. Cynthia has some comments to share about media training for pastors, here or somewhere someday!
    Peace,
    Jeff in Ohio

  8. Tim FG Avatar
    Tim FG

    “Yet liberals have tended to stay apart from the fray rather than engaging in it. In fact, when conservatives quote from the Bible to make moral points, they tend to quote very selectively. After all, while Leviticus bans gay sex, it also forbids touching anything made of pigskin (is playing football banned?) – and some biblical passages seem not so much morally uplifting as genocidal….”
    Look, anyone who takes the Biblical passages as one (gay sex) for one (touching pigskin) cannot be taken seriously by me. They are not the same, yet the Liberals think they are making a point.
    Quoting selectively is the other problem. That is not an argument. Overall, Jesus said “obey my commandments.” What happened to the Liberal omission of this juicy Biblical verse? It’s rather universal and applies to both the Old and New Testament.
    Liberal theology is not silent or standing up. They are here and everywhere. They are well represented by well-known preachers like Jackson, Sharpton, and politicians like Kerry, Dean, and the Clintons.
    Most Christian believers are conservative because liberalism is a rather cool religion.
    One person’s faith is another person’s “Bible thumping.” Its pretty insulting in hearing from Liberals describe the (the other) mainstream Christian religion.

  9. Dave Maschek Avatar
    Dave Maschek

    I got here via the Howard Kurtz article in the on-line Washington Post. I find religion from the progressive/liberal viewpoint to be extremely interesting and important these days. Liberals don’t need to somehow “learn” how to speak religion; if they’re not religious they won’t be on the correct wavelength anyway. In many ways I’m an evangelical Christian, and I can easily understand some of the thinking of the Christian Right, since I attend a somewhat conservative mainline Protestant congregation. What astounds me is that the Right tends to obsess over certain things — like sex — while apparently ignoring biblical messages about tolerance, wealth, selfishness, etc. Liberals should not be afraid to frame their views in biblical/moral terms. It’s likely that our moral framework comes from the same place (the Bible) as the conservatives!

  10. Yehudit Avatar

    “Nicholas Kristof argues that religous liberals are not but should be talking to religious conservatives on their own terms, verse for verse.”
    That’s what Jews do when we have Orthodox/liberal panel discussons.
    If you want to see conservative evangelical Christians questioning their preconceptions, read “A Baptist Among the Jews” or “The Gospel According to Moses” , about Christians doing Bible study with Jews.

  11. Lynn Avatar

    Jeff, I ask this with no disrespect. But I’ve been longing to ask this question:
    …how does one seamlessly move between a Church pulpit and a pulpit that proactively advocates to the world what a wonderful program Howard Stern’s show is?
    Does a “reasonably religious” Church not find Stern’s show antics to directly oppose the intent of the Commandments?

  12. Tom Chadwell Avatar

    Great summary Jeff. I’ve been a frustrated liberal christian searching for a coherent statement of my case. You’ve gone a long way in saying what I think.
    Going verse by verse with conservatives is a great idea. Then maybe we can discuss the verse where ‘Overall, Jesus said “obey my commandments.”‘ Tim FG must have a translation of the New Testament I haven’t come across yet.

  13. Tim FG Avatar
    Tim FG

    Matthew 19:17 (New International Version)
    New International Version (NIV)
    Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society
    17″Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments.”
    Revelation 12:17 (New International Version)
    New International Version (NIV)
    Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society
    17Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to make war against the rest of her offspringóthose who obey God’s commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus.

  14. Melanie Avatar

    Jeff,
    Since you don’t really know anything about theology, making theological pronouncements in public is a really bad idea. Those of us who do theology are embarrassed for you. This is shabby writing and I expect better from you. Stick with what you know.

  15. Tim FG Avatar
    Tim FG

    “Going verse by verse with conservatives is a great idea.”
    Of course it’s a great idea. You should try it one day.

  16. Jim S Avatar

    Tim and Melanie, your version of Christianity, your reading of the Bible, is not the ultimate word no matter how perfect you think you are.

  17. metavurt Avatar
    metavurt

    Dear Tim and Melanie,
    I believe merely quoting verses does nothing to further a relationship, let alone a discussion. Yes, Jesus quoted scripture to Satan, but they were in *direct* rebuttal to the temptations and traps he was laying for Him.
    And to assume that none of us know what we’re talking about, or don’t know what the Bible says, continues to impede the path of discussion. I’m sure you’ve already assumed things about me, but just to alleviate those assumptions, let me be clear about where I’m coming from:
    born and raised in Dallas, attended Scofield Memorial Church (as in, C.I. Scofield of the Scofield Study Bible), raised through Sunday School on Ryie’s Study Series (Ryie Study Bible). For college I left Dallas to attend Moody Bible Institute, where my aunts, uncles, cousins, and grandparents have all gone (my mom would have, but that wasn’t where she was led; dad same likewise). So, Melanie, if you were tempted to make a “you don’t know theology” statement against me, I suggest you reconsider. And Tim, we can deconstruct verses all day and all night long.
    I *could* quote you numerous verses to support whatever mood I’m in just to rebuke either of you, or I can offer you this: none of us are perfect, none of us ever will be, and last time I checked, when Jesus said “Love your enemy”, I’m pretty sure he meant don’t hate/berate/harm/kill/bomb them. So when “members” of the “Christian right” do just that, it adds to the bitter taste already being left in my mouth. Every time you swat back in hostility at those around you, another disservice to the core values of *our* faith has been committed.
    Just because there are individuals out there who disagree with your point of view, or don’t live up to your theological expectations, doesn’t give you the right or the power to know and judge their hearts, let alone their souls. I think you should be pretty clear on the One who has that power (according to beliefes it *seems* you are presenting).
    And again, merely quoting verses points right back to the “thump and grind” that has so misrepresented what Jesus was all about.

  18. Tim FG Avatar
    Tim FG

    “so misrepresented what Jesus was all about.”
    I was challenged to produce a verse based on my claim. I produced.
    I did not try to provoke or rebuke. I delivered a quote.
    What happened to respect for Biblical scripture?
    You said I did certain things. That’s a slander.
    “And Tim, we can deconstruct verses all day and all night long.”
    That was never my intent especially since it would be off-topic. You try to overwhelm an opposing point of view.
    I wish you success, but I’m not a participant.

  19. Tim FG Avatar
    Tim FG

    “Tim and Melanie, your version of Christianity, your reading of the Bible, is not the ultimate word no matter how perfect you think you are.”
    I offered no commentary to Matthew 19:17 and Revelation 12:17.
    I call this selective ignoring.

  20. metavurt Avatar
    metavurt

    Tim FG,
    Uh, I’ve looked above and I see no one calling you out scriptually. I see the comment about having a different version of the NT, but I don’t see anyone asking you to back up anything with any verse.
    What part of disrespecting Scripture do you see in my post?
    Yes, from my perspective, you are doing certain things. That is not slander. Slander is a false or malicious statement damaging to a person’s reputation. As your reputation, at least in this conversation, is quite brief, I find it hard to believe that I’ve damaged it in some way. I am merely commenting on what it seems you are presenting. If you do not like me trying to figure out what you are trying to present, how about stating it clearly in your next post?
    My comment to you Tim was in response to your implied tone in your statement that we should try going verse by verse someday with someone. And again, the only time Jesus battled with verses was with Satan. Other times he was referencing them in order to teach, to encourage those around Him to follow Him.
    “Quoting selectively is the other problem…. Liberal theology is not silent or standing up. They are here and everywhere… Most Christian believers are conservative because liberalism is a rather cool religion. One person’s faith is another person’s “Bible thumping.” Its pretty insulting in hearing from Liberals describe the (the other) mainstream Christian religion.”
    Reposting your post seems a waste of space, but basically, you give no room for a liberal to find common ground with you. Do you believe there is none?
    Liberalism is *not* a religion. If so, then so is Conservatism. Keep the politics out of the religion. Jesus did, so can you. (And don’t even start about going against the government at the time; it was a theocracy, under Roman rule, remember that?)
    Republicans don’t have a God-given right to God any more than Democrats do. We’re all humans. In other words, we’re all the space away from the righteousness of God.
    If I believe that Christ is my salvation, and you believe Christ is your salvation, what exactly are we believing, that affects the end result, differently? The interpretations of the OT? Understandings of the NT? And it’s insulting for “liberals” to describe the “mainstream Christian religion?” Have you heard an agnostic describe it? A Muslim? A Jew? Yeah, sure, on camera their nice about it, but theologically all those groups are pretty far apart. There is no room for compromise. To believe either of those is to not believe as a Christian. If you equate all liberals as the same, then there is no reason why liberals can’t equate all “mainstream Christians” as the same. I hope you realize that both those perspectives assume everyone is the same, and how hurtful that can be to anyone.
    Whatever happened to moderate Republicans? Why must I assume that if you are not a Republican, then you must be Liberal? Where does that come from? And, in light of Christian beliefs, what would you call Jesus in his times? Conservative? Think about it. He pulled some crazy stuff off for His day (and still for these days!)
    I have responded to you simply because once again, I see MY faith being politicized in ways I disagree with. I don’t see Jesus saying in anger, “follow me or I’ll kill you now”.
    Can you please explain all the anger that is being exemplified by “your side” to the rest of the world? Remember, faith isn’t just about the U.S. agenda… it’s supposed to be for all mankind. If we really take to heart what the message of Christ is, then there are no Republicans, there are no Democrats, there are no elititists, liberals, far right-wing, left-wing, in between wing or whatever.
    There is you. There is Christ. There is God. It is your choice, it is your personal experience. In other words, someone else just might have a different experience in their relationship with God than you. You can quote the same verses and have different emotions and experiences and understandings than the next person. But if both of you believe in the same salvation thru the same Christ to the same God, well, whether you like it or not, you’ll be going to the same heaven via the same death. All the previous is based upon a Christian interpretation of the NT, not forgetting that the OT exists.
    Does all that make sense? And by posting, even once, you are participating.

  21. Tim FG Avatar
    Tim FG

    “Reposting your post seems a waste of space, but basically, you give no room for a liberal to find common ground with you. Do you believe there is none?”
    You don’t deserve a response with this.
    WASTE OF SPACE. Wow, what a way to have a dialog. You don’t even know if there is common ground like it should be Jesus Christ.
    Somehow I offended you by merely posting a Scriptural verse. I don’t own it you know. It is a message to everyone out there.
    You said “I don’t see anyone asking you to back up anything with any verse.”
    This is written as a challenge “Tim FG must have a translation of the New Testament I haven’t come across yet.” Either the author knows this as a fact or he hasn’t cracked open a Bible in years.

  22. metavurt Avatar
    metavurt

    Tim,
    Sorry if you took the “waste of space” wrong – I just saw that both of us were posting quite a bit (I more guilty than you, in terms of space) and so I was trying to keep the post short. But I wanted to make sure you know which statements I was talking about.
    In terms of what you owe people… no, of course not, none of us owe anything to anyone, at least in a humanistic viewpoint. In a Christian viewpoint, you know exactly what you owe One, and so, indeed, indirectly, you are responsible for what you say and do *not* say in response to me.
    It was not the posting of the Scriptures that offended me; it was your use. Once again, rather than trying to understand where the other person was coming from, you merely rebutted with two verses. That’s not conversation. Even Jesus said more than just “here’s a verse” to Satan. You can do better than this.
    Back to the main topic, what exactly were you trying to present? You have yet to answer those questions in the previous post I submitted.
    Again ~ I’m sorry you weren’t in my head and could see what I was trying to say… I just knew I was posting lengthily, and wanted it shortened, but I didn’t see how. Redundant information to me, in any forum, is a waste of space. I’m a database administrator, so anything being repeated is a waste.

  23. Tim FG Avatar
    Tim FG

    OWN, not owe. Please re-read my post.
    Until you get it right, no more discussion.
    You said “waste of space, but basically, you give no room for a liberal to find common ground”
    WASTE OF SPACE and NO ROOM.
    If you have no room, why would you waste it?
    You said “what exactly were you trying to present?”
    Until you stop misrepresenting both your and my comments, I won’t answer. You’ll immediately misrepresent my answers.