The final Maher: Sullivan v. Chomsky & Maher

The final Maher: Sullivan v. Chomsky & Maher

: As is my habit, I watched Bill Maher a day late. It’s the season finale coinciding with the Democratic finale.

: Former Sen. Alan Simpson lectures Bill Maher for making fun of not only the religious right but also of gays. It turns downright nasty. Maher was trying to be nice to Simpson. But Simpson, in his curmudgeonly way, was also trying to lecture the left, telling them what I say below: You’ll never win an election if you make fun of people who go to church.

: Susan Sarandon starts going off on her dumb paranoid drool about election fraud. “Come on, he lost. He lost by a lot of votes,” says the sensible Maher.

Maher asks whether “all the show people stumping for Kerry did more harm than good.” Good question. Doesn’t matter what Sarandon’s answer is.

: Maher says Andrew Sullivan having a must-read blog inspires him to get on the internet. Maher used to blog.

: Andrew says that the Hollywood left did their best to win the election for Bush and galvinized the center of the country by patronizing to them. Same message below (and shortly above). “People are tired of being demeaned. Don’t demean people and then expect them to vote for you.”

: Sullivan says people in the middle of the country felt “they were being written out.” Maher replies: “How were they written out? They’re running everything?”

: Sullivan does very well on this show; he’s the best guest Maher has. He should be on TV regularly — as in, paid to be on TV.

: Maher talks to Noam Chomsky, who’s being professorially glib.

“The invasion of Iraq was simply a war crime,” Chomsky says to Maher’s audience’s hooting.

Maher treats Chomsky with a gentleness he gives no guest: “Why do you think we did Iraq?” When did Jay Leno take over the show? Why for Chomsky? Fill in your answer here.

Maher says the world is not better off without Saddam Hussein; he said the people in his rape rooms are better off but the world is not. Even Chomsky won’t pull back that far. Chomsky says the world is better off without Saddam Hussein.

: Sullivan reacts: “Welcome to the world view of the far left in which the United States is the source of all evil… That is why you lost the election.”

After purring for Chomsky, Maher yells at Sullivan.

Maher tries to say that Chomsky has a different definition of freedom and democracy. Sullivan says quite rightly that’s wrong: There is either freedom and democracy or there is not.

Sullivan: “You don’t have to believe to the United States is perfect to believe it is a force for good in this world.”

He says listening to Chomsky denegrate the United States as he does is wrong and is “one of the reasons the left has lost.”

He challenges Maher: If Sullivan is supposed to condemn the Jerry Falwells and haters of the right, should he not condemn Chomsky as a hater of the left?

“You treated him like a folk hero. You didn’t ask him a single tough question.” Amen, Andrew.

34 responses to “The final Maher: Sullivan v. Chomsky & Maher”

  1. elmegil Avatar

    Maher treats Chomsky with a gentleness he gives no guest
    But a gentleness he treats most of his call in people. I’ve seen him soft pedal a lot of the callers, left and right, as opposed to his panelists.
    Doesn’t mean Sullivan isn’t right, but I think you’re reading too much into Maher’s handling.

  2. PJ Avatar

    I saw it last night and thought Sullivan was a man on fire, blasting the left on their utter shallowness in no uncertain terms. It seems he’s discovered his true moral core once again (now that the folderol is over) and was really magnificent.

  3. AndrewBB Avatar

    It was a rela good show. I like Sullivan because he actually – gasp – thinks about his vews and positions. And I don’t always agree but I can and do respect him.
    But I’m trying to think of the last time the right has respected the left.
    Dean Esmay et al said Alan Simpson gave the smackdown to Maher (which is an example of why I detest the Esmay distorted World vision. I think Simpson was stretching his new found Republican power (I’ve seen him elsewhere much more even-handed and willing to agree with both sides) Simpson just seemed to be going off on a ghose of his own making. Maher held his own. I don’t agree with Maher all the time either and think his show would perhaps be better without an audience.
    It’s the best thinking show on TV. A great show. Did you miss “new rules?”

  4. Dean Esmay Avatar

    Maher, being a hateful bigot and general creep, got exactly the smackdown he deserved from the eminently reasonable Simpson. It’s nice to see vicious assholes like Maher finally brought down a peg.
    By the way, for the record, I’m always pleased to hear that I am detested by unreasonable and irrational people.

  5. tony Avatar

    i’ll miss maher.
    dl hughley was also pretty good too.
    one odd thing about andrew sullivan, who comes across far better on tv than he does on his blog, imo, was exactly one of the lines you quoted him saying “That is why you lost the election.”
    even though sullivan voted for kerry, and will probably be voting democrat in four years if he sticks to his one-issue ways.
    andrew, you lost too.
    we all lost.

  6. Dean Esmay Avatar

    I suppose I should say this though: while Bill Maher is, quite inarguably, a horrible, hateful bigot and a deeply ignorant man, he does (unlike some people I won’t mention) show signs of self-awareness. He’s probably too old and set in his ways to change, but I hold out some small hope for him.
    Meanwhile, I am still astounded that a person as intelligent as Jeff Jarvis actually finds Maher watchable, let alone defensible. The man is so painfully paint-by-numbers unclever and disgustingly bigoted I am regularly shocked that he has a career. It makes me wonder: are you “blue staters” so completely lacking in introspection that you can’t see what a bigot this man is? Or how horribly offensive he is? He’s like a left-wing Michael Savage. Don’t you see that?

  7. Jon Lester Avatar

    I didn’t get to see this appearance we’re talking about but I agree that Sullivan’s time has come for a TV show of his own. It could only be constructive.

  8. Jon Lester Avatar

    I didn’t get to see this appearance we’re talking about but I agree that Sullivan’s time has come for a TV show of his own. It could only be constructive.

  9. Dean Esmay Avatar

    we all lost.
    We did? Gee I thought Kerry said it best when he said that when you wake up in the morning you’re an American, and that means you win.
    Free, fair, and open elections in which power is transferred (or held) peacefully are always a win if you ask me.

  10. tony Avatar

    kerry is a gentleman and a politician giving a polite concession speech. i dont have such burdens.
    a little more than 100k ohio votes decided which of two very different paths we’ll go down.
    the wrong choice was made.

  11. Richard Bennett Avatar

    Hughley was nothing more than a waste of time, not as reprehensible as Chomsky, just an intellectual void. I’ve had my car parked by people with better minds than his. Sarandon was even more pathetic.
    Contrary to the conventional wisdom that tony’s faithfully regurgitating here like a robot, the election wasn’t just decided by 100,000 people in Ohio, it was decided by all of the 59,000,000 people who voted for President Bush, or at least all of them that did so in the red states. The last state to report is no more important to the bottom line than the first state to report, actually.
    I also enjoyed seeing Maher being put in his place by Simpson and Sullivan, because I’ve seen him bully good and decent people like David Dreier on that show by surrounding them with three liberal puppets who won’t give them a fair chance to speak. When Maher started his deal on Comedy Central years ago, he was fun and edgy and bold, but as time has gone by and he’s sold out, he’s become the politically correct thing that he used to hate.
    There is no reason to keep him on the air.

  12. Tom Avatar

    Tony – re: “even though sullivan voted for kerry,…”
    Sullivan did not vote for Kerry – Sullivan is not a U.S. citizen – Sullivan asked other people to vote for Kerry because he was upset over President Bush’s stand on Gay marriage (i.e. against same.)
    Tom

  13. Christopher Blosser Avatar

    Dean Esmay “Meanwhile, I am still astounded that a person as intelligent as Jeff Jarvis actually finds Maher watchable, let alone defensible. The man is so painfully paint-by-numbers unclever and disgustingly bigoted I am regularly shocked that he has a career.”
    I can barely tolerate Maher, but I do find his selection of guests interesting enough. Andrew Sullivan was in good form last night.
    On that note, I’m hoping John Stuart recovers from the election, stops being such a sourpuss and finds his sense of humor again.

  14. Jabba the Tutt Avatar
    Jabba the Tutt

    Maher tries to say that Chomsky has a different definition of freedom and democracy. Sullivan says quite rightly that’s wrong: There is either freedom and democracy or there is not.
    Friedrich Hayek wrote a little book called the “Road to Serfdom”. He was an Austrian economist, who went to teach at the London School of Economics after Hitler took over Austria in the 1938. Hayek compared the atmosphere there to the atmosphere in the German-speaking world in the ’20s. One characteristic of this atmosphere was the promise by the totalitarians of ‘new freedoms’ for the ‘old freedoms’.
    Freedom of speech, right to property, self-determination were old-fashioned and out of date. This sounds exactly like what Chomsky is offering and Bill Maher is buying into.
    Sullivan desires credit for slapping that down.

  15. Pixy Misa Avatar

    Actually, Maher was right on that. Chomsky does have different definitions for “freedom” and “democracy”. But Chomsky has different definitions for everything. That’s the game he plays: Change the words so that they no longer mean anything, and then no matter what you say it’s always true, and no matter what your opponents say it’s always wrong.
    I loathe Chomsky even more than Michael Moore. At least Moore doesn’t attempt to destroy language.

  16. PJ Avatar

    I gave up on Jon Stewart long ago after his millionth Bush-is-stoopit joke, and Maher’s new rules are the only reason I still tune him in — watching him feed the lone conservative to the piranhas is too painful. IMO Hughley represents the worst of that show. He screams non-sequiturs about racism in answer to every question and then hops into his limo.

  17. bob Avatar

    chomsky IS a folk hero – and should be treated with respect – there is no one comparable on the right, that is why they are jealous
    and as far as sullivan’s energy – don’t confuse steriod side-effects with inspiration

  18. docob Avatar

    “kerry is a gentleman and a politician giving a polite concession speech. i dont have such burdens.”
    Wow, tony, at least you admit to not carrying the “burden” of being a gentleman.
    “we all lost.”
    You apparently got slapped down so hard it knocked the “shift” button off your keyboard.

  19. docob Avatar

    Damn, bob has the same problem. What is it with lefties and the fear of capital letters?

  20. Ray in Chicago Avatar
    Ray in Chicago

    I don’t have cable, but after this discussion I decided to download and watch the show, thanks to …. Bittorrent! Jeff, bittorrent solves all evil and missed TV in the world.
    http://www.tvtorrents.net/bt.php/real.time.with.bill.maher.s04e13.pdtv-loki.torrent

  21. pianoman Avatar

    Good for Sully. I might start reading him again. Provided he can write about more than one subject, that is.

  22. LXJ300 Avatar

    I disagree with the Bush administration’s push for a marriage amemdment and I think Sullivan is brilliant. That said, it was an easy choice in the election. If the Democrats would stay away from using people like Cher and Ben Affleck to get their points across, they might stand a chance. Of course, thats only one aspect of their FUBARed campaign.
    Sullivan? Steroids? I don’t get to the gym enough, what does one have to do with the other. He looks great to me considering that he has a terminal (probably) disease.

  23. David Crisp Avatar

    Sullivan and Simpson have a point when they say that demeaning Christians won’t win elections. But neither addressed the obvious corollary: The most demonized voters in American life are liberals. Is it OK to demean people who can’t muster a majority?
    It’s a particularly telling question for Sullivan, who may not be a liberal but relies upon liberal values to live his life the way he wants. Maher rightly pointed that out, and Sullivan wisely backed off.

  24. Knemon Avatar

    AS is not a one-issue guy.
    He’s at minimum a three-issue guy: homosexuality (listed first on his blog), the war, fiscal conservatism.
    He convinced himself that Kerry couldn’t be worse than Bush on the third, wouldn’t be much different on the second (this is where I think he deluded himself most ), and was more to his liking on the first.
    I got just as tired of his six-month ideological strip-tease act as everyone else, but we shouldn’t reduce him to a caricature.

  25. JorgXMcKie Avatar
    JorgXMcKie

    docob: You probably missed the announcement. Capital letters are a form of oppression, and they deny the work done by non-capital letters. Thus, in the name of equality, no capital letters must be used.
    Maher would be marginally watchable if he would quit stacking the guest list in order to bash non-liberals.
    Noam Chomsky is a detestable man, who lives none of his preachings that I can see. He reminds me more of one of those transparently phony tv evangelists than anything else. It’s just that he wants his followers to send him support from their limited intellectual capacity rather than money from their limited income.

  26. docob Avatar

    Thanks for clearing that up for me, JorgXMcKie. =)
    Agreed on Chomsky, btw.

  27. Xavier Botero Avatar

    I never do this, but I’m going to have to link to my comments on Sullivan and Chomsky. Because I feel so strongly about both of them, I wrote at such length that I couldn’t fit it here in this section.
    Just to clarify again: I’m not a linkmonger. But I do hope some people come over and let me know they think of my arguments, because, as I said, I feel pretty strongly about both of these guys. Also, I think I address just about everything Jeff mentioned in his post.

  28. Xavier Botero Avatar

    One last note: Thank you Windy City Ray. I was dying to watch it; the link was golden.

  29. wag Avatar

    The comments by Jeff and the commenters here and elsewhere including AS, on Chomsky are pretty interesting. Chomsky made several very specific points during the Maher interview. AS denounced them as lies and then cited one as a lie (the 100,000 dead iraqis figure) which very likely is true, according to the best information now available on the death toll from the war.
    Chomsky made other points such as the fact that the invasion of Iraq was a violation of international law, and that the goal of the Iraq invasion was to gain control of oil supplies, get permanent military bases, and make Iraq a client state. The first point has also been made by noted anti-war activist Richard Perle, and the other is patently obvious to just about anybody who is able to analyze US foreign policy without slipping into emotionalism.
    I hereby challenge any of you to refute substantively Chomsky’s comments on the show. They were very reasonable and easily backed up by facts. You are all ideological lapdogs and its funny watching you (and Sullivan) refuse to evaluate Chomsky’s comments on their merits instead of reflexively name-calling.

  30. lexine Avatar

    “I hereby challenge” LOL
    Sorry, but Noam Chomsky is no more credible than Michael Moore. He just uses bigger words.

  31. w Avatar

    Wag,
    Not only do we not want to refute Chomsky’s comments for the sake of pleasing you, we don’t need to. bout time you start backing up his statements, for we are now the ones that need to be persuaded.

  32. Ed Rusch Avatar

    Jeffo writes:
    “Susan Sarandon starts going off on her dumb paranoid drool about election fraud.”
    Jeffo’s policy is:
    “No personal attacks, hate speech, bigotry, or seven dirty words in the comments or comments will be killed along with commenters”
    Geez, Jeffo, what a hypocrite!

  33. Pixy Misa Avatar

    Nothing Chomsky says is true. If he says “the” it’s probably a lie.

  34. SPQR Avatar

    Actually wag, if you are refering to the study published in the Lancet on Iraqi casualties, the methodology of that “study” is a joke and the rush to publish it despite its poor peer review indicates that it is political propaganda not science.