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It can happen to you II

16 comments on It can happen to you II

It can happen to you II

: My friend Hossein Derakhshan, the pioneering Iranian blogger, reveals that he is under death threat:

U.S. election aside, hot topic of the last couple of weeks in Persian blogosphere has been a blog called “Islamic Army” in which its anonymous author has threaten a big list of Iranian blogger for their “insults” to Allah, Prophet Mohammad and other Shia Imams….

They now have picked particular posts from my Persian blog, in which they think I’ve insulted the God, and other sacred concepts of Islam and therefore, quoting from a Quranic verse, I deserve to be killed….

I never took them seriously before, but this time I’m a bit concerned, because they seem to be a different group who have possibly liked the original blog and have tried to adopt their message and to prepare enough evidence for the original claims, at least about me….

This is real and it is frightening.

See the tragedy of Theo Van Gogh, murdered because he dared to criticize Muslims.

It can happen to Van Gogh. It can happen to Hoder. It can happen to anyone. Even you.

: Hoder writes this, ironically, on the fourth anniversary of the vibrant, revolutionary Persian blogosphere.

: I spent more than an hour last night watching the vlogs of Theo Van Gogh. I don’t speak Dutch. Doesn’t matter. What I see here is a charming, liked, funny man full of life and talent. And he is gone because he dared criticize Muslims.

Imagine if Jon Stewart were gunned down because of a skit or Jay Leno because of a joke. That is what happened here. It is an atrocity. And it didn’t happen in Iraq. It happened in Amsterdam.

It could happen here.

: This sounds familiar:

Deputy Prime Minister Gerrit Zalm, announcing a review of security after a government meeting on Friday, spoke of

16 responses to “It can happen to you II”

  1. Je Avatar
    Je

    Speaking of Iranians, this is a good read: http://www.iranian.com/HosseinBagherzadeh/2004/November/Christian/

  2. Josh Avatar
    Josh

    I think you are guilty of fearmongering in this case. Am I, specifically me, in danger of having this happen to me? No. Not in the slightest. And Jon Stewart and Jay Leno? I bet they voted for Kerry, and would be both happier and safer had we not invaded Iraq. I bet Van Gogh would have voted for Kerry as well, had he been able. These people choose to put themselves in danger because of what they believe in. Let them make the choice and don’t encourage the misguided fears of others to make decisions for them. Sure, it theoretically “could” happen to anyone, but realistically it won’t. It certainly won’t happen to “you” in the vague and all-encompassing sense of the word.

  3. Jeff Jarvis Avatar
    Jeff Jarvis

    Josh: Please stand back and look at the offensive logic of what you say: “These people choose to put themselves in danger because of what they believe in.” That is the same logic that says we invited 9/11 because we are American. No one invites murder, damnit.

  4. Josh Avatar
    Josh

    I’m not saying they are inviting danger, I’m saying I believe they would rather live in a free world and risk danger than live in one that restricts freedoms along with reducing that risk. Obviously I can’t speak for them, but this is the view I believe they would take.

  5. Kat Avatar
    Kat

    Do you mean a free world like this?:(A kerry voter)
    http://www.boldlygoingnowhere.net/se/02.jpg

  6. button Avatar
    button

    Jeff: this entry is right on target. I’ve been worried about this issue every since the Salman Rushdie riot in the streets of Manhattan when they burned him in effegy. It CAN happen here.

  7. Keith Avatar
    Keith

    Well, Van Gogh was a lot more extreme than Jon Stewart or Jay Leno. He wasn’t killed for a trifle, but for a very serious and moving expose of what it is like for Arab women today he did in a film called Submission.
    It is more on a par with Michael Moore being assassinated by some kind of “patriot” or Rush Limbaugh (for a right-wing example) being slaughtered by Al Qaeda on Madison Avenue in broad daylight.
    It is doubly (or quadruply) shocking to the Dutch that this happened because they are not used to assassinations. In contrast to Spain’s ETA, Ireland’s IRA, or even our own relatively frequent presidential assassinations, before Van Gogh’s and Pim Fortuyn’s killings, the last political assassination in Holland was William of Orange in 1584.
    This really could be their 9/11. I spoke with a Dutch friend today on the phone and he said the whole country is ready to riot against the Muslims there. Apparently 80% of the country is up in arms, ready to make major changes to start taking back their country, but there is still no political party to represent them. (The other 20% are roughly 10% muslim immigrants themselves and 10% left-wingers who think this is all the fault of the Dutch people.)
    With Rotterdam more than 50% Islamic now, and 28% of all Dutch recently polled wanting to leave the country permanently, it remains to be seen whether NL is beyond hope or not. Let’s hope for hope.

  8. Kat Avatar
    Kat

    Good article in the Scotsman–they used to think like Josh, but times are a changing.
    http://news.scotsman.com/international.cfm?id=1286272004
    {“This should also apply to extremists who have dual nationality. They have no business here. In addition, the range of extremists to be kept under surveillance needs to be expanded. If more money is required for all this, then that money must be made available. It is more than worth it for the sake of the citizens

  9. Alan Gutierrez Avatar
    Alan Gutierrez

    Jeff, I think you are right on this one. If you can have an assassination in Amsterdam, why not in London, if in London, why not in New York or Detroit?
    How is the threat of violence used to restrict speech by these extremists to a lesser extent day to day? A filmmaker or a lawmaker might have bodyguards and public eye to protect them. What about the housewife who is threatened with beatings if she challenges the will of her husband? Who would dare challenge the teachings of a radical cleric if you had to live next door to his followers? To me, such extremes are evidence of a patterns of intimidation, this is just a wake up call to how prevalent it is.
    The other side of, it could happen to me, is if it can happen in Amsterdam, what must it be like in Saudi Arabia. There freedom of speech is not core to the society, suppression is core to the society. You get a good idea of why there is no criticism of Islam from within Islam.
    Oddly, I’m concerned about voicing even these statements, since I live in Ann Arbor, and I’m afraid of being labeled a bigot. It is odd how some people (Josh?) like to side with the use of violence to suppress filmmakers, but not to suppress terrorists.

  10. John Avatar
    John

    Kat- Thanks for the link to the Scotsman.
    What is primarily of interest to me after this event and others like it is: Where are the voices of so-called Moderate Islam?
    I suspect that if they do exist, their objections have been and will continue to be suppressed by the threat of actions such as this murder.
    I pose the hypothetical questions:
    What if the so-called moderates do not exist in significant numbers?
    What if those who would otherwise be considered moderates are, by their silence, passively justifying this type of intimidation?
    The wishful thinkers who believe that we just need to be more tolerant should ask themselves these questions.
    The battle for the soul of Islam is going on within Islam itself. It has very little to do with us or whether or not we are fair and nice people.
    I pray that there is a “Moderate Islam”, and that we hear from it soon.

  11. mary Avatar
    mary

    The only solution to this atttempt to stifle free speech is to raise our voices. Radical Islam and the Wahhabi cult that supports it should be treated with the same respect that we showed a similar cult, the Thousand Year Reich.
    If Van Gogh’s film, Submission, offends radical muslims, then it should flood the airwaves till those sh*ts choke on it.
    I was planning to post a link to the film on my site, with bits from the script and some stills. I was also hoping that some kind of blogburst could be coordinated..
    Unfortunately, I haven’t been able to find a copy of the mpeg. Maybe my google skills aren’t up to par, but even the dutch sites lead to non working links (or pr0n). Does anyone know of a reliable source that offers a dowload of ‘Submission’?

  12. Anna Avatar
    Anna

    Ian Welsh in
    http://www.bopnews.com/archives/001904.html#1904 –
    “Immigration can cause real problems. If you won’t acknowledge those problems, which in their own ways neither traditional left nor nouveau right will, then there will arise those who will address those problems, perhaps in ugly and unfortunate ways. No country should take more people in than it can absorb.”

  13. Peter Avatar
    Peter

    I found a bittorrent link to the documentary:
    http://66.90.75.92/suprnova//torrents/2963/Theo%20Van%20Gogh_-_Hirsi%20Ali_-_Submission_xvid-avi.torrent

  14. Kat Avatar
    Kat

    Mary–I read Robert Spencer’s dhimmiwatch and this was a posting. Hope it helps.
    http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/003757.php
    {Horrible news, we’re all bloody shocked. Submission can be downloaded from here:
    http://www.pipp.nl/downloadpro/download.php?file=0
    I couldn’t get it to work correctly, just the sound. Maybe you need a special codec for it.
    Posted by: Leveller at November 2, 2004 08:57 AM }

  15. mary Avatar
    mary

    Peter , Kat – Thanks for the links! There’s also a copy on eDonkey, but my husband, who does computer security for a living, has found a few suspicious things, and he’s doing extensive checks for viruses. It’ll be a while before I can view them.
    I never thought this would be so hard to find. Apparently, the Dutch Government, which financed the film, is now trying to hide it. According to the Belmont Club:
    Gogh’s film “Submission” which offended his murderers in the first place,
    was pulled from the Stedelijk Museum of modern art because it might cause an “uproar”; the same film was yanked off Rotterdam TV West for fear it would endanger their employees. Instead the Dutch PBS ran a special program to discuss: “‘how a multicultural society should deal with freedom of expression”

  16. Jeff Jarvis Avatar
    Jeff Jarvis

    Leveller: Yes, you need to go get the xvid codec and it will work; worked for me.