Progress?

Progress?

: Well, how nice, I think: The Observer in London is doing a story on the progress of democracy, modernism, civilization, and rights in Afghanistan. The writer goes on about the public executions and bans on women in public he witnessed in the days of the Taliban. But then comes this amazing bit of apologia for the Islamic fascists who ruled that nation and played host to the terrorists who murdered my neighbors:

For all their failings, the Taliban brought security to many areas where there was none. Impositions that were shocking in the cities were not impositions at all in the vast majority of Afghanistan….

The Taliban’s security meant that when, crippled by an enormous hangover, I left a wallet containing my passport and $1,500 on a bus, it was returned intact. It meant you could hail a cab and go virtually anywhere, provided you took the precaution of first checking in with the local warlord or Taliban official (often the same person). I slept in villages, military bases, the occasional fly-blown hotel, or in chai khannas, the roadside inns where tea and food (chai and khanna) are served to travellers. In one, just outside the town of Qalat on the road between Kabul and Kandahar, I woke at dawn to find everyone, guests and staff, lined up in the dust of the road for dawn prayers. I lay wrapped in blankets and watched them. It was an insight into the depth of local piety. Imagine a Travelodge on the M4 emptying into the car park for prayers at 4am. This was not fundamentalism or extremism. It was simply an expression of a faith that articulates every part of life….

No one in the West took much notice of the Taliban until they arrived in the capital and began imposing their infamous bans – on weather forecasting, representations of living things, leather jackets and ‘Western hairstyles’, pigeon racing, kite flying and most other forms of entertainment. Yet the reasoning behind this extreme rigour deserves understanding and even, controversial though it may be to say so, a degree of sympathy….

There was a perversely logical rationale behind the bans. The Taliban imagined the life they had lost as an idealised version of rural tribal society. That life, with its supposed purity and social justice, could be enjoyed once more if everybody followed the Shariat, the corpus of Islamic law, particularly where it intersected with local traditions that were threatened by change. And if people didn’t want to, then for the greater good of all, they needed to be forced to.

Yes, how nice. And the Nazis made the trains run on time (even it was the concentration camps). And the communists supported the arts (except for the artists sent to the gulag). And the Khmer Rouge appreciated the value of country life (and death).

The nice side of the Taliban. Incredible.

24 responses to “Progress?”

  1. Luke Avatar

    “It meant you could hail a cab and go virtually anywhere, provided you took the precaution of first checking in with the local warlord or Taliban official (often the same person)”
    I take it the author wasn’t a woman.

  2. Morgan Avatar

    Question… un-related to the topic… but WHY can’t these blog comments be in “wwwboard” format not unlike:
    http://musicradio.computer.net/wwwboard/
    i mean the comments are great, but it is so hard to follow an arguement at times. ya know?
    just a thought – ymb!!!

  3. Robert McClelland Avatar

    I don’t see any apologia there, Jeff. What I did see was an article comparing life before and after the Taliban.

  4. oscist Avatar

    “The Taliban imagined the life they had lost as an idealised version of rural tribal society. That life, with its supposed purity and social justice, could be enjoyed once more if everybody followed the Shariat, the corpus of Islamic law, particularly where it intersected with local traditions that were threatened by change.”
    The Observer sympathizing with a conservative viewpoint? (albeit extreme in this case)
    What have they come to? Woops I forgot; anything that goes against Bush. Of course.

  5. Farshid Avatar

    In middle east history (might be true for other areas as well), there is always a trade of between the level of security and the degree of freedom, it might be interpreted as a contradiction? but it is a historical observation! Thogh needn’t be a universal rule!

  6. Jig Avatar

    Is it really a bit of apologia, or is that just how you are choosing to read it?
    To put it another way – could the author contrast security pre and post taliban, and sound less “apologetic” to you?

  7. Dave Schuler Avatar

    Jeff, I disagree completely with this post. It was Mussolini who made the trains run on time. ;-)

  8. mary Avatar

    I once heard a BBC discussion about Arab/Muslim-imposed slavery in the Sudan and the long history of Arab slavery in Africa. One British ‘authority’ on the slave trade said that modern Arab slaveholding was ‘more just’ than the older American form of slavery, because it was based on religious laws, not profit.
    The fact that he was pardoning current religion-based crimes against humanity by comparing them to a system that has not existed for a hundered years did not occur to this prat.
    There are some British ‘experts’ who will forgive every Islam-based atrocity, no matter what the cause. I have no idea what motivates these loons, or why the left consistently agrees with them. Multiculturalism? Excessive use of mind-altering drugs? A long history of British support of Wahhabism coordinating with Leftist hatred of America? In any case, their opinions are worthless.

  9. mCrane Avatar

    “crippled by an enormous hangover…”
    Hmmmm. I thought the Taliban frowned upon the consumption of alcohol. He’s lucky he didn’t wake up dead.

  10. Davros Avatar

    Mary, you killed your argument with an overarching statement of “In any case, their opinions are worthless.” That actually illustrates the problem with this very post.
    The Observer’s journalist has written an article from a different cultural standpoint of Mr Jarvis and yourself – and you both see this as an insult because it differs from your own views. I thought us civilised westerners believed in democracy and freedom of speech. Is that not what the Bush administration claims it’s bringing to these unstable areas?
    Why is it then, if you are supporters of the military action, that you are speaking out against the supposed reason for it?
    I visited this site with the intention of subscribing to its feed. The narrow-minded intolerance shown here has swayed my decision the other way.

  11. Michael Avatar

    Doesn’t seem apologetic so much as a thorough reflection of what life in Afghanistan was like before, during and after Taliban rule. The entire essay is quite balanced and fully acknoweldges the “darker sides” of the Taliban, your quotes here notwithstanding.

  12. mary Avatar

    Davros – in my opinion, those who believe that the current Arab system of enslaving African children is just because it’s based on religious laws..
    ..and those who enjoy some benefits from a system of brutal & homicidal oppression..
    ..are worthless. Despite that, I would never prevent them from expressing themselves.
    I wish that these ‘experts’ would express their opinions more often. I’d like to see their pro-slavery, pro-oppression viewpoints on every billboard in the city. Americans have the mistaken impression that these ‘experts’ know more about the world than we do. If we knew the truth, we could disagree openly, and we could be better informed.
    This article is a little more balanced than the pro-slavery ‘expert’ on the BBC, but when someone is very tolerant of intolerance, it’s easy to wonder about the veracity of their reports.
    Members of the American State Department will praise the lack of crime in Saudi Arabia, a nation whose ‘pure’ laws are often more extreme than those of the Taliban. How accurate is their appraisal? Not very.
    Apparently, you don’t want to subscribe to the information on this site because you can’t tolerate opinions from a different cultural standpoint. Everyone has a right to their own brand of intolerance, but it’s not clear why you’re so proud of it.

  13. mary Avatar

    oops – that was supposed to start:
    Davros – in my opinion, the opinions of those..

  14. Stan Avatar

    Sounds like Bush’s vision for America to me.

  15. Josh Avatar

    No apologia, the Taliban were undoubtably worse, and life is better without them. If the article were making excuses for the talibans crimes then it would be just as bad as an idiot liberal scumbag murderer-lover who makes excuses for saddam’s Iraq.

  16. Rachel Avatar

    But Burke is just the latest in a long line of British men who idealize Middle Eastern paternal societies. He probably loves the rough trade aspect of the Taliban. Yes, he could get drunk and not get his money stolen while widows starved to death inside their houses, with no men to work for them and themselves forbidden to work. He could hand aroudn the tea shops, smoking and chatting, while little girls would be beaten for wanting to go to school. But, the boys looked so great with their guns and beards.

  17. hugh macleod Avatar

    Yes, Jeff, but the journo HAD to say it. What was he going to say? “The Americans did a splendid job and we Europeans are completely ineffectual when it comes to this type of thing.” That would have cost him his job. And a job at The Guardian is top of the totem pole, in England. Not to mention the entire Euro-Liberal establishment. Not something to be given up lightly.

  18. Mike Avatar

    This was not an apologia, you are overreacting.
    Mary: There are some British ‘experts’ who will forgive every Islam-based atrocity, no matter what the cause. Name them!
    Rachel: But Burke is just the latest in a long line of British men who idealize Middle Eastern paternal societies. Name them!
    Perhaps we should ponder the idealization of US society. Where people are still electrocuted; where people (usually black males) can be sent to prison FOR LIFE on conviction of possesing half a gram of cocaine, under the ‘3 strikes’ rule; where people can be arrested and threatened with 6 months in prison for SELLING VIBRATORS; where hundreds of demonstrators in New York can be herded into enclosures, fingerprinted, photographed, handcuffed and denied legal representation because they dared to oppose the incumbent president. Does this make the Americans worse than the Taliban, of course not. But it does show that the world isn’t neatly divided into angels and devils.
    It’s a little more subtle, and requires a slightly more sophisticated analysis than we tend to get from a largely adolescent blogosphere.

  19. Michael Avatar

    “But it does show that the world isn’t neatly divided into angels and devils. It’s a little more subtle, and requires a slightly more sophisticated analysis than we tend to get from a largely adolescent blogosphere.”
    Agreed.

  20. Vicar Avatar

    Agreed.

  21. mary Avatar

    Mike – US society is not comparable to a society that lives under extreme Islamic law, like the Taliban, or Saudi Arabia.
    In fact, French, Thai, Norwegian, Japanese, Jamaican or Kenyan societies are also not comparable to these Shariah-based societies. Most modern societies follow laws that are meant to preserve human life and prevent genocide, racism and mass atrocities.
    Shariah-based societies encourage genocide, racism and mass atrocities. They are unique.
    Their laws also encourage the death penalty for apostasy and the abuse of women, children and homosexuals. The Shariat, the corpus of pre-medieval Islamic law, is the institutionalization of crimes against humanity. They also promote a lower

  22. Michael Avatar

    “Genocide…slavery…terrorism…. These are legally defined crimes against humanity.”
    So is torture. Luckily, American soldiers/leaders are immune from international prosecution to such crimes against humanity.

  23. Tony Alva Avatar
    Tony Alva

    Michael,
    You can argue “immunity from internat’l prosecution” all you want, but those of who you speak have NOT been immune from prosecution all together. There’s a big difference.
    Mary,
    Great post and loved the link. Very informative. Keep it coming…

  24. J1 Avatar

    “For the Greater Good…”
    The most evil phrase in the English language, loved by socialists AND the religious right.