One-person poll

One-person poll

: Here’s where I stand after last night’s debate:

Ouch. Sorry. But the fence is hurting my ass. Yes, it’s a little worse on the left cheek, since I’m leaning that way. Thanks for asking.

Last night’s debate didn’t change my thinking or my one-person poll percentages.

It only clarified my confusion.

When it comes to homeland security and the war, I lean strongly toward Bush — especially since John Kerry has started doing his Howard Dean imitation. I am a hawk on homeland security. In Iraq, I believe we must follow-through bringing security and democracy there, both out of moral obligation and out of enlightened self-interest. The reason I was comfortable with Kerry as the Democratic nominee was precisely because he voted for the war. Now I am uncomfortable with his talk of building coalitions before we act. Oh, I know, he has said that he’d still reserve the right to take preemptive action, but he has now set his expectations; he is expected to go talk to the French first or else he’ll suffer no end of nya-nyaing from his own side and that gives me no confidence. I am afraid he is going to wimp out when courage matters. No, I’m not delighted with Bush’s execution in Iraq. But I have more confidence in him to attack the people who would attack us.

When it comes to domestic issues, I lean strongly toward Kerry, for reasons that are already clear in the Issues2004 posts and will be clearer as I get back to my homework and post more. In the next debate on domestic issues, I expect to agree with him most of the time — but not all the time — and so I expect no surprises.

After sleeping on (and through it) last night’s debate, what bothers me most about Bush is religion. He won’t appoint a Supreme Court justice who won’t keep the words “under God” in the pledge of allegiance; he might as well say he won’t appoint a justice who can’t hum along to a John Ashcroft hymn. He won’t allow expansion of fetal stem cell research even though it could save lives — and he says he values life. He would ban abortion and gay unions if he could. That’s all because of his religious beliefs. Compare that with Kerry’s religious doctrine last night: He’s a Catholic but he does not believe in legislating his religious beliefs on the nation. You could say that’s a pretzel twist of convenience but I say it’s the right doctrine in a country that values protecting religion by separating it from the state.

The same determination to do what’s “right” in foreign affairs — protecting and nurturing democracy and fighting terrorism and fanaticism — is what I fear in George Bush when it comes to imposing religion on government. We’re not electing a pope here. We’re electing the executive who should run the government. The president is not the leader of our souls but the leader of our bureacuracy and we forget that at the peril of our Constitution.

OK, so now ask me which is more important — homeland security or domestic issues. And, yes, these days, I will say homeland security. Is it so important it overrides all other issues? Well, that’s a game of odds, isn’t it? Do I believe that attacks are so likely — and that Bush will deal with them so much more firmly — that it outweighs my own views on issues that matter greatly, even separation of church and state, which I take as an American creed as holy as free speech?

Or look at it another way: Kerry scares me some one the most important issue, homeland security. But Bush scares me even more on so many other issues, including his imposition of his religious beliefs in social issues.

So where do I stand? Undecided? No. Soft? Yes.

I don’t pretend that you should care one iota where I stand. But in this transparent world, we do believe in getting naked, politically speaking, don’t we, since that colors everything else we write on the issues. So I hope you enjoyed my little post-debate strip show. That’s where I stand.

Confused.

: UPDATE: Neil McIntosh of The Guardian says….

46 responses to “One-person poll”

  1. Robert McClelland Avatar

    When it comes to homeland security and the war, I lean strongly toward Bush
    I can see where you are coming from on the war issue, but not homeland security. Kerry has repeatedly identified numerous areas where Bush is lacking in this aspect and detailed how he would fix the holes (ie. checking all cargo–not just 5% of it–coming into the US).

  2. Tim Kresse Avatar

    I don’t get Bush as being strong on homeland security. Check out Red Alert in this month’s Mother Jones (I know, MoJo is a ‘liberal’ rag, but this is still an important article). Even without this article, my own observations do not bear out Bush as being strong on homeland security.
    Chemical companies don’t want to be required to beef up security, so there is no requirement for them. Airport security is underfunded. Police departments everywhere are facing budget cuts, and on and on and on … Why? Because we are at war in Iraq.
    I think Bush is strong on two things: 1) Seeing the world as “right” and “wrong” – no “in-between” and nothing to cloud that view (so many of his answers in the debates are along these lines).
    No, Bush talks a lot about homeland security, but he isn’t really strong in that department.

  3. Ruth Avatar

    Thanks for the fence imagery, Jeff, reminds me of the famous Jim Hightower quote, the “only thing that belongs in the middle of the road is a yellow stripe and dead armadillos”. Which is colorful, but not particularly accurate. Sometimes the extremes aren’t a very intelligent choice.
    Not that you should care, but my feelings on homeland security are that we desperately need some, and can’t have near enough because we’re up to our ears in Iraq. And in Iraq we’re creating violent retributive forces against us, which are a real threat to our homeland security.
    Listened to the foreign minister of that country trying to point out to an interviewer a few weeks back that democracy is a long tradition, as in Iraq they have always elected their tribal chiefs. He didn’t seem to realize that this means heads of families gathered around a fire, essentially. No women, no adolescents, no, just like colonial America. Where only landowner heads of households could vote. I tend to take note of this because I would not have the vote in these situations, although they are a version of democracy. The Iraqis have a vague understanding of democracy, one we’ve evolved away from, and if we continue killing them off in the Sunni triangle, maybe they’ll hold a sham election just to get us out. But I still agree with Cheney under the 1st Bush administration, when he agreed with our withdrawal from Iraq because it wasn’t worth the cost in American lives to bring about a regime change there.
    Our economy is a shambles too. The middle class is disappearing, and with it the strength of the consumer that has kept this economy out of radical recession for more than the past year. When our incomes won’t pay for their products, American producers are going to discover too late that they’ve cut their own IV (feeding tube, anyway).
    It’s not a pretty sight. But I saw Clinton bring us back from the Reagan years, and although we’re deeper in this time, I know Kerry and his very high quality advisors are going to get us back out of the (quag)mire.
    A friend of mine died at the age of 93 a year ago. She always reminded us that when a Democrat is in the White House, the country has prosperity. In her lifetime, it had never failed.

  4. David Blue Avatar
    David Blue

    “He won’t allow expansion of fetal stem cell research even though it could save lives — and he says he values life.”
    That he “says he” values life in this context implies a false claim.
    If the object of the exercise is to “get naked” politically, then a half-in, half-out rhetorical pose, implying something but not being accountable for it, doesn’t really cut it, does it?
    Simply, literally and without irony, do you think George W. Bush values life, or do you think George W. Bush does not value life?
    I have no follow-up question. I’m just asking for straight talk.

  5. Richard Bennett Avatar

    The stem-cell research issue has been demagogued to death by the left, that wonderful group that claims to be “pro-science” at the same time that they’re wrecked American anthropology and the social sciences generally with junk research.
    So what’s the real status of embryonic stem cell research in America today?
    Actually, it’s perfectly legal and unrestricted as long as it’s not done with federal money. Nobody is stopping Pfizer or Merck from running a stem-cell research lab and getting all they can out of embryos. Similarly, the states of California and Massachusetts can support it with their tax money until the cows come home.
    The political issue has to do with restrictions on the use of federal money to support this research. If you want it, you have to abide by the condition that you can only use existing stem cells that were harvested before the policy freeing federal money for this research was devised.
    The fact of the matter is that President Bush is the first and only American president to authorize the use of federal money to support embryonic stem cell research: Clinton didn’t do it, Carter didn’t do it, Bush 41 didn’t do it, and so on.
    So what does religion have to do with it? We live in a democracy where everybody’s views are supposed to be respected, even those of people unlike ourselves. That means that all the religious people have a right to be heard, as do atheists who claim to be all about science.
    The president’s policy strikes a reasonable balance between conflicting viewpoints, and that’s the essence of leadership.

  6. The Lonewacko Blog Avatar

    Bush is perceived to be strong on homeland security. But, when the rubber meets the road, he’s very weak.
    For a tangible example, see “D.C. hamstrings border officers: Despite new anti-terrorism demands, DHS freezes payrolls, frees illegals”.
    I provided several other links in the comments to your Homeland Security post.
    During the debate, Kerry tried to indict Bush’s homeland security failures, but he did not go far enough. He needs to talk about border security, and not just in Iraq.
    There’s still enough time, but perhaps Kerry has been in the liberal cocoon too long to understand what really resonates with voters.

  7. Ed Avatar

    Jeff:
    To help you sort out the confusion, you should list the personal liberties that you, as a person, have lost since Bush became president. Make a list. How has the Bush Administration personally limited your – Jeff Jarvis’ – personal liberties? What’s changed in your day-to-day life during the last 3.5 years in John Ashcroft’s America?
    If the list turns out to be a pretty short one, than perhaps you’ve let worst fears get the better of you. If it’s a lengthy one well, then, it would reaffirm your reluctance to vote to re-elect the president.
    Be pragmatic. Be realistic. And then see where you are.
    I’d actually be interested to know.

  8. Fred in Dallas Avatar
    Fred in Dallas

    You’ve no doubt heard the Texas expression “All hat and no cattle.” Sometimes I think folks with no real experience with Southwestern (US) culture are really taken in by the likes of GWB. Born, reared and having spent most of my career in the Southwest, it is not difficult to see through the Bush Bluster that somehow seems to mistakenly mesmerize many as being strength. Bluster is what gets us into something like this Iraq mess without sensibility. Bluster is what creates our current fiscal disaster. Bluster is what causes a guy to fly off his stool as Bush did last night, violating the rules and being uncivil to the moderator. Bluster is the petulant, lecturing, screaming voice. UNLESS you truly believe that BLUSTER makes our homeland safer, take it from a native Southwesterner who can feign it as well as the next guy: DON’T go for Bush … he’s all hat and no cattle.
    PS: Another curious aside that probably ONLY a native of these parts would discern: Bush’s Texas Twang was UNMISTAKABLY exaggerated in last night’s debate. (I’ve too found that helpful when negotiating with non Southwesterners *wink*)

  9. Greg Piper Avatar

    Jeff, I think you’re making a huge error by assuming that 1) Bush came to all his views on “life” issues through his rather watered down evangelicalism and 2) abortion, stem cells, etc. are necessarily about religious beliefs. I’ve been pro-life since I was 17, not for any religious belief but because I take medical science seriously and I don’t see how you can make life-and-death distinctions between a live birth and a fetus. They’re all genetically human, self-contained organisms that, with nourishment and shelter, will grow into an infant, toddler, child, adolescent, (rowdy) college student and adult. ESCR is a different matter for some pro-lifers, such as Orrin Hatch and Gordon Smith (both Mormons, an example where religion probably did influence them), but again, those who oppose it think (with the backing of medical science) that it destroys a human life, even at a very early stage, and human life deserves legal protection at any stage of life (look at forced euthanasia in the Netherlands, slowly making its way over here). Please do pro-lifers the courtesy of not assuming they base their views on religion and thus have no right to weigh in on a contentious issue in a pluralistic society.

  10. sbw Avatar

    Whether you think Bush or Kerry won the debate depends on what you know. If your understanding of issues is limited to CNN or the New York Times, you might well think Kerry won.
    For instance, Kerry hammered Bush as the first president in 72 years to lose jobs. He also blamed Bush for outsourcing. Some might see this as a win for Kerry. Hold on.
    If Moderator Gibson had followed up with the question, “Sen. Kerry, please explain where the job loss came from and in what way President Bush was responsible for losing those jobs.” you’d like come to a different conclusion.
    It turns out that less than 3 percent of job loss in the last three years was because of outsourcing. Some was because of 9-11, but the lion’s share of the job loss was structural — because of computerization, for instance — and not within the possibility of presidential control. If Kerry doesn’t understand what has caused job loss, then he surely can’t presume to fix it as President. If he DOES understand what caused job loss, and just wanted to bullsh*t voters into supporting him, he doesn’t deserve to be President.
    A debate is a horrible format — at least until the transcripts are given a proper fisking. “Winning” should be based on whether the candidate understands issues and whether he respects voters.
    To be fair, Bush has to drop emphasizing “87-billion” and “wrong war” clich

  11. Brett Avatar

    Jeff,
    Base your vote on what most impacts your family and your life.
    As Ed said, I don’t think it’s Bush’s religion or the Patriot Act.

  12. Derek Avatar

    He’s a Catholic but he does not believe in legislating his religious beliefs on the nation. You could say that’s a pretzel twist of convenience but I say it’s the right doctrine in a country that values protecting religion by separating it from the state.
    1. I really feel this is a sick and twisted view. So many of the great causes in life Freedom, the end of Slavery and the peace movement been fought by people motivated by religion. The Declaration of Independence says:

  13. The Lonewacko Blog Avatar

    How has the Bush Administration personally limited your – Jeff Jarvis’ – personal liberties? What’s changed in your day-to-day life during the last 3.5 years in John Ashcroft’s America?
    I don’t think that’s an accurate metric for many people to use. The question people should ask involves a series of “what ifs.” What if I decided to wear an anti-Bush T-shirt to a Bush appearance and just stand there without interfering in the appearance in any way? Millions of people would never do something like that, but many of those would also think that someone who did something like that should not have been arrested.
    That said, I haven’t been following the Patriot Act closely enough to figure out the parts where the ACLU is up to their usual spin or they’re telling the truth.

  14. Swopa Avatar

    Base your vote on what most impacts your family and your life.
    As Ed said, I don’t think it’s Bush’s religion or the Patriot Act.
    So, just speaking hypothetically, if Bush announced a plan to force all Muslims in the U.S. to report to internment camps, Jeff shouldn’t object, since he’s not Muslim? That’s some fine moral reasoning there.
    I might also note, far less hypothetically, that folks are now figuring out what Bush’s seemingly bizarre mention of Dred Scott last night was all about — it’s a coded promise to nominate Supreme Court justices who will overturn Roe vs. Wade (which the anti-abortion lobby has long compared to Dred Scott).
    Of course people knew that about Bush, but it’s interesting to have confirmation of not just the religious extremism but the contempt he has for mainstream voters. He doesn’t respect us enough to come clean about what he believes, so he speaks in code.
    And just a thought — if he’s a scheming phony about abortion, just maybe he’s a scheming phony about the War on Terror

  15. Brett Avatar

    Swopa,
    So federal funding for the murder of unborn children is morality we should all embrace? Or you don’t find it in your interest to speak for those babies killed by such a practice? Fine moral reasoning yourself… (and not a hypothetical, as was your ridiculous scenario)
    No one else can speak to my children’s needs or to their best future as I can. You can’t. You won’t. Your vote will not represent their interests, so yes, it is my very moral obligation to vote in their best interests, as it is Jeff’s for his family.

  16. Stan Avatar

    I can’t help but to be reminded of the thought that woke me from a sound sleep a little while back. It’s one of those ideas I can’t make go away.
    Despite all the hype and fearmongering, The White House and all their little pals keep acting as if they know for certain that no legitimate threat to our nation exists. Or at least, there wasn’t one when they started.

  17. Kat Avatar

    Well, leftsts scare me too when they impose their ‘religious’ beliefs on social issues. I don’t want to pay for baby killing and I don’t want my kids to be told that homosexuality is normal. I don’t want to be charged with a hate crime just because I have an opinion that isn’t PC. I think it’s wrong to harvest babies like lab rats and call it stem cell science–I call it murder. I think Bush is right about not wanting to murder babies who are viable but they are knifed just before the head comes out so it can be called an abortion–in abortion you need dead babies. We treat babies worse than animals–if I did that to aboput to be born dogs I’d be arrested for cruelty to animals. What the hell is wrong with this country and its lack of morals?

  18. pat Avatar

    I don’t know why you should be worried by Bush’s religion. I’m not religious — I think Steven den Beste is a saint for his wisdom on the subject of religion — but I have no trouble with Bush’s religiosity. One reason why is what he said in this little noticed interview with Christianity Today, Bush says:”My job is to make sure that, as President, people understand that in this country you can worship any way you choose. And I’ll take that a step further. You can be a patriot if you don’t believe in the Almighty. You can honor your country and be as patriotic as your neighbor.”
    That sure doesn’t sound like someone “culturally moored in the religious right”, as Sullivan claimed. They tell non-believers like me that we’re going to Hell.

  19. a.moose Avatar

    We’re all waiting for you and your bud Roger L Simon to compare Angry Bush to Angry Dean.

  20. a reader Avatar
    a reader

    Maybe something which will help on the domestic tolerance issues: When Bush was hit with the demonstrably-false Michael Moore accusations, his reaction was no reaction. When Kerry was hit with the demonstrably-true Swift Boat Veterans accusations, his immediate reactions were to threaten TV stations which ran the ads, threaten book publishers which published the book, and yell to Bush to cut the ads.
    Evangelistic atheists are a threat too. Tolerance is the key.

  21. Robert Brown Avatar
    Robert Brown

    I think the probability of a nuclear weapon being detonated in an American city is much higher that the chance that Bush would impose his religious beliefs on the rest of the country in the next four years.
    The ACLU has been very effective in their attempts to scrub every reference to religion from the public square even under Bush. Worst case, maybe there would be some funding to faith based service agencies. Would that be a disaster?
    Granted, if unrestricted abortion or gay marriage is your number one priority, then you should vote for Kerry since he will appoint judges who will not overturn Roe and would be likely to strike down the state marriage laws that restrict marriage to one unrelated male and female.
    Keep an eye on Kerry’s economic policy. He has promised to reduce the deficit, give “tax cuts” to the “middle class”, and launch generous new spending programs, all paid for by raising taxes on those making over $200,000 back to 40%. I don’t think the books balance here…he is lying about something, better to find out about what before the election.
    Also beware of his hints of economic isolationism: “out sourcing” buzz word. Trade restrictions are not good for an economy in the long term and will tend to anger our allies more that not joining the ICC for instance.

  22. la Avatar

    I wouldn’t be tolerant if I went and bled for my country and I was unfairly smeared by the biggest chickenhawk ever to hold the office of President.
    The problem I have with the Republicans and abortion is that they are unfriendly to families. If those mothers had health insurance to take care of their children, access to decent schools, and a decent social safety net, I would support the Republicans more.
    I am not in favor of abortion, but I want to see the Republicans put their money where their mouth is. Get rid of the corporate welfare, tax breaks for the wealthy-what is good for General Motors is no longer good for America. I have no wish to redo Mark Twain’s “Gilded Age” in this country.
    By the way, anyone read “Huckleberry Finn” recently? Twain has some very relevant things to say about religious hucksterim.
    “Those who cannot remember the past are condemmed to repeat it.”

  23. Yehudit Avatar

    Jeff, I am just where you are on all of this, except that soon after 9-11 I was reassured by Bush’s foreign policy decisions and the reasons for them. Although he makes mistakes, his vision is so clear and Kerry’s so foul that there is no comparison.
    Yes, I said foul. Read the NYTimes profile of Kerry. Put that together with his performance in the debates and if you are any kind of Wilsonian your stomach will turn.
    Before, I settled for Bush because none of the Dems were bringing me a tenable foreign policy vision. I don’t mean brilliant, I just mean tenable. As in “in touch with reality.” The only grownup in the pack was Leiberman. So I never planned to vote for Kerry, and I was never convinced that he would be a hawk when the chips were down.
    But until the debates and the NYTimes article, I didn’t despise him. But he has lied his ass off in the debates, when he hasn’t just been loony. About Tora Bora, allies, conducting the war (ex. his magic wand which will double the number of Spec Ops and train the Iraqis faster), homeland security, etc. He wants to give Iran nuclear fuel. He thinks nuclear bunker busters are unfair to our enemies. Now I find out he wants to abandon Pakistan, as well as UK, Australia, and Poland. (You know any rival of Musharraf will feed terrorists and wave Paki nukes around in a way that makes the Iranians look like pacifists.) Kerry will appoint another envoy to the Middle East. And of course, he will hold summits.
    Then Kerry makes these sonorous declarations about building alliances. Of course the allies he courts are precisely the nations which lined their pockets with Saddam’s oil-for-food money. The allies we’ve got, who actually believe in our cause, he trashes.
    I don’t like Bush’s position on abortion. but I respect that he has convictions and is willing to say what they are. I agree with his convictions on nation-building and stopping terror, and we will have to politely disagree on other things.
    Kerry has no convictions. Not only that, he cannot even hold a consistent argument in his head; everything he says contradicts itself and his record. He has 20 plans but never elucidates them. He just makes shit up, and people can’t tell the difference because they aren’t policy wonks. This man must not get elected because he is pathalogically narcissistic, and a casual liar. And I am not the type of person to go around saying things like that.
    Edwards is the Breck Girl. ‘Nuff said.

  24. a.moose Avatar

    “And I am not the type of person to go around saying things like that.”
    Guffaw!

  25. Yehudit Avatar

    PS I know Kerry lied because I kept track of many people who were fact-checking his ass.

  26. Yehudit Avatar

    “Guffaw!.”
    I have to have repeated examples of horrible behavior laid at my feet over a long period of time, for me to despise someone this much. I have been building a slow burn over Kedwards for some time, but the NYTimes article and Kerry’s bald-faced lying at the debates just pushed me over the edge.

  27. AMM Avatar

    These comments are the perfect illustration of why Kerry would do better to ignore people who are silly enough to be undecided at this stage in the election and mobilize his base.
    If you honestly believe that Bush is stronger on “homeland security” — a fascistic phrase that eerily evokes the Bushies’ intentions — if you think that his unwarranted invasion of Iraq has made us safer, then vote for him. As for me, I think Bush is the greatest boon to Al Qaeda recruitment since the US set up shop in Saudi Arabia under Poppy; I think we’re in grave danger of being hit again as long as he’s in charge.
    (And for the record, we were “hit” again by terrorists, but we’ve all conveniently forgotten the anthrax incident since Ashcroft couldn’t find that guy either — probably one of his wingnut friends.)
    But honestly, you’re like a bad joke about an undecided voter needing attention. Look at all the people paying attention to you, trying to persuade you. You’ve got wingnuts and anti-war people and religious people and secular anti-abortion people and on and on and on. Maybe it makes you feel important. Whatever.
    Get over yourself. This isn’t a complicated decision. And spare us your indecision. It’s boring and embarassing.

  28. Leslie Turek Avatar
    Leslie Turek

    One of the reasons that Kerry believes it’s important not to piss off the rest of the world is that the only way we’ll be able to effectively fight the terrorists is with the rest of the world’s cooperation. We can’t possibly take over every country that the terrorists might operate in through military might. We need the cooperation of governments and intelligence services across the globe to track them down and shut them down wherever they move and hide. I urge you to read the article by Matt Bai over at the New York TImes today that explains Kerry’s approach in more detail. Here’s a quote:
    “By singling out three states in particular- Iraq, North Korea and Iran — as an ”axis of evil,” and by invading Iraq on the premise that it did (or at least might) sponsor terrorism, Bush cemented the idea that his war on terror is a war against those states that, in the president’s words, are not with us but against us. Many of Bush’s advisers spent their careers steeped in cold-war strategy, and their foreign policy is deeply rooted in the idea that states are the only consequential actors on the world stage, and that they can — and should — be forced to exercise control over the violent groups that take root within their borders.
    Kerry’s view, on the other hand, suggests that it is the very premise of civilized states, rather than any one ideology, that is under attack. And no one state, acting alone, can possibly have much impact on the threat, because terrorists will always be able to move around, shelter their money and connect in cyberspace; there are no capitals for a superpower like the United States to bomb, no ambassadors to recall, no economies to sanction. The U.S. military searches for bin Laden, the Russians hunt for the Chechen terrorist Shamil Basayev and the Israelis fire missiles at Hamas bomb makers; in Kerry’s world, these disparate terrorist elements make up a loosely affiliated network of diabolical villains, more connected to one another by tactics and ideology than they are to any one state sponsor. The conflict, in Kerry’s formulation, pits the forces of order versus the forces of chaos, and only a unified community of nations can ensure that order prevails.”

  29. Kat Avatar

    (For fellow Europeans wondering how – on earth – any American could contemplate voting for Bush} THAT in itself is all the reason in the world to vote Bush. These fellow Europeans were the ones who enabled the likes of Saddam. They gave him billions in illegal oil deals to pay terrorists in Israel and around the world. My question is that knowing how crooked Europe is–that Chirac et al were in Saddam’s back pocket–how could any American NOT vote for Bush? A vote for Kerry is a vote for Europe and terrorist supporters. Only fools make deals with the devil–islamofascists.

  30. Robert Brown Avatar
    Robert Brown

    Leslie Turek,
    I think it is quite na

  31. Yehudit Avatar

    One more reason to not vote for Kerry, if you are any kind of centrist or want the president to be effective: The Dem Left is poised to take over the Dem party whether or not Kerry wins.
    Face it, Jeff: Your party has been taken over. You may not be a Zell Democrat, but you have more in common with him than with these folks. Okay, so you’re not a Republican either. Neither am I. We are homeless right now. But we can still make choices based on our values.
    Does the Dem Left speak to your values more than the Republican Right or center? Look who has made that choice: Koch, Silver, Guiliani, McCain, Miller. Do you respect those people? Look who is supporting Kerry: Moore, McAuliffe. umpteen Hollywood stars. Do you respect those people?
    Who do you want to hang out with in the future?

  32. Yehudit Avatar

    Leslie, Kerry wants you to believe that we are alone and friendless because of Bush’s inhtransigence. Kerry lies. The truth is that we already cooperate with secret services and police all over the world to catch terrorists, yeah, verily, even the French. That is why Bush is not going to come out and say anything against the French and Germans in debates or speeaches – we do work well with them on the international law enforcement level.
    That whole article misrepresents what this admin is already doing, to make Kerry look like a wise savior. It’s nauseating.

  33. Uhrdit Avatar

    To all of you who so vigorously oppose stem-cell research or abortion because it “ends a potentially viable life” – are you, then, against this (and any) war? Wars kill people, real, living people – not just potential people. These people already have lives, hopes, and dreams. They have families who will be impacted by their deaths. There are thousands of people who have been killed in Iraq thanks to our bombs and bullets. Would all of you condemn this war, and these killings, as also immoral, unconscionable, and wrong?

  34. Ruth Avatar

    Thank you Uhrdit, I was getting around to that point myself. It’s appalling to see such a large segment of our society proclaiming itself pro-life but completely oblivious to the lives being thrown away needlessly in this farcical invasion of Iraq. And ignoring the lives that could be saved if stem cell research makes use of usually discarded stem cells which would not have ever been real births. Placental stem cells are produced in every live birth.
    By the way, on this morning’s in-depth news shows, I believe it was Face the Nation, Andrea (whose last name I forget, but she’s Mrs. Henry Kissinger) mentioned that the names of the Americans who were diverting Iraq’s oil-for-food/meds programs are beginning to come out now, and they’re not insignificant.
    Let’s face it, a lot of business interests tend to forget morality in the face of profits.
    It’s comforting to view the world as a place that’s easily divided between Good and Evil … and to believe that you know which is which. I really am afraid for this country for the next four years, if enough people are lulled into voting on this pretext. Calling it strength and purpose to send young people to die for causes ‘to be announced later’ is not a solution to any of our country’s problems.

  35. The Lonewacko Blog Avatar

    Bush isn’t running against Kerry. He’s running against a divided government with Kerry at the helm. As I pointed out in comments here, that divided government will keep any of Kerry’s “liberal” impulses in check. Plus, due to the various campaign smears and public opinion, he’s probably going to be more hawkish than not.
    So, tell us why divided government would be much worse than four more years of Bush?

  36. Ruth Avatar

    Postscript:
    Andrea Mitchell, sorry, I forgot her last name until a bit later.
    Bush doesn’t have a divided government, Lonewacko? Powell vs. Cheney vs. Ashcroft (no relation between Iraq and al Quaeda) vs. DeLay vs. David Chun (Pentagon) vs. Sec.Ag.(insitituting voluntary food processing oversight until mad cow breakout) vs. remember the Secy of EPA (Whitman?) who couldn’t take not being able to protect the environment etc. And Lott, who had to be declared persona non grata after his paean to racism, and Condoleesa Rice whose sister Connie Rice is active in social causes, and don’t forget all the gay bashers vs. Cheney’s family … but get armtwisted into putting on a solid front except for the occasional gaffes such as Bremer’s most recently.
    I prefer good honest dissonance. And: ‘I disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.’ Anyone come up with the source of that one? I think it might have been said in the Continental Congress in Philadelphia.

  37. Mark Avatar

    Jeff, come on. You’re a sensible person, I think, I hope. I’m 9/11 New Yorker like yourself, and I cannot forget that day or things that I saw with my own eyes. Perhaps you FEEL that Bush has made you safer, but how could you THINK that Bush has made you safer by invading Iraq?
    Regardless of whether we have a moral obligation to stay in Iraq and clean things up, we should recognize that right now, we have effectively created a terrorist breeding ground there now, thanks to George Bush. We may have al Qaida on the run, but have probably spurned the creation of many other terrorists organizations in the future. We’re playing into the hands of the extremists who now have more evidence that United States has declared war on Islam. I am not an apologist for terrorists, but let’s be pragmatic.
    There’s plenty of evidence that Iraq was not close to being an imminent threat to the United States when we invaded. Evidence that the Bush administration chose to ignore.
    The invasion of Iraq has been a negative in so many ways. It has cost billions of dollars, thousands of lives and counting. The longer we are there, the deeper we wound ourselves with the misuse of pride, patriotism, and fear to justify our place there, at the expense of freedom of thought.
    Bush is often commended for consistancy, but his inflexibility has led to the mess in Iraq. He’s unable to recognize mistakes and adjust for them. Perhaps you are comforted by the fact that he’s incompetant in a predictable way. I am not. Al Qaida and other terrorist groups that may emerge in the future are extra-national groups. The Bush view of the world, dividing it into right or wrong nation states, is a cold war anachronism with the respect to how terrorism threatens the United States. The administration has not demonstrated the flexibility to think past the nation-state model. Because the United States army can clobber the armies of most nations, state-sponsored terrorist is not the main terrorist threat to the United States.
    I’m willing to acknowledge that Kerry’s plans for Iraq now are unconvincing. I don’t know what he’s going to do to finish the job. Perhaps he doesn’t really know and is just parrying the issues because they are complex, dynamic, and not suited to pre-election sound bites. Kerry has not come out and said clearly that not invading Iraq, leaving Saddam in place, would have been the LESSER of TWO EVILS. Not desirable, but more desirable than an invasion of Iraq.
    But, there’s no evidence that Kerry would display the sort of foreign policy incompetance and foolish consistancy demonstrated by invasion of Iraq by former head cheerleader Bush.
    (See more of my views here.. http://www.wheresosama.org )

  38. carsonfire Avatar

    JJ: “I don’t pretend that you should care one iota where I stand.”
    Thanks for sharing, JJ! Seriously, you’re one of the few people I’ve seen online who supports Kerry who also thinks and reasons credibly. If there were more of you, it would be easier for Kerry to win over more of the electorate; unfortunately, too much of the Democratic party these days is being publicly represented by hyperbolic shreikers, from the DNC all the way down to the DU.

  39. Ruth Avatar

    Thank you Mark. ‘Consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds.’ Can you identify that quote.

  40. Laura M. Hagan Avatar
    Laura M. Hagan

    Jeff, I sympathize. But I think you’re missing the single largest distinction between your fears about Bush and your fears about Kerry, and that oversight on your part is the only reason you remain undecided.
    Your fears about Bush are (for the most part) about what he would DO that would be wrong. He would appoint right-wing judges; he would work to reverse Roe; he will, and has, worked to pass a Constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage. Stupid, divisive, wrongheaded moves all to pander to his Evangelical base.
    By contrast, you are afraid of what Kerry would NOT do. You fear he would NOT act against our enemies without the imprimatur of the French. That he would dither.
    I know this is simplistic, and your position is more complex than this — but it appears to me at least that the main distinctions you draw between the two men can be boiled down thusly.
    (bear with me, I’m getting to the point)
    For the most part, what you fear from Bush cannot be implemented by the President alone. But what you fear from Kerry CAN be.
    Do you see what I’m getting at? Everything you fear from a Bush II administration, I do too. But he won’t be able to do it — for the most part — without significant help from Congress. Right-wing judges? They would have to be confirmed. The Dems aren’t even in the majority and they’re managing to block the judges they want to block. The gay marriage amendment Bush wanted? DOA in Congress. I don’t expect that to change under Bush II. What Bush wants that I don’t like isn’t going to be completely under his control.
    By contrast, there is no power on Earth that can force a Kerry administration to bypass the UN when it’s necessary. There is no provision for Congress to sidestep the President and send troops. What you fear from a Kerry administration CAN be, and WILL be, implemented by the President alone. It will be solely up to John Kerry.
    That’s the difference. Although you and I believe many of the same things, and fear many of the same things, I am as far from an undecided voter as can be. What I fear from Kerry is worse than what I fear from Bush — and Kerry WILL do what I’m afraid of, whereas Bush MIGHT be able to accomplish SOME of it if he can talk a divided Congress into going along.
    Game over.

  41. The Sanity Inspector Avatar

    What I don’t understand about the Dems bash the rich mantra is: Don’t people realize that “the rich” in many cases are themselves, later in life?

  42. Richard Aubrey Avatar
    Richard Aubrey

    Interesting observations on Bush’s religion and the stem-cell issue–which JJ misrepresented as he’s been taught to do.
    To claim that a position is based on religion is a way to try invalidate it. If a person can be said to hold a position because of religious teachings, the doctrine of separation of church and state is hauled out to invalidate the argument because it cannot be managed substantively.
    The First Amendment, however, makes no mention of any restrictions on how we come to our conclusions.
    A voter or legislator can take his entire program from his religion and there is nothing anybody can do about it.
    The Noble First says Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion nor prohibiting the free exercise thereof.
    That’s it.
    So contorting yourself to “prove” that somebody is acting out of religious feeling is a waste of time, not to mention disingenuous.

  43. Yehudit Avatar

    To all those who point out those killed in Iraq: unless you also add in those no longer killed and tortured by Saddam, Uday, and Qusay, plus the removal of the climate of daily fear in his regime, you are not being honest. Unless Iraqi deaths only matter if they are killed by Americans.
    None of the assertions that we have created “breeding grounds for terrorists” have any evidence behind them, and given that they are asserted by the same people who ignore the Iraqis killed by saddam, I don’t see why I should find them credible.
    “The Bush view of the world, dividing it into right or wrong nation states, is a cold war anachronism with the respect to how terrorism threatens the United States. The administration has not demonstrated the flexibility to think past the nation-state model.”
    This is simply untrue. Bush has explicitly described the terrorist groups as extra-national, but they do need to be harbored by states to keep going. They ARE harbored by states, in an area of the world where we now have a large military presence. How about that?
    We do all the international cooperative police work anyone could want, along with the threats to nation-states. You need both. Kerry just wants to do the first, and tries to frame Bush as only doing the second. But that’s another one of his lies.

  44. Jassalasca Jape Avatar
    Jassalasca Jape

    I’m sorry, but I do think it would a good strategy to place someone at the center of the executive branch of government who does not believe in final solutions to complex problems. The contrary view is a dangerous idea with reliable promise to get more of us killed in the long run (and I’m not really fussy about what definition you want to use for “us” in that proposition).
    But then again, in the interest of balance half of us should probably undertake to vote for the other guy — so that he won’t be embarrassed on national TV.

  45. Robert Brown Avatar
    Robert Brown

    Mark,
    So, did invading Afghanastan “create a terrorist breeding ground”. I remember it was fashionable in leftist circles to proclaim that removal of the Taliban would inflame the “Arab Street”. Are the extremists using the photos of all those WOMEN voting to recruit more Islamic terrorists?
    Is seems to me that removing the Taliban should have angered Islamic fundamentalists more than removing the secular Sadaam who they hated. So did removing Sadaam really anger normal peaceful Muslims enough to cause them to blow themselves up killing a bunch of Iraqi children collecting candy from soldiers at the opening ceremony for a sewage treatment plant? Or, did removing Sadaam simply reveal an already existing cesspool of seething hatred?
    You clearly misunderstand Bush’s concept of the relationship between nation states and extra national terrorists groups. He divides the world into those nations that are actively fighting terrorists in their midst and those who actively support them or tolerate them for their own selfish interests. For example middle east dictators allow mullas in their countries to deflect internal hatred for their own corrupt governments to the Jews and the U.S. He believes that the long term solution to terrorism is to push for reform of those governments that breed or tolerate terrorists.
    Kerry has signalled (if not clearly stated) that he would prefer to have Sadaam in power than to be in the nation building project we are in now. I think he is more interested in spending resources on defense of the homeland and chasing existing terrorists (note his obsession over OBL) than trying to dry up the source by reforming the middle east.

  46. Andy Freeman Avatar
    Andy Freeman

    > So, just speaking hypothetically, if Bush announced a plan to force all Muslims in the U.S. to report to internment camps, Jeff shouldn’t object, since he’s not Muslim?
    Well, we can ask what Jeff did when his media cohorts were cheerleading a successful attempt to criminalize political speech by not-media.
    I’d like to think that he didn’t object, but it’s possible that he helped.