What’s what

What’s what

: Glenn Reynolds calls a story in Richard Mellon Scaife‘s Pittsburgh Tribune-Review “major media attention.” Well, I’d be more inclinded to call it major right-wing crackpot attention.

: UPDATE: Glenn responds to this here. I’m simply saying that a story in Scaife’s paper doesn’t qualify to me as major media attention, that’s all. I said what I meant.

Glenn, to his credit, says he doesn’t necessarily buy the story; he already said that. If I’d wanted to get into a discussion of the merits of this particular story, I would have made that clear. Perhaps I should have anyway. But, again, I wan’t trying to discuss the particulars of this story, only the characterization of a Scaife enterprise as major media.

Of course, Glenn uses it to flog his Cambodia angle. And that’s fine. He is proud of the world he has done on that story. I still consider in a nonstory (just as I considered Bush’s military record — with its hanging questions — a nonstory; I always repeat that for the record).

I’ll repeat for the record, too, that I think Glenn’s the greatest; I have the utmost respect for him. But from the beginning, I’ve disagreed with him about the importance and significance and value of the Swiftie and Cambodia stories (and I have some standing to be able to do that since I have also attacked Michael Moore’s attacks against the man I now assume is Glenn’s candidate and because I equally pooh-poohed the attacks on Bush’s military record). So we disagree. Friends disagree. Bloggers disagree. If we didn’t, this would be as dull as, oh, I dunno, a blogging panel?

So I send virtual air-kisses to Glenn and a big e-hug.

But I still say that Scaife is a fringe-dweller and conspiracy-addict and troublemaker who delights in trying to destroy politicians he hates. Citing his enterprises is like citing, well, Michael Moore’s or Al Franken’s.

75 responses to “What’s what”

  1. Robert McClelland Avatar

    Glenn reminds me of a little fat kid who wails, “why am I getting so fat?” while shoving eclairs down his throat.

  2. John Avatar

    I certainly wouldn’t call it “major media attention” at this juncture, but it is interesting to note that between the Clinton-Paul Jones squabble and this latest legal action that Judicial Watch is involved with, the lawsuit it filed here was treated with a lot more repect by the major media and Democrats, while Republicans blasted the group and GOP supporters vowed never to give Larry Klayman any more donations.
    I tend to think of Klayman as more of an opportunist than anything else, but he’s not reliably Republican, even if the Tribune-Review is. So I’d agree Glenn overhyped the story, but I wouldn’t dismiss the accusations outright without further outside investigation.

  3. Reid Avatar

    That’s the second or third time recently where I’ve seen Glenn appear to say, in effect, “I’m doubtful this is true about Kerry, but I’m happy to help spread it around.”

  4. Charlie (Colorado) Avatar
    Charlie (Colorado)

    Gee, Jeff, the Tribune-Review is a major-market newspaper with a paid circulation of about 210,000 — about the same as the Denver Post or Rocky Mountain News, for example. What constitutes “major media”?
    Other than “Jeff likes their editorial position”, I mean?
    Oh, by the way, Robert, it’s really sort of reassuring to see that there are a few things we can depend upon in this changing world. For example, you’re still a nincompoop.

  5. Charlie (Colorado) Avatar
    Charlie (Colorado)

    That’s the second or third time recently where I’ve seen Glenn appear to say, in effect, “I’m doubtful this is true about Kerry, but I’m happy to help spread it around.”
    So then Jeff is saying “I don’t think this constitutes ‘major media attention’ but I’m happy to spread it around”?

  6. Franky Avatar

    Good point Reid,
    Reynolds ought to be ashamed of joining such an unfounded smear. Both sides are going to really blow credibility holes in a lot of blogs when they start annonymously passing incorrect information that is then dispersed (imagine tomorrow it will be Bush’s supposed coke habit) – the story does the rounds, then is dismissed, but the slime has stuck. Remember last time was the supposed affair of Kerry’s with his intern that burned Drudge.

  7. Kat Avatar

    No, Franky, the days of being forcefed leftist pablum are over. We can now choose what we digest. And on what authority do you claim the story is false? You said Christmas in Cambodia was false at one time. I tend to think it’s true–Kerry is a pro-Communist. But I will wait and see before declaring it as true or false. I am wrong once in a blue moon–so are bloggers.

  8. paladin Avatar

    Hey, Jeff, just do what I do, when a blogger gets obsessed with something I am not obsessed about, or follows a party line I don’t agree with, I don’t complain about it, I just quit reading the damned blog. To whine that Glenn is not posting about what you think he should, is frankly, silly, and you know it.

  9. Franky Avatar

    “No, Franky, the days of being forcefed leftist pablum are over.”
    Unbelievable that you actually want misinformation fed to you, as long as no leftist is involved. So what about Kerry’s affair then? When the story is well-sourced then let’s discuss it, but this is the oldest trick in politics. A bit like certain smears against John McCain. Black child out of wedlock? Wife is a drug addict? He ratted out his friends to survive torture? He is now unbalanced after torture?
    I want frontpage story tomorrow in NYT of Bush’s cocaine problem and his abortion with a girlfirend when abortion was illegal – let’s worry about evidence later. I’ll do a Reynolds and say: “I don’t think this is true, but here it is”. Because you’re smearing now, doesn’t mean will it always be that way….and then let’s hear the howls commence. You republicans are really beyond belief. First there’s scatter comments from the fringe that Bush is Hitler and that is outrageous, disgraceful, smears, slurs, draggin politics in to the gutter. Then a bunch of liars come out and of course are accorded prime place in republican hearts, despite not one of them having a consistent story. Then when people complian from all sides, liberals to moderate conservatives, hacks like Mark Steyn quickly pen their columns saying that Kerry can’t handle the pressure and this is politics as normal.
    Screw it. I joked before about NYT cocaine and abrotion stories, but obviously you’re not learning, so I hope the demcorats do a swiftie story on Bush. And then maybe you’ll be more in a mood to drop the dirty campaigning.
    “You said Christmas in Cambodia was false at one time.” I don’t remember ever saying that. It’s possible I guess, but considering how unimportant I found that entire story and how lukewarm I am to Kerry, I find it hard to believe.
    “Kerry is a pro-Communist”
    Kat, sorry I just can’t keep debating something so self-evidently bizarre as that.

  10. old maltese Avatar
    old maltese

    Prof. Reynolds said some ‘major-media attention’, not ‘major media attention’ as you stated, Jeff.
    See the difference that the hyphen makes? Not major attention in the media but attention by [somebody] in the major media.
    I think that you inferred his meaning correctly, though.

  11. Kat Avatar

    Oh come now, Franky, they have called Bush a Nazi, a baby killer, poisoner of pregnant women,etc. etc.
    I simply said, I tend to think it may be true. You must know that in 1996 he received big bucks when Kerry met with Liu Chaohying, a Hong Kong businesswoman who wanted to have her company listed on the U.S. Stock Exchange. Kerry lobbied on her behalf by helping to organize a meeting between Liu Chaohying and a senior Securities and Exchange (SEC) official. In return, Kerry accepted a $10,000 contribution in the form of a Beverly Hills Fundraiser. It was laterestablished that Liu Chaohying was not simply a profit-motivated businesswoman, but rather a lieutenant colonel in the Communist China

  12. Robert McClelland Avatar

    Oh, by the way, Robert, it’s really sort of reassuring to see that there are a few things we can depend upon in this changing world. For example, you’re still a nincompoop.
    None the less, what I said is true. Glenn, like Jeff, has been howling about how the discussion should be getting back to the issues, yet here is once again passing on crap to his readers. Thus the analogy.

  13. David R. Block Avatar
    David R. Block

    Seems to me that the criticism of Glenn parrotting a party line is, in this case, the pot calling the kettle black. IMO, He’s been much more even-handed then our host.

  14. Harry Avatar

    Reynolds is far more even-handed. But I think Jeff (and many left-wingers) just haven’t recovered from the shocking realization that their side no longer has a stranglehold on print and television news. After decades in the comforting blanket of lefty media, it’s unsurprising that even the political center looks conservative to these folks.

  15. Hairy Avatar

    Robert: It’s transcendently clear that it’s only “crap” that’s being passed on to readers if you don’t agree with it.

  16. Terrye Avatar

    One of the reasons I am voting for Bush in spite of the fact that I am a Demcorat is the narrow minded judgmental attitudes of Democrats that think anything they can think of to say about the president is acceptable, but when it comes to their lousy candidate it is different. I am surprised you guys have not recommended gulags in Idaho for veterans that dare question the words and deeds of the great democrat candidate.
    If this story were about Bush it would be getting all kinds of attention along with the usual nazi baby killer liar line of crap. As far as crack pot is concerned maybe there are a few partisan bloggers and commentors that should be looking a little closer to home.

  17. Robert McClelland Avatar

    Reynolds is far more even-handed.
    Don’t be absurd. The clown never said a peep about the Bush AWOL stories. He’s nothing but a whore for Bush who continues to lie about being a whore for Bush.

  18. Robert McClelland Avatar

    Robert: It’s transcendently clear that it’s only “crap” that’s being passed on to readers if you don’t agree with it.
    It’s all crap you moron. The point however, is that Glenn has been whining about getting back to the issues but continues to flog the smears.

  19. Robert McClelland Avatar

    If this story were about Bush it would be getting all kinds of attention
    Right, because there has been so much media attention devoted to the skeletons in Bush’s closet like him doing cocaine or being arrested for drunk driving, or taking his girlfriend to have an abortion. The only thing the media gave attention to was the Bush being AWOL story.
    You live in a fantasy world in which a MoveOn.org contest entry that appeared only on their website for a day and was never aired by them on television equals the smear campaign aired on television by the Swiftboat liars.

  20. Kat Avatar

    Well, Robert, I’d rather be a whore for Bush, than a whore for Osama, as you are.

  21. Charlie (Colorado) Avatar
    Charlie (Colorado)

    Don’t be absurd. The clown [Reynolds] never said a peep about the Bush AWOL stories.
    Robert: Don’t say stupid things that are so easily refuted.
    Google is your friend.

  22. Charlie (Colorado) Avatar
    Charlie (Colorado)

    Right, because there has been so much media attention devoted to the skeletons in Bush’s closet like him doing cocaine or being arrested for drunk driving, or taking his girlfriend to have an abortion. The only thing the media gave attention to was the Bush being AWOL story.
    Robert: Don’t say stupid things that are so easily refuted.
    That’s a total of around 500,000 hits, Robert.
    Amazingly, “Robert McClelland moron” only gets about 335, but that rather proves my point, since everyone knows that too ….
    I take it back — Google is not your friend.

  23. shark Avatar

    Glenn Reynolds calls a story in Richard Mellon Scaife’s Pittsburgh Tribune-Review “major media attention.” Well, I’d be more inclinded to call it major right-wing crackpot attention.
    I breathlessly await the day that you so easily dismiss stories in the NYTimes as “left-wing crackpot attention”
    Or is it your new philosophy that stories that may reflect negatively on Kerry should just be dismissed as smears (SwiftVets) or “right-wing crackpots”? For someone who whines a lot about free speech, you certainly seem quick to try to limit the areas of discussion about your candidate. “Bring it on” has become “not in the face!”
    But keep telling yourself you’re in the middle, even as you descend deeper into liberal hackery.

  24. Charlie (Colorado) Avatar
    Charlie (Colorado)

    But I still say that Scaife is a fringe-dweller and conspiracy-addict and troublemaker who delights in trying to destroy politicians he hates. Citing his enterprises is like citing, well, Michael Moore’s or Al Franken’s.
    And I’m still having trouble figuring out how a major newspaper in a major market isn’t major media.
    I mean, unless you’re seriously suggesting that, say, the New York Times’ (now admitted) liberal bias isn’t important, but Scaife’s conservative bias is is enough to disqualify the paper from being major media.

  25. Charlie (Colorado) Avatar
    Charlie (Colorado)

    But I still say that Scaife is a fringe-dweller and conspiracy-addict and troublemaker who delights in trying to destroy politicians he hates. Citing his enterprises is like citing, well, Michael Moore’s or Al Franken’s.
    And I’m still having trouble figuring out how a major newspaper in a major market isn’t major media.
    I mean, unless you’re seriously suggesting that, say, the New York Times’ (now admitted) liberal bias isn’t important, but Scaife’s conservative bias is is enough to disqualify the paper from being major media.

  26. Charlie (Colorado) Avatar
    Charlie (Colorado)

    OKay, I know I only clicked “submit” once.

  27. Robert McClelland Avatar

    That’s a total of around 500,000 hits, Robert.
    But how many are from the mainstream media? Not many because the mainstream media won’t report this stuff.

  28. Robert McClelland Avatar

    I’d rather be a whore for Bush
    You’re a whore for Stormfront.

  29. Tom Avatar

    Question If we agree that Scaife is a whore for the right with his Pittsburg paper, does that also make Arthur Sulzberger Jr a whore for the left with the New York Times?
    I think that what is happenning is that there is a perspective issue. When you look at the Times coverage of Bush combined with the viciousness of their editorial page, it probably makes my blood run as cold as yours when you read the Pittsburg paper and the Washington Times.
    Tom

  30. Franky Avatar

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews/tm_objectid=14609301&method=full&siteid=50143&headline=bush–took-cocaine-at-camp-david–name_page.html
    GEORGE W Bush snorted cocaine at Camp David, a new book claims.
    His wife Laura also allegedly tried cannabis in her youth.
    Author Kitty Kelley says in her biography The Family: The Real Story of the Bush Dynasty, that the US President first used coke at university in the mid-1960s.
    She quotes his former sister-in-law Sharon Bush who claims: “Bush did coke at Camp David when his father was President, and not just once either.”
    Other acquaintances allege that as a 26-year-old National Guard, Bush “liked to sneak out back for a joint or into the bathroom for a line of cocaine”.
    looks like we got a swiftie saga up already…….I’m going to take same attitude as repubs did: it’s all true unless otherwise disproved, and then I’ll still remain convinced it is true

  31. Tom Maguire Avatar

    Glenn uses it to flog his Cambodia angle. And that’s fine. He is proud of the world he has done on that story. I still consider in a nonstory…
    With all the reporting about how the Swiftees have torpedoed Keery in the polls and are presented as the proximate cause of his recent staff changes, what is the sense in which you consider Cambodia to be a “non-story”?

  32. John Avatar

    Franky, we’ll see. If Sharon Bush is willing to name names, times, and bring forward others who will confirm her accounts as alleged by Ms. Kelley, then the story will deserve further investigation. I already know the story has legs, because Kelley could write that GWB is being controlled by space aliens and the New York Times would run with it, in the same way they allowed Maureen Dowd to run a Page 1 story about Nancy Reagan sleeping with Frank Sinatra in the White House while Ronnie was president.
    The Times had no outsider confirmation on that one, but felt it was fitter to print than the Christmas-In-Cambodia kerfuffle with Kerry, and Maureen’s scoop even ran in a non-election year. So you know for something like this, they might even used colored ink and an eight-column headline across the front page without vetting any of Kitty’s sources on their own.

  33. Kathy Avatar

    Even Doug Brinkley, Kerry’s hagiographer, has said that Cambodia didn’t happen. His campaign has also backed off the story of “Christmas in Cambodia”.
    If Kerry would lift his embargo of talking to the press (36 days and counting), maybe he could answer the questions instead of having his minions.
    Even the crewmates that are supporting him are saying that Cambodia DID NOT HAPPEN.

  34. Charlie (Colorado) Avatar
    Charlie (Colorado)

    But how many are from the mainstream media? Not many because the mainstream media won’t report this stuff.
    Two of the first five are the Mirror in the UK and the here.
    I suppose you could try Jeff’s argument and claim that they’re not really “main stream”.
    There’s still 335 hits for “Robert McClelland moron”.
    Gee, Robert, you’re famous.

  35. Charlie (Colorado) Avatar
    Charlie (Colorado)

    That should be “The New York Daily News here”, and Jeff, I think you’ve got a bug in the comments stuff.

  36. Insufficiently Sensitive Avatar
    Insufficiently Sensitive

    Amusing to see that the effectiveness of the Swifties in exposing Kerry’s mendacities have driven the MSM to broadcasting some furious new attacks on Bush’s history.
    The difference is, the Swifties have aimed their spotlights at behavior of Kerry’s which exposes serious character flaws, such as his cashing in politically on his public slander of all Vietnam vets as atrocity-committers, and his Senatorial use of the Christmas in Cambodia fiction. Whereas the attacks on Bush are aimed against alleged youthful excess – which in no way did Bush attempt to cash in on, and which are not the basis for his present campaign for office.
    Jeff might also enlighten us with his opinion on the intense and continued media coverage last spring of Bush’s National Guard attendance, versus the virtual suppression of media investigation on the Swifties explicit questions of Kerry’s record. And no, just shouting that the Swifties’ charges ‘have been proven wrong’ isn’t a valid rebuttal. Let’s hear Jeff call insistently for Kerry to sign his Form 180 and release ALL those 100 pages of his concealed record, and we’ll add up the score after we’ve read them.

  37. Kathy Avatar

    Here’s some more refutation on Kerry’s fables. Captain’s Quarters
    Did the print press try to discredit the Swiftvets? Only after ignoring them for weeks failed to stop the story from breaking to the surface.
    But let’s take another piece of McKean’s statement to Healy, the notion that the Swiftvets “lie so egregiously”. He then accuses them of McCarthyism, but who exactly is guilty of that charge? So far, the Kerry campaign has been forced to back down from at least three components of its Viet Nam narrative:
    * Kerry’s 25-year-old Cambodian Christmas fable, which has morphed and split into multiple near-Cambodian experiences with Special Forces/CIA entanglements
    * Kerry’s stealing of Tedd Peck’s engagement on 29 January 1969, which he included in his website timeline
    * Kerry’s and David Alston’s stories about Alston serving with Kerry on the 29 January and 28 February engagements, which Captain’s Quarters determined was impossible — and Alston no longer makes appearances with Kerry in telling those stories
    Also, as a result of the scrutiny applied to Kerry’s narrative, the following medals that Kerry thrust to the forefront of his campaign are now under question:
    * His explanation for his first Purple Heart for the “action” of 2 December conflicts with his own journals, which states on 11 Dec that he had not yet been shot at — and the application for that award was processed long after the event and through a different chain of command than that under which Kerry served on 2 Dec.
    * The Navy has launched an investigation of how Kerry had three separate commendations for one Silver Star, including one signed and supposedly written by John Lehman in the 1980s, while Lehman insists he never saw, wrote, or signed it. The Navy is also investigating how Kerry claimed a combat “V” for the Silver Star, a device that does not apply to that award.
    The only factual refutations that have occurred so far apply to John Kerry’s narrative, not that of the 250-plus Swiftvets with whom he served. So who’s lied to the electorate so far? It doesn’t appear to be the Swiftvets, which makes the only “egregious” liar in this campaign John Kerry.

  38. Franky Avatar

    I tell you what, let’s pick a word each. You choose “Cambodia” and I’ll take “Cocaine”.
    I can’t believe a coke-sniffing alcoholic managed to get to the White House. Didn’t anyone tell Bush about the heroin in Asia? Would’ve signed those volunteer papers a little quicker I imagine.

  39. Kathy Avatar

    Would that be Cocaine for Clinton?

  40. Insufficiently Sensitive Avatar
    Insufficiently Sensitive

    Alleged cocaine use thirty years ago is about as pertinent to this campaign as your grade in 4th grade social studies.
    Bush’s record as Governor of Texas and now President are a CV that effectively supersedes whatever’s gone before. Whereas Kerry’s twenty-year Senate record is a void with negative tinges, and does not cancel his recent cashing in on his old fibs.

  41. Franky Avatar

    hahahahaahah look at the squirming. With that sort of contortion, I see olympic gymnast material.
    So one’s man past is fair game, and another is not? What about Bush’s family pledges (abortion) his anti-drug funds to South America (snorting Bolivian marching powder in Camp David no less). He made it an issue, so it’s fair game.

  42. Kat Avatar

    I’m not sure which is worse–using or trafficking. How do you know Kerry never used the drugs he allegedly trafficked? I always thought Jane and John had to have been high on something to commit treason against America.

  43. Terrye Avatar

    Robert, there are 33,000 National Guardsman in Iraq right now. I suggest that Kerry team show us just how bright they really are and do a “the Guard is for pussies” bumper stickers and see how that sells in the heartland.
    What the hell, they are on a roll right now. And talkiing about Bush’s cocaine habit or whatever will only make them look like the desperate dumbasses we know they are.

  44. John Avatar

    Again, Franky, Sharon Bush and Kitty Kelley can make the claims. Sharon offers up the date of the alleged offense and who was with Bush, and then the reporters can go to the official White House logs on who was at Camp David at the time and check and see if the date checks out for GWB. That’s Step 1. Step 2 is to see who else is listed on the logs as being there and try to interview them. Others who ca be checked are any retired Secret Service officers or military officials who were at Camp David at the time. Step 3.
    Those, and a few more steps no doubt will be combed over during the next few weeks to see if there’s anyone else out there who’ll confirm the reports, or if its based on the claims of one woman who may be as mad at Neil and the rest of the Bush family over that messy divorce as the Swift Boat Vets are at Kerry over his statements to the Senate after returning home.
    Will the story get big-media play without any outside confirmation? Of course — at least in this case there’s an (ex-) family member involved, which is more than you can say for Ms. Dowd’s Page 1er in the NYT on Franky doing the dirty-nasty with Nancy R at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. But there’s also no question Sharon has an axe to grind with the family, based on the divorce filing in Houston last year, so any media outlet that balked at running the swift boat vets’ claims but takes this one and runs with the book excerpts alone will have a hard time saying they only publish stories that meet a certain threshhold of credibility.

  45. Franky Avatar

    Sharon has a axe to grind because her husband (Bush’s brother, let’s remember) came back with an STD from his interactions with Thai hookers. Good God, imagine if that had happened to that loser Roger Clinton…..and how much coverage did that get? not as much as I would think.

  46. Franky Avatar

    Funny how Instahack has yet to mention the Kitty Kelly book. You’d almost think he was trying to ignore it, or hadn’t heard yet how to spin it.
    Heh

  47. John Avatar

    I don’t know — I’m down in Texas and the AP ran a story about the mess every day or two on the state wire while the main part of the legal battle was going on, and I know The New York Post’s gossip pages lapped up the dirty details. So the story was available to the national media through AP-Texas and I’m sure the Hearst-owned Houston Chronicle; how they used it or where they placed it in their papers or on their newcasts I can’t offer full details.

  48. Franky Avatar

    President’s brother with thai hookers. Jesus I mean that’s satire-like huge.
    Maybe media outlets saw it as more a local story (I can’t imagine why – but so be it), and it got a lot of coverage down there in Texas. But then maybe I missed it…

  49. tony Avatar

    hey Charlie (Colorado),
    have you looked at the links regarding the times that Glenn has mentioned “Bush Awol”?
    Although yes, he has mentioned those two words together, Robert McClelland is right, the good professor doesnt really write about the messy issue.
    He will link to other people defending the president, but the blogfather himself has declined to muddy himself with offering up his opinion.
    Meanwhile, when it looked like the Swift Boaters weren’t getting major major-media attention, he nearly blew a gasket.
    I wont say that Glenn hasnt said a “peep” about the AWOL/Deserter accusations and lack of military records to clear Bush, but he has done his very best not to have a peep of his own opinion on the record.
    But that’s pretty much SOP for the #1 blogger… try to find out the last time he came straight out and said that he’s a republican…
    even though all he has done in the last year is try to get everyone who comes to his site to believe that this administration is flawless and the dems are flip flopping lying frenchkissers.

  50. Charlie (Colorado) Avatar
    Charlie (Colorado)

    And Tony, your point would be that you think Glenn isn’t anti-Bush enough?
    I’m shocked. Shocked.
    But if you look at what Robert said, he claimed “Don’t be absurd. The clown [Reynolds] never said a peep about the Bush AWOL stories.”
    Google says different.
    QED.
    If I were arguing that Glenn isn’t really pro-Bush, you might have a point. Since I’m arguing instead, with citations, that Robert McClelland is too dumb to know that he can be fact checked in seconds when he makes claims like that, howver, that one isn’t very germane, is it?
    What’s even better is that Robert then makes another several stupidly ill-considered assertions, each of which is easily fact-checked and disproven too, it makes a good case that he’s not just a moron, but that he’s not even particularly trainable.
    (But then from previous experience I’ve learned that you can almost always spot Robert in a misstatement or ill-considered foolish statement, by simply looking at anything he asserts as fact.)
    Not noticing what Robert said or what I’d argued doesn’t actually speak all that well of your mental acuity either.
    Interesting point: Robert+McClelland+nincompoop only hits 11 times.
    Ooh, but change it to jackass and you get 168.
    Computer Science is wonderful.

  51. shark Avatar

    Funny how Instahack has yet to mention the Kitty Kelly book. You’d almost think he was trying to ignore it, or hadn’t heard yet how to spin it. Heh
    Look again moron. Heh.
    In terms of being able to fend off, I’ll take the Kelly book over the swifites any time. What’s she revealing? Bush was a druggie/alkie? Woopee, we already all knew that. PLUS, Larry Flynt gave her a million to write it.
    This book will be a non-starter no matter how hard the leftwing hacks in the media and Soros-funded blogs try to spin it.
    So while Bush talks issues, the left spends time giving us “Bush is an alcoholic! Bush is an alcholic! Halliburton! AWOL!”
    Bush landslide if they keep it up.
    And Franky, if Kerry REALLY wants to sling mud, think of how much mileage the Bush side can get if they wanted to push the negotiating in Paris w/ VC while still in naval reserves story. They have that all ready and in their pockets. People who would know have already said as much.
    So I hope the Dems want to sling dirt. Between the ongoing investigation by the Pentagon of Kerry’s false awards, and this, maybe we really can get him tried for treason.

  52. tony Avatar

    my point is Glenn isnt *fair*. Not even close. He, as Robert, I believe, was trying to say, doesn’t even try to debate the issues.
    To keep with your Bush AWOL google search, Instapundit doesnt say “here are some links arguing that Bush’s records say that he wasn’t AWOl, and heres some links that say his records are incomplete”. Every Single Link is pro-bush/awol-story-is-rubbish-and-dying-away.
    personally i dont mind if you’re going to have a completely slanted blog, but dont be coy about it. dont try to pretend that you’re anything more than an rnc infomercial. hell, even drudge links both sides.
    when your blog is less tolerant to opposing viewpoints than drudge then why should your blog as a whole deserve any credibility whatsoever?

  53. Franky Avatar

    Shark,
    “Bush was a druggie/alkie? Woopee, we already all knew that” you knew that and still support him? Why, Shark, what about character? hahahahahaha twist yourselves around like a seasnake all you want, this is coming down like a ton of bricks and you know it. If this story gets traction, i.e. gets others to come out who are not in the book, Bush is screewed. I can’t wait to see how Falwell and Reed and those pukes will react to the revelations their little golden boy “murdered” an unborn child. Well they’ll brush it off I’m sure, as Republicans have brushed off every other core principal they once stood for.
    Oh, like the Republicans have more? they invented the last thing. I guess if you have the imagination and the shills, there’s no limit to the invented mud.
    Abortions, drug addiction, draft-dodging, taking drugs at camp david….makes Clinton seem sort of reputable.
    Bush talks issues? What exact issues would he talk about? Economy? the war? “Give me another chance to screw it up – next we’ll invade Iran!”
    I’m interested in seeing all those who supported that crap of the swifties getting punished with these revelations, so hopefully they’ll be a little more house-trained next time they come to politics. I would much rather that we talk on all those issues of Bush’s: judge him on his abject failure over the past four years. But can’t resist the schadenfreud of what’s coming.
    Get the popcorn

  54. Kat Avatar

    This is sleeze, Franky, and it won’t sell. I am not a Clinton fan, but when Linda Tripp, Gennifer, Paula, etc. began the smear campaign, I became a supporter of his family.
    I began to wonder how such a smart man could pick such cheap women. I had more sympathy for Willie than the dingbat with the blue sperm stained dress. That kind of shit belongs in the Enquirer. Sharon Bush will be the loser in all this. So Bush got drunk–well, so did I. Big deal. Some of my friends did drugs and I didn’t. What bloody difference does it make now? I don’t care if Kerry smoked pot, or drank booze. I do care if committed treason against the country he wants to lead.

  55. shark Avatar

    Shark,
    “Bush was a druggie/alkie? Woopee, we already all knew that” you knew that and still support him? Why, Shark, what about character? hahahahahaha twist yourselves around like a seasnake all you want, this is coming down like a ton of bricks and you know it. If this story gets traction, i.e. gets others to come out who are not in the book, Bush is screewed. I can’t wait to see how Falwell and Reed and those pukes will react to the revelations their little golden boy “murdered” an unborn child. Well they’ll brush it off I’m sure, as Republicans have brushed off every other core principal they once stood for.

    *YAWN* It bespeaks very well for his character that he managed to get his sh*t together after being in the grip of substance abuse. Many of us know someone living that recovery out, and we know what it takes to get up and stay on the straight and narrow. As for the abortion thing, double *YAWN*. I’m sure if they could make up a story about Bush molesting cub scouts, they would.
    Oh, like the Republicans have more? they invented the last thing.
    Now I was SURE that Kerry admitted that he wasn’t in Cambodia. It was HIM who did the inventing. You shouldn’t argue with adults who have reading skills and can tell you these sorts of things.
    I’m interested in seeing all those who supported that crap of the swifties getting punished with these revelations, so hopefully they’ll be a little more house-trained next time they come to politics. I would much rather that we talk on all those issues of Bush’s: judge him on his abject failure over the past four years. But can’t resist the schadenfreud of what’s coming.
    While you enjoy that, the rest of the non-deluded world will enjoy a whopping case of Schadenfreud at your expense when the nets declare Bush the winner through clenched teeth.
    Get the popcorn ready

  56. Ptolemy Avatar

    Franky, your sounding a bit vexed over Bush’s jump in the polls recently. We all know he did drugs because the Dems sprung that on us just before the 2000 election. I’ve done drugs and had a great time. I’m not going to judge him on it unless he got involved with organized crime.
    This is just the latest in 100 books attacking Bush. This should have come in the spring. It just won’t have the impact you want. Bush’s drugs hurt Bush not fellow soldiers fighting a thankless war in Asia.
    Reynolds is partisan over this war but he brings up issues of conflict with Bush you just won’t see in liberal blogs about Kerry.
    I apologize in advance for the extreme contortions you will no doubt see in this post.

  57. Kat Avatar

    Tony–it is Glen’s blogg. Who the hell is holding a gun to your head forcing you to read? If you don’t like it, don’t read. That’s what I do with that Mathew Yiggly Kos guy.,or Democratic underground–once or twice was enough.

  58. tony Avatar

    well Kat, unlike you, i give people more than one or two chances before I judge them and then write them off.
    I like Glenn’s blog and I read it despite the problems I have with it.
    And if you follow the comments, I was speaking directly to the debate of whether or not Glenn was “even-handed”, which I dare say I would not be able to have a credible opinion on if I didn’t read it every day.
    Like most things, no gun is needed.

  59. h0mi Avatar

    Don’t be absurd. The clown never said a peep about the Bush AWOL stories. He’s nothing but a whore for Bush who continues to lie about being a whore for Bush.

    http://instapundit.com/archives/009400.php
    May 08, 2003
    BILL HOBBS HAS A LONG POST ON THE “Bush was AWOL” story, and says it’s bunk.

  60. wallace winfrey Avatar
    wallace winfrey

    the unfortunate thing about glenn reynolds is that he goes to great lengths to imply that he is fair and balanced on the issues, through his embrace of such no-duh topics like being anti-war-on-drugs, pro-choice, and accepting of gay marriage while at the same time essentially pushing any vicious smear that comes his way and suits his purposes.
    glenn has alot of emotional and professional (as a blogger anyway) investment in the war on iraq. anything that threatens that investment, whether it’s the kerry candidacy or a story critical of the war on page 24A of the NYT is met by him with an utter ruthlessness in his need to destroy it.
    my personal problem with glenn is that he’s an arrogant prick who’s constantly bragging about some shiny expensive new toy he just bought, or pointing out mean-spirited things such as the “camera doesn’t love john kerry” while ignoring the camera’s own considerable dislike for glenn reynolds.
    i think, in the end, that glenn is probably a wee bit insecure about the fact that he’ll always be better known for being the “blogging law professor” rather than the “distinguished, respected and oft-quoted law professor”.
    he pretty much blew any remaining semblance of credibility he retained with the big push he gave to the swift liars. i have no doubt his traffic will remain high, but he’s gotta know he’s fucked when people consider drudge to be more even-handed. his own credibility issue is why he’s constantly going on and on and on about the decline of “old media” and the ascendancy of the “blogosphere”.

  61. Charlie (Colorado) Avatar
    Charlie (Colorado)

    my point is Glenn isnt *fair*. Not even close. He, as Robert, I believe, was trying to say, doesn’t even try to debate the issues.
    Oh my goodness, Glenn has an opinion. What’s worse, he selects stories that interest him. And on his own web site, he doesn’t choose to pursue debates.
    I find myself momentarily nonplussed by my inability to sufficiently express my derision.

  62. Charlie (Colorado) Avatar
    Charlie (Colorado)

    I’m sure if they could make up a story about Bush molesting cub scouts, they would.
    No, actually that’s the story they’re telling about George H. W. Bush.

  63. Charlie (Colorado) Avatar
    Charlie (Colorado)

    And if you follow the comments, I was speaking directly to the debate of whether or not Glenn was “even-handed”, which I dare say I would not be able to have a credible opinion on if I didn’t read it every day.
    The problem is that when, for example, Robert makes a statement about his lack of even-handedness, it turns out to be demonstrably false. This does not a convincing argument make.

  64. freddie poo Avatar
    freddie poo

    Planting a story and then a disclaimer saying you don’t necessarily buy it is the same thing as saying: Read this and remember it…If you don’t “buy” it, then don’t post it. Why the need to be so syncophantic toward Glenn? He is off the wall in much of what he posts, considering his background, stuff that no lawyer would seriously consider sound or worthy.

  65. "Fair and Balanced" Dave Avatar
    “Fair and Balanced” Dave

    Gee, Jeff, the Tribune-Review is a major-market newspaper with a paid circulation of about 210,000 — about the same as the Denver Post or Rocky Mountain News, for example. What constitutes “major media”?
    First of all, Scaife’s paper is not published in Pittsburgh, it’s the Pittsburgh edition of the Greensburg, PA Tribune-Review (Greensburg is a small town about 30 miles east of Pittsburgh–it’s also, coincidently, Richard Mellon Scaife’s home town). The only real daily newspaper in Pittsburgh is the Post-Gazette which has a much wider circulation than Scaife’s rag.
    Secondly, the Tribune-Review, like Rev Sun Myung Moon’s Washington Times, is a money-loser. The paper has been losing money from the outset and exists only to disseminate Scaife’s right-wing ideology.
    Thirdly, comparing Scaife to Franken or Moore is an insult to Franken and Moore. When Al Franken or Michael Moore starts spreading stories implying George W. Bush was involved in drug smuggling and murder–as Scaife did by pushing Mena, AK and Vince Foster murder conspiracy theories–or if Moore or Franken sinks millions of dollars into a private smear campaign against George W. Bush–as Scaife did by funding the “Arkansas Project” against the Clintons–then maybe you’ll have a point.

  66. Ptolemy Avatar

    Glenn supports causes some of you despise and he is very popular and often mentioned. That is basic point. All your other crap is just fluff to validate your anger about it. He is one voice and like many “conservative” sources has done well in the free market of ideas. Jealous?
    There are plenty of very left-wing sites to read but they just don’t get the traffic. Glenn isn’t stopping anyone from reading any other blog. The Left has so many biased resoures and still you bitch. You have the media assets you need its just fewer Americans are buying it.

  67. Ptolemy Avatar

    After F-911, how does anyone complain of being maligned these days? I voted for Clinton both times and hated the crap the Right said about him but the Clintons did have issues. Bush may as well but I still trust him more than I ever trusted Clinton. “Fair and Balanced Dave” – so bitter…I mean clever.

  68. Franky Avatar

    Ptolemy,
    Long time no see. Admittedly not ecstatic about latest polls, but am hopeful that we can get the lead back in coming weeks. But at least my faith in democracy has been strengthened by seeing a group of liars who can’t make up their mind if John Kerry is a “good man” or a fabulist have an effect on Kerry’s polls. I can’t believe either side of this election that sheep are squeaking “cambodia” on one side and the other side are shouting “cocaine”, with the exception of pukes like Rove and Carville. But neither side is going to seriously reconsider slime as a tactic until they’ve been slimed, so on we go with abortions, cocaine and draft-dodging.

  69. Franky Avatar

    sorry, word missing from final sentence:
    I can’t believe either side of this election are happy that sheep are squeaking “cambodia” on one side and the other side are shouting “cocaine”, with the exception of pukes like Rove and Carville. But neither side is going to seriously reconsider slime as a tactic until they’ve been slimed, so on we go with abortions, cocaine and draft-dodging.

  70. John Avatar

    Anytime someone starts citing Michael Moore as a paragon of mainstream thinking on any issue, it’s game,set, match for the other side (which I base on having gotten a first-hand chance to watch Michael Moore explain under oath in a federal court just exactly how he views “the truth” while he’s making celluloid sausage. Like real sausage-making, it wasn’t pretty).

  71. shark Avatar

    I can’t believe either side of this election are happy that sheep are squeaking “cambodia” on one side and the other side are shouting “cocaine
    Lets see….I side points out a lie that was central to Kerry’s carefully airbrushed biography, a lie whipped out and used by Kerry to influence senate debate and policy, a lie he just owned up to when confronted. A lie that puts the sham to whole segments of his political (and military) career vs. the left yelling about cocaine, something we knew about and which has ceased to be an issue since it was already vetted in the last election.
    Or in other words, lying is a more serious character flaw than addiction.
    Keep yelling about it though Franky. Come the day after the election, you’ll be the one who’ll need to take a snort…

  72. Kathy Avatar

    Franky: I don’t care whether Kerry is a Democrat, Republican, Green Party candidate. What I care about are the lies that Kerry told when he came back from Vietnam. And, continues to tell 35 years later. I care about his Congressional Testimony that he has not retracted. And, no, “youthful indiscretion” just doesn’t cut it — He was 27 years old!
    His whole life has just been one big fantasy from having bicycled through the Berlin Wall at 12, when the wall wasn’t built until 1961, making Kerry 18 or 19 when the Wall was built. Kerry born in 1943) Quite a tale, to be able to see something that wasn’t there, ride your bike through, and even write about it in your journal — that only Douglas Brinkley has been able to see.
    Kerry should be writing fantasy fiction — and not be anywhere near our foreign policy. His own campaign can’t keep his lies straight — confusing Kerry with Kerrey’s record and positions held.
    The eight years of Clinton/Albright/Berger got us 9/11 and now Kerry is using the same advisors.
    Where I am from, Kerry wouldn’t even dare run for dogcatcher.

  73. Franky Avatar

    So you got Cambodia. Let’s hunt Schwanegger for his imagined remembrances of Russian tanks, his imagined debate between Nixon and Humphries.
    Let’s look at a bunch of guys who made the most outlandish statements about self-inflicted wounds, but yet were calling Kerry a good man even a couple of years ago, claiming to treat him for wounds where there’s no signature.
    Bush and his team opened this can of slime, and managed quite effectively to seem like they weren’t part of it. Now, I want them as slimed as possible so possibly we can hope for a more adult election next time – I hate people who use military analogies, but the only way to avoid this type of campaigning is a sense of mutually assured destruction. This election has gone, forget it – there will be no positive debate this time around.
    I would be happy to have kept this election on the issues, because on every single issue Bush has been the absolute abject failure anyone could have predicted looking at his mediocrity. Social issues? Do you have any idea what awaits the US economy in the years to come with Bush’s tax cuts and spending and the massive hike in government debt? The war in Iraq? yeah our casualty rate appears to be growing, so that’s a good sign for the second largest oil provider in the world (that will be a great kick for our economies when civil conflict adds a further $x on a barrel).
    Bush has nothing to run on, and that’s why he makes no reference to specific accomplishments because he has none (we liberated Afghanistan, then abandoned it for Iraq and now we’re up to our necks there in a mess).
    Of course, with such a lack of a record, it’s not surprising to see him run a campaign of sliming his opponent. After all, what else is there?

  74. kathy Avatar

    Franky, you’re wrong about Arnie’s supposed lie.
    He’s correct, the “too quick to find a lie” group is wrong.
    If that’s all you can find, get a new playbook. Or, would you rather discuss JFK riding his bike through the Berlin Wall when he was 12. Too bad, it wasn’t built until JFK was 18-19.
    Oh, well, minor fact. Just in case, you need to know the date. The Berlin Wall was built in 1961 and Kerry was born in 1943.

  75. Ptolemy Avatar

    The head of the DNC called the President AWOL without a touch of inference. Just said it out straight to a national audience and felt comfortable doing so. He called the President a traitor. There is nothing else to complain about considering tone and language of the campaign. Everyone who could live with such treachery can deal with whatever comes their way for the next two months. Its done. This is the campaign.