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Memories…

34 comments on Memories…

Memories…

: Ken Layne says the Bush campaign is just making dumb campaign moves reminding voters of both the fact that their guy ducked Vietnam while their opponent fought there and that their party has a history of a few, uh, less-than-stellar campaign techniques.

Doesn’t anybody remember the backlash of the BlowJob Impeachment, or what happened to another incumbent Republican president with “overzealous” campaign advisors? As I’ve said about a dozen times on this site, when you work for the Bush / Cheney ticket, the last thing you want to do is remind people every day that John Kerry fought in Vietnam.

34 responses to “Memories…”

  1. Dann Avatar
    Dann

    Jeff-
    The only problem is that I don’t hear the Bush/Cheney campaign challenging John Kerry’s service.
    I do hear Mr. Bush saying that such attacks are unwarranted and that ALL 527 activities should be stopped.
    And of course there is Mr. Kerry’s quite recent conversion to criticizing the MoveOn attacks on Mr. Bush’s service.
    I disagree with demanding that 527 organizations suspend their advertising. First Amendment….free speech…that sort of thing.
    But I also disagreed with passing McCain-Feingold.

  2. Matthew Cromer Avatar
    Matthew Cromer

    The last thing I would think you would link to is a nutter whose post you cite rants about “fake terror alerts” targetting skyscrapers in NYC. I thought once upon a time you took terrorism seriously.
    You’ve obviously gone off the deep end — the swift vets are after revenge against Kerry. This is a battle he set himself up for in 1972 when he decided to call them baby-killers and smeared an entire generation of vets. This is not about Bush. The Vietnam vets don’t want to see the guy who disgraced all of their reputations with the most vile of smears, and who never apologized, elected as commander in chief. And who can blame them?

  3. carsonfire Avatar
    carsonfire

    Is this a strategy issue or a free speech issue? Clinton defended himself, even attacked his foes, but he never tried to publicly shut down people like Kerry has done by dragging the vets to the FEC, while so blatantly coordinating with his own massive 527s.
    I truly think that the way Kerry handled himself in the face of this campaign crisis (badly, undemocratically, passing the buck, as opposed to Clinton slickness, deception and strategery) is going to ultimately be more remembered than the minutia of the Vietnam charges.

  4. Mike Avatar
    Mike

    Really? Is that what’s happening? Not according to the latest poll data. I think the swift boat campaign is effectively putting an end to Kerry’s idea that since he fought in vietnam that he should be president strategy.

  5. shell Avatar
    shell

    Right. Because if the Swiftvets weren’t in the news, I’d never remember that Kerry served in Vietnam.

  6. Brett Avatar
    Brett

    I’m with Mike. The poll numbers don’t back up Layne’s assertion. And among Vets, he’s down 18%. How can Layne (or you, Jeff) maintain that assertion when the facts are otherwise?

  7. Mike G Avatar
    Mike G

    Two ways for Kerry to win. If Bush beats himself, Kerry wins by default. Lowest negatives wins. What it says aout someone who tries to win by being the last cipher standing, you decide.
    The other is for Kerry to proactively show that he has a better plan for X, Y and Z. He’s shown no inclination to argue such a case. But as long as the race remains about Vietnam, he can’t make such a case.
    So the Bushies talking about Vietnam removes oxygen that Kerry could (even if he probably wouldn’t) use to make a case for himself. Layne’s contention only makes sense if you believe people will vote for the veteran against the guy who didn’t serve. Please cite ANY evidence from any recent election for this ahistorical notion.
    As long as the race is about Nam, it isn’t about Iraq, the tax cuts or anything else, and Bush wins.

  8. Mikey Avatar
    Mikey

    The cure for free speech is more free speech. If you don’t like what they say about you then get out there and refute them.
    BTW, I don’t think there has been a “clean” presidential election in the US since George Washington stepped down.
    Isn’t going to happen. Ever.

  9. h0mi Avatar
    h0mi

    So let me get this straight.
    Layne thinks there’s the potential for a backlash against Bush over this swift vet “nonsense”, but does not believe that similar backlash exists over F911, “AWOL/Deserter” and Bush’s TANG service?
    That doesn’t pass the giggle test.
    With this logic, F911 helped Bush by reminding people he was president during 9/11, when he “seemed more presidential” and was far more popular than he is today.
    And of course, as shell alludes to, it’s not as if Kerry is reminding anyone that he was in Vietnam.

  10. pdq332 Avatar
    pdq332

    The Swift Boat attacks ARE backlash for the Dems attacks of Bush’s TANG service, and it is simply amazing (and very amusing) that they didn’t see it coming.
    Does the issue remind people of Bush’s non-Vietnam TANG service? Sure. It also reminds people that Kerry both was for and against the Vietnam war by virtue of having fought in it with distinction and then opposing it, just like he is for and against Iraq and for and against so many other things simultaneously. So in the end, it is not even the substance of the SBVT attacks that matter: just keeping the issue alive is enough to demonstrate the inherent duplicity. Instead of being all things to all people, Kerry is being outed as an empty man.

  11. anne.elk Avatar
    anne.elk

    It’s enlightening to read the comments above.
    When Bob Dole Said No, By Noel Koch, The writer was special assistant to President Richard Nixon from 1971 to 1974. He was assistant secretary of defense and director for special planning at the Defense Department from 1981 to 1986.

  12. Kat Avatar
    Kat

    Layne obviously hasn’t seen the latest polls.
    http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=2026&ncid=2026&e=1&u=/latimests/20040826/ts_latimes/bushedgesaheadofkerryforthe1sttime

  13. Barry D Avatar
    Barry D

    Sorry, Jeff. It reads more like Ken Lame.

  14. Catherine Avatar
    Catherine

    Oh, you mean like when Kerry says, this in a campaign press release http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/releases/pr_2004_0427b.html about Bush’s service.
    KERRY IS THE ONE MAKING THIS AN ISSUE!
    Again, Bush-Cheney aren’t the ones bringing up Vietnam over and over again Jeff and Ken. They are not the ones attacking him on his “creative” memory or over how he bad mouthed veterans and played the moral equivalence card (Kerry saying yes, VC kills people, but so does the US…). The people who ARE attacking Kerry are ALSO decorated VETERANS OF NAM and the infamous “HANOI HILTON.”
    I don’t see the blowback on anyone but, Kerry. People still don’t know why they should vote for him ACCEPT for the fact that he “reported for Duty).

  15. Kat Avatar
    Kat

    {he “reported for Duty).} The question that is really concerning me is–for whom did he report for duty–was it the enemy? There are so many inconsistencies to his lies that ,God forgive me, I’m beginning to think he went with the plan to screw America and aid the Communists.

  16. Jim B Avatar
    Jim B

    “Backlash” is the current Democratic codeword for “Make it stop hurting, daddy.”
    From day one they have been crying “the backlash is coming,” and yet every day the bleeding gets worse for the Kerry campaign…(e.g., today’s LA Times poll showing Kerry behind for the first time)
    Here’s the rub: the RNC convention starts on Monday which means the media focus will return to the president, his agenda and his acceptance speech…There won’t be a single word in a single speech denigrating his service in Vietnam. I’ll even bet that Bush will praise Kerry’s Vietnam service in his acceptance speech – thereby making every Democratic attempt from here until election day to smear Bush with scurrilous “AWOL” charges look cheap and petty to independent and swing voters.
    What *will* happen though is that the Kerry team will continue denigrating Bush’s National Guard because they can’t afford to stand and fight on Kerry’s record in the Senate and they can’t afford to argue the issues. Taking a single position rather than putting forth fence-straddling pablum will inevitably anger at least a portion of his base, and Kerry can’t afford to do that.
    He’s caught between Vietnam and a hard place, so he’s going to keep returning to Vietnam because it’s what he’s always done throughout his career…and it’s going to turn off independent and swing voters more and more as we get closer to the election.
    Since this a much more realistic assessment of how things progress from here, guess which way the “backlash” is more likely to flow?

  17. Tom Grey - Liberty Dad Avatar
    Tom Grey – Liberty Dad

    Kerry’s Lie is the sand that Political Correctness is built on top of, and the Leftist Press has been enabling it.
    Leftists claim “moral superiority” based on Kerry Lies. This is the unspoken heart of the issue. See
    http://tomgrey.motime.com/1093544824#329796

  18. Catherine Avatar
    Catherine

    Except, not ACCEPT – how embaraskin’ – sorry.
    From what I have read, Kerry has made Vietnam the center of every one of his campaigns. He’s like Robert Conrad in the Everyready battery ads of long ago – come on, I dare you to question me, I am a Vietnam vet.

  19. JohnC Avatar
    JohnC

    Considering its been proven that Kerry has told the trurh via recods and witensses. I expect people to just brush this off.

  20. Rachel Avatar
    Rachel

    I don’t care about Vietnam. Icare about fixing Iraq, Aghanistand, and the USA. What are the candidate’s ideas for that?

  21. Dan Avatar
    Dan

    I just don’t see what the harm is in reminding people that John Kerry fought in Vietnam. Who cares? I doubt there’s a single person in America who would switch from “not voting for Kerry” to “voting for Kerry” because they found out he fought in Vietnam. The contrast with Bush’s National Guard service doesn’t matter either — everyone already knows Bush didn’t go to Vietnam, and he’s already lost the handful of votes representing the few people who cared.
    Clinton beat two war heroes. Reagan defeated two veterans. Bush himself has already beaten one Vietnam vet — Gore — whose service was much less controversial. War service just doesn’t matter to the electorate.

  22. Matthew Cromer Avatar
    Matthew Cromer

    JohnC,
    You have a definite future with the Kerry campaign — time to start “comedians for Kerry”.

  23. Kat Avatar
    Kat

    Well, it would be nice if the candidate was considered a hero by his own and not a hero in a war museum in N. Vietnam. Don’t you people find that strange–a hero of the commies?

  24. PlotCman Avatar
    PlotCman

    Kerry is a war hero. The people who served with him as well as military record prove that. Its disgusting at how the wing nuts and bush attack dogs smear him as a traitor. As McCain said before they should be ashamed. Its just the usual tactics, they use. Imagine if Clinton went after Dole like Bush’s Thugs are going after Kerry. Why won’t Bush condemn the Swift Boat liars ad? Kerry has condemned the Moveon ads.

  25. h0mi Avatar
    h0mi

    Considering its been proven that Kerry has told the trurh via recods and witensses. I expect people to just brush this off.

    http://www.cnsnews.com//ViewNation.asp?Page=/Nation/archive/200408/NAT20040826a.html
    According to the testimony , which is available in the Congressional Record, Sen. Symington asked Kerry,

  26. Richard Aubrey Avatar
    Richard Aubrey

    War service may not sway the electorate, but we’re not talking about war service here.
    We’re talking about a guy who came home, and while still an officer, lied and lied and slimed US soldiers who had served in Viet Nam.
    That is not “war service”. And it will bother veterans, their families, and sundry others.
    If you were a vet, you might understand why this trumps other issues on which you might have favored Kerry to an extent.
    So the assertion that war service doesn’t interest the electorate, while possibly true, doesn’t apply here.

  27. Chris Josephson Avatar
    Chris Josephson

    Clinton ducked Vietnam by not serving in anything .. not even the National Guard. People didn’t have much of a problem with that.
    Bush is NOT making Vietnam an issue. Others are.
    We’ve heard the arguments about Bush and Vietnam. Those are dead issues, thanks to all the play they’ve already received. Most have looked at the evidence about Bush. There is not much else to say.
    Vietnam WON’T hurt Bush. Any damage has *already* been done. It’s Kerry who is vulnerable when Vietnam is brought up.
    Kerry supporters just don’t *get* the fact that the main Vietnam related issue, that could harm Kerry, is Kerry’s trashing of the vets when he returned to the US.
    It’s not that Kerry was just against Vietnam and marched, gave speeches, etc.. That’s fine. It’s his right and I don’t see any problem with that. It’s the whole ‘Winter Soldier’ issue that is very disturbing and that’s just started to be talked about.
    Bottom Line:
    Did Kerry honestly believe our vets were committing war crimes in Vietnam DAILY, aided by the chain of command?
    -OR-
    Did Kerry realize what he was repeating, as part of ‘winter soldier’, was questionable and just didn’t care?

  28. Sortelli Avatar
    Sortelli

    This is the second time you’ve linked to Ken Layne saying that there will be a SBVT backlash. I’m backlashing against your backlash! SO THERE.
    All this talk about Ken Layne reminding us that everyone’s reminding us that John Kerry served in Vietnam brings up an interesting fact that I wasn’t aware of before, though. John Kerry was in Vietnam?

  29. Insufficiently Sensitive Avatar
    Insufficiently Sensitive

    Layne’s argument is that Kerry served in Viet Nam and Bush didn’t, therefore Kerry is morally superior? That logic might get cheers at the American Legion convention, if Legionnaires were as dumb as lefties paint them. But they’re not – they’re ordinary blokes, connected by shared experiences which Layne and the vast majority of journalists have deliberately avoided.
    Mr. Layne might profitably try considering how did Kerry’s behavior in and following Viet Nam compare with the ‘average’ behavior and experience of other military men in the same era. Kerry has been playing to a gallery of politically liberal and unmilitary citizens – counting on a viciously biased media establishment to support him and to suppress all the awkward or venal parts of his past.

  30. Robert Brown Avatar
    Robert Brown

    I don’t see how the SBVT ads can hurt Bush.
    I think most people already believe that Bush went into the Texas air Guard to avoid Vietnam and may have been lax about attending meetings after his aircraft type was phased out and the guard no longer needed him. They either hold that against him or they don’t.
    Before the SBVT ads, Kerry was constantly bragging about his heroic service in ‘Nam leaving people to imagine him charging the enemy with a bayonet in his teeth under withering fire. Now that the swift vets have told their story and Kerry had to recant his oft told “Christmas in Cambodia” story, I think people are coming to believe that he did his duty and got some medals but probably exaggerated his heroism, which can only hurt him.
    Since the Dems aren’t running Kerry as and antiwar veteran, the next round of ads criticizing his rabid antiwar campaign can only hurt their strategy.

  31. Tom Avatar
    Tom

    Jeff
    First, on many topics I think you are awesome. On this one we disagree. And I think I know why.
    Your generation is so scarred by Vietnam that you miss one important fact. Anyone born after 1963 knows of Vietnam, but it is not a defining part of their experience. And to be honest, it is only the more liberal (todays terms) who gets completely wound up by it. The reason is that this experience is your loadstone, defining how and why you interact with government and society. It was you rebellion. It was your defining battle. (Mine consisted mostly of Jagermiester… A child of the 80’s)
    To be honest, all I see from this episode is that Kerry joined a safe unit, got placed in a tough spot, and did all he could to get out of it.
    If Kerry left it at that, so be it. If he had not gone home and attacked his compatriots, no big deal. If Kerry had been a humble hero, big squat.
    But he did not do any of these things, he did the diametrical opposite. And that is why this information is pertinent to the Veterans and post 60’s generation in our country.
    And that is what the liberals can not understand. They feel that they have both sides of the issue with Kerry. A vietnam hero who “Knows” the antiwar experience.
    But I will bet 10,000 dollars that Kerry’s pollsters understand the voters. And that is why they have collected the dossier’s on all of the Swift Boat participants. And that is why they will fight tooth and nail to discredit the Swifty’s. Because while you see a battle over Vietnam, most people see it as a testament to character.
    And Senor Kerry has been found lacking.
    T

  32. Kat Avatar
    Kat

    I disagree–we hardly need an antiwar leader to fight a sensitive war on terror. Bush can not stop these guys. They don’t need to run ads to spread their truth. They are not a bunch of dummies–they won’t be silenced again.
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A12893-2004Aug18.html

  33. Jeff Jarvis Avatar
    Jeff Jarvis

    T:
    We disagree about a few specifics of Kerry’s motives and history but I think you are right about the impact of Vietnam on my generation — on both sides.
    But mostly, I wanted to say that I appreciate the thoughtful civility of the comment.
    jeff

  34. Tom Avatar
    Tom

    Jeff
    It is my pleasure. I have enjoyed your posts, disagreed with your politics, but someday would love to share a beer or port or coffee and discuss them.
    I may try to get to a blog meet up since I am traveling to Jersey about every other week now.
    T