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War is sad

48 comments on War is sad

War is sad

: Jay Rosen says the essence of the Swiftie story is sadness: It’s sad that we’re still fighting (over) Vietnam.

The way I said it this weekend: “The real lesson of the whole Swift Board brouhaha is this: America isn’t over Vietnam — not by a long shot.”

Glenn Reynolds quotes Dale Franks today with a proposal for a truce — the same one I have been proposing since the beginning of this:

In order to move the presidential campaign away from what happened or didn’t happen in Vietnam 35 years ago, I offer a suggestion. Since the Kerry camp wishes to argue that official Navy records are conclusive proof that Kerry served honorably and with distinction, I suggest that those of us opposed to Kerry offer to accept that argument, as long as the Kerry people accept the logical corollary: the official Air Force records indicating George W. Bush was honorably discharged from his service is conclusive proof that he properly met his obligations as well.

Sold.

But now, sadly, we’ve moved from fighting over Vietnam again to fighting over who started fighting over Vietnam again. Reynolds says Kerry violated a truce on Vietnam in American politics.

Can you say “quagmire”? Vietnam was invoked by Iraq-war opponents and they would probably say it was Bush’s fault for creating another Vietnam. (Readers of this site will know I am not a quagmirist and wouldn’t take the position.)

Well, my fellow Americans, it seems we need to go back on the couch to deal with this Vietnam thing.

But in the meantime, we have a President to elect. Don’t we all just want to move on?

48 responses to “War is sad”

  1. Tom (American Voter) Avatar
    Tom (American Voter)

    From SwiftVets.com home page, “For more than thirty years, most Vietnam veterans kept silent as we were maligned as misfits, addicts, and baby killers. Now that a key creator of that poisonous image is seeking the Presidency we have resolved to end our silence.”
    Until this betrayal is addressed, nothing anyone says or does is going to make them stand down. If people want to this end, it is going to take a personal apology from John Kerry and the mainstream media saying they were wrong to blame the enlisted men and anyone below the rank of General for what happened in Vietnam. When that happens, then the real healing can begin and we can all move on.

  2. carsonfire Avatar
    carsonfire

    I’m just young enough to know almost nothing about the Vietnam War, apart from the odd documentary and history lesson. I actually appreciate the living history lesson that this situation is providing us, as I am learning more about the era, despite the claims and counter-claims.
    I find nothing sad about it at all, because it seems to me that only one side has had control over the Vietnam “story” up till now. These veterans deserve to be heard, and the Kerry stuff might just be a good catalyst for real healing,instead of just pretending for decades that we put it behind us.

  3. Reid Avatar
    Reid

    That’s right, Tom. And, when that happens, the winged razorback will soar into the skies. And, anyone thinks this business is going to stop if Kerry is elected is fooling themselves. We will be refighting Vietnam for the next four years at least. And, it won’t just be the vets, ’cause God knows, Kerry can’t hardly appear in public without somehow bringing his time there up again and again, and again, and again.

  4. Andy Avatar
    Andy

    Without Vietnam Kerry has no campaign.
    30 Front page NYTimes articles on Bush military and just so few on Kerry?
    $62M spent by Kerry 527’s with over $170M raised. What will they do with the Anti-Bush money? More Bush = Hitler ads that Kerry does not condemn? More Whoopie Goldberg drunken rants that Kerry will not condemn?
    HOWCOME the Kerry side with all the money, all the media, all the celebrities wants to call the war over? Why now?
    Without Vietnam, what does Kerry stand for?
    Shall we discuss his post Vietnam experience?
    Shall we discuss his Senate experience on the POW-MIA issue? What about his relationship with Danny Ortega?
    The call for a truce looks an awful lot like a desire to talk about Bush and silence any examination of Kerry. Does America really win with a stealth candidate becoming President?
    When will Kerry be examined? What records will be examined? What history will be presented in detail?
    A truce on his history. A call that character does not matter. What standard will we use to measure the next President?
    Seemingly the only measure is that he not be Bush.
    That seems a very shallow and partisan measure.

  5. Mike G Avatar
    Mike G

    I’ve had a truce on the table over this from the very beginning. The terms are very simple: if John Kerry can articulate a clear idea of how he intends to deal with three or four major problems, of which two must be Iraq and Al-Qaeda, then I don’t give a crap if he spent the whole war boinking Janis Joplin in a hammock in Canada, stoned out of his gourd.
    I was ready to give Treebeard a chance, I was looking forward to his speech, I was primed by Obama and Bill and everybody who spoke before him, and then he trotted out his Manchurian Candidate war hero act and talked about prescription drug benefits and all that other ephemeral nothingness that the Dems think the election is about. And then it was over for me, I could never vote for him as I could never vote for Bob Dole in ’96 or George McClellan in 1864, and this other stuff is just the footnotes for me to a story that’s written and filed.

  6. alcibiades Avatar
    alcibiades

    The media all along has pointed out through their polling that John Kerry had to erode the trust that people put in George Bush as a leader before Kerry could be elected. There was nothing secret about this as their strategy. So that is what the Kerry camp set out to do, systematically. And thus we got the avalanche of AWOL attacks, traitor, coward, etc. on Bush. That had to be their strategy because they thought that was the only way they could erode Bush’s popularity in the place of his greatest strength. Attack the opponent’s strong points and his entire defense whithers: that was Alexander’s secret in waging wars.
    But the plan backfired at this point, because there was a barrage of return fire.
    As General Tommy Franks recently said during one of his interviews in his book tour, “The enemy gets a vote in the outcome too.” In this case, it was a commando raid on their base, and Kerry’s camp was will prepared for it.
    But since it was the return fire to an engagement that they themselves had precipitated, not once, but twice, they can hardly complain legitimately: once in the course of the campaign, and twice, far more seriously during Kerry’s Senate testimony. Doing so, makes them look weak. And emphasizes Bush’s stoic silence in the face of damaging attacks.

  7. John Avatar
    John

    Since McCain-Feingold bans 527 TV ads for the final two months of the campaign, the commercials from the Swift Boat Vets and MoveOn.org theorhetically should vanish after next week’s Republican National Convention (I add the theorhetically because theorhetically we weren’t supposed to be going through this kind of stuff in the first place after McCain-Feingold was passed. But Congress failed to appreciate the inventiveness of political advocacy groups, so I wouldn’t bet the farm on seeing all this stuff vanish as of Sept. 3).
    Anyway, Jeff, if the 527s are reduced to simply press releeases through fax machines and streaming video ads on websites, you should get your wish for a more substantial campaign between Labor Day and Nov. 2. Hopefully, the debate will stay on Bush’s four-year record as president versus Kerry’s 20-year record in the Senate, since those are the positions, votes and proposals that the voters should be deciding the election on come November.

  8. Cog Avatar
    Cog

    Would that truce involve Moveon.org, Moveon PAC, George Soros, TMF, and the Michael Moore book being released on Oct 5th of soldiers anti-war letters? Not to mention the release of his Farenheit 9-11 dvd later that month, days before the election?
    Days after Kerry’s “bring it on”, it has now become, “make them stop”. And to my knowledge, he has only called for a stop of the swift boat veterans.
    A truce indeed.

  9. John Avatar
    John

    Since McCain-Feingold bans 527 TV ads for the final two months of the campaign, the commercials from the Swift Boat Vets and MoveOn.org theorhetically should vanish after next week’s Republican National Convention (I add the theorhetically because theorhetically we weren’t supposed to be going through this kind of stuff in the first place after McCain-Feingold was passed. But Congress failed to appreciate the inventiveness of political advocacy groups, so I wouldn’t bet the farm on seeing all this stuff vanish as of Sept. 3).
    Anyway, Jeff, if the 527s are reduced to simply press releeases through fax machines and streaming video ads on websites, you should get your wish for a more substantial campaign between Labor Day and Nov. 2. Hopefully, the debate will stay on Bush’s four-year record as president versus Kerry’s 20-year record in the Senate, since those are the positions, votes and proposals that the voters should be deciding the election on come November.

  10. Tim Avatar
    Tim

    I don’t understand the problems with the 527 ad’s. It’s like the media, political parties and the government have said that you can give us money, but you can’t say anything.
    How else were the Swift boat Vets supposed to air their complaints about Kerry? They did not want to be partisan, but they obviously don’t like Kerry.
    If the media, political parties and the government doesn’t like what some people are saying about them, tough. This is what you get paid the big bucks to do.
    It isn’t pretty, it isn’t nice, it isn’t fair and at times, it isn’t even right. But the 527 ad’s are what free speech is about.
    If a 527 ad is libelous, wrong ect. Those laws should be enforced, but don’t condemn the speech, condemn the content.
    If you think that the people should be deciding candidates on the “issues”. Who do you think you are deciding what “issues” are important.
    I don’t think that Kerry’s Vietnam’s record is important. But what is important is his reaction to being attacked, and only private citizens were willing to attack Kerry on this issue.

  11. Rachel Avatar
    Rachel

    My biggest concern is these computer voting machines. The way people are talking about them, they are dangerous because they can be easily frauded (sp). What is everyone else’s concern? And do you know if the states are required to have a paper option?

  12. Chris Josephson Avatar
    Chris Josephson

    I’m more than willing to read or listen to anything Kerry has to say about what his plans are to lead our nation if he gets elected. I’d love to hear him talk about the War on Terror and the economy, just to mention two things.
    Why is it an either or proposition? I’m equally glad to allow the vets to have their say. I have the ability, as do most people, to concentrate on more than one issue. I can take in what Kerry has to say about current events and also do the same with the Swift Boat Vets.
    Let Kerry speak about Iraq, the War on terror, the Economy. Nobody is stopping him. I’m sure the MSM is very eager to print what he says. Blogs can follow up the discussion.
    If you want to stop talking about Vietnam, stop talking. Just don’t expect everyone else to stop as well.

  13. Tom (American Voter) Avatar
    Tom (American Voter)

    Reid said, “And, it won’t just be the vets, ’cause God knows, Kerry can’t hardly appear in public without somehow bringing his time there up again and again, and again, and again.”
    And up until the SwiftVets started their ads, that someone was Kerry.

  14. Tom (American Voter) Avatar
    Tom (American Voter)

    Reid said, “And, it won’t just be the vets, ’cause God knows, Kerry can’t hardly appear in public without somehow bringing his time there up again and again, and again, and again.”
    And up until the SwiftVets started their ads, that someone was Kerry.

  15. Dave Schuler Avatar
    Dave Schuler

    Well, my fellow Americans, it seems we need to go back on the couch to deal with this Vietnam thing.
    It won’t be over for another 50 years. Not until the last Baby Boomer is dead. It’s a decision that was made when our government decided to take us to war there regardless of the consequences and some of us decided to oppose that war regardless of the consequences. Meet the consequences.

  16. Jeff Avatar
    Jeff

    I think if Kerry wants to nip this in the bud, he should either fully address the charges against him (and explain all of the “inconsistencies”, and why there are so many to begin with), OR shut up and stop using his Vietnam experience to define himself.
    One or the other, and this should cool off…

  17. Catherine Avatar
    Catherine

    The only person who brought up Vietnam over and over is Kerry. All of the home movies and re-enactments of battle scences at the convention that started with him coming to shore in Boston on what he hoped would be an actual swift boat; reporting for duty; I fought hard then I will fight hard now…
    I don’t know how you can blame Bush, Jeff. He has nothing to do with what Kerry decided to push as his number one qualification for the Presidency. YOU REAP WHAT YOU SOW.
    Bottom line, if the Swift Boat vets or anyone else can pay for an ad to say what they want within the confines of the law they should. They have a right to say, me, Joe Vet hates Kerry for what he said about me and my fellow vets, if they want to. Period.

  18. Angelos Avatar
    Angelos

    I agree, let’s forget Vietnam, and get back to 2004:
    -3.5 years of terribly policy, with no one held to account
    -a floundering economy
    -a bad job market
    -ridiculous deficits
    -a tragically misguided, poorly planned, miserably executed war
    -our military and its subcontractors ass-raping little boys in Abu Ghraib
    -the cost of the war, the cost of the drug plan, the “success” of the tax cuts, all lies
    -religious zealotry trumping science and research
    -a morally and intellectually bankrupt adminstration taking the nation down the shitter with it
    Oh wait, maybe Bush should really be talking about 30 years ago, when he was a coke-addled frat-boy. That’s probably a better reflection of his ability.

  19. Tom Grey - Liberty Dad Avatar
    Tom Grey – Liberty Dad

    Vietnam will never be over, because the idea of America, and Freedom, is based on the moral high ground. So one of the following two positions is morally superior.
    1) Fighting foreign evil, even if innocents are inadvertently killed, is good, and more moral or
    2) Not fighting, not killing, and accepting “evil victorious” (even genocide) by opposing it merely with words, saves more American lives, and is more moral.
    If you have a better, more fair phraseology, I’d be truly happy to read it. But while I support fighting evil, it’s clear there’s a point that too much dying makes it “not worth it”.

  20. rogozhin Avatar
    rogozhin

    My biggest concern is these computer voting machines. The way people are talking about them, they are dangerous because they can be easily frauded (sp). What is everyone else’s concern? And do you know if the states are required to have a paper option?
    The Republican Party in Florida is suggesting to all its members to vote via absentee ballot, as that’s the only way to get your vote counted on paper in Florida. I recommend to all Floridians, regardless of political affiliation, that they vote absentee. The computerized voting booths are more vulnerable to hanky-panky than the companies that produce and sell them are willing to admit. Just the fact that the majority of the machines use WinXP for their OS is reason enough to expect problems.

  21. Walter Wallis Avatar
    Walter Wallis

    During the Vietnam war, any anti-war, pro communist advocate could get all the ink he desired while those few of us who wanted to show support for our side had to scrabble for exposure. Almost none of my supportive letters were printed. There was an editorial disposition to trash the war effort, and damn little that went counter saw the light of day.
    “The Media” is no longer gatekeeper, and they are pissed about their loss.

  22. Kim Avatar
    Kim

    John Podhoretz has a good article up in the Post. http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/opedcolumnists/29354.htm
    “If life were fair, all we could do, in the absence of concrete proof to the contrary, is give John Kerry the benefit of the doubt. He was decorated several times by the Navy.
    That ought to be good enough for everybody

  23. Kat Avatar
    Kat

    It wasn’t just during the Vietnam war–it is NOW. Instead of doing research into Kerry

  24. joe Avatar
    joe

    John Kerry is wounded and on the run. No mercy will be granted and no truce invoked. The veterans of vietnam, accused of murder and rape by Mr. Kerry in 1971, while still in harms way, are determined to destroy this man and rightly so. Mr. Kerrys’ begging for mercy will fall on deaf ears. The veterans he disparaged are true warriors, smell blood and will move in for the (political) kill. Mr. Kerry has no one to blame but himself and his blind ambition.
    Joe

  25. Angelos Avatar
    Angelos

    Kat, wipe the drool off your chin.
    Let’s see, some who speaks out in support of John Kerry, say like William Rood, is a “stool pigeon”. But someone who gets paid to be in an ad must be telling the truth, as long as it’s against Kerry.
    That’s some level-headed thinking right there.
    BTW, where was your boy Georgie 35 years ago? For someone so hawkish, he displayed (and continues to display) remarkably small testicular fortitude. Real tough guy, hiding behind daddy, the Saud’s money, god, Dick Cheney. What a spectacular failure.

  26. lupe Avatar
    lupe

    Yes, we have a President to elect during a time of world wide Islamic insurgency.
    Do you trust Kerry to make the right kind of peace in Iraq?
    It’s easy to point out the errors made in prosecuting the war in Vietnam. I wish Kerry would discuss the errors made in negotiating peace in Vietnam. His perspective may shed light on how he would ease us out of Iraq.

  27. Kat Avatar
    Kat

    Sadly there are enough lefties willing to buy into Maureen Dowd’s dumbbroad.com. who wants us to moveon and dismiss the dissenting Vietnam veterans as ‘creepy-crawly, stomach-turning, sleazoids’. But she writes for the NYT so she must be right. It is cool to denigrate these vets yet one more time. Weren’t Kerry’s treasonous lies enough–we need this leftist slinging shit at them–again. These guys deserve respect!

  28. Kat Avatar
    Kat

    {What a spectacular failure.} Angelos–I’m not interested in your autobiography–I know you are a dickless dolt.

  29. Angelos Avatar
    Angelos

    So Joe and Kat, you’re denying that some American soldiers committed war crimes in Vietnam? You’re saying he had no right to testify to the atrocities of war?
    Then it’s no wonder you subscribe to the anti-Americanism that is support of the Bush administration. All dissent must be stifled! All dissenters destroyed!

  30. O'McSomething Avatar
    O’McSomething

    Reynolds doesn’t want a truce. What makes you thinks that? Then he would actually have to post about the issues and stuff and he knows his boy ain’t got jack. He’s blogging and posting about all this crap on his MSNBC column and I don’t see any sign of a truce. Insty has been coming up so short lately it is pathetic.

  31. Oscar Avatar
    Oscar

    I commend to everyones attention Chernow’s bio of Hamilton. I have been reading it, and find it fascinating that the level of vituperation of this campaign is much like that right after the end of the Revolution. As Kerry might say: “plus ca change, plus c’est le meme chose”

  32. Robert E. Bihlmayer Avatar
    Robert E. Bihlmayer

    “Don’t we all just want to move on?”
    no, quite frankly, many of us do NOT want to “move on” back to the days of the Left-dominated “consensus” which stated that betraying our allies, surrendering to the Communists without ever even fighting to win, and condemning literally millions of Indochinese to murder or exile was both “right” and “honorable” when it was neither. as an adolescent, i marched against the war; as an adult, i would be ashamed to admit same to the Vietnamese gentlemen with whom i work. It’s not time to “move on,” it’s time to go back and uncover the truth. This, perhaps, is Kerry’s true historical role: to be the scab which is ripped away from the still-festering wound of America’s shameful cut-and-run.

  33. Kat Avatar
    Kat

    {All dissent must be stifled! All dissenters destroyed! } Make them stop waaaaaaaaa
    or I will have George Soros and ilk send 250,000 demonstrators to New York and some of us carry weapons and explosives. Dissent is only ok when it is leftist, but those damned sleazoids(Maureen Dowd) have no right to point out I got a purple heart for a self inflicted injury–that makes me more like a klutz than a hero–and a friggin liar. Please George, make ’em stop. Don’t allow these guys the freedom of speech–after all they put their lives on the line for this coutry and I did more–I betrayed it.

  34. Catherine Avatar
    Catherine

    Angelos – how old are you? Seriously. Can you say why you support Kerry or is it just all RWC theories? Again. Why do you support Kerry?
    These “guys” weren’t paid to be in an ad. These “guys” are people that spent 2 – 7 years being tortured in POW camps. These “guys” were tortured by the VC with Kerry’s statement and told they should give it up since their own side is against them. Don’t you think they have a right to be pissed and a right to say so since Kerry is parading he is one of the “band of brothers”? I think it is fair to say that their sense of betrayal by Kerry is seared – seared in their memories.
    Do you agree that the person who has started all of this talk about 35 years ago was a Kerry himself.
    Angelos, these are yes and no answers. Can you answer them truthfully with out ad hominem attacks on Bush, et al?

  35. Kat Avatar
    Kat

    “When we dedicated swift boat one in ’92, I said to all the swift guys that I wasn’t talking about the swifties, I was talking about all the rest of the veterans.”
    Please guys, don’t hold my past against me–I know I helped the Commies, but what’d you expect–the Commies are my band of bros, so could we just moveon.
    http://drudgereport.com/dnc98.htm
    Oh, and the Kerry camp is now admitting that the first purple heart may have been accidentally self inflicted–course we leftists all know that you only get one for enemy inflicted wounds–but what’s one lie when your whole life is a lie.

  36. Angelos Avatar
    Angelos

    Have you NOT witnessed anyone who has strayed even remotely from the party line, even long-time REPUBLICANS and Republican appointees, has been summarily drawn-and-quartered on every morning talk show by the Bush/Cheney/Rummy/Rice/McClellan posse.
    Kat, you’re just f-ing insane. You just buy anything they feed you, don’t you? Isn’t Bush the one trying to shut down all ads? While not, of course, specifically condemning the ones that favor him? He’d love to silence those that oppose him, wouldn’t he? Why does he hate freedom so?
    What the fuck does my age have to do with anthing? I’m old enough to be a self-employed, home-owning, tax-paying, disgusted American.
    These guys were POWs Catherine? Really? Well then, they must be un-patriotic cowards like McCain, Cleland, etc., and anyone else who doesn’t bow down and suck the Bush teat. Oh, wait, they support Georgie, so they MUST be honest and free of ulterior motives and promises of future payoffs for this besmirching of their own integrity, this attempt to alter history that’s been in the Navy’s books for 35 years. How many of them have changed their tune since they praised Kerry in 69, 70, and as recently as 96 and 99?
    It’s all the Democrats that served in the war that are somehow unpatriotic.

  37. Matt Avatar
    Matt

    If Angelos had an original thought his head would explode.

  38. Kat Avatar
    Kat

    Angelos:
    http://www.grouchyoldcripple.com/archives/crybabies.jpg

  39. Angelos Avatar
    Angelos

    That’s some good rhetoric there. Square in the middle of the Bush demographic. Stupid and non-questioning.

  40. paul a'barge Avatar
    paul a’barge

    Reid: “anyone thinks this business is going to stop if Kerry is elected is fooling themselves”
    Right.
    In fact, if Kerry is elected, this country’s entire Viet Nam wound will pop like a pustule.
    Look Jeff. We didn’t open up Viet Nam. Kerry did this. He’s been doing this his entire career. And at the DIMocRAT convention, he shoved it into the great, gaping maw of America.
    Tell me, Jeff … who organized MoveOn.Org and incited them and Soros to slander GWB?
    And now, you want to drop it?
    Why, because Kerry’s taking it in the ass over Viet Nam?
    Nope. Sorry. This has to do with this man’s character. You want it dropped, you get Kerry to drop out of the race.

  41. Angelos Avatar
    Angelos

    Hey, another liar for you (from ABC news)
    Alfred French of the Clackamas County district attorney’s office appears in the ad sponsored by the group Swift Boat Veterans for Truth. In the spot, French says: “I served with John Kerry. … He is lying about his record.”
    But….
    In an interview with The Oregonian newspaper last week, French said he relied on the accounts of three other veterans in making the statement about Kerry and did not personally witness the events.
    Oh, and the best part:
    Before recording the ad, French signed an affidavit that said: “I am able to swear, as I do hereby swear, that all facts and statements contained in this affidavit are true and correct and within my personal knowledge and belief.”
    So, a republican politician was willing to LIE to get himself on a TV ad? And you’re telling me there wasn’t money and/or future consideration involved? Ahh, smell the deperation from the bushies.
    I’m as sick as Vietnam as all of you people, but as the 527ers continue to get crushed by, um, evidence, Bush can’t now ask for all of the ads to be dropped. And the blind supporters will just have to open their eyes one of these days.

  42. Scott Avatar
    Scott

    It is truly masterful that Carl Rove and President Bush’s supporters have made John Kerry and his Vietnam War experience the focal point of debate. Admittedly, Kerry helped them by touting his service in veiled contrast to G.W. Bush’s lack of service. However, the painful thing is that the country is far worse off now in virtually every area than it was 4 years ago when the Bush administration took over the executive branch. With the focus on putting John Kerry on the defensive over this issue, Bush and company wisely can avoid the American peoples focus on his own failed policies and programs from the economy to Iraq. Hopefully, people will get back on track and decide whether they can afford another four years of the Bush administration or not. I do not believe another four years of this administration is in the best interest of the country from taxes and tax cuts to foreign policy to employment to the environment. The list goes on and on…. John Kerry is a viable candidate who has the acument to build an administration that can succeed for America.
    As an aside, the American people need to be able to make a distinction between supporting our troops versus supporting the poor use of them, whether in Vietnam or around the world now, particularly in Iraq. There were and still are more than one solution to the struggle against Islamic fundamentalism that tips towards militancy and terrorism and we should not be misled any longer. Even Robert McNamara, the Secretary of Defense who was most assuredly one of the key personalities responsible for escalating US involvement in Vietnam admits quite freely that their decisions were flawed and bad choices were made that cost America over 50,000 lives. I believe history will tell us the same thing about Iraq, though we will not “lose” Iraq like people believe we “lost” Vietnam. We never had it. The Vietnam veterans against the war joined people like Senator Mike Mansfield who told LBJ from the start that the policy in Vietnam was flawed. There is not dishonor in speaking your convictions as John Kerry did, and contrary to the folks who believe he owes others an apology for his opposition to the war don’t have it right. He and others opposed to the war helped to cause our government to find a way to extricate itself from a war in Vietnam that the US had no realistic chance of winning barring a strategy of total war that truly didn’t make sense militarily or politically. Nixon and Kissinger saw that and got us out with the slogan “Peace with Honor” that in the end was anything but honorable for the people we were purportedly defending.
    I believe the Bush campaigners will milk this swift boat controversy for all it is worth to deflect conversation and debate on the real serious subjects of today. Hopefully the majority of Americans will see this red herring for what it is and think independently of who is likely to take us out of the malaise we are in. I believe strongly a change of administration is a key to get our country moving in the right direction again.

  43. Scott Avatar
    Scott

    It is truly masterful that Carl Rove and President Bush’s supporters have made John Kerry and his Vietnam War experience the focal point of debate. Admittedly, Kerry helped them by touting his service in veiled contrast to G.W. Bush’s lack of service. However, the painful thing is that the country is far worse off now in virtually every area than it was 4 years ago when the Bush administration took over the executive branch. With the focus on putting John Kerry on the defensive over this issue, Bush and company wisely can avoid the American peoples focus on his own failed policies and programs from the economy to Iraq. Hopefully, people will get back on track and decide whether they can afford another four years of the Bush administration or not. I do not believe another four years of this administration is in the best interest of the country from taxes and tax cuts to foreign policy to employment to the environment. The list goes on and on…. John Kerry is a viable candidate who has the acument to build an administration that can succeed for America.
    As an aside, the American people need to be able to make a distinction between supporting our troops versus supporting the poor use of them, whether in Vietnam or around the world now, particularly in Iraq. There were and still are more than one solution to the struggle against Islamic fundamentalism that tips towards militancy and terrorism and we should not be misled any longer. Even Robert McNamara, the Secretary of Defense who was most assuredly one of the key personalities responsible for escalating US involvement in Vietnam admits quite freely that their decisions were flawed and bad choices were made that cost America over 50,000 lives. I believe history will tell us the same thing about Iraq, though we will not “lose” Iraq like people believe we “lost” Vietnam. We never had it. The Vietnam veterans against the war joined people like Senator Mike Mansfield who told LBJ from the start that the policy in Vietnam was flawed. There is not dishonor in speaking your convictions as John Kerry did, and contrary to the folks who believe he owes others an apology for his opposition to the war don’t have it right. He and others opposed to the war helped to cause our government to find a way to extricate itself from a war in Vietnam that the US had no realistic chance of winning barring a strategy of total war that truly didn’t make sense militarily or politically. Nixon and Kissinger saw that and got us out with the slogan “Peace with Honor” that in the end was anything but honorable for the people we were purportedly defending.
    I believe the Bush campaigners will milk this swift boat controversy for all it is worth to deflect conversation and debate on the real serious subjects of today. Hopefully the majority of Americans will see this red herring for what it is and think independently of who is likely to take us out of the malaise we are in. I believe strongly a change of administration is a key to get our country moving in the right direction again.

  44. paul a'barge Avatar
    paul a’barge

    Jeff,
    You want to see Viet Nam dropped?
    Read this (from Glenn): http://instapundit.com/archives/017363.php
    Not going to drop Viet Name, Jeff. Not in your lifetime.
    Oh Scott: “It is truly masterful that Carl Rove and President Bush’s supporters have made John Kerry and his Vietnam War experience the focal point of debate”. What treacle. Please. Repub’s have been describing Kerry as honorable, right up until Kerry walked up to the podium at the DIMocRAT convention and said “Reporting for Duty”.
    John Kerry did this, all by himself.

  45. onecent Avatar
    onecent

    Scott, Kerry made his Vietnam record the focal point of the debate or did you miss the Convention? Try to remember his picture backdrop and words. There was nothing dishonorable during the Vietnam era in serving in the National Guard, my friend. Others fled to Canada, some crafted deferments and contributed nada(no one really cares anymore). But, the bigger picture, Scott, is that Vietnam was long behind us until Kerry made it, rather than his Senate record, his campaign centerpiece. Being a pompous asshole, he never expected the current examination his record of nothingness in every realm that is now happening.
    Scott, after big stock market bubbles(Clinton years)the symmetry of recovery is historically equal years of recession. Got that. Bush inherited the present economic situation. And, it is amazing we aren’t mired in a worse economic situation.
    Bush has failed in every realm? Not the one that counts for me, going after the creeps that are a cancer on humanity, your basic 9/11 terrorists/fascists, in their own neighborhood. Clinton never even showed up to the scene of the original WTC crime in ’93.
    Kerry “lead”? Barf. Name anything notable or original in his senate record of 20 years? Some piece of legislation of note? He was a “B” player in his best years. This is the guy that wants to show “more sympathy” towards terrorists. His words.
    Your thumbnail sketch of history lacks comprehension and logic skills.

  46. onecent Avatar
    onecent

    Scott, Kerry made his Vietnam record the focal point of the debate or did you miss the Convention? Try to remember his picture backdrop and words. There was nothing dishonorable during the Vietnam era in serving in the National Guard, my friend. Others fled to Canada, some crafted deferments and contributed nada(no one really cares anymore). But, the bigger picture, Scott, is that Vietnam was long behind us until Kerry made it, rather than his Senate record, his campaign centerpiece. Being a pompous asshole, he never expected the current examination his record of nothingness in every realm that is now happening.
    Scott, after big stock market bubbles(Clinton years)the symmetry of recovery is historically equal years of recession. Got that. Bush inherited the present economic situation. And, it is amazing we aren’t mired in a worse economic situation.
    Bush has failed in every realm? Not the one that counts for me, going after the creeps that are a cancer on humanity, your basic 9/11 terrorists/fascists, in their own neighborhood. Clinton never even showed up to the scene of the original WTC crime in ’93.
    Kerry “lead”? Barf. Name anything notable or original in his senate record of 20 years? Some piece of legislation of note? He was a “B” player in his best years. This is the guy that wants to show “more sympathy” towards terrorists. His words.
    Your thumbnail sketch of history lacks comprehension and logic skills.

  47. Kat Avatar
    Kat

    I hear that a Russian jet has crashed and one is missing,while a bomb kills 4 in a bus station. Does this bring back sick memories?

  48. Tom Grey - Liberty Dad Avatar
    Tom Grey – Liberty Dad

    Jeff — I wrote this on NZ Bear’s site.
    Jeff understands, or maybe only feels, that his own “moral superiority” is based on PC Leftism. And that Kerry’s Lies are part of the foundation of PC.
    It’s not a “culture war” — it’s a war over moral superiority.
    http://tomgrey.motime.com/1093544824#329796
    The 3 big issues the Kerry Lie brings up:
    1) Kerry