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Tet offensive

39 comments on Tet offensive

Tet offensive

: Meep leaves a wonderful comment below and I quote in full:

Jeeez. Boomers.

Vietnam was over before I was =born=. And boomers =still= think they’re the center of America. Well, I’ve gotta say, not for much longer.

Most people my age don’t even know what the whole Vietnam thing was about, and why it’s considered a “bad” war compared to those “good” wars. What’s the diff between Korea and Vietnam, I’d like to know, other than in Vietnam we let the commies win?

You know what this reminds me of? “The South Will Rise Again” nuts. Think of the bitterness of the old confederate vets that festered for years… and the South remained a backwater until it gave up that confederate outlook and decided to join the 20th century and become a magnet for business. Are boomers going to be eating their livers in retirement because of Vietnam? Sounds like it to me.

Looking at my mortality tables (I’m an actuarial-type), I note that boomer deaths are really going to pick up over the next couple decades. I’m hoping that will finally get people to shut up about Vietnam. I notice that generation Xers (my generation) don’t go on about this crap – unlike the children of the confederates, we’re not carrying this forth to future generations. So I guess the boomers should wallow in this while they’re still alive, because their children sure won’t.

I just hope that in 2035 someone not yet born writes in a medium not invented: “Jeez. Xers. Iraq was over before I was =born=.”

Come to think of it, I do hope that in 2035, someone not yet born writes, “The war on terror was over before I was born.” We can only hope.

: Anil adds in the comments:

Being the same age as Meep, I have to agree and also point out that it’s likely that we’re the ones (those born 1975 and later) who are likely to decide this election. Keep on blathering about non-issues, folks…

: And Robert Sterling pipes in:

FWIW, I’m an early X-er born in 1970, with a fairly keen recollection of the mid-70s. I remember how bad hippies smelled, and that alone is nearly sufficient to indict your generation.

Hey, I was clean. I wore really goofy purple shirts and sandals (no socks). But I was clean.

39 responses to “Tet offensive”

  1. Anil Avatar
    Anil

    Being the same age as Meep, I have to agree and also point out that it’s likely that we’re the ones (those born 1975 and later) who are likely to decide this election. Keep on blathering about non-issues, folks…

  2. Jeff Jarvis Avatar
    Jeff Jarvis

    Anil:
    As we old farts say: Right on, man.

  3. Jeff Sharlet Avatar
    Jeff Sharlet

    Is this for real? Sarcasm, right? I respect Meep’s fatigue with the baloney coming out of the campaigns right now, but he writes like a fool. I think I’m the same generation. Most people I know do know why Vietnam mattered — especially my Vietnamese American friends, and all those who lost relatives (for me it was an uncle). It’s idiotic remarks like this that lead 18-year-old kids into getting themselves blown up in Iraq without knowing why. That’s not a pro-war or anti-war statement, it’s a fact. Try reading a book, Meep. Hell, try watching a movie.

  4. Sterling Avatar
    Sterling

    Yeah, I was going to write something saying you were dating yourself, Jeff, but I figured someone else would do it.
    In hindsight, the self-promotional character of the leaders of the “peace movement” seems incredibly obvious, and the entire thing stinks of a generation of spoiled brats who thought the world revolved around them. But in the end communism failed as a global force, the “sexual revolution” failed, Boomers have failed to socialize medicine, and with any luck your generation won’t be able to put the whole country in hock to pay for your Social Security and Medicare. And when the Boomers are gone we can go back to being a relatively conservative constitutional republic. This is already happening – the elite Boomer radicals have lost their grip on the country (and all three branches of gov’t) but still have their talons in the leadership of the Democrat Party.
    FWIW, I’m an early X-er born in 1970, with a fairly keen recollection of the mid-70s. I remember how bad hippies smelled, and that alone is nearly sufficient to indict your generation.

  5. Demosophist Avatar
    Demosophist

    Looking at my mortality tables (I’m an actuarial-type), I note that boomer deaths are really going to pick up over the next couple decades. I’m hoping that will finally get people to shut up about Vietnam.

    I hate to say it, but this guy conforms to all the stereotypes of a “me first” dimwitted, educationally-deprived X-er. Thank God, for the Y generation!
    (Boomer for Bush)

  6. Sterling Avatar
    Sterling

    I hate to say it, but this guy conforms to all the stereotypes of a “me first” dimwitted, educationally-deprived X-er.

    I’m sorry? How soon we forget the demographic tags of yore. When we X-ers were still wearing polyester short pants, you folks were dubbed the “ME Generation”.

  7. Demosophist Avatar
    Demosophist

    Vietnam was over before I was =born=.

    Yah gotta wonder what a dufus like this thinks of Victor Davis Hanson’s rather longish considerations of the Peloponnesian, Theban, and Civil Wars. Or for that matter what the hell my grandfather was doing as an aircraft mechanic in France during 1918.
    OK, not everyone in that generation is such a fool. In fact, very few… probably.

  8. Demosophist Avatar
    Demosophist

    I’m sorry? How soon we forget the demographic tags of yore. When we X-ers were still wearing polyester short pants, you folks were dubbed the “ME Generation”.

    Not wanting to get into a serious generational conflict, but do you really want to be identified with this idiot just because you happened to be born in the same decade? Half the boomers are idiots, and half aren’t. Our current Commander in Chief is a “boomer,” as are VDH, Bill Kristol, and Colin Powell. I’d be happy to be identified with them, frankly, but you can keep your generational chauvinism, and as far as I’m concerned anyone who buys into it has a screw loose… including Jeff, if he’s not just kidding.
    Lack of clarity is not a virtue.

  9. Sterling Avatar
    Sterling

    Of course I want to get into conflict! What’s the point of the comments section, otherwise? Don’t tell me you’re some kind of Boomer nancy-boy?
    Hahaha.

  10. Person of Choler Avatar
    Person of Choler

    Meep,
    Like, totally don’t pay attention to history, dude.

  11. Tom (American Voter) Avatar
    Tom (American Voter)

    For those who think Vietnam isn’t relevant to the current conflict in Iraq, which US war would you compare it to? Maybe I don’t know enough history, but it seems there would be many lessons to be learned especially from the 1963 to 1972 period when large numbers of Americans where on the ground.

  12. Bud Norton Avatar
    Bud Norton

    Sounds like Meep would like the “Boomer Deathwatch” webpage: http://www.rickmcginnis.com/boomer/

  13. Demosophist Avatar
    Demosophist

    Of course I want to get into conflict! What’s the point of the comments section, otherwise? Don’t tell me you’re some kind of Boomer nancy-boy?
    Hahaha.

    Well, not wanting to get into a conflict about getting into conflict about what to do about conflict over analysis of whether the central issue is ancient or modern conflict, or both… I’ve made my position perfectly clear, you purple-haired, devolutionary, espresso-sipping… Sorry, all I can think of are adjectives and verbs, and I certainly wouldn’t want to imply you’re a verb.

  14. Brian H Avatar
    Brian H

    Sufficient unto each generaton is the folly thereof.
    I have spoken.

  15. Demosophist Avatar
    Demosophist

    Actually, I think Vietnam is relevant not just because of its similarities to Iraq, but because it facilitates a comparative method. By comparing two historical events that are similar in many respects you can get insight into how and why they’re different. It’s a way, in other words, of “holding all else equal” without resorting to statistical analysis or experimental method.
    Thus, although the two situations are very similar in terms of the type of warfare (asymmetric or guerilla), objective (building or facilitating a liberal democratic nation), method (Vietnamization and Iraqification), and the enemy (forms of totalitarian ideology) they differ in types of terrain (forrested and rural vs. desert and urban), the much greater organizational and technological readiness of a volunteer military vs. the trainwreck of a conscripted military, the role of religious and cultural taboos, and *primarily* the fact that we have suffered a devastating attack on our own soil equaled only by some of the larger battles of the Civil War. All told, I like our odds much better this time around.
    I’m anxious to read VDH’s account of the Peloponnesian War, however, just to get a fix on how universal these kinds of conflicts are, and how we might benefit from knowing some of the strategic successes and mistakes of the classical war between Liberarism 1.0 and Totalitarianism 1.0.

  16. John Avatar
    John

    As a member of the late boomer generaton (1957-64) who didn’t even become draft age eligible at the earliest until just before the fall of Saigon, I’d just like to say our group was pretty sick of the early boomer self-promoters by at least 25 years ago (though to be fair, a lot of the ones “leading” the early boomers (1946-57) in the late 60s and early 70s were actually pre-boomers — as is, for that matter, John Kerry, who was born prior to the end of World War II).

  17. Lynxx Pherrett Avatar
    Lynxx Pherrett

    It really would be better if, instead of Vietnam, Kerry talked about his legislative leadership. You know, the Kerry-Rudman-Hollings Budget Act and McCain-Kerry Campaign Finance Reform and…uh…and…uh…
    But, about the best the Kerry campaign has been able to do with his 20 years in the Senate is confuse him with Bob Kerrey and claim he was vice chairman of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence.
    Vietnam is part of this election for two reasons.
    1. The anti-war movement spent months and millions of dollars on the ‘Iraq quagmire is another Vietnam’ canard. That includes “Vietnam was over before I was =born=” campus crowd.
    2. Kerry relies on four months commanding a swift boat in Vietnam not as an example of his leadership, but as almost the sole example of his leadership abilities.
    Anybody really think he wants to talk about his leadership in Vietnam Vets Against the War, where he helped ensure the eventual communist takeovers in Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia?
    [“What’s the diff between Korea and Vietnam, I’d like to know, other than in Vietnam we let the commies win?” One of the differences is that we let people like John Kerry get their way on the latter.]
    Or his two years as Massachusetts Lieutenant Governor under Michael Dukakis?
    Hell, even during his Senate career, many of his “accomplishments” seem to have dealt with playing kissy-face with communist regimes in Southeast Asia and South America.
    Or maybe the Kerry campaign should talk about the first half of the US-Iraq war, where if Kerry had gotten his way, Kuwait would still be the 19th Province of Iraq.
    Vietnam is a main point of discussion because Kerry is the Dem’s presidential candidate. Had they picked nearly anybody else, there would be no Vietnam Veterans for Truth because nobody gives a damn who is the junior Senator from Massachusetts. That should be evident from the fact that Kerry had been telling his ‘Christmas in Cambodia’ story for something over 25 years without it ever being seriously challenged.

  18. toad Avatar
    toad

    Oh God, I second the motion that it’s a minority of boomers that are in the “everything is Viet Nam” group. Those “self-serving” pendantic left-wing assholes have made their living by living in the past and they’ve tainted a whole generation. I was born in 1945 and until the rise of the internet and blogs there seems to have been no other boomer voice but thiers in the media. I’ve tried to do the “best revenge is living well” and ignore and avoid the bastards but I have to love it when the younger generation gives the the figuartive finger.

  19. Andrea Harris Avatar
    Andrea Harris

    Well, the Vietnam-heads commenting here are only illustrating what Meep said: for a certain loudmouthed segment of Boomers and their many fans, Vietnam is just another name for My Head Is So Far Up My Keister That I Can’t Even Comprehend What I Read. I especially love the dorks chiding Meep for “ignoring history.” I’ll toss a clue out to you folks: Meep isn’t the one who is “ignoring history.”
    By the way, I was born in 1963. I remember how my mother, who worked for the draft board in Miami and got to see lots of guys sent off to Vietnam, used to complain about how she hated her job. Do I get my Vietnamhead Club decoder ring now?

  20. dick Avatar
    dick

    I think the Vietnam War is a big deal on the blogs for several reasons. Kerry’s emphasis on his service is one. That seems to be his sole basis for wanting to be president.
    Kerry’s testimony against the military fighting in Vietnam which helped prolong that war and probably resulted in the death of many and definitely resulted in the torture of prisoners.
    Kerry’s rehashing of his “band of brothers” spiel and all that entails. Especially the film shown at the convention where Kerry and his men re-enacted the fights that he got his medals for only a couple of days after they happened for his 8MM camera. Weren’t the battles already happening enough to justify his political career so that he had to re-enact them for posterity?
    Kerry’s total lack of doing anything since the war so that his whole campaign is based on that war.
    The MSM doing the same slanted reporting in the Iraq war that they did in the Vietnam War to the extent that they fed the anti-war protestors the lies that permitted them to spit on the military returning from Vietnam. Today they are reporting only the casualties and none of the other news of what is really going on in Iraq – and they are for the most part reporting it from the Green Zone in Baghdad. They are reporting without even visiting what they are reporting about. I still remember the MSM reporting about how all of Baghdad was being destroyed by bombs and shooting and the same day an Iraqi blogger was posting photos of the businesses open all over Baghdad and the traffic on the freeways and no bombs in sight. Also the reports about Paul Bremer leaving without making a speech at the same time as CNN was broadcasting the speech Paul Bremer had given when he left Iraq. This is the same thing they did in Vietnam when they reported the Tet offensive as a defeat while even the North Vietnamese generals admitted that they were ready to surrender until the MSM reported what they did.
    These are a few reasons not to forget Vietnam. The lessons learned there should not be forgotten. The Gen-Xers will sooner or later learn that everything does not happen for the first time. What is going on with the media now is what has gone on with the media for over 40 years that I know of. I was stationed in DC during the Kennedy presidency and I read the raw intelligence that came in then. The media was wrong in those days in what it said and it is still not reporting the whole truth. How can these young people make their decision on slanted news stories alone. It is a good thing we have blogs today so that the rest of the story can be told but we still need to remember what happened then. It could happen again if we are not careful.

  21. Demosophist Avatar
    Demosophist

    John:
    Again (and I wonder why this even needs to be said at all) generational chauvinism is very very silly. Of all the ways one could conceivably denigrate people by virtue of a group they happen to belong to, doing so by virtue of their generation is about the absolute dumbest. Characterizing people by skin color is probably more valid, because you’d at least capture sensitivity to sunlight. Sorry, I know you’re probably a fairly smart person, and even Andrew Sullivan has been sucked in by this one, but a spade is a spade.
    Incidentally I have criticized certain members of my generation for being unable to let go of their “coming of age” experience, but I would no more say that’s true of my entire generation than I’d say it’s true of yours. The mere fact that our coming of age experiences are different doesn’t mean it’s any more valid for you to hang onto yours. I realize there’s something of an ironic dilemma if your coming of age experience is, itself, anti-historical.
    Andrea:

    Well, the Vietnam-heads commenting here are only illustrating what Meep said: for a certain loudmouthed segment of Boomers and their many fans, Vietnam is just another name for My Head Is So Far Up My Keister That I Can’t Even Comprehend What I Read.

    Well, at least you acknowledge you’re talking about a subgroup, but are you shouting at echos inside your head? I can’t find anyone in this thread who equates Vietnam with Iraq, as, for instance, does Joe Klein. Have I missed someone? At most we’re talking about the value of comparing them. Please tell me you know the difference.

  22. Tom (American Voter) Avatar
    Tom (American Voter)

    Some idiot has posted a file with all the home addresses (plus some phone numbers) fo all the RNC candidates.
    http://dc.indymedia.org/newswire/display/103836/index.php
    It contains threats like, “The earth is not dying, it is being killed. And those that are killing it have names and addresses.” and “Our objectives are to:
    – Supply anti-RNC groups with data on the delegates to use in whatever way they see fit.”
    For those that lived through the 60s is this what is was really like?

  23. Jeff Jarvis Avatar
    Jeff Jarvis

    Tom: I was actually thinking about redacting that address so as not to bew unwitting accomplices to who-knows-what. But I see that the page now brings up nothing.

  24. Tom (American Voter) Avatar
    Tom (American Voter)

    Yea that was stupid of me. Since it’s harmless now, please feel free to leave it up as a lesson not to do dumb stuff like that again.
    I must say, if this where we are headed, I am gaining new appreciation for why some people don’t want to go down this road again.
    I need to go to bed.

  25. Demosophist Avatar
    Demosophist

    Hey, I was clean. I wore really goofy purple shirts and sandals (no socks). But I was clean.

    OK, I think I remember you from the Gold Creek Festival near Seattle, on the same night as the first moon landing. You weren’t that clean. Nice shirt, though.

  26. Mike G Avatar
    Mike G

    Born in 1961. Politically conscious by the time of Nixon vs. McGovern. Pretty-to-extremely liberal most of that time. And even I stopped giving a shit about Vietnam by the mid-80s or so. Four more years of Bush’s decidedly mixed record is not, I think, too high a price to pay to shut John Kerry and his ilk the fuck up forever.

  27. Andrea Harris Avatar
    Andrea Harris

    Demosophist: I’m sorry, I forgot I must use simple, short phrases. What I meant was you (and some others) read Meep’s comment, and misunderstood her/him to say that there was no need to know anything about history. But that was not what Meep was saying. Meep was saying that many of the people who are of the generation known as “Baby Boomers” have latched onto the “The Vietnam War Was The Worst Thing Ever” idea and made it the most important concept in their universe. Meep was also implying that the way these Baby Boomers understood the Vietnam War was wrong. Meep was also pointing out that there is another generation of people who are younger than the Baby Boomers, for whom the Vietnam War is not central to their lives, because they grew up after the Vietnam War had been over for a long time.
    There. Did that help?

  28. John Avatar
    John

    Demosophist:
    My problem is only in part with the early boomers and their self-promotional nature. The fact is, people in all generations spawn their fair share of self promoters.
    The problem was the oldest of the group came of age in the mid-1960s, at a time that the media was just discovering the power of the “young generation” and puffed up the most self-promoting of the group (along with some of the pre-boomers like Abbie Hoffman) into representatives of their entire generation.
    Since it was the demographers, social scientists and media who made them into the spokespersons of their generation, that meant that in the late 1960s they were supposed to be the spokesperson for me — who at age 10 at the time was in a relatively apolitical mode in elementary school — and for people born as late as 1963 or ’64, who in the late 60s were not likely to be shouting political slogans or taking over campus buildings at their local nursery school the way the older boomers were at their college campuses.
    But for the past 35 years, what the early boomers have done (not just in politics but in other social and economic situations) has been defined as representing all boomers, even those that conceivable could be the oldest sons or daughters of parents born in the first year of the same generation. Thirty-five years of having these people being put forward as generational representatives for those of us in the latter half of the boom has left me and others I know with a wish they would just shut up and go away, and I think there are a lot of Gen-Xers out there who have similar sympathies.

  29. Sandy P Avatar
    Sandy P

    As another tail-ender said, IIRC, “We were invited to the party but all we get is to clean up.”
    Kerry matters, that man is a bringer of despair and death.
    He did it to his band of brothers, the Vietnamese, and if he becomes president, he’ll do it to the armed forces again and Iraq will be even worse than Nam wa/is.
    It’s bad enough the 70s fashions are back, do we really need the malaise? 25 years ago, an appeaser was in office when the black turbans attacked our embassy.
    We have finally begun to engage the vermin, they’re months away from the bomb, and a part of America wants to relive its glory days because it’s all about them. Time to start the clean-up, we Jones Generation. Send them and their impossible-to-achieve utopian 100% perfect world dreams back to the 20th and 19th centuries, it’s not their war.
    I thought I was the only one, blaming the 60s boomers. I really wish they would tune out now. I know I’m sick of listening to them.
    Jeff, this is my response to your reply to dailypundit:
    Jeff, I do like your blog, but I am a tail-end boomer.
    Which generation started lowering the level of discourse?
    Which generation really doesn’t like standards and started bringing things down to the lowest common denominator? hey, baby, if it feels good…after all, who are you or I to judge?
    It’s all about The Me, and The Me is now running the joint and has been for a decade.
    You’re in the biz, do you think you might have helped? And now you look around surprised at what you’ve wrought?
    I have not, do not and will not excuse you, this is part of the election. We’ll find out if you 60s boomers went too far.

  30. Person of Choler Avatar
    Person of Choler

    John Kerry is the reason that Vietnam is again a hot topic. His service therein, such as it was, is the only qualification for the presidency that he vouchsafes to present to us. Some historical lessons from Vietnam apply to the present war (does Meep think there is one?).
    The most important of these lessons is how biased and arrogant mass media combined with opportunistic pacifism (such as Kerry’s post war behavior) can undermine a Democracy’s will to fight.
    That is some history we can’t afford to forget in the present war, which, unlike Vietnam, might be for keeps.
    Big Media is whooping for John the Equivocator as somebody capable of leading this war. His past indicates that he isn’t and his Vietnam flip flops are a large part of what makes him suspect.
    Therefore, this particular boomer is mighty happy that the Vietnam hot button has been pressed one more time.

  31. meep Avatar
    meep

    Actually, y’all, I was born in 1974 and I do have a relative who went to Vietnam for over a year as a Marine when he was 17 and came back hooked on cocaine. And told me some pretty horrific stories.
    But then, I had a grandfather who also was a Marine in WWII and burned Japanese soldiers alive with a flamethrower.
    And before that, there was the Civil War. I’m from the South, and we know stories a-plenty of the atrocities of both sides.
    So… what was the relevance of Vietnam again? That war is hell? I knew that. I know more history than most of the whiny boomers (I know more than my mother does, but then, she doesn’t whine…she kinda gave that whole hippie-thing a pass). Hell, I could tell you things about the English Civil War, but I doubt anybody’s interested.
    Let’s get back to American history. We’ve got the Civil War. In 1864, Lincoln was up for re-election. Lincoln had no military experience at all except for being commander-in-chief during our nation’s bloodiest war. Who was up against him? General McClellan, who had a “peace with honor” strategy (oooh, sounds familiar). Remember McClellan? He was the general that Lincoln fired for being too cautious. I’m sure his guys loved him, because he didn’t put their lives at much risk (compared to what Grant did, at least), but he didn’t really win anything.
    So…. what does this got to do with anything? McClellan had been a general =in=the=war= that was still going on…. and still he lost. (And he was a popular figure — people didn’t see him as a failed general so much. There were many people against “Lincoln’s War” in the North, and wanted it over.)
    The numbers are here:
    http://www.nps.gov/liho/1864/1864e.htm
    So, let’s bring it back to today. Kerry was a very low-level officer in Vietnam, and was there for only 4 months. Then he came back and testified in front of Congress that systematic atrocities were being committed.
    I’m supposed to get =what= out of that? I’ve actually ignored his Vietnam-blathering, because it will in no way make me safe now. I’m a 30-yr-old mom living in New York City. Vietnam means nothing more to me than any other war in this nation’s history. Why should Vietnam be more important to me than Korea? or Iraq parts I & II?
    I want to see this guy’s records… Senate records, that is. Bush’s political records are out there for all of us to see – we know what he’s done these past 4 years. Kerry talks a good game, but I don’t see any proof from his 20 years in the Senate that he has any point-of-view other than say what the people want to hear. The only stances I’ve seen him stick to adamantly are for abortion rights and against any federal laws banning gay marriage — those aren’t exactly top priorities for me. Everything else is a wash.
    I think the boomers =really= need to get over themselves. Yes, people died in Vietnam, a seemingly pointless war after the fact, but we also had guys dying in the Spanish-American War, which also looked like American Imperialism. Do you hear guys going on about the Spanish-American War? Not Americans, at least (those in Cuba probably have something to say about it). Vietnam is pretty unimportant when stacked up against the World Wars, the Cold War as a whole, and definitely when stacked up against the American Civil War and the American Revolutionary War. Get a grip people, and gain some perspective.
    I’m willing to give Kerry a pass for any stupid things he did or said as a young man, though I understand people who suffered consequences of that would still be bitter. I’m more incensed as to how he’s used Vietnam as a prop into his old age (yes, 60 is =old= territory.) What’s that phrase? “Move on”? I live in =today=, where the danger is from Islamofascists, not Commies hiding under my bed. This is not the same as Vietnam. Just as Vietnam was not the same as the attack on Japan.

  32. meep Avatar
    meep

    Oh, and I guarantee that as the boomers die off, we will not be hearing about Vietnam. People have very short memories, it seems, as no one can bother themselves to remember anything useful about the Civil War other than it was about slavery… or states’ rights… or something. Even the Southerners don’t remember as well any more.
    It’s actually a scary time for us actuarial types, because we see a huge problem coming. I hope the Boomers actually did take care of themselves, because many will probably have to work into their 70s. The Medicare deficit is going to be hitting soon, and Social Security will start to be a drain on federal revenues in a very short time. Too bad that too many people had kids late, and then only had a few. Social Security was a more sustainable idea in my grandparents’ day – they who had gotten married at 18, and had lots of kids (I’ve got lots of relatives from families of 10 kids.) Vietnam is peanuts compared to the demographic disaster coming our way. So perhaps the Vietnam issue will go off the radar because senior entitlements are going to loom way larger.
    That’s called perspective, y’all. You think that gen-X apathy over Vietnam is generational warfare? Wait till gen-X, Y, Z, omega, etc have to subsidize their very senior parents/grandparents as SocSec benefits are cut and payroll taxes increased (as well as normal retirement age… it’s no longer 65, you know — the mass of boomers will have an NRA of 66. For people born in 1960 and after, the age for full SocSec benefits now is 67).
    Anyway, yeah, I guess I’m uneducated because I can’t ponder the deep mysteries of Vietnam, man. What a drag.

  33. Tom Grey - Liberty Dad Avatar
    Tom Grey – Liberty Dad

    Which is morally superior: War

  34. Sydney T Avatar
    Sydney T

    We baby boomers are going to decide this election, and probably the next several as well. We also control about 75% of the wealth in this country and will for the considerable future. That makes the fact that we are slowly losing our edge and our minds, acceptable. If we want to mull over Viet Nam one last time, it’s yur job to figure out where the lessons are, and improve upon it.

  35. Chris Warren Avatar
    Chris Warren

    “I wore really goofy purple shirts and sandals (no socks).”
    postpixplzkthxbye :)

  36. meep Avatar
    meep

    No one group is going to “decide” the election. Whoever gets out to vote will do that. One could claim that blacks are going to decide the election – if they don’t show up for polls because they hate both white men of massive privelege, that will have an effect. One could claim veterans will decide the election – if they are annoyed at Bush being in the Air National Guard or annoyed at Kerry’s antiwar activities and swing one way or another. Or one could claim “security moms” are the big vote. Or Jews in Miami could be the ones making the deciding votes.
    I really doubt there’s any “boomer consensus” politics-wise — not as much of a consensus as in certain subgroups like Jews and blacks, who overwhelmingly swing to one party. The boomers aren’t a “base” per se for any political party. Some people, like my parents, aren’t swayed by any Vietnam rhetoric one way or another. Even my Ma’s cousin who went to Vietnam spends more time talking about current events than Vietnam. Heck, it’s been a while since I last heard him mention it, and he’s a real talker.
    I don’t think you’ll see boomer political consensus until their senior years. When money’s at stake, all ideological bets are off. Whoever is for cutting benefits is going to get whacked. Thing is, in absolute numbers, there are more children of boomers than boomers. And getting hit with doubled payroll taxes might be enough of a goose to get this group to vote to cut benefits. Again, follow the money. It’s probably a more sure predictor of votes by generation.

  37. Rachel Avatar
    Rachel

    Jeff, you’re wrongly belittling Meep. I was born in 1969. My father served in Vietnam. I know several Vietnamese immigrants, one whose father survived Danang. NONE of this should refer to who our next President should be because we are dealing with TODAY. Vietnam is solely a political platform for and by “old school” types because mentally we equate this war with Vietnam (but not Korea, WWI, WWII…)

  38. MaB Avatar
    MaB

    “Tom Grey – Liberty Dad”
    Please read the Pentagon Papers. The only way to WIN in Vietnam would have been to kill every human being there who desired independence from French re-colonization and the US client in Saigon. That would REQUIRE the US to commit genocide, if the devastation to the land and toll on non-combatants don’t already fit that catagory. The US invasion of South Vietnam and attacks on Laos and Cambodia set the stage for the nightmare of Indochina after the US pullout, including the mobilization of support for the Khmer Rouge. Those who whitewash our crimes in Southeast Asia are at moral level similar to Holocaust deniers.

  39. rosignol Avatar
    rosignol

    Come to think of it, I do hope that in 2035, someone not yet born writes, “The war on terror was over before I was born.” We can only hope.
    Amen.