The media pundit's pundit. Written by NYC insider Jeff Jarvis, BuzzMachine covers news, media, journalism, and politics.
What’s worse than Ann Coulter? An editor, of course
: USA Today hired conservative scorpion Ann Coulter to write about the Democratic National Convention and — guess what? — they got Ann Coulter. And it bothered them. So they killed the column. Of course, the column is now online. But what’s even better is that the editor’s comments are there, too. Boy, editors can look like oafs:
Coulter: As for the pretty girls, I can only guess that it
USA today also hired Michael Moore to cover the Republican convention. Think his article will get axed too?
If they’re going to have Michael Moore cover the RNC they better sure as hell have Ann Coulter cover the DNC. It’s the only possible way of providing balance. In fact, much as I dislike Coulter, she’s still not vile and nasty enough to equal Moore. I’m not sure if there even is a conservative equivalent (Michael Savage maybe?). Having Jonah Goldberg and Michael Moore do it is like pitting Ann Coulter against, I don’t know, Joe Lieberman?
The Ann Coulter column mixed with the editor’s comments is probably the single funniest thing I’ve ever seen in my life.
Heard they replaced Ms. Coulter with Jonah Goldberg. He is funny in a non skin-your-enemies-with-a-blunt-object way. A good choice, methinks.
“she’s still not vile and nasty enough to equal Moore”
Are you for real? This is the woman who said we should bomb, the middle east, kill all their leaders, and convert them all to Christianity. She wasn’t kidding. She’s defended the remark since.
Show something Moore has said which is half as vile.
“she’s still not vile and nasty enough to equal Moore”
Are you for real? This is the woman who said we should bomb, the middle east, kill all their leaders, and convert them all to Christianity. She wasn’t kidding. She’s defended the remark since.
Show something Moore has said which is half as vile.
hah. the second link is classic. Coulter WROTE this column … and refers to herself in the third person as “witty” and “vivacious”.
where was the editor at Human Events?!?
Bob,
We DID bomb Afghanistan.
We DID kill their leaders.
And in the open society they have right now, some of them ARE converting to Christianity.
Everything she wanted to happen, happened. Sheesh.
And I agree – reading her column with the editor’s remarks in it was hilarious. I have to wonder if she wanted it that way from the very beginning.
> Are you for real? This is the woman who said we should bomb, the middle east, kill all their leaders, and convert them all to Christianity.
That’s plan B.
Plan A is for them to kill us until we convert to Islam.
What is a plan C that blocks plan A? Note, said plan has to work without their cooperation – they prefer plan A.
Until we have such a plan C, the choices are Plan A and Plan B.
Okay, dreamer. I challenge you to find something from Moore more vile than this: “My pretty-girl allies stick out like a sore thumb amongst the corn-fed, no make-up, natural fiber, no-bra needing, sandal-wearing, hirsute, somewhat fragrant hippie chick pie wagons they call ‘women’ at the Democratic National Convention.”
She wasn’t referring to Afdghanistan; she was referring to ALL Islamic nations; futhermore, I’m not aware of any systematic plan by the United States (even under *this* administration) to convert everyone in Afghanistan to Christianity.
What utter nonsense.
Andy, your attempt to fit any appropriate respoinse the US might take into plan B is equally nonsensical. Where do you guys learn your Foreign policy? Bob Jones University?
Glad neither of you guys is running the country; Bush/Cheney is bad enough.
Michael Moore vile statements:
1. His immediate post-September 11th statement which strongly implied that he thought it would have been okay to kill all those people if they were likely people who’d voted for Bush. (Which he later attempted to disappear down the memory hole).
2. His speech before an audience in England in which he said that 9/11 wouldn’t have happened if there had been black passengers on the plane, as black people “don’t show anybody any respect”.
3. His recent post on his website in which he praised the terrorists who are killing our soldiers and Iraqi civilians calling them “Iraqi minutemen”.
4. The same post, in which he said that no other country should help us in Iraq so as many Americans can die there as possible.
5. Ad nauseum statements in books and public appearances in which he claims that all Americans are stupid, violent, irgnorant, illiterate, etc. etc.
That’s just for starters. Check out Moorelies.com, mooreexposed.com, and others for more.
Even the tiny bit you (JJ) quoted is hilariously stupid. How can you possibly know that something is “NOT FUNNY” if you admit that you “DON’T GET IT” in the first place? First get the joke explained to you, then determine whether it would have been funny if you had gotten it.
Dreamer, please provide direct cites and links for your Moore quotes. Thank you.
Typically stupid of editors. No-humor waste of spaces, except for the odd gem who does his/her job well.
I like the idea of sending Coulter to Dems and Moore to REpubs convention. I remember seeing years ago an ad that Franken would cover the convetions, this was still when he lampooned everyone. Would love to have seen it, but alas….
Chris Pierson:
google.com
This is a tiresome fight that’s been had a zillion times, and is one of the main reasons I comment on blogs so rarely anymore.
It’s out there. Check out the anti-Moore sites I talked about too. I don’t have the time to do research for someone else on something which is part of the public record, and which a reasonably informed person could easily find out about. If you’re truly interested, I’m sure you know how to find things on the internet yourself. I’m at work, and I no longer see the point in wasting five minutes googling something just so I can win a pissy little meaningless argument with someone.
Thanks,
Eric
P.S. It’s “Deamer” not “Dreamer”
If you make a claim, you should back it up. I don’t believe Moore said what you say he said. I believe you’re misquoting him or conveninetly ignoring context that mitigates the statement. Moore is clearly not anti-troop. Anyone who saw F9/11 would know better than to claim that.
And apologies for getting your name wrong. Must have been a Freudian slip of the eye. ;-)
Chris:
Another possibility is that Moore smoothed over his more anti-American, anti-troop sentiments so as to make “Fahrenheit 9/11” more palatable to the American people who he thinks are the stupidest people on the planet.
The fact that his anti-troop sentiments are not on obvious display in “F9/11” is only evidence of the kind of disingenuousness at which he excels. He is a vile, vile man.
Dennis: Moore is sympathetic to the grunts of the world, whether they work for the US military or factories about to close down. He even has sympathy for the grunts of the Michigan militia.
I’m not uncritical of Moore’s exaggerations and ego trips. But he is not a hateful guy. Not anywhere near as hateful as Coulter is. They’re both clowns, in their own ways, but Moore is intentionally funny, at least.
>”The fact that his anti-troop sentiments are not on obvious display in “F9/11″ is only evidence of the kind of disingenuousness at which he excels.”
Wow, John Ashcroft couldn’t have used better logic. The absence of evidence of a crime is only evidence that a crime has been committed.
Hate to be a narrow-minded, unpatriotic slob, but I agree with Chris Pierson.
I would say that Moore has fattened himself and his wallet on the backs of the grunts of the world.
The man manipulates and lies for his own financial gain, all the while using the grunts time after time to display some sort of Anti-American partisan political message. And people like Chris will still defend him asking for sources when Moore is criticized, all the while accepting Moore’s assertions as fact.
2 “all the while” statements in one paragraph. That’s terrible. Should have read that again before posting.
I really don’t believe that Hitler killed any Jews during World War II. People who say so are conveniently ignoring context.
As to Moore’s sympathy for the grunts of the world, just ask somebody that used to work for him.
Chris Pierson, you’re one clueless moron.
I got your back Eric.
Chris — I will presume you can google an actual quote.
“If someone did this [9/11] to get back at Bush, then they did so by killing thousands of people who DID NOT VOTE for him! Boston, New York, D.C., and the planes’ destination of California — these were places that voted AGAINST Bush!” — Michael Moore On 9/12/2001
“The Iraqis who have risen up against the occupation are not “insurgents” or “terrorists” or “The Enemy.” They are the REVOLUTION, the Minutemen, and their numbers will grow — and they will win.”
“I’m sorry, but the majority of Americans supported this war once it began and, sadly, that majority must now sacrifice their children until enough blood has been let that maybe — just maybe — God and the Iraqi people will forgive us in the end.”
“I would like to apologize for referring to George W. Bush as a ‘deserter.’ What I meant to say is that George W. Bush is a deserter, an election thief, a drunk driver, a WMD liar, and a functional illiterate. And he poops his pants”
“(Americans) are possibly the dumbest people on the planet … in thrall to conniving, thieving, smug pr*cks. We Americans suffer from an enforced ignorance. We don
My pretty-girl allies stick out like a sore thumb…
Huh? WTF? She thinks she’s a member of some coalition of the pretty? Ann really oughta stay on her anti-psychotic meds. The only thing sticking out like a sore thumb on that leather-skinned, stringy, old bird carcass is her adams apple. (Warning!! Graphic image not suitable for children or folks with weak hearts) And it ain’t pretty.
Kim:
Thanks. I poked around for a bit too. The problem is, a lot of the most disgusting quotes are form his website, and that stuff tends to “disappear” if you know what I mean.
But anyway, why I got depressed and gave up after a couple of minutes, is that what happens now is they explain how those quotes are all taken out of context/were satire/a demon possessed his body/he’s a victim of a right-wing smear campaign etc. etc. His fans are like cult members. I’ve given up trying to reason with them.
I know what you mean. He took everything off his site. I googled it. Moore is supposed to be on Bill O’Reilly’s show tonight. I haven’t seen his show in a while but I will tonight. Knowing Moore he’ll be a no show.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,96207,00.html
Its all a plot I’m sure of it. Everything.
http://mappa.mundi.net/cartography/Palace/images/tryster02.gif
> Andy, your attempt to fit any appropriate respoinse the US might take into plan B is equally nonsensical. Where do you guys learn your Foreign policy? Bob Jones University?
I’m not trying to fit anything.
I’m pointing out that they want to kill me.
Until that changes, any plan less effective than “kill them” is unsatisfactory.
I don’t care what they believe, I just want to block their plan A.
Andy:
How do you know they want to kill you?
the next generation will, rightfully, look back at this post and say, Ann who?
sadly they wont be saying the same thing about USA Today, who is dead wrong on this one.
>”Here at the Spawn of Satan convention in Boston, conservatives are deploying a series of covert signals to identify one another, much like gay men do. My allies are the ones wearing crosses or American flags. The people sporting shirts emblazoned with the “F-word” are my opponents.” —- Ann Coulter
“Spawn of Satan,” ugly girls? C’mon. Ann Coulter is not a serious commentator — no informed, reasonable person actually take her seriously. So what’s the big deal about?
> How do you know they want to kill you?
They’ve said “convert or die” repeatedly, they’ve yet to say that they’ve changed their mind, and they’ve tried.
If that should not be enough, please describe what would be, and why that standard is preferable to mine.
Andy Freeman:
If that’s true, that they want to kill you, then you have every right to defend yourself and protect your family. But, those are serious allegations that shouldn’t be made lightly.
So how do you know they want to kill you? What convinced you of that fact? And, who precisely are “they”? And when and where did they say “convert or die”?
> So how do you know they want to kill you? What convinced you of that fact? And, who precisely are “they”? And when and where did they say “convert or die”?
Your turn – explain why you think that I’m wrong. (I think that you’d have been better off arguing that my response was inappropriate, but it’s your argument.)
Is the WTC still standing? Is Al Qeada being mistranslated?
Andy:
I never said you’re wrong
Guys, “Michael” and Chris Pierson are trolls. Anyone who questions the existence of widely-quoted statements by Michael Moore and various Islamic terrorist leaders is simply pulling your chain. If I were you I’d ignore the both of them. If nothing else, it will drive them nuts.
Good example of the reading comprehension of Moore’s detractors:
“we all know take no disrespect from anybody.”
becomes
“don’t show anybody any respect.”
> Right now, I lack sufficient information to form an opinion either way.
Really?
> Your opinion I heard, now I
It seems to me that the virtue of a publication with an editor is that you can click on it knowing that you’re not going to have to wade through useless shrieking crap like that Coulter column.
In other words, I think Jeff has highlighted the very example that disproves his point!
When they begin the “kill us or convert us to islam” spiel you know they’ve hit rock-bottom and are trying to drum up fear.
So WTC isn’t there, so that’s evidence that they want to kill all of us. So a building that no longer exists in Northern Ireland would be evidence that IRA want to “kill or convert every protestant”. I presume you’ll all support England’s nuking of Dublin.
All this discussion of Moore and I saw this.
Fron Drudge’s transcript of interview between O’Reilly and Moore.
“M: Right, I would not sacrifice my child to secure Fallujah and you would?
O: I would sacrifice myself.
M: You wouldn
Since Moore has admitted making things up and been caught doing so, the only take-away from that transcript is that Moore can write a self-serving dialog.
Yeah, no big deal. I tore down a woodshed in my yard a couple of weeks ago, and that wasn’t a big deal either. What’s a building more or less? Why make a federal case out of it?
F*****g idiot.
Whoa! Language!
It blows my mind that some of you are still unable to comprehend that there’s a difference between “SOME people in the Middle East hate us” and “ALL people in the Middle East hate us”. C’mon, this is rudimentary logic we’re talking about here. Would it help if I drew you a Venn diagram?
A question: why are we rebuilding Iraq and helping its people thrive if “they” all want to “kill us” and “convert us to Islam”?
The more Liberals are upset by Anne Coulter, the more money she makes. Ditto for the Cons and Moore.
The power of indifference etc.
Andrea: If this is a right wing site, then you have a point. But I thought Jeff Jarvis was a “liberal” (albeit a hawkish one who rants quite a bit about “us” vs. “them”) who is leaning toward voting for Kerry (if he can just bring himself to stop slandering Democrats).
Lot of cursing with the “F” word tonight by the right wing trolls. It’s very disturbing. I’ve seen the gerund, and the plural noun forms, from both male and female right wing nut jobs in this thread and others.
Jeff, like you I am worried about your son who visits here seeing this filth. Then there’s the FCC, who would just love to regulate blogs.
I am glad Jeff, nay, I am relieved to know that you will shortly be defending your blog by taking your usual action: banning those who would smear the “f” word all over your blog.
Ah, the level of political discourse today.
And the Coulter column with editor notes is, by far, the funniest thing I’ve read this year. Good find, Jeff.
And the Coulter column with editor notes is, by far, the funniest thing I’ve read this year.
Crikey. Read much?
Anything by P. J. O’Rourke is actually funny–as opposed to viciously sacrastic–and far funnier than Coulter.
I almost felt sorry for Coulter after reading the editor’s comments. They revealed the same lack of awareness shown in hiring her in the first place.
The column was classic Coulter. It should not have been a surprise to the editors, whom one would expect to be reasonably well-informed about national politics.
At least she didn’t call them “girly boys.”
Andy freeman:
>”If you’re not satisfied by the common knowledge on this point, there’s nothing that I can write that will satisfy you.”
You said, “They’re want to kill [you].” All I asked was: How you know? You said,
> It blows my mind that some of you are still unable to comprehend that there’s a difference between “SOME people in the Middle East hate us” and “ALL people in the Middle East hate us”.
Feel free to identify said “some” by name, complete with quotes supporting the “ALL” accusation. (Hint: “they” does not mean “all”.)
It’s nice to hear that there is no bear in the woods in Michael’s world.
However, does he really want to say that there’s some dispute as to whether they’ve said “convert or die” in mine? Does he want to dispute whether they have attacked Americans?
And, if they have, is it really paranoid to point that out?
Mike wrote: “I would say that Moore has fattened himself and his wallet on the backs of the grunts of the world.
“The man manipulates and lies for his own financial gain, all the while using the grunts time after time to display some sort of Anti-American partisan political message. And people like Chris will still defend him asking for sources when Moore is criticized, all the while accepting Moore’s assertions as fact.”
I have criticized Moore to leftist acquaintances for getting his facts wrong. Furthermore, a part of me will never forgive him for a column he wrote in the summer of 2000 arguing that lefties should not worry about the Supreme Court but vote their “hearts and dreams” (i.e., for Nader). So you’re plain wrong about people like me accepting Moore’s assertions as fact.
I viewed F9/11 as a personal essay–and a very well made one, considering the size and complexity of the subject. I’m an intelligent person who can think for himself. I don’t need Michael Moore to tell me how to think. I tend to agree with a lot of his arguments in the film–mainly that Bush was an unfortunate person to be in office on 9/11, because of his history of incompetence, dishonesty, cronyism and fundamental illegitimacy; that the war in Iraq was the wrong war and we were lied to in order to have it; that the Bush administration has exploited terror to hold onto power in order to serve the corporate class who put him there to serve them–but most of these points I came to myself before viewing the film.
I think it’s puerile to call a political point of view you disagree with “anti-American.” If you’re justified in saying Moore’s “partisanship” is anti-American, then I think it’s also fair to call any partisanship, left or right, anti-American. Right-wing Americans like to pretend they equate Republicanism with Americanism; in fact, contemporary Republicans are the most factional, America-destroying partisans I’ve ever seen, willing to drag the nation into the gutter to impeach a twice popularly elected president against the nation’s will, to criminalize the counting of ballots, to disenfranchise Democrats of color, to attempt to legislate Republicans into a permanent majority, though they make up a minority of the population. Ironic, considering the party’s roots, that today’s Republicans, like latter-day Ciceros and Caesars wrapped into one, are all about destroying the Union allegedly to save it.
If you want to criticize Moore for getting “fat” off the grunts, why not also criticize Coulter, Limbaugh, O’Reilly, et al., who also get fat and rich (and drunk and stoned) off the suckers who tune them in and buy their books?
>
Andy Freeman:
I did a quick search on Google for
Dexter Westbrook: “I really don’t believe that Hitler killed any Jews during World War II. People who say so are conveniently ignoring context.”
Are you seriously comparing Moore’s punditry to Hitler’s genocide? I didn’t think so. But that is the flavor of Ann Coulter’s (and too much of right-wing) discourse.
Chris, I think they’re on the run.
Kim: About your quotes:
“If someone did this [9/11] to get back at Bush, then they did so by killing thousands of people who DID NOT VOTE for him! Boston, New York, D.C., and the planes’ destination of California — these were places that voted AGAINST Bush!” — Michael Moore On 9/12/2001
What is the problem with this quote? It says in effect what Jeff Jervis and a lot of people on these boards say, which is that 9/11 was against Americans regardless of whom they voted for, not just against Bush.
“The Iraqis who have risen up against the occupation are not “insurgents” or “terrorists” or “The Enemy.” They are the REVOLUTION, the Minutemen, and their numbers will grow — and they will win.”
I don’t see the problem with this quote either. Did the Bush regime impose an occupation on Iraq or not? Whose country is Iraq anyway?
“I’m sorry, but the majority of Americans supported this war once it began and, sadly, that majority must now sacrifice their children until enough blood has been let that maybe — just maybe — God and the Iraqi people will forgive us in the end.”
I do have a problem with the implication in this quote that Americans “must” sacrifice their children so “God and the Iraqi people will forgive us.” This was not an intelligent thing to say.
“I would like to apologize for referring to George W. Bush as a ‘deserter.’ What I meant to say is that George W. Bush is a deserter, an election thief, a drunk driver, a WMD liar, and a functional illiterate. And he poops his pants”
Ha ha! Good one, Michael! (And mostly true!)
“(Americans) are possibly the dumbest people on the planet … in thrall to conniving, thieving, smug pr*cks. We Americans suffer from an enforced ignorance. We don
Michael, It’s unfortunate that they probably won’t be back, as they have the excuse that the blog has moved on. Have you been checking out this blog for a while? Is the ratio of winger to lefty always this lopsided here?
Chris Pierson’s post at July 28, 2004 11:55 AM
[applause]Excellent post[/applause]
Is the ratio of winger to lefty always this lopsided here?
Unfortunately, yes – despite the fact that Jeff’s a “liberal.”
Theodore Roosevelt said, “To announce that there should be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, it is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American people.”
The good thing about this blog is that it truly seems fairly represented and I at least see it as a place to debate the right and left, with Jeff getting it in the neck from right and left. It goes in swells, sometimes right outnumbers left then other days are like this thread when left seems to be bigger.
Most blogs just pander to their core, so making them very boring.
But both right and left here have proclaimed big drama queen exits (more right than left I would say) where they say they’re not returning because the shrine of W. has not been worshipped enough or Stern is a cancer and should be removed from all airwaves (to Jeff’s credit he’s banged on about this so long and infuriated so many).
Chris Pierson:
I’ve been checking this blog for about two months and, yes, it’s always had a lot of rabid right-wingers. That’s why I keep coming back — it’s much more fun. Beside, the right-wing wackos on this blog are strident morons, and very easy to befuddle.
> I don
Remember Andy, its Americans they fear and mistrust. As for the enemy – nothing but objectivity and empathy. You’ll never see them on your side of any issue. America is the problem, not terrorism.
Chris – The “quotes” are Moore’s not mine.
“Or do you think it’s all right that we Americans are so ignorant”?
Would it be fair to call you ignorant since you didn’t know of these quotes? No, I don’t think so. I also do not believe my fellow Americans, be they left, right or center, are ignorant either. I do think Moore is a bullsh*t artist and an opportunist. He made a manipulative popcorn propaganda movie in order to effect the outcome of an American election. That should piss you off no matter who your voting for. What happened to Moores’ support for Nader? He wrote this letter in 2000.
http://www.ratical.org/co-globalize/RalphNader/MMooreNader.html
Nader wrote this letter to Moore because he won’t even return Nader’s calls.
http://www.votenader.org/why_ralph/index.php?cid=89
“Now you have declared in the June 24, 2004 issue of USA Today that you “hope to have a significant impact on the 4 to 6% who now say they are going to vote for Ralph” to vote for Kerry. Wow! That
“here’s a difference between “SOME people in the Middle East hate us” and “ALL people in the Middle East hate us”.”
No one said the latter. We’re talking about Islamofascists. Iraqis are trying to build a new democratic nation in spite of islamofasicsts funded by Iran and Syria blowing them up with car bombs.
“Good example of the reading comprehension of Moore’s detractors:
“we all know take no disrespect from anybody.”
becomes
“don’t show anybody any respect.”
Which doesn’t make the quote any less disgusting. Moore accuses the 9-11 plane victims of dying because they were white, and black people would have fought back. Moore seems to have forgotten about Flight 93, not to mention blaming the victims on the other planes. What a sleezebag.
“I don’t see the problem with this quote either. Did the Bush regime impose an occupation on Iraq or not? Whose country is Iraq anyway?”
You are so ignorant. Moore is praising the insurgents who are killing ordinary Iraqis and US troops with car bombs. He thinks they are the “resistance.” Iraq belongs to the normal Iraqis who are trying to build a democratic nation. We deposed their oppressor. We are occupying their country as long as needed to make sure they get on their feet. We are training their police and army to take on this job themselves.
You are certainly not on the side of the Iraqi people when you “don’t see a problem with this quote.”
God, you self-righteous ignorant pedantic left-wing trolls are so despicable.
Ditto on that Roosevelt quote.
Back to Ms. Coulter: just so much self-promotion. Each party to the relationship made their choices. While Ms. Coulter has cultivated a somewhat shrill persona, it was entirely within her capacity to, as many writers do, adapt her writing to the publication. She chose not to and freedom of the press belongs to they that own the press. She published to Clownhall instead of reaching the USAT market. So now she most be content with the bleating of the VRWCofB’s bleating about how one of their own is being picked on. That will generate some buzz, but not USAT buzz.
There is something rather smug about Ms. Coulter. Her reference to her “pretty girl allies” would seem to indicate she numbers herself amongst them. Yo! Sans the peroxide and make-up, she’s a chick with an adam’s-apple. She is in no position to feel superior.
Andy Freeman:
Our discussion has become a waste of time and must be closed. You
Yehudit: “You are so ignorant. Moore is praising the insurgents who are killing ordinary Iraqis and US troops with car bombs. He thinks they are the “resistance.” Iraq belongs to the normal Iraqis who are trying to build a democratic nation. We deposed their oppressor. We are occupying their country as long as needed to make sure they get on their feet. We are training their police and army to take on this job themselves.
“You are certainly not on the side of the Iraqi people when you “don’t see a problem with this quote.”
Who asked us to undertake this act of munificence for the Iraqis? The “normal” ones like Chalabi, who doesn’t even pronounce his name like an Iraqi because he left there in 1958?
