Michael Moore coverup

Michael Moore coverup

: On a clip from a Dateline interview just shown on Today, Matt Lauer confronted Michael Moore about why he did not release images of abuse of prisoners that he had long before the photos from Abu Ghraib came out. Moore ducked and deflected as nimbly as an out-of-shape fat man can, which is to say, not at all.

Moore said that when the photos did come out, it was being treated in a “tabloid” and “s&m” way and so he said he decided to release the images he had in his “context,” which is to say, in his movie. Lauer asked why he didn’t release the images earlier — the implication being that he could have stopped further abuse against the Iraqi prisoners. Moore said, to whom? Lauer said, to the government. Moore shook his head. OK, Lauer said, then why didn’t you break the story? How, asked Moore, I don’t have a TV show. You could have come to us, Lauer said, and we would have shown the story. Moore said he doesn’t trust big media. He said he would have been accused of pulling a publicity stunt for his movie.

Oh, no one would ever accuse Moore of that!

It’s crap. If he really cared about the Iraqi people, Moore would have done something. But he didn’t. He cares about his box office.

283 responses to “Michael Moore coverup”

  1. james Avatar

    sounds like he was caught in a pickle – if he released them earlier, he’s right to think he was doing it for publicity. and now that he’s held them back, he’s being acused of caring about the box office more than the abuse victims. i have a feeling that no matter what Moore does, he’ll be criticized (by this blog).

  2. GCW Avatar

    Maybe he should have erred on the side of “earlier” rather than “later,” then…

  3. Walter Wallis Avatar
    Walter Wallis

    Most likely explanation – Moore instigated the depicted stunts and so wanted to distance himself from his work.

  4. mike Avatar

    So he would rather let the torture continue unreported than have people think he was trying to pull a publicity stunt? In other words, his image was more important than the fate of the Iraqi prisoners.

  5. Mike (different) Avatar
    Mike (different)

    Good job, Buzzmachine! You really let him have it. I don’t know what to do with people like Moore. Thank goodness we have the honest people in the Bush administration to look up to in these horrible times.

  6. pele Avatar

    Whatever your opinions, I don’t feel it is to correct mention his weight. It reminds me of the anti-semitic stereotypes prevalent in cartoons ie dirty, hook-nosed images. Or how the English
    caricatured the Irish as half ape and half man.
    Attack only his views.

  7. hugh macleod Avatar
    hugh macleod

    But Pele, attacking fat people is fun bwah ha ha…
    Nice bit of Moorefisking, Jeff. Like it.

  8. athena Avatar

    On his weight:
    But isn’t it funny the French show distaste to us b/c to them American’s are a bunch of fat, loud, liars?
    But yet they embrace Moore. The poster boy for it.

  9. Chris Avatar

    let’s hope this is the first step in the unraveling of Michael Moore’s support among the lefties. It’s a telling sign that Big Media (Lauer) is taking him to the mat on this (and taking to Moore to the mat is quite a task considering his size).
    There is blood in the water….

  10. Gabriel Avatar

    What a crock. Moore didn’t release the photos because he wanted to make maxmium impact with his film. Hes just as guilty as those who saw the acts but didn’t report them in the prison. He knows full well that he could have gotten the ear of any major media outlet and they would have ran with the story. Anyone who buys into this line of bullshit is just a lemming.

  11. Billy West Avatar
    Billy West

    Since physical appearence is fair game, perhaps Jeff should find a picture that looks like he’s brushed his teeth sometime over the last decade. I’ll bet Moore was thinking something like this – since the mass murder of thousands of innocent Iraqis as a rsult of the invasion has been a non story in the elite media, it would be unlikely that some footage of prisoner abuse (a terrible but lesser crime) would warrant coverage either, might as well present the case against the war all at once. The bad guys here are the torturers and the Administration who covered it up. The reason Moore is a target is because the pro-war people need to preserve whatever is left of their self esteem by attacking the people who were correct all along.

  12. Franky Avatar

    Yeah I think this sounds about right: soldiers commit torture that appears that it might have been sanctioned by as high as the President. But I think we should all get excited about when the slob knew and what he knew.
    Blogs are really blazing trail here.

  13. Lola Avatar

    I’m hoping this will get into the upcoming documentary about Moore, which I will definitely be paying the ticket to see it when it comes out.

  14. mm Avatar

    Another equally plausible explanation is that Moore was somehow threatened by the military not to expose the footage otherwise he would lose access to other people/sites.
    On a different note, I find it interesting that all the tortue apologists now find it easy to criticize Moore for not revealing the photos (not caring about the Iraqi people), while last month they were saying the photos were no big deal in the first place. Can you have it both ways?

  15. Mike (different) Avatar
    Mike (different)

    MM: Well said.

  16. Gib Avatar

    Hey, if Michael Moore can have it both ways, why not the other side? Aren’t military personnel in the same position as Moore (they knew about it, and by their silence explicitly allowed it to continue) facing discharge and possible jail time for their complicity in torture?
    If their silence makes them accomplices to horrible brutality, how in the hell is Moore a heroic light of truth?

  17. Eric Avatar

    MM:
    So its OK for Moore to not ‘break’ the story to the major outlets in order to have maximum impact for his film. Essentially its a travesty that this happened but not a big enough travesty to actually do something about it.
    I guess everyone wants to have it both ways…
    E

  18. AK Avatar

    Jews don’t really have huge hooked noses. Irish people aren’t, in fact, half-monkey. That’s why those are racist stereotypes. But Michael Moore is ONE PERSON, and he really is fat, unkempt, and unattractive. And since he’s made rudeness and a lack of respect his calling cards, I guess many people don’t feel bad about making fun of him.
    Re the actual issue: No access to big media? Threatened by the military? Damned if he does and damned if he doesn’t? Please. He did what he did because that’s what served him the best. He’s a narcissistic, loud-mouthed publicity whore who’s made a career out of creating 90-minute multiplex fixes for bourgeois desperate to have Important Opinions.

  19. Yehudit Avatar

    “Jews don’t really have huge hooked noses.”
    Well, lots of us do. It’s really noticeable when you get lots of Jews in one room. Dark curly hair too. And – news flash! – lots of African-Americans have big lips and flat noses and dark kinky hair!
    But the problem is casting these racial characteristics as ugly or sinister, as racist propaganda does. I find semitic features much more attractive than white guys with short little pushed-in noses, but that’s just me.

  20. Jack Avatar

    That is absolute crap. When these pictures WERE released there was a huge backlash against the people that released them. A lot of the right tried to make it seem not that bad, and the government DID COVER IT UP. So, tell me how Michael Moore releasing the information to the government would have been helpful? They already had it.
    As to releasing it to NBC, you don’t think the right would have thought it was a publicity stunt? You don’t think that everybody would say the photos are fake? Michael Moore could not have stopped it by releasing the pictures, in fact if he had released them earlier it probably wouldn’t have been as big of a story and the government could probably keep on with it.
    You all forget that the RED F’ING CROSS documented the problems to the government and nothing happened. You think Michael Moore could stop it?
    What a joke. The guy is a self-absorbed meglomanic asshole, but blaming him for this is partisan bull crap.

  21. Zach Avatar

    Had the pics come out from Moore, a lot of you fascists wouldn’t have believed them.

  22. Frank Avatar

    Funny how Moore “doesn’t trust big media”, but he has no problem using it to publicize his move and all the other crap he puts out. Typical right winger double standards, that fat smug SOB.

  23. Frank Avatar

    Funny how Moore “doesn’t trust big media”, but he has no problem using it to publicize his move and all the other crap he puts out. Typical LEFT (not right) winger double standards, that fat smug SOB.

  24. steven olson Avatar
    steven olson

    right winger double standards? You are a moron. If MM released these photos nobody would take them seriously. His far LEFT stance means that anything he does will be seen as tactic to strenghten the lefts position agaisnt the war. It was good he did not release them. Frank, do you know the difference between right and left?

  25. HH Avatar

    Good Lord… Now Moore is using Lloyd Grove to cover up his multiple lies and accuracy problems, plus this abuse photo thing by saying “O’Reilly walked out of my movie!” Er, yeah, when it starts 40 minutes late you shouldn’t be surprised if people with tight schedules WALK OUT, you dumbass.

  26. Eric Avatar

    Here’s another thought. Moore could have gone to the big press, blown the story wide open, and then NOT use the footage in his movie. Just give up the information to stop this injustice. Not a publicity stunt then…
    But of course Moore couldn’t do that could he? The film is more important stopping these criminal abuses.
    E

  27. CatM Avatar

    Total bull. Moore couldn’t have done anything. If he had shown the pictures, the government would have questioned their authenticity, claimed it was one or two rogue soldiers (which is even what they’re doing at Abu Grhaib) and no investigation would have been called for and nothing would have happened except perhaps to reprimand the few soldiers Moore actually captured on tape.
    And indeed, those were a few “rogue” soldiers. They weren’t interragators or jailers. Abu Ghraib is significant because those prisoners are in custody and it appears the MPs were following proscribed patterns of abuse.
    What Moore had is even less impactful than the pictures we’ve seen, which those on the right have already managed to dismiss. Moore’s right. He’d have been accused of a publicity stunt.

  28. Mandark Avatar
    Mandark

    The media, up until recently when the lies and deception are too obvious to igonre, has been whoring for BushCO – why wouldn’t Moore hold off his footage? The man is damned if he does, damned if he doesn’t, so all things being equal he did the right thing!

  29. Three Oranges Avatar
    Three Oranges

    If only there were some medium…some means of communication by which he could’ve released this footage without going through the government or big media.
    Someone should give Al Gore a call. I hear he has experience in inventing such things.

  30. Paul R. Avatar
    Paul R.

    COUP D’ETAT:
    The Real Reason Tenet and Pavitt Resigned from the
    CIA on June 3rd and 4th
    Bush, Cheney Indictments in Plame Case Looming
    http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/060804_coup_detat.html

  31. Toranaga N.C.A. Avatar
    Toranaga N.C.A.

    Meglomanic is not a word. I guess you’re attempting to spell megalomanic which would be to suffer from megalomania which is to suffer delusions of grandeur. But who needs correct grammar and spelling anyway. No matter what Moore did he would be attacked by the insane religious right that protect our little monkey in the white house. To stand up for what you believe, even in the face of “the evil doers”, takes courage not greed. Everyone who posts on this blog should check out MichaelMoore.com, and vote for ANYONE other then George W. Monkey in the Nov. elections

  32. Mark Alfieri Avatar
    Mark Alfieri

    The background stories on Moore’s film has increased my respect for him. Here’s why:
    (1) his refusal to include any reference to Nick Berg in his film. He could have hurriedly re-cut the movie to include the Berg segment. This could have increased the curiousity value at a minimum. His refusal to do so and not tamper with his movie, I think, is very creditable.
    (2) his refusal to disclose what is now considered Iraqi abuse film footage is also creditable. I haven’t seen the film, but it does not appear that his footage is as graphic as what took place in the photos. As a consequence, if it was disclosed prior to the photos, it is unlikely it would have received much press. The government only responded because there were graphic photos they could not get away from

  33. Frank Avatar

    Hey Olsen, My comment was directed at the fact that MM said he didn’t trust the media, but used it to promote his crap, and you would have read just below the first comment I posted you would have seen that I corrected my self. You must be a typical LEFT wing name caller….

  34. arrogance is bliss Avatar
    arrogance is bliss

    i agree with the very first post by james, no matter what Moore would’ve done he would be criticized anyway. besides the US already knew what was taking place, they were warned by the red cross over a year ago to clean up their act but it took the whores of media to exploit it so who’s fault is it really? the abu giraid scandal goes very high and the buck is being passed once again. it amazes the arrogance and ignorance i see written here, if you see a spade then call it a spade. bush is doing a piss poor job – look at the real facts, read up, be objective, don’t be afraid to be proved wrong.

  35. Kai Avatar

    Moore wouldn’t be so bad if he didn’t fill his ‘documentaries’ full of bullshit.
    To top it all off, whether he likes it or not, he’s one of the people who kept quiet about abuse! Regardless of his reasons!!!!!!
    What is so sad is there are tons of people like him that could choose to do stories with the same hard-hitting depth but they always choose to do something for monetary or political reasons.

  36. luigi Avatar

    hahaha.
    it’s funny to watch you people squirm. Imagine what you all would have said if he had released the photos. I can’t wait for his movie to come out, and make you all ashamed of the egregious lies and errors you fell for over the past few years. morons.

  37. fat kid Avatar

    Drudge-a-lance! Cool. :D
    You write this as if we didn’t already know MM is a s**tbag. ;) :)

  38. David Lown Avatar
    David Lown

    This is a lot of bull. The bottom line is that there was widespread abuse of prisoners condoned by the Bush administration. You right wing nuts can try to twist the argument but Michael Moore was not responsible for that and his movie will show a lot of facts that Bush would like to hide like his families connection to Osama bin Ladens family to start.

  39. Cheney's Dick Avatar
    Cheney’s Dick

    You know if Moore would of came out with those photos ealier, the people on the right would of said that he’s doing it for publicity.
    The right has NEVER liked Moore and they never will. You guys keep believing in people like Hannity, Rush, and O’Reilly (I saw the very funny exchange Bill had with Moore last night when he tried to sneek out of the movie last night. Check Lloyd Grove’s column in today’s Daily News). I don’t need anyone telling me anything about anyone. I can make up my own mind about Moore without listening to the pundits on the right (or bloggers).

  40. dt Avatar

    yea, its moores fault for not reporting it….. not the SOLDIERS WHO WERE DOING IT.
    USE YOUR HEAD.

  41. TJ Avatar

    To three oranges: It looks like the right wing propaganda machine has influenced this board as well. You do realize Al Gore never said,” I invented the internet”. If you don’t believe me tell me when and where he said it, and cite your source as well.

  42. HH Avatar

    “Another equally plausible explanation is that Moore was somehow threatened by the military not to expose the footage otherwise he would lose access to other people/sites.”
    Oh well that would make it alright.
    “On a different note, I find it interesting that all the tortue apologists now find it easy to criticize Moore for not revealing the photos (not caring about the Iraqi people), while last month they were saying the photos were no big deal in the first place. Can you have it both ways.”
    Bullshit.

  43. Jane Avatar

    Do you people not watch the news. The pictures were taken in Nov 03. The Military reported the abuse in Jan 04 but did not release the pictures at that time because they were in the middle of an investigation. By the time the pictures did come out, the military had already taken some corrective action. Just because nobody cared to report the story until the pictures came out, doesn’t mean the story was covered up!

  44. wm Avatar

    For all these people posting that Moore couldn’t have done anything, or it would have been covered up: How do you explain the HUGE story this became the very moment the initial photos were released? Or the fact that the very reason we know about these incidents was due to a military investigation? The abuse allegations had been under investigation, and publicly known, for weeks before the first photos emerged.
    I don’t know when Moore first obtained these photos, or how much, if any, suffering an immediate release would have prevented. However, I don’t see any reason for Moore to have withheld them, other than self-serving ones.

  45. Groovy Avatar

    Well I agree Moore was damned if he did, damned if he didn’t. Personally I think he made the right choice not to publicize the stuff earlier. The Red Cross and others were already complaining about this abuse last January, and the government was in full-on coverup mode. Better that the cover was finally blown by 60 Minutes II, a more mainstream outlet. Instead of worrying about what Moore knew when, I think people should be a little more concerned about what Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld/Rice knew when.

  46. HH Avatar

    “As to releasing it to NBC, you don’t think the right would have thought it was a publicity stunt? You don’t think that everybody would say the photos are fake?”
    Some British photos in the Daily Mirror WERE fake. When these photos came out no one said they were fake. Nice try. Hey, if Bush had done what the left wanted prior to Sep. 11, he would have come in for calls for impeachment for “shredding the Constitution” and infringing on rights of that poor Mohammed Atta, etc.

  47. james Avatar

    “It’s crap. If he really cared about the Iraqi people, Moore would have done something. But he didn’t. He cares about his box office…”
    So… Because Moore does not “do something” or because he did not immediately release his abuse footage to the media or because he chose to withold the footage within a cinematic context–because of this–Moore DOES NOT CARE about the Iraqi people????
    I think he DOES care. I just think there is a valid and honest difference of opinion as to what Moore’s actions mean.
    Mind-reading someone else’s motives is no exact science.

  48. HH Avatar

    “I can’t wait for his movie to come out, and make you all ashamed of the egregious lies and errors you fell for over the past few years.”
    Like the egregious lies and errors Moore pushed in his last few books, which are already being exposed in this film now?

  49. ed Avatar

    Actually, in Moore’s defense, I’m sure he feels that he can do more for the Iraqi people by trying to get Bush out of office than by releasing an abuse photo.

  50. ZID Avatar

    Since physical appearence is fair game, perhaps Jeff should find a picture that looks like he’s brushed his teeth sometime over the last decade. I’ll bet Moore was thinking something like this – since the mass murder of thousands of innocent Iraqis as a rsult of the invasion has been a non story in the elite media, it would be unlikely that some footage of prisoner abuse (a terrible but lesser crime) would warrant coverage either, might as well present the case against the war all at once. The bad guys here are the torturers and the Administration who covered it up. The reason Moore is a target is because the pro-war people need to preserve whatever is left of their self esteem by attacking the people who were correct all along.

  51. David Avatar

    Michael Moore is good at what he does but so was a man who worked for Hitler making films like this . He would do edits to make our side look bad. I have to admit I liked his first movie Roger and Me but I went to Flint later and found out some things I never knew.
    Many of the people shown in the film never worked for GM. I do know that Moore did more damage to Flint they GM ever did.
    Ask Michael Moore why he tried to stop his own people from joining a union.
    Ask him why his own kids don’t go to Public School.
    Ask Moore if he was ever offered a interview with Roger and turned it down.
    I am a democrat and I have to tell you he is causing more damage then good.

  52. Jeff Avatar

    I find it ironic that D Rumsfeld stated that the Pentagon broke this story in January yet only looked at the photos the night before he spoke to the Senate. I think that Moore should have come forward but I understand why he didn’t. After all 60 Minutes sat on the photos for two weeks at the Pentagon’s request. What is more troubling, the photos of the or the fact that it happened at all? Moore’s job it to put people in the theatre, he is not part of the “news Media”. If he hold a story to create a reaction that will benefit him so be it. The Pentagon should have released the photos when the story broke. But instead they have outlawed digital cameras and video recorders from their military installations. Is this to prevent the abuse from happening again or to prevent it from being recorded? I question the motives of the Pentagon more than I question Moore’s.

  53. Idiot Americans Avatar
    Idiot Americans

    Great…You dumb ass republicans think Moore is now responsible for the torture… Such the state of America today, huh? Leaders don’t have a club, just hollywood directors…
    f’ing idiots!

  54. Foobar Avatar

    I love when people mention Moore’s weight as though that has anything to do with the information he’s presenting. Even Republicans I know are upset with Bush for lying about WMD as a pretext for invading Iraq. It’s a shame that some people let their extreme partisanship interfere with proper brain function.

  55. Paul R. Avatar
    Paul R.

    COUP D’ETAT:
    The Real Reason Tenet and Pavitt Resigned from the
    CIA on June 3rd and 4th
    Bush, Cheney Indictments in Plame Case Looming
    http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/060804_coup_detat.html

  56. ArtDeco Avatar
    ArtDeco

    Yeah, that fat bastard MM…it’s all his fault. I be he went over to Abu Ghraib and set the whole thing up. Told those poor American soldiers that they could be in his movie if only they could come up with some crazy pictures and videos of them torturing some Iraqis. Then, being one of the most powerful men on the planet, he orders Rumsfeld to ask (wink, wink) CBS to delay the 60 minutes report on the torture. And I’m pretty sure Moore is the one that wrote the ‘Torture is OK’ memo that Ashcroft is refusing to release (in contempt of and) to Congress.
    Wow, he sure is one fat evil bastard…I just wish we could have just convinced him it was wrong to invade Iraqi before he committed our troops to invade.

  57. Pablo Avatar

    Bush and Blair knew about this long before MM did, and they did nothing. It wasn’t MM’s place to release this info, Bush should have come clean but tried to hide it like everything else! Hypocrites!
    “16 May, 2003: Amnesty International investigates claims that Iraqi prisoners of war were tortured by British and US troops.
    A “substantial proportion” of 20 former Iraqi POWs interviewed by the human rights group said they had been maltreated by coalition forces in central and southern Iraq.” from BBC.com
    See ya Bush.. you are outta here!

  58. steve Avatar

    I’ve said it before . . . I’ll say it again:
    Please give Michael Moore more airtime. The more people see him, the more they’ll realize who/what he is. He’s benefitted from his “cult” status. As he moves in a wider circle his buffoonery will not win him any more friends and will serve to diminish his “star” status.
    Please, someone do a one-hour primetime special on this bozo!

  59. Paul R. Avatar
    Paul R.

    COUP D’ETAT:
    The Real Reason Tenet and Pavitt Resigned from the
    CIA on June 3rd and 4th
    Bush, Cheney Indictments in Plame Case Looming
    http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/060804_coup_detat.html

  60. Wallyworld Avatar
    Wallyworld

    If MR Moore had come forward with the photo’s the power people would have had him for lunch ,give the guy credit for knowing when to swing the bat
    AS we say in Canada .. MM for PM

  61. Paul R. Avatar
    Paul R.

    Thank God for Michael Moore. We need alot moore people as brave and patriotic as he is.

  62. Noah Zoschke Avatar
    Noah Zoschke

    Where were the other journalists? Why weren’t they out there uncovering these important images?
    If you indict Moore for this, you must indict every other person that had seen these images (soldiers, generals, DoD, etc.). You must also indict every journalist that could have and should have uncovered these images independently. Moore does nothing that grants him special access to such material. He simply works his ass off to get it.
    Instead of blaming everyone, lets just agree to praise the whistleblower William Lawson, the brother-in-law of the father of one of the soldiers facing prosecution for Abu Ghraib. The images should have come out sooner, and would have come out no matter what, but Lawson was the man that did it first. This family deserves all the support we can give them.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/08/national/08IMAG.html?ex=1399435200&en=cbb2749be9ed10da&ei=5007&partner=USERLAND

  63. Paul R. Avatar
    Paul R.

    Impeach the imposter!

  64. Bill Avatar

    Who are you people? Do you really think that the idiot media in this country would publish what Mr. Moore says? If he knew about torture, etc., why didn’t the media in general? Did he have greater resourses than the huge conglomerates that run the media here? He is not a reporter but a film maker. He made a great film. The reporters, however, have not done a great job. In fact, they are all so fearful in this repressive environment that they seem to prefer to report what thay are told despite what they see.

  65. Darryl Avatar

    Michael Moore said that he had shocking new footage that he was to present in his film. This is why he did not release to anyone about the abuse. He wanted people to come into the theater and see the abuse and get all angry about it. Michael Moore only cares about the ALMIGHTY $. Not that he could have months earlier prevented abuse and torture.
    If he does not trust big media (sitting on it, ignoring it, calling him a liar, etc) he should have released it to every news outlet. At least one would have aired the abuse and shown that it was real.

  66. Paul R. Avatar
    Paul R.

    COUP D’ETAT:
    The Real Reason Tenet and Pavitt Resigned from the
    CIA on June 3rd and 4th
    Bush, Cheney Indictments in Plame Case Looming
    http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/060804_coup_detat.html

  67. b Avatar

    Micheal Moore is no more than a self-serving holliwood wannabe. He’s only after what it gets for him.

  68. George Avatar

    Wake up America! Bush is fucking us and we have our fat heads in the (Iraqi) sand! He needs to go!

  69. raz Avatar

    anyone who has to use “typical ___-wing” in their argument is idiotic.
    argue using the facts and stop playing all this stupid 2-party crap. that’s the reason we aren’t getting anywhere anyway.
    this administration is so clearly tripping over themselves trying to justify perhaps the most ridiculous war in american history. we are straight-out stealing in iraq while we ignorantly argue over here in a vacuum, the result of hard information lockdown by the administration. when they do talk they contradict each other, and as long as we get to see scott peterson after the commercial we don’t care. you ever think that most of the iraqi’s didn’t hate americans until we came in and took all their jobs? what, there’s no engineers or truckdrivers in iraq? yeah, they are out of work, pissed off, and called insurgents.
    liberal media my ass. if that’s the case then the media’s power is greatly overrated, because last i checked we have a single party in control for the first time in decades. look at how well they are doing too. clearchannel liberal? newscorp liberal? yeah right.
    is it a coincidence that when a crusading christian is the president and the republicans hold the entire legislative branch that things start to look like fahrenheit 451? take your boner medicine, watch american idol, enjoy your soon to be outsourced job before you end up working at the 3rd walmart or 16th starbucks in your town for $6/hr with no benes. there’s the new american dream. oh yeah, pray every morning in school that walmart won’t leave. and watch out for those radical religious people. no, not our president, the other radical religious nuts.
    no one that sold this war fought in vietnam except powell, whose been quiet since he was told to lie to he UN. the rest are chickenhawks. everyone else in bush’s team that dared speak out against this asinine policy of preemptive war against a powerless country that we had in complete lockdown has been fired and discredited. the 9/11 commission has stated clearly that there is no connection to osama, at least not nearly enough to justify the war.
    i can’t believe that seemingly intelligent americans continue to buy into this shit. did anyone take any logic courses in their schooling? does anyone have any common sense?
    WMD – lie one.
    9/11 done by saddam – lie 2.
    mass graves by the terrible dictator – half-truth. a) the said “terrible dictator” was a political and business partner of ours until the day he marched into kuwait, yes including during and after killing many of his countrymen; b) his biggest crime was committed against the kurds after we told them to revolt and then left them hanging; c) where are they burying the 10,000 dead iraqi’s killed this year? a big old george w bush mass grave.
    it’s okay, ashcroft said W has the authority to torture the hell out of who ever he wants. WOW. trust in him, god told him it’s ok. his true father gives him direction, as he put it. who would jesus bomb? for that matter, who would jesus vote for? probably ralph nader, LOL!

  70. Paul R. Avatar
    Paul R.

    Right On Panther George!

  71. JB$ Avatar

    Michael Moore is not responsible for the original breaking of Geneva Convention. Duyba is. He hears voices in his head telling him to do things, as reported by FrontLine last month in their story “The Jesus Factor”. Everyone here wasting time thrid-guessing why or why not someone did or did not do somehting in response to that is missing the point: it ought not have happened in the first place. This president has endangered Americans by his actions. This president has broken laws that make him the exact same as Milosevic & Hussein himself & he ought to be sent to The Hauge to answer for it.
    You are all blood thirsty, war mongers, who are war profiteering if you think otherwise.
    Read this:
    http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/main/article/cold_turkey/
    (the smartest thing written this year), listen to John Lennon’s Imagine, then post your reply.
    Thanks.
    Jason
    Portland, OR, USA

  72. Paul R. Avatar
    Paul R.

    Right On Panther Raz!

  73. Paul R. Avatar
    Paul R.

    Right On Panther JB$!

  74. Paul R. Avatar
    Paul R.

    COUP D’ETAT:
    The Real Reason Tenet and Pavitt Resigned from the
    CIA on June 3rd and 4th
    Bush, Cheney Indictments in Plame Case Looming
    http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/060804_coup_detat.html

  75. Paul Avatar

    When my son grows up and wants to know why the whole world hates Americans, it will be hard to explain to him how one dumbass administration wrecked the whole thing for all of us. I would rather be the old ugly/loud/obnoxious American than the newly despised one!

  76. Paul R. Avatar
    Paul R.

    Right On Panther Paul!

  77. Tina Avatar

    I doubt Michael Moore had any pictures to begin with. How easy it is to say he had them when the entire time, Rumsfeld was trying to clean up the mess. The media didn’t bring out the story of the prison abuse anyway – Rumsfeld did. Not to mention, President Bush had no idea what was going on until the news story came out. Rumsfeld unfortunately made a big mistake and didn’t inform Bush. The media (as usual) is only running with the story. They have nothing else, so they are running this story to the ground. So, they were a little humiliated – better than having their heads cut off.
    Also, there is WMD which was found with the engravings from the inspectors themselves. If you read something other than the lib newspapers and watch something other than lib news on t.v. you would know that. How amazing – the libs hate Sean Hannity for the truths that are told. How can you say there was no WMD – the proof is in the mass graves that were uncovered. How do you think Saddam’s own people who trusted him and believed in him became part of the thousands found in those graves – one by one suicide? Libs really need to get a grasp of reality. Hindsight is always 20/20. How funny it is that we forget why we are fighting terrorism to begin with. We need Bush. God help us if “I voted for the $87 billion for our troops, before I voted against it” and ” I own many SUVs”, “oh, the SUV’s aren’t mine, they are my families” – Kerry (can’t make up my mind on whether to scratch my watch or wind my butt) becomes Pre… see I can’t even associate those two words together. UGH!!!!

  78. HH Avatar

    “WMD – lie one.”
    Canard one. Except they have found sarin, mustard gas, mountains of evidence of WMD programs and activity, and now they are finding more evidence that Saddam dismantled illegal weapons and shipped the parts in scrap metal to various other countries.
    “9/11 done by saddam – lie 2.”
    Canard two – No one has claimed Saddam did it… we do have the numerous instances of meetings between the two, we have Zarqawi who walked Iraq at will going back and forth between there and Afghanistan when Saddam was there, we have the Atta meeting which has yet to be disproved despite disinformation from the mainstream press, we have Saddam’s undeniable support of terrorists and the Sep. 11 attacks themselves.
    “mass graves by the terrible dictator – half-truth”
    Why the scare quotes around “terrible dictator?” He was… and any support of him in the past strengthens the case that we should have dealt with him, not weakens it. There is no “half” to the many dead at Saddam’s hand. These attempts to excuse Saddam’s genocide because of what we did or didn’t do are outrageous.

  79. Darryl Avatar

    How can Dubya violate the Geneva convention against terrorists? The convention was to protect soldiers of a uniform of a country. Terrorists have no country. Even if they are supported by a country, they do not wear the uniform of that country.

  80. Paul R. Avatar
    Paul R.

    COUP D’ETAT:
    The Real Reason Tenet and Pavitt Resigned from the
    CIA on June 3rd and 4th
    Bush, Cheney Indictments in Plame Case Looming
    http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/060804_coup_detat.html

  81. chico haas Avatar
    chico haas

    Only about a zillion web sites would’ve posted Moore’s shots. Then everyone else would’ve had to. But, hey, it’s his footage, he can show it whenever or however he wants. But, honestly, his sanctimonious posturing, his ‘me against the machine’ piety belies his actions in this case. He’s like an oil company commercial that talks about making a difference when you know they’ve got other things on their mind.

  82. Terry Avatar

    Nevermind how much MM will make with his movie…how about our wannabe President and VP?
    These crooks will be making the real money in comparison to some paltry amount any movie could ever possibly make. Get a clue people, we are being raped by our government and our sons and daughters are being killed in Iraq while you are going after a film maker. TV Babies!

  83. Paul R. Avatar
    Paul R.

    Right On Panther Terry!

  84. raz Avatar

    if terrorists have no country, then who are we fighting against again?

  85. mike Avatar

    when did all the idiots from moveon.org get here?

  86. Etienne Avatar
    Etienne

    GIVE ME A BREAK!
    The government knew of these abuses and were
    investigating, thats why he shook his head
    when Matt asked him “why didnt you tell the Gov?”
    Just like the Berg thing, he would have been acused
    of being a publicity hound so he cant win but
    keep trying right wing nut(s), enjoy your last days
    of power.
    Go see this movie, why be afraid?

  87. Paul R. Avatar
    Paul R.

    COUP D’ETAT:
    The Real Reason Tenet and Pavitt Resigned from the
    CIA on June 3rd and 4th
    Bush, Cheney Indictments in Plame Case Looming
    http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/060804_coup_detat.html
    Posted by Paul R. at June 16, 2004 01:44 PM

  88. Laura Willett Avatar

    For all of Moore

  89. Paul R. Avatar
    Paul R.

    COUP D’ETAT:
    The Real Reason Tenet and Pavitt Resigned from the
    CIA on June 3rd and 4th
    Bush, Cheney Indictments in Plame Case Looming
    http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/060804_coup_detat.html
    Posted by Paul R. at June 16, 2004 01:44 PM

  90. Darryl Avatar

    We are fighting against the governments that may or may not have supported these terrorists. If we remove that leaders of countries that support terrorism, then the terrorists have no where to go. If a member of the Al-Sadr militia is captured, he is not fighting for the flag of Iraq. He is a terrorist. He has no rights under the Geneva Convention as it is written. I believe that it should be changed because times have changed. Rules of war fare have changed.

  91. Jim T. Avatar

    You have got to be kidding me. Are you people for real? I doubt there’s a one of you who can honestly say he finds fault with Michael Moore’s action. Instead, what you are doing is trying *really hard* — desperately, even — to find something, anything, to criticize Moore for.
    You say he did wrong by not releasing his footage of soldiers abusing Iraqis. Question: have you seen the footage? If not, then upon what are you basing your argument? What you “heard”?
    The footage may very well be damning; I haven’t seen it. But Moore did not scoop anybody by showing the callousness of U.S. soldiers. Have any of you seen the PBS show Frontline’s coverage of the Iraq War? No? If you had seen it you would know that U.S. soldiers acting like power-drunk yahoos is quite commonplace. If you did any amount of reading throughout the war, you would also know that U.S. soldiers frequently shot, humiliated or terrorized Iraq citizens, stripping them naked, raiding their homes in the middle of the night (whether or not the Iraqis were guilty of anything), “accidentally” shooting them and putting rockets into Al Jazeera office windows, and so on. Where have you guys been? There’s plenty of evidence and reporting to the effect that some (not all) of the U.S. soldiers in Iraq have behaved less than honorably, and yet there does not seem to be much concern on the part of either the U.S. public or the government. That being the case, is it really so hard to understand why Moore would be skeptical that releasing the footage early would prevent any future abuse? No.
    However, in the context of a larger film, maybe the ambiguous role of the U.S. in Iraq will finally get the attention and focus that it merits.
    As for the person who suggested that Moore staged the abuse, you’ve got to be kidding. Do you have a head injury or are you just completely in denial about the workings of the world outside of your apartment?
    Stop being a bunch of flag-waving morons, wake up, and do what real Americans do — THINK and QUESTION your government. This country was founded by people who refused to accept B.S. from their leadership. Why do you accept it? Why do you insist on being sheep? The U.S. is not beyond reproach. Just because we’re on the top of the hill doesn’t mean we can do whatever we please without having to be thoughtful or conscientious about it. Instead, it makes it THAT MUCH MORE IMPORTANT that we are measured and careful about the ways we exert our power.

  92. raz Avatar

    i think we should declare more military strikes against ideologies. it seems to be working so well this time. conservatism, liberalism, racism, kobeism…. wait is that one?
    bomb bomb bomb, just like jesus wants. oh wait, the pope is against the war too. isn’t he closer to god than W on the god scale?
    argue details all you want. look at halliburton’s profits. it’s called robber barons, hiding behind a vague crusade like notion of showing these people how ‘free’ societies work. yet they see us as yet another country overrun by non-indigenous people. white american thieving chicken hawks and people too afraid to think for themselves, that’s who’s driving this war. you know many cars got better gas mileage in the 80’s than now? related to oil companies showing record profits?

  93. MW Avatar

    A wise man once said: “Follow the money.”
    The money trail almost always leads to the truth. Most people, like it or not, ARE influenced by money. MM lives in the lap of luxury in NY. Do you really think he has more altruistic motives? That $2.9 million apartment must cost a few thousand bucks a month to maintain. Once you become accustomed to a certain lifestyle it is nearly impossible to give it up. Therefore, one will do what one needs to do to maintain the status quo.

  94. Valderos Avatar
    Valderos

    Michael Moore says he didn’t release his evidence of prison abuse because he doesn’t “trust big media”. He trusts big media to sell his movies, though. He could just have easily put it on his website with all the other garbage he puts there. Michael Moore is just as two-faced as every politician he attacks. He likes to give the impression that America is going down the tubes while he sits back and counts the millions he makes off his propaganda and then funnels his money to his Canadian business partners. Isn’t he part of the problem?
    In response to TJ:
    In a CNN interview with Wolf Blitzer on March 9, 1999, Gore stated: “I took the initiative in creating the internet.” (Read the article for the whole context: http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stories/1999/03/09/president.2000/transcript.gore/)
    While his comment wasn’t wholly inaccurate, it is vague and leads the uninformed to believe he did create the internet. It’s like saying, “While the boss was out, I took the initiative to order more office supplies.” Translates to: “I ordered the office supplies.”
    In the same way, “I took the initiative in creating the internet.” translates to “I created the internet”. A more honest way of stating it would have been to say that Gore supported a stronger global communication system and helped pave the way for the internet.

  95. steph Avatar

    No one would care if Moore weren’t such a vocal opponent of the Bush Administration and such an ardent supporter of the Little Guys and the Underdogs. He prides himself on being a whistleblower and a man that exposes injustices and inequalities in the System.
    The point here is this: in not releasing the information as soon as he had it, he has done exactly what helped put this country under Bush’s leadership in the first place (think voter turnout)…he assumed that he couldn’t make a difference so he didn’t even bother trying.

  96. I wanna be Prez Avatar
    I wanna be Prez

    Losers… if Iraq had so called WMD, and North Korea is saying, hey we are building them and have them aimed at you, why don’t you think Dubya cares one bit about Korea? Because North Korea is starving to death and Iraq has oil, if you wanted more cash who would you go after? Any ex alcoholic C student wannabe president can answer that one.

  97. Paul R. Avatar
    Paul R.

    COUP D’ETAT:
    The Real Reason Tenet and Pavitt Resigned from the
    CIA on June 3rd and 4th
    Bush, Cheney Indictments in Plame Case Looming
    http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/060804_coup_detat.html
    Posted by Paul R. at June 16, 2004 01:44 PM

  98. haubalong Avatar
    haubalong

    America is losing it’s mind. Do YOU believe in what the constitution says? You sure as hell better believe it.
    It says we have the freedom of the press…the freedom of speech…which makes it perfectly alright for Sean Hannity to spew lies and hatred…AND for Micheal Moore to do the same. So those who want to STOP them from speaking…let’s be very clear right now…are UNAMERICAN…and NOT patriotic….on BOTH SIDES.
    At some point you will have to decide whose politics you trust. It usually comes down to money and power. Who has the money and power right now? Who WANTS the money and the power?
    If you believe everything Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh say you are simply stupid. The same goes for Micheal Moore and Al Franken. Let’s be very clear about this…NO ONE HAS A LOCK ON THE TRUTH.
    But in the end it comes down to what is BEST for the GREATEST NUMBER of people. That’s the essence of a representative democracy. Make your decision and then support your candidate. Participate. We will all be better served.

  99. Paul R. Avatar
    Paul R.

    Right On Panther haubalong!

  100. Mike Avatar

    Jim, how dare you spew forth this load of crap about our soldiers over in Iraq. You sound like you’re recycling bits from the opponents of the vietnam war when you’re describing our troops now. that is just plain horsesh*t! Plenty of evidence? List it, let’s see it. I have friends and relatives over in Iraq and they haven’t seen any of what you’re talking about a**hole.
    Waving my flag proudly.

  101. Aphex Twin Avatar
    Aphex Twin

    See the movie – then talk. I saw the premiere on Monday – I dare anyone who does to be 100% behind this administration. See the movie, and you’ll see how we have all been raped as Americans. Michael Moore was actually IN Iraq filming and interviewing. How many of these bloggers have actually been to Iraq? Exactly. “A coward” my ass! If you’re all SO behind the war, THEN SIGN UP FOR SERVICE – THE MILITARY COULD USE YOUR HELP! I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: if you’re behind this administration and you’re not in the top 5% of the wealthiest Americans, or you don’t work in the oil or pharmeceutical industry, you’ve been duped.

  102. raz Avatar

    MM — great point. FOLLOW THE MONEY.
    why don’t you war mongers follow the money and at least be honest about it.
    i might have considered supporting this war if it was sold to me truthfully. iraq has LOTS of oil, just about as much as saudi. saudi and texas have been partners a long time and therefore the saudi oil is profited from greatly, both there and here. iraq’s oil, on the other hand, not so much, whether it be because of saddam’s ability to piss people off, or just flat out incompetence as capitalists, iraq couldn’t turn that oil into money. so when it was decided that halliburton could, time to drum up some reasons to let them in.
    bush was right, mission was accomplished. he just lied about what that mission was. mission is that all iraqi oil will either directly or indirectly benefit america for decades.
    or he just started WW3 with this “all-in” move.

  103. Paul R. Avatar
    Paul R.

    Right On Panther Aphex Twin!

  104. MIke Avatar

    It’s all about the oil, follow the money, I love it. You guys crack me up.

  105. Aphex Twin Avatar
    Aphex Twin

    “The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions that I wish it to be always kept alive. It will often be exercised when wrong, but better so than not to be exercised at all”
    — Thomas Jefferson

  106. Tina Avatar

    Even Michael Moore said that this movie is exaggarated for movie sake. Most of Hollyweird is against Bush – why would I associate myself to those people or pay my hard earned money to see something that is not entirely true, but has now been advertised as “truth about the Bush administration?” What a joke. I won’t be seen anywhere NEAR the theatre for that one – although I might see the movie that is now out about Clinton :)

  107. Aphex Twin Avatar
    Aphex Twin

    “Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.”
    — Thomas Jefferson

  108. Aphex Twin Avatar
    Aphex Twin
  109. Tina Avatar

    If Kerry stood for something…anything, and stuck to it, I could see being behind him, but Bush has said what he was going to do and he’s doing it – presidency at stake or not – he’s a man of his WORD and ACTIONS.
    Sean Hannity – as long as I have been listening to him, can back up and does so with that persons own words what he is proving to the public. Can the liberal news media do that? UH…NO
    As far as oil, what oil have we gotten? Why are the liberals so hell bent on saying the Bush went over to Iraq for oil? Canada has more oil than Iraq so get a clue.

  110. Darryl Avatar

    During the Clinton Admin, the number four provider of oil to the US was from Iraq. The same country that the US had a trade embargo on. Explain how that happens.
    The other thing that I would like to see is the government to step up and say, “Yes, we f**ked up.” Of course they can’t do that because then we would see the government as fallable and that cannot happen.
    No matter who you vote for and get into power, 50% of the people will be unhappy. If you are truly unhappy with the government, start at the local level of your government and start making changes there. Try to see how easy it is to get 100% of the people behind your decisions.
    I am tired of Richard Clarke saying that more should have been done during the attacks of 9/11. He came out today and said that the fighter jets were too slow to respond to the attack. They should have been in the air the instant that the first plane hit the trade tower. That would mean that we knew exactly what happened at that instant. No one knew at the time it was a terrorist attack until the second plane. It may have taken some time to get the fighters in the air, but it did not take forever as Clarke suggests. People’s perception of time changes during time of stress. Short little events seem to take forever to occur because we want immediate action where immediate action is not possible.
    Bush is at fault for going to war in Iraq.
    Clinton is at fault for not going after Al-Queda.
    Reagan is at fault for creating the problem in Afghanistan.
    You can go back in time to the days of the Romans and find blame.
    The choice is now yours. Do you want a president that makes bad judgement errors, but sticks to the same plan; or do you want a president that cannot make up his mind, that changes it every day to suit whatever is popular for that day? The choice of the lesser of two evils is up to you.

  111. Ben Avatar

    Moore does not trust big media, who can blame him? After all, Moore’s films are big media. He is expert in the art of propagating the Big Lie via Big Media.
    How do we know Moore had these photos before release to the general public? – because Moore say he did? Sorry, but if this is the case, I am skeptical. Perhaps claiming to have had these photos well before “big media” is in and of itself a Moore pre-release publicity stunt.
    It is well timed.
    It has his name in the press.
    It suggests he has access to information yet unknown to the rest of us.
    … and unlike being first to expose the scandal would have…
    It does not require his actually having had the photos before anyone else.

  112. Kevin B Avatar
    Kevin B

    This is a post for Walter’s comments: Are you really that stupid? Did Moore “set-up” the Columbine shootings as well? if you leaned any farther to the right you may fall off this flat world. People quit being narrow minded and see the film then judge for yourselves!!

  113. Jeff Jarvis Avatar

    I corrected my misplaced order of wording; Moore’s images were not in Abu Ghraib; meant to say that he had that before the images in Abu Ghraib came out; corrected.

  114. Pablo Avatar

    Tina, pull your head out of your ass, you are paying far more money for oil and blood for the Bush administration, at least MM is entertaining!

  115. anonyMoses Avatar

    How do you know?
    And how does it feel to be an apologist for a murderous regime?
    Anon

  116. raz Avatar

    so has anyone here seen or read “fahrenheit 451”? i always wonder if the works so often argued about were ever actually read. me – my meager book collection seems to be able to piss off all types of people. people are already arguing about moore’s movie and haven’t seen it yet. other stuff has been out for decades and people still seem ignorant to it.

  117. Kay Fish Avatar
    Kay Fish

    I’m sure the AP or other news organizations would have bought them up or at least published them on the front page. They love to run good stories that would hurt the cause in Iraq. M. Moore is a big dumb lug who probably never had any friends because he’s so rude and obnoxious, but is more than happy to cater to and help reaffirm the beliefs of the Hollywood liberals to be able to gain their ever enduring love. Its just them making themselves feel good. He’s only making these movies to futher his political agenda.

  118. raz Avatar

    apologist for a murderous regime? i have a picture of rumsfeld shaking saddam’s hand in iraq. i never shook the man’s hand.
    answer me this: was saddam the most brutal dictator in the world? was he our most brutal business partner?

  119. Zilla Avatar

    I’m curious. When this movie was screened for the hollywood lefties, did they have to pay to get in? No? Strange, Moore charged the families of the Columbine victims to see a pre-release of “bowling”. A real stand up guy there.

  120. To Anon Avatar
    To Anon

    And North Korea ain’t killing anyone? Since when do we need to be the world police. Look at the Congo, what a mess, but we aren’t doing anything there. What about China? Apologist my Ass, it’s all about the oil. A little harder than they thought but they will get what they want in the end, $$$!

  121. simon Avatar

    oh, FUCK OFF, all of you. the level of bullshit here is utterly amazing. and of course, dubya and his cronies really “care” about the iraqi people and the torture victims, right? i guess that’s why they’re trying to bury any REAL investigation of which higher-ups authorized the torture. i guess the bushies really do “care”… they care about how it’ll affect their campaign contributions and the upcoming election. and if michael moore had gone public with those pics, drudge/fox news/new york post – i.e., big (right wing) media – would’ve ripped him a new asshole for it. so again, FUCK off. you people are fucking full of so much shit you can’t even see straight.

  122. JC Avatar

    Moore is a POS not even worth the effort; the moron who said the military probably threatened him (Moore) was way off base; if Moore’s larger-than-Jupiter arse turned up anywhere near a serviceman/woman he’d be full of holes way beyond the one in his head…
    Back to france (lowercase intentional) with you, traitor!

  123. Bill Avatar

    The implication that Michael Moore covered up by failing to reveal photos of Abu Ghraib during the making of his movie is a bunch of baloney and a feeble attempt to deflect blame from where it really belongs, the US Government and the DOD. It’s clear there were warnings by the Red Cross, other international agencies and conscientious soldiers themselves months before Rumsfeld and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs Gen Meyers let the rabid cat out of the bag. Go to the government?….what a laugh! They wouldn’t have come clean were it not for SIxty Minutes.

  124. simon Avatar

    By the way, I am a total fucktard

  125. Paul Avatar

    America is turning out to be the true Murderous Regime. How many Iraqis have died since the war?
    How many of our own children are dying over there for Dubya and Co.?

  126. whaaaa??? Avatar
    whaaaa???

    Geez, why can’t you guys be this angry about Bob Novak? You know, out a CIA agent and then play the old won’t reveal sources. Shouldn’t Bobbie reveal the source for the good of the country, and I mean OUR country, that is, if Moore is supposed to think of the Iraqi people, why can’t Novak think of us?

  127. simon Avatar

    Perhaps we should have just let them all bake in the hell of Saddam’s furnace? You’re a wanker Paul, and a moron…. F the Iraqi’s… They don’t have the brains to appreciate freedom… They deserve Odei and his torture chambers!!!!

  128. luigi Avatar

    HH,
    even if Moore’s books did contain “lies” (which they didn’t as far as I know, can you cite one?), the thing is, HE IS NOT THE PRESIDENT OF THE USA. idiot.

  129. simon Avatar

    Moron!!!! The CIA broad was a f’n secratary…who cares?

  130. simon Avatar

    So this is where all the Deaniac losers went after their binge! Losers!

  131. Paul Avatar

    Simon you are the true idiot, the true representative of the American Empire.
    Democracy has died.

  132. LK Avatar

    When private citizens have evidence of a crime and do not disclose it for “fear they won’t be believed” it’s called obstruction of justice and you can actually be indicted as an accessory.
    When a fat ass has evidence of a crime and doesn’t disclose it for “fear it would be viewed as a publicity stunt” it’s cheered and justified?????
    What planet are you people from????

  133. simon Avatar

    Simon, you are akin to a Nazi for wishing death and torture upon innocent Iraqis. Stick your head back in the sand and hope you are not next!

  134. JAMIE Avatar

    MICHEAL MOORE COULDN’T HAVE STOPPED THE ABUSE BY RELEASING PHOTOS. BY THE TIME HE GOT THOSE PHOTOS, THE ADMINISTRATION HAD LONG KNOWN ABOUT THE ABUSE. IN FACT, THEY HAD QUIETLY STARTED TAKING CARE OF THE MATTER. GO LOOK AT THE TIMELINE: http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/iraq/abughraib_timeline.html
    THERE IS EVIDENCE THAT THIS ADMINISTRATION IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE ABUSE DUE TO IT’S POLICIES. LOOK AT THIS ARTICLE: http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4989481/site/newsweek/
    THIS IS THE AGE OF INFORMATION. DO YOURSELF AND OTHERS A FAVOR BEFORE YOUR SPREAD IGNORANCE. READ A REAL NEWS ARTICLE, NOT AN EDITORIAL COLUMN; WATCH A REAL NEWS SHOW LIKE FRONTLINE, NOT A PERSONALITY BASED PROGRAM; LISTEN TO A NEWS RADIO SHOW, NOT AN RANT FEST. IT IS OUR RESPONSIBILITY AS PATRIOTIC AMERICANS TO PROTECT OURSELVES AND OUR GOVERNMENT AGAINST EXPLOITATION. POLITICIANS HAVE ALWAYS BEEN KNOWN LIARS. BUSH IS ABSOLUTELY NO EXCEPTION. OUR COUNTRY WAS FOUNDED ON QUESTIONING AUTHORITY. DO YOU LIKE PEOPLE TELLING YOU HOW TO THINK? IT IS EASIER THAT WAY, NO RESEARCH INVOLVED.
    QUESTION AUTHORITY AND QUESTION WHY PEOPLE BELIEVE WHAT THEY DO!

  135. Simon Avatar

    Paul, in case the irony was lost on you, which it most certainly was go back to your goose-stepping and leave Democracy to those who embrace and spread it….

  136. simon Avatar

    Gee Jamie, quoting MSNBC…it *must* be true!
    Get a clue, lady…or go back to the bottle

  137. HH Avatar

    “I doubt there’s a one of you who can honestly say he finds fault with Michael Moore’s action.”
    I honestly find fault with any citizen not putting this footage out there to the media if they had it, waiting instead for it to sweeten their ticket sales. Too bad you didn’t make a bet.

  138. Joel Avatar

    The Leni Refenstahl of the loony left has shown that it is more effective to appear to be a man of the people, a person of character, than to actually be one. How many tortured prisoners are on Moore’s concious because he failed to act earlier?

  139. Pablo Avatar

    Simon, that towel on your head must be blocking your brainwaves. Go live in the wonderful democracy of Iraq, you loser.

  140. HH Avatar

    “these bloggers have actually been to Iraq? Exactly.”
    Name off the bloggers who would go to Iraq if given the chance… must number in the thousands. We know that the writer of Mullings.com has been there for quite a while longer than Moore. But somehow Moore has more credibility because he has “moving pitchers.” Anyone who can’t think critically will hate Bush watching this movie, as you say. But I’ve seen enough critiques (the lies in Dude Where’s My Car alone would make a certain Jon Lovitz character blush) to know he’s full of it.

  141. HH Avatar

    That’s “Country,” not “Car” of course.

  142. HH Avatar

    That’s “Country,” not “Car” of course.

  143. HH Avatar

    Oh yeah one more thing… how does our “Michael was in Iraq” boaster feel about the many pro-U.S. bloggers who have lived in Iraq, both under Saddam and now? I understand that Moore shows footage from Iraq that portrays it as sunshine and rainbows under Hussein. Anyone who wouldn’t walk out in disgust over that Leni Riefenstahl-esque bit of propaganda deserves to be lied to…

  144. John A Avatar

    The government had the photos since at least January, nothing was done. As for “Big Media,” 60 Minutes had them for sometime before airing them, then held back on their airing at the request of the Pentagon, and ultimately only did run with them after they learned the New Yorker was going to scoop them. The Washington Post has all the photographs and refuses to publish them.
    Anyone who says that Moore should have gone to the government or the media is naive.

  145. Steve K. Avatar

    What?! Matt Lauer doing “hard journalism”?! I don’t believe it … I simply refuse to believe it …

  146. HH Avatar

    “so has anyone here seen or read ‘fahrenheit 451’?”
    I have and Ray Bradbury believes Moore to be a fool and an ass for not even trying to contact Bradbury over the title.

  147. Gorgo Avatar

    This blog writer is assinine. Micheal Moore is now respondisble for suppressing photos of Iraqi prisoner abuse committed by US Soldiers and Government contractors. As if somehow the earlier release of these photos would have stopped the abuse. Get a clue.
    This abuse was condoned and expected at the highest levels of our government, from GWB on down, including Cheney, Rumsfield and even Powell. They all knew these tactics were being used, they all condoned or turned a blind eye to these tactics becaue they feel the end justifies the means. If these tactics were being used in the United States, you’d be freaking out about it.
    Wait … they are … ever heard of the “Patriot Act” . . .

  148. Clintok Avatar
    Clintok

    Moore’s next project:
    ‘Dude, where are my shoes ?’
    A story of obesity in America.
    Its about a guy who makes a killing off of other people killing.
    Moore’s current movie was conceived in November of 2001. The World Trade Center was still smoldering.
    The man saw dollar $ign$ as the planes were crashing and the people were jumping – what a hero we have in Michael.
    Good job Michael – where would this country be without you ?

  149. HH Avatar

    60 Minutes held onto it for fact-checking purposes… apples and oranges. Still they reported it and now the media is doing all they can to push the story whether there is news to it or not.

  150. simon Avatar

    Clintok,
    Where would this country be without Michael Moore?
    Swimming in cheeseburgers and fat fries….as he’s clearly eaten all of them, he is, in fact, looking out for all of us and our health…

  151. simon Avatar

    Pablo….
    How dare you insult Arab-Americans with your racist “towel head” comment.
    You, sir, are pathetic and deserve the arse f**king that Robert KKK Byrd gives you nightly

  152. Bob Avatar

    Moore had a moral duty as an American to get the abuse footage to the US Government in December when he saw it firsthand. He dropped the ball and his selfishness hurt us in the War on Terror.

  153. james Avatar

    everyday I speak to alot of people in my line of work, and I live in Texas, which is Bush Republican Country. I hear the comments and utter disdain for Mr Moore from the conservative mouths. I ask them what exactly they dislike about him. I ask them have they seen any of his movies? Every answer is a big NO. So i tend to agree with Mr Moore is that people would say it was a publicity stunt so he was stuck either way. Most of the people would never see his movie anyway that would have considered it a publicity stunt. Conservatives would rather keep their heads up someones butt before they would ever investigate propaganda on either side of the political spectrum and decide for themselves. By the way i am a conservative republican but have lost faith in Bush.

  154. Joel Avatar

    Have any of you “no secrets in government” types established the connection yet between the unbelievably non-stop reporting of prisoner abuse in Abu Ghraib and the reaction of Al Queda / Iraqi terrorists? Nick Berg…beheaded, U.S. civilian workers in Saudi, murdered, one U.S. soldier captured (hopefully still living), and another U.S. civilian threatened with execution. In World War II, most civilians understood “loose lips sink ships” as a means of protecting U.S. forces worldwide. While there are U.S. citizens in dangerous places throughout the world, all those who feel the need to demonize Americans will have the blood of their fellow citizens on their hands. Michael Moore will no longer have the freedom to spew his propaganda if it is not protected from the Islamic Facists who want to see us all dead or converted.

  155. John A Avatar

    This Simon is quite a character. He’s boisterous, strident, obnoxious, and ignorant. And, a good reason to bale from this site.

  156. cc spruce Avatar
    cc spruce

    Moor did exactly the right thing. When Matt Lauer suggested that his show would have aired abuse pictures if Moor had brought it to them, he reallly didn’t know what he was talking about. Look, there are so many terrible images and videos are not shown here in the US media about Iraq and other places, simply because the media didn’t consider it was the appropriate information to show the american public. For example, why do we see so little images of Israel demolishing Palestinian homes? Why don’t we see images of how difficult life it is for Palestinian people nowadays due to Israel occupation? Such images would surely raise american public interest in resolving the current Israel-Palestinian conflict. The Bush administration don’t want public to be interested in this conflict because in their mind, the Israelis are gaining an up-hand on the conflict. And of course, the media goes along with that strategy.
    Matt Lauer should know better that whatever program we see on TV is pre-approved by somebody “upstairs”. Media censorship is alive in america!
    It was really brilliant move for Moor to hold off these pictures until 60 min exposed the story. Otherwise, the righ-wing media would surely discredit these horrific abuse story.
    A great move, Mr. Moor!

  157. Pablo Avatar

    simon says he’s a fucktard, so is Dubya.
    Go spew your rubbish somewhere else.

  158. JC Avatar

    The truth… how odd to hear the truth when it comes to something, anything associated with the war in Iraq.
    When Moore was interviewed by Roger Ebert at Cannes he said he was sorry he didn’t come forward with the pictures…
    I believe him. This is horrible, the attrocities allowed by the Bush/Rumsfeld administration will finally be put to rest as we have our second “one and out” Bush presidency in November.
    Cheers

  159. Damien Avatar

    Why was it Moore’s duty to inform the gov’t? At that point, the Red Cross had already sent numerous reports to the Pentagon warning of prisoner abuses… and they failed to act.
    You may not like M. Moore for his politics, but it’s quite a stretch to blame him for the continuation of prisoner abuses.

  160. Knabetnom Avatar
    Knabetnom

    Yeah, right. Because Moore didn’t show the photos, all the abuse is his fault.
    No one wants to hear from him and then all of a sudden, everyone says, “why didn’t we hear from you.”

  161. Howard Stern Avatar
    Howard Stern

    Dubya and Clear Channel can kiss my ass! He’s gone this next election!

  162. Clintok Avatar
    Clintok

    Alright Gorgo – state your case.
    How did you link the harrassment of insurgent prisoners (and it was harrassment, if you want to see torture, watch the videos of Saddams men throwing men off buildings and pulling their tongues out) to the patriot act ?
    Why are you appologizing for men who break the Geneva convention by participating in terrorism, considering that you are so concerned about it being followed ? From what you wrote – it seems that you dont care whether or not the enemy follows the conventions, only America. I didn’t read anything in your post concerning their multiple violations of it ( civilian uniforms, roadside bombs, weapons in Mosques, etc etc)Remember that when they break that sacred convention – they are not subject to its protection. The become enemy combatants. Enemy combatants are not subject to the Geneva convention, nor should they be. Save your speech about all of them being farmers. It will only fall on deaf ears. There is not one insurgent in that country, only a bunch of innocent farmers. Right?
    We are heading back to the same state of denial we were in on September 10th 2001 by castigating and vilifying those who are trying to defeat terrorism. I wont shed one tear the next time this country is attacked. If the lessons on 9-11 were not learned – we will certainly get future opportunities. Thanks to people trying to water down the response to terrorism. Gorgo – this means you.

  163. fat kid Avatar

    What a tremendous waste of time this argument is turning into.
    John A, got your back – I’m thumbin it too.

  164. tony Avatar

    he doesnt trust mass media? why did he agree to an interview with Matty Baby?

  165. John a Avatar

    Right, “Islamic Facists” are around every corner waiting to kill Americans. Such “Sunday School nonsense.” Did it ever occured to Joel that the United States has done some things that have hurt and angered people in other countries — e.g., Arabs — and that’s why they hate us. (Maybe if we stop doing offensive things, they’ll stop with the terrorist attackes.)
    Joel’s right that freedom is certainly on it’s way out. Not by the doings of “Islamic Facists,” as he may think, but by the hand of his hero’s in the Bush administration.

  166. tony Avatar

    he doesnt trust mass media? why did he agree to an interview with Matty Baby?

  167. Liselle Avatar
    Liselle

    It doesn’t matter that his face is one only a mother could love. It doesn’t matter what he believes. It doesn’t matter what kind of brainwashing propaganda he publishes.
    All that matters is he never came forward. He never said, “Look, this is what these soldiers were doing and this is wrong.” Even if the government didn’t listen or the media turned a deaf ear or the tabloids thought it was the next big story since ‘Saddam’s Gay Wedding.’
    He knew something and kept it to himself. Didn’t your mothers (or fathers) ever punish you because you knew something important (and possibly dangerous) and you never told anyone? For instance, you knew a friend was stealing drugs from their family medicine cabinet and giving it to other kids and you had photographic evidence of it, yet developed it and never showed/told a soul.. Well, come time the police get involved, guess who becomes an accessory to the fact?
    But no one seems to make this corrolation. Why? Just because he wants to have his say or not ruin his box office flop .. er, smash.
    No matter what anyone thinks about Michael Moore’s beliefs, he knows about the laws of our country and took no action to prevent the violation or notify the authorities. (Guess what the definition of “accessory to the fact” is?) People go to jail for that, so should he.

  168. Peter Avatar

    he doesnt belive in mass media? however, he is releasing not to mention producing, directing and writing a movie through Miramax which is owned by Disney. Disney is one of the largest media conglomerates in the world. Thanks. Nice call Tony
    Im out

  169. No Balls Dubya Avatar
    No Balls Dubya

    Too bad no one has the balls to confront Dubya with an interview on why the prisoner abuse was not released to the public when he knew about it far before MM did.

  170. Jimbo Avatar

    COUP D’ETAT:
    The Real Reason Tenet and Pavitt Resigned from the
    CIA on June 3rd and 4th
    Bush, Cheney Indictments in Plame Case Looming
    http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/060804_coup_detat.html

  171. Jennifer Avatar
    Jennifer

    Michael Moore is small potatoes.
    I love how everyone says he should have done this or that with his pics, he doesn’t run the country does he? What crime has he committed that is more egregious than our own president? All of you calling for his arrest should arrest the prez too, someone in such a high post should pay more dearly for their sins against humanity than a film maker.

  172. Paul Avatar

    Just show me some nipples during a football game and I will forget all about Iraq and even Michael Moore!

  173. Justin Avatar

    i don’t think its really a question of what the public has to say about you or anyhting when you believe in something. If he did believe in helping the Iraqi’s then he should have let someone in media break the story early. Even at the cost of his movie being hurt. Hleping others and really believing in something is bigger than what people might think.

  174. John A Avatar

    Good point Jenifer.
    Can someone answer this:
    1. Why hasn’t the Pentagon released the photos?
    2. Why hasn’t the Washington Post released the photos?
    3. What has the release of the few photos out now accomplished?

  175. Don Avatar

    Damn Michael Moore needs to loose weight, he is starting to look like Jabba the Hut, where is Princess Leia…?

  176. The Pentagon Avatar
    The Pentagon

    John,
    Because we are all watching nipples and gay marriage on tv!
    Sincerely,
    The Pentagon

  177. Howie Avatar

    The pentagon is right, who wants to see photos of soldiers and naked men restrained/tortured being attacked by dogs, when Janet Jackson is showing some skin at a major sporting event?!! Give me that remote!

  178. Owp Avatar

    Michael Moore is a sleazy piece of shit. I know first hand because my company was very wrongly profiled by his crap show The Awful Truth. It was an Awful LIE and he knew it, but he went ahead and did the story anyway. Some standards and ethics huh Mike. It could have caused many of our employees to have lost their jobs but I’m sure Fat Mike would have hired them, oh whats that, Thats right, you don’t employee anyone, you just abuse those that do.
    Keep beliving his crap you dumb Lemmings. He will lead you right into the arms of the enemy…

  179. John A Avatar

    I guess the remarks to my posted questions are in themselves answers: That most Americans are unthinking sheep who get the goverment and society the deserve.

  180. Peggy Avatar

    A better question…. Why didn’t the government blow open the case on the abuse going on in the Iraqi prisons? They were aware of what was going on and should have been the ones to come forth with it.

  181. John A Avatar

    RE: “He will lead you right into the arms of the enemy…” There’s a lot of paranoia about enemies going on. Frankly, I don’t have nightmares about the enemy — whoever that may be. Actually, if anything, it’s the goverment that worries me.

  182. HH Avatar

    You’re out to lunch if you think the same left-wing press which parades abu Ghraib pictures out 24/7, stopping grudgingly to note that a president died, wouldn’t have reported on Moore’s footage.

  183. Shot Avatar

    Oh come now… you gonna blame Mike Moore for this abuse scandal?
    Get Real! Go after the administration.

  184. HH Avatar

    “why did he agree to an interview with Matty Baby?”
    Mikey hates them except when he needs them to line his pockets.

  185. John A Avatar

    A plaque at the bottom of the Statue of Liberty with words from Ben Franklin reads:
    Those who would trade liberty for safety deserve neither.

  186. HH Avatar

    “There’s a lot of paranoia about enemies going on. Frankly, I don’t have nightmares about the enemy — whoever that may be. Actually, if anything, it’s the goverment that worries me.”
    I’ve seen many comments like this. Not three years ago this “imaginary enemy” killed 3000 people. You tell their families that the enemy is that imaginary… and make sure you talk to the non-left-wing-press-approved families who are marched out to bash Bush every other day.

  187. John A Avatar

    HH sounds like a broke-dick who doesn’t like people who make money. Something wrong with “lining your pokets” HH? Dick Cheney and Haliburton as well as myself disagree.
    BTW, you call the coverage of Reagan last week “stopping grudgingly to note that a president died,” It looked more to me like Reagan 24/7. I think your suffering from a severe loss of objectivity.

  188. John A Avatar

    HH I live less than a mile from ground zero. The WTC attack was terrible, but a one of a kind event. Not to say that further attacks can’t happen. All I’m saying is I think the whole terrorist threat, especially from Iraq, is way over-blown.
    One thing I wouldn’t want to do is compare the number of innocent people killed by the U.S. around the world with the number of people who died in the WTC. The U.S. is responsible for far more death, maiming, destruction, utter misery, and unimaginable cruelty than any terror group.

  189. Danny V Avatar
    Danny V

    I wonder if Mr. Moore has any photos or film of the execution of Nick Berg or his executioners. Maybe he also has film of Paul Johnson and his captors. He’s proably waiting for his next film to share that with us?

  190. shell Avatar

    Doesn’t anyone remember that by the time CBS got around to reporting the story, it was because courts martial were already in progress?

  191. b Avatar

    some remember. but not most

  192. John A Avatar

    Danny, so what if he does? The one thing you can be sure of is if he has it so does the White House.
    I hope he uses everything he can get his hands on in “his next film.” And, I hope he makes a fortune doing it too. It provides a nice incentive for others to expose what actually happening in the world too.
    Don’t wait for the government to tell you.

  193. John A Avatar

    Shell, what’s the point? There’s supposed to be a point to a post.

  194. Mike Avatar

    John A, you’re an a**. 9/11 was a one of a kind event? That statement just goes to show what kind of ignorant person you really are. Do us all a favor and go to some other website like you first stated. Only a jack-a** leftist hack could compare the US to terrorists. Do I need to list the numerous amount of terrorist attacks committed by Al Queda? Give us all a break and go back to writing for moveon.org!

  195. bozo Avatar

    poo

  196. John A Avatar

    Yes, please list the first 5 or 6 Al Queda terrorist attacks in the U.S. that come to your mind.
    FYI: The U.S. has been committing act of terror and supporting states that engage in terrorism throughout the 20th century.
    You seem to be brainwashed.

  197. onecent Avatar
    onecent

    John A, the Pentagon acknowledged the abuse and charged the perpetrators accordingly. Remember? What would be the point of releasing photos that would only put at risk our troops in Iraq? Most reasonable and mature people can grasp that concept. And, why the need for more photos? The media didn’t give you enough salacious images? It only takes a few photos to grasp a concept. Remember the Holocaust and 9/11 photos? Your inferrence of duplicity by the Pentagon and WaPo is stupid.
    Here’s another thought to try grasping, our government didn’t abuse the prisoners, a handful of rogue hicks did. If that reality still doesn’t stick in your brain, then you really have surrendered to a paranoia that the vast majority of us aren’t experiencing.

  198. John A Avatar

    Mike, now that you’ve asked me to leave, I’ll stay.

  199. John A Avatar

    Onecent (net worth?):
    1. “the Pentagon acknowledged the abuse and charged the perpetrators accordingly. Remember?”
    No, actually I don’t remember that. I remember that the story was exposed by Sy Hersh, among others and only then was the point conceded.
    2. “What would be the point of releasing photos that would only put at risk our troops in Iraq?”
    Full disclosure — trust, but vwerify. They didn’t tell the public about it in the first place, why should I believe them when they say it’s just more of the same. And if it is, how does that put troops at risk?

  200. Danny V Avatar
    Danny V

    John,
    The point is he failed to act responsibly. If he did have the info as he says and he did not divulge it then he is culpable. No better than the “White House” that you malign. However the real issue with Mr. Moore’s lack of disclosure comes from his desire to discredit the current administration and make money. I embrace the same freedoms that Mr. Moore enjoys both to make a living and political choice. However, his choice contradicts those values that are widely believed to transcend political and fiscal boundaries

  201. Ryan Avatar

    I would tend to agree that Moore is small potatoes in the whole shameful torture episode.
    However, crap like this puts the lie to the image that Moore thinks of anyone but himself and his place. Same with the fake Disney is censoring me crap. Anything to plug the movie and add to its prestige. The movie and its place in “history” is what is the most important, everything else is secondary.

  202. Ryan Avatar

    “Yes, please list the first 5 or 6 Al Queda terrorist attacks in the U.S. that come to your mind.”
    Nice qualifier you added there….there have been attacks on the US outside the our borders. You know that so you change the terms to bolster your original argument…..Michael is that you?

  203. John A Avatar

    Danny V:
    Questions.
    1. What is MM “culpable” of?
    2. How did I “malign” the White House?
    3. What wrong with “discrediting” the “current administation”?
    4. What’s wrong with making money on it? (That what the New Yorker, 60 minutes and the Wash Post did with the pictures.
    5. Are they culpable too? They held the pictures for a time before publishing them.
    6. What “value transcend” political boundries? (FYI: “Fiscal” refers to government, not private, revenue and expenditures, so it’s n/a.)

  204. keefer fm MD Avatar
    keefer fm MD

    I think mikey moron is a much ado about nothing subject. His lies won’t serve to swing any votes from President Bush to Lurch Kerry. He has his following: the kook left-wing fringe which is trying to hijack the Democrat Party.
    It is unbelievable what the prez is up against this year–the Hollywood left, the partisan media, and all the bummed-out Deaniacs. I hope and pray that America is aware of what is at stake here.

  205. paul Avatar

    Michael Moore is a partisan hack. I am certain he has deeply held beliefs that drive his actions, unfortunately, those do not include integrity and honesty.
    He has proven again and again that he has no desire to correct a situation, only bitch and moan about it so that he can help “get his guy elected”. If he really wanted to fix things, he would have exposed the abuse photos as soon as he could verify their authenticity. What about that one individual who suffered the behavior of those thugs the day after Moore could have blown the whistle and stopped the abuse. What if Moore interviewed the perps at Columbine prior to their rampage, hearing their plans for the “abuse” of others but failed to inform anyone because of his distrust of the media.
    He either didn’t have the photos ahead of time (my belief) or has no morals. Either way, his behavior is reprehensible.
    The dems do nothing for their cause by holding hom in such high regard, other than secure the donations of the elitists in Hollywood (yeah, they represent the opinions of the masses).
    There will be a lot of surprise folks (hardcore dems) the morning after election day……….

  206. John A Avatar

    Ryan
    Okay, I’m busted. You clever fellow, you caught me on the qualifier: “in the U.S.” You’re right, there haven’t been “5 or 6” Al Queda terrorist attacks in the U.S.
    So, go ahead and just name the ones you know of worldwide (cite your source, of course). And, while your at it, include the time frame. And then, just for kicks, compare the death toll to lightening strike victims over the same time period and tell me which statistical pool you’d prefer to be in.
    Thanks.

  207. John A Avatar

    Ryan
    Okay, I’m busted. You clever fellow, you caught me on the qualifier: “in the U.S.” You’re right, there haven’t been “5 or 6” Al Queda terrorist attacks in the U.S.
    So, go ahead and just name the ones you know of worldwide (cite your source, of course). And, while your at it, include the time frame. And then, just for kicks, compare the death toll to lightening strike victims over the same time period and tell me which statistical pool you’d prefer to be in.
    Thanks.

  208. John A Avatar

    Ryan
    Okay, I’m busted. You clever fellow, you caught me on the qualifier: “in the U.S.” You’re right, there haven’t been “5 or 6” Al Queda terrorist attacks in the U.S.
    So, go ahead and just name the ones you know of worldwide (cite your source, of course). And, while your at it, include the time frame. And then, just for kicks, compare the death toll to lightening strike victims over the same time period and tell me which statistical pool you’d prefer to be in.
    Thanks.

  209. Pablo Avatar

    Guys,
    Quit yer whining, we have gay marriages and nipples on tv to worry about!
    Oh yeah, isn’t capitalism part of democracy?
    At least MM still gets a paycheck! And so does Halliburton/Cheney/Bush Co.!

  210. onecent Avatar
    onecent

    Yes, please list the first 5 or 6 Al Queda terrorist attacks in the U.S. that come to your mind.
    Count them yourself. Counting the first WTC bombing in 1993, plus attacks on vessels and embassies, which count as US soil under international law/customs, the death toll on Americans by AQ has been significant. That the attacks were offshore didn’t make them any less deadly to the American citizens that were killed.
    No, actually I don’t remember that
    You don’t remember much, do you? You shoot off your mouth with ridiculous diatribes and have no facts at hand. But, then that’s more fun for you than doing a simple Google search. Try recent court martials. Facts are less fallable than memory, bud. And you are ignorable without them.

  211. John A Avatar

    Keefer:
    Talk about the constituencies of the parties, who makes up Bush supporters?
    1. Wacko neo-cons hell-bent on world domination.
    2. The oil and defense industries (where I’m happily and heavily invested).
    3. Zealot fundementalist/evangelical Christiians looking to advance God Revelations calender with the war in Iraq.
    There’s a group I want to socialize with at a party!

  212. JC Tripp Avatar

    This is America, you have the right to promote yourself! Where is the shame in this? How could one be so ignorant, in a capitalist and free society, one has the right to generate interest about their ideas or products. This is America, wake up? Do you think all of John Ashcroft’s press conferences on terrorism were to stop terror? Do you think Bush’s flying outrageous stunt on a US Carrier, declaring “Mission Accomplished” was to stop people from dieing. The major media knew there were abuses going on, they just didn’t have the balls to go against Big Brother, who might mess with their right to continue their conglomeration. Dude, where is my country? What happpend? Why are there so many Bush-pussies out there? This guy is a complete sham, an idiot, a fascist and a coward. Michael Moore is standing up for US, that’s the U.S. Wake da F&#K Up or you’re going down with the whole damn show!

  213. Bozeman Avatar
    Bozeman

    This comment is foolish. If he had come forward with those photos you are exactly the kind of person who would, on that very same day, have posted a withering comment on this site saying he was only doing it to promote his movie. He’s damned if he does and damned if he doesn’t, like all public figures in today’s age, when all discourse has degenerated into spin and counterspin, and when prejudiced opinion has replaced inquiry in every place we look.

  214. B. Smith Avatar
    B. Smith

    This is a perfect example of how the biggest concern to Michael Moore is Michael Moore. It’s about how much money and publicity he can get for his movie. He is no better that all of the Republicans that he slams.

  215. John A Avatar

    Onecent:
    The only reason I said “list them” is because someone said “do I have to name them?” So I said “yes.”
    What I don’t remember is (“…charged the perpetrators accordingly. Remember?”) the perpatrator being charged accodingly. In other words, I don’t think those were all the perpatrators. I think their are more.
    1. If the are more than 1,700 photos, I’d be surpriosed if all he photos are of only those “hicks” that have been charged so far.
    2. I think there’s soem vertical culpability too — up, way up, the change of command, perhaps right into the White House.
    BTW, what “facts” are you you refering to?

  216. Go Mike! Avatar
    Go Mike!

    Viva capitalism!

  217. Fly Lines. Avatar
    Fly Lines.

    Those photos have been floating around the newsroom for months. CBS was withholding for weeks for a “Special” they had worked up for it. Its our journalists who should be ashamed that high profile Moore was able to drudge up the information first, rather then a hard hitter like the NY Times and Fox “News”.

  218. BFD Avatar

    Everyone in this has an agenda, left or right. moore’s is clear as our’s are. We are pawns and the media moves us around effortlessly. Garbage in, garbage out.

  219. Brandi Avatar

    Give me a break, if Moore cared about the Iraqis as much as the Republicans, he’d have killed them himself!

  220. Brian McIntyre Avatar
    Brian McIntyre

    What Michael Moore said in response to the “Why didn’t you release them earlier” was “To whom?”. Lauer, predictably, said he could’ve released them to NBC, or possibly the DOD (another reason to not trust the media, because the DOD should’ve been mentioned first, don’t you think?). To this, Moore said he didn’t trust “big media”, and added that he isn’t an investigative branch of the DOD.
    It’s not a cover-up. You people want to nail Moore as having an agenda, right? Of course he has an agenda, and he hasn’t tried to hide that aspect of his message. When he comes out and states that he has a taped interview with Nicholas Berg, it’s the stance of the right that he’s lying, or will use to improve his film’s gate. What did he do with that footage? He gave it, along with a “lovely note” to the family of Nicholas Berg, who themselves were skeptical of it’s existence. The fact is, this movie is going to be huge. Regardless of the amount of attention he draws to it, people are going to go see this film. Furthermore, Michael Moore will be right there to debate the facts raised in this film. Can George W. Bush do the same? Who else is Bush going to parade for the morning talk shows to dispute the findings of the 9/11 commission? Who else is he going to sacrifice to justify a war that nobody wanted, that nobody needed and that a thousand young, brave Americans died for? To me, the answers to those questions are far more important than a filmmaker’s response on the Today show.
    Has the time not come for American’s to wake up and realize that we’re continually lied to by our President’s administration? You’re making Michael Moore the villain here, when the most villainous figure in this film is the President himself.

  221. Paul Avatar

    I might be a wacko, but not a neocon
    not with the oil industry
    not a christian zeaolt
    I must have slipped thru the cracks to get my republican status.
    As for damned if you do/don’t, then the right thing to do is err on the side of protecting humans, not your paycheck. If he is so driven by principle. I would have thought he ‘d take that “damned” position….

  222. Idread Avatar

    I’d ask Matty why didn’t he ask the Army why they didn’t stop it, considering they knew FIRST.
    I don’t trust bigmedia, they’ve all but let the euro newsies publish all the major stories concerning our Government and the War.
    Michael Moore isn’t responsible for what Bush has ordered, and seeing that it took an act of a lonely beaten soldier who wasn’t embedded press. I wonder how long it took him to get his story out and did a major handle it????

  223. Jared Avatar

    Why would you release something to the government that the government already knows about? Rumsfeld knew about the abuses for months and months before it was released. If Moore had released those reports to the today show I WOULD have accused him of a stunt, that’s not where stories of this nature should be broken, they should be broken by the government!!!
    Besides, nobody at the white house or DOD would have returned his calls anyway.
    Don’t bash Moore, he’s not the one doing the covering up.

  224. Mike Timmons Avatar
    Mike Timmons

    All these people bashing Moore for not exposing the torture support the selected President’s policy of TORTURE. What a bunch of “F”ing hypocrites!
    It must really hurt when your train of logic slams into the jingoistic partisanship inside your cerebral cortex.

  225. Bob Avatar

    Unfortuantely for most in this crowd, Mike Moore’s loyalty is placed in something that is beyond the perception of most that oppose his views; the truth.

  226. Michael Avatar
    Michael

    I’ve been a Repbulican my whole life, and have never once voted for a Democrat.
    But, I don’t like Bush, his neocon administration, his wars, his foreign ploicy, or his strident, stubborn and dense attitude.
    I still can’t believe it, but, I was so moved by my dislike for Bush & Co. that I contributed $2,000 to the Kerry’s campaign and $5,000 to moveon.org. And I pray everyday that Bush is defeated in Nov.
    I know … my taxes will go up and a liberal agenda will be advanced, but certain things transcend my personal interests and political desires for government. Before country and political party, I’m a human being.
    What’s happened in Iraq is illegal and immoral, and it must be stopped — before we start WWIII. After that, I’ll be back on the reservation advocating conservative/libertarian politics. But for now, there’s something more important.
    Go MM!

  227. Michael Avatar
    Michael

    See my post above (Posted by Michael at June 16, 2004 06:36 PM).
    Am I alone in feeling this way? Are there others out there who feel the same way?

  228. Michael Avatar
    Michael

    Wow, I must have killed the discussion (see me above, 3 posts in a row). So who won?

  229. Jon Avatar

    ALL LIBERALS OR MORONS, NO EXCEPTIONS THERE. MOORE IS A FAT PIECE OF SHIT LIAR. ALGORE DID SAY HE INVENTED THE INTERNET BECAUSE HE’S A DUMB SHIT. MOORE IS A DISGUSTING SHIT HEAD. HE’S SO UGLY THAT EVEN HIS FAME CANT GET HIM LAID. WHAT A LOSER!!!

  230. luigi Avatar

    wowzers. and with that Jon proves just how retarded conservatives are.

  231. Michael Avatar
    Michael

    Wow, Jon, that was articulate. Where does one begin to respond. I guess one doesn’t. All this time I was hoping someone would come on with a remark that I could debate. But, I don’t think yours qualifies.

  232. Jon Avatar

    HEY MICHAEL,
    YOU WERE NEVER A REPUBLICAN. THERE IS NOTHING ILLEGAL OR IMMORAL ABOUT ENDING A MAD MANS GENOCIDE AGAINST HIS OWN PEOPLE AND NEIGHBORING COUNTRIES. IF HITLER WAS ALIVE IN MODERN TIMES, ASSHOLES LIKE YOU WOULD HAVE CRITICIZED ANY REPUBLICAN MOVE AGAINST A MONSTER LIKE THAT CITING SOME INSANE REASON FOR NOT RIDDING THE WORLD OF THAT MONSTER. WAKE UP LIBERAL PUKES..SADDAM IS AS BAD AS HITLER.
    WHY ARE LIBERALS SOOOOOO STUPID????

  233. Michael Avatar
    Michael

    BTW, Jon, do I fall into your definition of a liberal? (see post at 06:36 PM)

  234. Pablo Avatar

    Jon is the epitome of what is wrong with this country. He should be living in Iraq.

  235. Michael Avatar
    Michael

    Hey Jon:
    If that’s true why didn’t Reagan declare war on him? Why did Rumsfeld go to Bagdad to talk with him? Why did we back him against Iraq? Why didn’t we invade Ruwanda? When will we attack Saudi Arabia, Syria, Iran, Korea, Sudan and China?

  236. Jon Avatar

    Mike,
    You are a liberal….you can deny it all you want but no Republican would ever vote for a radical like Kerry.
    I bet you think algore is a smart man..He’s not. W is far from dense, only a liberal would say that. Anyone who thinks it’s ok for a taxes to go up and the liberal agenda to go forward is a liberal.
    I’m sure you denied your homosexuality for many years as well. But at some time you have to come out of the closet.

  237. Jon is a loser Avatar
    Jon is a loser

    Bush is the modern day Hitler!

  238. Jon Avatar

    Hey Pablo,
    Go back to Mexico you filthy wetback

  239. Michael Avatar
    Michael

    Jon seems to have a serious problem. He obviously has some pent-up resentments and frustrations that are making him very angery.
    Jon, why don’t you tell us what’s on your mind?

  240. Pablo Avatar

    Fuck you Jon, we filthy wetbacks are invading your country, fuck those rag heads… get ready to speak Spanish motherfucker!

  241. Jon Avatar

    Only a liberal crack smoking freak would have the nerve to call Bush the modern day hitler. I bet you liberal pukes see nothing wrong with hussein. Guess what jerkoffs, hussein is a mass murderer and GW did the only moral thing he could do and that was a remove the queer from power.
    If that’s true why didn’t Reagan declare war on him? Why did Rumsfeld go to Bagdad to talk with him? Why did we back him against Iraq? Why didn’t we invade Ruwanda? When will we attack Saudi Arabia, Syria, Iran, Korea, Sudan and China?
    Oh, and to answer Mikeys questions:
    1. Reagan was too busy single handidly destroying the evil Soviet Union
    2. Rumsfeld tried one more attempt to resolve things peacefully (something Clinton could not do)
    3. We should attack the other countries, unfortunately Korea already has nukes thanks to that dickhead clinton. GW is the only guy willing to stand up for what he believes in, which is ridding the world of terrorists

  242. Jon Avatar

    Hey Pablo,
    I need someone to clean my house and wash my car….I’ll pay you 50 cents a month to do these things for me. Thats probably a lot mroe money that you are used to earnng in Mexico. What will you do with all the extra cash, you filthy wetback

  243. Michael Avatar
    Michael

    Jon:
    You really don’t know much about politics do you? Kerry is no “radical,” just a wishy-washy liberal, who probably won’t do much damage either way. Bush on the other hand is dangerous. And, Jon, you know what, Bush is a liberal too. He’s done little to advance the conservative/libvertarian agenda. And, he’s spent more money than any liberal, including Al Gore, would have.
    By the way, how’d you know Pablo’s from Mexico? Didn’t your mother ever tell you that name calling isn’t nice, and that people get bitch-slapped for talking like that?

  244. Jon Avatar

    And to answer Gay Mikes statement…I’m not angry, I leave the anger issues to the all the groups that the white man is keeping down.

  245. Michael Avatar
    Michael

    Pablo:
    I glad you said that to Jon.
    BTW, I already speak Spanish and I don’t mind you guys being here a bit. Hope you don’t mind my oceanside villa in Costa Rica.

  246. raz Avatar

    michael — interesting post. good to see that someone from the right is acknowledging that the left might have a legitimate beef here. i have swung right at times, depending on the issue. i too see a fuck-up of monumental proportions going on and it should be stopped regardless of party. the dems asked LBJ not to run again and he listened. you think the gop would turn against W?

  247. Jim Avatar

    Jon needs to sit his fat ass down, take some prozac and get back to sticking his head up his ass. Racist assholes like him give Americans a bad name.

  248. Michael Avatar
    Michael

    Raz:
    I’ve often thought that would be the only dignified thing for Bush to do. But, I think we’ve got a better chance of him starting another war than not doing everything humanly possible to retain power.

  249. Michael Avatar
    Michael

    Jon:
    Is 50 cents all you can afford to pay Pablo for his hard work. That figures. Where’s someone as ignorant as you gonna come up with any real money.
    Jon, it gives me great pleasure to tell you that I am a multi-millionaire who just this month took down about $350,000. Just think Jon, you’ll work ten years for that, and never-ever even smell the kind of money I’ve already made in my 46 years. And, you know what, I’ve rather give it away in taxes than see anyone Nazi-bastard like you you, e.g., GWB, in the U.S. Presidency.
    But, come to think of it, you’d probably make a good security guard. You could work for me, but don’t worry, I’ll pay you 10 times more than you’re willing to pay Pablo.

  250. Pablo Avatar

    Jon, I really should be a republican because I make more money that most people on the planet.
    However I don’t believe that Bush is our savior from terror. Why aren’t there any other world leaders supporting his cause then? Because he is a wannabe dictator for a a bible thumping nation.
    He’s no better than Bin Laden, except Bin is in a cave somewhere.
    Pablo (I’m really 1/2 American and 1/2 South African not Mexican)

  251. charlie eklund Avatar

    Jeff mentions in a later post that the Drudge link brought him 12,000 hits an hour for the first couple of hours.
    Looks like it lowered the average IQ here on the Buzz by a similarly lofty figure if the comments posted by Michael Moore’s…ahem…interesting…fans are a reliable indicator.
    Michael Moore and the term “reliable” in the same sentence? What was I thinking?

  252. Michael Zimmer Avatar
    Michael Zimmer

    Charlie, you might want to re-read some of those comments. A lack of intelligence can be found in posts from both Moore’s supporters and detractors.

  253. Michael Avatar
    Michael

    Charlie Ekhund: I’m sure you have a good reason for saying that “Michael Moore fans” are not “reliable,” would you mind explaining what that reason is?
    Also, while you’re at it, do you think that because someone is not critical of MM for not disclosing the photos he claims to have had, they support his view?
    Do you think that if someone opposes the Bush or the Iraq war they have a lesser IQ.
    (This is like a little IQ test, let’s hope you pass.)

  254. Michael Avatar
    Michael

    Pablo: You say you really should be a Republican because you make good money. Let me remind you that a lot of non-Republican make big money and have no desire to be Republicans — e.g., George Soros. Besides, George Bush is no consevative, he’s a big government neo-con — i.e., liberal hawk.

  255. syn Avatar

    Michael Moore is a master at getting people to believe his lies are truth without ever having to say a word.
    Sheeple people strike again and Michael Moore gets to move to a bigger and better NYC Upper West Side multi-million dollar pad.
    Groovy. Michael is lookin out for the man.
    I am so over Michael Moore.

  256. Sam Avatar

    I find it funny how the right continues to play into moore’s hands. You are giving him exactly what he wants be feeling threatened.

  257. elheebo Avatar
    elheebo

    I long for the good old days when guys like Fred Wiseman made what could authentically be called documentary films. Now we have MM that goes into a bank, picks out his gun for opening a new account, then cut to the scene of him waving it in the air outside. He doesn’t of course tell us that there is a lengthy waiting period while state and local authorities do a background check-impossible to walk out with gun in hand right after opening an account. Then there’s the gem of the interview with Charlton Heston. What he doesn’t tell us is that Kayla Rolland was shot by a boy that was thrown out by his drug-addicted mother, only to move in with his uncle in a crack house where he found a stolen gun under a pile of blankets that served as his bed. If Moore is trying to tell us that every child has the right to grow up in a gun-free crack house, I agree.

  258. Michael Avatar
    Michael

    I don’t understand why so many mainly rabid Republicans become so consternated about Michael Moore. It’s also ironic how these supposed “Republicans” lament MM making money. All the sudden earning money is a sin?
    I think the stereotypical Republican has changed, or a different Republican face has emerged. No longer is the Republican poster boy that of the 1994 Republican Revolution — affluent secular corporate earner or investor advocating limited government, free-markets and individual rights.
    The “new” Republican is now in the lower-end of the income and wealth strata, regionally southern or countrified, driving old pick-up trucks not new BMWs, more interested in military action than rolling-back government, doing away with the Education Dept. and privatizing Social Security. Indeed, it seems the new Republicans have no problem with big government or a moribund stock market at all.
    In addition, they

  259. Ryan Avatar

    “So, go ahead and just name the ones you know of worldwide (cite your source, of course). And, while your at it, include the time frame.”
    Handy dandy MSNBC map for both claimed and suspected Al Queda activities…
    Scroll to the middle of the page.
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5227768/
    “And then, just for kicks, compare the death toll to lightening strike victims over the same time period and tell me which statistical pool you’d prefer to be in.”
    Did I miss something? Did I claim that we should hide under our beds because of the inevitible doom terrorists are about to unleash?
    I would rather not be in either group….since the likelyhood is death.

  260. Buzz Avatar

    Michael:
    We conservatives love the fact that Michael Moore is making money, and certainly American entertainment corporations (like Disney) have figured out that selling anti-Americanism to audiences overseas is a huge growth market. The military will adjust so that this can be done more safely in the future.
    We especially love watching leftist fools buy into the stereotypes of Americans (described as “post-1994 Republicans” in your comment above; yes it had to be rebranded for the domestic audience) provided by Moore hook line and sinker. We know you’ll be purchasing a lot more product in the future.
    Cha CHING!

  261. HH Avatar

    CNN’s Bernard Shaw admitted that their coverage of Reagan was unfair. The NY Times has run abu Ghraib on its front page for a staggering number of days and only stopped because of the momentous news of Reagan’s death.
    The idea that someone who is not the president or vice president cannot be criticized for a severe lack of judgment and for lies doesn’t pass the straight face test.

  262. Michael Avatar
    Michael

    Ryan:
    It appears you missed John A.

  263. Michael Avatar
    Michael

    Buzz:
    I defy you to show me where MM ever described Republican the way I did above (June 17, 2004 12:12 PM). That was an original characterization based on personal observations, which aren’t hard to make. If he steals it, I want a royalty.
    Please explain your comment,

  264. Michael Avatar
    Michael

    HH:
    What

  265. Debbie Harris Avatar
    Debbie Harris

    George Bush and the neocons in his administration mislead us into the unnecessary and illegal invasion and occupation of Iraq. The death, destruction and misery of the war has fallen mostly on defenseless innocent civilians. As sure as Jesus Christ watches over us from Heaven, George Bush will burn in Hell forever for crimes against humanity.

  266. Jonathan Avatar

    It’s not like Moore had a secret source that gave him the photos. Some of the beltway journalists, even Lauer, could have done something called ‘investigative journalism’, if they so desired. They didn’t. They’d rather take dictation from this administration and then blame someone else for their faults.
    Pathetic.

  267. Bbb Avatar

    “[T]he illiteracy level of our children are appalling.”

  268. Buzz Avatar

    Michael:
    Jeez- no sense of humor! I’m going to take a page out of Moore’s playbook and claim “comedian” status for the above comment. I thought it was a staple amongst left leaning commentors that the US military protects US business interests around the world as a rule, and I was calling Michael Moore’s mass marketing of anti-Americanism overseas a money making enterprise worthy of US military protection. Or perhaps you are too invested in the image he has created of himself for you to see the fat multi-millionaire Manhattanite who flies around in private jets and drives bulletproof SUVs?
    Ominous it does sound, but I wasn’t focussed on the killing effect of the US military on folks around the world. The unspoken bit was that Moore’s artistic contributions, built on lies as they demonstrably are, tend to incite folks around the world to want to kill us. Not the French cafe set, of course. Nor even English soccer hooligans. Mainly I am worried about the already conspiracy laden peoples of the Middle East having another demonstrably false conspiracy theory thrown at them.
    But there I go, joking again! Those members of Hezbollah, currently shilling for Moore’s film opening
    (http://film.guardian.co.uk/news/story/0,12589,1240819,00.html)
    in Lebanon, aren’t really interested in killing us. They just want us to know what expert fireworks makers they are right before the 4th of July. Would anyone care for a Jack-in-the-box, made in Syria? Ooops! There I go again with stereotypes. I’m just a “stupid white man”, and a “big fat idiot” after all all, and we all know that the left never plays with crude stereotypes.

  269. Michael Avatar
    Michael

    Buzz:
    Thank you for a somewhat substantive and reasoned response. I concede your remarks did humorously highlight contentions of the left that the U.S. uses military force projection to support big business. Not that I

  270. Ryan Avatar

    “It appears you missed John A.

  271. Buzz Avatar

    Michael:
    You’re right, there’s nothing wrong with being like Michael Moore personally. I had a recent piece by Hitchens in mind, taking note while that Europeans love to castigate Americans for being fat, wasteful, and overly consumptive they have taken to heart Michael Moore who embodies all of those things. I don’t live in Manhattan (though I would love to), used to own an SUV and would have no problem owning another someday, and I am fat ;-) I am perhaps more sensitive to the overseas aspect that because I travel to Europe (Swiss/France) for business quite often.

  272. Michael Avatar
    Michael

    Buzz:
    Thank you for another reasoned and civilized reply (in Ryan I detect some hostility). Allow me to respond by point:
    1. I

  273. Michael Avatar
    Michael

    Ryan:
    What I don

  274. Ryan Avatar

    “What I don

  275. Michael Avatar
    Michael

    Ryan:
    Name-calling really accomplishes nothing and indicates frustration born from your inability to communicate and respond effectively.
    1. Understand this: I am no

  276. Fredrik Avatar
    Fredrik

    The ICRC and Amnesty has been telling the story about abuse and torture wherever the USA has been fucking around with its precious war against terrorism.
    Are you so bloody ignorant that you need images to comprehend a simple message? The US government doesn’t give a rats ass about: 1. international law, 2. human rights, 3. common decency.

  277. Jenni Avatar

    Just curious – have any of you seen this movie?

  278. Michael Avatar
    Michael

    I haven’t, but want to.

  279. Ryan Avatar

    “I

  280. Michael Avatar
    Michael

    Ryan:
    You

  281. Ryan Avatar

    “To say that Pat Buchanan is a Nazi-lover is ridiculous and I defy you to point to where he said words to the effect that,

  282. Michael Avatar
    Michael

    Ryan:
    Thank you for a substantive and persuasive reply. I concede that, in light of the statements cited above (I will assume their veracity), your previous comment that Buchanan thought “Nazis were okay” can be somewhat justified. While I don’t think Buchanan is a Nazi, I think the combination of his bombastic style and iconoclastic nature cause him to appear to be rationalizing things that perhaps would be better left alone. Nonetheless, his columns that I cited from American Conservative magazine and World Net Daily were substantive and persuasive, and on point to the matter at hand.

  283. jim Avatar

    You nailed it dude. I can’t believe it took so long to figure it out. Yes, it’s true, Michael Moore is to blame for the actions of those troops. He could have stopped it all.
    It’s amazing how dumb the blind follow the blind. Quit blaming Moore and open your eyes. It’s amazing how blind the world is.