BuzzMachine

The media pundit's pundit. Written by NYC insider Jeff Jarvis, BuzzMachine covers news, media, journalism, and politics.

Vietnam

14 comments on Vietnam

Vietnam
: Howard Stern said this morning that Bush’s National Guard issue is putting his reelection at risk.

I’m not sure I agree.

Are the folks who fought there that much less likely to vote for him if they’re conservative? And just how big is that consituency.

As for the folks who tried hard not to fight there.. well, hell, all was fair in love and peace. If he used his daddy juice to get out, then good for him; we should all have been so lucky. I lucked out with a high number (the last year they were drawn) but I was ready to do what it took: go to Canada, go to jail, use a lung-blowout to get out (it gave me only a three-year medical deferment; I was ready to whine for more).

I’m not sure we all want to dredge up our Vietnam ghosts and gremlins over this kerfluffle. So I don’t think Vietnam will be the issue.

But Howard says honesty may be the issue. He says that, of course, Bush didn’t want to go to the war and he used juice to get out and he should just admit it or else that will come back to dog him.

Maybe. Or maybe Kerry will be accused of negative campaigning and dredging up bad memories, if he pushes too hard.

14 responses to “Vietnam”

  1. vaildog Avatar
    vaildog

    I’m 30. Vietnam is regarded as ancient history by those in my generation. I think I spear for the Gen Xers and younger when I say get the hell over it already! The self flaggellation over Vietnam as one of the many symptoms of the Boomer generation that thinks that every experience they had was some sort watershed event in the American experience.
    This is what I hate about politics. It was ok for Bill Clinton to avoid Vietnam, but not for Geroge Bush to join the guard. All I want is some consistency from both sides. Vietnam was a goat screw getting out of going was something tons of people did. Smart kids with connections could find ways around serving, whopee f’ing doo!

  2. Max Avatar
    Max

    Whooa- Vaildog did you say that it was “OK for B.C. to avoid Vietnam”? I seem to remeber that was a point that his opponents used as a bat quite often. Remember, it was linked to Oxford, the bong, etc.
    As a young post Vietnam American I agree with the disconnect that we may feel toward Vietnam and the “war” there, but your tone is a little harsh. Remember all the plavers- respect your elders and those who blah history blah doomed to repeat it, etc. It was important in many ways and continues to be so, even more so today as we are seeing many similiarities with Iraq (most importantly re: this debate- very few sons of rich people going to Iraq).

  3. Sandy P. Avatar
    Sandy P.

    VIA WSJ – but it’s been on the net a few days.
    (Editor’s note: Sen. Kerry delivered this speech on the Senate floor Feb. 27, 1992. The previous day, Sen. Bob Kerrey, a Vietnam veteran and candidate for the Democratic presidential nomination, spoke in Atlanta, where he criticized fellow candidate Bill Clinton for his lack of military service during Vietnam.)
    …What saddens me most is that Democrats, above all those who shared the agonies of that generation, should now be refighting the many conflicts of Vietnam in order to win the current political conflict of a presidential primary.
    The race for the White House should be about leadership, and leadership requires that one help heal the wounds of Vietnam, not reopen them; that one help identify the positive things that we learned about ourselves and about our nation, not play to the divisions and differences of that crucible of our generation….
    —
    Straight from the horse’s _______________.

  4. xian Avatar
    xian

    I’m 39 and I think the Vietnam wound never healed properly and festers to this day in the form of the culture war. Clinton’s success gulled the Republicans into thinking it was safe for them to put their own avoider in, and the Dems are springing a trap now, it appears. The Vietnam vets deserve a uniter, not a divider, and Kerry symbolically brings together those who served and those who knew the war was wrong.
    For the olders who vote, Kerry is a return to the style of the string of WWII-hero presidents that started after the two Democratic presidents who won that war.
    for Gen-X and younger, sure, it’s no big deal, but it doesn’t hurt.
    Of course many Republicans will never vote for a *liberal* *Democrat* from *Massachusetts* who has spent his life in *Washington* and joined an organization with *Jane Fonda* and burned threw away his friends’ service medals ribbons, but they may sit on their hands if the wheels keep coming off the Bush re-run.

  5. Ebb Tide Avatar
    Ebb Tide

    If all the dems have is to re-read the National Guard thing, then Bush will win. It is the LEAST of the things anyone should be spending any time on. But for *some folks* it will be *THE THING.* I just have a feeling that is a pretty small group. The dems should drop it.
    (BTW: a LOT of Bush’s cabinet did not serve any time in the military at all, people his age and older, National Guard service is the least worst thing, avoiding it all together is the worst.)

  6. pepper Avatar
    pepper

    “very few sons of rich people going to Iraq””
    Saying rich kids are not in Iraq is wrong, we have a VOLUNTEER army now, men, WOMEN, rich, poor, black, white….Is that you Rep. Rangel??

  7. Insufficiently Sensitive Avatar
    Insufficiently Sensitive

    For this former grunt, the attempted damage-by-assertion to GWB is a contrived case of media bias. Even the Boston Globe, which raised the subject in 2000, is now backing off of it, although the rest of the journalist herd is still chattering like a political party to keep it alive.
    Kerry’s opportunistic speeches declaring that all our people in Viet Nam were murderers and rapists allowed him to politically cash in with the ‘liberals’ in Massachusetts and launch his political career. We’re not going to forget such savage dishonesty any time soon.

  8. Charlie Avatar
    Charlie

    Howard’s a good talker, but a bad reader. The Bush/AWOL thing would be dead if some of the people repeating it would read the staries they use for evidence, or any of the rebuttals.

  9. Politically Incorrect Avatar
    Politically Incorrect

    Both sides are spinning bits of trivia to suit their purposes. The frightening part of this is the hatred that is being pumped out from both sides. Will we be able to survive the rifts from this political campaign?… not that we are going to collapse in November (no matter who wins) but that the separation will further divide us instead of uniting us.
    Despite the political class’ efforts to make us into another Europe (socialized medicine, gas taxes of $4/gal, more government control of more parts of society, etc.) we still have a country where people are willing to die to get in and live their dreams.

  10. Politically Incorrect Avatar
    Politically Incorrect

    And I did serve in Vietnam for 17 months…

  11. Max Avatar
    Max

    Pepper, I know we have a volunteer armed forces, and I know it shows the great ethnic and cultural diversity of the country, but I would be careful of calling me wrong for stating that there are very few sons or daughters of the rich in it. Hard to quantify as I dont know of any poll etc, but as I anyone I have met who joined the Armed forces or ROTC have told me- they did it for the college help. Yes they are patriotic etc, but also short on cash. Find me 10 sons of millionaries in the Army and I will gladly eat my shoe.

  12. vaildog Avatar
    vaildog

    Max,
    There were at leat ten sons of millionaires that I knew of in my Corps Support Group, which was about three thousand people. I attended college on an ROTC scholarship, and while my parents aren’t millioniares, they are in the top 5% of wage earners in the country. Since I attended a private liberal arts college, a good portion of my fellow ROTC cadets were rich kids.

  13. angell Avatar
    angell

    Kerry may be a Vietnam vet, but he turned on his comrades once he got home. I have no trust and no respect for Hanoi John. I cringe when he calls himself a Vietnam vet–I call him a traitor.
    http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnkerry.com/

  14. oldfart Avatar
    oldfart

    The Vietnam war was tearing America apart.The young hated and avoided it, the old thought it was WWII 2.0. Families were torn apart, fathers and sons in emotional combat.
    Vietnam Veterans Against the War changed all that. When they marched in peace demonstrations they had enormous credibility. The older generation listened to them. And slowly, older people turned against the war and joined the marches.
    Kerry was undeniably a huge part of this, and what he did helped bring his comrades home. He’s not my candidate — I prefer Edwards, and his post-Vietnam attitude — but next to him, George Bush is just a wishywashy rich kid who sat it all out with a case of beer and still hasn’t grown up enough to admit it.