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Grudge match: Lileks v. Salam
: Lileks is pissed at Salam Pax for what he said in the Guardian haughtily lecuturing George Bush about how to run the world. He’s so pissed he’s using the f word spelled out; I don’t recall hearing that in James’ house. He also says no one else called Salam on it (but ahem, ahem; see my comments).
…there
And Salam’s mailbox doesn’t work anymore, either !!
Of course, I haven’t seen Lileks doing much that requires balls lately, either. But don’t let me get in the way of the mutual admiration society.
I’m sure James can speak for himself, but I’ll say that I don’t see HIM making light of other people sacrificing their lives in an effort to help others live free. Also, if you read the Bleat, you’d see that he acknowledged that he’d likely not have tried to start a revolution himself.
Hey, is not leaving a real email address any more courageous? Seeing that you’re the arbiter of “balls,” and all.
I think it fair to include the rest of Lilek’s screed, where he does indeed admit that he’s no fighter. I’m not sure why Jeff didn’t link directly to the article. I’m sure it was an oversight.
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Let me explain this in simple terms, habibi. You would have spent the rest of your life under Ba
Well, one of the real problems in the world has always been that you can’t free slaves, they have to free themselves. Long-term oppression has long-term effects. 300 years or so of slavery meant that the Civil War only got rid of legal slavery. It took another 100 years and the Civil Rights struggle to truly free blacks, and they did most of the heavy lifting themselves. I would not expect the Iraqis to take as long, after all, 30 years of Saddam is not the same as 300 years of slavery, plus they are in their own land and have several thousand years of history to draw on.
Having said that, it would behoove Salam Pax to begin looking at the end of his own arm for the necessary helping hand. I actually rather expect that many Iraqis are currently doing that. And that many more will in the future, so long as they believe that American forces will stay long enough to give them the room they need.
Salman?
Embarrassing juvenile.
Embarrassing
Drezner says you’re flat out wrong.
I say anything — ANYthing — that gets Lileks to stop whining about Four Column Tuesday is a good thing.
:-)
Seriously, though, it’s great to see James back on his game. Today’s Bleat is eminently forward-worthy and as sharply-argued as always.
Salam was grown-up enough to risk his life starting a blog criticizing Saddam & the Ba’athists which probably did more than if he picked up a f….. rifle and ended up getting killed or tortured in Saddam’s jails.
Lileks is being an asshole (though not as much as David Warren who I still don’t think has taken back his scurilous charges against Salam).
Drezner doesn’t just say your wrong. He blames GW 1 and says we owed Iraq. http://danieldrezner.com/mt/mt-tb.cgi/898
I agree with Lileks. A pox on Pax who just wants to sell his book. Publicity that’s all.
“Bush will be in London on tuesday and there will be a huge demo. the anti-war gang changed their signs from stop war to stop bush which i find funny. really need suggestions for my banner, at the moment i am considering dressing up as one of the spice girls and singing “who do you think you are?” while waving a pink feather boa, that would attract some attention i guess”.
You should read his blog. Raed has posted the bombing to Salam “salam you cannot imagine the scene at AnNasryya, i mean .. It’s not just about the italians’ building .. It’s about the entire neighborhood! Houses in the circle of 1000 meter are living without windows, without doors, and with cracks in their walls. The explosion was so huge that it blow off the doors and fences and trees of all the neighbours .. ”
Not to mention, Salam is right.
Salam has a right to be angry about how inept the Bush administration has been in the “reconstruction” of Iraq.
Beyond ignoring the State Department’s planning, they could have simply seen the looting in Basra and realized they should prepare to take steps in Bagdhad to prevent looting. That simple step could have made things a lot better.
I just think this is an incredibly patronizing, even colonial attitude. “You owe us.” F*** that. We’re just a little bit the ones actually in charge of seeing whether Iraq descends into anarchy or builds into a successful, stable state. Salam is worried, quite justifiably so, that things aren’t going as well as could be expected. Lileks has exactly what to be worried about that might affect him and his country personally?
Salam Pax certainly as the Eurosneer down pat, but is it really surprising that he is parroting the propaganda of his paymasters?
Salam has a right to be angry about how inept the Bush administration has been in the “reconstruction” of Iraq.
Apparently beggers can be choosers.
Considering that Salam Pax was almost certainly a Ba
Salam has the right to say what he wants, but so does Lileks. However, I don’t think there would be this whole debate if he had sounded respectful and serious. Who wants to listen to an immature baby who calls the President of the US, the man who can either listen to or ignore him, “Georgie.”
You get more with honey than vinegar and sounding like someone who is serious about what ails his country rather than a petulant child would have been easier to swallow.
I agree with Lileks. While I agree there have been mistakes (there always are – battle of the bulge anyone?)it’s been 7 months. Salam as the toast of London for the last several months, doesn’t have a complete view.
Andrew, it IS affecting my country (and others volunteering there from other countries). Those of us with Brothers, sisters, etc. there are affected. It is MY money being poured into it. A tremendous amount of work to bring this country into the 21st century (Democrats don’t think a postal system is important never mind stable utilities and telecommunications). The point is Americans are dying there too. US Soldiers are sacrificing a lot as are their families having Mom, Dad and sometimes both away for 6-9 months at a time. A lot of reservists have left their jobs to go to Iraq. Yeah I think it has an impact on my country and it’s people Andrew.
Those of you who pin medals on Salaam for “bravely” blogging under Sadam, now congratulate him for being in London during reconstruction? Do you think he could be doing something constructive there? Maybe advising the US there about how things could be done? Using his expertise to assist some of those stupid Americans giving up so much for him.
Anyone who things Salam’s childish complaint is going to do spur any change? I am guess that those who do think protestors on stilts and paper mache puppets also have an impact.
> Salam has a right to be angry about how inept the Bush administration has been in the “reconstruction” of Iraq.
He has the “right” to complain, but it’s also true that his complaint has no basis.
Why? Because the US doesn’t owe Iraq a reconstruction.
If Iraqis don’t like the free ice cream, they’re free to do without or make their own.
If Pax is at all representative, Iraq is going to return to being a hell hole, and they’ll have no one to blame but themselves.
Lileks isn’t the sort to wage a revolution, but he is the sort to build a civil society. By blaming others for their failure to civilize his people, Pax suggests that he isn’t.
Andy – ditto.
Thank you for saying perfectly.
First, when Life happened to Salam, he picked up the ball and ran with it, to his credit. It was a crapshoot whether he would punk out or not. But he hung in there. I took a leap of faith in him that he would, because I remembered Prof Sartre in Cuba and what we had learned there. So, consider it another Stonewall Rebellion ;-)
What is he doing now to help? His company isn’t building in Iraq right now, probably because of safety and security issues. So, in the mean time, Salam has been working as a translator and fixer for various journalists who come to Baghdad. There’s nothing wrong with that. He’s still entitled to his own opinion.
I continue to sporadically keep an eye on him and his blog. The other day when he took some “home movies” of his family, I compared his family to the Loud Family from PBS on my blog.
I think some people are expecting too much from Salam. He is what he is. He has repeatedly described himself as a ‘pouf.’ So, he’s rather effeminate in a certain kind of way. Sometimes you have to just accept people the way they are.
> His company isn’t building in Iraq right now, probably because of safety and security issues.
issues that exist only because Iraqis don’t want them to stop….
> What is he doing now to help?
Yes, what is he doing? Apart from complaining about free ice cream that is.
It’s said that Americans get the govt that they deserve….
You know, this thing is bothering me, so that I wanted to add something here to my comments.
First, I examined that letter when it was posted on their website, although I was rather tired at the time. I blogged it, just simply making note of it. At the time, it appeared that overall it had a campy tone, but the ‘georgie’ thing was impertinent. Well, nobody’s perfect. It’s also a bit too precious.
The Lilaks essay was very readable, but it’s futile to criticize Salam because you want him to be different than he is.
Salam was always quite upfront about being a campy-type guy, and this was a campy letter.
I don’t think it is reasonable to expect Salam to be somebody else.
You’re right; it’s not reasonable to expect him to be someone else. I don’t think anyone is doing that.
However, if you’re getting “free ice cream” and you can’t bring yourself to express gratitude, it might not be a bad idea to keep quiet. And if you can’t keep quiet, don’t get mad when you get called on it. He’s free to bitch, we’re free to criticize.
I don’t know what planet you are on, but here on planet Earth, a botched unilateral occupation of Iraq does not qualify as “free ice-cream”. Furthermore the invasion has opened up the possibility of a nightmare sharia-civil war-genocide situation that would be infinitely worse than the bloody stability of Iraq under Saddam Hussein.
So a big FU to James Lileks. And how’s that peace dividend working out for the Palestinians? Still occupied, abused and utterly beatdown I see.
“Give me liberty or give me death” – Patrick Henry, a Palestinian at heart
I wondered how long it would be before someone defended Saddam.
The poster clearly believes that the Iraqis can’t live peacefully, that the closest they come is a modest lack of violence when brutally oppressed.
I don’t.
LOL! That’s not what I wrote. Nice strawman though.