No more angry young men

Following up on the post below about the well-educated, well-to-do albeit, thank goodness, incompetent murderous doctor-terrorists in the UK, Gallup sends me a 2006 Gallup World Poll article for Foreign Policy that throws Friedman’s theories on their head. From a poll of 9,000 people in Muslim nations, Gallup found that Muslim radicals are no more religious than moderates. Radicals earn more money and stay in school longer. Radicals are not hopeless but in fact “more radicals expressed satisfaction with their financial situation and quality of life than their moderate counterparts, and a majority of them expected to be better off in the years to come.” Do they hate us? And if so why? They don’t. “Both moderates and radicals in the Muslim world admire the West, in particular its technology, democratic system, and freedom of speech.”

So what do we do? How do we win the war on terrorism? Says Gallup:

Although almost all Muslims believe the West should show more respect for Islam, radicals are more likely to feel that the West threatens and attempts to control their way of life. Moderates, on the other hand, are more eager to build ties with the West through economic development. This divergence of responses offers policymakers a key opportunity to develop strategies to prevent the moderate mainstream from sliding away, and to check the persuasive power of those who would do us harm.

  • Was just reading today’s Friedman column; the only thing that I found noteworthy about it was that I’d heard it all before — on talk radio. It’s a shame when our nation’s intellectual leadership falls behind even the blustering baboons.

  • ‘Radicals are more likely to feel that the West threatens … their way of life’ – reminds me of the debaters in the House who took up much of the time of the 109th Congress that should have been devoted to appropriations, crying out that their marriages are threatened by Gay Marriage. Also, their kids and their morals and their precious bodily fluids … well, maybe that wasn’t quite what some of them said, but really, radicals of the televangelist variety are hyping the threat that our enlightened world presents to their sense of well-being just as much as the ‘mullahs’ are. No wonder we have the bomb throwers (kill for life!) on the right here, as well as in the Middle East. Though our homegrown commandos are not as effective.

  • Dawn

    The ironic thing is, Hollywood is more responsible for them hating us than Washington is, but few people will accept that reality because it doesn’t fall in line with their political agenda.

  • Janet

    That the educated from the Iraq –doctors would seek to join the radicals tells us that it is time to find better/more meaningful solutions to solve this situation.

    When the middle class, and upper middle class which these people are, seek to side with the terrorsts, dialogue and diplomacy is a must and should be a part of whatever is decided on to establish a withdrawal plan from Iraq ASAP.

  • Mohammed was a fucking asshole who was jealous of Christ and tried to rip off everything he could from Christianity without being caught.

  • penny

    Of for God’s sake, put a fork in it. Islam is the Religion of Perpetual Rage. It is inherent in its core beliefs. Pick up a Koran which is lived with a much prescribed adherence as possible. It contains permissions for jihad, dhimmitude, wife beating, polygamy, the vilification of Jews and all of the other quaint rantings of Mohammed. So, who’s really surprised that the dysfuntion and inherent violence of that kind of indoctrination is spread across all class, incomes and education levels.

    The spineless little Koolaid drinkers on the left with eyes wide shut are still uttering the long expired moral equivalences, multi-culti garbage(no, all cultures aren’t equal) and pc platitudes. They can’t for the life of themselves, which is becoming more and more literal as in Britain, name the enemy. Islam is a twisted cult. Deal with it or prove other wise.

    Hey, Ruth, as ludicrous as ever, when Christians start strapping on suicide belts and doing car bombs against other religions, your drivel can be taken seriously.

    Muslims want more respect the West?….oh, please, respect is a reward for good deeds. Even the alleged moderate Muslims have been a big failure with their silence. After all of the carnage in the name of their religion, not one mass protest or newspaper ad denouncing terrorism in any country where they are safe to do so. Their silence in London is deafening.

    Janet – dialogue and diplomacy with who??? What parallel universe are you from? Rogue terrorists aren’t heads of state and half of the ME heads of state support terrorists. Iran ring a bell? It 24/7 states it will blow Israel off of the map. We’ve done diplomacy before. Remember Arafat? The outcome of the Oslo Accords? Get a brain.

    Waiting for the nuanced drivel from the increasingly ignored journalist crowd to follow…..

  • kat

    Bravo, Penny, for telling it exactly as it is. Thank God, there are still people who realize, that muslims, and muslims alone, are responsible for the terrorism that islam breeds.

  • Eric

    Jeff, it appears “penny” has been released into the community again. You may want to notify the authorities.

  • Thanks for illustrating the radical alienation by example, Pen.

  • Here’s an interesting article from the Observer, written by Hassan Butt, who obviously is a “former radical islamist”. Butt also disagrees with Friedman, saying that islamistic terrorists are motivated by their belief that the whole world is a Dar al-harb (“House of War”) in which fighting against the “infidels” is allowed. He criticizes islamic organizations who don’t want to talk about violence in Islam and calls for an open discussion of “the ideas that fuel terrorism” in order to overcome the anachronistic concept of killing in the name of Islam.

  • Peter

    The day you start to believe in god you have left somewhere, and more or less, the rational world. Christians have done their part of massacres in the name of god. All the three religions of the book are full of hate messages. Unfortunately it is not the exclusivity of Islam. The notion of ONE god conveys the notion of one truth. When you think there is only one truth in this world, you have enter the world on intolerance.

  • penny

    That’s the best you can do, Eric?

    If you have a problem with what I’ve written, how about in an intelligent manner refuting it. Your empty utterance is just that.

    Ruth, I don’t feel alienated. My opinions are pretty mainstream. You need to get out more.

  • Eric

    Jeff, it’s worse than before. Now she thinks she’s rational.

  • I don’t know why this is surprising. Wasn’t the Russian social unrest starting in the 1860’s and extending through 1917 a product of the intelligentsia? Wasn’t the same thing true of the French Enlightenment? How about the American Revolution?

    It is those who have studied world politics and social structures who formulate the big plans for change. Peasants just riot.

    What would happen if self proclaimed press pundits were actually forced to do a little reading before making their pronouncements? One needs to take a test before driving a car, but launching world war three from a press pulpit requires no credibility.

  • Greg0658

    People are a product of their environment. That Middle East is such a place to live in these days. Its so hot and dry. It must have been lush at one time in history, because there is oil in them sands. Dinosaur days I guess.

    There is an answer towards eternal earth peace that works (for the time being) humans stop joining your eggs and sperm.

    In this world without humans is there peace when a lion and elephant fight for the wateringhole?

    Since all that is pshycobabble (again – one more time) I still like the KISS (keep it simle stupid)

    Do unto others as your wish others do unto you. I’ve been taught Jesus (aka God) said that.

  • penny

    Parody or channelling Ruth, Greg0658?

    Robert, as strange as it might seem to you, the jihadis’ intelligentsia aren’t exactly in the same league as those leading the “French Enlightenment” or “American Revolution” if that was your point. I think history tends to demonstrate that peasants get slaughtered(think Stalin, Mao) more than riot. I don’t think historians will be viewing global jihad as a peasant uprising. Or maybe in the spirit of this thread there was another point your were trying to make.

    Eric, what are you expecting Jeff to do?

  • Harry

    Penny nailed it. Islam is mass psychosis masquerading as a religion. I’m an atheist and know all religions are a crock of shit, but Islam is an especially dangerous opiate for the masses.

  • Unfortunately, penny is right, at the core of her original post. The Quran is rife with the santioning of all manner of violent behaviors against ‘infidels.’


    The Christian Bible is also rampant with the licensing of all manner of atrocities, ‘in the name of the Lord’ the relegation of women to mere articles of property with no inherent rights or freedoms, sanctioning of selective extermination of hostile races (read: genocide), etc., etc.

    I have a solution, however:

    A New Reality TV show: CRUSADES 21st CENTURY, featuring radical and reactionary elements of Islamic Fundamentalists pitted in a ‘SURVIVOR’ style setting, with ‘FEAR FACTOR’ style challenges and ‘AMERICAN GLADIATOR’ style combat sports events, against Reactionary Right-Wing Christian Fundamentalists. We can line up sponsors probably overnight… This would be a MONSTER, easily outstripping ‘IDOL’…

    Think I’m crazy? Somebody run this one past Citizen Murdoch and see what happens….

  • Loving Penny’s ‘right’ness; on getting out more; see

  • penny

    Tansley – so what? This is then, that was now. None of us were alive then. So, what’s your point? That the historic bad behavior of any group of people negates the ability of their ancestors to have an opinion about the bad behavior of a group now?

    Same old circular muddled lefty groupthink. No logic applied. No reasoning skills.

    Modern Christians understand the Bible as metaphorical, Muslim’s view the Koran as literal. Christianity is a religion of conscience rather than prescribed behaviors. Huge difference.

    Want to share with us the modern atrocities and body count of Christian fundamentalists vs 9/11, Beslan, Bali, London, the moscow theater, the Taliban, Madrid, etc, etc, etc? Trying even to demonstrate equivalence between fundamental Christians and Muslim terrorists like your friend Ruth is flippant, craven and illogical.

    We are a pluralistic society that does tolerate the entire spectrum of political and religious thought and practice. Islam doesn’t. Your comments put you closer to them than us. I guess no one has pointed that out to you before.

  • EXCUSE me, penny dahling…

    Modern Moderate Moslems acknowlege that the Quran is subject to interpretation. They are not militant. More circular, muddled, crack-brained extreme right-wing thinking. Pitiable, really….and pathetically predictable.

    Modern atrocities and body counts of Christian fundamentalists, eh? I suppose you’ve forgotten all the executions of innocent African Americans carried out by the fundamentalist ‘christian’ members of the Ku Klux Klan…how very convenient on your part… And perhaps you’ve forgotten Francisco Franco’s bombing of the Basque village of Guernica, courtesy of his Nazi pals in Berlin? Let’s also not forget the Catholic Church’s tacit nod to the Nazis during WWII…who WERE, after all, exterminating JEWS… Or perhaps you don’t consider history ‘modern’ until it’s around circa 1990 or so?

    So much for your ‘pluralistic society.’ “Modern Christians understand the bible as ‘metaphorical?'” This doubtless explains their unilateral condemnation of gays…very metaphorical, that…kind of like the POT calling the kettle BLACK. Or their wholesale attack on abortion….despite the continued evidence of the planets’ resources being depleted due to overpopulation, of which they seem to have no grasp.

    You can’t just draw an arbitrary line across the timetables of history and say “what has gone before THIS time doesn’t COUNT, and what has happened after THIS time is really ALL that counts.’ People have MEMORIES, penny…like the Japanese remembered Commodore Perry’s ‘gunboat diplomacy’ in Tokyo harbor when they flew their attack on our PEARL harbor….or like the way the Bosnian Serbs remembered all the years of this or that slight or transgression when they set upon a path of ethnic cleansing of their local Moslem community… Now THAT was some Christian TOLERANCE at work, that was…

    An elegant reconstruction of the current administration’s skills at cherrypicking information. Bravo. No, we don’t tolerate the entire spectrum of political and religious thought…only the partss that are congruent with the AGENDA of the RULING PARTY…

  • penny

    Tansley – two things, only an preening idiot resorts to “dahling” and the efforts of your globalized rant stands for what it is, meritless.

    Same your energy for someone else. Our dialogue has ended.

  • kat

    And let’s not forget that Godless regimes have murdered far more people than anyone. If you were to tote up the casualty count achieved by those few officially atheistic regimes the world has seen, the atheists have the religioniists beat by miles. Notorious atheist butchers like Stalin, Mao Zedong, Pol Pot,Kim Il Sung and Enver Hoxha killed and slaughtered their own people at an unheard-of rate.  When it comes to piling up a body count, atheists take second place to none…even muslims who are presently murdering innocents in every corner of the world.

  • Wow, that’s impressively delusional. All not agreeing with the radical right be informed, you are muslim terrorists. You oughta take those prescrips, chillun.

  • Muhammad

    Penny says “After all of the carnage in the name of their religion, not one mass protest or newspaper ad denouncing terrorism in any country where they are safe to do so. Their silence in London is deafening.”

    I say: Thank you Penny for inspiring us to apologize. The “Not in Our Name” campaign will be launched with advertisements in national newspapers on Friday under the title “Muslims United”.,,-6760847,00.html

    Truly your wisdom is bounteous. More fool the others for not recognizing it. Please tell us what to do next.

  • kat

    Next, accepot responsibility that today’s terrorism is a muslim problem. Don’t blame Jews and Christians. Put the blame where it belongs. Stop teaching hatred in your madrasas and mosques. Teach love thy neighbor as thyself and that you can never expect the world to convert to islam. Hell will freeze over before that happens. Talk is cheap–I hear that from CAIR all the time–they talk one thing and do another. You can’t talk islam is peace out one side of your mouth and plan to kill innocents out the other side. Love Jews, Buddhists, atheists, Christians, and muslims. Allow churches and temples in your countries–respect non-mohammedans.

  • Eric

    Some wise words there, Kat. If only all religions met your high standards.

  • Penny said, “Modern Christians understand the Bible as metaphorical”

    You mean modern Christians like Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, Fred Phelps and their ilk?

    Penny what is the real root over your hatred? Don’t like humus? Is it because they invented algebra? What were your grades in high school?

  • kat

    I thought the Greeks( Diophantus) invented algebra and others just translated the works of Greeks, Babylonians, Indians, Chinese,etc.. Translation is not invention.

  • mrs. ibrahim al-jafaari

    Christian Terrorists like Eric Rudolph, Terry Nichols, and Timothy McVeigh are pretty scary, that’s for sure. The 168 killed by the Christian terrorists in OKC were horrible, and the blame for that atrocity can be laid directly at the feet of rightwing hate speech here in America. Praise Allah that we have folks like the Southern Poverty Law Center keeping track of these militias, Nazi’s, and white supremacist Christians.

    Until Christian terrorists and their supporters (Dobson, Perkins, et alia) are imprisoned and tortured (excuse me, provided with “enhanced interrogation techniques) into giving up their co-conspirators none of us will really be safe.

  • Actually, it’s fairly fuzzy as to whom should shoulder the responsibility for making millions of high school students raise the question “But when am I going to use this in the real world?”

    From Wikipedia-

    “The Hellenistic mathematician Diophantus has traditionally been known as “the father of algebra” but debate now exists as to whether or not Al-Khwarizmi should take that title from Diophantus.[2] Those who support Al-Khwarizmi point to the fact that much of his work on reduction is still in use today and that he gave an exhaustive explanation of solving quadratic equations. Those who support Diophantus point to the fact that the algebra found in Al-Jabr is more elementary than the algebra found in Arithmetica and that Arithmetica is syncopated while Al-Jabr is fully rhetorical.[3] Another Persian mathematician, Omar Khayyam, developed algebraic geometry and found the general geometric solution of the cubic equation. The Indian mathematicians Mahavira and Bhaskara II, and the Chinese mathematician Zhu Shijie, solved various cases of cubic, quartic, quintic and higher-order polynomial equations.”

  • kat

    mrs. ibrahim al-jafaar-
    We view those guys as criminals–you view your terrorists as celebrated martyrs doing allah’s bidding. Until muslims admit that the acts are terrorism and speak against jihadists, we will never be safe. Condoning and excusing islamic terrorism by refusing to acknowlege it, and constantly changing the subject to OKC, makes one an enabler of these barbaric goons.

  • Eric

    Jeff, now it’s serious. “kat” has been released into the community as well.

  • ronjazz

    there is no more barbaric goon on the planet today than the great christian george w. bush, and no more hateful, non-thinking, murderous cult that those that follow him. penny is one such cultist; no amount of logic or fact will shake her fundamentalist mindset nor her racial hatred and fear. her approach is right in line with fundamentalist muslims, and her solutions exactly the same as theirs.

  • chico haas

    Citizen Journalism!

  • For ronjazz:
    Thank you. I often make the mistake of trying to debate with calcified intellects, in the hopes that no one can be completely intractible. I suppose it’s my inherent faith in human nature…which is, evidently, occasionally misplaced.

  • If you want to see what Muslim believe without the spin just listen to this underground radio show talking about Islam from a Muslim living in America.