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It comes to Britain

12 comments on It comes to Britain

It comes to Britain

: Both the Observer and The Times of London write about the religious right coming even to Britain, where, says the Observer column, only 16 percent say religion is very important to them:

The worldwide Anglican communion is in disarray, and only 16 per cent of Britons say that religion is very important to them. Yet God is suddenly the referee of choice for a secular nation. Leading churchmen want to take abortion to the ballot box and though the Prime Minister warns evangelical Christians that faith and politics don’t mix, the religious right smells power.

Says the Sunday Times Review:

Meanwhile, Michael Howard had made abortion an election issue and suddenly secular Britain found itself in the distinctly weird position of having to ìdo Godî, of having to face the fact that, like it or not, the Big Guy is back.

These are, of course, tentative steps. Howard and Blair know perfectly well that playing the God card in the modern, know-nothing, believe-nothing UK is a high risk move that is likely to be met with blank stares from the masses. Fewer than 8% of us go to church, since 1968 the number who believe in God has fallen from 77% to 44% and the number who positively do not believe in God has soared from 11% to 44%. If secularity can be defined as the destruction of conventional religion then we are, indeed, a secular nation.

Rowan Williams, Archbishop of Canterbury, seems therefore to be right, though not for reasons that would make him particularly happy. Backing calls for a reform of the abortion law last week in this paper, he wrote: ìThe idea that raising the issues here is the first step towards a theocratic tyranny or a capitulation to some neanderthal Christian right is alarmist nonsense.î

A debate begins but on a different scale.

12 responses to “It comes to Britain”

  1. Kat Avatar
    Kat

    Actually, England, like America, has nothing to fear from the theocrats, but from the Liberalocrats–Liberalism is the religion that is being imposed under the pseudonym of secularism. Christianity bad, islam is peace,
    homosexuals, American Indians, blacks, Hispanics, feminists are good and white male is a pig.

  2. Trudy W. Schuett Avatar
    Trudy W. Schuett

    It’s not widely recognized that in England the state religion goes with the majority, so many Christians there fear the religion will soon be Muslim.
    Any kind of discussion of religion over there will truly be different!

  3. richard mcenroe Avatar
    richard mcenroe

    ” If secularity can be defined as the destruction of conventional religion then we are, indeed, a secular nation.” ó And it’s doing so much good…

  4. Franky Avatar
    Franky

    Who exactly fears that muslims will be the majority soon? you know considering according to last census muslims account for 2.7% of the population.

  5. Kat Avatar
    Kat

    The real long term solution for the Muslims in Britain and the west is to utilise the expertise, skills and experiences of Muslims with the aim of assisting those in Islamic lands towards replacing the current corrupt oppressive governments with the Islamic political entity. To carry out this noble task we need to be dedicated as our belief will constantly be challenged and sometimes sacrifice for our Deen is and will be required.
    ???? ????? ????? ??? ???? ???? ??? ???? ??????? ??????? ?? ?????? ?? ??? ?? ???? ???? ????
    ìAnd rule between them by that which Allah revealed to you and do not follow their whims, and beware (be on the alert) that they may deviate you away from even some part of what Allah revealed to youî. [TMQ 5:49]
    Khilafah.com Journal
    10 Rabi al-Awwal 1425 Hijri
    29 April 2004

  6. Amy Avatar
    Amy

    Firstly, the correct country name for this discussion is Britain, or the UK, not England. I understand that on your fine side of the water there isn’t much recognised difference, but these are different countries and the distinction is important. :)
    Quoting Trudy W. Schuett:
    It’s not widely recognized that in England the state religion goes with the majority, so many Christians there fear the religion will soon be Muslim.
    With respect Trudy, this is absolute tosh. If the established religion went “with the majority” we would be members of the Church of Indifference. Protestantism is established in Britain by tradition; it no longer reflects, nor needs to reflect, the current trends in society.
    As Franky points out, Islam is far from being the faith of the majority. In Britain we have a healthy tradition of religious tolerance and ecumenicalism. Islam, Judaism, Catholicism and other religions are welcomed as important minority faiths in Britain’s religious kaleidoscope.
    I too have been concerned by the recent spate of religious references in British politics. However, I believe (and hope) that these are media-driven and do not represent any real turning of the tide.
    Michael Howard did not set out to put abortion and/or religion on the political agenda. He gave an answer to a question asked by Cosmopolitan magazine. He said that he supported reducing the legal abortion limit from 22 weeks of pregnancy to 20 weeks. Since then all political parties including his own Conservatives have played down the issue, as none of them want it to become an election issue. (We are likely only 5 weeks away from a general election in the UK, so things are rather more excitable than usual.) Abortion has always been a matter of conscience for MPs, and they are given a free vote by their parties on it (ie. they are not whipped, or told to vote for or against).
    There is a general discussion at the moment about whether the abortion time limit should be reduced, in the light of new scientific evidence. There is no appetite in the country for any greater restriction on abortion, and the politicians know that. It would be political suicide to express a pro-life viewpoint in any terms other than personal.
    Regarding religion in UK politics generally, there is no interest in it, and any politician talking about God would be asking for trouble. This isn’t to reflect my personal feelings about religion, it is simply a political reality.
    It is unfortunate that certain “hardcore” religious groups, who are in a tiny minority, are flexing their muscles and trying to appear more important than they are. I am sure that they will not achieve the influence that they have in America, because there is simply no significant constituency for their beliefs.
    Of course, these things can change pretty quickly, and I sincerely hope that we will see no flowering of politicised religion. That is why I am very disappointed by the recent comments by Cardinal Cormac Murphy O’Conner, and the Archbishop of Canterbury. I am not particularly surprised by the former, but I was more troubled by the latter, as he has hitherto been generally more restrained where politics are concerned.
    Perhaps we are hearing the fading hurrahs of a dwindling group trying desperately to wield the influence of old, which is no longer theirs.
    Quoting Jeff Jarvis:
    A debate begins but on a different scale.
    You hit the nail on the head there, Jeff. Whatever debate there is around a few hot issues, at no time in the forseeable future will we have major party leaders invoking God on the campaign trail. And for that I am glad. Politics and religion do not mix.

  7. franky Avatar
    franky

    I think this is a total media invention combined with the wholesale importing of American political techniques (pioneered by Labour robbing from Clinton’s democrats) that won’t have any relevance to the British political landscape. There is simply nothing comparable to the bible belt, and religion has played a tiny part among conservatives. Further, to begin to mention religion to cater to the small part of the population who want to hear it would drive away the rest of the population.

  8. Amy Avatar
    Amy

    Right on Franky. I agree with all you say. Especially this bit:
    I think this is a total media invention combined with the wholesale importing of American political techniques
    Some tactics from the U.S. have worked, but others may well come back to bite them. The Tories new campaign manager Lynton Crosby has given them some useful ideas, but emulating Karl Rove’s strategy too much will be a mistake. It works in the States, but not here.
    Despite what I said above, about all main parties backing off from religion, I wouldn’t put it past Michael Howard to aim a policy at people of a particular religion if they fell into one of his demographic target groups. But, as you say, he wouldn’t be stupid enough to risk losing the mainstream by explicitly mentioning God.

  9. franky Avatar
    franky

    Amy,
    I think you’re right about targetting of religious groups but I think it’s done in a very circumspect way, something that apparently is now being called “dog-whistling”, the use of coded words that supporters of an idea understand but that are not picked up on by the rest of the population. For instance, the bill that prohibits insults on religion was widely perceived as a sop to the muslim vote which remains furious following the invasion of Iraq.

  10. Amy Avatar
    Amy

    Dog-whistling eh? LOL. What next?
    Interesting what you say about “the use of coded words”, Franky.
    Yes, I suppose the religious hatred bill could be regarded as a sop to the Muslim vote, although preachers of extreme Islam would be equally guilty of incitement to religious hatred as BNP Muslim-bashers would. Anyway, I don’t see such a bill doing much to assuage the ire of many British Muslims. Nor is it very well “coded” to obscure the supposed intent from the rest of us.
    Now you’ve got me thinking – what other “dog-whistling” is going on under my radar?

  11. Amy Avatar
    Amy

    I suppose Howard’s abortion line could be a dog whistle itself. He’s playing it down for the mainstream, making out it’s no biggie, while at the same time hoping that Catholics will pick up on it as a sign of movement from the only politician discussing the topic.
    Oooh, clever gits.
    What about examples of Labour or Liberal Democrat dog-whistling?

  12. Amy Avatar
    Amy

    The BBC’s Brian Walden on God and Science here.
    Or listen to it in Real Player here. (Audio available for one week only.)