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Do blogs help the left?

39 comments on Do blogs help the left?

Do blogs help the left?

: Iain Ducan Smith, a conservative MP in Great Britain, predicts that blogs will play a big role in the next British election and he has an interesting view of their role with the left in America:

You would also expect this electronic revolution to be good for the Democrats, but the American left’s relationship with the internet has been disastrous. The internet has sunk a knife into Bill Clinton’s moderate Democratic party. Mainstream business people were Clinton’s principal funders, simultaneously approving and driving his centrism. But the Democrats’ new paymasters are the 600,000 computer users who, in 2004, supported Howard Dean’s bid for his party’s presidential nomination. Dean energised an unrepresentative group of voters with a stridently anti-war message. Electronic money powered Dean’s campaign, and all of the other contenders for the Democratic crown soon pandered to his base.

The Democrats’ problem has only worsened since. The dailykos.com site of a Democratic consultant gets 500,000 hits a day. That site’s memorial to four American contractors murdered in Iraq was “screw them”. Hatefulness also pours out of the popular websites of Michael Moore and MoveOn.org. The conservative blogosphere has dubbed the Democrats’ IT base its MooreOn tendency….

But the blogosphere will become a force in Britain, and it could ignite many new forces of conservatism. The internet’s automatic level playing field gives conservatives opportunities that mainstream media have often denied them.

Conventional wisdom has been that blogs started leaning right (the war, dontchaknow) but that the left used them most effectively in the campaign. But this conservative argues that blogs brought out the left’s fringe or their anger. Now the right fringe certainly used the internet (see: Swifties) but now the conservative bloggers are taking on an above-it air. By all that, I don’t mean to come to a conclusion but to ask the question: Which side is using blogs better now (post-campaign) to establish a reputation and agenda?

39 responses to “Do blogs help the left?”

  1. StephenRH Avatar
    StephenRH

    You are making a bad assuption; ie that the “Swifties” as you call them, are on the right fringe. That simply is not the case. They simply spoke the truth as they knew it and because it so diverged from the then current sale of the events, they were considered reactive.

  2. Oliver Avatar
    Oliver

    If the Kerry campaign had listened to the blogs, they would have preempted the Swift Vet lies and made the race more competitive. The Dems began to flounder when they looked at the web as a cash cow and not another part of their arsenal as frontrunner status moved from Dean to Kerry. In Kerry’s defeat, and Dean’s ascension to head the DNC against the wishes of the beltway crowd, you’ll see the web push the Dems toward a more real world message and not the overcautious poll-tested stuff that doesn’t work outside of Washington.
    That Duncan Smith trots out Kos’ dumb remark and ignores all the other improvements a widen donor base has brought to the Dems (our candidates are now accountable to thousands of small donations, not a few big ones – that is a good thing no matter how you spin it), and ignoring the fact that the right has rejected any sort of Clinton-era third way overtures (even though Chairman Dean is very much in the Clinton mold idealogically, as are most of the people in power positions in the party), is sort of modus operandi for conservative voices (and some ill informed liberals) nowadays.
    For the right, the blogs are now the test factory for their spin, used to provide fodder and an echo chamber for talk radio, cable news, etc. It’s still largely a media tool versus a political tool like it is for the Dems. That’s the blessing of incumbency. That’ll probably change as we get closer to the open primary in ’08, however and the GOP will have to listen more to the web just like the Dems do.
    The Swifties are not on the fringe of the right. The serial liars are in the mainstream of the Republican party, and are celebrated as such. Bush has them to thank as much as he has to thank Karl Rove. Lee Atwater would be proud, because his brand of politics is now the standard.
    I’m just hoping the Dems finally realize that.

  3. Kat Avatar
    Kat

    With people like Oliver, Michael Moore, and Daily Kos, who needs enemies. The Dems will destroy themselves. Really stupid to use the web to spin conspiracy theories. Today there is a new whopper at Kos. I just shake my head and wonder what makes them so angry and nutty.
    Meanwhile, the right finally has an outlet to hold the leftist media accountable and two of the left’s soldiers have fallen–Rather and Jordan.
    There was no recourse in the past. The left just spun the lies and they stuck. Remember the days when Rita Braver and Linda Douglas covered the White House while their spouses had financial relationships with the Clinton administration. Also there was Mathew Cooper who was covering presidential politics for Newsweek and he he was married to a Clinton adviser and also Christiane Amanpour, married to former Clinton State Department spokesman,Jamie Rubin. What a cozy little bunch they were before the blogs started asking questions. Dan Rather could have gotten away with his lie, and Kerry would have won. The Swifties would not have exposed him for the traitor he was because MSM would not have covered it..
    I’d say the Net helps the right. The Left already had and still has the MSM.

  4. Tom Avatar
    Tom

    Over the years, the media has tilted left. It forced the Republicans to tighten up their messages, because they knew any opening left in an arguement would be exploited by the academy and the media. Coversely, Democrats could say almost anything and have the media cast it in its best light (See West Virginian Senators and Racism). It explains why Talk Radio worked so well for the right. Many democratic talking points work on an opinion page, but would be destroyed in the talk radio format when people could question the message.
    My thoughts are, for the immediate future, blogs will help the right, because we tend to focus and think out our position more rationally and less emotionally.
    Long Terms, I think it will be a great boon to the left. It will force them to be more thoughtful and specific on their positions, otherwise they will not be able to compete. And I think the Democrats will want to compete in the long term.

  5. Reggie Avatar
    Reggie

    The right is much better at boiling things down, and therefore they can use the net more effectively. I don’t necessarily mean that in a negative way though. I guess what I mean by that is blogs are on the web, a medium that favors the up front clear presentation of information. Most blog posts are short, concise, and pithy. When they link to other sources, they act like a window, or a translator’s introduction framing what the reader reads next. The left tends to ramble, and this doesn’t work so well in the fast-paced blogoshpere, even if the ideas are not as wishy washy as they might come across. They also get angry, and this doesn’t help things. The right feds off of the stupid things lefties say when they are angry. It never seems to pick up as much steam when the left picks up on the right’s anger.
    The other clear advantage that the right has is the control of language. Just read that passage by Duncan Smith–at every possible moment they rhetorically place the left on the fringe, boil down their ideas to ‘screw them’ and continue on their way. It’s brilliant as a pursuasive tool. Their use of language as a whole is superior to most of the blogs left.
    This from someone firmly and proudly living on the Left.
    I don’t think many of the issues that we are dealing with today benefit from brevity–but I feel like we’ve forgotten how to have a debate. The Social Security thing–important policy–turns into some of the most nasty and unhelpful trash in comment section and on blogs net-wide.
    I wish it weren’t so, but I guess it’s the nature of the beast.

  6. Reggie Avatar
    Reggie

    Just a quick add-on related to Tom’s point about the left and the academy. I am in graduate school right now researching in the social sciences. Much has been made about the control that the left has on the academy, and in the social sciences, I agree. However, one needs to look at business schools and law programs (many have blogs) to see that it isn’t so clear cut. Many of the most impressive conservative scholars leave their undergraduate programs and are scooped up by think tanks and industry and corporate jobs which pay really well and expedite the path to power and comfort. That is not graduate school. I would love more academic diversity (for instance what would a conservative write about challenging post colonial policy in developing economies? love to see it)because it would encourage everyone to test their ideas in a healthy way. debate. push pull.
    some might argue that the conservative side of policy is what we have been living since 1980 (c’mon, Clinton was a neoliberal just like reagan). There is a case for that. Perhaps the academy is the counter balance. The only problem is that today, the weights are situated in seperate rooms.
    but I ramble like a lefty.

  7. Oat Avatar
    Oat

    I’m mostly a social liberal, but during the runup to the election, I found myself reading more and more blogs from moderate conservatives–they just seemed more fair and reasonable than the left side of the blogosphere (excepting, Jeff who is, imo, consistently fair and intellectually honest).
    So, in my case, the moderate right side won the pre-election season, and continue to consume my attention in the post-election season as well.

  8. Giles Avatar
    Giles

    The role that blogs play is to fill the holes in the main stream media.
    In the UK, most right wing blogs are not one nation conservatives because there’s enough papers of that pursuasion – instead they’re typically libertarian conservative. Simlarly most left wing blogs seem to be old labour since most of the left wing media is essentialy new labour.
    But I think IDS is wrong about the US. There’s a diverse range of right wing blogs because there’s a limited number of right wing media in the US. But while the democratic blogs might appear self destructive, its interesting that vitually none of them could be described as Clintonite – one string seems to be pushing for a return to traditional democrat values – Dean and Kos while another strand is the centrist democrats.
    So while the US right blogs are more effective in terms of campeigning, I think that Blogs on the left are probably wrestling with much deeper issues in terms of which direction do we go now.

  9. chuck Avatar
    chuck

    Well,
    way back when the last election season began I was a lifetime Democrat and I went looking for intelligent liberal material on the web. There wasn’t any to speak of. Nuts, lunatics, unoriginal agenda thinkers, one by one I eliminated Marshall, Yglesias, Drum, not to mention the weirdos to their left. I was disgusted. I will never vote Democrat again. From my point of view the party and its backers are hopelessly corrupt and intellectually flacid. The leftist presence on the web led me to this conclusion. The Republicans seem far more sane and interesting. I suspect I will soon become one.

  10. Michael Heinz Avatar
    Michael Heinz

    I’d like to echo what Oat said – I consider myself a moderate but I simply cannot stand the garbage that stands for rational discourse on sites like Daily Kos. While I have found several moderate-to-right blogs that seem to be firmly grounded in the idea that politics is about debate and persuasion, I have yet to find similar sites on the left. (I actually found this site today as part of that ongoing quest.)
    What I find especially frustrating is that if I challenge someone on most of the right wing sites I will get a detailed explanation of why they believe what they believe. If I challenge someone on a left wing site, they call me a Nazi, racist or (apparently worse) a Bush supporter.
    With that sort of approach, the Democrats are just going to continue to shed voters.

  11. carsonfire Avatar
    carsonfire

    The previous “art scandal” noted by JJ on this blog got me to thinking about how my brother (an LA artist) is kind of a flake himself, intellectually and politically. Nice guy, but flaky.
    Seeing this post reminds me that most journalists are flakes, too. That’s the amusing thing about the Gannon story… in a world of professional DOERS, the flakes, whose primary talent is to take notes, are scared spitless by the fact that the DOERS now have a growing equality in reaching an audience and influencing opinion. Before, all the flakes had was a monopoly on the pipeline of information. With that gone, they are more and more outed (as with RatherGate) not as important, unbiased professionals, but as the flakes they are.
    I don’t mean this as an insult, although I guess there’s no way my targets can take it otherwise, but in the last ten years or so, the shift from liberalism to conservatism hasn’t been about ideology so much as it’s been a sorting out of the flakes. When I see guys like Oliver Willis rant, I swear I hear my brother talking in my head. My brother gets all of his news from crotchety liberal neighbors (in his art colony), just as the left blogosphere seems to specialize in an even redistribution of mean and spite.
    Whether the left is willing to face it or not, there is a definitive difference in maturity between right and left blogs overall. The left loves to draw parallels, but often the attempts at comparison are as childish and churlish as their witch hunts.
    There’s no good way to explain this to today’s Democrats. In their mind, the small band of informed Swifties responding to false claims made by Kerry during the last election cycle will always be worse than their leviathanic attempt to dig up any and all irrelevant dirt possible on Bush. To them, exposing the very real forgeries of RatherGate will always be more despicable than their own gleeful destruction of a small-fry reporter with a sex website. To them, complaining about a money-grubbing media corporation flashing tits to minors is more a violation of free speech than the left’s long hold on media outlets and attempts to censor and discredit opposing voices.
    I suspect that one day the Republican party will split into competing factions, itself. There’s a diversity of opinion there that doesn’t exist in the Democratic party, anymore, and so the party won’t always be unified. But for the moment, the economy and the war are unifying the non-flakes onto the conservative side, whereas the flakes still only have anger and a sense of disenfranchisement. And Howard Dean.

  12. Dirk Deppey Avatar
    Dirk Deppey

    It seems to me that blogs brought out different segments of the two strata — they tended to embolden elements farther to the left, but strangely enough the biggest beneficiaries on the right seem to be the libertarian center-right, rather than the crunchier ideologues farther along the spectrum. Which is not to say that the center-left and the far right don’t have their blogs, too; rather, the center-left tended to get better representation in Big Media, while talk radio and the like tended to skew father to the right than many of their ostensible constituents might’ve wanted to follow.
    In short, what’s revolutionary about blogs is the way they’ve opened up the discussion for subdivisions WITHIN the two hemispheres of political thought.

  13. Scott Ferguson Avatar
    Scott Ferguson

    There was a good article with many links on windsofchange.net called “Activisim’s Onanist Fantasy Ideology.” I think it provides some useful context as to why blogs tend to be empowering for the Right, but destructive for the Left.
    The Right is out to win political battles, to develop collectively a coherent social philosophy, and to get the word out in a media and academic environment that has historically hostile. Blogs empower the Right to do this.
    By contrast, the Left’s battles on social philosophy have been settled, and they basically dominate the media and academe. So what good are blogs to the Left?
    “Activism” is an institution on the Left that has no parallel on the Right. The article referenced above points to the concept of Left Activism as having religious overtones. To the bloggers who publish Kos or Atrios, just stirring things up has a spiritual significance and is successful even if nothing lasting is achieved. To these people, the “hit counter” is their God. It’s the mechanism for self-validation and for being able to wield influence in their parties.
    To the Democratic Party, to which they are presumptively aligned, they sap any energy there might be to help move the party’s positions closer to those of the body politic. So what? To these guys, it’s not about winning. It’s about coverting the unwashed. Winning is just icing on the cake.
    This dynamic looks great for the Right. Markos and Duncan are huge handicaps for the Democrats. These men don’t care if they win, because compromise isn’t in their vocabulary (and I bet they would readily admit that). Their hit counters keep rolling. And, as their influence keeps growing, the party they “support” will become more and more marginalized. In a decade, the Democratic Party will be as irrelevant as the Libertarian Party.
    This is a great opportunity for the Greens…

  14. Derek Avatar
    Derek

    There

  15. kl Avatar
    kl

    “Don’t believe your own PR.”
    “…anyone who displays common sense, like Oliver.”
    Heh.

  16. Derek Avatar
    Derek

    Scott Ferguson on the other hand makes a lot of sense. The only quibble I have is that his declaration of the Democratic Party

  17. Kat Avatar
    Kat

    What more can I say, Derek, you replied to yourself better than I could–Ultimately, though, believing your own PR (or in this case BS) is self-defeating.

  18. Derek Avatar
    Derek

    Blogs are like any other tool and can be used constructively and honestly or manipulatively NS dishonestly. In the short one, manipulation and distortion provide the advantage—hence, the early victories on the right and the right’s consequent belief that the blogosphere favors them now and will forever. It’s a little premature to say, though. Of course, we

  19. richard mcenroe Avatar
    richard mcenroe

    Oliver

  20. Derek Avatar
    Derek

    Richard McEnroe is correct that in the UK libel laws and hate speech rules will greatly hinder blog-influence there. Of course, much of the blogosphere is off UK’s shore.
    Here in the US, as I have said, it seems to me too early to draw conclusions as to which side, if either, will gain from blogs. I don

  21. Scott Ferguson Avatar
    Scott Ferguson

    Derek,
    I basically agree with your analysis.
    Prognostication is a treacherous art! I think it’s possible that the Greens could morph into a more centrist party, or that the GOP could get dragged further right by the wing nuts, or that the Democrats could splinter over abortion or other signature issues. But who knows?
    We agree that a power vacuum is appearing in the center. Who will fill it? Make some popcorn, I’m ready for the show.

  22. Derek Avatar
    Derek

    Scott Ferguson is right. The Dems (or Republicans) could (I think eventually will) splinter over abortion and other major issues, including civil and speech right. When Bob Barr sounds like Nat Hentoff on speech issues, when Hillary out-flanks the right on unwanted pregnancy, when GWB’s GOP is suddenly the defender of big government, things are changing.
    There are people out here who believe that both sides, Dem or Republican, right and left, have some good and some bad ideas—and that blind partisan hackery is just ugly and counterproductive. In many ways the outrageous crap that comes from Ann Coulter and or Michael Moore (and people in this comment thread) is part of the problem. There is central ground to exploit and someone will and the fringes will be isolated where it counts: electorally.

  23. Derek Avatar
    Derek

    Note: “the outrageous crap that comes from Ann Coulter and or Michael Moore (and SOME people in this comment thread)….”

  24. Scott Ferguson Avatar
    Scott Ferguson

    Somewhat OT, on previous ref to Oliver Willis and common sense (from WizBang!):

    “I spent a bit of time smacking around Oliver Willis. I really shouldn’t have — it’s easier than beating a retarded kid, and more satisfying…”

  25. Scott Ferguson Avatar
    Scott Ferguson

    I couldn’t resist. So shoot me. :-)

  26. Derek Avatar
    Derek

    Hey, Kat, here’s our leader discussing how to obfuscate and misrepresent his past to the American people in secretly-taped recordings:
    ‘On the tapes, Bush discussed strategies for stonewalling questions about past marijuana use.
    “Do you want your little kid, to say, ‘Hey daddy, President Bush tried marijuana; I think I will?’” said Bush on the tapes. “That’s the message we’ve been sending out. I wouldn’t answer the marijuana question.”
    In a taped segment played on “Good Morning America,” Bush also addressed how he would deal with questions about cocaine use.
    “The cocaine thing, let me tell you my strategy on that,” Bush said on the tape. “Rather than saying no

  27. Kat Avatar
    Kat

    Is there any chance the guy is writing a book?

  28. Nick Avatar
    Nick

    Interesting discussion. Has anyone read a decent comparative analysis of the impact of blogging on politics in the US/UK anywhere?
    I thought it somewhat amusing that the largely one sided conclusions IDS drew in his Guardian piece about blogs providing a means for regenerating British Conservatism, were followed in today’s UK press by articles analysing the impact of liberal bloggers’ in the US who have done so much to expose and draw attention to the James Guckert/Jeff Gannon scandal. I have yet to find IDS’s blog through which he is no doubt going to propel the Tories back to power in the upcoming election – but if anyone knows where he’s hiding it, please let me know. Since he was deposed as opposition leader, largely owing to his virtual invisibility in the media, his appearances have been even more sparse.

  29. Sid Avatar
    Sid

    If the media is so “liberal” why have they been so slow to pick up the Gannon story? I mean c’mon, a fake reporter with a fake name, representing a fake news agency sponsered by GOP supporters, who plays homo prostitute at nights and aligns himself with gay bashers by day, and somehow gets a White House press pass and actally gets called on by the president?
    If this had happened in the Clinton White House… can you imagine the frenzy?
    The media has turned into a pandering lap dog that jumps into the rightwing echochamber blogosphere to get it’s biscuit. There’s just as much blogging going on about the freak Gannon/Guckert story as the Jordan story. Which one did the media pick… and you say the media is liberal? Get over it.

  30. Kat Avatar
    Kat

    During the Clinton admin they did not need a gay whore, they had their own whore—Clinton.
    I guess the Whitehouse should learn a lesson–make a person reveal their sexual escapades before you get a day pass. Gannon is sort of like the gay priests–preach against homosexuality on one hand, while raping young boys and being members of Nambla on the other. Who knows? Is the guy married to a woman? Maybe in public he had to pretend to be anti-gay while in his secret life he liked the boyz. Do we really want to know? I’m sure if there was a wife, there won’t be one for long now.
    Is it a crime to be a gay whore and a reporter?
    What about women who are reporters? What if they whore around? Should they be exposed or is only being a gay one a crime?
    The media hasn’t picked up the Gannon story because they have ethics and refuse to slum with Kos. But if you get a tabloid, I’d bet they have the story you want.

  31. Derek Avatar
    Derek

    Now Kat says that the (liberal) media have ethics.
    Does this idiot have any consistency whatsoever? I believe public discourse is critical and everyone should have a voice. But one does have a difficult time suffering fools like Kat:
    “Is it a crime to be a gay whore and a reporter? What about women who are reporters? What if they whore around. Should they be exposed or is only being a gay one a crime?”
    What. The. Fuck?
    Touching, however, the implicit defense of gays. Is Kat gay? Closeted? A blog-cabin Republican? Hopefully someone is recording what Kat says privately as well as publicly.

  32. Derek Avatar
    Derek

    BTW, Sid, you’re right. But the people claiming the media are liberal have no interest in reality. They just need to repeat their tired mantras to convince themselves they

  33. Kat Avatar
    Kat

    Oh, don’t worry, Derek, I’m not gay, so if you have designs for Gannon, I’m no threat. I’m neither male nor gay. He may help push your brain back into place.

  34. Tom Avatar
    Tom

    Looks like it is Nazi time on this thread. Time to shut her down.
    Nazi Time is when the conversation stops being productive and some one references Hitler or Nazis in an insult. We are not there yet, but close Derek and Kat.

  35. Giles Avatar
    Giles

    I’m bemused by this idea that libel laws are restricting UK blogging – has anyone heard of a litigation threat against a blogger in the UK? Would any sensible person attempt litigation against a possibly peniless blogger in one of the most capricioous libel regimes in the world.
    The idea stakes up like a pile of ladders.

  36. Scott Ferguson Avatar
    Scott Ferguson

    Some people say that the opposite of love is not hate, it’s indifference.
    I think Derek and Kat should exchange phone numbers and find a nice little restuarant someplace for dinner tonight. Anybody else want to chip in on a $25 gift certificate to the Olive Garden?

  37. KisaC Avatar
    KisaC

    How many “moderate conservative” blogs, above the fray as they are, have distanced themselves from the comment that Jimmy Carter is “on the other side?”

  38. Derek Avatar
    Derek

    The Olive Garden! At least when the food fight breaks out, we won’t be wasting anything very good. But true mojo liberalism might just be what Kat needs to thaw out that frigid right-wing heart…

  39. Derek Avatar
    Derek

    btw, if God IS a Republican, why hasn’t He started a blog? The GodBlog could get as many hits as Glenn, even.