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Sponge-bashing

74 comments on Sponge-bashing

Sponge-bashing

: I love it when religious nutjobs reveal themselves to be … religious nutjobs.

Today’s lesson from the gospel according to the looney is that SpongeBob is trying to seduce young people into the evils of homosexuality. An LA Times editorial summarizes the sermon:

Here’s how we learned about SpongeBob.

“Does anyone here know SpongeBob?” Dr. James Dobson asked darkly, addressing a black-tie audience at one of Tuesday’s inaugural events. Dobson is the founder of Focus on the Family, one of the nation’s most outspoken conservative Christian groups. SpongeBob holds hands with his starfish pal Patrick, and likes to watch the imaginary television show “The Adventures of Mermaid Man and Barnacle Boy.” Evidence enough, to Dobson at any rate, that the guy’s a menace.

SpongeBob’s rep is that he’s a nice guy

74 responses to “Sponge-bashing”

  1. Hubris Avatar
    Hubris

    I wish he’d been around to warn against Bugs Bunny’s blatant endorsement of transvestitism.
    Save us from ourselves!

  2. Sissy Willis Avatar
    Sissy Willis

    I’ve seen the video, and it’s a loud, repetative — harmless — bore. But here’s what’s really wrong with SpongeBob’s sellout to WFF. Animated artificial sponges who hold hands with starfish under the sea are not the problem. It’s the lie at the heart of the online pledge kids are asked to sign:

    Tolerance is a personal decision that comes from a belief that every person is a treasure. I believe that America’s diversity is its strength. I also recognize that ignorance, insensitivity and bigotry can turn that diversity into a source of prejudice and discrimination.

    Not. Tolerance comes from the Golden Rule: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. We do not tolerate others whose essence for whatever reason — noise level, political philosophy, body odor, color of ears, lack of backbone — offends us because we believe that “every person is a treasure.” Fortunately, no kid is going to buy that. They know a naked emperor when they see one.
    SpongeBob happens to be in the asexual phase of his poriferan lifecycle

  3. Marc Orchant Avatar
    Marc Orchant

    Keith did a great segment on Countdown last night about this tempest in a teacup. What’s most hilarious about this nonsense is that SpongeBob is hardly in the video! A couple of quick frames is all. The Count and Miss Piggy from Sesame Street get the most air time in my unscientific measurement.

  4. John Avatar
    John

    Dobson’s attack on Spongebob follows in the tradition of the Rev. Donald Wildmon’s attack 15 years ago against Mighty Mouse, when he said a scene of the mouse sniffing flower petals was acutally a drawing of him snorting cocaine. I think Wildmon also was harping about the word “sex” being seen in some cloud formation in “The Lion King” a few years after the Mighty Mouse wars.
    However, to be fair in the world of stupid animation censorship, the secular left is right up there with the religious right, as with Ted Turner’s jihad five years ago against Speedy Gonzales, banning him from television in the United States for being unfair to Mexicans even while Speedy’s cartoons remained wildly popular on TV in Mexico (Turner also banned all Indian-themed cartoons as well, while continuing to do the tommahawk chop at Atlanta Braves games. Do as I say…)

  5. Paul Avatar
    Paul

    Just when those of us on the right of the aisle are feeling good, this mirror image of Michael Moore comes along. SpongeBob? Turn off the TV and find something useful to do!
    Sheesh.

  6. Ruth Avatar
    Ruth

    How does one qualify as a “homosexuality detection expert”? aside from extraordinarily lurid imagination. As with all lobbying, where there is a profit motif there will be some one to feel called.

  7. Hubris Avatar
    Hubris

    More from Dobson.

  8. Steve Avatar
    Steve

    >Here’s a list of news shows stupid enough to
    > have this Dobson clown on the air as if he
    > actually has (1) anything to say, (2) a
    > constituency of size and sanity, (3) a brain.
    Come on, Jeff. Sure, it’s silly for Dobson to attack SpongeBob, but the ad hominem attacks on him and his ‘constituency’ are not necessary. I read Dobson from time to time–does that by necessity make me insane? You already know this, but ad hominem actually diminishes your case.
    Steve
    DOUBLE TOOTHPICKS

  9. Steve K. Avatar
    Steve K.

    I have to agree with Steve (different Steve). I don’t agree with Dobson on everything — and certainly not on his silly attack on SpongeBob — but where’s the tolerance for him and his ilk?
    And BTW Dobson’s constituency is indeed sizeable and sane, despite your silly caricature of him/them.
    Jeff, I appreciate your commentary and insights on our country. I’m still with you 100%. This time, I just think you’re a little off.

  10. Richard Avatar
    Richard

    I think we all know that talking sponges who live in the ocean are all flaming queens who will die of AIDS. It’s about time somebody tackled this important issue. Won’t somebody please think of the children?!?!
    Seriously what the hell is wrong with these people?
    And by the way, I’m a heterosexuality detection expert. I ask out chicks and the ones that won’t go out with me are dykes. :)

  11. Jeff Jarvis Avatar
    Jeff Jarvis

    Ruth: I guess the answer is: really good gaydar.

  12. Harry H Avatar
    Harry H

    I have heard Dr. Dobson for many years and his Focus on the Family Ministry, has helped many many more people than the likes of a blogger like Jeff Davis. He’s the real Nut Job, in this instance. You should check your facts 1st befor you chacture assinate.

  13. Ruth Avatar
    Ruth

    Good on you, Jeff. Good Gaydar is definitely a quality much to be avoided.
    Harry: the facts are the silliness that’s going on. No character assassination is involved.

  14. Mark Erikson Avatar
    Mark Erikson

    I’m a conservative who appreciates much of what Dobson’s done, but I gotta admit, stunts like this sure make him (and the rest of us) look awfully stupid. There doesn’t seem to be much actual “threat” here, and even if there were, making that sort of comment is just begging for ridicule.
    That said, I do wish people would lay off the ad hominem attacks on Dobson et al. I can’t see their hearts, but I really don’t think there’s actual hatred involved on their part.

  15. Danny Taggart Avatar
    Danny Taggart

    How can SpongeBob Squarepants be gay when he’s got a total crush on Sandy the Squirrel (a girl)?

  16. EverKarl Avatar
    EverKarl

    The LAT is cribbing from the NYT, which observed that SpongeBob “has become a camp figure among adult gay men, perhaps because he holds hands with his animated sidekick Patrick.” The LAT omitted Patrick, which explains the alleged crushing on Sandy, who is clearly a beard.
    BTW, Jeff, when you post something like this, it only convinces me more that you are a right-wing shill. And that you took my tinfoil hat.

  17. Bob Avatar
    Bob

    According to your Rule on comments:
    “No personal attacks, hate speech, bigotry, or seven dirty words in the comments or comments will be killed along with commenters”
    So, is calling someone a “nutjob” or “clown” based on his religious beliefs you do not happen to share 1. a personal attack or 2. hate speech or 3. bigotry?
    I thinks its bigotry. What do you think Jeff?

  18. eddie haskell Avatar
    eddie haskell

    Did you do any research into the groups affiliated with the We Are Family campaign? A few clicks would have shown that there is a close connection with the Southern Poverty Law Center. Whether you like it or not, many parents object to cartoon characters being used to advance moral relativism and campaigns connected with radical leftist advocacy groups.

  19. Sluggo Avatar
    Sluggo

    Harry H — I think you may need to get your chacture re-assinated.

  20. Bob Avatar
    Bob

    You should check your facts 1st befor you chacture assinate.
    ROTFFL. It’s like, no riposte even needed.

  21. Bob Avatar
    Bob

    Bob to other Bob: er, calling someone a clown pales in comparison to hate and bigotry DobsonCo promotes. Actually, it’s just an accurate description.

  22. Joe Avatar
    Joe

    Bob – the first one – what in the world is wrong with Jeff making fun of someone who is relating a beloved cartoon character to some imagined gay agenda? And how in the world is it bigotry? Or does it say in the Bible “thou shalt not watch talking sponges?” Just because you like Dobson doesn’t mean you need to follow every word he says. Of course, if you could actually think for yourself, make you wouldn’t like him so much.

  23. JTHC Avatar
    JTHC

    ** Sure, it’s silly for Dobson to attack SpongeBob, but the ad hominem attacks on him and his ‘constituency’ are not necessary.**
    I disagree. I think it’s the duty of every good conservative to recognize and denounce the nutjobs that arise from our own ranks. After all, isn’t this the problem we have with “mainstream” liberals, that they embrace or tolerate people like Michael Moore or Cynthia McKinney? How much more would I respect Bill Clinton or Jimmy Carter if either came out and said, “I’m a real Democrat; that Michael Moore is a barking moonbat and I’ll have nothing to do with him.”?
    So, to do my part for political integrity, I’ll say it here: Dobson is an ignorant nutjob.

  24. Earl T Avatar
    Earl T

    Whoa! JTHC! Thought you were trying to offer some insight and instead you continue to diminish the level of discourse!
    Dobson’s NOT a nutjob nor is he ignorant, though I disagree with him 95% of the time.
    But, instead of flinging “scat”, let’s look at what he attacked: that stupid little oath thingy in the SB video!. It’s allegedly aimed at children, yet it raises issues of sexuality? To what purpose?
    Think little kids walk around pontificating on the gender identity problems of their playmates? Of course they don’t and that Dobson’s underlying point!
    What agenda is advanced by bringing this subject up with children?
    As Sissy noted above, the entire premise of the oath is mis-placed, it simply needs to state that you should treat your friends as you yourself wish to be treated—no need for sex, color or any other irrelevant physical characteristic to enter the equation.
    And since it appears Jeff has suspended his comments “Rule”–Do unto others, JJ–I’ll just call him a dunderhead!

  25. Joe Avatar
    Joe

    Earl T, in what world do you live where anyone (let alone everyone) doesn’t take “sex, color, or any other irrelevant physical characteristic” into account? Kids are a whole lot smarter than you think; they’re not living in a fantasy world. They see many, many adults (including Dr. Dobson) disparaging others solely due to their sex, color, physical characteristics or in the case of Dobson, their sexuality. To create a video which teaches children that such viewpoints are wrong is a way to counteract such wrong-headed beliefs that they otherwise are learning. Simply teaching “do unto others” while ignoring racism and sexism is way too idealistic as to be useful in this world.

  26. Ruth Avatar
    Ruth

    You may wish to register your feelings on the CNN poll of its readers, whether SpongeBob is (1) promoting acceptance of homosexuality, (2) promoting tolerance and diversity, or (3) absorbent, yellow and porous.
    (3) is winning.
    Now that really DOES bring the level of discourse up a notch.

  27. Bob Avatar
    Bob

    Nothing wrong with saying Dobson is mistaken, has his facts wrong etc. Even calling him intolerant is fair commentary. Calling him names does not advance an argument. I though Jeff agreed.
    I have heard of Dobson but have never heard his radio show or read his organization’s material. But I would think that his audience does not think of him as a nutjob. Isn’t such a term a matter of opinion?
    I thought Jeff wanted calm discourse, not name calling. Or does the rule not apply to people of a different religious view? If that is the case, then it is bigotry.

  28. Jonathan Weber Avatar
    Jonathan Weber

    A friend in Colorado Springs, home of Dobson & his group, notes a great bumpersticker:
    “Focus on Your Own Goddamn Family”
    Well said.

  29. Mr. Dart Avatar
    Mr. Dart

    Jonathon’s beloved bumper sticker says:”Focus on Your Own Goddamn Family” How very sad. Aside from the blasphemy, anyone who was proud of that statement has completely missed the mission of FOTF. They are providing parents of young children help to focus on their own family. Duh.
    BTW, why are the NY and LA Times unable to quote Dr. Dobson in their screeds? They are very angry and defensive about something and yet I was unable to find any dialog with Dobson about this. As for Olbermann, we who know him would say, “Keith doth protest too much.”

  30. Jason Avatar
    Jason

    “Religious nutjob”?
    So what makes him a nutjob? It seems to be based on the assertion that when Dr. Dobson asked “Does anyone here know SpongeBob?” he asked the question “darkly”.
    It seems to be true: There are none so intolerant as the tolerant.

  31. Joe Avatar
    Joe

    Bob – you are right to point out that Jeff calling him a clown is different than simply calling him wrong and intolerant, but I don’t think he’s being bigoted toward religion, just a certain segment of people, including Dobson, who use religion to promote their own form of bigotry. “Religious nutjobs” is shorthand for a “group of people who I think are nutty who use religion as a basis for intolerance”. I don’t think he’s calling Dobson and his ilk nutjobs or clowns because they are religious, but because of the beliefs they are expounding (finding a link between a cartoon and a gay agenda, for instance). In that case, I don’t see the bigotry to religion that you are offended by. Name-calling yes, bigotry no.

  32. JTHC Avatar
    JTHC

    I grew up in Colorado Springs, and long before it became a bastion of bigotry and religious zealotry through the works of Will Perkins and Dobson, it was a nice, working-class, military town. It was staunchly conservative, but more of the old-school, “You leave me alone, and I’ll do the same” variety. I hardly recognize it anymore.
    As for the statement that “They are providing parents of young children help to focus on their own family,” what a laugh. Real churches and schools do that. FOTF is a political advocacy group. They have a hopeless inability to stay out of anyone’s business. And they’re absolutely obsessed (OBSESSED!) with homosexuality, as if the gay brigades are seconds away from marching up Academy Blvd and busting into people’s homes. Right.
    As for heaping needless abuse and perjoratives on Dobson and company, well, the world needs more ridicule for those deserving of ridicule. I do no less for the loony left.

  33. Bob Avatar
    Bob

    Joe, fine, it is a personal attack. It’s still banned by his Rule.
    Something to consider. If you enter “nutjob” or “nutjobs” in this site’s search function, most of the uses by Jeff relates to religion. Religious often (usually?) modifies nutjob as in the Dobson post. Does this cut against or in favor of bigotry? No conclusion, just asking.

  34. Richard Avatar
    Richard

    People with imaginary friends in the sky are nutjobs.
    Sorry, that was mean, but I couldn’t resist. Don’t respond with a bunch of anger, I was being a smart-ass.

  35. Evan Avatar
    Evan

    Exactly Earl.
    It’s apparently leftists who can’t leave SpongeBob alone. Instead of simply leaving it as an enjoyable cartoon, they have to put a children’s ‘pledge’ into it with ideas that many people would find objectionable.
    Here’s a part of that ‘pledge’: “I pledge to have respect for people whose abilities, beliefs, culture, race, sexual identity or other characteristics are different from my own.”
    First off, it’s clear that Jeff and others here don’t agree with this pledge, because they clearly doesn’t have respect for Dobson’s beliefs (#2 in the list). And that is fine. I don’t have respect for many beliefs forwarded by various people, and I don’t expect my children to respect them either. And it’s obviously ridiculous to even say we should respect all beliefs, because intolerance itself is a belief.
    I also don’t respect all ‘cultures’ (#3) – why would I want my child to respect a culture that advocates women as ‘ho’s’, or a Islamic culture that advocates murder of innocents?
    I also would believe that most people would not advocate respect for all ‘sexual identities’. The person who identifies themselves as a polygamist or a child molester would find it hard to find other than a tiny fraction of people who would respect that ‘identity’. And of course, children quite easily and naturally accept the identify of a heterosexual mother and father, which they don’t need to pledge to accept. Therefore, it’s pretty clear that the real sexual identify that children are supposed to pledge to ‘accept’ is homosexuality.
    Bottom line – if Dobson is angry because SpongeBob holds hands with some other cartoon character, then he is being ridiculous and I disagree with him. However, if he is simply saying that a cartoon is no place for a pledge asking children to respect any belief, culture, or sexual identity – then I agree with him 100%.

  36. Hubris Avatar
    Hubris

    I could be totally mistaken, but I think the pledge is just on the web site of the We Are Family group that produced the video. I don’t think it’s part of the video.

  37. worrywart Avatar
    worrywart

    This thread should be renamed to “Why Religious Nutjobs Are Obsessed with [Male] Homosexulaity”. The answer should be obvious to anyone. It’s the only “sin” mentioned in the Bible that they still have popular support for condemning. And with popular support, comes $$$.
    The problem is, that popular support is waning. If you look at the results of some of the “Marriage Ammendments” in the last election, some of them only passed by a mere 60% or so margin (and in extremely conservative areas, it passed with only 78% or so support). If these same issues were put to a vote 10 years ago, they’d easily have passed with 90% or more support.
    The problem is not only are Dobson and others nutjobs, but they’re also stupid. (yes, he has a Ph.D, whatever, I know plenty of Ph.Ds who are dumber than bricks). They, more than anyone, have brought these issues to national attention, and the public isn’t as stupid as they are. People do research these issues and form their own opinions, regardless of what they’re told by right-wing blowhards with really big microphones.
    So, this is why these groups are focused on male homosexuality (most straight men think lesbians are hot as long as they get to watch, so no one gets any money for condemning those darned lesbians). And this is why it’s important for them to try as hard as possible to prevent gay men from “converting” straight men and boys, because once they try it, they’ll never think it’s “gross” and won’t give money to these conservative groups.
    I mean, what other sins are unpopular enough to inspire people with enough fear to donate to these organizations? Infidelity? Um, no… Blasphemy? Um, who cares… Swearing? Who gives a f**k… Male to Male Anal Sex?! O. M. G…. let me get my checkbook, do whatever it takes to prevent those perverts from corrupting our youth!
    Unfortunately for them, their own furvor is bringing the issues to national attention and the nation is more and more likely to find their vitrol wanting.

  38. Ink Slinger Avatar
    Ink Slinger

    If Christ were in this thread He might ask some of you to cast the first stone … know what? I think some of you would.
    Most of what is being said here is being said sans research, knowledge, or history. From the information I’m seeing on the net, the NYT and the LAT have done a hatchet job on Dobson. How sad!
    Dennis Prager offered good advice on people who voice their opinions couched in terms like those of Jarvis, “If you expect people to be tolerant of you, you must be tolerant of them. Tolerance is a reciprocal arrangement.”

  39. Pat Curley Avatar
    Pat Curley

    “An LA Times editorial summarizes the sermon:”
    I think we can see where Jeff went off the rails on this one. He read an LA Times editorial and thought it was factual.

  40. Earl T Avatar
    Earl T

    Joe,
    Obviously, you have NO CHILDREN! Lil’ critters under 10 don’t worry ’bout sex or shouldn’t have to! It’s that simple!
    Anyone who thinks to mention “sexual identity” to those who have no clue about what that is, is simply pushing their own agenda on unsuspecting captive audience and that simply is unfair!
    OTOT, it’s my sense the religious folk don’t hate gays, they just find their “preference” distasteful and don’t want it unremittingly brought up as the singular, defining element of one’s persona!
    How many heteros define themselves by their personal sexual appetites? I love certain kinds of “dress” and,uh, positions, but I don’t drag the details of that into civil conversation, nor do I drape myself all over my wife and obviously tongue her in public to establish my “identity”! Yet, watch a gay couple or a parade on Castro Street in San Francisco—everything is “all sex, all the time” to a point of disgust for those of normal appetites.
    Not only that, but gays have ruined a perfectly good word!
    Gimmee a break—and a respite, please!

  41. David R. Block Avatar
    David R. Block

    Dobson’s main supporters are the home schooling crew. Outside of those circles, he doesn’t have as much (if any) pull.

  42. Ink Slinger Avatar
    Ink Slinger

    Block says …
    “Dobson’s main supporters are the home schooling crew. Outside of those circles, he doesn’t have as much (if any) pull.”
    —
    Really doubt you can support that claim. Evidently the US News & World Report folks were smoking something.

  43. Adam Avatar
    Adam

    F is for friends who do stuff together
    U is for you an me
    N is anywhere and anytime at all down here in the deep blue sea
    Sounds DEEPLY disturbed and overtly gay to me…
    This Spongebob fellow (whoever he is) obviously is very clever and has nothing but pure political agenda on his mind. I wonder what his next act of subversion will be?

  44. kim Avatar
    kim

    Don’t you think that calling Dobson a “nutcase” and “clown” is a little intolerant? Maybe the idea of spongebob being gay is a little bit of a stretch, but you don’t have to bash the author. Practice what you preach and respect his view.
    Incedently, the pledge is the issue. It’s so clear that I think even you could see it.

  45. Charlie (Colorado) Avatar
    Charlie (Colorado)

    No, Jeff, you’re mistaken. It is funny.

  46. Jim Avatar
    Jim

    Sorry to get off subject but I found this rather amusing punishment tool for your children at “Focus On Family” website.
    http://family.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/family.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=747
    I wonder how many “parents” have given points for watching SpongeBob.

  47. Joe Avatar
    Joe

    Earl T,
    If you are an adult and come into contact with any “lil’ critters under 10” – who talks like that? – and don’t think they aren’t smart enough to recognize an attitude of hatred and intolerance towards gay people from you and people like you, then you really are ignorant. There are so many frighteningly biased opinions in just your short post, that it frightens me if you do have children. Kids absorb a whole hell of a lot when they’re young – they’re sort of like sponges :), so don’t think your personal bias towards gays doesn’t rub off. How do you think racist people became racist? They learned it from adults. So to pretend that the intolerance doesn’t exist is ludicrous.
    Using cartoon characters to try to teach children a lesson about tolerance towards all people – regardless of sexuality, race, RELIGION, etc. – makes perfect sense. We can only hope and pray that some children taught to be bigots by adults like you might listen to Spongebob instead and grow up to treat others as they would want themselves to be treated.
    And as for the other parts of your post, I am dumbfounded that someone in 2005 in America would actually sit down and write out a bigoted stereotype about gays and “all sex, all the time”. Wow. How many gay parades do you go to, Earl? I’ve never been to one. I’ve hardly ever seen any gays anywhere kissing let alone having sex. I’ve seen plenty of heterosexuals having sex and simulated sex and french kissing, right on my television, pretty much at any time of the day. Hopefully, all of the “lil’ critters” only watch TV when Spongebob is on. Otherwise, they might be disgusted by heterosexuality for being all sex, all the time.

  48. Joe Avatar
    Joe

    Bob –
    If you are right about most instances of Jeff’s use of the word “nutjob” being used along with “religious”, that doesn’t sound good. I know Jeff is religious himself, so painting him with religious bigotry doesn’t make sense, but he probably should use the phrase “nutjobs using religion” to clarify this position. The fact that the nutjobs are religious certainly doesn’t mean that all religious people are nutjobs. Just like the fact that Earl T. watches a lot of gay kissing in San Francisco doesn’t mean that all gays are openly sexual.
    Maybe we could teach people when they’re young not to stereotype people based on religion or race or gender or sexuality and to instead talk about tolerance. We could even use popular cartoon characters to help with the lesson. Hey – who in the world would find that objectionable? (Sorry, couldn’t resist – not making fun of you, Bob – don’t think you posted in protest of the spongebob video like some of the “nutjobs” above)

  49. Patterico Avatar
    Patterico

    An LA Times editorial summarizes the sermon:
    Well, if an LA Times editorial says it, it *must* be true!

  50. Jeff Jarvis Avatar
    Jeff Jarvis

    Patterico: Are you really that obsessed with the LATimes? I could have picked a summary from a score of papers, happened to pick that one. Or perhaps you have stumbled upon the vast mainstream religious conspiracy….

  51. Jason Avatar
    Jason

    Jeff,
    Why did you quote the LA Times? The editorial is horribly vague on what Dobson said. I count one quote from Dobson:
    “Does anyone here know SpongeBob?” Then the editorial describes the quote as being said “darkly”. Is there an agenda in this editorial? Of course there is. This is not an objective portrayal of what Dobson said.
    Why is an editorial your fact source? An editorial (i.e. opinion) item in a paper frequently criticized for its far left bias is hardly a credible source to quote about what FotF really stands for or what Dobson actually said.

  52. TexasJew Avatar
    TexasJew

    What’s far worse than “religious nutjobs” is religiously intolerant nutjobs.
    What is your viewpoint on Hasidic Jews, for example?
    Are they “religious nutjobs”, “filled with hate” at non-Jews? I can tell you, as a religious Jew myself, that the Hasidic beliefs are often intolerant, but they are their beliefs and no whining LAT editorial or sneering blog will ever mean a damn thing to them.
    We watch Spongebob and my 5-year old daughter loves it; it’s a great show. But James Dobson is an articulate and passionate speaker for families, and even if he went over the line here, that’s no reason to either viciously attack him ad hominem, or mock his religious beliefs. That’s a slippery slope, especially with a corrupted and dishonest source of news such as the LAT.

  53. Ruth Avatar
    Ruth

    Maybe to satisfy criticism, the website which is the only place the ‘pledge’ is featured should offer an alternate pledge, to the effect that all forms of religious, racial, ethnic, disability, sexual preference, and other intolerance is okay, and the affected child/children pledge to ignore all of the above and just enjoy the cartoon?? or practice intolerance out of respect for their parents’ practice thereof?
    I can think of any number of alternates, but the actual pledge looms ever more attractive.
    To quote a well-known song from South Pacific (the musical), “You’ve got to be taught to hate and fear, You’ve got to be taught from year to year, To hate all the people your relatives hate, You’ve got to be carefully taught. [Repeat.]”

  54. Kat Avatar
    Kat

    I remember this quote from the Gay Community News:
    “The family unit-spawning ground of lies, betrayals, mediocrity, hypocrisy and violence-will be abolished. The family unit, which only dampens imagination and curbs free will, must be eliminated.All churches who condemn us will be closed. Our only gods are handsome young men. We adhere to a cult of beauty, moral and esthetic. All that is ugly and vulgar and banal will be annihilated. Since we are alienated from middle-class heterosexual conventions, we are free to live our lives according to the dictates of the pure imagination. For us too much is not enough.”

  55. eddie haskell Avatar
    eddie haskell

    Weber – If you believe that Dobson should focus on his own family, I guess you believe the same of the organizations behind this video aimed at other people’s kids, right?

  56. Jonathan Weber Avatar
    Jonathan Weber

    As far as I can tell the purveyors of the video (which I have not seen) are promoting tolerance and kindness. That is rather different from promoting an ideology which holds the opposite, i.e. if you do not agree with my religion you must be stopped, cast out, shut up, whatever. To argue that you should be able to live your life as you see fit and enjoy equal rights is not the same thing as saying in order to have equal rights you must live your life the way I see fit. If people want to try and persuade others of the rightness of their views, fine. Seeking to legislate those views (i.e. homosexuals should be repressed) is un-American.
    As far as being blasphemous, as another poster said, well, sorry, but I don’t see why I have to be polite to someone who is so willing and eager to impose his primitive superstitions on me and my family.

  57. Kat Avatar
    Kat

    No, the purveyors of this video are pushing forth the idea that homosexuality is right and religion is wrong. To argue that you should be able to live your life as you see fit and enjoy equal rights is not the same thing as saying in order to have equal rights you must stomp on the beliefs of others or else you can call them religious nutjobs.. If people want to try and persuade others of the rightness of their views, fine. Seeking to legislate those views (gay marriage is right and religion is wrong) is un-American. Calling my beliefs primitive superstitions as you use comic icons to shove your views down my throat makes you an intolerant Christianophobe. If you want me to tolerate your views you must tolerate mine–it’s not a case of one or the other–it is both. Gays need to tolerate my views–they can’t force me to accept theirs, but I can tolerate them, as long as I teach my children my views–not theirs. And gay parents can teach their kids whatever they want.

  58. The Quease Avatar
    The Quease

    : Here’s a list of news shows stupid enough to have this Dobson clown on the air as if he actually has (1) anything to say, (2) a constituency of size and sanity, (3) a brain.
    Look’s like you seem to think Mr. Dobson is newsworthy, too. You should be careful wafting the stupid word around until you’re sure it doesn’t apply to yourself.
    ~TQ~

  59. Patterico Avatar
    Patterico

    Jeff,
    Just so you know where I’m coming from, I am not religious and I don’t care a whit for James Dobson. I hardly know anything about him.
    But I do know something about the L.A. Times. And knowing The Times as I do, I would be very reluctant to use an editorial of theirs as a source of fact — particularly relating to a hot-button “culture war” issue such as this. The paper simply has too checkered a history of misstating the facts on “culture war” issues like gun control, abortion, and criminal justice.
    By the way, I doubt that the L.A. Times is unique in this failing. It just happens to be the paper I read most closely. I am not impressed that you could provide summaries from scores of papers, because I have seen scores of papers get the same basic facts wrong — especially when targeting a popular villain such as Justice Scalia or James Dobson.
    On an issue like this, until I saw a full transcript of Dobson’s remarks, I would assume that there is a chance the guy is being smeared — no matter how many papers summarize his remarks. I don’t mean to defend Dobson, or even to affirmatively claim that the papers got it wrong. I’m just saying that I’d be very wary about accepting their characterizations at face value on something like this.
    That’s not love of James Dobson speaking, and it’s not religious belief speaking. It’s a fundamental distrust of the media’s ability to fairly portray any bitterly divisive social issue with a convenient conservative villain.
    Unrelated aside: I get annoyed when people characterize me as “obsessed” with the L.A. Times. It strikes me as a cheap way to devalue and marginalize my criticisms. If someone asserts bias on such issues, but doesn’t document it, they are told they lack the evidence. If a critic does painstakingly document it, as I do, people who disagree with the critic will portray him as a crazed obsessive.
    I think your crusade against the FCC is admirable, and I’d call your attitude “dogged.” But then, I agree with you. I’ll bet those who don’t — those who want the government to control broadcast speech in this country — would call your posts about the FCC “obsessive.” Wouldn’t you rather have such people engage you on the issues, rather than attempt to marginalize you with rhetoric about your “obsessiveness”?

  60. Xrlq Avatar
    Xrlq

    Patterico’s right, the L.A. Times frequently misstates facts in ways that just “happen” to support their agenda. Usually, but not always, these factual misstatements are made in editorials. In this case, it’s pretty clear what happened: Dobson attacked an education video based on its content, which he has every right to do, and he also mentioned that SpongeBob appears in that video, which is correct. All this crap about Dobson “attacking” SpongeBob is just that, crap.
    And speaking of crap, spare us the ueber-crap about Patterico being “obsessed” with the L.A. Times. We need people like that for every major paper.

  61. Patterico Avatar
    Patterico

    I appreciate the defense, Xrlq, but I am bothered by your calling Jeff’s use of the word “obsessed” as “crap.” It’s not that I think you’re wrong in disagreeing with him on this point, but I just wouldn’t phrase it that way. That kind of language is bound to get Jeff’s dander up. Jeff is a valuable force on the Web, and I’d rather try to gently persuade him to be less dismissive of the sort of media criticism I do, rather than attack him for his attitude.

  62. Jeff Jarvis Avatar
    Jeff Jarvis

    Patterico: Thank you. A mightly neighborly reply and I appreciate it. You are an important force on the web — and in media — and so it’s good we can discuss and disagree and shake hands. Appreciate it. So I hope you know that I was, in a friendly way, tweaking you for tweaking me on linking to the LA Times. There was no agenda in the link; it was a handy link with a handy summary. Next time, the AP?

  63. Xrlq Avatar
    Xrlq

    Patterico, I don’t disagree that Jeff is generally a valuable force on the Web. There’s no question about that. This particular post, however, is an exception to that rule, as was the subsequent remark about being “obsessed” with the L.A. Times. If YakLeft, Atrios, the Daily Kotze, the Martini Republican moron twins or even some L.A. Times reporter had written exactly the same thing, I wouldn’t have hestitated to call it crap, and I doubt that you would have, either. Am I to give Jeff a pass in this instance just because he craps less often than most? I say no. Most people are full of crap sometimes, and everyone is fair game when they are.
    Returning to the issue, I don’t think there’s anything inherently bad about linking to an L.A. Times article; it’s just that in many cases they get the basic facts wrong, and in this particular case the only key fact they appear to have gotten right was the unremarkable part about Dobson asking everyone in the room if they’d heard of SpongeBob. Yup, he asked that question all right, but so what?

  64. Patterico Avatar
    Patterico

    If YakLeft, Atrios, the Daily Kotze, the Martini Republican moron twins or even some L.A. Times reporter had written exactly the same thing, I wouldn’t have hestitated to call it crap, and I doubt that you would have, either.
    Probably not. I just don’t feel any desire to be polite to them. The Martini Republic guys are nasty name-calling liars. Kos is the guy who famously said “screw ’em” about murdered American contractors. TalkLeft is the one who wrote a post defending someone who was being investigated by the Secret Service, failed to mention the fact that the person had advocated assassinating President Bush — and edited comments (including mine) that dared point out that inconvenient fact.
    And Atrios is, well, Atrios.
    And I think we know how I feel about the L.A. Times.
    Jeff, by contrast, has done tremendous work setting up bloggers in places like Iraq and Iran, where blogging really could help change the way oppressed people live. He is also a passionate voice for free speech. To my way of thinking, these things entitle him to a lot more courtesy from me when I disagree with him.
    I agree with Xrlq that, from what I have read today about this controversy, it looks like Dobson is probably getting a raw deal — just as I suspected. It also looks like the primary culprit is the New York Times.

  65. Ruth Avatar
    Ruth

    Patterico, are you sure some one who condemns a cartoon character specifically, with the background of a video distributed to schools which emphasizes acceptance of varieties of types, is getting a raw deal? Yes, headlines took off on the accusation that the character of SpongeBob is gay, which accusation is patently absurd. But isn’t the source of glee a really skewed point of view that wants to ‘protect the family’ from a positive influence?

  66. Steve J. Avatar
    Steve J.

    SpongeDob StickyPants does have a large following. At least 7 million listen to his radio show each week and he is part of the Republican Noise Machine (David Brock).
    The tolerance pledge that StickyPants finds so offensive is below:
    THE TOLERANCE PLEDGE
    Link
    Tolerance is a personal decision that comes from a belief that every person is a treasure. I believe that America’s diversity is its strength. I also recognize that ignorance, insensitivity and bigotry can turn that diversity into a source of prejudice and discrimination.
    To help keep diversity a wellspring of strength and make America a better place for all, I pledge to have respect for people whose abilities, beliefs, culture, race, sexual identity or other characteristics are different from my own.
    This seems fine to be but then again, I have real moral values, not some devised by Karl Rove.

  67. Patterico Avatar
    Patterico

    Ruth,
    I am not sure about anything here, including whether Dobson is “some one who condemns a cartoon character specifically.” I encourage everyone to read Xrlq’s link (an editorial from an online publication about cartoons) before making up their minds.
    You could also follow my link explaining that the culprit is the NYTimes — there are other links there, including Dobson’s statement, and a link to the site of the organization promoting the video.
    The only direct quote from Dobson so far is: “Does anybody here know SpongeBob?” For the rest of it, we have to trust a NYTimes reporter. No thanks. They’re trying to connect Dobson to Falwell and the Teletubbies, and I’m not sure the comparison is a fair one.

  68. Patterico Avatar
    Patterico

    I have no problem with that pledge either. (Well, its language is too cloying for me, but I agree with the concepts.) But its suggestion that homosexuality should not be condemned — a suggestion with which I agree — runs afoul of the religious beliefs of some. I don’t think those people are evil. I just disagree with them.

  69. eddie haskell Avatar
    eddie haskell

    Weber – You showed your true colors – you are all for promoting your values (even by using cartoon characters to indoctrinate children too young to understand or think criticially about the issue involved) but anyone who disagrees with you should mind their own business. Why am I not surprised?

  70. Tony Avatar
    Tony

    Is Spongebob gay? It’s debatable. Is the left-wing media willing to use any icon they can get their grimy little paws on, to push the homosexual agenda in the faces of adults and children alike? You can bet your entire life savings on it, they are!! Tolerance, diversity and multiculturalism are all the same mask for the task of pushing homo-erotic behavior in your face. Their only drive… to justify their perverted behavior and say that if you disagree with my perversion you must be hating me! What a big load of DOG CRAP!!! One final note, I think it very distasteful, to call someone with a bit more wisdom than yourself, a nutjob! But I’m sure,having high standards of morality diqualifies anybody in your eyes as being wise!

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