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God would roll His eyes III

23 comments on God would roll His eyes III

God would roll His eyes III

: Blog Done With Mirrors has a wonderful commentary on what is becoming known as the Hewitt-Jarvis debate on religion in America this Christmas season. This is the best of blogs: Hugh and I (and others) have a good and respectful discussion and others join in with good thoughts.

If you close one eye and look at America, you can see basic ideas of right and wrong — a bulwark of a robust, free people — eroding under attack from reckless and embittered relativists. Close the other eye and you see just as clearly blind fundamentalist morality on the march, threatening to enshrine an un-democratic Old Testament creed as the higher law.

Open both eyes, then, and see what Madison saw. The tension, the negotiation, the struggle for consensus and a common view, is the unscripted balancing act that keeps America safe.

But the best thing about this Hewitt-Jarvis discussion is what it isn’t. So far, the focus isn’t on government and religion. That’s in there, but the posts are largely about We the People and our faiths and our joint ownership of the nation. I like that. Too often talk of religion in America presumes Americans are passive little leaves buffeted by the whims of a few fundamentalists in the corridors of Congress, or a few secularists on the 9th Circuit Court.

We’re citizens, not subjects.

: ON THE OTHER HAND: There is the Lileks–Wolcott debate.

: MORE: Michael B

23 responses to “God would roll His eyes III”

  1. BumperStickerist Avatar
    BumperStickerist

    Game-Set-Match: Lileks.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

  2. Jim in Texas Avatar
    Jim in Texas

    So, Jeff, you have cats? (or ocicats) ;-)

  3. Mike G Avatar
    Mike G

    You know, I’ve been reading Lileks every morning for 2-3 years now, and though I’ve read Wolcott over the years in VF and elsewhere, after a couple of tries his blog fell off my list. I think it’s interesting to explore just why Wolcott, the bigger name and a critic of real reputation, has been a dud at blogging while Lileks, whom I once embarassed myself here by referring to as “a minor league Dave Barry” (which is, I think, how a bigger media macher like Wolcott would see him), quickly became a prince among bloggers and essential daily reading.
    Part of it is sort of like why certain people can be TV stars and certain very big movie stars cannot. The day-in, day-out familiarity requires a certain geniality and likability that is beyond many movie stars, for instance, whose appeal lies in intensity, mystery, etc. It’s like the various attempts at giving George C. Scott a TV series over the years; you feared for the safety of your set from the tiger they’d just caged inside it. Lileks has been very good at leading with his sort of Dave Barry-Bill Bryson wry sensibility and then– in his blog– following up with Jake LaMotta’s right hook when there’s something that pisses him off. What he doesn’t do is start the morning like Michael Savage, screaming in your face. (I don’t mean to suggest any other resemblance to Michael Savage, either.)
    Wolcott isn’t in your face in that way, but he does have what just about everybody in the Vanity Fair-Tina Brown-Trendier-Than-Thou Media Cosmos has, which is, Professional Cynicism as corrosive as Alien blood. (The just about is there to give Jeff a pass; I don’t understand how he remains mostly immune, apart from a few forgivable lapses like admiring the relentlessly micro-minded “Next Big Thing.”) Wolcott, who owns animals with a name so fey I suspect they can only reproduce parthenogenetically, has to sneer at Lileks’ enthusiasm for mere childraising (along with Instapundit’s enthusiasm for digital toys, etc.) because he fears his trendy friends catching him expressing an earnest emotion; and then how uncool would he be?
    This cynicism is obviously a professional necessity in at least part of the New York media world, but it makes his blog monotonous and wearying– as it did for Wonkette, whom I do not (heart), whom I found hilarious for about two weeks, but then had had enough, forever, under the silly little delusion that there actually was an election going on with real issues and a diet of anal sex jokes and Washingtonienne innuendo was not adequately nutritious. Part of what makes the successful bloggers successful, then, is not just that they have the more genial personalities who it is pleasant to return to day after day– though that’s clearly a big part of it, who does not want a beer with Tim Blair?– but that mostly coming from Knoxville or Minneapolis or Australia or wherever, they escape the professional coastal-media-type’s need for 24-hour snideness and are unashamed to be earnest about what they care about, whether that’s very very serious (the first amendment and the FCC) or very very geeky (the guy who composed the canned background themes for Star Trek).
    Clearly there are people who manage the trick and, as another blogger would say, are able to be In, But Not Of the Vanity Fair; Terry Teachout comes to mind as someone who is at least as accomplished as Wolcott in that world and yet maintains a hightoned variation of the same earnest enthusiasm, and has no qualms about being heartfelt about something really, really good. But Wolcott, at least, comes across not only as unpleasantly catty (ocicatty?) but, to use another word Lileks throws out along the way, twitchy, unnerved and unpleasant about the idea that there might be another path to the top than the one he’s pledged his life to. The rewards one might find along the way in his observations seem too few to endure the grating personality that delivers them.

  4. Tim Avatar
    Tim

    Lileks: “Anyway, I was wrong. He doesn

  5. Jim Treacher Avatar
    Jim Treacher

    What Mike G said.

  6. paladin Avatar
    paladin

    “Now don’t get all offended”, etc. How very disingenuous.

  7. Eileen Avatar
    Eileen

    Isn’t this eye roll/sigh number, um, IV?

  8. Jenny Avatar
    Jenny

    Well, Eileen, humans are the species that created things like The Swan and that dreadful US Weekly mag. I figure God’s got plenty of reasons to roll her eyes.
    Lovely post, Jeff. Thank you. And thanks to Hugh Hewitt and the lovely people at Done With Mirrors.
    Merry Christmas, everyone. (Or Merry Solstice, as I’d say it, but I celebrated it last night, so it’s over now.)

  9. Eileen Avatar
    Eileen

    “I figure God’s got plenty of reasons to roll her eyes.” Agree absolutely. I was only trying to point out (politely) that this was the IVth post on the topic. Or am I just seeing double? Hell, I hope JJ reaches L on these issues.

  10. John Thacker Avatar
    John Thacker

    Well, around here in Durham, NC, we certainly don’t blame it on the Jews. After all, the city had to take down all of its possibly religious holiday decorations when an atheist complained about the menorah design on one of them. Go figure.
    Of course, the fundamentalists around here had no problems with the menorah.

  11. Eileen Avatar
    Eileen

    John,
    How very most sad.
    The atheists are here to rule the world? No. Watch the courts find Our balance vis a vis first amendment freedom of religion issues. I have confidence…
    As for those who purport to be religious ‘leaders’ of their churches who – at the same time – call believers ‘religious nutjobs’? Again, I’m sure the evening process will apply.

  12. HA Avatar
    HA

    Here is the First Amendment:
    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
    I would like to see someone explain how this amendment can be used as a basis for suppressing religious expression.

  13. Jim in Texas Avatar
    Jim in Texas

    Mike G.
    Damn fine assessment. So, you got a blog??

  14. Diane Ezer Avatar
    Diane Ezer

    Game set and match to Lileks? How could that be when he baldly misstates the facts?
    “the Post Office’s webpage of seasonal stamps named Kwanzaa, twice; ditto Hanukkah. Fine! Great! Who cares? But it called the Christmas
    stamp “Holiday Traditional.” I thought this was . . . unusual.”
    But this is simply false. Please see:
    http://www.usps.com/communications/news/stamps/welcome.htm
    Scroll down to October 6, which lists the “MADONNA AND CHILD ART FEATURED ON 2004 U.S. POSTAL SERVICE CHRISTMAS POSTAGE STAMP.” Gorgeous stamp. From what I can tell it’s been up there for months,
    unless they are doctoring their site.
    I don’t see any war on Christmas. Christmas is everywhere in NYC and upstate too, where creches and menorahs can be found in many public squares.
    Lileks’ entire rant came down to the fact that he “felt” that some salespeople looked at him funny when he wished them Merry Christmas. What a totally bogus complaint. Which makes me happy, because I heart Christmas. This Jew wouldn’t be happy in December w/out it.

  15. Hubris Avatar
    Hubris

    Diane,
    The statement from Lileks isn’t false; the page that lists all the stamps together is as he describes. Yes, the press release you cites talks about Christmas and Christianity, but that doesn’t make Lileks’ statement untrue.
    Leaving the underlying debate aside for a moment, let me join the chorus on the assessment of Lileks versus Wolcott. A true spanking.

  16. Diane Ezer Avatar
    Diane Ezer

    The statement from Lileks isn’t false; the page that lists all the stamps together is as he describes.
    Since I haven’t seen the page I have no idea what you are talking about. Can you supply URL, please?
    The statement that the USPS doesn’t issue a Christmas stamp is simply false.
    Whether Lileks beat Jarvis is a value judgement but I can’t say that someone who misstates facts sloppily won anything.
    There’s no war against Christmas, and that IS a fact. Christmas is probably the most supported holiday in the history of the world. It supportec by popular culture and by government decree. Lighten up.
    (pun intended)

  17. Hubris Avatar
    Hubris

    Diane,
    It was mentioned in a related thread here so I (unfairly) assumed everyone had seen it. Here is the URL.
    You say in your latest comment:
    The statement that the USPS doesn’t issue a Christmas stamp is simply false.
    That isn’t what Lileks said, where you accused him of a falsehood. You provided this Lileks quote:
    the Post Office’s web page of seasonal stamps named Kwanzaa, twice; ditto Hanukkah. Fine! Great! Who cares? But it called the Christmas
    stamp “Holiday Traditional.” I thought this was . . . unusual.”
    Then you said:
    But this is simply false. Please see:
    As my (tardily supplied) URL for the webpage of seasonal stamps shows, Lileks’ statement was not false. While the web page you provided linking to USPS press releases is salient to the general issue, it in no way disproves Lileks’ statement.
    …but I can’t say that someone who misstates facts sloppily won anything.

    As for that general premise, I absolutely agree!

  18. Hubris Avatar
    Hubris

    Almost forgot,
    Lighten up.
    I don’t think I’m taking it too seriously.

  19. Paul Berra Avatar
    Paul Berra

    Wolcott is far smarter than Lileks, and a much better writer.

  20. Hubris Avatar
    Hubris

    Is not.

  21. h0mi Avatar
    h0mi

    Wolcott is far smarter than Lileks, and a much better writer.

    Shame these “superior” talents haven’t been used much on his blog. I guess he’s too busy rooting for Gaia to slam another hurricaine into Florida.

  22. jeremy in NYC Avatar
    jeremy in NYC

    Hubris, I have to give you credit: anyone who can take a religious controversy and generate a comments thread about which superhero can drink the other udner the table – well, that’s impressive (plus it says something about who posts comments on the internet, but that’s another issue).

  23. Hubris Avatar
    Hubris

    jeremy,
    I’ll take whatever shred of credit I can get, no matter how dubious. ;)