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Americans like sex

69 comments on Americans like sex

Americans like sex

: This is getting ridiculous. No, it got ridiculous months ago. Now it’s getting stupid. The latest in the prudes’ war in America: A supposed flood of complaints to ABC for a joke that showed absolutely nothing naughty before a football game: a star of Desperate Housewives drops her towel and hugs a football player. Flood? I wouldn’t believe it. Look at my reporting on the supposed flood that came in complaining about Married by America: a flood of three. But still, the Today show this morning talks about the flood and tsk-tsks when they should be saying: What the F? What’s so wrong with that? As Joe Territo says: “Can’t we have a little sex with our violence?”

I’m going to start a site that allows all us sane, normal, red-blooded Americans send thank-you notes to the networks — and the FCC — every time there’s a hint of sex or colorful language on broadcast.

Thank you, ABC, for showing a little naked back. We like pretty women. We like sex. We’re male. We’re American.

Thank you, Pitt player, for getting so excited you couldn’t help yourself and you said the F word. It’s nice to see someone excited about something these days. Some for you, Bono.

Thank you, Steven Spielberg, for making soldiers human and letting them speak like real Americans. We need more honesty.

And as for your prudes who are making it your lifes’ work complaining and getting stupid ass media to talk about it: Get a life.

: If anybody can find a Torrent of the ABC promo, please put a link in the comments. It couldn’t be tamer.

IT’S A JOKE, FOLKS!

We’re at risk of outlawing a sense of humor in this country just to satisfy a tiny band of prudes, prigs, and religious nutjobs.

: Tom Biro found the end of it here. Tom just sent me a better link here. Watch and judge for yourself.

69 responses to “Americans like sex”

  1. Penschool Avatar
    Penschool

    Perhaps some of the MNF outrage is the (still) latent racist fear of a white woman with a black man.

  2. Penschool Avatar
    Penschool

    Oh, BTW, this statement isn’t true for all viewers: “We like pretty women. We like sex. We’re male. We’re American.”

  3. Brett Avatar
    Brett

    Wait a minute… Jeff, you’re wrong on this.
    It’s Monday Night Football, fer chrissakes. I have an expectation of the maturity content of this show based on years of viewing it – and the maturity content I expect is negligible. I expect to watch a football game, and my 7-year-old will be watching it with me because he loves football.
    I don’t let my 7-year-old watch Desperate Housewives because it has a high maturity content. Absolutely inappropriate for him.
    To use your parlance, I expect TV to be transparent. I want commercials that are a maturity content match to the show I’m watching (they aren’t, usually) and I expect the networks to telegraph to me the maturity content of the show.
    Otherwise, I’ll just shut it off, which is what I’ll do with Monday Night Football from now on because I can’t trust ABC to get it right for the 7-year-olds who want to view it.
    As long as these expectations are telegraphed, I have no problem with what’s on TV (saying “f*ck” on TV, sex, whatever). But as a parent, I need these expectations telegraphed so that I can choose appropriate viewing for my kids. That’s just responsible. While I’m watching with my kids what I expect to be age-neutral content, I don’t want to have to change the channel for 30 seconds to spare my son the dropped-towel exposure. There wasn’t supposed to be dropped-towel exposure. If my family wanted that with our sports, we’d watch wrestling.
    Now, I’m not planning to write ABC about this. I simply won’t watch Monday Night Football in the future. But it’s wrong for you to suggest that limiting my 7-year-old son’s exposure to sex on TV is a prudish act.
    You’re carrying this too far. Or maybe your son is now old enough for this not to seem obvious to you. But you should instead be pushing for transparency in content expectations, instead of no-holds-barred content for all TV.

  4. Brian Baute Avatar
    Brian Baute

    What bothers me more than the titilation is the disappearing line between entertainment and promotion. The most egregious example of this was Fox during the World Series when Chris Myers (the in-the-stands commentator and interviewer) conducted a mock interview with “Leon” from the Budweiser commercials. “Leon” was in character, and Myers interviewed him as if he were a real person, just as he interviews managers, players, etc. It’s insulting to my intelligence. The TiVo-ization of television will require new advertising strategies, but content providers need to be very careful lest they generate a lot of blowback from viewers.

  5. Jeff Brokaw Avatar
    Jeff Brokaw

    Mr. Jarvis, you’re starting to sound like a lunatic. And Brett is exactly right above. Kids need to be able to hold on to their innocence longer, not have it taken from them at ever younger ages.

  6. Steve Rhodes Avatar
    Steve Rhodes

    Yeah, I object to the promotion of another ABC program, but that is a battle that was lost long ago.
    The new ending of Eminem’s Mosh video has both an anti-FCC and pro-first ammendment message.

  7. carsonfire Avatar
    carsonfire

    I’ve finally come around: let’s abolish the FCC. Let the networks go all out in their effort to out-HBO HBO.
    Result: millions of American families, who now have the option of subscribing to specialized cable/satellite channels that better cater to their needs, will most likely be offered technology by some enterprising soul to selectively block out irresponsible network hodge-podge programming altogether. Having finally and irrevocably ticked off the prime consumer of their product, network ratings will plummet faster than ever.
    We will then be spared all of this false “freedom of speech” handwringing. This is about a product, and specifically a product that keeps misfiring. Families, not single swingers, are the networks’ prime consumers, and they do not want Playboy channels A, B, and C piped directly into their homes against their will.

  8. Steve Rhodes Avatar
    Steve Rhodes

    Also, when I was a kid I wouldn’t have even paid attention to the intro. I just would have been interested in the football (if the Vikings had been playing).
    Adults don’t give kids enough credit. They exist in a media soup and do a pretty good job of navigating it considering how little media literacy there is in US schools.
    Plus they see more flesh in the ads for bras in many Sunday papers. And there also are these people at football games called cheerleaders 7-year-olds have been seeing at least since I was 7.

  9. Jeff Brokaw Avatar
    Jeff Brokaw

    I should clarify. I actually have no problem whatsoever with profanity on TV during an unedited broadcast of Saving Private Ryan. But the other examples are ridiculous.

  10. Tom Avatar
    Tom

    Jeff,
    I thought the same thing when speaking with Joe via IM – it’s like the walls are falling down around *some* people, most of whom I find aren’t in agreement with the clampdown or concerns. I don’t know when a ‘lightswitch’ of sorts was flipped – if it even was, but it’s curious to see how our country is moving here.
    From my perspective in covering the media, I’m fascinated with the inability of NBC to answer questions about putting a 5 second delay on the vaunted Notre Dame games on Saturdays after they dropped the hammer on NASCAR for Dale Earnhardt Jr. saying ‘shit’ in an interview. It just shows hypocrisy of these stations in a way.

  11. Eric Avatar
    Eric

    “What bothers me more than the titilation is the disappearing line between entertainment and promotion.”
    Ditto. My first thought on watching the scene was, “How f***ing lame can they get?”. And then they added insult to injury by bringing George Lopez up to the announcer’s booth during the game so he could crack lame one-liners about Latinos. I couldn’t care less about the partial nudity. But the fact that I can’t even watch the Eagles play without being flooded with in-broadcast promotions for third-rate sitcoms annoys me considerably. Almost as annoying as the moving ads that you’re forced to put up with when taking the PATH train tunnel between Manhattan and Jersey City.

  12. Dave Martin Avatar
    Dave Martin

    The ABC promo team got exactly what they wanted, 24 hours of cheap buzz at the expense of an apology. The, again, “shocked” NFL will likely begin to demand and exercise more editorial control – any/all content associated with “their” broadcast. The issue here is not content but context. ABC clearing the show at 6pm Pacific encourages a parent or two to complain with the “I had to explain it to my kid” argument – real or not. Message to network execs – Don’t mess with the few remaining “broadcast” shows, the audience expectation does not include adult themes. Double secret probation for the ABC execs who signed off on a clever cross promo broadcast at exactly the wrong time.

  13. Jim Avatar
    Jim

    Jeff, your rant about how prudish some people are is off target. Mature adult content is sorely lacking in most of our so-called entertainment. Instead, we are force-fed frat boy “isn’t that hilarous” crap in unexpected places such as intro’s to MNF and halftimes of Super Bowls. Networks should get a clue. There is a time for frat boy humor, serious mature adult content,and using profanity. There should also be times when we don’t have it forced on us at unexpected and innapropriate times. It is done just to continually push the envelope to see how far it can be taken.

  14. Tom Avatar
    Tom

    Know what, if people are going to complain about the dialogue and “dropping of the towel” by Nicollette Sheridan on MNF, then I want to see the SAME amount of energy and complaint about EVERY SINGLE daytime soap opera, on when kids are awake and home from school. And that’s my final answer.

  15. Steve Garfield Avatar
    Steve Garfield

    The local morning radio show entertainment report said something to the effect of, “there was a flood of complaints.”
    Upon hearing that I thought to myself, “oh, he means that they got three calls.”

  16. Robert Avatar
    Robert

    Never underestimate the ability of the media (and some of your own readers, to judge from the above comments) to do a lot of tongue-clicking and eye-rolling as they pretend to be shocked over – in this case – nothing more shocking than a bare back. For all the noise this has generated, I’ll bet this gets even fewer complaints to the FCC than Married by America..
    Which brings me to my suggstion: If it only takes three complaints to generate the biggest fine in FCC history, why not put some pressure on them from the other end? I’d love to see a few concerned media outlets like yourself generate some kind of petition or complaint telling the FCC that most Americans still have an interest in preserving freedom of expression, that we can decide for ourselves whether we or our children are mature enough to handle “Saving Private Ryan”, nude backs or Bono using language that wouldn’t even make the Vice-President blush. I realise that we’re dealing with a government so backwards that they put clothes on naked statues, but I’m trying to remain optimistic.

  17. Brett Avatar
    Brett

    You know, Jeff, I have a hard time reconciling your quixotic rants on campaign mud and your willy-nilly endorsement of racy/mature content on TV and radio.
    If you’re going to embrace free speech, then at least embrace all of it for the sake of consistency.

  18. Bo Avatar
    Bo

    I agree with Jeff. Why is there no one in the media saying how crazy this is? I guess I have always thought of Monday night football as an adult type program. When i was a kid i was never allowed to stay up late enough to watch much of it anyway.
    Here is a good question: Would writing letters to complain about complaints do anything? I would think that the networks are worried about their behinds and therefore will have to appease the minority that is offended. Why they can’t change the channel is beyond me. They instead need to take anything passionate and fun out of television. Just sad.

  19. Greg Avatar
    Greg

    I agree with Brett’s comment, and I’m saying this as a single 24-year-old in a metro area with no love for the FCC’s ambiguous fine triggers. And unlike you, I have seen the promo, which was actually quite lame in addition to being a poor choice for a 9 p.m. broadcast. It would have been perfectly fine on one of FX’s gritty dramas. And it wasn’t just a naked back and a “hug” – it was more of a jumping-on-you-to-screw move. So please, Jeff, analyze these different situations with a bit more nuance before you decide it’s indicative of another 3-person tyranny of the decent.

  20. Eileen Avatar
    Eileen

    ABC received complaints from viewers as well as the NFL. Are they a bunch of prudes, too? No, they know they’ll experience backlash from many (as expressed by Brett) who will opt out of watching games with their kids in order to protect them from unexpected and age inappropriate content. It will hit their bottom line.
    I don’t agree with you here, Jeff. It appears you think there should be NO boundaries on MSM at all. Just have at it? I see loose cannons blowing all over the networks these days. And although I’m not a religious person (or a ‘religious nutjob’ as you said below – an offensive term to begin with) or a parent, I do see the impact of our ‘media soup’ on my friends’ kids.
    I’ve watched 9 and 10 year old girls trying to walk, talk, dress and be sexy like their female ‘role models’ Britney et. al. What about the impact of other media soup on events like Columbine? Or the fact that little kids are having sex at ever earlier ages?
    If, as I gather, you don’t believe there should be an FCC regulating content of any kind, do you believe MSM should do a better job of setting its own boundaries? Any boundaries at all? I keep hearing no holds barred from you in these posts.
    I see the networks doing pretty much Anything these days in a desperate – you can smell the fear – effort to keep their viewers from deserting to cable, satellite, etc. The same applies to their news rooms. Trash begets trash. Witness our decay.

  21. Razzen Avatar
    Razzen

    Heavens forfend that viewers should express their disconcent with certain aspects of a program to its producers. Part of living in a consumer market, Jeff (and you should know this), is that producers of entertainment media need to be mindful of their audience’s tastes lest they lose business. And not all of us have the same tastes as you.
    And therein lies the rub: sometimes I get the feeling that you just want to thrust your own tastes upon the rest of us. Sounds awfully similar to those “religious nutjobs” eh? It’s like Eugene Volokh observed yesterday: we only object to the imposition of values (religious or otherwise) as law when they are values with which we disagree.

  22. Angelos Avatar
    Angelos

    An excellent editorial on this “scandal.”
    Jeff, I’m with you all the way against the FCC, but I do have to agree with some of the commenters her that this was a bad choice. A west coast dad sitting down with his kid after dinner doesn’t need to see that garbage at 6pm.
    The people at the networks, can they REALLY be this stupid? Never mind, rhetorical question.

  23. jackson Avatar
    jackson

    Sex is so horrible of a thing for kids to be exposed to? C’mon Brett, I think you just want to avoid the questions your kid may ask you. It’s just plain rediculous, the prudity in this country has always confounded me, particularly when put in perspective with the billions of dollars a year that the pornography industry in this country rakes in. I think if we dealt wit sex more openly with our kids, we would have less perverts and porn sites.

  24. Penschool Avatar
    Penschool

    Oh, it was a JOKE! In that case, did you hear the one about the ni@ger, the k#ke and the fa&got….

  25. Tom Avatar
    Tom

    Eileen,
    I am *sure* ABC received complaints, and believe the FCC has received a few as well – and the NFL, too. Unfortunately, contrary to what the NFL’s statement on Tuesday alluded to, they ABSOLUTELY had to know about this video. They don’t let anyone use their likenesses, logos, locker rooms, anything for random videos – including when a network who has broadcast rights does so. Know why NFL players who are doing endorsement commercials wear jerseys and uniforms that don’t have logos on them? Because those companies aren’t official NFL sponsors of this that or the other thing and can’t get rights to do so. The NFL is all over using their marks for anything, and I can’t believe they weren’t aware of this beforehand – or at least before it ran on Monday.

  26. Mark Wade Avatar
    Mark Wade

    I have to disagree with you on this one. Although my son and I aren’t MNF watchers (yet, he’s 6 and we’re in the Eastern time zone), I do object to the promo. Is it FCC objectionable and deserving of fines? Of course not. It was a joke, everyone should relax. And it was in the evening, after all.
    However, it does pile onto the advertising morass that we have to deal with during football games. How many boner pill ads and violent movie and television ads do we need? Do we need a violent promo for “Lost” (or CSI for you CBS SEC fans)in the middle of college football on a Saturday afternoon? I’d like to be able to watch U of M and OSU with my son this Saturday without jumping for the remote every six minutes.

  27. Brett Avatar
    Brett

    Jackson,
    You couldn’t have picked a more erroneous example than to choose me as the dad who doesn’t want to talk sex with his kids.
    I’m the father of five kids, ages 5 to 17. I’ve explained sex in very open form to the three older kids. They’re teenagers. We’ve had several discussions in various stages as they’ve grown up.
    With my kids, I wait until they express an interest in the subject and then discuss it from there. Or, I wait for teachable moments.
    The younger two (ages 5 and 7) haven’t had much discussion with me about it, except to explain in general how babies come to be. We’re not shy about such things at my home. Nice try.
    Explaining sex to them in the format of a loving relationship is not an embarrassment. That’s a good thing.
    Explaining sex to them in the format of a woman in football locker room is simply wrong.
    You have kids? If so, how old? And do you plan to use TV shows like Desperate Housewives to introduce them to the many facets of sex?

  28. Eileen Avatar
    Eileen

    Tom, I didn’t watch the game so I didn’t see the setting of the latest fluff. I’m sure you’re right about the NFL and know a lot more about it than I do. I hate football and choose not to have it in my life except for Super Bowl Sunday. So I guess the article I read which reported about the NFL’s formally lodged complaint to ABC is bullshit, too. Gotta protect those bottom lines.

  29. Tom Avatar
    Tom

    Hey, I could absolutely be wrong, as I have heard the same about the NFL filing a complaint. But they’re very protective, and it would truly surprise me if they didn’t know about it.
    That being said, you can view the video here at the Dallas Morning News – via Fark.

  30. Terry Heaton Avatar
    Terry Heaton

    “License they mean when they cry Liberty!” — Milton

  31. Eric Avatar
    Eric

    Terry, Milton was a capital-p Puritan. What’s next, quoting Oliver Cromwell?

  32. Neil Avatar
    Neil

    After all of this discussion and hype, I now, really want to see the promo.

  33. jackson Avatar
    jackson

    Brett,
    At the risk of boring Jeff’s audience with this sidebar, as you may have guessed I do not have children. I also don’t watch television, last year I gave it up, I couldn’t find anything worth watching, except football, and now I watch that at the bar. I commend your parenting, apologise for insinuating the contrary, can we now be friends and fight the good fight together?

  34. La Avatar
    La

    Jeff:
    I listened to your radio interview this morning on my way in to work on KROQ, and I was appauled to find out what the FCC has been doing, with little or nothing to keep them in check. I was also moved by the point you made regarding the power of the blogger to reach others and be heard. Upon arriving at work, I checked out your blog, and linked yours to ours. Looking forward to reading you regularly!

  35. AEB Avatar
    AEB

    Neil – shouldn’t be a problem, all the news channels and espn sportscenter are showing it every 15 minutes.
    If it’s so bad for MNF, then why is it displayed – uncut – everywhere at all hours of the day. Oh I see – one is news and one is not.
    Fact is, this PROMOTION has worked brillantly for ABC and the apologies were typed up ahead of time most likely.
    I’m not mad at the FCC for this one – they haven’t done anything yet. I’m mad at the news media for playing into ABC’s hand and giving them free 24-7 publicity.

  36. Tom Avatar
    Tom

    AEB – the best is that MNF might do nothing special next week, but they’ll get viewers at the beginning of the game anyway. Let alone what “Desperate” is going to get.

  37. Ken Avatar
    Ken

    “Mr. Jarvis, you’re starting to sound like a lunatic. And Brett is exactly right above. Kids need to be able to hold on to their innocence longer, not have it taken from them at ever younger ages.”
    No, they don’t. Kids do not need to have their innocence preserved. They need to be taught how to be mature, responsible adults, so that they can then strike out on their own without causing long-term damage or injury to themselves or others. Seeing “adult themes” isn’t going to interfere with this process, but an insistence on protecting their “innocence” (which is, after all, a euphemism for “ignorance”) will.

  38. Jessica Avatar
    Jessica

    Amen, Jeff!

  39. John Avatar
    John

    I’m with Eileen on this.
    I’ll take it a step further though; it is not only children who take many of their social cues from TV, all ages do.
    I have never watched the series “Desperate Housewives”, although a question immediately comes to mind. Why or for what are they desperate?
    I watched the clip. I know it was meant to be a joke, and I’m asking for trouble by over-analyzing this, but I will anyway.
    Why was she there?
    Showing off her new tatoo? Seeking a sperm donor? Lost a bet? Working for the opposing team? Unique hobby? Derangement? Self esteem issues?
    Heck if I know.
    What does this say about his level of professionalism, commitment to his team, and priorities?
    Oh my God, I’m starting to sound responsible and old-fashioned!

  40. Bob Avatar
    Bob

    I’m going to start a site that allows all us sane, normal, red-blooded Americans send thank-you notes to the networks — and the FCC — every time there’s a hint of sex or colorful language on broadcast.
    Yes, please, this is the best idea you’ve ever had. I would bookmark it and visit every day.
    And Brett – so the violence is OK, but a woman’s back is wickedness inherant? Ugh. Pleeeeeeze.
    YES, not allowing your son to see a woman’s back is a prudish act. A very, VERY prudish and sad act, indeed.

  41. Kyle Maxwell Avatar
    Kyle Maxwell

    I saw the promo. Now I should state that I’m Christian, and a father of a little girl, and fairly conservative in my own personal values. That said, I firmly believe in not imposing my values on others (as I wouldn’t want someone else to impose theirs on me). So I don’t object to the ABC promo on moral grounds — it’s not my place to determine what they should show based on whether or not it’s in line with my moral norms. My wife loves Desperate Housewives anyway, just as I love MNF. The commercial didn’t offend me, though other things do (and that’s when I exercise control over the channel or power buttons).
    That said, I do object to it just on the grounds that it was dumb. It didn’t get me ready for the game, it didn’t make me any more likely to watch Desperate Housewives. I did watch the first few episodes to see what the hubbub was about, and the commercial was about on par with the show. Athlete reciting his lines, notebook-paper-faced lady trying to seduce him, followed by two other women trying to look hip and not quite so “girly” (hey! I’m drinking a beer and watching MNF! Ain’t I cool?) Waste of time, along with the once-kinda-cool-but-now-way-too-dated Hank Williams Jr. intro.
    Plus I’m a Cowboys fan so TO was not exactly my cup of tea. The game just got worse from there, too…

  42. Jim Avatar
    Jim

    And as for your prudes who are making it your lifes’ work complaining and getting stupid ass media to talk about it: Get a life.
    No, Jeff the Q: ‘Get a life’ needs an answer. When did these adults, who grew up in our same time frame lose there life the first time around. And why did it happen? Why did they become this way? Was it their parents fault? A full report should be undertaken by a neutral third party that has had no contact with their (the prudes) former lives.

  43. Jeff Jarvis Avatar
    Jeff Jarvis

    Kyle: Exactly right: Every football fan I’ve talked to said the promo was just plain dumb. That’s the sin. But it’s not against the law…

  44. pete the elder Avatar
    pete the elder

    Jeff, is there any line (apart from legailties like fraud and shouting fire when there is no fire) you are willing to draw on nudity and sex issues like this? If instead of showing a naked woman’s back ABC had instead showed full frontal nudity and penatration during the MNF intro, should the FCC have any say in it? Would you morally object to it personally, but say the networks have a right to show it anyway?
    I do not think you have answered these specific questions before, but maybe you did and I missed it.

  45. mary Avatar
    mary

    I don’t know why the FCC doesn’t do something about this kind of indecency – on display, where children can see it!
    Have you ever watched the Discovery Channel? Horny hippos, lions chomping on zebra bones – it’s nonstop sex and violence. It’s almost as if that kind of thing is an unavoidable part of life or something…

  46. Eric Avatar
    Eric

    “If instead of showing a naked woman’s back ABC had instead showed full frontal nudity and penatration during the MNF intro, should the FCC have any say in it?”
    If such a thing happened, the network in questions would lose millions of viewers, and a fairly large number of advertisers, as a result. Which is why it’ll never happen, at least not intentionally.
    Just ask yourself why the content TNT, ESPN, Bravo et al. during daytime and primetime hours is generally no worse than that of the broadcast networks, even though they’re not under the jurisdiction of the FCC’s content commissars. The market’s perfectly capable of handling this issue. Sadly, Powell only seems to care about free markets when it comes to the freedom of local phone companies to stifle innovation – the freedom of broadcasters and consumers to air and watch what they want is a whole different matter.

  47. Bob Avatar
    Bob

    “If instead of showing a naked woman’s back ABC had instead showed full frontal nudity and penatration during the MNF intro, should the FCC have any say in it?”
    Hmm, that’s really sensible – the slippery slope argument. Maybe we shouldn’t see women’s legs below the knee? Maybe she should’ve been wearing a bhurka instead of a towel? (Of course, she should be killed for entering the men’s locker room in the first place. Sorry. First things first.)

  48. pete the elder Avatar
    pete the elder

    Eric and Bob neither of you answer the question so I will ask it again. It is a yes or no question so it should not be hard to answer:
    If instead of showing a naked woman’s back ABC had instead showed full frontal nudity and penatration during the MNF intro, should the FCC have any say in it?
    Eric, if the market is capable of handling this issue then you do not object to the FCC regulating it as well? And I am not convinced that they would lose that much of an audiance. You can only geuss they would. They may even gain market share. What is stopping a struggling network like the WB from showing explicit sex if the FCC is not there to stop them? Other countries with no FCC censors have broadcast TV stations and that show much more explicit sex than is seen on network TV in the US and some pay channels in the US do show explcit sex and they do not seem to be hurting financially because of it. If they were hurting financially they would probably stop, but there is clearly a demand for explicit sex on TV. Is the demand large enough to risk alienating a large portion of the network’s audience? I think the MNF example (along with many others) shows there is a network exec somewhere out there willing to take that risk if they are allowed to by the FCC.
    I can probably be convinced that the FCC should allow explicit sex on TV. Denying that explicit sex on TV is a reasonably likely possibilty if the FCC is not allowed to regulate content is naive.

  49. Bob Avatar
    Bob

    Pete, the FCC would *really* be flooded with complaints in that example, so given the way the FCC works, of course, they’d have to respond.
    However, a woman’s back DOES NOT EQUAL penetration. You’re making a ludicrous appples and oranges comparison.
    And you’re using the sort of reasoning that convinces Mullah’s that, hey, we’d probably be all better of if woman just, you, know, went ahead and covered it all up.
    Is the demand large enough to risk alienating a large portion of the network’s audience
    The portion offended is verifiably NOT large. It’s a handful of ultaconservatives complaining over and over again. These are systematized complaints and these people have their fingers hovering over the “send” button all the time.
    Even “hundreds” of complaints represents a statistically insignificant sampling of the US viewing population. We’re talking about far less than ONE percent complaining in any of these cases – even in the case of Janet Jackson.
    And that is what makes the actions of the FCC deplorable.

  50. Scott Chaffin Avatar
    Scott Chaffin

    Slippery slope, Bob? What’s the burqa BS, if not a slippery slope on the other side of the hill? I’ve yet to see Jarvis or any of you other 1A shouters draw any lines whatsoever.
    So, as you say, first things first — are there any? You put a line in the sand, since you don’t like the ones others are drawing.

  51. Eric Avatar
    Eric

    “If instead of showing a naked woman’s back ABC had instead showed full frontal nudity and penatration during the MNF intro, should the FCC have any say in it?”
    No.
    “Eric, if the market is capable of handling this issue then you do not object to the FCC regulating it as well?”
    That’s a non sequitir. I was simply stating what would likely transpire if the FCC stayed out of the picture. My personal view is that, regardless of what the market did, any social harm done from showing explicit content on TV is miniscule compared to the social harm that comes from trampling on the 1st Amendment in the manner that the FCC currently does. Especially since people are quite free to change the channel.
    I’m kind of open to the idea of the government maintaining a ratings system for TV content, but not placing restrictions on the content itself. Just as I don’t mind the FDA mandating that food items come with nutrition labels, but would object to them banning items in the name of protecting the nation’s health.
    “And I am not convinced that they would lose that much of an audiance. You can only geuss they would.”
    So why haven’t ESPN, TNT, Comedy Central, etc. done it during daytime or primetime hours? Again, the FCC doesn’t have a say about what they air.

  52. pete the elder Avatar
    pete the elder

    Bob, I am not really comparing the two. I am not necessarily opposed to allowing the networks to show explicit sex. And Bob it sounds like you just argued against Eric’s market based guarantees that explicit sex will never happen if the network’s will lose less than one percent of their audiance.
    Jeff has repeatedly said that he does not think the FCC should regulate content based on whether people are offended by it. Does that include explicit sex? He has not answered the question from waht I have read on his blog. Explicit sex on TV will likely be an (partly at least) unintended consequence if the FCC is not allowed to regulate based on any content as Jeff has argued for in the past repeatedly. Just as complaints and fines over some shows that are not very objectionable to most people are an (partly at least) unintended consequence of how the FCC now regulates content.
    If I was an executive at a stuggling network and the FCC was not there to stop me, I would consider putting on whatever would get the highest ratings. Why is this so hard to imagine?

  53. Kat Avatar
    Kat

    I’m sure most 7 or 8 year olds would understand the joke!! Either would anyone who doesn’t watch Soaps like Desperate Housewives. I certainly wouldn’t know it was a joke because I’ve never watched that show. Piss poor excuse saying it was a joke.

  54. Michael Avatar
    Michael

    OMG, I’m agreeing with Kat. Yes, saying its a joke is a horrible excuse. Reminds me of the locker room in my dad’s country club where they excuse racist dialogue as “just kidding around.” Jokes, whether funny or not, still have impact, and can still offend.

  55. Amy Avatar
    Amy

    Jeez Jeff, now I’ve seen it, all I can do is laugh. I totally agree with you. Reading all this stuff about the FCC lately had me thinking they’re being ridiculous, but getting uptight about this ad takes it to a whole new level. I gotta laugh, or I’d cry. I can’t believe these prudish nipple-fearing self-righteous people can take themselves seriously.
    You’re right, it’s a joke! The woman is so cheesy. It’s a parody, man. And the “offending” clip is followed by two women agreeing just how shallow she is. You people worried that your kids are gonna be corrupted by some lame innuendo, a towel on the floor, and a back…get some perspective! The message a kid would take away from that ad – if he/she even noticed it – is that verbalised by the two ladies on the sofa, deriding the “desperate” woman. Any innocent kid would not understand the innuendo, and any kid that did is already wise to “the facts of life”.
    What kind of damage do you concerned parents really think this is gonna do? There are way more serious concerns than this in modern life. As Joe Territo hints, violence on TV is far more troubling. And kids that are shielded from the sexual realities of life to this extent will be far more vulnerable in a few years than those with a healthy exposure.
    And the FCC…now they sanction not just nudity, but the suggestion of nudity! Where does it end?
    And ABC are spineless and self-defeating for apologising instead of sticking up for themselves. It’s as if there is a climate of fear in the media…they’re all treading on eggshells, terrified of being called biased, or immoral, and are thus being held hostage by a vociferous few. Starts to remind one of McCarthyism…SEX, the new enemy within!
    Keep up the good work Jeff.

  56. John Avatar
    John

    Amy,
    Think about what you just said in this context.
    I am in the process of changing jobs, and my hope to be new employer just provided me with a behavior manual for new hires.
    Apparently, sexuality has become a mine field in the workplace. I’m aware that this has been the case for some time, but I’ve never had things spelled out quite this explicitly.
    What I’m left with is this: The material, joke or not, included in the aforementioned broadcast promo, if discussed in my new workplace, could be grounds for a sexual harrassment suit against my employer, and grounds for my dismissal.

  57. Eric Avatar
    Eric

    “The material, joke or not, included in the aforementioned broadcast promo, if discussed in my new workplace, could be grounds for a sexual harrassment suit against my employer, and grounds for my dismissal.”
    I’m not surprised to hear that. But all this means is that modern-day sexual harrassment laws (or at least the interpretation of them) have become as disgraceful as the FCC, and that the left can be as prudish, nannyish, and full of unjustified moral self-righteousness as the right.

  58. steve talbert Avatar
    steve talbert

    You voted for Bush-Cheney and you get to live with your “mandate”. Happy Rapture.

  59. Amy Avatar
    Amy

    Hang on a second. Sexual harrassment laws protect people from ACTUAL harrasment, not watching an acted, humorous, scenario that involves no serious harrasment.
    John, what is or is not illegal in your workplace (and there may be some too strictly interpreted PC rules there) is absolutely irrelevant to the FCC. This isn’t about not airing depictions of sexual harrassment, it’s about whether mild nudity (or non-nudity in this case) and suggestion, between CONSENTING ADULTS should be on the TV. These are two separate issues, and it is not helpful to the debate to confuse them.

  60. Bob Avatar
    Bob

    Scott, I can see how you interpreted my bhurka remark, but you miss my point: I’m not arguing that there’s a slippery slope. I don’t believe that women are going to be wearing bhurkas in the United States (you’re mistaking me with the radical left.). I mean, we’ve be prudish and puritanical in this country, but we’ve always allowed women to show their *faces* if not their arms, their legs, their knees, and their hair.
    No, I’m partly jesting, but I’m mainly arguing that in principle, saying we shouldn’t see naked woman’s back because it’ll lead to full intercourse on TV is the same kind of thinking that says we shouldn’t see a woman’s body because it’ll lead to “sin”–so let’s put her in a bhurka.
    Where would I draw the line? I do say let the market decide largely, too. And one percent is not the market deciding. One percent is the FCC caving into a moralistic minority (or possibly *representing a moralistic minority, if M. Powell’s nanny-like remarks today are any indication). I have no problem personally with limiting the viewing of sexual acts on primetime TV and I suspect the majority of Americans don’t either, so for that reason alone, I don’t buy that we’re going to have 200 channels of non-stop primetime orgy action any time soon.
    On the other hand, I turned on HBO last night at about 11:20 and saw one woman thrusting a dildo into another woman. (I was quite surprised. But I also didn’t have any kids by my side, so, er, let’s just say, it didn’t bother me.) I didn’t hear any complaints about that depiction since it’s on HBO, late at night. The market doesn’t seem to mind.
    And the mass of Americans don’t mind seeing a naked woman’s back on TV and they don’t mind seeing all manner of adultery being portrayed on the rubbishy daytime TV shows and people eating worms of Fear Factor and wrestlers breaking chairs over each other’s heads either.
    We can certainly argue that there’s trash on TV and that people have the right to complain or change the channel or whatever. And we can certainly argue whether seeing a woman’s naked back should present a problem to anyone or not: and I don’t think it does. Was the ad tasteless, sure? But it wasn’t tasteless because of the nudity, it was tasteless because of the context. But does the tastelessness rise to the level of damaging a child’s psyche or turning him or her into a pervert? I think not. In fact, I agree with the poster above who says it’s our repression of sexuality that leads to problems. And, man, in this example, the sexuality is about as modest as it gets. I mean, come on. That’s nothing you couldn’t see on beaches across the world.

  61. John Avatar
    John

    Amy,
    My understanding is that sexual harrassment is in the eye of the beholder, so to speak.
    It could potentially be any sexual material which is perceived as disturbing by the alleged victim.
    In this context, applying the workplace test, didn’t the broadcaster place itself in a position to have harrassed those viewers who thought they would be watching only a football game, but received unwelcome sexual content without warning?
    This is not only about showing a woman’s back; that characterization is either disingenuous or naive.
    Although I suppose we could always tell the kids that she was just asking for a naked piggyback ride.
    I don’t have kids, but that’s probably the best I would come up with on the fly.
    My intent was not to stray too far from the original topic, but to add something that struck me as funny and also highlights some of the hypocrisy surrounding these issues.

  62. Steve Rhodes Avatar
    Steve Rhodes

    Pete, NYPD Blue showed breasts briefly for years towards the very end of the program. Because of the FCC crackdown, their final season will be breastless.
    The networks didn’t go beyond that despite the pressure of the freedom HBO has.
    Even if there weren’t any FCC regulation (which isn’t going to happen) you wouldn’t see what you describe if only because there would be no advertisers.

  63. Scott Chaffin Avatar
    Scott Chaffin

    Bob, I’m not trying to imply that you’re a radical leftie or that we shouldn’t see naked backs of ladies (or even their fronts.) I’m just saying that the slippery slope argument (or complaint) goes both ways.
    Me, I’m all for the market, too. In a market-based system, everyone tuning in would know that ABC is the Titty Network, and CBS is, I don’t know, the No-Titty Network. This I’ve got zero problem with.
    What I have a problem with is the untelegraphed tawdriness that showed up Monday night. It’s not what’s her name’s back that’s a problem. It’s that I’m theoretically tuning in at that time to see a football game, maybe get some Madden/Michaels analysis, get the formerly-fun Hank, Jr. song, and then some football. Instead I get a ‘screw me now, big guy!’ strip-tease joke. Cheap, coarse, & borderline adult content. What I don’t want to do is have to explain to a 10 year-old boy what a naked lady is doing in the Eagles locker room before a game, and why Terrell Owens might be induced to dump his team for an ovulating divorcee. That’s the real context and the real problem, not the nekkid back, as some people are saying. Look, if we’re gonna get strip-tease before every game kicks off, I’m fine with that…just let me know (and I guess, now, they kind of have.)
    PS I’m somewhat shocked that no one has bitched about the hypocrisy of people NOT complaining about jiggly cheerleader shots.

  64. Bob Avatar
    Bob

    I see your point, Scott and enjoyed reading your post (“why Terrell Owens might be induced to dump his team for an ovulating divorcee”). And I admit too that I don’t have kids. I just figure in this *particular* case, either the kids wouldn’t really get it or ask a question anyway, but if they did, an answer like “I guess she must really like that man” covers a multitude of “sins.” I think the integral difference we have is that although I might agree that the ad were cheesey and silly and undignified, it’s not really “wrong.”

  65. Scott Chaffin Avatar
    Scott Chaffin

    Last comment on this crap: kids “get” naked people, since they spend 95-99% percent of their time in the company of people who are, thankfully, fully clothed. It’s bothersome to have to explain why they aren’t so, in the runup to a football game of all freaking things. Surely that’s not so hard to understand.
    OK, I’m off to perfect my network pitch for a brass pole that rises up behind home plate between half-innings during the World Series. I think I can take this to the hardcourt, too. “Give it up for Incorrigible at the time line, gentlemen — can I get a big ol’ Texas HELL YEAH!”

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