Whose values II

Whose values II

: The NY Times op-ed page today reflected the post I wrote Thursday on the bogus impact of “moral values” on the election as measured by the bogus exit polls (proving only that print punditry has a helluva lead time):

: Gary Langer, head of polling for ABC News, said he fought against including the “moral values” question in the joint exit poll because it was so vague and it was the ultimate mom-and-apple pie question: Who’s against moral values here?

Pre-election polls consistently found that voters were most concerned about three issues: Iraq, the economy and terrorism. When telephone surveys asked an open-ended issues question (impossible on an exit poll), answers that could sensibly be categorized as moral values were in the low single digits. In the exit poll, they drew 22 percent.

Why the jump? One reason is that the phrase means different things to people. Moral values is a grab bag; it may appeal to people who oppose abortion, gay marriage and stem-cell research but, because it’s so broadly defined, it pulls in others as well….

Moral values, moreover, is a loaded phrase, something polls should avoid. (Imagine if “patriotism” were on the list.) It resonates among conservatives and religious Americans. While 22 percent of all voters marked moral values as their top issue, 64 percent of religious conservatives checked it.

: David Brooks, on whom I tend to be binary, writes a very good column on the bull that is “moral values” as an issue.

If you ask an inept question, you get a misleading result.

The reality is that this was a broad victory for the president. Bush did better this year than he did in 2000 in 45 out of the 50 states. He did better in New York, Connecticut and, amazingly, Massachusetts. That’s hardly the Bible Belt. Bush, on the other hand, did not gain significantly in the 11 states with gay marriage referendums.

He won because 53 percent of voters approved of his performance as president. Fifty-eight percent of them trust Bush to fight terrorism. They had roughly equal confidence in Bush and Kerry to handle the economy. Most approved of the decision to go to war in Iraq. Most see it as part of the war on terror.

It’s a simple and clear analysis. He then says, “The fact is that if you think we are safer now, you probably voted for Bush. If you think we are less safe, you probably voted for Kerry.” I disagree there. That assumes that terrorism is the only issue. If it were, he’d be right (and I’d have voted for Bush). But there were many issues and each of us weighed them differently. That’s why all efforts to explain an election over one issue are wrong. So he’s oversimplifying the opposition, slightly. But he’s also right about the opposition oversimplifying the victors:

But the same insularity that caused many liberals to lose touch with the rest of the country now causes them to simplify, misunderstand and condescend to the people who voted for Bush. If you want to understand why Democrats keep losing elections, just listen to some coastal and university town liberals talk about how conformist and intolerant people in Red America are. It makes you wonder: why is it that people who are completely closed-minded talk endlessly about how open-minded they are?

This is why I wrote my post-election peace pledge and my letter to Democrats: Insulting the people who voted for Bush is no way to win the next election.

: Nick Kristof says it’s time for Democrats to be more open and he’s right. He also says our model should be Labor under Tony Blair and he’s way right. He’s way wrong in a minute….

As moderates from the heartland, like Tom Daschle, are picked off by the Republicans, the party’s image risks being defined even more by bicoastal, tree-hugging, gun-banning, French-speaking, Bordeau-sipping, Times-toting liberals, whose solution is to veer left and galvanize the base….

Mobilizing the base would mean nominating Hillary Rodham Clinton in 2008 and losing yet again. (Mrs. Clinton has actually undertaken just the kind of makeover that I’m talking about: in the Senate, she’s been cooperative, mellow and moderate, winning over upstate New Yorkers. She could do the same in the heartland … if she had 50 years.)

So Democrats need to give a more prominent voice to Middle American, wheat-hugging, gun-shooting, Spanish-speaking, beer-guzzling, Bible-toting centrists. (They can tote The Times, too, in a plain brown wrapper.) For a nominee who could lead the Democrats to victory, think of John Edwards, Bill Richardson or Evan Bayh, or anyone who knows the difference between straw and hay.

He’s way wrong in thinking that Edwards, Richardson, or Bayh are the people to re-energize the party. They are dull and safe. They don’t have vision. Clinton (Hillary) is a centrist who has a vision and can energize the party. She’ll piss off the opposite fringe, but that won’t matter.

He also says that the Democrats need to work hard not to be the obstructionist party over the next four years. Again, I agree. I disagree with his particular prescription for how to do that, but that’s all a matter of politics. The moral to the story is the same.

: Finally, Steven Waldman of Beliefnet looks like a bit of a fool quoting the “moral values” poll results as if they mean something, surrounded by those who show how it doesn’t.

: The Democrats must find the path to:

1. Not insult the victors by acting as if they’re all a bunch of right-wing religious nut jobs if they voted for Bush. They are your neighbors.

2. Not obstruct progress in the country by insisting on only attacking the administration instead of finding ways to work with it.

3. Not hold to ideology and become the (small) party of exclusion. I know what that felt like during this election; just because I supported some of what Bush did, I was seen as a disloyal unDemocrat and I swear there were some who would rather have held onto their orthodoxy than get my vote. That’s no way to win elections.

18 responses to “Whose values II”

  1. GCW Avatar

    Jeff, you rock. You’ve been a “city on a hill” during this post-election analysis period. I really hope the Dem crowd listens to you.
    I’ve been quite saddened by the things I read this week at Slate, TalkingPointsMemo, Atrios, Kos, etc.

  2. Mike G Avatar

    Uh, Jeff, Brooks did say “probably.” When you notice that, he’s undoubtedly right. Probably.
    As far as Hillary goes… I have tended to be utterly skeptical of the Hillary coronation process, because I don’t believe in presidents from New York. The press, being based in New York, always is hyping somebody (GiulianiCuomoRockefellerLindsayDewey) as being the inevitable candidate, and usually they don’t even run, let alone win. (The only New York natives to win the presidency in the last 100 years were named Roosevelt. Before that, it was Chester Alan Arthur.) But what it takes to win office in NY is usually doom for winning it nationwide.
    All that said, however, at least Hillary has a spark in her eye, which is more than you can say for a lot of these dull sticks. So who knows. She starts out with probably 40% of the country solidly against her– but as Bush just demonstrated, that’s something you can beat if you can keep your opponent from gaining that next 10%.
    Now here’s what I really want to see in ’08: the Vice Presidential debate between Barack Obama and Bobby Jindal.

  3. Jeff Jarvis Avatar

    Mike: You’re quite right about Brooks’ “probably.” Still, I think that snippet is a simplistic analysis. Still again, I think it’s a good and smart column and I agree with the rest. Beats Kristof’s.

  4. midwesterner Avatar
    midwesterner

    Hillary would be a disaster. She does not play in the heartland. I used to live in NYC/NJ. Trust me when I tell you that you need to live elsewhere in order to really understand. Hillary runs, and the nation will go red, red, red.

  5. Robert McClelland Avatar

    The Dems will take the next election. Why? Because the Anybody But Bush movement that managed to turn out 55 million votes will become the Anybody But a Republican movement and will once again turn out those 55 million votes. On the other side, some undetermined Republican will not be able to generate the same kind of turnout that Bush did.
    And Jeff, you really need to take a good look at the difference between the hate emanating off the two sides. Sure the left hates Bush with a passion, but the right hates liberalism. The left is not going to take up your pledge when the right loathes everything about them.

  6. freddie Avatar

    It is getting tiresome by now to hear the gnashing of teeth that tell us that the “elite” girlie-m,en, intellctuals have no respect for the “heartland” or values of conservative Americans etc. In fact I have found that the Right of center groups andpeople are the ones filled with spite, venom and hate…need I do anything beyond point to talk radio? The sanctimonious right wingers are much worse in badmouthing people and the liberals (no: not Lefties) tend to be forgiving and understanding. Sure: the radical left are wicked. But the radical anything usually is.

  7. Kat Avatar

    Robert–now you guys have one less vote.
    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,137837,00.html

  8. Jim C. Avatar

    I visit a message board which is mostly liberals. In this thread, most of them say that Hilary doesn’t have a chance to even get nominated in 2008! Not likable enough and too strident for the Dems themselves! Too strongly associated with Bill, a target of the right wing, practically a guarantee of another Republican president!
    I (Republican) would have thought she’d be a viable candidate with a good chance at winning. But who am I to contradict Democrats? ;)

  9. PJ Avatar

    The “right direction, wrong direction” question is also misleading. I feel, and I’m sure others do, too, that we are headed in the wrong direction, but I don’t Bush for that, I blame extremists taking over the Democratic Party. Now we have a one-party government, thanks to the left, which is never a good idea.

  10. Strategic Armchair Command Avatar

    Forget about the Christian mob — barely removed from the Dark Ages — who make their judgements based on superstition, paranoia and ignorance — they are a minority and pandering to them is silly.
    A majority of moderate republicans and independents still felt Bush was the stronger leader in the War on Terror and that’s why he got elected.
    Three years from now, when we are still mired in Iraq trying to create a democracy out of an area that was never even a nation-state [at least Japan and Germany were], and at the same time, we are trying to prevent a democracy from emerging because majority voting there will lead to a Shiite republic like Iran, the same people who voted for Bush on the basis of his “strength” and “fortitude” will have had enough empty-headed rhetoric.
    They will be looking for a change, and an intelligent leader with a good plan.

  11. Kat Avatar

    Forget about the muslim mob of whom 90 plus per cent voted for Kerry — barely removed from the Dark Ages — who make their judgements based on superstition, paranoia and ignorance — they are a minority and pandering to them is silly. Sitting back and allowing 25 years of jihad as they murder our citizens is leftist lunacy. Allowing Saddam to play the left like a fiddle for 10 years is buying into the chomsky swill and allowing that islamic idiocy to spread and grow. It took a real man to confront them,not a party lead by the UN, ACLU, and ANSWER and Mooreites. And in 3 years when we are looking for an intelligent leader with a good plan he or she will not be a democrat.

  12. Oliver Avatar

    Your three suggestions would make sense if the opposition did them too. As long as they maintain their jihad, we will too.

  13. Amy Avatar

    Re the comparison with British New Labour, the thing is, even New Labour (which has now lost much of its popular support by moving too far right and appearing to reject social*sm while still professing to be social*st)is way left of the Democratic Party. It’s a joke that Kerry is deemed to be left-wing.
    It would probably be politically expedient to return to Clintonism (without the scandal etc, and not necessarily with Hillary), but if that involves ditching all the principles that matter most, is it really worth it? There’s a fine tightrope to walk between two forms of disaster – going too far off-center to get elected, and going too far right to achieve anything meaningful. Clinton’s presidency was such a wasted opportunity.
    * P.S. I had to put a * instead of an i cuz the comments wouldn’t let me post a word that contained another word that is a brand of pills beginning with c!!

  14. Amy Avatar

    Re the comparison with British New Labour, the thing is, even New Labour (which has now lost much of its popular support by moving too far right and appearing to reject social*sm while still professing to be social*st)is way left of the Democratic Party. It’s a joke that Kerry is deemed to be left-wing.
    It would probably be politically expedient to return to Clintonism (without the scandal etc, and not necessarily with Hillary), but if that involves ditching all the principles that matter most, is it really worth it? There’s a fine tightrope to walk between two forms of disaster – going too far off-center to get elected, and going too far right to achieve anything meaningful. Clinton’s presidency was such a wasted opportunity.
    * P.S. I had to put a * instead of an i cuz the comments wouldn’t let me post a word that contained another word that is a brand of pills beginning with c!!

  15. Old Grouch Avatar
    Old Grouch

    Kat, Robert is a Canadian… he didn’t have any votes to begin with.

  16. Ivan Lenin Avatar

    Three years from now, when we are still mired in Iraq … the same people who voted for Bush on the basis of his “strength” and “fortitude” will have had enough empty-headed rhetoric.
    I share SACom’s scepticism about building a democracy in Iraq, but to dismiss Bush’s effort as just empty-headed rhetoric is rather, uhmm, empty-headed. The results that we’ve seen so far give me plenty reasons to hope that the US involvement in the ME, and the turn that Bush has taken will, in fact, work. It’s way too early to judge, and in any case, trying something is better than doing nothing.
    Sure the left hates Bush with a passion, but the right hates liberalism.
    Many right-wingers I know call themselves liberal. Of course, because I live in New York, my experience is not representative. Still, I doubt most right-wingers hated Kerry, for example. They hated Michael Moore and Sean Penn. They hate celebrities who condescend to them. They hate people who say, “If you disagree with me, it’s because you’re stupid. Let me explain it to you in simple terms”. This is an attitude that you won’t find much on the right. “All those rednecks” are perfectly aware of the world “liberals” live in, they see it on TV every day, and they are perfectly willing to co-exist with it.
    In fact I have found that the Right of center groups andpeople are the ones filled with spite, venom and hate…need I do anything beyond point to talk radio?
    Yes, you do. You need to look at blogs. Look at Glenn Reynolds, James Lileks, and Charles Johnson of LGF. These most visible Republican supporters are quite secular and liberal on many issues. They are the face of the new Right, and on the other side we have Daily Kos. No comparison.
    Talk radio has been there for a while, and the reason for their anger is simple: they are still oustiders in the media world. They are talk radio becaue there is only one FOX channel, and the others won’t have them. So, they are marginalized, and will probably remain that way, because most of us have no interest in demonizing the “liberals” Ann Coulter style – we want to work with rational ones, and the moonbats are hopeless anyway, so why bother getting angry at them?

  17. Greg D Avatar

    I think the claim that the “Defense of Marriage” acts on the ballot didn’t is unproven. None of the comparisons I’ve seen compared battelground states w/ DoM v. battelground w/o (same for non-battleground).
    Both sides did yeoman work on GoTV. Bush got more than 8 million votes more than last time, and Kerry got more than 4 million more. Bush’s increases came all over the country. Where did Kerry’s come?
    Come to think of it, that’s a really interesting question. Did the ABBers actually vote? If so, why did Bush get a higher percantage of the vote in CA, MA, and NY? Did the GOP have significant GoTV efforts in those states, and if so, why?
    So, to get back to the original question, what was Bush’s vote increase in battleground states w/o Dom? What was it in states with? What were Kerry’s increases in those states?
    IMHO, this looks like the subject for an academic paper, from someone who can get access to information from the campaigns re: where they actually put their efforts.

  18. Jim S Avatar

    Sorry, Ivan Lenin, but your argument doesn’t hold water. What is Rush Limbaugh’s audience versus the total of every blog you named? Most right wingers didn’t hate Kerry? You couldn’t prove it by most of the comment areas on blogs or in places like Slate’s the Fray. Can you say Swift Boat Veterans For Truth? It takes real hatred to accuse a man of faking his own medal qualifications without a shred of evidence when the people truly closest to any action he was in with only one exception backed him completely. And most right wingers backed them all the way. There was real venom and hatred in huge numbers of posts I read. And the man who runs the Powerlines blog said that one of the best things that blogs did in the campaign was to keep their claims in front of people before they had money for big ad buys.