Bin Laden remixes Fahrenheit 9/11

Bin Laden remixes Fahrenheit 9/11

: The eerie thing about the bin Laden tape is how he remixes Michael Moore — remixes as if in a Cuisinart. I swear the guy saw Fahrenheit 9/11 and picked up the themes for his latest wacky show — even the fixation with that goat book. It’s so nutty that if he weren’t such an evil murdering slime, it would almost be funny. Or it would sound like another 527 ad.

What’s also strange is that it’s hard to see exactly how he wants to influence the election. Though it may seem he’s trying to defeat the President, taunting Bush and America may only serve Bush. And that may be his goal: These cult nuts feed on having enemies and Bush is his ideal enemy.

I’ll add this: Kerry had better not use this as an opportunity to say, “See, Bush didn’t get bin Laden.” Here’s what the two candidates said today:

BUSH: Earlier today I was informed of the tape that is now being analyzed by America’s intelligence community. Let me make this very clear. Americans will not be intimidated or influenced by an enemy of our country. I’m sure Senator Kerry agrees with this. I also want to say to the American people that we are at war with these terrorists, and I am confident that we will prevail.

KERRY: In response to this tape of Osama bin Laden, let me just make it clear, crystal clear, as Americans we are absolutely united in our determination to hunt down and destroy Osama bin Laden and the terrorists. They are barbarians, and I will stop at absolutely nothing to hunt down, capture or kill the terrorists wherever they are, whatever it takes, period.

I was about to post this when I saw another Kerry comment:

In an interview with WISM in Milwaukee, Mr. Kerry also took the opportunity to suggest that Mr. bin Laden remained on the loose because of the Bush administration had bungled the campaign against terrorism.

“He didn’t choose to use American forces to hunt down Osama bin Laden,” Mr. Kerry said, referring to efforts to catch Mr. bin Laden in the mountainous Afghanistan-Pakistan border region. “He outsourced the job” to Afghan fighters.

And here’s a later report from the Washington Post:

Richard Holbrooke, a foreign policy adviser for Kerry, said on CNN that the tape was a reminder that Kerry would be more aggressive in pursuing bin Laden. “How can this grotesque mass murderer be out there on worldwide television more than three years after 9/11?” he demanded. “Why haven’t we captured him, if the Bush administration was going to be so effective in the war on terror?”

Kerry himself, in a television interview, complained that Bush “outsourced” the hunt for bin Laden and said, “We are paying the price for it today” — before he made his more circumspect statement. Bush joined the fray later in the evening, calling Kerry’s remarks “shameful” at a rally in Ohio….

Bad timing, Johnny, bad timing. We must be united against bin Laden as we were united against Hitler. Listen to your own statement, man. Keep on this track and it will backfire on you.

: Bin Laden snippets:

Contrary to what [President George W.] Bush says and claims — that we hate freedom — let him tell us then, “Why did we not attack Sweden?”

Sweden? Sweden? Where the hell did that come from? Is the guy sitting in New Jersey watching Ikea commercials? What does Sweden have to do with anything? Does he have the same brain fever Arafat has?

I wonder about you. Although we are ushering the fourth year after 9/11, Bush is still exercising confusion and misleading you and not telling you the true reason.

Echoes of F9/11.

And as I was looking at those towers that were destroyed in Lebanon, it occurred to me that we have to punish the transgressor with the same — and that we had to destroy the towers in America so that they taste what we tasted, and they stop killing our women and children.

This is the one part of the tape that sounds like himself: He would think in such sick, sophomoric symbolism.

We found no difficulties in dealing with the Bush administration, because of the similarities of that administration and the regimes in our countries, half of which are run by the military and half of which are run by monarchs. And our experience is vast with them.

And those two kinds are full of arrogance and taking money illegally.

The resemblance started when [former President George H.W.] Bush, the father, visited the area, when some of our own were impressed by America and were hoping that the visits would affect and influence our countries.

Then, what happened was that he was impressed by the monarchies and the military regimes, and he was jealous of them staying in power for tens of years, embezzling the public money without any accountability. And he moved the tyranny and suppression of freedom to his own country, and they called it the Patriot Act, under the disguise of fighting terrorism. And Bush, the father, found it good to install his children as governors and leaders.

More shades of F9/11: the obsession with the Saudi connection, the allusions to the American monarchy. It continues:

And we never knew that the commander-in-chief of the American armed forces would leave 50,000 of his people in the two towers to face those events by themselves when they were in the most urgent need of their leader. He was more interested in listening to the child’s story about the goat rather than worry about what was happening to the towers. So, we had three times the time necessary to accomplish the events.

There’s the ultimate 9/11 moment, of course: the goat book. Of course, it’s ridiculous to say that bin Laden and Atta could have been stopped in a matter of minutes. But he wants to feed F9/11’s contention that those minutes mattered.

: UPDATE: Richard Starr reminds me that Bin Laden vacationed with his rich family in Sweden. Thanks. It still looks as if this comes from a fevered brain, though.

: BILL MAHER UPDATE: Maher tonight says the tape won’t affect the election. “Americans know: Osama bin Laden does not pick our President. The Supreme Court does.”

: Maher says some of the stuff in the bin Laden tape “I swear to God could have come out of the Democratic National Committee or a Kerry speech.” Maher starts to read; Gen Wes Clark interrupts — sensibly — and doesn’t want to seem by silence to be agreeing with that. Maher reads some of bin Laden’s statements and the audience — amazingly — applauds! Maher: “Sometimes you can agree with an evil person. I mean, Hitler was a vegetarian.” What the F has become of us? A studio audience is applauding a mass murderer?

It gets worse. Gen. Wes says: “If George Bush had done his job before 9/11 we never would have had the strikes of 9/11.” Man, I’m glad I never supported him. It ain’t that simple, General.

Maher: “I don’t know why the Republicans get a mulligan on 9/11. The Democrats wouldn’t have.” Oh, crap.

: By the way, the last Maher show before the election is a dud of duds. Kevin Costner, political pundit?

: UPDATE: Joe Gandelman has the summary of who says what on the bin Laden tape.

136 responses to “Bin Laden remixes Fahrenheit 9/11”

  1. Munir Umrani Avatar

    Dear Sir,
    In the second paragraph of “Bin Laden remixes Fahrenheit 9/11,” you state: “These cult nuts feed on having enemies and Bush is his ideal enemy.” Governments also feed off having enemies and ours is no exception. I can recall Fidel Castro, Muammar Qathafi, Saddam Hussein, to name a few. There is nothing like an external enemy to galvanize the citizenry.

  2. Franky Avatar

    Why is a central plank of Kerry’s candidacy suddenly out of bounds? Iraq had nothing to do with Bin Laden. The war sucked away money and troops to continue the search for Bin Laden. In fact Bin Laden slide so far in to the background, Bush could say he wasn’t worried about Bin Laden (then of course he had to lie about saying that in the debates, but what the hell). Why is that not a fair point of attack on the admin? Isn’t that gloating face a reminder of that?
    So you want the mud removed from political debate yet you accuse Michael Moore of inadvertently giving Bin Laden his talking points?
    Guilt by association is one of the lowest types of slurs

  3. Kat Avatar

    I was wondering if Michael Moore may have produced this bit of moonbatery for Al Jazeera.
    It’s like Bin Laden’s mouth moving but spitting out Michael Moore nonsense.

  4. carsonfire Avatar

    I’ve always thought the fixation on the Goat book was deranged. Proof.

  5. freddie Avatar

    the warning you post is silly. A well-known anti-terror expert, Peter something, who had actually interviewed Bin Laden, stated today that there were more journalists close to Bora Bora than American troops and that we simply failed to have enopugh “boots on the ground.” Why, then, is Kerry to remain silent when the commander-in-chief bungles? What an odd position you take in what is generally considered a democracy. If voters choose to show distain for a Kerry remark, so be it.

  6. Franky Avatar

    I’ve noticed it’s Moore’s critics who continue to obsess about him. Maybe I’m moving in the wrong circles, but I haven’t heard anyone say they’re going to vote for Kerry because of Farenheit 9/11. But then a new video is produced by the man who oversaw the murder of thousands, providing irrefutable proof that he is indeed still alive, and the first thing you think of…Michael Moore.

  7. Franky Avatar

    I think the reference to Sweden is saying: “Sweden hasn’t done anything to deserve being attacked, and we haven’t”.
    He’s trying to disprove the arguments of a war of civilizations, i.e. that Al-Qeda is not against all christian countries, only against those it perceives have wronged islamic countries.

  8. Franky Avatar

    I think the reference to Sweden is saying: “Sweden hasn’t done anything to deserve being attacked, and we haven’t”.
    He’s trying to disprove the arguments of a war of civilizations, i.e. that Al-Qeda is not against all christian countries, only against those it perceives have wronged islamic countries.

  9. Jesse Avatar

    Somewhere along the road it became “un-fashionable” for anyone who does not intend to vote for Bush to cite anything from Moore’s movie. But last I checked, factual backup is provided on Moore’s website for all of the claims the movie makes.
    But to be fair, let’s pretend for argument’s sake that HALF of the film is a complete lie (conservative estimate). Even if that were the case, who could disagree that the Bush administration still has a LOT of “‘splainin’” to do?

  10. John Avatar

    Why when Bush and Cheney met with the 9/11 Commission to talk about 9/11 would they only do so under the following conditions:
    1) It could not be recorded
    2) They would not be under oath
    3) They (Bush and Cheney) had to be together
    Can anyone offer an explanation, I’m having a hard time with that one.

  11. Ruth Avatar

    Bin Laden committed an inexcusable attrocity.
    So did W.
    In the twin towers, more than 3,000 were killed.
    In Iraq more than 100,000 Iraqis by our own figures were unnecceary casualties.
    I have one son, one daughter, 3 grandchildren. If any of them were killed in any psychotic poseur’s quest for an image of any sort, that would be inexcusable.
    Imagine the numbers of families who are now dedicated to revenge on our poor choices.

  12. Jim B Avatar

    Franky, Jesse, and the like…
    You’re not serious, right?
    Take a deep breath and think about it…Obviously you don’t like President Bush, big deal. There was a significant portion of the country that disagreed with Reagan. That disagreed with other presidents. It’s part of our system. As far as I’m concerned you have every right to be wrong: it’s a free country.
    But seriously…**think** about what you’re saying. You’re taking a megalomaniacal psychopath at his word that what he is saying is true. What he is saying is propaganda directed at people like yourself: people who are so enamored of their Bush hatred that they are blinded to the reality of the war bin Laden and his ilk started.
    Would you have taken Hitler’s word for it that the United States deserved to have been targeted because we intervened in a European affair?
    As for the rest of your comments, they have been so thoroughly debunked as to be unworthy of further retort.
    For your sake and the sake of your country, wake up…

  13. Kat Avatar

    Sweden hasn’t done anything to get attacked because they are so stinking PC they’ll be a sharia shithole if they continue to appease. The Arab terrorists run Sweden. They don’t need bin laden–they have capitulated to the muslim disease and call it multiculturalism. Bets are that Sweden will be the first in Europe to descend to the muslim sewer.
    http://www.aftonbladet.se/vss/nyheter/story/0,2789,529910,00.html
    Malm

  14. heh Avatar

    heh, “moonbats”, that’s funny!

  15. John Avatar

    Jim:
    I don’t recall the conditions surrounding Bush’s meeting with the 9/11 Commission being debunked, does anyone else? And I don’t recall praising or agreeing with bin Laden (or Hitler for that matter) in my post.
    What the hell are you talking about?

  16. Dishman Avatar

    Seems to me the quisling Swedes did the same thing last time ’round, Kat.
    Or was that unduly harsh?
    Franky and Jesse.. there’s no way anyone’s going to convince you that Iraq is central to the WoT. I won’t even try. Just know that there are some of us who believe that it is. I’m not even sure if you believe it is a war.
    If you start from the position that we are at war, the entire logic works out differently.

  17. Dishman Avatar

    John, I don’t think Jim was referring to you. If it makes no sense to apply the comment, it probably wasn’t meant to be applied to you.
    Incidentally, Ruth, the “100,000 dead” Johns Hopkins study has been at least partially debunked already: http://www.chicagoboyz.net/archives/002543.html

  18. What.Josh.Says Avatar

    Let’s look at what is happening right now.
    The Bush campaign is trying to use the OBL tape to slap the Kerry campaign around, knock them off their stride, and argue that for Kerry now even to mention anything about the president’s failure to bag bin Laden is the height of shamefullness.
    The president’s communications director even told reporters that the only acceptable thing would be for John Kerry to observe a twelve or more hour moratorium on attacks on the president, even though the president should be allowed to continue attacking John Kerry.
    That is what they’re playing for. (That’s also the reason the Bush campaign didn’t allow the Kerry campaign to be briefed on the soon-to-be-released tape until late in the day. The president knew about it early in the morning.)
    If the Kerry campaign falls for this it would be the height of foolishness. In itself the bin Laden video is not a matter of controversy. What the president’s campaign is trying to do is either goad the Kerry campaign into three days of passivity in the run-up to the election or fuss up a debate about the supposed outrageousness of Kerry’s faulting the president for allowing bin Laden to remain at large. The Kerry folks should not play into that trap. The answer is to keep to the game-plan and remain on the offensive.
    The foreign policy focus of the Kerry campaign has long been the president’s failure to maintain the focus on al Qaida, as evidenced by his failure to capture bin Laden and dismantle his network. To abandon that message now would be insanity.
    If you’re a Democrat and you notice your fellow Democrats dipping into these spasms of fecklessness and weak-kneedism, as I’ve described above, I strongly encourage to slap them around a few times and tell them to get a hold of themselves. If you’re experiencing such spasms, by all means, slap yourself a few times and tell yourself the same thing.
    More than 95% of the electorate has already made up its mind. This is all about how those last few percentage points of the electorate break. And that will be determined by which campaign holds the initiative, stays on the offensive for the next three days and who can mobilize their forces to win this on the ground.
    Kerry, the candidate, must forward looking in these final days. But his surrogates should be hammering the president for his failure to capture bin Laden at Tora Bora and pressing the factual case that his campaign has tried so hard to deny. On hitting the indisputable failures of the president there should be no let up.
    At every turn, toughness and fight has been the subtext of this election. Who has it and who doesn’t. The Bush message is that all of the president’s mistakes pale in comparison to the fact of his toughness and steely resolve. The conceit of the Kerry campaign and the Democrats is that they’re every bit as tough as the president and his party, and more.
    Now’s the time for them to show it.

  19. Shawn Avatar

    Man, the comments in this thread are a real throwback to the fall of 2001. Any attempts to “explain” the enemy attacked as justifications for the enemy. Its clear to me that Bin Laden refers to Sweden because, as someone else has already pointed out, they are not an enemy of Al-Qaida, but America is. Bush said we were attacked because we love freedom, but there are plenty of countries that love freedom (e.g. Sweden), so this can’t be the main reason the Twin Towers were attacked. Now, by saying this, does that mean I approve of them being attacked? OF COURSE NOT. But I can understand that it has to do with American economic and military power, and our interaction with the Middle East peace process and our troops in the region. Those are the reasons; not because Americans “love freedom.”
    I remember having this same argument after 9-11, and its happening all over again. Its amazing how bin Laden is still having the same effect on America, after all of these years.

  20. Faramin Avatar

    It is interesting! After a long absence, bin Laden reappears again only a few days before the US elections. He threatens America. He says he will attack and he adds to the fear created by the Bush administration.
    Cheney and Bush are celebrating. This is exactly what Bush wants. No gift is better than this for them. It will help them get re-elected. Fear factor has always worked for the Republicans and it will have a huge impact this time too.
    But what if Bush is re-elected? How would Bin Laden feel? HE WILL ABSOLUTELY BE DELIGHTED. After all, nothing could have helped him and his fundamentalist group grow more than the policies of the Bush administration. He wants to continue to grow. He wants Bush to help him, as he has helped him in last few years, to further grow.
    Bin Laden is good for Bush and Bush is good for Bin laden. No wonder they made such a good match as business partners. They complete each other. After all, they are both criminals. They are both fundamentalist and they are both anti-human.

  21. Paul Avatar

    Of course Bush is good for Bin Laden…he’s accomodating the Jihadists in their rush to reach the afterlife.
    Listen you stupid moonbat brainwashed morons, the reason UBL put out this weakass tape is because he can’t mount an attack on us because we have decimated his ranks. The reason it sounds like Fatso’s talking points is because he’s appealing to his allies in America…YOU.
    The Jihadists that can fight are going to Fallujah and Ramalla where they are being dispatched en mass. After the election Bush will crush them in Fallujah, and since the Jihadists, Arafat, Chirac, The Guardian, and all the leftist quislings in the USA couldn’t conspire to get the traitor-gigolo Johnny Ketchup elected they will know they are doomed. All your fervent hope for the defeat of America will be in vain, you treacherous scum.

  22. Ruth Avatar

    If bin Laden is still having this effect, isn’t it amazing that with the weaponry that is supposed to be so accurate we don’t have any better effect?
    I remember that in the original strike when we attacked Iraq supposedly to surprise and take out Saddam Husssein, a 6 year old child was killed…Hussein lives… that child is worth a world of creeps.
    We need to stop killing innocent civilians.

  23. Eileen Avatar

    Oh jeez……Faramin the Iranian and franky are back. Or is that you, Faramin, in both dis/guises? Any google search will establish Faramin operates on the internet under many names. It has otherwise been established that both of them (or he only) lives in Canada. I.e., they really have jack to say about anything here.
    As for freddie, check out HIS web site.
    For those trying to speak logically to some here who clearly have other fish to fry (if you investigate them at all) is a waste of your time and effort.
    Kat, thanks for the Swedish connections. No surprise….
    As a former criminal defense investigator, the thing I noticed about the tape were the many bulges on the wall behind OBL. Apparently he’s still in a cave somewhere. That part’s the best news of the day.
    Shariah law and it’s crazies will not prevail. No need to despair. Allah is God by many other names. The Islamists will fail; it’s only a matter of time.
    As for the U.S. elections, OBL’s influence will be nil.
    If franky or/Faramin get vituperative in response to this post, I’ll just take it with a grain…..

  24. maggie Avatar

    I am really becomming concerned with the capacity of Americans to fall for propaganda…ie. the 100,000 figure, F9-11, etc.
    This tape was an appeal to civil unrest in the US…it was intended to divide and conquer. Osama is losing support in the Arab world so he’s trying to tie 9-11 to Israel. He’s mad because Israel, with the support of some US allies, is pulling out of Gaza…and Arafat is gone among many other things.
    The most important thing was his appeal to the radical left who are his allies. I think the guy is brilliant. We are being brilliantly manipulated.

  25. John Lynch Avatar
    John Lynch

    Watching Bill Maher, I often notice that he shares a look with the camera when he is disgusted with his audience.
    Also, remember the tape was for the first time aimed at Americans, not the Arab world. Why is that? It once more shows that our enemies do not understand us at all. Bin Laden is obviously using far left rhetoric that does not appeal to most Americans. He claims responsibility for 9/11. Oh, that’s gonna make us want to just let bygones be bygones. What a @#$@.

  26. Elrod Avatar

    I’m with Josh Marshall here. The War on Terror has been politicized from day one. It isn’t like we were just attacked today, where total, apolitical unity is of prime importance. The meaning of the video is not what Osama said. It’s the fact that he is alive and can taunt us at will. Sure, it’s important to show resolve and state that this is America’s war, not a Republican or Democratic war. But there’s no reason why criticism of Bush is off the table. You know that Bush will exploit this to frighten the masses. Kerry must counter by saying that the real fear is that after three years this man is still on the loose. It’s absurd that 3 years after the attacks this man is still on the loose. I think Kerry should be attacking Bush constantly over this, and should ignore all hypocritcal pleas against “politicizing” terrorism.

  27. Chad Evans Avatar

    Nice analysis Jeff. John, I disagree with your statement that this tape was aimed at Americans. Yes, the election and his hatred of Bush was all he talked about, but the way he appeared in the tape to me tried to convince the Arab World and others that he is some kind of dimplomat.
    This is the first time a tape of Bin Laden has been made without an AK-47 next to him. This is the first time Bin Laden did not say that Al Qaida was beating the U.S. There is also the matter of the previous tape in the week, by the American.
    Are these two tapes in sequential order? It would seem to me that the first tape was aimed at Americans and the Bin Laden tape was only propoganda to recruit new jihadis. Bin Laden’s tape was just too weird for it not to be intended for our allies, European countries who see the U.S. as evil and the Arab world.

  28. marc Avatar

    Still going to vote for Kerry, Jeff?
    Instead of uniting with all America against Bin Laden, Kerry uses the tape for political purposes. He is still on the same old Tora Bora and outsourcing nonsense.
    Kerry has said if he were President Saddam would have been removed. Really? Then why did he vote against getting Saddam out of Kuwait after the US had passed “the global test” from the UN?
    Kerry does not have a clue about terrorism, for him it is just a nusance.

  29. Eileen Avatar

    Right, John!
    And Ruth, who says: “If bin Laden is still having this effect……” !!!!!
    Hello??? Ruth, where do you live?
    JJ is right. The F911 connection cannot be denied. Just look what MSM and the lefties have done for us. Oh my Allah…….

  30. Cog Avatar

    At least Stewart has humor and intelligence, if not tact or humility. Maher has none of the above.

  31. Rootbeer Avatar

    Paul, you can go to hell. How dare you suggest that I or any other Kerry voter hopes for the defeat of America.

  32. Azubah Avatar

    I thought it was stupid when the right wing nuts were arguing that the criticisms from Michael Moore and Kerry were just providing encouragement for the terrorists. Then those talking points appear in Bin Laden’s speech, as even Maher acknowledges.
    And I read some of the scary comments above.
    We should stick together on this fight, not encourage the other side. And I’m not saying that as a liberal; I’m saying that as an American.

  33. doug Avatar

    36 of 38 Arabs visting my farm to behead lambs during Ramadon 1990 wanted Saddam to win the first Gulf War. Saddam was a hero to militants. Saddam was playing the UN like a drum. People who don’t have any other contact with Arabs than a NY Times article don’t have the big picture. “Death to America” is a trueism, not a joke on SNL.

  34. Eileen Avatar

    Azubah,
    You are quintessential perfection. And I’m a Libertarian saying that to you – a professed liberal.. You are fair, honest and kind.
    Come to my home for dinner…..
    BRAVO!!

  35. Paul Avatar

    Rootbeer:
    Then you are just a useful fool. Either way you are complicit with America’s enemies. Fuck off.

  36. Eileen Avatar

    Azubah?
    Inasmuch as your email address leads to nowhere, I have to back up on my initial impression of you’re being ‘quintessentially perfect’. Your words wowed me but, too bad; so sad.
    You really do need to research out here in the bloggosphere.

  37. Darone Avatar

    I think you are all missing Jeff’s point.
    Man, that Costner is a pompous ass. Say what you will, but Maher’s show can at least usually be entertaining. Costner is example #1 why we should have a referendum against celebrities speaking about politics. This asshole wants to come and discuss politics, but then decides that he isn’t voting. What the hell was he talking about?

  38. HA Avatar

    Jeff,
    Bin Laden is appealing to every American who’s reaction to 9/11 was to ask “why do they hate us?” He is appealing to Patty Murray using the language of Michael Moore. He is saying if you leave us alone, we will leave you alone. Do you believe him? I don’t.
    Bin Laden is offering a hudna. Jihadists, following the example set by the Prophet Mohammed himself, ask for a hudna when they are losing. He needs time to regroup and regather before resuming the attack. He knows that John Kerry will give him this chance. He knows that Bush won’t. This tape is an admission by Bin Laden that Bush is winning the war.
    I had been worrried about a terrorist attack to disrupt this election. I am no longer worried about such an attack. Al Qaeda won’t attack while Bin Laden is dangling the false hope of a hudna in front of America. This tape isn’t a cue to attack. It is a cue NOT to attack.
    The only honest conclusion that can be drawn from this tape is that Bin Laden wants John Kerry to win. Any other interpretation is dishonest spin.

  39. HA Avatar

    Jeff,
    What the F has become of us? A studio audience is applauding a mass murderer?
    I’ll tell you what became of us. America is on a path of moral and intellectual decline. Our country is rotting out from the inside. Bin Laden doesn’t need to destroy us. We are in the processing of destroying ourselves.

  40. BarCodeKing Avatar

    My response to Binny: “Is that all you’ve got?!” It shows me that the war on terror is working, because all bin Laden sends us is a videotape instead of bombs. Al Qaeda would attack us if they could.
    I guess Al Qaeda thought that Masked Marvel “Azzam the American” character wasn’t scary enough, so they had to send in the varsity (bin Laden). Well, that speech wasn’t scary at all. It was a weak little “you don’t mess with our security, we won’t mess with yours” message. It was the message of a group whose leadership has been decimated. We hear that 3/4 of Al Qaeda’s leadership has been “brought to justice” via capture or death over the past three years. You do the math: If we take out 3/4 in three years, how many will be left after four years at that rate? That, my friends, is why Ol’ Skunkbeard sounds so desperate. He’s losing, and when you have the bad guy on the ropes, you don’t stop punching him until he goes down.
    Finally, a cartoon for you:
    http://www.stripcreator.com/comics/barcodeking/255553

  41. Walter E. Wallis Avatar
    Walter E. Wallis

    About the goat book – to bin Laden, Michael Moore and a suprising number of dimokrauts, a book about goats can be pornography.

  42. HA Avatar

    Jeff,
    CASE CLOSED:
    Diaa Rashwan, a Cairo-based expert on extremist Muslim militants, said bin Laden was trying to influence Americans “to give Kerry their votes, not Bush.”
    http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/B/BIN_LADEN_WORLD?SITE=DCTMS&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
    Bin Laden wants Kerry to win. He NEEDS Kerry to win because he NEEDS a hudna. Any other analysis is pure BS. You know it. John Kerry knows it.

  43. Ruth Avatar

    Sorry, HA, bin Laden isn’t campaigning for Kerry. It’s amazing how many posts took that tack. If bin Laden sends out a tape this close to the campaign, it’s for sure he’s looking to have an effect, but he’s not a dodo, he knows Bush is making a big play for the Security Mom vote.
    This mass murderer is as always playing a game that he makes the rules for. We pray that his words will have no effect of any kind, and that his minions will slink off into the shadows they were born in. But we need to see that our own actions are what we are accountable for. They should not sink into meaningless attacks without basis in moral judgment.
    Yes, I am a Kerry supporter, and if those who wish to include me in their attacks are scared, then I’m sorry for them all. Your candidate has failed the moral test, and accusing Sen. Kerry of meaning that he won’t act in defense of America is simply provably innaccurate.
    With John Kerry in the White House, we can begin to heal from this mass psychosis.

  44. Ruth Avatar

    Oh and Eileen, I would not tell you where I live since you are obviously not well intentioned (no, I didn’t say dangerous).

  45. Faramin Avatar

    Eillen,
    Wow, “brilian”.
    If I google “Eillen” I will get thousands of results. Does it mean you are operating under thousands of different name?
    Listen to yourself! You never make inteligent comments. Always dumb. Always stupid. I’m glad those who hate me are as dumb as you are.
    You leave me no other alternative but rediculing you.

  46. Puce Avatar

    heer heer

  47. Franky Avatar

    Since we’ve moved in to a debate on “who Bin Laden would vote for” I don’t think there’s any doubt that he wants Bush back in the White House. Who else could isolate America for the next four years, making its hunt for Al-Qeda that much more difficult? Bush. Who else could polarize Muslims and non-Muslims, changing a war against a small group in to what appears to many Muslims as a war against muslims? Bush. Who now has no credibility if there truly is a threat from another country akin to Afghanistan but will be forced to invade alone (do you really think some of our allies such as UK will fall for this twice? – the governments may want to stay in Bush’s good books, but the population won’t let them).
    I’m not going to listen to Bin Laden’s words on who he wants (God knows how many bluffs and double bluffs he’s trying to make), but a cursory juxtaposition of the actions of Bush and Bin Laden’s goals reveal quite clearly who he wants as President on Nov. 3.

  48. Robert McClelland Avatar

    Not only is bin Laden still alive after 3 years but now he’s making fun of Bush. Bwah!

  49. Sean Avatar

    Ruth:
    If you’re a Kerry supporter, then you’re a Kerry supporter. And you are under no obligation to change your vote just cause some genocidal psycho seems to be tilting to your guy.
    But, c’mon, the man has practically cannonized Michael Moore as an honorary Wahabbist. If that isn’t making a statement about who he wants to emerge victorious in Tuesday, I don’t know what is.
    If the shoe were on the other foot, and Osama was ranting about how Kerry betrayed his swift boat veterans, I wouldn’t argue about which side in the election he was tilting towards — I would argue that the man is a psychotic nut and NOTHING he says matters at all.

  50. Harry in Atlanta Avatar
    Harry in Atlanta

    You give bin Laden waaaaaaaay too much credit when you say that he uses a kind of reverse psychology on us in order to get Bush re-elected because he needs an opponet. He attacked the US under Bill Clinton repeatedly and all he got in return was talk and a few tomahawks aimed at camels. With Bush he got his ass kicked all over Afghanistan and now he cannot show his face in public for fear of someone whacking him for a bounty.
    The thing is bin Laden doesn’t really never has understaood America, Americans, and especially George Bush. I would guess right now for all his bluster he looks fairly impotent to a great many of his followers who believed his spiel from the ’90s and were thinking of bin Laden as the “strong horse.” But he has had far better success with a Democrat in the White House and by now he has learned enough to realize the difference in how each of the political parties in the US deal with terrorism. Put it this way under Clinton and the Democrats bin Laden was the big Kahuna while under Bush he has been reduced to the cave man.
    If you were bin Laden and having had the experiences he has had dealing with the leadership from both American political parties and you pined for the days when you were the bell of the ball who would you really like to see win the election? The answer ain’t GW Bush because all he will get is more of the same but with Kerry bin Laden has a opportunity for a more favorable outcome and he knows it.
    I believe bin Laden has changed his strategy but not his core beliefs or goals. He seems now to be using a page out of the North Vietnamese playbook and presenting himself and his followers as the victims of American aggression. The old, “if you leave us alone we’ll leave you alone” lie that eventually gave the North Vietnamese the key to Saigon and a million more dead. He knows Kerry, he knows Kerry’s history and he wants Kerry to be elected. I would if I were him.

  51. carsonfire Avatar

    I’ve seen the light! We must reduce international terrorism from “mass psychosis” to “nuisance”. You are getting sleepy… sleepy… 9/11 never happened… you imagined the whole thing… all those people didn’t die… and even if they did, it was because the terrorists were following Karl Rove’s orders…
    This is exactly the “soft underbelly” that OBL referred to earlier, when he thought we would react to 9/11 the way that Kerry et al would have us react. He wants the soft underbelly back in charge.

  52. Dishman Avatar

    The arguements about what bin Laden intended with this tape reminds me of a scene from “The Princess Bride”…
    Which of the candidates does bin Laden want to see lose?
    Maybe he doesn’t like either of them.

  53. Ebb Tide Avatar

    Jarvis you nailed it, I feel EXACTLY the same way, I bet MM was PLEASED that OBL saw his little movie, he is probably smiling a bashful “aw shucks, little ole me” grin right now, and “to think OBL saw my little ole movie”…. He is one sick [fill in blank.]
    And it *would be* funny, if it weren’t so impossibly sick and twisted.
    And I also agree that Kerry should take a HIGHER road on this than he is presently doing. No gloating over the goating.
    ALSO: OBL is probably IN SWEDEN.

  54. mary Avatar

    As a follower of pre-medieval Shariah law, bin Laden, his Saudi supporters and all of his fellow jihadis follow this rule:
    Lying is permissible in a time of war (or jihad).
    From Reliance of the Traveller: The Classic Manual of Islamic Sacred Law Umdat Al-Salik
    pp. 744-745
    PERMISSIBLE LYING
    R8.2 The Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) said,
    “He who settles disagreements between people to bring about good or says something commendable is not a liar.”
    “Whether the purpose is war, settling a disagreement, or gaining the sympathy of a victim legally entitled to retaliate against one so that he will forbear to do so; it is not unlawful to lie when any of these aims can only be attained through lying.”
    [Interpretation thanks to Mentat]
    Wahhabis like bin Laden and our Saudi

  55. Faramin Avatar

    Mary,
    Ok, you don’t want to listen to Bin Laden because he lies? Fine! He might well be lying.
    But you can watch Fahrenheit 9/11 on line instead. Even if you don’t like Moore. All you’ll see in that are facts. The facts many do not wish to admit, but that doesn’t mean, for example, the devsatation of 100,000 Iraqi lives majority of them women and children as a result of US air strikes didn’t happen. This is according to a US health exprets report.

  56. Blueprint Avatar

    Let’s not listen to OBL? That’s what we weren’t doing prior to 9/11.

  57. Ricky Avatar

    Good lord, Bin Laden parrots Michael Moore and Maher’s audience applauds and the moonbats hype F911’s release on the internet as “facts”.
    Nice company you keep.

  58. Faramin Avatar

    Yeah Ricky,
    F911 is released on the net. Isn’t it a fact?
    But that’s not I meant “smarty”. Most of the CONTENT in the movie are facts. THAT’S WHAT I MEANT. I thought I was clear on that.
    You don’t want to watch it? Fine! But let’s those who want to watch it, do so. It’s not much to ask, is it?

  59. carsonfire Avatar

    Is somebody trying to censor Michael Moore?

  60. Derek Avatar

    Bin Laden wants to kill us, whoever is president. What annoys me most is the insinuation in Jeff’s post that the return of OBL is somehow off-limits for Kerry. What? Bush has shamelessly exploited the 9/11 atrocity. Now Kerry can’t point out that, after four years, OBL, admitted mass killer, is STILL LOOSE and looking tan, ready and rested? It’s clear that the message now must be: gee thanks, Geroge, good try. But it’s time to give someone else a chance to finish the job. Nothing crystalizes Bush’s struggles with the WoT more starkly and sadly than bin Laden alive and TAUNTING us. That’s the Bush legacy, folks. I wish I could vote for him. But Kerry gets my vote and we’ll hold him to the same harsh standard if he screws up the job. Put up or get out.

  61. pianoman Avatar

    Jeff:
    Why do you give a crap what Bill Maher says? He’s a frickin’ bad comedian with a stupid show. Most half-assed bloggers are smarter about politics than he is.

  62. pianoman Avatar

    Jeff:
    Why do you give a crap what Bill Maher says? He’s a frickin’ bad comedian with a stupid show. Most half-assed bloggers are smarter about politics than he is.

  63. jackson zed Avatar
    jackson zed

    Congratulations on your moral minute, Jeff. Ah, it’s the pause that refreshes, huh?
    You’ve stumbled upon a truth that most of us non-leftists have understood all along: the only difference between Michael Moore’s and Osama Bin Laden’s anti-Americanism is that OBL has the courage of his convictions.
    :jackson

  64. Jeff Jarvis Avatar

    And that, Jackson, is every bit as offensive as both of them.

  65. SteveMG Avatar

    Well, this whole thing – the Bin Laden tape – was a setup by Karl Rove anyway.
    Walter Cronkite says so. And everyone trusts Uncle Walt, correct?
    Sheesh, just when you think things couldn’t get any weirder . . . .
    Man, sometimes I just want to pickup things and move to the mountains in Montana or Wyoming or somewhere. Who’s with me?
    SMG

  66. Lance Avatar

    I’ve voted Democrat for President since 1980(Mondale, Dukakis,Clinton.Gore,) I even voted for Ted Kennedy in the 1980 primary. I was going to vote for Kerry (supported Gephardt in primary.)However, since hearing the Bin Laden tape have had to rethink my choice. Now, I’m voting for President Bush, because I do not want to help Bin Laden.
    Lance
    Toledo, Ohio

  67. Ricky Avatar

    ***Most of the CONTENT in the movie are facts. THAT’S WHAT I MEANT. ***
    You and Osama are in agreement.
    Nice company.

  68. Geek, Esq. Avatar
    Geek, Esq.

    Wow, the McCarthyism is running rampant. Osama parrots the left’s criticisms, and that means they are Osama-lovers?
    Some people are in need of remedial logic lessons.
    And why should John Kerry be forced to abandon a central point of his campaign by an event THAT SUPPORTS HIS CONTENTION?
    Osama’s life likely depends on getting Bush reelected.

  69. hopscotch Avatar
    hopscotch

    “Why did we not attack Sweden?”
    Thats it! Bin Ladin is in Sweden.

  70. jcrue Avatar

    F— Maher and Clark and the audience.
    Osama for Kerry. How can it be any other way?

  71. syn Avatar

    I am voting for Bush because if he can withstand the overwhelming amount of uncivil hate speech motivated out of the lies and fabrications created by intellectual elitists who worship an ideology determine to undermine the American soul, so can I.
    Look in the liberal mirror and you will see the faces of hate.

  72. Observer Avatar

    Note that Clinton met with the 9-11 Commission:
    1) In private
    2) With legal counsel
    3) With no recording or transcripts of events
    Further info:

    Time Magazine
    April 19, 2004
    Did Clinton do enough?
    The 9/11 commission investigates Clinton’s actions against terrorism
    By JOHN CLOUD
    Earlier this month, Bill Clinton returned to Washington to try to convince the 9/11 commission that as President he did what he could to stop Osama bin Laden.
    Clinton was allowed to appear in private — in a secret, bugproof room…
    …Clinton’s four hours of testimony on April 8 went unrecorded…
    Clinton brought along Sandy Berger, his National Security Adviser, and Bruce Lindsey, his White House consigliere.
    http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/04/19/clinton.tm/

    So it would seem this using this as criticism of Bush is quite dishonest.

  73. Faramin Avatar

    Ricky,
    You have nothing valuable to say, do you? I understand.

  74. mary Avatar

    Let’s not listen to OBL? That’s what we weren’t doing prior to 9/11.
    Prior to 9/11, OBL proved that he was at war with us through his actions (Kenya, the Cole bombing). We should have paid attention to his actions before 9/11 too.
    Actions speak louder than words. By financing bin Laden before and after 9/11, by financing jihad factory madrassas, and by financing the Iraqi insurgents now, bin Laden

  75. Robert McClelland Avatar

    Look in the liberal mirror and you will see the faces of hate.
    Dood, you need to scroll up in the comments until you get to Kat vomiting all over Sweden just because bin Laden mentioned the country in his video if you want to see the true face of hate.

  76. jackson zed Avatar
    jackson zed

    And that, Jackson, is every bit as offensive as both of them.
    Whoa, Hoss, don’t shoot the messenger.
    I never said there was no terrorist threat posed to the US– Moore did.
    I never said the Iraqi insurgency was the moral equivalent of the Minutemen in 1776– Moore did.
    I never said that the most regretable aspect of 9/11 was that the victims were primarily liberal– Moore did.
    You’ve heard all of this and more I’m sure, but the problem is that when you heard Moore say it you dismissed it. You dismissed it because the left in general has eaten so much of it’s own dogfood that it now barks: Bush the chimp, Bush as Hitler, blood for oil, blood for Halliburton, republicans as fascists, racists, etc. etc.
    You’ve become so desensitized to your own bad faith and hyperbole that you don’t even notice it anymore–until it comes out of somebody like Bin Laden’s mouth. Then you notice.
    :jackson

  77. Franky Avatar

    Is it just me, or do other peopke reading these comments see that the personal insults, the posts that drip with vitriol almost without exception are coming from right-wingers? I’m not sure it has any larger significance, but sort of hard to miss.

  78. Nate Man Avatar

    As far as Bin Laden’s would rather see as president, who knows? But it’s still good propraganda either way. If Bush wins, he can then claim that America is so corrupt that we deserve to be continually attcked. If Kerry wins, then he’ll claim victory against his enemy, Bush.
    This leads me to what I fear may be a result of the election. A Bush defeat is going to make many people around the world very happy. No only Europeans, but many people around the Middle East who are America’s enemies. This is going to cause the Right of the country to loath Kerry with an unimaginable intentsity immediately. Leftist may think this doesn’t much matter, but it isn’t their candy asses that are in harms way in the armed forces. I’m concerned about the military’s morale collasping with Kerry as Commander-in-Chief

  79. mary Avatar

    Robert McClelland – speaking of hate, I’m surprised to see that you can still comment on this site. You’ve been banned from so many blogs already…

  80. NYJoe Avatar

    Maybe Moore is writing bin Laden’s material now. Kerry gave him the address of the cave, since he apparently knows where bin Laden is and would have scooped him up the first day in Afghanistan. Though at the time, Kerry approved of our strategy in Tora Bora…

  81. Faramin Avatar

    Mary,
    Being banned from many blogs doesn’t necessarily mean that the person is making hate comments. May be the owners of those blogs are just too afraid of some truth to be known. I am sure, if it was up to you or those like Eileen or kat, I would be banned too. But honestly, who has made hate comments accompanied by baseless accusations, you three or me?

  82. Steve Rhodes Avatar

    Attacking the Saudi royal family has been one of bin Ladin’s main obsessions long before F911 was made.

  83. Kate Avatar

    What we are witnessing isn’t just looniness from the left anymore – they are suffering from a full-blown case of political necrotizing fasceitis…

  84. mark Avatar

    Hey Frankie – I don’t know about any peopke, but I see a lot personal insults and dripping vitriol coming from everywhere, so shut your sanctamonious ass up! OBL doesn’t give a rat’s tushy who’s elected; he’s got his own agenda. I wouldn’t put it past him to try to get in your head, but you have to let him in.
    OBL does use some of Moore’s talking points. That may or may not mean anything. I wouldn’t like it though if I were a Kerry supporter. Republicans regularly get trashed for spouting talking points that have some similiarity to crap put out by the KKK and pro-aryan rascist groups. Moore may have used facts for F_911, but he used them in the same way I can prove 1+1=3. Twisting and turning and editing “facts” doesn’t make “truth”. It makes you an obnoxious asshole.
    I’ve yet to see any credible explanation about how an extra 7.5 minutes reading to children was wasted time. Le Monde (“We are all Americans now!”) started putting out anti-US editorials w/in a week of 9-11, and they became a regular feature before Iraq became a debate. And I don’t see how another battalion, another corps, another friggin’ army would have made any difference in Afganistan. Do any of you have any idea how huge and mountainous and rough that terrain is? How much logistical support would be needed (in one of the worst places on earth to provide it)? How you could very easily be setting up hundreds, or yes, thousands of soldiers to die in ambushes and guerrilla fighting (and friendly fire)? And how, despite all that, you’d improve your odds of finding these 2 or 3 local-looking heroes, who didn’t want to be found, about as much as you’d improve your odds of dropping $20 on the lottery instead of $1.
    I still don’t get how Kerry sez:
    1) out-sourcing Tora Bora is bad, out-sourcing Iraq, good.
    2) never give another country veto power over US forces, but my reasons will pass a global test.
    3) I supported and gave statements similiar to Bush vs Bush LIED!
    4) It’s the wrong war, the wrong time; come on, allies, join us.
    5) The UN and our allies will back us; but every friggin’ nation on Bush’s side is bribed, coerced, or a puppet
    Oh, and John: Bush and Cheney were to testify as the prez and vice, and as such were protecting the powers of the executive branch, same as the legis will fiddle-f*ck over nominations and the judges strike down good ideas that are bad laws.
    The commision didn’t have the power to make the prez and v.p. under oath and probably recorded. As for being together, call it protection against mud-slinging (in case Bush used “happy” and Cheney “glad” at one point; no one could claim differences in their info); the recording part could also fall under here. Don’t like? Tough, I happen to think seperation of powers was pretty damn clever of the founding fathers. When it gets abused, well, it’s the same as putting up with commie douche-bags speaking their
    garbage so I have freedom of speech. Unless you’re willing to make me Autocrat For Life (with unlimited powers), don’t piss and moan.

  85. Yehudit Avatar

    Remind me again why you’re voting for Kerry?

  86. Yehudit Avatar

    “But last I checked, factual backup is provided on Moore’s website for all of the claims the movie makes.”
    Wrong.
    “In Iraq more than 100,000 Iraqis by our own figures were unnecceary casualties.”
    Wrong.

  87. Yehudit Avatar

    “Being banned from many blogs doesn’t necessarily mean that the person is making hate comments.”
    But in McClelland’s case it does.
    “I am sure, if it was up to you or those like Eileen or kat, I would be banned too. But honestly, who has made hate comments accompanied by baseless accusations, you three or me?”
    You.

  88. LogCabin Avatar

    Mark my words,
    President Kerry will find a way to get the US out of Iraq. He will NOT wage a war on terror. He will NOT finish the job against Bin Laden.
    I am not such a fool as to believe Bush or Kerry. I judge a man by his actions, not his words. John Kerry’s entire political career has been U.S. retreat, disarmament, and negotiation with our enemies.
    So here are our choices: A flawed, possibly incompetent President who will at least fight back, and a pampered poser who will pay lip service to defense, but not really take any action.
    America’s enemies must be so happy right now.

  89. Yehudit Avatar

    “Now Kerry can’t point out that, after four years, OBL, admitted mass killer, is STILL LOOSE and looking tan, ready and rested?”
    Excuse me? The guy looks sick as a dog. You know he has a kidney disease.
    ” It’s clear that the message now must be: gee thanks, Geroge, good try. But it’s time to give someone else a chance to finish the job.”
    Kerry’s problem – and yours – is thinking that international terrorism begins and ends with OBL. OBL is a sick man bottled up in a cave somewhere. He isn’t running anything. Right now the main personality in the terrorist pantheon is Zarquawi, who incidentally was in Iraq before we invaded. Saddam was financing terrorists and talking to AQ, as the 9-11 Commission Report and Duelfer Report both show.
    One of the many reasons I am working my ass off to make sure Kerry is not elected, is that he is totally clueless about the nature of this war, and every time he opens his mouth about OBL he proves it yet again.
    Do you really think that once we exhibit OBL’s head on a stick all islamist terrorism will grind to a halt? Is Kerry stupid enough to believe that, or venal enough to exploit it as a campaign issue even though he knows it’s not true? Pick one.

  90. Eileen Avatar

    Mary,
    Many thanks, as always, for your erudite commentary and enlightening leads.
    As for Faramin’s last comments to you, it is completely understandable why he would assume a defensive posture re booted bloggers. Here is an excerpt from pejmanesque.com, a site authored by a fellow Iranian:
    “Faramin:
    I choose my words very carefully when I tell you to go straight to Hell. I’ll link to whomever I damn well please on my blog, and Jarvis has loads of links to Iranian blog sites, and other websites, which your dull-witted ass would know if you bothered to check. Furthermore, I don’t need your imbecilic lectures on what duties I owe my “countrymen.”
    Anyone who tries to politicize the discussion of a calamitous natural disaster with such pig-ignorant horses*** has no humanity of his own. Never comment on my site again–just content yourself with writing anti-Semitic bile against “Zionists” (read “Jews”) on that hate site which is your blog, you pitiful excuse for a human being. Any further comments you make here will be deleted–I don’t need to make my bandwidth available to halfwits like you. Nor do I need to suffer through reading the stupid and illiterate remarks of a lobotomized cockroach who thinks that he is fooling anyone with pretensions to “humanity,” while writing trash that would only appeal to the Neanderthals of Aryan Nation.
    I trust that is clear enough, Faramin, although, I suppose there remains the possibility that your two brain cells can’t even hope to process what I’m telling you.
    Posted by: Pejman Yousefzadeh at December 26, 2003 11:11 PM” The full exchange may be read here: http://www.pejmanesque.com/archives/005355.html
    If anyone doubts this is OUR Faramin, all you have to do is click on his name and you will arrive directly at his own site: humanfirstthenproudiranian.blogspot.com
    I would not be so tolerant as JJ. On the other hand, that is to his credit and why I read this blog.
    If Faramin chooses to google me I hope at least he’ll spell my name right. Failing that, may he monotonously repeat ‘Eillen’ is stupid in his Canadian cave until he literally turns blue.

  91. BoghRD Avatar

    Sweden…
    He is referencing a toothless nation which remained ‘neutral’ in WWII and is now a leading light in the moral reletivism of Europe. The ‘neutral’ is in quotes because they had (were forced into) strong economic and resource ties with Nazi Germany. They were not neutral from a position of strength – as one might argue in Switzerland’s case. They were weak and could have been overrun in a month by Germany if they hadn’t complied… Norway fought. Finland fought. Sweden signed treaties and sent important resources like iron ore to the Nazis. They were serfs.
    Sweden is the soft underbelly bin Laden expected the United States to be. They will not defend themselves because they cannot.
    Question 1: Who among us want to be permitted to survive?
    Question 2: If this is an obscure warning to Sweden, and Oslo is hit, do we jump to aid another emasculated Euroweenie? Remember, the vaunted armies of Islam don’t attack the strong in their jihads…

  92. Faramin Avatar

    “Hit and Run” Eileen,
    I call you hit and Run Eillen, because you say something and then you run. You have no courage to back your claims with facts. You have failed again and again to bring ONE example were I said I hated Americans, or I hated Jews, where I advocated violence. ONE EXAMPLE. But you also don’t have the courage to apologize. THAT MEANS HAVING A LOW LIFE.
    Unlike you, I can’s be indifferent to see people suffer. No matter who they are, American, Iraqi or anybody else. That makes me morrally (not to mention intelligently) way superior to you who have nothing to say but bullshit. You are just determined to exit humanity. Not to worry, you are almsot at the gate.
    You brought a quote from Yousefzadeh. Well, I can bring quotes from some Americans who say similar things to other Americans. What does it prove in your little mind?
    There are jerk and idiot Americans and there are good and intelligent Americans.
    There are jerk and idiots Iranians and there are good and intelligent Iranians.
    Now which one is which? Is subject to interpretation.
    Got it? I don’t think you do.
    Now, did I make you angry again? Good! go tell FBI again that “Faramin is bad. He made me cry”.
    As I said many times, poor you.

  93. Franky Avatar

    Mark,
    Thanks for proving my point, loudly and stupidly.
    Yehudit, I think you’re rationalizing Bush’s obvious failure to catch Bin Laden, saying that he’s not that important. Yes he is that important because he oversaw the attack – whatever else we do, we get the people directly and indirectly involved in that attack. That’s not to be negotiated, that’s not to be whittled down and forgotten, or swept under the carpet because we invaded the wrong country – you capture or kill that man Bin Laden for what he did.
    And I thought the definition of chutpaz was a man who murdered his parents pleading mercy with the court because he’s an orphan – it turns out it is using the mess that Iraq is today as a justification for our invasion when we were the ones who turned it in to this mess of bombings and random death.
    Do you finally see that there is no way out of Iraq: the more force we use, the more we are hated by everyone there, which consequently swells the ranks of the insurgency. The less force we use, the more that is taken as weakness by the many, many disparate groups operating against us there.
    I’m sorry to make the Vietnam analogy, but that was what our government wrestled with in the final years, probably from about 68 onwards. There is no solution, but to get out, and try and help from abroad.

  94. Faramin Avatar

    Franky,
    One solution which is not easy to achieve of course, is to set up a time table that would indicate the US forces will be completely out by such date (in reasonably near future) and in that timetable to indicate the gradual replacement of the US forces by International forces lead by the UN, yes UN. Meanwhile work out a plan, under the direction of the UN, for democratic and widespread election that would seeks votes from all over the country, not just a show like what is planned now for January that only stable parts of the country can participate. Un will bring mush less resntment as it will not be seen as occupier and thus it will not hurt the pride of the currently occupied people.
    It will still be hard. The mess that Bu$hCo has made is a big mess, but there must be a reasonable way out of this to avoid further killing of Iraqis on top the already killed 100,000 civilians as well as the US soldiers who mostly happen to be from the poor and low income American families.

  95. BoghRD Avatar

    Faramin,
    Pacifism directly led to the death of about 50 million people in World War II. Saddam and the Taliban needed just a little more technical help and just a little more time to get their numbers up

  96. Eileen Avatar

    Yeah, Faramin is bad.
    “You are just determined to exit humanity. Not to worry, you are almsot at the gate.”
    Hey Guys, if you don’t hear from me again….please contact the FBI/CIA and etc.
    I am so very worried. Not.

  97. Franky Avatar

    I think the UN will undercut much of the insurgency, that currently coming from Iraqis who are rebelling against an occupying force (although it’s possible they’ll get tired of the UN all the same – whereever the UN are, the troops appear to outstay their welcome pretty fast). But what the UN cannot do is oppose the hardcore jihadists – they will not have the authority to take them on (nor the ability from all recent shows of force by UN) as they will need to do, and these jihadists will continue to fight and fight hard.
    Of course, the different ethnic groups may take advatnage of the UN to run wild, begin persecuting each other, such as reports of Kurds to Arabs and Turkmen, Shi’ites to Sunnis, Sunnis to Shi’ites, etc. etc.
    I honestly see no solution to that basketcase.
    I’m not sure about that figure of 100,000, but what was telling when it was reported yesterday was that neither the US or UK had an alternative figure – it just obviously wasn’t considered important enough to calculate how many Iraqis have died. Jack Straw even pointed reporters to Iraqi Body Count website.

  98. Eileen Avatar

    Jeff,
    If you allow Franky/Faramin to speak back and forth to each other/himself…….
    The dialogue gets a little skewed. As I pointed out at the beginning of this thread, Faramin is known for taking on ‘aliases’. Now he’s talking to himself again, spinning his web. But of course he gets caught in his own web.
    Your blog is reputable, consistent and honest. You ARE tolerant. I’m sure this bleep will only be a pebble in the road.

  99. Franky Avatar

    Be quiet, Eileen, the adults are talking. Do you really enjoy goading people in to reacting with fury to you? How pathetic is that as an existence? Got nothing better to do than bring down an entire thread to your level?

  100. BoghRD Avatar

    Faramin,
    Who provides the military, logistics, and funding for UN operations?
    Hhhhmmmm, gota think about that one.
    Do you realize that your solution is identical to Senator Kerry’s Vietnam solution? Timetables are dangerous – especially if the opposition knows the numbers. If we set a timetable for bailing out of Iraq, and Afghanistan, and thus the Middle East as a whole, could President Kerry ask a GI to be the last man to die for a glorious retreat behind fortress America? I can just see the Marine Corps recruiting commercials now. Without a cause you will have no capability.
    Why do you think that countries with no military capability, no economic growth, and a big fat whining populace will do any hard lifting?
    If the use of force is never valid, we should outlaw the use of force – it’s been tried at least once before… Didn

  101. Eileen Avatar

    Oh, and Franky?
    It was pointed out a week or so ago that you’re Canadian. What’s with this “we” and “our government” stuff?
    And your continued use of 100,000 dead Iranians is SO Faramin. Right, Faramin?
    I smell another rat.

  102. Derek Avatar

    “The Bush campaign is trying to use the OBL tape to slap the Kerry campaign around, knock them off their stride, and argue that for Kerry now even to mention anything about the president’s failure to bag bin Laden is the height of shamefulness.”
    —Jeff Jarvis POV on the tape sounds very familiar….Bush had 100% US support to capture this POS and……..spent it elsewhere. Vote Kerry.
    BTW Jarvis. Respond to to some of these emails. You’re starting to remind me of the Old Media…..Lame.

  103. carsonfire Avatar

    re: zed jackson and jeff jarvis’ exchange, above.
    I can understand JJ wanting to be reasonable and even-handed about this, but Moore is of course the man who said that OBL hit the wrong people. For many of us in the center and the right, it’s reeeeally difficult to see much diff between a man who thinks that all Americans should be killed and a man who suggests that it’s OK as long as you’re targeting rich white conservatives (which I presume is what he means by hitting the *right* people).
    For those of you who are still amazed that we on the right and the center can be so oafish as to draw these comparisons, imagine if at the height of WWII, an American political party, in conjunction with loud voices out of Hollywood, and the Nazi party were daily using the same rhetoric, and seemingly pursuing the same goals. Various members of the left have, in fact, suggested that we deserve to lose. Some elected Democratic representatives have even praised OBL as our better.
    To say these things is not frivolous or in fun; in reference to war, hoping that your own side “loses” means that you’re hoping that your own soldiers (that you claim to support) get killed, maimed, and defeated.
    This would be a non-issue if the Democratic party regarded Moore as a fringe nutcase, which is what he is. But he has been roundly embraced by its leadership and lionized at the convention that launched the presidential bid of the man who know claims that he will win that war; he sat in a place of honor with an ex-president; he has been quoted by the candidate, his theories and accusations parroted at the national level. And it is this elevation of Moore that keeps him in our thoughts, and not some weird, kooky paranoid fixation, as somebody else suggested. The Democratic party aren’t just tolerating Moore; they have allowed him to become an official spokesman. I have yet to hear anyone of major consequence in the party repudiate him. Most importantly, has Kerry? No — again, Kerry has done nothing but borrow from F9/11.
    I am not posting this to create more unpleasantness in this thread, but to explain how deeply this affects many of us. As much as I admire JJ, I am surprised that reasonable people like him can see Kerry so closely aligning himself with Moore and his subgroup of leftists, and yet still believe that he will somehow be hawkish on international terrorism when in office. Who is he more likely to be lying to? Those who are going to depend on him to be a strong leader against terrorism, or people who share the same anti-war philosophy he’s demonstrated throughout most of his adult life?
    The minute “President Kerry” is in office, Michael Moore *and* OBL have won. I’m sorry, but that’s just the way I see it.

  104. HA Avatar

    carsonfire,
    This would be a non-issue if the Democratic party regarded Moore as a fringe nutcase, which is what he is.
    Good comment overall, but this point is incorrect. Michael Moore and his ilk are not the FRINGE. They are the VANGUARD of the extreme left that has taken over the Democratic Party. The Democrats have rehabilitated Jimmy Carter during this election, and Carter gave Moore a place of honor at the Democratic convention. The Democrts are the party of Michael Moore.
    This country is in deep trouble if John Kerry wins.

  105. mary Avatar

    Be quiet, Franky, the grownups are talking. When I say grownups, I mean the Americans

  106. Faramin Avatar

    Eileen,
    You really are weak in comprehension, aren’t you?When I say you are exiting humanity, I am not saying that you exiting life. Oh, I have translate everything for you. You’ll live but just as like a goat.
    RoghRD,
    As I said, this is not an easy issue. But the importance of a timetable is that it can ease the harsh feelings of the Iraqi insurgancies. By having such time table, they can see the end of occupation. They will see that the occupation will soon end and replaced by the presence of a more acceptable force that can act as mediator.
    I wouldn’t call getting out of Iraq, “bailing out”. It will only be “getting out”. Never underestimate the resistance to occupation from locals. I don’t think it will end as long as there is occupation and the result? More Iraqi dead and more American soldiers dead.

  107. Faramin Avatar

    BTW RoghRD,
    I was surprised too on the number of 100,000 dead Iraqis. But according to the report, the number is not all due to violence. The majority are though. The repoort calls this number as war and invasion related deaths. The report is issued by American health exprets and is published in an American medical journal.
    You can read about the report here
    and the actual report in pdf format here.

  108. Kat Avatar

    Faramin–the 100,000 has been proven a LIE—do you understand English or do you just believe what you want–the jihadi mumbo jumbo. R—-e—-a—d s—-l—o—w—l—–y–the 100,000 figure is a lie–it has been debunked. Do you understand what debunked means?

  109. Faramin Avatar

    Instead of empty and unsubstantiated claims and words Kat, as usual, back up your claim that the number is a lie. I know it is hard for you to change habit, but hey, if you want to get back 1% of the credibility you lost long time ago, you’ve got to work hard for it. Who says it is a lie and why is it said that it is a lie? Why would those American health experts lie and overstate the number that is more damaging to the image of their country? To any intelligent person, it is not enough only to say “it’s lie”. Understand? I don’t think so.
    I will be more than happy to see the number untrue or lie, after all, it would mean fewer people than thought have been killed. I less dead, I less damage to humanity.

  110. Faramin Avatar

    My opologees. It should read:
    1 less dead, 1 less damage to humanity.

  111. mary Avatar

    back up your claim that the number is a lie
    Oh, come on Faramin – you keep telling us that you know so much more than we do. Statistical interpretation must be child’s play for a mind like yours!
    Obviously you can spot the inconsistencies in this paragraph:
    “The risk of death was estimated to be 2.5-fold (95% CI 1.6-4.2) higher after the invasion when compared with the preinvasion period. Two-thirds of all violent deaths were reported in one cluster in the city of Falluja. If we exclude the Falluja data, the risk of death is 1.5-fold (1.1-2.3) higher after the invasion. We estimate that 98000 more deaths than expected (8000-194000) happened after the invasion outside of Falluja and far more if the outlier Falluja cluster is included.”
    I’ll bet it’ll take you about one second to assimilate a detailed technical analysis and debunking (or support) of this particular methodology.
    We’re waiting..

  112. Franky Avatar

    Mary,
    “Yes, I know the phrase

  113. mary Avatar

    Because you have no idea about how to get to it, you simply shout it out and wave it high as a slogan. “Make Iraq Democratic” as if we just open a ballot office and print some ballot papers and that’s it. I’m assuming you’ve never travelled in countries where democracy is not available. I’m assuming you’ve never travelled in clan-based societies or ethnically-riven societies or societies where large numbers of people stand by polling stations with machine guns telling everyone who goes in that they know how they’re going to vote.
    I don

  114. Faramin Avatar

    Mary,
    For one second, I thought you really had something to say, until I realized that you had stolen “the” piece from another site in which they prosumably found inconsistancy in the study. The discussion is whether the report is a “lie” as has been claimed by others here. Inconsistency, even if proven, doesn’t make an argument a “lie”. I bet, you don’t even know what the quote you took from somewhere else is talking about. However, I am gald that at least this time you attempted to have an intelligent converstion, however borrowed from somewhere else.
    The part you convenietly decided to leave out though, is what came right after what you quoted in the same paragraph:
    …The major causes of death before the invasion were myocardial infarction, cerebrovascular accidents, and other chronic disorders whereas after the invasion violence was the primary cause of death. Violent deaths were widespread, reported in 15 of 33 clusters, and were mainly attributed to coalition forces. Most individuals reportedly killed by coalition forces were women and children. The risk of death from violence in the period after the invasion was 58 times higher (95% CI 8.1-419) than in the period before the war.”
    Most of the argument in the site that highlited that quote for you to use, is about timing of the report. And it calls it politicaly motivated just before the elections, not the statistics itself. Well, why not? If “re”election of Bush means another few hundred thousands killed, why not attempt to stop him from getting elected. After all, everything in the US politics are based on tricks. When Karl Rove can bring up the Osama tape to divert attention from 350 tonnes of missing explosives, why bunch of (American)people who obviously care about human lives not use the same tactic? With a more humane intention, of course.
    The site that prosumably discredits the report admits that Lancet is one the two leading medical journals in the world. Well, It will take more than hredric to discredit the stats published on that publication, Don’t you think?
    Now, back to the report.
    I want to also draw you attention to what was said about the study by those who conducted it:
    Our results need further verification and should lead to changes to reduce non-combatant deaths from air strikes,” Roberts added in the study.
    This is of course to modify, not to significantly change, the results.
    95% confidence level, despite what your hero author says, IS considerable. Beside, what the author who tried to discredit the report says, is that there aren’t enough evidence and we don’t know the accurate number. Well, nobody is caliming to have accurate number (as was said before). You have to remember, the data were collected in Iraq, in a country where there is a wide spread war going on. You simply cannot find extremly accurate results.
    BTW, the author keeps saying that relative ratio less than three is insignificant, but he doesn’t touch the report where it says:
    The risk of death from violence in the period after the invasion was 58 times higher (95% CI 8.1-419) than in the period before the war.
    Just note the relative ratio of 8.1-419.
    Also, your author leaves out Fallujah in his look at the statistics, but he admits that the mortality rate has been extremly high in Fallujah. Fallujans don’t count enough to be included in his look at the statsitics?
    When thinking of Falluja, don’t think of a place on Mars. It is a CITY in which people used to have their ordinary lives, just like you and me.
    I am not a statistician, but know enough to get the loope holes in the one page analysis of a eight page report published in a credible paper.

  115. Faramin Avatar

    Franky,
    Have you got any appology from Eileen yet? She keeps saying Franky and Faramin are the same, and both are in Canada. Well, may be she is right. Your name starts with the letter F and mine too. That must be enough for this “genious” to figure we are the same.

  116. mary Avatar

    I don

  117. Faramin Avatar

    Mary,
    This is what I said:
    Inconsistency, even if proven, doesn’t make an argument a “lie”.
    And this is what you replied to discredit what I said:
    One thing I do know

  118. Franky Avatar

    Faramin,
    I don’t expect apologies from the flies that annoy me as I work either.
    Mary,
    So the plan is now to invade every country in the middle east? I would be interested to know how we’re going to do this seeing as we’re groaning under the strain of this Iraqi adventure.
    Further, you provide no arguments about how democracy will be instituted in Iraq, but like a pyramid scheme, simply plot out the next target.
    Maybe I’m wrong and in five years a miracolous rose will be borne forth from this sewer, but I certainly don’t see any reason for optimisim. Looking around the world, I’m not hopeful about how other regimes will now view this new precedent for war: pre-emptive strikes, based on deliberately-distorted bogus intelligence. How exactly will we complain when China or Russia does something similar? Yeah, we sought of lost the moral high ground on that one – you can talk about freeing the Iraqis all you want, but people in these governments (and in fact, the oil industry) know that’s for the birds.
    The fact is that the middle east is a huge mix, but we picked the one country that had the least to do with terrorism. Tell me why that is? And please don’t tell me Dick Cheney cares about about the Iraqis.
    A commentator here sometime ago was honest about the reason for Iraq: someone had to get hit after 9/11 and Iraq pulled the short straw. I think that’s absolutely amoral, if not immoral, but at least it was honest.

  119. mary Avatar

    Maybe I’m wrong and in five years a miracolous rose will be borne forth from this sewer, but I certainly don’t see any reason for optimisim. Looking around the world, I’m not hopeful about how other regimes will now view this new precedent for war: pre-emptive strikes, based on deliberately-distorted bogus intelligence. How exactly will we complain when China or Russia does something similar?
    They have done similar things in the past and they will do similar things in the future, no matter what we do.
    That’s is exactly why a US pilot can bomb the city so easily.
    If Americans are so heartless, why do you think we’d care about your inflated casualty counts?
    Thanks for illustrating the concept of infantile leftism. Your statistics are bogus and you have no alternatives and no solutions to offer, just more complaints.
    Islamists, financed by Wahhabi oil money, have slaugtered millions of innocent civilians in the course of their imperialist jihad. They’re killing millions of black Sudanese, hundreds of Thai buddhists, thousands of Americans, Iraqis, and non-Wahhabi muslims, they’re profiting from this mass slaughter, they’ve been doing this for decades and your solution is…?
    I know – more complaints! Let’s hear them…
    [Just in case you’re wondering – the nihilsm of the infantile left and their effect on the Democrats is one of the reasons I could never vote for Kerry. Thanks for reaffirming my choice]

  120. Faramin Avatar

    Mary,
    If Americans are so heartless, why do you think we’d care about your inflated casualty counts?
    Who says that? No, Americans are not heartless. Being heartless or not doesn’t have anything to do with being American or not. You are an American, yes, but you are one of those who practically doesn’t feel what it feels to lose family members in war. 1 death is too many, not to mention 100,000. You and your type whose patriotism don’t let them to act as responsible human beings, are the ones who are heartless. But at the same time, there are millions of Americans who suffer from being the compatriots of people like you and the “genious” Kat and “ultra genious” Eileen. I am sure those doctors who cared enough about the Iraqi victims to at least try to get some numbers together, are the ones who suffer the most for being associated with those whose only pride is being American and nothing else. THAT IS DISGUSTING.
    I am sure, you will vote for Bush and his criminal gang. But don’t forget, you can fool others, but you cannot fool yourself. Every single innocent child who will be killed by your liar, corporate puppet and crimianl leader and his co-criminals, is also killed by your hands. It might take some time for you to realize, but you will eventually learn what you have done and then you will have to live with the guilt of it as long as you live.

  121. Kat Avatar

    Here’s a quote from Safia Al Souhail, an Iraqi citizen, and advocacy director of the International Alliance for Justice:
    “Iraq under Saddam’s regime has become a land of hopelessness, sadness and fear. A country where people are ethnically cleansed; prisoners are tortured in more than 300 prisons in Iraq. Rape is systematic … congenital malformation, birth defects, infertility, cancer and various disorders are the results of Saddam’s gassing of his own people … the killing and torturing of husbands in front of their wives and children … Iraq under Saddam has become a hell and a museum of crimes.”
    The official State Department report continues: “Under Saddam Hussein’s orders, the security apparatus in Iraq routinely and systematically tortures its citizens. Beatings, rape, breaking of limbs and denial of food and water are commonplace in Iraqi detention centers. Saddam Hussein’s regime has also invented unique and horrific methods of torture including electric shocks to a male’s genitals, pulling out fingernails, suspending individuals from rotating ceiling fans, dripping acid on a victim’s skin, gouging out eyes, and burning victims with a hot iron or blowtorch.”
    Yes, Franky, it was immoral to remove this sainted murderer you worship. The Iraqi people deserve better–as did the people upon whom Hitler used many of the same practises.
    If you want to talk about immoral, take up the cause of the Sudan–the death toll is much higher than in Iraq–but I guess you can accept a genocide to a war.
    I am sure, you will vote for Kerry and his criminal gang. But don’t forget, you can fool others, but you cannot fool yourself. Every single innocent child who will be killed by your liar, terrorist puppet and crimianl leader and his co-criminals, is also killed by your hands. It might take some time for you to realize, but you will eventually learn what you have done and then you will have to live with the guilt of it as long as you live. When you support a terrorist, you are one.
    And I’m sick of your America bashing you terrorist asskisser. Go live in those God forsaken countries if you think everything is so swell there. A freaking terrorist preaching morals–that’s rich.

  122. Faramin Avatar

    Kat,
    I am sure, you will vote for Kerry and his criminal gang. But don’t forget, you can fool others, but you cannot fool yourself. Every single innocent child who will be killed by your liar, terrorist puppet and crimianl leader and his co-criminals, is also killed by your hands. It might take some time for you to realize, but you will eventually learn what you have done and then you will have to live with the guilt of it as long as you live.
    Wow, I’m impressed Kat. The method, not the content, in “your” above comment is brilliant. May be I was wrong about you. May be you are not as dumb as I thought you were after all…… . Oh, wait a minute, it’s a modified copy of what I said.

  123. Kat Avatar

    I would have spelled criminal correctly, had I not used your words.
    And I have been called dumb by a dumb Iranian Canadian terrorist for the last time–I don’t need to listen to a bag of festered farts blowing hot air. If you can, unf–k yourself.
    Jeff, I apologize . I will avoid this Saddamite in the future.

  124. Faramin Avatar

    …Whatever Kat,
    – What has been said about Saddam is not hard to believe. He was a murderer even when he was a friend to Rumsfeld in 1984. Even when he was having a chemical attack on Iranian soldiers. Even when he was having chemical attacks on Iraqi Kurds. But he wasn’t alone. There was a US/Iraqi alliance on the crimes Saddam committed.
    But what about the US? The US has been the mother of torture in the world. Recently, Amnesty International issued a full report on the U.S. exports of Shackles and Electro-Shock technology to the tune of $20 million worth.
    Forget about hredrics and bullsh*ts claiming US is for democracy. Facts point at completely different version of the story than what the American public have been forced to believe.

  125. mary Avatar

    you are one of those who practically doesn’t feel what it feels to lose family members in war
    again, you don

  126. Faramin Avatar

    Histerical? Did you see your like-minded, Kat’s last racist “comment”? Have you re-read your own initial comments when responding to my comments? Have you re-read your like-minded Eileen’s comments? There is nothing hesterical in what I say Mary, AND YOU KNOW THAT. It is not me who shows hesterical rages.
    I have kept my calm even when I was repeatedly accused of being what was the product of the twisted imaginations. I only received accusations instead of responses to my points. I have kept my calm and responded to whatever that I was asked (if in a civilized manner) to respond. You were the one who showed plenty of short comings accupmanied with screams and shouts, not me. Don’t forget, I am not even communicating in my own language in the discussions. But yet, it is clearly you and your ilk who lose in these discussions. And it just leaves you bitter.
    You just don’t have enough to respond to my arguments, as simple as that otherwise, there has been plenty to respond to.

  127. Eileen Avatar

    Faramin calls me a goat; Franky calls me flies in short order. Faramin calls me crazy; then Franky immediately also calls me crazy in another recent thread.
    As I looked at the archives for this site, I noticed “Penny”, who was writing to “Franky” on behalf of Faramin:
    “Franky – Don’t take the same path Faramin took by trying to convince these self-centred creatures of the obvious. Waste of time. Really.They kept attacking the guy by accusing him of being a Muslim terrorist, while he kept saying he didn’t even consider himself a Muslim. Really, what did he say that he was accused of being a terrorist? How many times same thing should be repeated? For god sake, he wasn’t even communicating in his native language, but he could be well understood by anybody whose mind wasn’t so darkly clauded but these guys failed so many time. Well, may be “twisted imagination” that he was talking about wasn’t that off after all.
    Posted by Penny at May 3, 2004 03:32 PM”
    Immediately followed by Faramin….
    “Just a short note:
    Thank you Franky and thank you Penny!”
    Now who does that Penny sound like, hmmmmm? I’ve only been around here about a month and I’ve heard Faramin spout ‘her’ remarks almost verbatim.
    Must be nice to have a cast of ‘characters’ to call upon for support in spewing.
    Faramin and his ‘gang’ have been at it around here for quite some time. I don’t plan to spend any more time on the flies and goat crew.
    I do wonder, though, exactly how many hotmail addresses Faramin has for his cast of characters.
    Oh, and here are the words of another blogger who banned Faramin from her site:
    “I just wanted to rescue this bit of news from Jeff Jarvis

  128. Eileen Avatar

    Well, this is the one time I have to thank Faramin… for getting his last post in right before mine. Perfect timing, Faramin.
    Do the phrases ‘twisted imagination’ and ‘not even speaking in his own language’ sound familiar?
    There really is an Allah, whether Faramin says he’s Muslim or not.
    LOLOLOL

  129. Franky Avatar

    Faramin,
    You got banned from Andrea’s site? What did you not donate repeatedly to her site where all she talks about is how she can’t get a proper job?Man, wear that like a badge of honor!

  130. Faramin Avatar

    Franky,
    It sounds like 007 movie with 007 detective being an idiot.
    I don’t even know who Andrea is. At least, I don’t remember even commenting on a site that is owned by a person named Andrea. You would think it would be easy to remember a site whose owner’s has banned you, not?
    There is no need to bann me from any site. If I am asked by the owner not to comment, I won’t.
    “tiwsted imagination”, “not using own language” are the grounds to say Faramin and other names are the same? How more idiot one can get! Imagine how much time she has spent as a “detective” just to prove I am writing under different names.
    Eileen,
    Get a life!
    It appears that you’ve had a history of cheating and that’s why you look at everybody from your own eyes. There is no reason for me to be anybody other than Faramin. By only being myself, Faramin, I can make many look stupid anyway, as I’ve done with you. You are just bitter, because I am smarter than you are. Ah, it’s not a big deal. Anybody can be smarter than you.
    If you come up with stories like these in a real world and as a detective, you will be fired right a way.
    BTW, you really have nothing to say about the content of comments, do you?

  131. Blueprint Avatar

    Very pretty.
    Patriotism would be served by all of the above posts?
    ‘Kerry and his gang of criminals’ served this country in many ways, none of them related to oil interests that are now killing off people of a darker complexion in the middle east.
    If this gets under your skin, then you need counseling.

  132. kc n dc Avatar

    jeff it seems like your not having supported Clark is indicative of your stupidity in leaning toward bush in the war on terra.
    maybe you should actually read more on Clark and his views, as he knows much more than you possibly ever could about foreign policy and military issues.

  133. Faramin Avatar

    Oh I forgot Eileen,
    Well, this is the one time I have to thank Faramin… for getting his last post in right before mine. Perfect timing, Faramin.
    Didn’t I say you are not very smart? How can I get my last comment BEFORE yours? In fact YOU got your comment AFTER mine, not I before yours. See the logic? Well, I don’t think you are able to.
    However, if it made you happy, I’m glad. After all, after a constant bitterness of humiliation, you needed some laughing break.