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The stubborn vs. the flopper

17 comments on The stubborn vs. the flopper

The stubborn vs. the flopper

: Nick Denton is back blogging about politics after at least a decade away. He says what Kerry should have said last night:

John Kerry has to make voters see, in place of steadfastness, the president’s stubborness….

That was a promising start, for Kerry; he’s capable of drawing a little blood. But where was the kill? Kerry needs to affix a title to the president — George The Stubborn, say it! — as firmly as the Republicans have defined the Democratic challenger as a flip-flopper. And — it’s too late, too false, for Kerry to compete with the president in the steadfastness stakes — Kerry needs to make flip-flopping sound patriotic. Flip-flopping as American as burger-flipping. Kerry needs a narrative.

How’s this? “The president says I’ve changed my mind on Iraq. Well, yes. Blind certainty is fine for Soviet ideologues, and Islamic fanatics, but I am an American. I believe that pragmatism is the American genius. This country was built by individuals who found themselves on an unfamiliar continent, in a promised land that wasn’t always what they’d been promised.”

17 responses to “The stubborn vs. the flopper”

  1. brian Avatar
    brian

    hey, that is what I said a week ago at my blog: greatideawow.blogspot.com.

  2. Frank Martin Avatar
    Frank Martin

    Yeah, but when you say it with the french accent, it doesnt sound so authentic.

  3. Mitch H. Avatar
    Mitch H.

    “Americans have always been weak. The stubborn ones stayed where they were born, and dug in, and did what was necessary where they had always been. Americans? Blown with every breath, a cloud of dandelion seeds, suspended in the fickle breezes, taken where-ever fate and the direction of the wind might drive them. Americans are restless, rootless, unbound by gravity, principle or conviction. Americans can be *driven*.”
    No, I don’t think I’ll buy into that particular narrative, if you don’t mind.

  4. ghostcat Avatar
    ghostcat

    A clear narrative would be Kerry’s doom. His only hope is to persist as a chameleon.

  5. Michael Avatar
    Michael

    “…Blind certainty is fine for Soviet ideologues, and Islamic fanatics, but I am an American. I believe that pragmatism is the American genius.”
    This MUST be the message – I can’t believe they’ve been sitting back and just taking the “flip/flop” chatter without this simple, clear, and valid retort. It doesn’t mean you’re indecisive – it means you’re open to debate, new information, persuasion, negotiation, etc. All good qualities in a leader.

  6. Frank Martin Avatar
    Frank Martin

    Kerrys job for the past 20 years has been to do what he did last night. talk, followed by more talk, followed by a polite photo op. He’s good at it, and doing it doesnt have any consequences, if it did, he would have been run out of town on a rail a long time ago because of his long standing tradition of being on the losing side of history in nearly every opportunity that has been provided during his tenure as a Senator.
    For all the skill of talking that Kerry has honed over the past 20 years in the forge of the senate floor, I found Kerry to be almost as incomprehensible as Bush. It’s the next day, and I’ve read the transcripts twice, and I’ll be damned if I can figure out what the hell Kerry is talking about.
    Bush didnt say very much, and what he did say he didnt say well. If I wanted a company spokesman for a President, Kerry would have a shot. However, these are serious times, and serious times aren’t times for talk, they are times for action.
    I’d give anything for Bush to be able to inspire with a good speech and stagecraft, but Im not willing to trade a man of action for a man of words at this stage in the Jihadi War. Our problem in the West isn’t that we dont sound good to the other countries of the world, its that for too long we have neglected to take action.
    Kerrys action plan is a “summit”.Wheeee! doesnt that make your heart swell! I’m old enough to remember decades of “summits”, and not a damn thing ever changed in the world as a result. Once a President took action to end the Soviet Union rather than try to get along with it, the world changed and it changed for the better.
    Take Action Now. This is what I want from a president.

  7. Jim Avatar
    Jim

    Gallup/CBS released their post debate poll, but the MSM only zeroed in on one category — the debate. Actually in the categories more important for re-election, Bush is doing well. Here are the poll findings which actually favor Bush:
    Who won the dabate?
    Bush 37%
    Kerry 53 %
    Who would handle the Iraq situation better?
    Bush 54%
    Kerry 43%
    Who do you trust more to handle the Commander-in-Chief job?
    Bush 54%
    Kerry 44%
    Who demonstrated they were tough enough for the job?
    Bush 54%
    Kerry 37%
    Who expressed himself more clearly?
    Bush 32%
    Kerry 60%
    Had a good understanding of the issues?
    Bush 41%
    Kerry 41%
    Agreed with you on more issues?
    Bush 49%
    Kerry 46%
    Was more believable?
    Bush 50%
    Kerry 45%
    Was more likable?
    Bush 48%
    Kerry 41%
    http://www.gallup.com/poll/content/?ci=13237
    Jim Kouri

  8. ghostcat Avatar
    ghostcat

    Note especially the numbers on Tuf Enuf.

  9. Michael Avatar
    Michael

    Since when does toughness need to be a measure of qualification for the presidency? These polls are laughable – there are no quantifiable measures or standards for “tough enough” or “believable”….. you might get 60% of a group to all say that someone is “tough” – but they all have a widely different conception fo what “toughness” is….what’s the point??

  10. Reid Avatar
    Reid

    “Since when does toughness need to be a measure of qualification for the presidency?”
    Since 9-11-2001. Have you forgotten?

  11. Franky Avatar
    Franky

    Reid,
    Yawn.
    I’ll tell you what: Why don’t you assume I don’t believe Bush is Hitler, and you can pay your critics the common decency that they weren’t any less effected by 9/11 than you were.

  12. mistercalm Avatar
    mistercalm

    Frankly,
    Yawn.
    Since the reality of 9-11 is contrary to the political agenda you’ve held since 9-10, why don’t you pay your critics the common decency the admission that the world has changed and “toughness” is necessary in a CIC. If Clinton had displayed any toughness in 8 years, things might’ve been different. Reagon dropped the ball at a crucial time, too (the Khobar Towers), which was inconsistent for him. THAT’s the point about “stubborness”: not changing your position for politcal expediency. Kerry would like to portray the President’s “steadfastness” as a “foolish consistency”. I’d argue that Kerry has shown himself foolishly inconsistent. If we maintain the foolish consistency of the Clinton years then we, as a free people, may as well lock up shop and get out our prayer mats. Hell, even Mohammad was inconsistent: muslims used to pray to the west, toward Bethlehem, before it was politically expedient for him to change to prayer to the east, toward Mecca.

  13. John Avatar
    John

    Khobar Towers occurred under Clinton’s watch — Reagan’s mistake was not responding to the 1983 Beiruit barracks bombing that killed over 300 Marines. It happened almost concurrently with the U.S. invasion of Grenada, so it may have been that the Reagan people only wanted to do one action at a time and figured as big a tragedy as the latter was, getting U.S. combat troops into action in the Middle East was too big a risk given the then-current world situation.
    Hindsight shows that was a major mistake on their part, since it was the first step in embolding the Islamic terrorist with the idea that America wouldn’t fight back if attacked, and that’s where Kerry’s comments Thursday about “global tests” and seeking U.N. support would cause potential problems in a future Kerry administration. Even if U.S. interests are attacked abroad (outside of Iraq and/or Afghanistan) with a minimal loss of life, the U.S. has to respond to avoid starting the same cycle over again that began with Beiruit 21 years ago.
    Seeking global approval and some sort of Sally Field-like “You like me, you really like me!” feeling of affirmation from the U.N. Security Council is not what being president is about. New York City had the same problem with the affable-but-ineffecutal David Dinkins vs. Rudy Giuliani mayoral races. Dinkins was a nice guy who wanted to be liked, and New York elected him over Giuliani in 1989. The street toughs and the special interests then ran al over him in the next four years, which led voters to elect Rudy, even though he had and displayed the reputation of a mean SOB (something that has been obscured by his actions during and after 9-11) and actually accomplished most of what he set out to do.
    Sometimes you need someone in office who doesn’t care if other people think their actions ruffle some feathers. That’s the attitude Kerry will have to show he has if he wants to win the election.

  14. Robert Brown Avatar
    Robert Brown

    I don’t think Kerry has “flip-flopped” at all due to new facts or better analysis.
    I think he has been staunchly anti-war and anti-military since his vietnam experience. He is perfectly happy to coexist with odeous regimes as long as they leave the US alone.
    He would have never invaded Iraq even if they had WMD (he voted against kicking them out of Kuwait). He voted to give Bush authority for the war bacause he knew he was running for president and thought he needed to appear “tough” after 9-11 to win the general election.
    Then, when it appeared that his party was about to nominate Howard Dean he voted against the appropriations for the war to signal the base of his party that he was really the anti-war candidate, just like Dean, but with a “chest full of medals” to fool the general electorate with.
    Today he is left trying to straddle the line between the 70% of his party who want out of Iraq NOW (where his heart lies), and the 30% who want to finish the job.
    That explains his talk of a timetable to “bring the troops home” and pledges to do what it takes to finish the job; his claim that the soldiers are not dieing for a lost cause in Iraq at the same time he claims Iraq “the wrong war at the wrong place at the wrong time”; his ridicule of the current coalition and the prime minister of Iraq and allowing his sister to undermine the Australian government based on their support of the US in Iraq, while at the same time calling for a broader coalition in Iraq.
    No, Kerry is the “stubborn” one. He looks like a “fip-flopper” as he tries to line up 51% of the voters.

  15. Reid Avatar
    Reid

    Robert – yes, you are right. It is his disingenuousness in attempting to hide the real John Kerry that makes him appear to flip-flop.
    John – yes, Khobar was on Clinton’s watch, as were the first WTC, the embassy in Dar es Salaam, the embassy in Nairobi, the CIA shooter, the millenium plot, and so forth. Cut Reagan some slack. We were eyeball-to-eyeball with the Soviet bear that the time and, all hell might have broken loose if we had landed significant troops in the ME.
    Franky – is that the best you’ve got? Yawn.

  16. Harry in Atlanta Avatar
    Harry in Atlanta

    “This country was built by individuals who found themselves on an unfamiliar continent, in a promised land that wasn’t always what they’d been promised.”
    What exactly does this mean? Who made promises to these people? Is Kerry saying that those poor souls who came to America for a ‘chance’ at a better life were dupes and were screwed over because they didn’t step off the boat into paradise?
    Good God please don’t anyone tell the Mexicans, Cubans, and Haitians this ain’t the promised land because they might stop risking their lives to come here and then John and Teresa Heinz-Kerry might lose their domestic help.

  17. Franky Avatar
    Franky

    “Since the reality of 9-11 is contrary to the political agenda you’ve held since 9-10”
    I don’t understand what you’re saying here. I changed my political agenda on 9-10? I had advance warnings of 9-11 and changed my beleifs accordingly? And, just wondering, how did you find out about my political agenda? Could you let me know what it is, because I’m not too sure my self.
    “If Clinton had displayed any toughness in 8 years, things might’ve been different.”
    Where was Bush’s famed toughness when he received the memo entitled “Bin Laden Determined to Strike in US