Issues2004: Election reform

Issues2004: Election reform

: Every time I scream and shout about protecting the First Amendment (and Howard Stern) against the repression of the FCC, a commenter or two whines that I don’t similarly defend free speech when it comes to federal election laws limiting contributions. I ignored them — first because it pisses them off (hey, a blogger has to have some fun) and second because I honestly don’t know what I think about election reform. It’s a one-hand/other-hand thing for me.

On the one hand, as an absolutist on free speech and the First Amendment, I agree with those commenters that free speech should extend to elections — of all activities.

On the other hand, I am concerned about the lobbyists and special-interest groups and now hate groups using their money to hijack elections.

On another hand, if we limit some people but then allow the Bloombergs and Corzines to come in and spend their wealth to get elected, then that is unfair to all of us who aren’t rich.

On yet another hand, I think it’s ridiculous that we individuals are limited on what we can spend on a candidate; it’s our country and our money, eh?

And on another hand, I wonder whether the limitations on candidate contributions are only channelling more money to fringe groups like the Swifties and MoveOn and thus only fueling the mudslinging and nastiness of this campaign.

Anybody have few extra hands?

In the end, I think we’re trying to approach this from the wrong end. We are trying to legislate ethics — with politicians, of all people. And it’s not going to work.

Election laws and the loopholes that magically appear in them only provide ethical cover for politicians, parties, and pressure groups to go ahead and game the system however they can. Hey, it’s not my fault, they say when caught with mud on their hands; I’m following the law.

So what we should be doing instead is pressuring the political parties to adopt their own voluntary standards for ethical campaigning and slamming those who don’t. Election reform should come from within the parties. They should limit their spending and refuse some contributions and those who don’t are only revealing themselves as slime.

Media — and citizens online — should monitor their financial behavior closely, for I still believe that everything should be transparent.

We also need to shorten the election schedule. This torture goes on way too long. We do need time to push the candidates and smoke out the bozos (read: Dean) but we don’t need this much time. It only adds to the bile and the bill.

At the same time, we need to reform the primary process, for it disenfranchises too many Americans from the selection of candidates.

And, finally, I agree with those who say it’s time to blow up the Electoral College, which also disenfranchises voters (see: 2000).

We need to rebuild the primary and election process around the principle of one person, one vote — and mean it. Then the candidates will have to campaign to all citizens and won’t be able to ignore those in “safe” states.

Finally, yes, I’ll agree that we need to respect the free-speech right of Americans to put their money where their votes are. On principle, I do have a problem with limiting what we can contribute. That’s why I’d prefer to see candidates and parties agree to limit on their own what they accept.

One more thing: Once upon a time, I might have argued that it was important to give candidates free airtime — on “our airwaves” — as a quid pro quo for the free spectrum we give broadcasters. But I’m not so hot on that idea today for two reasons: First, TV ads are turning into the most destructive bullets of campaigns and fringe groups. Second, the internet will overtake TV as an important medium for campaigning and it will offer more depth and diversity.

That’s what I say. What do you say? (Other Issues2004 posts here.)

61 responses to “Issues2004: Election reform”

  1. Ed Avatar

    Shouldn’t voters themselves be allowed to judge between campaign garbage and valid issues?
    Marketplace of ideas and all that?
    As long as there is transparency as to where all the money is coming from and going to, who cares?

  2. Jazz Avatar

    I’m afraid that free speech, if it is to be taken as more than an election year buzz phrase, has to be universally applied or it becomes nothing more than a red herring. Devious, dishonest, or even hateful advertisements from heavily biased PACs and 527s are certainly something many people would like to see go the way of the dinosaur. But who will pick and choose which can stay and which can go? It’s an impossible task, since whoever you allow to do the selecting is bound to have some level of bias themselves.
    I’ve written on this before in my own blog. It’s a hard question, but the fact is that you have to allow everyone, be they ever so hateful, to have their say or you lose the assurance that you will have your say as well.
    Yes, it’s completely unfair that that those with the most money get the loudest voice with the greatest potential impact. It’s also unfair that those with the most money can afford the “most justice” in our society, but you’d have to be fairly blind to think that wasn’t also true to some extent. The solution? None that I can see. If you are that motivated to speak more loudly than a 527 group you will have to go out and find like minded individuals and raise enough money to shout louder than they do.
    If you don’t let the KKK say what they want, you can’t know that Greenpeace will be able to say something next week. Do I like it? No. Do I accept it as a neccesary evil to ensure my own freedom of speech? Yes.

  3. Andy Freeman Avatar
    Andy Freeman

    Jarvis has yet to explain the difference between my barrel of ink and the NYTs.
    > On the other hand, I am concerned about the lobbyists and special-interest groups and now hate groups using their money to hijack elections.
    Like CBS?
    Hint – the NYT is a special interest group.

  4. B Avatar

    Just found your blog. Great stuff. As “Jazz” pointed out, free speech has to be ‘across the board’ to truly work. And politics being politics, people expect it to get nasty. If it were just bland facts and platforms, spoiled Americans would most likely show little interest….

  5. AlanC Avatar

    #1 Ed has it right.
    It’s not the amount of money or what speech it’s used for, it’s where the money comes from.
    Transparency of funding is the must have. If e.g. some political party gets millions of dollars from lawyers and then vetos tort reform, voters are smart enough to get the connection.

  6. Jazz Avatar

    Alan makes an excellent point. “Follow the money” is tried and true advice, and never more true than here. Asking for transparent disclosure of where all advertising originates does not in any way hamper the speaker’s ability to get their message out, but does provide the listener with a context for where the message is coming from.

  7. Dave Schuler Avatar

    Jeff, have you no mercy? Two Issues2004 posts in less than 24 hours. I’m still trying to drum up expert responders to your foreign policy post. ;-) May I ask a question? Observing that a) there’s no pending legislation (nor has there been since 2000) to abolish the Electoral College and b) I can’t think of a single argument against the Electoral College that doesn’t apply even more-so to the U. S. Senate, what’s your argument against the Electoral College? Would you also abolish the Senate? Why not direct democracy?

  8. Seppo Avatar

    Campaign finance reform is a perfect illustration of the law of unintended consequences. Limits create loopholes that will inevitably be exploited.
    The only acceptable solution that protects our free speech rights is total transparency, and trusting in the public to evalute ideas in their totality, including the context of who is paying.
    The electoral college is a stroke of genius, it has served to hold the union of states together. Those are features, not flaws, that require candidates to appeal to constituencies in states large, small, urban, and rural.
    Unintended consequences result from “reforms” that damage the political parties and restrict them, the US has a stable political system because it has evolved a two party system where the debates within the parties are as important as the debates between them. Again, transparency of fund flows gives the public the information they need to evaluate the parties and introduce self-correcting feedback.

  9. TMH Avatar

    These proposals seems like a set of suggestions which interested parties might follow (hey, you Republicans! Refuse some contributions or reveal yourselves as slime!), with a whopping constitutional change kind of slipped in as an afterthought. If you want three votes, move to Wyoming already.
    Saying that Americans are “disenfranchised” from the primary process is simply an oxymoron, since they have no right of franchise.
    I have seen some bitter posts along the lines of “Thanks a lot, Iowa” when Kerry does something particularly stupid; but the parties have chosen this mechanism as the best for advancing their own interests. If it needs changing, registered party members need to change it.
    Shortening the election schedule is almost the same, though States can help a bit by moving the ballot qualification deadline back.
    The one thing the law can do is to pull out artificial differences. MoveOn is the same as DNC; SBVT is RNC; Andy Freeman is the New York Times! The rest is the responsibility of citizens, and I think citizens have spoken pretty loudly (with 200 years of votes) in favor of negative campaigning.

  10. Dann Avatar

    I’d rather have complete transparency about contribution sources than limits on contributions. If I know that Candidate A has accepted $200,000 directly from a variety of shady characters, then I have more information than if they were to funnel the same amount of money through the parties and various PACs.
    The whole reason we have PACs today is because of the campaign finance nonsense that was passed in the 1970s. The objective then was to limit (in my opinion, punish) single contributors is if the total amount of money (singular or aggregate) was a problem.
    As with the media, corporate activities, and so many other things, transparency is the solution to the only problem that exists; understanding why people in power do the things they do.
    Regards,

  11. Jazz Avatar

    If we are going to bring up the removal of the electoral college, then you’re getting into one of my pet peeve areas. I would take up far too much space in this discussion format to put it all down here, so instead I just created a new post here.
    But it basically covers three glaring problems with the electoral college which I expand on quite a bit there. First, the reasons it was originally put in place are either no longer extant, or they were never valid in the first place. Second, it disenfranchises a huge number of voters in every state. And third, it takes the concerns and issues important to people in the “safe states” out of the campaign entirely, even though many of these safe states are the largest in the nation.
    There are so many good reasons to dump the dinosaur that is the electoral college, and not one reason I’ve heard that makes a good argument for keeping it.

  12. AlanC Avatar

    Jazz,
    I’m all in favor of the Electoral College. As mentioned above it forces candidates to broaden their appeal across the entire country. It also puts a cap on the power of big city machine politicians who can deliver votes on request.
    And your 3rd point is one in favor of the EC. Why should those big monolithic blocks be given even more clout than they have now?

  13. US Avatar

    Jeff – any thoughts on:
    o) The current thresholds for third parties to get on the ballots, in debates, etc.
    o) The current voting scheme, vs. instant-runoff, etc, approval voting, etc?

  14. Karl Avatar

    As a summer intern with the Federal Election Commission (in the pre-Monica era), a few things became apparent:
    1. Election laws share one thing common with other laws — they are written by incumbents.
    2. The FEC must seek its annual budget from Congress, a body whose members it is charged with regulating. Aside from the obvious implications, I would note that one way the FEC used to make its budget (before Gore invented the ‘net) was to charge for access to its data. That seems a bit ironic in light of the fact that its informational function is probably its strongest suit today.
    3. The bipartisan makeup of the Commission is designed for deadlock, even more clearly than the Senate. Speaking of which, do people who want to junk the Electoral College also want to junk the Senate, which has many of the features EC opponents find objectionable. Or junk the Supreme Court, which by the definition of some here, “disenfranchises” people on a regular basis (and I’m not talking about Bush v. Gore, either).
    And speaking of the Supremes, their latest decision upholding most of McCain-Feingold accepts the notion that Congress gets to define who the “press” is. This is perhaps the most dangerous precedent the Supremes set in that opinion.
    It’s also worth noting that the opponents of McCain-Feingold expressly predicted what would happen with the 527s. The press likes to call 527 a loophole, though it has been around for decades (just ask the Sierra Club).
    It was no more a looophole than what the press called the “soft money loophole.” The original post-Watergate reforms banned soft money, but Congress amended the law expressly to bring back soft money in ’79 or ’80, iirc. Congress did so in part from the recognition that political parties, for all of their flaws, ultimately rely on coalition-building and thus serve as a mediating influence in the overall political system (at least this is true in a “winner takes all” system as we have in the U.S.).

  15. Andy Avatar

    The rich will always be able to buy a voice. However, as a Soros & Lewis vs Swifties shows, money alone does not sway the process. Soros & Lewis have donated over $30m out of the $170m+ for anti-Bush 527’s. Yet, the Swifties with less than $8m have had the bigger impact.
    The problem with money is the secrecy. We need all donations to be banked every working day and the donors listed on a website within 24 hours. If we know who is donating and how much, we can figger out what it means to us. (i.e. Texans for Truth seed funded by Moveon.org, etc.)
    I would include donated labor from unions in the disclosure. Union employees to work campaigns and walk the districts is fine, if an individual act. When there are penalties and rewards for attendance it ain’t voluntary.
    The primaries are established by the party. Don’t like the rules, change them at the party caucus or change parties.
    The Electoral College works. If a popular vote, why would anyone campaign in Iowa, Arizona, New Mexico, Wisconsin, etc. The coastal populations alone can dictate for the nation. NY-CA-TX-FL would decide.
    Voter Fraud should be prosecuted. Voting multiple times should be a crime worthy of punishment. Voting in multiple jurisdictions should be punished. Identifying yourself at polling place should not be considered “prejudice”. Citizenship should be required to vote.
    We have the laws. They are ignored. NY newspaper finds 46,000 people who voted in FL and NY in 2000. Nobody is fined or jailed.
    Close elections make voter fraud a greater crime since it can change the Congress and Presidency.
    Since we don’t prosecute the crime, we don’t investigate it.
    We don’t take voting very seriously.

  16. Jeff Stockwell Avatar
    Jeff Stockwell

    “We don’t take voting very seriously.”
    Spot on, Andy.
    No limits on contributions and 1,000% immediate and total disclosure. That’s all the campaign finance reform that is needed.
    I think there should be a set time period for campaigns to take place in. this presidential campaign has been going on for over a year-and-a-half. The public is burned out. By election day, many simply don’t care anymore. They just want it to stop. I’m getting tired of being beat over the head with it. A shorter campaign season would be healthy, as well.

  17. shell Avatar

    How exactly do you propose eliminating the Electoral College?

  18. Dave Schuler Avatar

    I’ve placed my thoughts on electoral and campaign reform here.
    An issue that, in my mind, is more pressing than any that Jeff raises is the remarkable lack of representation in the modern-day Congress. In 1790 each Congressional representative stood for about 38,000 constituents (Washington thought that was too many). As of 2000 each Congressional representative represented 680,000 constituents. That’s not humanly possible. It’s tyranny. Talk about disenfranchisement! The current system disenfranchises all minority views and forces political parties into a homogeneous mush.
    Want another electoral reform? Make the Congressional representatives stay in their home districts. Let them meet electronically. This is not the 18th, 19th, or even the 20th century.

  19. hey Avatar

    why do you rob a bank? that’s where the money is
    why do you try and influence a poll? he has power over you / influence / money
    you reduce the propensity of corruption by reducing the power of politicians. to reduce the power of politicians, reduce the ambit of their power and hack their budget and staffs.
    also known as the conservative / libertarian belief in a nightwatchman state… power tends to corrupt (to coin a phrase) so don’t let the intern chasing b*****rds (and b***hes) have any
    thats how you get clean elections and clean politics. but where there is power and money, people will gith for it. as always, the only moral and legitimate position is to be an anti state conservative. it just isn’t aesthetically pleasing to the elites (cut my power? hells no.. but we need a law!)
    election finance laws work less well (and are less enforced) than laws on speeding…

  20. Andrew Tyndall Avatar

    Obviously, in a democracy, electoral policy should seek to increase the relative power individuals have over an election by virtue of their votes and reduce the power individuals have by virtue of their wealth.
    If we staged a larger number of contested elections and allowed them to be voted on by a larger electorate, then the return on the investment of a given dollar in any one election will be reduced.
    Disaggragate power and expand the franchise. The old slogan is true: the solution to the problems of democracy is more democracy.
    For example…
    1.Too much executive power lies in the hands of the Presidency. Make every member of the Cabinet chosen by direct national elections (like the commissioners in Texas). Voters could pick and choose among the planks of each party’s platform: a Republican Treasury Secretary, a Democratic Health Secretary, a Green Interior Secretary, a Libertarian Attorney General and so on. The President’s power will be disaggragated and so the stakes in influencing that one election will be lowered.
    2.Other powerful parts of the government are immune from accountability to the body politic. Establish direct national elections to the Supreme Court and the Federal Reserve Board. That would remove the convoluted one-step-removed argument in Presidential races (vote for me so I will/will not have a litmus test) and it would disabuse us of our exaggerated emphasis on the White House’s influence over the health of the national economy.
    3.The so-called people’s House is an incumbent-protection society. Gerrymandering must be abolished probably by staging transferable vote elections in multi-candidate districts. Every Congressional District should have a competitive race every two years. This would make it impossible for single-issue national groups to target a few races safe in the knowledge that their supporters elsewhere were unthreatened.
    4.Abolition of the Electoral College would seem less imperative if each state abandoned winner-take-all and assigned its electors proportionately to the popular vote. With that reform, the College would be no more egregious an institution than the Senate.
    5.Expand the franchise. Lower the voting age to 13. Extend the vote to immigrants. Do not disqualify felons.

  21. Jim Durbin Avatar

    Andrew,
    There’s a reason we’re a representative democracy and not a pure one.
    Not turning the Supreme Court and Federal Reserve into a popularity contest sure seems like a good reason to keep the current system.
    The system we have now works fairly well to limit extremism and the power of the state. It’s flaws are the electorate’s flaws. But it is sustainable. No party or group of individuals can use the machinery of the state to stay in power.
    Every single political system has strengths and weaknesses. The beauty of our system is the balance. Those that suggest that electoral votes should reflect pure democracy aren’t mindful of the dangers of majority rule.
    Rather than electing the President by popular vote, why don’t we elect the president on the basis of one vote, one state?
    And the whole issue is reduced to bias anyway. It reminds me of the people who wanted 2nd choice balloting in 2000, because those who voted for Nader would have voted for Gore. They conveniently forget Clinton was elected twice on pluralities of votes.
    Think of this. Gore won the popular vote by 500,000 votes. How many conservative voters in DC, Maryland, New York, New Jersey and Massachusetts didn’t bother to vote because they know their state is hopelessly liberal?
    The desire to change is the desire to tamper with the system for short term gain. Resist it.

  22. Jazz Avatar

    Alan, you are certainly a puzzle to me. Why on earth would you think any of my points were in favor of the EC? You seem to be complaining that big cities and dense population areas get too much attention. There are two fundamental things wrong with your objection.
    First, it’s a *vote* based on how many people vote for which candidate. Large population areas are supposed to have more impact than sparsely populated areas. They have more people, and thus more votes.
    Second, the EC does not balance that out at all. It amplifies the problem. You have a state like Utah which is “in play” and the politicians are pandering to them like they were the Holy of Holies. Meanwhile, that entire state has only a small percentage of the population of New York City, say nothing of all of New York State. (Insert Los Angelas and California in there if you like.) And yet, there is no influence whatsoever from NY and Cali because they are “safe states” so neither candidate has to worry about what voters there think.
    If we can’t have direct elections, we at least need to reform the EC to break down the electoral votes from each state based on their House districts. Proportional EC votes by state would be better than no improvement at all. At least it would bring everyone back “in play” to some extent.

  23. jackson Avatar

    What’s wrong with a straight popular vote? The Electoral College is too much like a point spread sytem used for gambling on sports, one person-one vote, why should it matter where it’s coming from? As for TV ads, lose ’em all together. Let the conventions and the debates do all the talking.

  24. AlanC Avatar

    Jazz,
    You misunderstood my poorly worded response. I never thought that you were in favor of the EC.
    When I said “mentioned above” I was referring to remarks made by Seppo about keeping the Union together.
    As to your remark:
    “And third, it takes the concerns and issues important to people in the “safe states” out of the campaign entirely, even though many of these safe states are the largest in the nation.”
    What I meant here is that this is a feature not a bug. The major point of the EC is to balance out the concerns of the small and large states, same reason for the way the Senate is constituted. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. This system has worked for 200 years and will keep on going.

  25. John Anderson Avatar
    John Anderson

    [Jeff and] Jazz, `The original conditions causing a “need” for it are no longer in place or were never valid.`
    I’m not so sure. You do not mention one reason I think still holds: city concerns vs rural concerns, and/or area vs area. A strict one-person-one-vote would mean a Presidental candidate could almost ignore everyone between West Virginia and Nevada. Not quite, true, but hit a couple of big cities and let the rest go.
    On the other hand, “winner take all” probably should be modified in some way. Are the voters of Albany and those of Long Island really congruent? San Francisco and San Diego?

  26. htom Avatar

    The electoral college should be extended to the election of Senators, that is, Senators should be elected by electors from each county in their state, rather than by popular vote.
    The less that the President and Congress can pander to the voter, the more likely that they might at least once in a while pay attention to the business of the country, rather than their state or their re-election (I know, I’m an optimist.)

  27. AvatarADV Avatar

    It’s a federal system of government, not a unitary one – designed around the existence of states, which are more than departments of the federal government.
    I mean, if we’re ripping up the federal system because of over-representation of certain interests, why the heck have we put up with Rhode Island all these years? It’s a state smaller, with less population, than the -city- I live in. Yet its population… no, half its population plus one person gets a full fiftieth of the representation in one of the houses of Congress! Intolerable. Obviously we should subsume Rhode Island into a larger state. In fact, we should probably condense a lot of the older, smaller states to reflect the changing geography of the country. Can’t have them over-represented, right?
    Of course, if you want to go that way, we might as well ditch the Senate altogether; it’s just a brake on the more-democratically-acceptable House as it is.

  28. Andy Avatar

    Our whole Constitution is designed to encourage competition, foster compromise, slow, delay and frustrate all but the most urgent and immediate legislation.
    It is not supposed to be efficient. The system does not allow the slick and fashionable to quickly gain control. The passions of the people cannot be inflammed enough to choose a king or dictator.
    Reading the Constitution and then reading posts discussing govt makes me wonder and applaud the brilliance of our founding fathers. Their distrust of power, their recognition of the necessity of govt are amazing. Other nations struggle to write Constitutions and define process, procedure and limits. Our founders uniquely were willing to establish a process that furstrated politicians for the benefit of all the people.
    We are truly a lucky nation.

  29. bob mitze Avatar

    I agree with all those above who’ve said transparency is very important. I would also add that one thing we all can do together is recognize that there is no such thing as a neutral source when it comes to politics whether a 527 group, an official campaign organization, or a news service. When we all realize that whatever we read in a paper or on the net or see on TV has a slant, and when we can also see where their funding and management control comes from so we can factor that slant into our understanding of what is said then at least we won’t be tricked.

  30. RobertL Avatar

    I agree with Jim Durban’s comment:
    “The desire to change is the desire to tamper with the system for short term gain. Resist it.”
    My own thoughts:
    It used to be puzzling to me that people were eager for changes that would have theoretical benefits that (a little reflection reminds us) are not realized in practice and that are outweighed by unintended, or more likely, by covertly intended, consequences. There is no better example than our miserable and recent “campaign finance reform” legislation.
    It’s not puzzling any more. It’s irritating. I question whether anyone in this country is truly disenfranchised electorally. I question whether ways of attempting more grass-roots participation will have the desired effect, if for no other reasons than the grass-roots are apathetic and the changes will merely alter the identity of the players and rules of play slightly.
    At this point you may be reminding yourself that resistance to change is practically a DSM pathology. Actually, until fairly recently resistance to change was merely politically incorrect, and before that it was even seen as quite sensible. If resistance to change makes you uncomfortable, you might re-read Saul Alinsky’s “Rules for Radicals.” He pointed out how beneficial creating an environment of generalized change is for those who want to slip their own agendas unobtrusively into the mix.
    If it’s not broke, don’t fix it.
    If it looks broke, be damned sure that fixing it won’t make it worse.

  31. chuck Avatar

    They should limit their spending and refuse some contributions and those who don’t are only revealing themselves as slime.
    Sure, and the other guy will break the limits and win. Look at how Kerry suckered Weld. Lesson learned, no quarter offered.

  32. Jeremy Brown Avatar

    I have a real problem accepting that “free speech” best characterizes the running of a political ad (mnemonic device: it ain’t free). A law that forbids this (or sets limits on it) has nothing to do with prohibiting speech. You are perfectly free to say whatever you want to say, on the air or otherwise. What is prohibited is the leveraging of financial power to turn that speech into political influence. So the speech isn’t the issue. If you can get your speech on the air without paying for it, then it’s perfectly fine. So, again, it’s not the speech that’s being abridged, it’s the use of money to divert a captive audience your way.
    There’s nothing in the constitution that guarantees a citizen’s right to purchase an audience.
    If George Soros has enough prestige and influence to command attention merely by holding a press conference or standing on a soapbox in Union Square, then so be it. That’s what the first amendment stands to protect. I don’t think it was meant to protect the artificial creation of influence on the basis of wealth alone. If the American system does protect one’s freedom to purchase influence, it’s not the first amendment that does so.
    I’m not anti-capitalist, but it’s of the utmost importance to draw some lines between capitalism and democracy. And while I admit that this issue encompasses both free speech and the exercise of capital, I feel that the purchase of campaign ad time falls well within the realm of the latter.

  33. Robert Brown Avatar
    Robert Brown

    Jeremy brown said: ***

  34. Jazz Avatar

    Perhpas we’re looking a bit too deeply at the questions regarding the EC. Let’s strip it down to a somewhat simpler question: For the second time in our country’s history, we have a seated president who was elected when his opponent received more votes than him.
    Regardless of whether you like Bush, hate him, don’t care, etc. Please tell us specifically how you can view this as not being broken?

  35. Seppo Avatar

    Jazz, it isn’t broken, it just does not provide the results you would prefer.
    My football team’s offense moved the ball 250 yards more than your team’s offense did, but yours won. Not fair!
    Um, the rules of football have something to say about actually moving the ball over the goal line to score points that determine the winner. How many yards you progressed (or popular votes you received) may influence the outcome, but are not determinative.
    In our system, the states provide the electors, those are the rules of the elections as they are contested. Change the rules, and the players will run very different campaigns.
    Hayes won in 1876 and Bush won in 2000 under the prevailing rules. Florida voting procedures in 2000 were an issue solely because the race was close and their electoral votes were decisive. Of course, if Gore had been able to carry his home state, Florida would not have been crucial to the outcome.
    The 50,000 stolen votes in Philadelphia did not affect Pennsylvania’s elector vote outcome, so those procedures were not an issue.

  36. Robert Brown Avatar
    Robert Brown

    Jazz,
    It’s not broken because our founders decided that regional concerns should factor into the selection of a president as well as majority vote. One of many defenses of minority views from the tyranny of the majority.
    The fact that Gore won the popular vote is an irrelavant artifact of our system. If we elected by popular vote only the candidates would alter their strategy: Bush would campaign in New York and California for Republican votes that otherwise would not count, and likewise Gore would have gone to Texas.

  37. Andy Freeman Avatar
    Andy Freeman

    > What is prohibited is the leveraging of financial power to turn that speech into political influence. So the speech isn’t the issue.
    We have willing speakers and a willing audience, and a law saying that someone can’t spend money to get the speech from the speakers to the audience.
    Speech is the issue.
    > If you can get your speech on the air without paying for it, then it’s perfectly fine. So, again, it’s not the speech that’s being abridged, it’s the use of money to divert a captive audience your way.
    Precisely how is letting the folks at CBS News decide what speech is distributed “freedom of speech”?

  38. shell Avatar

    We can’t eliminate the electoral college without a constitutional amendment. And that would require smaller states to cooperate in a scheme that would cost them influence.
    It isn’t going to happen.
    As long as we are going to debate something that is politically impossible to enact, we aren’t moving the debate forward.
    My suggestions for election reform:
    1. No monetary limits on donations but full disclosure is required. If you don’t want your name online saying you donated to candidate X, then you don’t get to donate. If candidate X doesn’t want it on record saying he took money from you, then he doesn’t get to keep your money. Yes, it would increase the mud. But it would also increase the substantive discourse because candidate X doesn’t have to worry so much about getting the most bang for his buck. Instead of trying to figure out how to make a finite number of dollars stretch over the campaign season, he can talk as long as there are people willing to finance him.
    2. Voter registration must be renewed every two years. This keeps people off the rolls who have moved or died or gone vegetative.
    3. Anyone can buy airtime, newsprint, or webspace to say anything they want about any candidate. If CBS gets to talk about politics the day before the election, so do I.
    4. Create “issue funds”. They’d be labeled “National security”, “Health care”, “Social security”, etc. All the money donated to those funds is split between the candidates, but must be used to address that issue. The more people want to hear about health care, the more money they throw in the health care pot. Instead of the candidates shaping the debate, the people tell the candidates what they want to hear about.

  39. Jim Durbin Avatar

    I agree entirely in making donations complete and immediately transparent.
    I don’t care if George Soros gives $50 million to Kerry, but I want it to be obvious and direct.
    I’d like to see issue ads banned, with all ads tagged to a candidate or a party.
    The big problem with campaigns and special interests and the MSM is hidden bias. Organizations like Get Out The Vote claim to be non-partisan for the tax purposes, but is run by Norman Lear and supported by far-left liberal celebrities.
    No one is non-partisan. Not in an election year. Force everyone to choose sides if they are going to accept or take money.

  40. Jazz Avatar

    So between Seppo and Robert Brown we have heard two “specific” arguments why the EC is not broken. One is a football analogy trying to compare a team who gets more *yards* but loses the game to the the debacle of the 2000 election. The analogy is fatuous because the rules state that the winner is the one who gets the most *points* not the most yards. If you show me a football game where the team with less points wins, they have a problem too.
    The other explanation offered is that it’s not broken simply because it’s “the way the rules are.” Try to remember that the original rules only allowed land owning white males to vote. Should we have kept that? The rules do change and evolve over time to correct problems, both in football and in government. We’ve amended the constitution many times to fix things that didn’t work.
    I can almost give some credit to saying that it protects minority voices, but that is followed up by saying that if we had direct elections then Bush would have campaigned in LA and NYC and Gore in Dallas. And the problem with that is….? What exactly? Guaranteeing that smaller population areas get a voice is fine, but how does that justify effectively silencing the voices of large population areas in return? Clearly it does not, and the system *is* broken as it stands. Small states with low populations are assured representation in the Senate on equal footing. They are drowned out by numbers in the House. You have no problem with that apparently, and neither do I.
    At a minimum we need to break up the casting of the electoral votes so that it breaks down by House districts. The current system has compltely marginalized all of the “safe states” which include some of the largest.

  41. Seppo Avatar

    Jazz, what a batch of nonsense. Nobody is “silenced” because they might cast a GOP vote in Mass or Calif, or a Dem vote in Utah. They had their vote, it was counted, and other had their vote count as well. Were Goldwater voters “silenced” because LBJ cleaned Barry’s clock?
    And yeah, the football analogy works if you understand that points are scored when the ball is carried across the goal line (or between the uprights). In the election, points are scored when you carry the state, and the electors are chosen.
    Simple majority rule across a vast and diverse country would have many unintentional and deleterious consequences, compared to the checks and balances of our current republic. The Electoral College is a key element of the checks and balances that makes governance and stability possible while protecting individual rights from the whims of the majority.

  42. Robert Brown Avatar
    Robert Brown

    Jazz said:

  43. Jazz Avatar

    Your answers still confound me, and perhaps that’s fine since I’ve never claimed to be the brightest bulb on the tree. Let’s take it down to an even lower level for my sake, shall we?
    You have a room with one hundred people in it who have to elect a leader of their group. They may be broken up into a variety of different demographics among whatever lines, or they may be fairly homogenous. 48 of them vote for one person, 52 for the other. The one with 48 votes is made the leader. This is correct how?

  44. Andy Avatar

    Jazz
    You said “A Room” implying one jurisdiction.
    Make it 100 people in 50 rooms, each room gets two votes, then ask your question. Some rooms have one person, some rooms have five or ten.
    The candidates would need to seek votes in every room. Otherwise they could ignore the low population rooms.
    This process assures that each room has it’s interests attended and receives recognition from whichever arrives as the leader.
    The process also assures that those few with deep populations cannot control the whole agenda. The process works. Spend the energy, time, money to work the process.
    In a democracy the majority rules. American style democracy seeks to avoid the tyranny of the majority by assuring minorities are considered and made a part of the decision making.

  45. Jazz Avatar

    So, Andy, the bottom line is that the will of the majority should be subjected to the will of the minority to ensure the minority’s voice is heard? That is literally a direct translation of what you just said.

  46. Jazz Avatar

    So, Andy, the bottom line is that the will of the majority should be subjected to the will of the minority to ensure the minority’s voice is heard? That is literally a direct translation of what you just said.

  47. Robert Brown Avatar
    Robert Brown

    Jazz,
    The problem of finding a leader acceptable to 100 people in a room is different from designing a system that will hold a nation of nearly 300 million people spread over a large geographical area together over time.
    We attempted to solve that problem by dividing the nation into states, each of which is responsible for the majority of the governance of the local population, ceding some power to the central government. An artifact of this strategy is the senate and the electoral college in the legislative and executive branch of the central government, respectively.
    There may come a time when communication and transportation costs may be low enough that people will not identify with where they live or who their neighbors are or the economic concerns of their neighborhood. At that time perhaps the nation could dissolve the states and live under the governance of the central government. I don

  48. John Anderson Avatar
    John Anderson

    Jazz `So … the bottom line is that the will of the majority should be subjected to the will of the minority to ensure the minority’s voice is heard?`
    No, but give the minority some hope of influence. Even such a `minority` should be sizeable enough to broker compromises between majorities. This is, for example, why Nader and Perot (and Teddy Roosevelt’s “Bull Moose Party”) infuenced things even with little hope of getting to the big-time. Doing away with the EC would lose this fringe entirely. See also the Grange movement, Progressive Party[s]… Getting even one EC vote is advantageous, but just about impossible with a national-only vote.
    Put it this way: with the EC, a voter in Montana has almost as much a chance of that State’s national-candidate winning as a voter in California (assuming they were different): if things were a simple majority, Montana might as well always stay home except to add to a protest vote.
    Yeah, the EC is far from perfect, as is the current way of electing Senators, but I don’t think replacing it with a simple one-person-one-vote-majority system is better. Maybe someone can convince me concerning another system.

  49. AlanC Avatar

    Jazz,
    Do you understand what people are saying? The foundation of the country is NOT pure democracy. It is a federal republic and the system is based on the idea that competeing factions can be balanced in such a way as to temper the problems of the “tyranny of the majority”.
    Robert Brown, one correction…we did not divide the nation into states, the states came first and joined to form the nation. This distinction is important because it was the fear of the smaller states that led to the formation of the system of representation and the EC. Rhode Island did not want to be subject to the tyranny of NY or Mass.

  50. yank in london Avatar
    yank in london

    AlanC,
    The combination of the electoral college and the two seats per state in the Senate has led to a tyranny of the relatively unpopulated states over the more heavily populated ones.
    Wyoming has approximately 160K voters per electoral vote whilst California has approximately 600K. The smallest 26 states, essentially a majority in the Senate, represent only a little over 17.5% of the population.
    Elimination of the electoral college would still leave the small states with extremely strong influence well out of proportion with their population.
    A one person, one vote system to replace the EC would have a multitude of favourable effects. Candidates would have to campaign to the entire country rather than tweaking their stance on issues to curry favour in the swing states.
    Furthermore a requirement for the winner to have a majority, rather than a mere plurality, could go a long way to break the stranglehold of the major parties and third party or independent candidates could come into the mix. A run off election between the top two vote getters perhaps 2 weeks after the initial election if no one candidate manages a majority.
    The electoral college’s day is past!

  51. Andy Freeman Avatar
    Andy Freeman

    None of the folks proposing election regulations have ever explained why my barrel of ink should be treated differently than the NYT’s barrel.
    Every so often, Instapundit posts a link to a MSM person claiming that the MSM is responsible 15% of Kerry’s 49%.
    I don’t object to them campaigning; I just want the same rights for the rest of us.

  52. shell Avatar

    I’m still waiting for someone to tell me HOW they will eliminate the electoral college.

  53. Jazz Avatar

    I’m sorry, but the state’s rights argument in favor of the EC is fatuous. As Yank in London so correctly pointed out, less than 20% of the population controling a voting majority in the Senate is already far more representative powe than they need. And like it or not, the office of the President is not a states issue. He is not the President of fifty states, he is the president of all the people in the country. And when a minority can impose their will on a majority as to who will hold that office, the system is broken.
    The answers I am getting here as to why the EC should be defended are puzzing for the following reason: For an example, let’s say we were discussing whether or not we should have drug laws criminalizing marijuana. (I am not getting into that or taking a stand on one side or the other here, this is just an analogy.) One person might stand up and talk about the deleterious health effects of pot, the social disruptions, spiraling crime related to it, etc. Another might argue that it is less harmful than tobacco and overfills our prison system. These are arguments for and against it. But the people responding here in favor of the EC sound like they would say, “We have drug laws against marijuana because the legislatures voted to have them.”
    That’s not an argument about *why* the EC is a good idea. You’re just stating that we have one because the constitution is set up that way. The constitution has been fixed many times before, and it needs to be fixed on this. I do agree that it’s unlikely to happen because of biased political concerns, but this is a theoretical argument at its core. The EC is definitely long past the time it needed to be retired, and none of the original reasons for having it are valid anymore.

  54. AlanC Avatar

    Dear Yank in London, what’s the relative power of small to large states in the House of Representatives? The idea is balance!
    Also, exactly how is Wyoming tyrannizing California? If anything has thrown the system a little out of whack it is the centralization of power in Washington. The States can set up their own laws, they shouldn’t be able to inflict them on other states (slavery diatribe in 5, 4, 3,….)
    There is way too much power in Washington as it is which makes the setup as it is even better. It is HARD to make laws, that’s good!! There are all sorts of checks built into the system, including filibusters and vetos. We don’t need direct election, if anything it would make things worse.

  55. yank in london Avatar
    yank in london

    AlanC,
    The House is the only portion of the federal government where the population is fairly represented. (For the meantime I shall ignore the extraordinary redistricting practices which are anti-democratic.)
    The Senate is the more powerful of the two houses (advise and consent for judges, cabinet memebers and other high ranking officers in particular).
    I do not make an argument against the balance of state power (the House) v people power (the Senate). I only suggest that is enough balance between big and small states. There is no reason that smaller states should have such a material advantage in the Presidential election as well.
    One person one vote. Failure to achieve a majority of the vote leads to a run off between the two candidates with the most votes. Simple and equitable.

  56. RobertL Avatar

    Let’s see. Because I happen to be a recently-decided Bush supporter who lives in a state where John Kerry will likely get a majority vote, thereby taking all our EC delegation… then somehow I am disenfranchised, and I should be upset. I’m not. At least, not about the occasional overall, popular-vote vs. EC anomaly. I’m much more concerned that it has been made so easy for non-citizens to vote. I’m concerned that voter fraud is increasingly making the EC-popular mismatch look like peanuts. I’m concerned that we appear to have had a Watergate done at a local Bush headquarters. I’m concerned at the prospect of bad-faith lawsuits by sore losers where the margin is small. Besides avoiding fixing things that are not broken, we need to prioritize the things that truly need to be be fixed and that can be fixed. For me, the electoral college doesn’t get close to making the cut.

  57. Daniel McMullan Avatar

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