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Ms November

58 comments on Ms November

Ms November

: It’s obligatory to link to the New York Times Magazine discovery of blogs today. My reaction:

It’s time to create the bloggers’ pin-up calendar. In pajamas, please.

: Glenn Reynolds gives the NYTMag story a very gracious link, not being concerned about the focus on liberal bloggers; he says that conservatives have gotten their ink, too. What amuses me is that he still bristles, though wearily now, at being called a conservative himself, still wondering how the label has stuck to him, being that not all his positions are conservative. Well, I’d say that incessant and angry Kerry-bashing might have something to do with it, no? Or maybe not. Glenn still categorizes Andrew Sullivan as a conservative (properly) even though he is now a Kerry backer.

58 responses to “Ms November”

  1. Jaybird Avatar
    Jaybird

    If noticing that Kerry is an awful candidate is a conservative position, I’m not sure that “moderate” is such a high compliment.

  2. Charlie (Colorado) Avatar
    Charlie (Colorado)

    It’s time to create the bloggers’ pin-up calendar. In pajamas, please.
    I agree.
    Moxie first.
    She doesn’t have to wear pajamas.
    Or at least all of them.

  3. Angus Jung Avatar
    Angus Jung

    “Moxie first.”
    Which one?

  4. ronbo Avatar
    ronbo

    incessant and angry Kerry-bashing might have something to do with it, no?
    Actually, no. Reynolds was labeled convervative long before Kerry was nominated. I have to agree with him that it’s mostly lazy thinking – that libertarian = conservative and that pro-war = right-wing crank.
    And lots of people are angry about Kerry, including those who intend to vote for him (see, e.g., Kaus, Mickey).
    Best regards.

  5. old maltese Avatar
    old maltese

    As Prof. Reynolds says, ‘I’ve just about given up fighting that since to so many people “conservative” is just a synonym for “supports the war.” ‘
    Labels, labels — sometimes useful but often distracting from the whole truth.
    Regarding Andrew Sullivan, he and Christopher Hitchens had a wonderful discussion on Tim Russert’s weekend CNBC show yesterday. The facile nature of labels was demonstrated quite well.

  6. Dave Schuler Avatar
    Dave Schuler

    I’m not so sure of this calendar idea. While some (like moxie) would be quite fetching others e.g. Corey Doctorow, Kim Du Toit, and Steven Den Beste, uhhh, not so much.

  7. daudder Avatar
    daudder

    Also on the Russert show, andrew Sullivan called Kerry an “awful” candidate, and he was going to ‘write in John McCain/Joe Leiberman’ Hardly a kerry backer!

  8. Jazz Avatar
    Jazz

    Is Glenn really still trying to take a moderate, nonpartisan pose? He’s one of the better conservative bloggers, and far from shrill compared to the extreme wingers like Ace of Spades, but it hardly seems credible to try to grab the banner of being nonpartisan.

  9. Jazz Avatar
    Jazz

    Is Glenn really still trying to take a moderate, nonpartisan pose? He’s one of the better conservative bloggers, and far from shrill compared to the extreme wingers like Ace of Spades, but it hardly seems credible to try to grab the banner of being nonpartisan.

  10. chuck Avatar
    chuck

    Kerry bashing is good sport for all rational people. Even Maureen Dowd, bless her heart, has discovered how much fun it is.

  11. Kat Avatar
    Kat

    Well, that Matthew Klam piece of fluff not only reinforces the fact that the NYT gives us leftist print, they only focus on leftist bloggers. Klam is every bit as arrogant as Dan Rather. If the Zuningas mouthpiece was representative of all blogs, I’d go back to relying on the biased stuff from the leftist press. Zuningas is a perfect example of the Fifth Column at work in America–an immigrant who came here to attack, a supporter of the terrorists, and a man who was gleeful when 4 Americans were tortured, burned, and hung from a bridge. In my mind–a piece of scum like those who behead infidels. The sad part is that there are many crazies like him on his blog.

  12. Glenn Reynolds Avatar
    Glenn Reynolds

    “Incessant and angry?” I’m not usually angry with Kerry, except over his atrocious comments about Allawi. And even there, frankly, I think I was fairly restrained, considering. As for incessant, well, he just keeps giving me new material.
    What I am is disappointed and disgusted. Disappointed, because Kerry’s the worst Democratic candidate in my lifetime, and I say this as a guy who voted for Dukakis. Kerry’s Dukakis without the character or the intellect or the backbone. I’m disgusted that the Democrats chose this guy to be their candidate, in the middle of a war, meaning that I don’t really have a choice in this election.
    I don’t really think that makes me a “conservative,” and I’d think you’d know better. If you’re serious about this war — and I think that you are — then I don’t see how you can persuade yourself that Kerry deserves to be President, much less that he deserves not to have his flaws pointed out. But if you can so persuade yourself, well, that’s your affair. I hope, however, that you’ll grant the rest of us the right to differ.

  13. Ernest Miller Avatar
    Ernest Miller

    Jay Rosen made an interesting point in one of his comments on Press Think:
    http://journalism.nyu.edu/pubzone/weblogs/pressthink/2004/09/24/cbs_comm.html#comment9670
    He basically argues that the greater divide in our politics seems to be between those who are certain about their beliefs and those whose beliefs are contingent. Rather than categorize people as conservative and liberal, which is increasingly if not already meaningless, I find it much more useful to consider whether someone is willing to entertain doubt and uncertainty.
    I would place Glen Reynolds into the category of contingent thinker. We may not always agree, but he seems willing to entertain and acknowledge doubt about issues he is interested in, for the most part. That makes Reynolds a valuable source to me, even though we may not always agree.
    CBS memogate provides an excellent test for many of the issues of certainty. On the right wing you had absurd claims, but you could also see many bloggers refining the arguments… contingent thinkers more likely. Those who took it as a matter of faith that Rather deliberately pushed those documents, knowing they were likely false … probably not contigent thinkers.
    On the left wing, those who defended the authenticity of the documents with near absolute certainty, answering only the most radical arguments against them and at the same time insinuating a connection to Karl Rove … most likely not contingent thinkers. Those who acknowledged some suspicion of the documents, such as Josh Marshall and Kevin Drum … probably contingent thinkers.
    Those distinctions seem more important to me than whether Marshall and Drum can be classified as “liberal” and Reynolds as “conservative.” It seems to me that Reynolds and Drum have more in common as independent, contingent thinkers than either has in common with the “wingnuts” or “moonbats” or their respective political leanings.

  14. david Avatar
    david

    >I’m disgusted that the Democrats chose this guy to be their candidate, in the middle of a war, meaning that I don’t really have a choice in this election.
    There is no one that the democrats could have selected that you nuts would have been happy with (please don’t even mention Liberman if you even wanna be taken seriously). Does anyone really think if Howard Dean got the nomination we’d be having a more civil election…or if Hillary…Daschle or Gephardt got the nomination. The republiscum slime machine would have kicked into action no matter who the Democrats chose.

  15. Jazz Avatar
    Jazz

    I can’t help but think that Clark would have run a better campaign and been more acceptable to the middle. (He was my favorite early on, but then again I’m a Republican, though not supporting Bush.) I do think Kerry needs something to energize his own base while at the same time not angering the middle. I’m not sure what that will be, if it comes, but yes… he’s run a horrible campaign thus far.

  16. Angus Jung Avatar
    Angus Jung

    “There is no one that the democrats could have selected that you nuts would have been happy with”
    …okay, not a contingent thinker.

  17. Jeff Jarvis Avatar
    Jeff Jarvis

    Glenn:
    Of course, I grant the right to differ. We differ — but not by that much, in the end.
    I’d say that we’re not too far apart on many issues (we are far apart on others); that’s life.
    And I’m not throwing a label; I’m bemused by the label thing (having been exasperated by it plenty of times) and by your musing on it in relation to the NYTMag story. As I said, I thought you were gracious. But you also put yourself into a more conservative camp in your post.
    I’d say we’re different sides of center, actually.
    But I would say that you’ve been bashing Kerry about more than the Iraqi PM’s speech this week — also on Cambodia and the Swifties and other issues. And it’s fine if you want to bash him. I’m just saying that contributes to a view of conservatism, eh?
    At the same time, I’m not exactly a Kerry lover myself, though I’m likely to vote for him, as I’ve said.
    And I know you’re not exactly sainting Bush; you’ve given him a grade of — was it B or B+ or B-?
    I’ve been open toward Bush, for a liberal.
    Thus, we dance around the center.
    As for the war: Yes, I have been in support as I said on my (grin) League of Women Voters post here.

  18. Sissy Willis Avatar
    Sissy Willis

    Listen to NYT author Matthew Klam’s take on what blogging is all about. It turns out it’s really all about Matthew himself — a lefty gossip columnist who fancies himself a “journalist” — starstruck at having managed to tag along with the blogosphere’s golden girl — “Ana Marie Cox has peachy cream skin and eyes of a very bright blue, strawberry blond hair and a filthy mind; she likes to analyze our nation’s leaders in their most private, ah, parts” — to the most glamorous parties surrounding the political conventions this summer:

  19. Angus Jung Avatar
    Angus Jung

    “But I would say that you’ve been bashing Kerry about more than the Iraqi PM’s speech this week — also on Cambodia and the Swifties and other issues. And it’s fine if you want to bash him. I’m just saying that contributes to a view of conservatism, eh?”
    Why?

  20. Jeff Jarvis Avatar
    Jeff Jarvis

    Angus:
    Well, uh, attacking the Democratic candidate and not the Republican candidate might lead one to see, uh, Republican sympathies, eh? Just logic.

  21. Brett Avatar
    Brett

    Jeff,
    “I’ve been open toward Bush…”
    No longer an undecided voter? If true, can you tell us what drove your decision? You’ve brought us along in this story of your vote this year, and I’m curious if there’s been some denouement.

  22. Jeff Jarvis Avatar
    Jeff Jarvis

    Brett: Nothing new. I have been calling myself a likely Kerry voter for months. I keep saying likely because things could change, but I have not categorized myself as undecided. I have sympathized with the undecided not but joined their club.

  23. Angus Jung Avatar
    Angus Jung

    “Well, uh, attacking the Democratic candidate and not the Republican candidate might lead one to see, uh, Republican sympathies, eh? Just logic.”
    Well, uh, only conservatives can, uh, attack Democrats? Logic, I do not think that word means what you think it means… ;)

  24. Angus Jung Avatar
    Angus Jung

    Okay, I apologize for the snarkiness. But as others have pointed out, thinking Kerry stinks isn’t necessarily a conservative position. Any more than thinking Bush stinks is necessarily a liberal one. I’d suggest rereading Ernest’s comment above about contingent thinking. It’s a very interesting idea.

  25. George Avatar
    George

    “Well, uh, attacking the Democratic candidate and not the Republican candidate might lead one to see, uh, Republican sympathies, eh? Just logic.”
    Jeff, Republican does not equal conservative does not equal libertarian.
    Reynolds is a libertarian hawk, IIRC. Libertarian’s share some goals with conservatives but fundamentally they disagree. Generalizing wildly; Libertarianism is a rationalist creed rooted in the Enlightenment while conservatism is an irrationalist creed rooted in tradition. It is not unknown for debates between libertarians and conservatives to degenerate into screaming matches. As such libertarians tend to resent it when they are labeled conservatives.

  26. Sortelli Avatar
    Sortelli

    It is not unknown for debates between libertarians and conservatives to degenerate into screaming matches.
    Is that because libertarians are rational and rooted in Enlightenment or in spite of it?

  27. Brett Avatar
    Brett

    Jeff,
    My mistake – didn’t mean to put words in your mouth.
    So knowing your issues: health care, troop pullouts, Iraq, homeland security, the economy…
    Now that you’ve seen Kerry’s stand and the way in which he carries himself on these issues, you remain convinced that he, and not Bush, is better suited to be president?
    (By the way, I’m not trying to draw you in – just curious.)

  28. Norma Avatar
    Norma

    Jeff,
    These posts are becoming a little off-topic but I too am curious about your support for Kerry. I know you care very much about Iraq–how can you get past his treatment of Allawi? Not only the pettiness of it, but the incredible lack of insight Kerry displayed–whoever is elected in November must work with this man.
    If an informed Kerry supporter like you could post on how you believe this helps and offers hope for Iraq, well, I’d be interested.

  29. tony Avatar
    tony

    so in a contest between the worst candidate in his lifetime and the worst president ever, the blogfather sides with the conservative and wonders why people overwhelmingly consider him a conservative?
    maybe it’s the incessant kerry bashing?
    maybe it’s because bush has provided plenty of new material that somehow never ends on his moderate blog?
    or is it that although he claims that kerry should have his flaws pointed out, he types like if he pointed out the president’s flaws the earth would implode.
    be careful who you accuse of being without character or intellect or backbone, when you have a hard time having courage on a friggin blog.

  30. Richard Cook Avatar
    Richard Cook

    Even a cursory reading of Glenn’s blog indicates a center-left position on various issues. He has a conservative outlook on the war on terror. I do not see how anyone could see otherwise IF you are a regular reader of his blog.

  31. Angus Jung Avatar
    Angus Jung

    So:
    Many conservatives say bad things about Kerry.
    Glenn Reynolds says bad things about Kerry.
    Therefore, Glenn Reynolds is a conservative.
    Is there a junior-high math teacher in the house?

  32. tony Avatar
    tony

    Richard,
    you dont know dick.
    Glenn posts nearly every day. show me one day, one simple day, where Glenn posted more links that were critical of this administration than critical of the democrats.
    one day.
    you’ll have better chances finding wmds in iraq.
    and once you fail at that, just so you know how wrong you are, try to find three posts in a row where he was critical of Bush… you know, the president.
    quite simply can’t be done.
    glenn is as much a left-leaner as o’reilly is a green.

  33. Angus Jung Avatar
    Angus Jung

    “you dont know dick.”
    Why be uncivil about it? You can make your point without this kind of language. There’s no good reason for anybody to respond to such rudeness.

  34. tony Avatar
    tony

    who’s being uncivil?
    either richard doesnt know dick or he does know dick.
    to me what’s uncivil is to throw about such nonsense that glenn is left of center. although perhaps we should ask him what center he’s referring to.

  35. Kat Avatar
    Kat

    Critizing a candidate doesn’t make you anti that candidate. I critize Bush’s immigration policies, his islam is peace chant, and many other things. But I know he is the best man for the job. There isn’t ONE thing I could use to vote Kerry–today it may be true, and tomorrow he will have changed his mind. The terrorists would love someone they can manipulate like a yoyo. What is one good reason to vote for Kerry–just one? That he won’t go to war because he’ll cover for terrorists like Clinton did? That all the pro terrorist countries’ leaders like him. That he has already betrayed America once? That he will let Koffi Annan be our commander in chief? Why would anyone vote for this bumbling buffoon?

  36. Matthew Goggins Avatar
    Matthew Goggins

    Most people are a mix of liberal and conservative.
    The reason people don’t like being labelled is because often the labeller gets the label wrong, or at least different from the label the labellee would choose.
    And even when he gets the label right, the labeller often uses the label as a lazy ad-hominen attack: oh, so-and-so’s a “_______”, so you need to discount what he says.
    Is Professor Reynolds a conservative? I su’pose he might be, but to me, he’s just the ole king o’blogs, all hail to the king!

  37. Angus Jung Avatar
    Angus Jung

    “who’s being uncivil?”
    Faux-incredulity isn’t much of a defense, dear. Come on, you’re better than this. Please calm down and try to focus.

  38. Andrea Harris Avatar
    Andrea Harris

    My god, tony, were you raised in a barn? Telling someone they don’t know “dick” is indeed uncivil, or do you not know what the word “dick” refers to? (Hint: it isn’t the vice-president.) And as for there being no posts on Glenn Reynold’s blog that aren’t conservative or that don’t criticize the Bush administration — you have just revealed yourself as a flat out liar of the Dan Rather class. We can read, bubbie: Glenn has criticized the administration on a number of things, most stridently on the stem cell matter, as well as on Homeland Security, and any number of other subjects that the liberal left supposedly clutch to their breasts as their very own. As for his supposed conservatism in all walks of life, how does his apparent approval re: a racier attitude towards sexuality than is approved of in the conservative repertoire fit in to this portrait?

  39. O'McSomething Avatar
    O’McSomething

    Aww crikey! Who’s zooming who? If longtime blog-people don’t know that Glenn “Insty” Reynolds is a big ol’ rightwinger I have so many bridges to sell. Get real kiddos. What is with all this fakey BS? Like you don’t know what Reynolds is all about. Heh and indeed! And tony’s been talking like tony since way before any of you learned to embed a link, fercrissakes. It’s a freaking blog, not your Aunt Tilly’s parlor. Get over it and get back to your real selves. What are you putting on a show for the newbies who read the Times article? They’ll be gone tomorrow. What a bunch of phony baloney.

  40. Angus Jung Avatar
    Angus Jung

    “What a bunch of phony baloney.”
    Language! My goodness.

  41. Andrea Harris Avatar
    Andrea Harris

    “Aww…[snip] baloney!”
    Now that’s just sad.

  42. tony Avatar
    tony

    see andrea and Angus this is where you people have given any sort of debate in this blog a black eye.
    Glenn Reynolds himself came in here trying to continue his farce that he is not a conservative blogger.
    I called BS on it. A guy named Richard gave a weak defense of Glenn. I called BS on him and asked for proof that Glenn is as moderate as all of you pretend he is.
    I said show me ONE day where Glenn criticised the republicans more than the dems.
    As a daily reader I knew that this was impossible, so I gave you all a chicken exit. I challenged you all to give me one example of The Blogfather posting three times in a row criticizing President Bush.
    instead of admitting that this is a fair challenge, and proof that Glenn is being dishonest, you try to attack me in *how* I phrased this challenge
    deeming me as dishonest as Dan Rather (someone who Glenn has definately railed against more than three posts in a row).
    here’s the best way to shut me up Andrea and Angus: prove me wrong.
    Show me the day where Glenn Reynolds criticised this president, the president of the united states, three posts in a row.
    or show me the day where he went after the right more times than the left.
    it’s a simple request and quite telling.
    if you can’t do it, then say you can’t do it.
    but sensitive souls, don’t try to distract the conversation away from the point.
    the point is that this is about Glenn and his false front, not me and the way I word things.

  43. Angus Jung Avatar
    Angus Jung

    “see andrea and Angus this is where you people have given any sort of debate in this blog a black eye.”
    I think I’m supposed to resent that? Anyway, as I’m sure you know, the onus is on the accuser to prove the accusation. In other words, it’s not up to us to prove he’s NOT a conservative. It’s up to you to make the case that he IS. “He’s mean to Kerry and he doesn’t hate Bush as much as I do!” Not really much of an argument. But if it really means that much to you, I’m willing to give you another chance to make your case. Fire away!

  44. tony Avatar
    tony

    hey man if you cant do it just say you cant do it.
    it’s pretty simple, go to the guy’s site and count.

  45. Angus Jung Avatar
    Angus Jung

    Or, you don’t have to make your case if you don’t want to. Either way.

  46. tony Avatar
    tony

    dude, i made my case. i said that glenn is a conservate blogger. how many times do i have to say it? i can read his blog and see that.
    i can see his ads and see that. i can see that just in the last week he has talked more about dan rather than pretty much anyone on the blogosphere.
    you’d think dan rather sent us to war based on false information. you’d think dan rather took the biggest surplus ever and made it the biggest deficit ever. you’d think dan rather didn’t want the 9/11 commission. you’d think dan rather got the pdr that said “bin ladin determined to strike the US.”
    if you can prove to me through his blog that i’m wrong, then do it. i have given you a number of opportunities and plenty of time. put on your pajamas and do your work.
    but what you’re doing is lame angus. you obviously know that my challenge is fool proof and you’re not man enough to admit it.
    as if admitting that glenn reynolds being a conservative blogger is some sort of terrible admission.

  47. Angus Jung Avatar
    Angus Jung

    Well, as long as we’re playing games, I’ve decided that the only way for you to prove you’re right is to juggle three chainsaws while you whistle the Star-Spangled Banner backwards 10 times, all without spilling the bucket of sulfuric acid balanced on your head.
    hey man if you can’t do it just say you cant do it.

  48. tony Avatar
    tony

    as i have always suspected, you’re a fool, a faux-debater, and an insult to the two men whose name you use ficticiously.
    it’s not a suprising that you have a fake email address and hide like a coward anonymously while wasting the time of those who try to bring about some sort of real discussion in these comments.
    consider yourself hereby ignored.
    if only jeff would ban your access then we would all be better off.

  49. kyle Avatar
    kyle

    Good call T.
    Since so many care about this subject so intensely, perhaps we should start an Instapunditpundit, where we can all argue and speculate about all things Glenn Reynolds all day long.

  50. Angus Jung Avatar
    Angus Jung

    Hey, don’t throw a fit over it. I just figured if you wanted to play silly games, I’d join in the fun. You probably don’t need to do this sort of cognitive work when you’re IM’ing a camgirl, but you really need to bring more to the table when you’re talking to the adults. Sorry if that displeases you, but I think you’re going to have to get used to it as we get closer to November.
    Well, best of luck!

  51. tony Avatar
    tony

    kyle,
    there’s no need for a Smarter Times of glenn. it’s not like he’s lying all the time. he obviously doesn’t want to talk about the faults of the president or his administration, and he’s not alone.
    at first i took his claims of being a moderate seriously. then i took it as him being tounge-in-cheek. now i dont understand it at all.
    even drudge will throw a bone to the dems and at least link their gripes at the administration (as matt is doing currently by linking to the ted kennedy claim that Bush is making the US more vulnerable to get nuked), but glenn buries his head in the sand and takes a few more shots at Rather mixed with links to Spirit of America.
    which would be fine fine fine if he didn’t try to pass himself off as a moderate.
    you cant post 35 times a day, have one lukewarm complaint about a failed gay marriage bill and pretend that youre fair and balanced.
    i know it works for o’reilly and friends, but…

  52. Andrea Harris Avatar
    Andrea Harris

    Gosh darn I missed all the fun. And I like the way that li’l-t tony countered my links to example posts with some strange new rule where now to “prove” Glenn Reynolds is not an evil Karlrovian there have to be “three posts in a row” criticizing the administration. Well hey, I like that tactic! I think I’ll use it from now on. And I will start it with: tony, I’ll believe you are a liberal if you can show me fifteen consecutive posts where you talk about how much you like pie. Mincemeat pie. If you can’t do that, I am going to tell everyone you’ve got a framed and autographed photo of John Ashcroft hanging on the wall above your computer monitor.
    Yeah, total arbitrariness completely divorced from reason or accountability rocks.

  53. Angus Jung Avatar
    Angus Jung

    how dare you andrea if only jeff would ban your access we would all be better off

  54. Andrea Harris Avatar
    Andrea Harris

    I also forgot to mention that tony does not have any posts about nubile young ladies on his blog. At all. None! It’s true because I’m typing it and then hitting the post button!

  55. tony Avatar
    tony

    andrea, you’re a joke and one day you’ll get clued in as to why no one goes to your site.
    of course glenn disagrees with the president on a few issues. he’s a human being. no one is accussing him of being an echo chamber. as i pointed out earlier, even drudge isn’t an echo chamber.
    three posts in a row of angst concerning the serious issues that glenn differs from bush isn’t actually all that difficult for a guy who posts 30+ times in a row, particularily when you consider the last three years that this president has stumbled through.
    three posts in a row is nothing when you consider that glenn is capable of going 10 in a row (or more) against Rather or Joe Wilson, surely a Moderate churning out a post every 20 minutes can get a little uptight during the anti-gay marriage amendment that the blogfather swears he’s against.
    instead he has posted about CBS well past 100 times in the last few weeks. a mistake that CBS admitted to five days later is more important than the president trying to stop the civil rights of americans?
    you know exactly my point when i ask you to seriously look at instapundit.com and see how little negative attention he brings on the current administration and notice how he cant even put together a few posts critical of bushco.
    and instead of actually looking at it and then commenting, you act like an idiot just like your buddy angus and try to divert the topic away from the point. which is glenn is being dishonest and his own blog can’t save him.
    lord knows you surely can’t.

  56. Angus Jung Avatar
    Angus Jung

    Was it something I said?

  57. Andrea Harris Avatar
    Andrea Harris

    Gee, I dunno. Maybe he smoked a bad batch or something. Hey buddy! What say we get together after the next Sekret™ Meeting of the Holy Order of Karlrovians and make plans to tie tony’s shoelaces together?

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