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Not-so-swift boats

113 comments on Not-so-swift boats

Not-so-swift boats

: Glenn Reynolds once accused me of getting obsessed on the FCC vs. Howard Stern and the First Amendment. I disagree but fine, he saw that as a friendly intervention.

In that same spirit, I’d say that Glenn is going overboard — pun a fringe benefit — on the Kerry swift boat/Cambodia hooha.

I tried to do a search on what Glenn had to say about the Bush National Guard hooha; couldn’t get it right; but I’ll bet Glenn didn’t go so glub-glub deep into the attempted Bush scandal as he is going into the attempted Kerry scandal.

And in any case, I don’t think either is a big issue or should be a big issue in this campaign for either side. I don’t think this is a productive fountain of blather. I think it is symptomatic of picking presidents by gotchas and personality rather than issues and stands, which is the dumb and dangerous way to pick presidents. I fear it feeds an atmosphere of gotchas and presidential hatred (about which I’ve written much; see the links in this graph).

In a post Glenn belittled yesterday, Matt Welch said it well:

What I don’t understand is how anyone professes to truly give a flip about what John Kerry and George Bush did 32 or 36 years ago. On Friday, I was given a talking-to by a right-of-center friend (who told me, helpfully, that “even though you’re a liberal we still like you”) about Why I Should Care About the Swift Boaters, and last night a left-of-the-dial pal wanted to get me excited about Bush’s National Guard service

113 responses to “Not-so-swift boats”

  1. James Avatar
    James

    The primary difference is that Kerry has made Viet Nam front and center of his campaign to prove his leadership ability. Bush didn’t do that with his National Guard experience.
    When you make an issue a central focus, don’t be surprised if it gets scrutiny.

  2. Ken Avatar
    Ken

    Ditto what James said.
    “Thus, second, let’s concentrate on what matters: Doing the job of running the government.”
    I agree completely. And what does Kerry offer? Listening to his nominee acceptance speech, 73 words were uttered about his Senate experience preparing him for the job of President. Multiply that times 10 for comments and references to time spent in Vietnam.

  3. GCW Avatar
    GCW

    Ditto.
    Jeff, you’d earn some more credibility on this issue if you criticized Kerry & his campaign for emphasizing Vietnam, rather than criticizing the rest of us for being interested.

  4. Ken Avatar
    Ken

    One more point… the Cambodia question is only one particle in the entire damning book “Unfit for Command.” And because it is one point that can be easily verified (or disproved), it has received the most attention. Is Kerry correct? Or are the Swift Boat Vetrans? And if the latter, does that add to their credibility on other points?

  5. Jim in Texas Avatar
    Jim in Texas

    At the very least I expect any candidate for the most important job in the world to lie more convincingly!!

  6. Leigh Avatar
    Leigh

    So far, Kerry hasn’t done a very good job of convincing me he is capable of handling the job of president. What are his executive qualifications?
    OK… he was “in charge” of his swift-boat. Has he ever run a business? Has he ever led in the Senate? What the hell makes him qualified to run our whole damn country? I just can’t see it, and if he expects to win, he better communicate to me why he is better qualified than Bush (who has at least the experience of running companies and now 4 years of CEO of the U.S. of A.

  7. Andy Avatar
    Andy

    No Vietnam = No Kerry Campaign.
    He has run a stealth campaign on HIS issues. He avoided talking about himself and his issues during the Primaries. The DNC Lovefest was all about his heroism in Vietnam and ABB. His Senate years are silent. Even his anti-Vietnam years are silent.
    Without Vietnam he offers only platitudes, generics and non-specific promises from the middle of the road.
    Who is this strange, sad man?
    Why did he make his war years the centerpiece of his campaign?
    Cries of “move on” ignore what Kerry has told us are the MOST IMPORTANT issues of HIS CAMPAIGN.
    Could it be that having selected him without knowing him Democrats are choosing to lawyer-up and change the subject…?

  8. Mike G Avatar
    Mike G

    I was ready to listen to Kerry and even vote for him. I was impressed by Obama, by Bill n Hill, by Edwards. And then Kerry spoke. He milked his Vietnam service, then he made mozzarella from the milk, then he roasted and ate the cow. He said there was nothing more important than the war on terror, then he couldn’t change the subject fast enough to a prescription drug benefit for seniors or something else REALLY important.
    If John Kerry wants to run on his adult record as a legislator, fine. If John Kerry want to run on his NON-SECRET, explicit plans for dealing with the present crisis, so much the better. But until he does those things, he’s running on four months in his youth and expecting us to think that decides it all. Well, it has decided my mind, that Kerry is an empty suit.

  9. Brett Avatar
    Brett

    Jeff,
    Kerry has no stake in the ground on any issue. That’s the big picture here.
    Foreign policy: How will any of our allies know what to expect of the United Sates?
    Business: How will companies know what to expect in terms of regulation/taxes during a Kerry administration?
    Trust: How will the public believe in anything a President Kerry would say?
    I agree with Mithras’ point: you can’t expect more from bloggers than a guy running for president. Credibility. As Glenn is pointing out, if Porter Goss would fail nomination for this (and you know he would), why should Kerry get a pass?
    This does matter. Kerry has no convictions; he’s not a straight-shooter; his words appear to be meaningless. He’s not a leader. You can’t have a president like that. Not post-9/11.

  10. Franky Avatar
    Franky

    John Kerry is a douche. No one denies that. But it’s a little surprising to see Instapundit devoting pages and pages to showing that one quote is a lie (I’m not following story, but it seems from the headlines I’ve read that probably is a lie) and yet has not once reviewed the thousands of words that assured us there were WMDS. One is a probable lie by a douche. The other led us to war.
    I’ve guess we’ve just arrived at a workable definition of a shill.

  11. jacksback Avatar
    jacksback

    John Kerry every day and every way proves himself to be an inveterate liar (not a guy who “stretches the truth” but an out and out liar). Further, he has no center, no beliefs (other then he should be Pres) and has a legislative career that makes Bush’s business career look like Bill Gates, Sam Walton and Henry Ford wrapped into one).
    The fact that anyone is paying attention to all the lies and manipulations that Kerry and his hired goons are spewing is a godsend.

  12. tony Avatar
    tony

    i think it is more along the lines of:
    No “Missing” Nat’l Guard Records = No Overdone Kerry Veitnam Hero Campaign
    Reynolds is trying to find some chinks in the armor of Kerry’s ‘Nam experience because Bush can only lose in comparisons to miltary experience.
    Meanwhile it’s sorta pot/kettle/black to harp on the Dems for not talking about the “issues” or “qualifications” when nobody else really is.
    other than, of course, kerry, who stuck his neck out and said that he would have sent troops into iraq even without wmd.
    people can namecall all they want, but how exactly does that make our sitting president any more qualified or any less of a tool/douche/liar/deserter?
    i can’t wait to vote and be done with this.

  13. Sharp as a Marble Avatar
    Sharp as a Marble

    “and yet has not once reviewed the thousands of words that assured us there were WMDS”
    Yes. Thousands from Clinton, Gore, Kerry, 99.9% of the rest of the world, etc. There’s a MASSIVE difference between being wrong and lying. If you can’t see it, there’s not much hope for you.
    And Jeff, I’ve noticed you spend a lot of Blog space trying to spike this story. You’re being hypocritical if you give politicians carte blanche to stretch the truth yet expect no one to waste breath trying to prove it.
    The reason that Glenn makes this a bigger point, like most of the posts above this one state, is that Kerry = Viet Nam. GWB > National Guard. The AWOL story was irrelevent because it was flimsy at best and did not go against a central theme of W’s campaign.
    Take away Nam, and all you have is a man who wants to raise taxes and give the the UN keys to the house. What you use to support voting for him is beyond me. I barely have enough to support Bush as it is and would gladly vote him out if the democrats had put a serious candidate in.

  14. Sharp as a Marble Avatar
    Sharp as a Marble

    Tony, I was in the reserves. I missed drills and made them up. If you ask 99 people in my companies who I was, you’d get 87 blank stares. I had paperwork disappear and other things sent to me in triplicate.
    As for your boy’s “miltary experience”, well that’s not entirely laid out now, is it? If you’re comfortable that Kerry is the warrior he claims to be, why not ask HIM to release all his records?

  15. Franky Avatar
    Franky

    I don’t think Bush’s military service is particularly important, although it’s reflective of character as is Kerry’s military service (whether it be a lie or not). But Bush supporters are being disingenous at best when they say that it was never a central plank of the Republicans’ platform. What else is the Republicans platform other than Democrats are soft on national security issues? Doesn’t a man who makes such a charge deserve to have his record on national security reviewed?
    Regardless, let’s just keep writing millions of words about the 1960s on both sides and ignore the massive, deliberate fraud that got us in to the war.
    Intelligence manipulated, assurances on collusion between Al Queda and Iraq that have gone unproved, are both obviously far less impossible than a few references to Cambodia.
    Viva democracy!!!

  16. Yehudit Avatar
    Yehudit

    “Intelligence manipulated, assurances on collusion between Al Queda and Iraq that have gone unproved”
    Franky, read the 9-11 report.

  17. Richard Bennett Avatar
    Richard Bennett

    Reynolds has a ways to go before he catches up with your Howard Stern fixation, Jeff – about 200 posts and 4 months, by my estimation.
    Let me know when he starts posting a “Daily Cambodia Watch”, OK?

  18. fifi Avatar
    fifi

    So where does Kerry stand on the issues, I thought his acceptance speech was substanceless, I perused is website, it’s bland. I recognize they keep it as simple to appeal to a broad audience. The result is that it screams risk-adverse. Right now, I want a candidate who will show me his mettle, not yesterday’s medals.
    At Tacitus, someone recalled Josh Marshall’s simply question – if you switched the candidates, would you approach the storyline differently? If Bush bounds up the stage to accept the nomination and his first words are, “I’m-ah, I’m-ah, I’m here to report for duty.” I’d still gag. And, I would read up and question the AWOL story.)
    Kerry is coming across as a man whose fetish is Vietnam.

  19. tom scott Avatar
    tom scott

    “First, we’re not voting for sainthood here, even for a Pope. We’re talking about politicians. Do any of us think that there’s a politician alive who hasn’t stretched something?”
    And also Matt Welch’s observation: “As far as I can tell, every presidential candidate with military experience has embellished it…”
    The guy sitting in a bar with his hand wrapped around a Lone Star long neck says to the guy next to him, “Let me tell ya about Nam…” is magnitudes lesser than this which greatly influenced U.S. policy and freedom for million of Nicaraguans.
    “During a critical debate on the floor of the United States Senate on March 27, 1986, Senator John Kerry said:
    Mr. President, I remember Christmas of 1968 sitting on a gunboat in Cambodia. I remember what it was like to be shot at by Vietnamese and Khmer Rouge and Cambodians, and have the President of the United States telling the American people that I was not there; the troops were not in Cambodia.
    I have that memory which is seared — seared — in me . . . .
    Exhibit 25, Congressional Record – Senate of March 27, 1986, page 3594.
    By way of further example, Kerry wrote an article for the Boston Herald on October 14, 1979:
    “I remember spending Christmas Eve of 1968 five miles across the Cambodian border being shot at by our South Vietnamese allies who were drunk and celebrating Christmas. The absurdity of almost killed by our own allies in a country in which President Nixon claimed there were no American troops was very real.”
     link
    (Yeah, those Buddhists sure go crazy at Christmas.)
    To say that the two remarks are “embellishments” or “stretches” is either to whitewash or to be uninformed as to how Kerry used it as a weapon.
    You mention the inordinate amount of space you used on Howard Stern. But also look at the effort you put forth on the Limbaugh “hypocrisy.” You don’t come across as serious.

  20. Thom Avatar
    Thom

    The point is media favoratism. I’m sure that Bush lost support based upon the endless harangue about his being “AWOL”. The media pumped that image before the electorate constantly, despite the dearth of support for it. Now, with much stronger accusations against him, Kerry is getting a free pass.
    It’s very convenient to say, “Oh, we shouldn’t care about Vietnam” after only one side has been attacked on the issue.
    I think that is Instapundit’s point as well, thus the constant reminder of Evan Thomas’ admission that the major media outlets will pump up Kerry.

  21. Bostonian Avatar
    Bostonian

    Jeff,
    Obviously you’re not going to agree with where I am going with this, but I’ll say it anyway…
    There are character traits that can change over time: willingness to listen, flexibility, bad personal habits, and so on. And there are some that just don’t change. Egregious lying for personal advantage is one of those traits. Kerry has used these stories (and particularly Cambodia) to make contentious political points. And it’s not like he was a young man at the time. There are some of us who consider this an alarming personal habit. One asks, what other lies might I hear?
    The other facet here is that we are witnessing (I hope!) the final battle of the Viet Nam war. This is between the Swifties and Kerry, and GWB has nothing to do with that. I predict that no matter who wins in November, these men will continue to pursue this issue.
    But hey–it’s your blog, and if this subject is dull to you, you certainly have lots of other material!!

  22. Glenn Reynolds Avatar
    Glenn Reynolds

    I respond here. But here’s the gist: “I promise to quit covering this issue so much as soon as the major media — who certainly didn’t ignore the Stern issue, or the bogus Bush/AWOL claims — start carrying the ball.”

  23. Wayne Avatar
    Wayne

    Just to pile on: What Glenn is doing is important because the MSM will not pick up the story and determine the facts. Your Stern stuff was carried on to the point that any reasonable observer can only consider you a total fool. Sorry, Jeff, but Glenn’s right in both cased.

  24. Jim B Avatar
    Jim B

    I’m with Glenn on this one…
    If there was a case of Bush making up his biography out of whole cloth and using that fiction as a justification for his entire political career, I don’t think any long-time reader has any doubt in his/her mind it would earn him days of scorn on your blog…Trying to claim “Nothing to see here, move along…” isn’t going to wash here…
    It’s time to ‘fess up…
    The *real* problem you have is that this story isn’t favorable to your chosen candidate and has the explosive potential to completely sink his candidacy if voters decide that it *is* relevant to his credibility…
    This has nothing to do with an intervention because of concern for Glenn: it’s a naked partisan plea to stop before somebody hears him…

  25. Rick Ballard Avatar
    Rick Ballard

    So tell us Jeff, what in the illustrious 30 year public career of the Right Honorable Junior Senator from Massachuesetts would you propose that we focus on? Which of his sterling achievments in the Senate gives us the best understanding of the depth and strength of his political vision? In what area of achievement are we to find a reason to support this paragon of nuance?
    Shall we start with his first appearance in the Senate? As a notorious liar in his Winter Soldier testimony? Or should we begin with his medal toss (he threw them even if they weren’t his, right?) Or did someone else tell him about throwing medals and it just seemed too good a story for him not to repeat?
    So tell us Jeff, how well do you know Evan Thomas? Do you really think the MSM/DNC propaganda mill is worth 15 points? Or just 10?How far are you willing to go in doing your part? What else needs to be buried in order to advance this empty sham of a man to the presidency?
    Please, at least name some accomplishment that makes you feel that John Kerry would make a decent President. Or just shut up about Reynolds and anyone else honest enough to look at his complete lack of accomplishment.

  26. John Thacker Avatar
    John Thacker

    BTW Jeff, speaking of the FCC and such, you should take an interest in what Canada has done to CHOI, a radio station in Quebec. Completely shut it down by denying its license, based on a mere handful of complaints. Tamer stuff than Stern, though there’s darker implications that politics was involved too.
    Seems like something that might be up your alley, if you want to check it out.

  27. Dexter Westbrook Avatar
    Dexter Westbrook

    What’s scary about Kerry and Cambodia isn’t that he is lying. It’s that Kerry has repeated his own lie often enough, he actually believes he WAS in Cambodia during Christmas 1968.
    The other problem here is this: Kerry is an empty leadership vessel, but I also don’t have any sense of what Bush’s agenda would be during a second term. He’s already cut taxes and left no child behind. Aside from fighting terrorists, what does he want to do next?

  28. Neil Avatar
    Neil

    You’re right: Kerry did make his Vietnam service a central part of his campaign, but to a certain extent, so has Bush. I will refer you to the “Mission Accomplished” aircraft carrier, Top Gun, Tom Cruise moment back in May of 2003. Kerry, like every single politician that served in the military ever, trumpeted his service, which although irrelevant to the overall campaign stands in stark contrast to Bush, and also helped to alleviate the idiotic gap that existed between the two on issues of national security.
    Mr. Reynolds is justifying his crusade by saying the media has not focused on this issue as much as the attention directed towards Bush, which is a gross mischaracterization considering the Swift Boat Veterans for Bush, I mean Against Kerry have been featured within the first 20 minutes of every single news program. Remember the Michael Moore-ish propaganda he was peddling about Sandy Berger?

  29. Ptolemy Avatar
    Ptolemy

    Is Kerry getting hammered by the press about these issues? I recall poor McClellan(sp) having to answer a dozen questions about the AWOL story and producing proof of his actually serving. Are the press this relentless on Kerry? Neil, do you think Berger stealing documents isn’t news worthy?

  30. syn Avatar
    syn

    MSM media won’t carry the ball on this story, it is against their low standard of ethical journalism.
    How one who advocated Stern’s right to voice his blather could possibly call the SwiftVet’s right to voice their dissent by declaring it ‘hooha’ is indeed foolish.
    I had, at the very least, thought you might have taken issue with the fact that Kerry, a Senator and Presidential candidate, immediately informed TV stations that should they air the SwiftBoat Ad, Kerry’s attorney’s would sue.
    I have lost all respect for this blog.

  31. Berend de Boer Avatar
    Berend de Boer

    Bush is not running on his duty in the National Guard. Kerry is. If people may not even look into things the candidate is obsessive about, does that mean they must trust the candidate on his word?
    He ONLY talks about Vietnam. He finds it relevant. And it’s not embellishment. He used his supposed Cambodia experience to influence politics. It’s not some bragging to friends or in a biography. That wouldn’t be a big story.

  32. Cheryl Avatar
    Cheryl

    This is a big deal. The major media has called out President Bush over and over and over again on so many issues. When they start to apply the same questions and level of investigation to John Kerry then Glenn Reynolds can go on to something else. In the mean time he deserves all the thanks and praise from us for investigating this in a thorough and calm manner. Big media is spinning this election. It frightens me how much people are buying into it. This is not gotcha-ism. This is a media who wants to elect John Kerry.

  33. Lawrence Avatar
    Lawrence

    You’re way off base, Jeff. Are you saying that it doesn’t matter if Kerry has made up fantastic stories about delivering a CIA operative in Cambodia, stories that if true would be illegal? He didn’t just let slip a fib in an overhead conversation or anything, he gave the account on the Senate floor to attack Nixon (and Reagan’s policies in SA). The depth of the fabrication, if that’s what it is, which it seems to be, goes so far that he also tells a story about a hat the secret agent man gave him. You think this is a nonstory? Well, you’re entitled to your opinion of course, but many others obviously disagree. And Glenn is right that the major media hasn’t covered this story anywhere close to the level it carried the bogus Bush AWOL accusation.

  34. Eric Blair Avatar
    Eric Blair

    Jarvis, get your head out of your ass.
    Reynolds hasn’t even begun to to compare to your ‘daily Stern’ fixation.
    You’re losing your credibility.

  35. Al Avatar
    Al

    Thom is right – Call me when you see several days of front page stories in the NYTimes about Kerry’s lie. Until then, all the publicity this topic gets is well deserved.

  36. Charlie (Colorado) Avatar
    Charlie (Colorado)

    I’m with Glenn on this, Jeff. You’ve been obsessive about howard Stern for — what? — Weeks? Months? The “Daily Stern”, you called it. You’ve berated Bush and the Republicans and apparently decided that this overcomes the War to drive your vote to Kerry. When called on it, you’ve said “yeah, yeah, both parties… but it’s Bush’s fault!”
    Back off a minute and think about it Jeff. Does three days of Glenn searching out sources and following the story really compare to the 231 hits for Stern on buzzmachine?

  37. david Avatar
    david

    Jeff, you are a blogger a deeply respect, particualrly since you are cut from the same cloth as I, a long term Dem that supports the war in Iraq and understands the nature of this war. I’m not into bashing for bashing sake. I bleieve the Bush AWOL issue was thoroughly investigated, Bush released his records. Not a testimony to bush’s military service, to be sure, but the story is out there for all to see. I’m afraid your desire to remain a loyal Democrat has muddled your mind. Glenn focusing too much here???? Until MSM does their job, thank God for Reynolds or we’d be potentially electing a narsasitic, unprincipled story teller at the most crucial time in our nations history. We can get back to promising ideals AFTER the war.

  38. Scott Brady Avatar
    Scott Brady

    Jeff,
    I’m removing you from my bookmarks. Enjoy the kool aid.

  39. Thom Avatar
    Thom

    Using your own hypothetical, let’s just say for the sake of argument that Bush did his duty, but the major media outlets have created and left the mistaken impression that he hasn’t. Let’s just also say that Kerry, aided by these same media outlets, has painted himself as another Audie Murphy, and uses that image as a club against all political opponents, when the true facts are otherwise.
    Should we all just say, “Oh, well, let’s just ‘move on’”? Sorry, I can’t do that.

  40. DR Avatar
    DR

    Scott, I am sure you will be missed.

  41. jt007 Avatar
    jt007

    Amazing. How can anyone ask why we are talking about events that occurred 35 years ago. John Kerry has made it the centerpiece of his campaign. Notwithstanding the fact that only a narcissistic baby boomer would think that the election in 2004 should hinge on what he did for four months that long ago, Kerry has made it an issue in this campaign so it’s relevant. In the 2000 presidential race neither Gore nor Bush made more than a cursory mention of Vietnam.
    Jeff’s hypothetical “Let’s assume that (1) Bush did not do his duty and lied about not doing his duty” suffers from the fatal flaw that Bush did not shirk his duty and he did not lie about it. Kerry has bragged about his Vietnam experience and now honest people know that he has been telling overt lies in addition to exagerations. Those facts are absolutely relevant to whether he would be a good president. Didn’t you learn anything from Clinton’s presidency?

  42. Berend de Boer Avatar
    Berend de Boer

    One more thing Jeff: Kerry has accussed all his vets of warcrime atrocities. Are they allowed to hit back now or not? Their lifes have been smeared, painted for 30 years by Kerry as guys who were criminals. They try to set the record straight.

  43. dogman Avatar
    dogman

    You are so off. When Bush’s National Guard record was being questioned by such paragons as Michael Moore and Terry McAuliffe, the press was all over it. They put it under the microscope. When Kerry’s record gets questioned, you can hear the crickets chirping at the NYT, WaPo, NBC, CBS, ABC and CNN. Glenn Reynolds NEEDS to cover this, because it isn’t getting covered by the people who claim to have the job of covering it. They want Bush out and want to give Kerry a vaseline-assisted free ride into the White House. Matt Welch deserved to get called out by Reynolds. Welch wants Kerry to win. He is no longer an “objective” observer. Good job Glenn. Jeff gets an F on this one…

  44. Andy Freeman Avatar
    Andy Freeman

    > I will refer you to the “Mission Accomplished” aircraft carrier, Top Gun, Tom Cruise moment back in May of 2003.
    Unless you’re claiming that Bush wasn’t on that plane and that he said that we should re-elect him because he was on that plane, that’s not analogous.

  45. Barry D Avatar
    Barry D

    Jeff,
    As A Kerry supporter you must have been getting upset with your candidate about his talking about Vietnam so much, but I didn’t see that reflected too much in the blog. It is interesting how the Kerry supporters have had next to nothing to say about their candidate’s obsession with his Vietnam expereince in this campaign but are now indignant when the opponents discuss it. Your candidate has been caught, and you are using one of the strategies which was predicted to get everyone from talking about it. Namely, the old” politiicans embellish and Bush does too so let’s talk about something else.” Considering how important you see the WoT as being, I think it should concern you, as a supporter of Kerry, that he seems to have lied about where he was in a direct attempt to serve as an enabler of Ortega (as the Cambodia stuff was played out big in the 1986 Senate debate re: contras).
    Jeff, the more conservative folks in the blogosphere held Trent Lott (one of their own) accountable for what he said. Hold your candidate accountable for what he has said. He could be the next CiC. You don’t strike me as the kind of guy who thinks it’s only about your side winning the election. The stakes are higher than that.

  46. N. WILHELM Avatar
    N. WILHELM

    quote:
    “First, we’re not voting for sainthood here, even for a Pope”
    comment:
    And exactly here is the “root of all evil” in this country.
    The Pilgrim Fathers’ heritage that leads a lot of the US population does not allow them to say (as the French did): the president has a mistress? So what, who cares to know. The only relevant thing is: does he do his job for the country as he should?. That is the tape to measure him with.

  47. tony Avatar
    tony

    since when is Nightline not mainstream media?
    Glenn was all pumped up when he found out the swiftboaters were going to be discussed on the show this week, he linked it, and sat on the edge of his seat.
    And then when they said, as he says, “there’s nothing to see here,” he went back to pouting and obsessing.
    “I promise to quit covering this issue so much as soon as the major media — who certainly didn’t ignore the Stern issue, or the bogus Bush/AWOL claims — start carrying the ball,” The Prof says.
    ABC says there is no ball to carry on the swiftboat naysayers. And with Corsi co-writting the book, it’s hard not understand why “major media” isn’t paying much attention to Unfit for Command.
    Secondly, regarding Stern, the press *has* stopped covering the story. Oprah still hasn’t been fined, and no one from the FCC will explain to the public (or the fined) how Stern’s description for oral/anal sex is fineable and Winfrey’s isn’t.
    Just like how the press shrugged their shoulders after the White House failed to produce the National Guard records that would finally put this matter to rest. Even as the allegations were echoing through the Fleet Center, the press wasn’t saying, “oh yeah, when can we expect these records?”
    common sense says that most people are more likely to believe that Kerry’s three purple hearts were earned.
    however without the records for everyone to see, americans are going to have a hard time believing that the president isnt hiding something. unlike wmd’s, these records simply must be produced to clear dubya.
    meanwhile frantically searching for a chink in the armor of a war hero, while desperately clinging to the slurs of a third-rate smear campaign are not only embarrasing to read and watch, but below this reader’s expectations of the most-read blogger alive.
    poor show.

  48. BarCodeKing Avatar
    BarCodeKing

    Tony, why is Corsi relevant? He’s not one of the Swift Boat Vets, he just co-wrote the book. The media should be looking at the claims the Swift Boat Vets have made in the book and then try to verify or disprove them, if they are as impartial as they claim to be (which I no longer believe). Instead, they are stonewalling and resorting to ad hominem attacks on Corsi’s character because they are either unwilling or unable to refute the charges in the book. That’s pretty damn weak.

  49. Chris Josephson Avatar
    Chris Josephson

    I am very glad the issues raised by the anti-Kerry vets continue to be written about on blogs that receive lots of traffic. I’m very pleased to see Glenn give it the attention he has.
    I see two sets of issues raised by the vets. One issue is Kerry’s behavior in Vietnam. The other is Kerry’s participation, back in the states, in helping to create the image of Vietnam soldiers as baby killers.
    I don’t have the faintest idea where the truth lies regarding Kerry’s medals. For me, that’s not too much of an issue, but I don’t mind reading about it.
    The more important issue, for me and the vets I know, is about how the vets were portrayed as baby killers by people such as Kerry. This issue transcends the election. It’s been an open wound for many of our vets for 30+ years.
    How many of the testimonies, pertaining to the ‘everyday atrocities’ committed by our troops in Vietnam, were false testimonies? How many lies were told that defamed our soldiers and caused them to be looked upon with scorn when they returned?
    I applaud any effort that will help our Vietnam vets remove the stigma placed upon them by others. They have earned the right to have the US public know what lies were told about them.
    If Glenn, or others, keep writing about these issues they are giving our vets the chance they deserve to be heard. It *has* been 30 years. It’s about time we paid attention.
    I agree with Bostonian:
    “The other facet here is that we are witnessing (I hope!) the final battle of the Viet Nam war. This is between the Swifties and Kerry, and GWB has nothing to do with that. I predict that no matter who wins in November, these men will continue to pursue this issue.”

  50. HH Avatar
    HH

    Bush’s so-called “AWOL” issue, much to the chagrin of the left, is rather easily explainable. Kerry’s outright dishonesty about his military service is not. If Kerry actually did focus on the issues other than vaguing them up as much as possible and instead saying “Hey I served in Vietnam!” this wouldn’t get nearly as… well, as little attention as it has received, especially in comparison with “AWOL.” Kevin Drum obsessed over that while the media was following his lead every step of the way… not so with Glenn so he has every right to talk about it as long as developments continue.

  51. HH Avatar
    HH

    “And with Corsi co-writting the book”
    Corsi of course has already apologized for his irrelevant offending statements. Slap a D by his name and he’d already be a lefty hero by now.

  52. Les Jones Avatar
    Les Jones

    As Roger Simon would say:
    Jeff, you’re drunk. Sit down.

  53. Tom Grey - Liberty Dad Avatar
    Tom Grey – Liberty Dad

    Jeff, if you honestly looked at this issue, you would conclude it makes voters NOT vote for Kerry.
    This violation of your preferred conclusion forces you to attempt a different analysis. The anti-Bush problem is that there really is NO good reason not to vote FOR Bush; except petty personal ones (J. Chait’s “I hate his walk, his talk, his smirk”).
    Even gay marriage, the most substantial domestic/ cultural difference between them is this:
    Bush is against gay marriage; Kerry “says” he’s against gay marriage. Bush understands the only way to stop gay marriage, in practice, is a constitutional amendment (which will most likely fail). Kerry opposes the amendment — and we all know that means he doesn’t really oppose gay marriage. So Kerry’s “lying” when he says, like Bush, that he’s against it.
    Thus Kerry supporters, on this issue, support Kerry because they know he’s “lying”. That’s terrible.
    On Cambodia:
    Kerry Lied, 2 million Died.
    http://tomgrey.motime.com/1092246736#322590

  54. Tom Grey - Liberty Dad Avatar
    Tom Grey – Liberty Dad

    Please look at the bias in your own questions:
    Let’s assume that (1) Bush did not do his duty and lied about not doing his duty and (2) Kerry stretched the truth about doing his duty.
    You can’t even bear to assume that Kerry LIED about what he did, in the US Senate. How about assuming that (1) Bush did not, completely, do every bit of his legally required duty, and stretched the truth about what he did; while de-emphasizing it, and (2) Kerry blatantly created a fictitious war story, told this lie to the Senate in order to oppose American action against evil, and made his war experience the focus of his campaign–his lie is the best stuff he’s ever done.
    I think my assumptions are closer to the reality; and more likely to change undecideds against Kerry.

  55. HA Avatar
    HA

    Jeff,
    You are ABSOLUTELY WRONG on this issue. Kerry’s lies about his service in Vietnam fatally undermine the SOLE basis put forward by his campaign for credibility on national security and prove his lack of fitness for office. He certainly can’t claim such credibilty on his Congressional career spent trying to gut our military and intelligence.
    Furthermore, the dominant illiberal press is REFUSING to cover this issue. If bloggers weren’t dissecting this story nobody would be. I’m surprised that someone like you who is endlessly pontificating about the revolution of the blogosphere would criticize Glenn for fulfilling the EXACT role that you have been talking about.
    You are WAY off base with this.

  56. Kim Avatar
    Kim

    One good tweak deserves another. (~:
    Anyway, it has been picked up by the Daily News. This was out yesterday.
    Kerry has staked his candidacy on Vietnam. His running mate has publicly invited the country to judge Kerry by listening to his comrades in arms. A lot of them, to Edwards’ obvious chagrin, are saying that John Kerry is unfit for command.
    If it turns out he made up the story of Christmas in Cambodia, they could very well be right.
    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ideas_opinions/story/220785p-189814c.html

  57. Jacksback Avatar
    Jacksback

    Ah i think i figured it out: Stern loves to do his “bit” about how he was killing gooks in Viet Nam (what you don’t think it’s funny? you must be a republican then) when everyone knows it’s not true.
    Kerry loves to do his “bit” about his heroism and side trips to Cambodia, even thos everyone knows it’s not true.
    Thus Jeff sees no problem with lies about Nam, since Stern (the originator) was the first to do it (or was Kerry the first to lie about Nam? Man this is confusing).

  58. Tim Avatar
    Tim

    I wonder if Jeff will address the questions posed to him here. I think I cannot recall someone so out of touch with his audience than he is here. Viva la difference!
    After I type this comment, I’ll need to search for Jarvis commentary when the Clinton Administration drove The Greaseman from the airwaves.
    But re Kerry: there’s only two things to run on: his record and his promises. His record sucks, so he’s National Security emphasizing promises, which he bolsters with his alleged cred due to Vietnam. He’s promising to be tough and stating that his service indicates that he will follow through on that promise.
    See where I’m going?

  59. fifi Avatar
    fifi

    Jeff,
    On issues, do you think there is any merit to Mark Steyn’s take on Kerry?

    If you wanted to pick a candidate on the wrong side of every major defense and foreign policy question of the last two decades, you’d be hard put to find anyone with as comprehensively poor judgment as Kerry: tot up his votes and statements on everything from Grenada to the Gulf War, Saddam to the Sandinistas, the Cold War to missile defense to every major weapons system of the Eighties and Nineties. He called them all wrong.

  60. Mike G Avatar
    Mike G

    Kerry doesn’t talk about his modern day record because he’s betting “not-Bush” is enough this year. He may be right, but not in my case.
    One benefit we’ll get out of a Kerrry presidency is that quite possibly the “office” of First Lady will be discredited once and for all by Arianna Heinzington. Is there any other democracy that would tolerate giving so much power and prestige to a foreign-born adventuress just because she made an advantageous switch of husbands late in life (and brought a fortune to the party?) She’s the American Lola Montez.

  61. Alex Avatar
    Alex

    Wow, how often do you see this kind of near-unity on such a high-profile site?? I wonder how much of this is the Instalanche tho…
    As for the matter at hand, everything’s already been said that needs to. Kerry has made his Vietnam service the central issue of his campaign, so it deserves and requires utmost scrutiny.

  62. Leland Avatar
    Leland

    Wow, this looks like a blog war. Jeff and his Daily Stern vs Glenn and his Daily Swift Vets. The comments seem to suggest who is winning the hearts and mind.

  63. Franky Avatar
    Franky

    I think character issues are important, but the absurdity of this entire debate struck me. My girlfriend lives in another country and last night we spoke after she returned from F 9/11. She expressed her hope that Bush would lose. I said I agreed, but that Kerry had taken some really bad press of late. She asked why. And I explained that he made some comments twenty years ago about something that occurred 36 years ago. “What were the comments?” “That he was in Cambodia on Christmas day”.
    Go ahead take the test. Go to someone outside of the blogosphere and explain this little storm to them. Feel how stupid you sound as you mouth the words explaining why really whether he was in Cambodia or not is really important.

  64. shell Avatar
    shell

    Character is the only issue. The issues change. Political possibilities change. I didn’t know when I voted for Bush in 2000 that I was voting for a war president. I voted for him because I thought he was a better man and a better leader. I disagree with him on a lot of issues, but I have never regretted my vote.

  65. submandave Avatar
    submandave

    At the risk of piling on:
    “Let’s assume that (1) Bush did not do his duty and lied about not doing his duty and (2) Kerry stretched the truth about doing his duty. ”
    The problem is that your whole point and position assumes a parity between the two issues. This ignores a couple of key fundamental differences:
    1. In the Bush/AWOL story, the burden of proof has always been placed on Bush to prove he’s innocent, wheras in the Kerry/Cambodia story the burden of proof has been taken up by the accusors.
    2. Bush/AWOL always relied on a lack of evidence to insinuate a wrong, while Kerry/Cambodia relies upon a preponderance of evidence to prove irreconcilable differences between accounts. For Bush to say “I completed my service” and someone else to say “I don’t remember him” is not the same as two completely different and contradictory stories.
    3. The satisfactory completion of ANG drills has never, to my knowledge, been used to butress or support specific national policy proposals or used to influence others’ opinions on such matters. Kerry/Cambodia was specifically and pointedly used for just such political purposes.
    But, even if we do concede to your assumptions, what we are left with are two lies. In the one case, the lie was for personal reasons (save embarassment, get the drill points and pay, complete service obligation) while the other was for pointed political reasons (influence foreign policy). While neither one would be honorable, consider in the Liberal world which is more akin to Monica Lewenski and which is more like the alledged October Surprise and then tell me again why it isn’t important.

  66. Kat Avatar
    Kat

    I agree totally with Mark Steyn–Kerry is too weird to be president. He’s a jive turkey .
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2004/08/10/do1002.xml&sSheet=/opinion/2004/08/10/ixop.html

  67. Mike Avatar
    Mike

    Jeff, why would you even suggest such a comparison between your obsession with Stern and the posts on Instapundit. You discredit yourself the moment you make it and the rest of your post is meaningless. Come on, nothing compares to your obsession with Stern, it was something I came to expect everyday I visited this site. There hasn’t even been a week of posts over at Instapundit.
    You, the purveyor of the blog world, should be trumpeting this story as one of the reasons the blog world exists. Considering how Kerry has made Vietnam the central issue of his campaign, the media should be all over this story. Instead, the only coverage has been how the Swift boat veterans are being mainly financed by a Republican. And that’s it. You should be outraged that the media hasn’t investigated this with the same savvy they did the Bush AWOL story. Wake up Jeff, this is news and people should be hearing about this.

  68. Catherine Avatar
    Catherine

    I take exception to the charge that all politicians embellished their war history. George McGovern didn’t run on his experience in WW2 and he was highly decorated, and neither did Bush 1 or Dole. The only reason people knew about Dole was because he was disfigured from the war. Dole never said, “One of my qualifications for this job is I KNOW what it’s like to carry a gun unto Battle. I know what it’s like to be part of a “band of brothers. I KNOW what it’s like to write home telling your family your OK when maybe you are not. I was in WW2!” Neither did Bush I.
    All of them have CLASS. My Uncle Pat has a deformed torso from being sliced and diced from a mortor explosion in Korea and he NEVER EVER talks about it. NEVER. He doesn’t HAVE to. Neither did the WW2 vets I mention above.
    As for Bush 2, that wasn’t the central platfor then or now. Saying you are stronger on national security as someone said is not the same as saying “I served, therefore you should choose me.”
    Kerry’s Cambodia stories about secret missions with covert CIA operatives is akin to Bush saying, “Nobody knows it, but while I was in the Air National Guard, I ran secret missons to Cuba, but the official word was that we weren’t…the Cuban Army tried to shoot me down, but…” I mean, the media would be all over Bush.
    Kerry is running on Vietnam. He said Nixon sent him to Cambodia at Xmas 68 when Nixon was not yet Pres for another month; he said it is “seared – seared” into his memory in testimony to the Senate in 1986 regarding Nicaragua, so how can he say now as his aide did on TV last night, that he “misspoke.” B.S.! His WaPo March 2003 interview when he talks about his “secret hat” given to him by the covert CIA operative as a souvenier and making a finger to pose as though he was firing a gun and says, “POW!” that is CREEPY.
    Finally, Jeff, you like to say you can do anything you like on your blog, well so can Glenn, even if you feel it’s a non-issue.

  69. Ptolemy Avatar
    Ptolemy

    How would anybody who takes their world view from a lying documentary be expected to care about the story of Kerry lying about Cambodia? Right and wrong are obviously not the issue to some.

  70. Franky Avatar
    Franky

    So do we go on about Bush’s extensive lies about what he did on 9/11? where’s the outrage of the lies he told, including that he watched it on television? If it’s a question of right and wroing, Ptolemy, I expect to see you harshly criticise Bush, because you wouldn’t view right or wrong depending upon which candidate did it, would you?

  71. Franky Avatar
    Franky

    I see the general point of it being classy not to mention war experience, but I can’t agree that the official face of Viagra qualifies as being classy.

  72. Ptolemy Avatar
    Ptolemy

    Alright. Say he did lie about watching it on television. I don’t recall him telling you to vote for him because he watched it on television. In fact I have to admit my ignorance on what he is claiming to have done those first several hours. I have no problem with you educating me. The concern about right and wrong is the issue of knowing much of F-9/11 is manipulated crap and still using it for inspiration to hope Bush loses and then topping this with indifference to your man’s obvious lies as well. I see a scary comfort on your side in surrounding yourself with liars. When you consider how much you scream about Bush lying makes me wonder where all your drama is coming from. Kerry lies and for what? Bush has managed to destroy the Taliban (not Al Queda) and stop a genocide in Iraq. What has your man done again? Fought in Vietnam? I feel no need to break out the knee pads for Kerry anytime soon myself.

  73. Kat Avatar
    Kat

    http://paintedover.com/uploads/7/hatman1.jpg

  74. Angus Jung Avatar
    Angus Jung

    “Go ahead take the test. Go to someone outside of the blogosphere and explain this little storm to them. Feel how stupid you sound as you mouth the words explaining why really whether he was in Cambodia or not is really important.”
    Here’s another test: Replace “whether he was in Cambodia or not” with “Trent Lott making racist comments at a banquet.” It’s only a little storm until it’s a big storm.
    But hey, it’s cool that you and Jeff finally agree on something, Franky!

  75. Beatnik Joe Avatar
    Beatnik Joe

    Sorry Jeff, I think Glenn is 100% right on this one. The media has completely stonewalled this story and the blogosphere is picking up the slack. Kerry told this whopper on the floor of the Senate (among other places.)
    Kerry uses his .3 years on a swiftboat to slap down any and all criticism of his Senate voting record on national security. You’re not allowed to question his terrible Senate voting record on defense because he was in Vietnam. The Swifties story completely undermines Kerry’s sole national security credential.
    But rather than address this obviously-true allegation, the media has chosen to bury it. If the blogosphere doesn’t cover it, then who will? Re-read Glenn’s “snark” again and you’ll see that it’s anything but. Keeping the media in line is one of the things that makes the blogosphere exceedingly important.

  76. Brett Avatar
    Brett

    Franky,
    To your point about taking this outside the blogosphere, I’ve done exactly that. It’s pretty simple and it goes like this:
    “Kerry trumps up his war experience. He got three Purple Hearts in only 4 months for superficial wounds and at least one may be self-inflicted. He said that Nixon sent him to Cambodia on a secret mission, and he lied about the whole thing. Here are the links to prove it. Since he’s making this a central part of his campaign, it’s worth looking into.”
    The comments I get back from this are mostly “Thanks! Unbelievable…” because this is how Kerry defines himself to the world. So be it.
    You, Franky, on the other hand, play like the big media and tell a fragment of the story. “He said that he was in Cambodia for Christmas.” Like that’s the story. Error by omission, Franky.

  77. sum ting wong Avatar
    sum ting wong

    Can someone point out when it became conventional wisdom that the Bush/AWOL charges are “bogus” as Glenn Reynolds stated above?
    According to a 7/23 Reuters story titled “Bush’s Military Records Fail to Dispel AWOL Charges”:
    “The documents released on Friday by the Pentagon included two faded computerized payroll sheets showing Bush was not paid during the latter part of 1972 and offer no evidence to place Bush in Alabama during the latter part of 1972.”
    Google “The AWOL Project” and you can find lots more info about how Bush lied when he said that he completed his service honorably.
    The Kerry / Swift Vets story has already received more exposure in the MSM then the Bush / AWOL story received in 2000, but those that are complaining about pro Kerry bias seem to forget this.

  78. Franky Avatar
    Franky

    “http://www.ship.edu/~mwbibb/Accounts%20of%209-11%20Reveal%20Gaps,%20Inconsistencies.html”
    Here’s the WSJ article (I don’t have subscription so couldn’t get actual link from within the paper itself).
    “knowing much of F-9/11 is manipulated crap and still using it for inspiration to hope Bush loses” your call for the throwing out of “manipulated crap” would hold more weight if you had demanded that Bush clarify that there were no links between Al-Queda and Iraq before the war, instead of benefitting from a massive public ignroance on this issue (majorities thought Iraqis were on the 9/11 planes and majorities thought WMDS have been found in Iraq).
    “Bush has managed to destroy the Taliban”…that’s just not true. Sorry, no debate here, not a question of opinion, different points of view. The Taliban remain active.
    But regardless, staying on the topic. There are clear differences between Bush and Kerry and that is what we should be debating. This whole fluffle over Cambodia is nothing. It brings out the worst of the blogosphere: to nitpick, to steal Jeff’s phrase to scream “gotcha”.

  79. Scaramonga Avatar
    Scaramonga

    It is morbid curiosity that causes one to watch a dying animal squirm in its death throes. That is what we are witnessing now – due in part to the the Christmas in Cambodia master stroke – consider it the straw that broke the donkey’s back. We all owe the Swifties a deep debt of gratitude. They were – and are – the true heroes.
    PS: Wait until October

  80. Angus Jung Avatar
    Angus Jung

    “Kerry trumps up his war experience. He got three Purple Hearts in only 4 months for superficial wounds and at least one may be self-inflicted.”
    Let me save tony the trouble of responding: “how dare you say that about a decorated war hero.”

  81. Franky Avatar
    Franky

    Brett,
    “Error by omission, Franky” that’s not fair. That’s what instapundit’s post was about: Cambodia. Check there today. He says he checked the NYT and WP for the word “cambodia”.
    Regarding the larger accusations, that’s obviously well worthy of investigation. If there are legitimate questions about his entire service there, including faking wounds then that would obviously necessite his withdrawing from public life.
    But each of our takes on the Unfit to Command depends on how you see this. It looks to me like a slimejob armed with pretty shaky evidence, although I’m not covering this step by step, figuring that there will be a lot of back and forth in the coming days/weeks.

  82. plan b Avatar
    plan b

    If lying about military service is an important test of a person’s character, then look no further George W. Bush who claimed to fly with his national guard unit for “the next several years” when in reality it was only a year and a half.
    I agree that John Kerry has clearly made too much of an issue out of his service in Vietnam. His speech at the national convention was riddled with vietnam this and vietnam that. And everyone has a right to scrutinize his service. But he’s not the only candidate exagerating the specifics of his military service.
    Quite frankly, i wish John Kerry would shut up about vietnam. But the Vietnam War was one of the most significant recent events in American History. It still weighs on our collective consciousness, it still divides Americans to this day. We can’t make it go away. But i’d guess that more people will be concerned with the fact that while John Kerry may have “only” served 4 months in vietnam, Bush served 0 months in vietnam. So whether Kerry lied about being in cambodia, most people would still presume that Kerry knows a bit more about war and about being a soldier in a war than George W. Bush. A “coward” and a liar fighting in Vietnam is still risking his life for this country. Kerry, a Vietnam Veteran, deserves the same respect all veterans deserve.

  83. Ptolemy Avatar
    Ptolemy

    Exactly. The same respect ALL veterans deserve. Including the swift boat crews. Vietnam is a big issue to baby boomers but to more than half America’s population it isn’t even remembered much less mourned. Kerry just shows his age and irrelevance to modern problems. Most everything Bush has said about his military record has been forced by an ecstatic Dem party thinking they actually have something military over Repubs, and a lap dog press willing to research and inquisition the administration on it. What goes around comes around and the leftists who just couldn’t wait to put their “war hero” against the “cowardly guardsman” have to take it as well as they give it. The veterans against Kerry are just utilizing their free speech rights. Don’t shoot the messengers.

  84. Neil Avatar
    Neil

    It’s not that I don’t think Berger stealing documents isn’t newsworthy, it’s that the reason people even cared about that was the Instapundit-spin that it was obviously a ploy by Berger to save face over the Clinton years of inaction regarding terrorism. In effect, Berger was pulling a Watergate II type of operation, which as official reports have shown were obvioulsy not the case. It is this same vigor that is being used in his “revalation” of the truth about Kerry.

  85. Brett Avatar
    Brett

    Franky,
    Glenn’s post was absolutely about Cambodia. But to sum it up, as you told your friend (I’m quoting you), “That he was in Cambodia on Christmas day,” is error by omission. That’s not the story, as everyone here, and Glenn, point out.
    Both you and the press need to lose the white-out.
    I have no problem with genuine, fact-filled background information on candidates, no matter how old it is. Their history tells who they are and how they got to be the person they are.
    I have no problem with believing that people can change over time. They mature, they move on.
    Had Kerry come out and said, “You know, my memory wasn’t correct on that. I was wrong…” then I would have no issue with this. That shows a willingness to acknowledge the facts and call it reality, which is a grown-up thing to do.
    But to come out swinging at those who support their assertions with facts by smearing them personally is childish.
    If it’s okay to stare at Bush’s past and run big articles on it in the media, then it ought to be okay to do so with Kerry. Shouldn’t it, Franky? Why can’t a substantive disclosure of the facts be laid out on the table? Once done, then we move on to other things…
    Journalism should be about discovering and reporting the truth with no white-out. I’m thrilled that Glenn is not letting this issue die.

  86. Franky Avatar
    Franky

    Brett,
    I’ve outlined that the general charges certainly should be investigated. I can’t be clearer. But Instapundit is not really doing today and yesterday and is in fact dragging the whole thing down by dwelling on this reference to “Cambodia”.
    Further, journalism should be about discovering and reporting the truth. We’re agreed. But this looks suspiciously to me like one of those smears that are cleared up later, but the mud has stuck.
    If the media/population had a memory span longer than a goldfish, such smears would always rebound on the accuser. As it is, the accuser knows they’re safe.

  87. Tim Oren Avatar
    Tim Oren

    You’re off base, Jeff. You’re happy enough with citizens’ media when it challenges those you’d like challenged; what’s the difference here?
    Yes, I too would very much rather that the campaign featured GWB explaining articulately to the nation the logic beyond our ‘world historical gamble’, and the price we may have to pay to play it out. I would like to see JFK also laying out his own ground logic for our security, and introducing the specific team he would use to implement it. I think we both agree this would address the #1 issue at stake for the nation.
    We aren’t going to get it, alas. But, it was not the RNC, and not the bloggers that made Kerry decide to feature his Vietnam past as a major campaign issue. Once done, the verity of that past and its interpretation as a harbinger for his behavior in office is a mainstream issue, like it or not. As a professional journalist, let’s see you try and say it’s not a story, with a straight face.
    And yes, the apparent unwillingness of at least a portion of the mass media to follow that story where it leads, including doing its own investigation and diligence, is also a story. You’ve repetitively framed such differences as an example of the virtues of citizens’ media over mass media, and worthy of note and contemplation, and I agree with you. But if it’s sauce for Trent Lott, it’s also sauce for John Kerry.
    Your post says more about your own cognitive dissonance that its does about either Glenn Reynolds or John Kerry. Please reconsider.

  88. Mike Avatar
    Mike

    Plan B,
    Kerry didn’t just exagerate his service in Vietnam, he lied about on the Senate floor in an attempt to direct the foreign policy of the US. He lied about while testifying to congress about war crimes committed during the war. These are serious charges that don’t come off as a veteran embelishing his service.

  89. Mike Avatar
    Mike

    Franky, Kerry’s time in or not in Cambodia is the story. His story about Cambodia has changed 5 or 6 times. He used one of those versions during a speech decrying Reagan for his policies in Nicaragua. The blogoshere has been showing these inconsistencies over and over, it’s not just Instapundit. This is not a smear. Instapundit is asking for a search for the truth by the media and it’s not happening.

  90. david Avatar
    david

    Okay Jeff, I think your readers are calling you out. Will you pay attention to this story until it is determined, one way or another, if Kerry lied about Viet Nam? You are an advocate for the blog world to bring truth forward, where ever it takes us, are you up to that task, or is Stern the only person who deserves your attention? Time is running out, Jeff, I’ll only visit a few more days!

  91. Brett Avatar
    Brett

    Franky,
    Can you reconcile these two statements?
    “I’ve outlined that the general charges certainly should be investigated.”
    and-
    “But Instapundit… is in fact dragging the whole thing down by dwelling on this reference to ‘Cambodia.’”
    How can it be investigated by not looking at it? It’s not like Glenn trots the same information in each post.
    Are you suggesting the Cambodia is too specific and that only the “general” (broader?) charges should be investigated?
    Glenn’s profession is legal matters. Like journalism, a courtroom should be about a pursuit of the truth.
    How do you do that without disclosing and staring at the facts before you? I only see Glenn finding an issue in Kerry’s spoken history that has not conflicting eye-witness accounts but rather hard facts from which to study this. Less “he said/he said” and less ambiguity.
    That sounds like a great place to start an investigation. What’s wrong with that?
    Take that somewhat objective approach and juxtapose that with your subjective assertion: “this looks suspiciously to me like one of those smears that are cleared up later?”
    I’ll steer toward facts and investigation rather than hunches and conjecture.

  92. Robert E. Bihlmayer Avatar
    Robert E. Bihlmayer

    “I wonder if Jeff will address the questions posed to him here”
    HA! don’t you know he’s above that? you expect the former TV critic of the last-place newspaper of San Francisco to deign to respond to his hypocrisy being nailed to his own forehead, again and again and again?

  93. Franky Avatar
    Franky

    Harping on about Cambodia is not a particularly enlightening way to spend a day and seems petty. Examine his entire record and that’s legitimate. He made it central and if he lied about getting injured, then go for the jugular. This Unfit to Command seems like a put-up job, given the timing etc (why not when he was running for senator?), but I’m not wedded to this view and will happily retract my accusations of “sliming” and apologise to them if I’m proved wrong.
    Further to the media not covering this story.
    What do you want: a headline reading “Kerry was not in Cambodia for one day he claimed” you think that’s a story? Get a collection of these lies (such as the entire accusations of Unfit to Command being proved) and you have a story. One remark, even repeated on the floor of the Senate, does not a story make.
    Let me know when all is settled and then we can discuss anew.

  94. Mike Avatar
    Mike

    Franky, Kerry has used this story as the basis for his running for political office, for his criticizing the war in Vietnam and those who fought in it, as leverage to turn the tide of American foreign policy, and now as a reason for him to be elected President. I feel you are being extremely short-sighted on this if you can’t see that this a story.

  95. Ralph Phelan Avatar
    Ralph Phelan

    To me the Christmas in Cambodia business is best compared, not to anything Bush has said or done, but to when Reagan was caught using anecdotes in his speeches that had happened not to him, but to movie characters he had played.
    Reagan at least had the excuse that he had spent weeks or months playing these parts, so it’s understandable that his memory got confused. Kerry seems to mixing his own experience up with movies he just *saw*. To me this says his that his grip on reality is even weaker than the Gipper’s after the onset of Alzheimer’s. That’s pretty scary.
    Add the macho wierdness with carrying around an old moldy hat supposedly fom a CIA guy and going “bang” with his finger.
    Add the fact that he used the Cambodia thing not just for color like Reagan’s anecdotes, but as the central piece of evidence in a speech about how untrustworthy our government is.
    Given all that, this story is more significant than Reagan’s memory lapses were. So why is it getting *less* coverage? (Can’t be media bias, we all know that’s a myth.;-)

  96. Joe Reynolds Avatar
    Joe Reynolds

    Just for the record I searched CNN, ABC News, CBS News, and NBC with the words Kerry + Cambodia, bet you can’t guess how many stories about this on all of the sites combined. Does Zero ring a bell?

  97. Tom Paine Avatar
    Tom Paine

    jeff-o, I’ve criticized you mightily in the past, but in this case — bravo. Way to say the right thing.

  98. Tim Sisk Avatar
    Tim Sisk

    Ditto the points above about Kerry’s campaign making his Vietnam service the absolute central point of the campaign (although the “I’m not Bush” theme pops up from time to time). He’s not running on anything but his Vietnam service. Therefore, it is fully in play as a debatable and investigative issue.
    What makes the Bush AWOL story so bad was it should have been an issue THE LAST CAMPAIGN. Once you’ve elected a guy questions about his conduct before his election become pretty silly. It’s asking the question can Bush be a good commander-in-chief if he were a draft dodger and AWOL and ignoring his record as CIC. I never understood why the media took it up as an issue this election (would have been fair game last election).
    Let’s assume the worst allegations of Bush’s service were true. Why look for distant past conduct as a predictor for future service when you have a demonstration of his actual service? Why use conjecture when you have service to examine?

  99. Chris Josephson Avatar
    Chris Josephson

    Robert E. Bihlmayer said:
    “you expect the former TV critic of the last-place newspaper of San Francisco to deign to respond to his hypocrisy being nailed to his own forehead, again and again and again?”
    I disagree with Jeff’s point about Glenn ‘over reporting’ on the issues raised by the anti-Kerry vets. However, I give Jeff a lot of credit for allowing this conversation to take place here. He could cut us off. He could delete the unflattering comments. But he hasn’t. I think it speaks well of his integrity that he has allowed these comments to continue. Many blogs wouldn’t, unfortunately.
    As others have said, the ignoring of this story by the MSM is one of the PRIMARY REASONS why blogs are so valuable. Had something like this been about Bush, we’d never hear the end of it. Since it’s about Kerry, and the MSM favor Kerry, they try to ignore the issues raised by the vets and/or discredit the SwiftVets themselves.
    Perhaps Jeff has a difficult time seeing how important this is because he has been around the MSM too much and has the same attitudes many of them do regarding Kerry? I don’t know. I don’t know why Jeff can’t see why many of us are very interested in following this story. But, I don’t think it’s fair to call him names or accuse him of not being willing to listen. If he didn’t want to listen he wouldn’t have made the post he did and opened himself up for the barrage he’s getting.
    BTW .. For those who believe these issues are ONLY being talked about by people who visit blogs .. think again. The ‘blog readers’ DO talk to people. We inform them and give them facts to look up for themselves (most people have net access these days).
    Also, this is a huge issue with many vets. (Even the vets who don’t visit the web.)

  100. Annabel Delaunay Avatar
    Annabel Delaunay

    Aren’t you missing the point?
    It’s not so much what Kerry did or didn’t do nearly 40 years ago. The real concern is that it now seems quite evident that he has lied, and is lying, about his past in order to gain a political advantage. If Kerry had not chosen to embellish his war record because he believed that it would attract votes, then the matter would have not come up. He made the rules, now he and his supporters can hardly complain if his opponents play by them.
    I would have thought that the American experience with a recent noted Democratic Presidential liar would have taught a salutary lesson but it seems not.
    No one, in ordinary, everyday life, ever trusts a proven liar. Why should the American people be asked to trust one as their President?
    ‘Transplanted Yankee’

  101. Andrew | BB Avatar
    Andrew | BB

    Actually the press was not all over the AWOL story when it counted – when Bush was first running for president. Are we sure it was on the front page of the NYT. I don’t get the Times, so correct me.
    For the record, Bush wasn’t AWOL because he wasn’t charged with such. Simple as that. But there isn’t any honorable record there – that’s why Bush isn’t running on it.
    Glenn’s obsessed and it’s about Kerry. He had, like, three different posts with multiple updates on Kerry’s friggin daisy zipper pull. Please, the man is obsessed.
    Also, many of these claims cannot be substantiated – on either side. We do, however, have Kerry’s journal entires from that time. On the other side, we have vets – and idiot bloggers – saying that we weren’t in Cambodia, therefore Kerry couldn’t be in Cambodia, because the government says we weren’t.
    Yeah.
    These same people are mightily suspicious of “the government” usually. Why the difference?

  102. Andrew | BB Avatar
    Andrew | BB

    ALso “lost all respect for this blog”
    – what drama queens.
    What does MSM stand for by the way?

  103. Mike Avatar
    Mike

    Main Stream Media.

  104. Franky Avatar
    Franky

    Instapundit quotes approvingly of that dofus Hewitt:
    “An interesting juxtaposition: Scot Peterson’s lie to Amber Frey about being in Paris, and John Kerry’s lies to the Senate about being in Cambodia on Christmas Eve 1968.”
    My interesting comparison
    “An interesting juxtaposition: Instapundit’s love of writing and Hitler’s love of writing.”

  105. John Earnest Avatar
    John Earnest

    As I’m sure has been said above, it’s not whether Glenn Reynolds had a lot to say about N.G. (although he did), it’s the fact that for more than a month, daily the Networks, NYT, LAT, WaPo, BG, etc., ran stories that were virtual feeds of DNC talk points. And record, after record, after record was produced. And those worthy members of the media questioned (purely as rhetorical, journalisitc device, I’m sure) why no one had come forward, “tell us the truth Mr. President”, etc. Payback is hell, particuarly when it is on a matter of importance, about which there is substantial credible evidence to support the accusation(s). And the MSM’s hypocrisy is glaring.

  106. HA Avatar
    HA

    I caught the tail end of Chris Matthews hatchet job interview with John O’Neill last night. I think even John Kerry would have been more impartial. Matthews is a complete disgrace. I’m surprised he didn’t spit on O’Neill and denounce him as a baby-killer.
    The press has taken sides in this dispute. They are on the side of the pathological liar and confessed war criminal Kerry. In their eyes, Kerry redeemed himself by dishonoring his fellow soldiers and country as an anti-war leader. The vets who stayed behind and fought after Kerry bugged out were screwed over then by the left and the media, and they are being screwed over again today by the same scum.
    A democracy such as hours depends on an informed citizenry. Kerry has a chance to win this election for one reason – the dominant, illiberal, socialist media outlets blare news favorable to Kerry and bury news favorable to Kerry. And because of this, an unformed citizenry may be on the verge of electing the worst possible man at the worst possible moment. This country is in deep trouble.

  107. Pickles Avatar
    Pickles

    Everybody’s pretty much said it all. But Jeff, if you don’t want to read it, don’t go to Instapundit. Just like I’ve avoided yours (linked from another today after hearing about the comments) since you went nuts over Stern. Boring? Yes. To me. If you don’t like it, skip it.

  108. Mike Avatar
    Mike

    The problem is that Jeff has been one of the most outspoken bloggers when it comes to blogs picking up stories that the media doesn’t want to address. He trumpets the idea that blogs are the wave of the future and will keep the media in check. Except this story hurts his chosen candidate. The fact that the media is ignoring this story should enrage Jeff as much as it has enraged Glenn Reynolds, regardless of the topic. Come on Jeff, buck up, and address the questions and comments here.

  109. Tom Grey - Liberty Dad Avatar
    Tom Grey – Liberty Dad

    Jeff is quiet, like the press, hoping Kerry’s Lie will somehow “go away”. If he doesn’t mention it. Since he hates Bush enough to vote Kerry even if Kerry IS a liar, and the centerpiece of Kerry’s campaign is a LIE (Vietnam Hero against illegal war in Cambodia).
    There is NOTHING bigger in Kerry’s campaign that he could lie about! Jeff knows that any focus by anybody means more undecideds are likely to hear of this, and it means the Dems lose. Big.
    Sorry Jeff. Dems deserve it. Bush-hate in primaries meant the press did NOT do their job — vetting the Dem candidates. The SBVs were talking in May, YOU, Jeff Jarvis, were busy on Stern (supporting cursing) instead of questioning whether Kerry should be the nominee, if what the Vets were saying is true. It wasn’t too late to dump Kerry for Edwards; it is now.
    I really admire your help for Iran, and Iraq, and for getting the truth out with blogs. Maybe full honesty by Kerry now could save it, I don’t think so. This is a GREAT site. Jeff, you’ve done a GREAT job
    Kerry’s Lie was enabled by the press, ever since he formed Vietnam Vets against the War (was this his real purpose in joining? Shortcut to fame?). Your usual “blogs for truth vs. press-enabled lies” has met — Kerry’s Lie. Thus far for you, the press lie is winning…

  110. Lt Calley Avatar
    Lt Calley

    “The vets who stayed behind and fought after Kerry bugged out were screwed over then by the left and the media, and they are being screwed over again today by the same scum.”
    All Vietnam vets “were screwed over” by their own government for sending them into an illegal and savage war built on lies. The many vets, including Kerry, who described the many war crimes that took place deserve to be thanked for letting the American people know about the blood on our hands.

  111. papertiger Avatar
    papertiger

    What are the ramifications of Kerry’s lie?
    Was it an early hasty withdrawl from Vietnam ,which left the Vietnamese without the trained personal to defend their country? Nixon was keeping the North in check with bombings of their bases in Cambodia and Laos. Why they were in those countrys instead of Vietnam? Because Congress had created artificial safe zones for the Norths troops to run to.
    What kind of way is that to fight a war?
    It was Congress that revolked Nixon’s ability to provide bullets bandages and beans to South Vietnam. Why would they do that>
    Because John Kerry told them our people were baby killers very publicly, inciting riots(Kent State anyone) and public distrust. The congressmen wanted to be re-elected. So 18 months after we leave, South Vietnam falls. But not before a deadly infection of totalitarianism was fostered in Cambodia by the Morth Viets. That infection resulted in the Killing fields of the movie fame. A lucky few migrated to America. So few made it out. Is it a coincidence that 90% of Vietnamese Americans hate Kerry? Certainly new additions to our country would normally have a stake in the parade of entitlements a Democratic President is sure to produce. They hate him anyways. That tells you something about John Kerry.
    Were just talking about one lie here.

  112. Reid Avatar
    Reid

    “For the record, Bush wasn’t AWOL because he wasn’t charged with such. Simple as that. But there isn’t any honorable record there – that’s why Bush isn’t running on it.”
    This is the conventional wisdom that the liberals have striven mightily to spread but, it is wrong.

  113. Richard Cook Avatar
    Richard Cook

    If Kerry is starting his DNC speech with a salute and “reporting for duty” certain assumptions can be made……. Maybe its just a deversion while they develop a policy….on something….anything.