The media pundit's pundit. Written by NYC insider Jeff Jarvis, BuzzMachine covers news, media, journalism, and politics.
Tit for tat
: I didn’t care about the hooha hooey over Bush’s military work records just as I don’t care about the hooha hooey over Kerry and the swift boat vets. It’s all about trying to find a gotcha. It’s sniping. It’s not about running the country and improving the world. Enough already.
I would tend to agree with you if Kerry wasn’t trotting out his veterans that served with him every other day. Kerry has based his entire campaign on Vietnam, he has opened the door to this scrutiny.
I know you wish it would just go away. But it is a lot more serious than that. The allegations are that Kerry is a fake and a fraud. Kerry’s entire campaign is based on his character as evidenced by his nilitary service in Vietnam. Bush had to answer by releasing all his records, so let’s have Kerry’s. And let’s have the investigative journalists spend the same energy uncovering the truth of Kerry’s service record as they spent on Pres. Bush’s.
I know you wish it would just go away. But it is a lot more serious than that. The allegations are that Kerry is a fake and a fraud. Kerry’s entire campaign is based on his character as evidenced by his nilitary service in Vietnam. Bush had to answer by releasing all his records, so let’s have Kerry’s. And let’s have the investigative journalists spend the same energy uncovering the truth of Kerry’s service record as they spent on Pres. Bush’s.
The sum total of Kerry’s ideas about how he’s going to run the country and improve the world is to say that he served in Viet Nam for four months. Since his service in Viet Nam is virtually all he’s running on it’s, unfortunately, an important thing to examine.
Also, there are many, many Viet Nam vets who feel that Kerry personally slandered them during his anti-war activities by portraying them as all being deranged war criminals. It’s not my generation and it’s not my fight (thank God), but I certainly don’t begrudge these guys’ wanting their side of the story to be heard. If I were in their position and this guy was in the position to very possibly become president, I would probably do the same thing.
As has been said by others, this is clearly a different situation. Bush did not base his 2000 campaign on his National Guard service. Kerry, on the other hand, has virtually ignored his legislative record and instead held up his 4 months in Vietnam as the centerpiece of his qualifications to lead our country. He has, therefore, invited specific scrutiny. It would be irresponsible to fail to examine closely his conduct and performance during his time in Vietnam.
I, for one, hope that he is vindicated. While I hate the idea of his becoming President, I’d hate to think that he is as ethically and morally vacuous as these allegations suggest.
Well, I would like to know if the Vietnam anti-war movement’s quest for tearing America apart was based on testimony given by a soldier who claims the government was doing something it said it was not doing when it may be the case that the soldier was perhaps lying to Congress and the American public that he was actually not doing what he said he did.
My feeling is that Kerry’s lie about being in Cambodia may have perpetuated the sense that Republican governments alwaye lie to the people when this may not be that case at all.
Kerry used his ‘I was in Cambodia on Christmas 1968’ statement to attack both Nixon’s adminstration (even thought Nixon was not President in 1968) and again in 1986, against Reagan’s adminstration.
Now his story has conveniently changed to ‘I was NEAR Cambodia’.
Vietnam was an ugly time in American history, Kerry’s fabrications contributed to the ugliness.
Talk about being jerked around all these past thirty years. Kerry, were you in Cambodia Christmas 1968 or not? And if not, why did you debased and dishonor so many of your brothers-at-arms, what purpose has this served you and your political aspiration?
I get the sense that Kerry was the Michael Moore of Vietnam.
Sorry Jeff. I know you don’t want to hear anything that hurts your candidate, but Kerry has made Vietnam the centerpiece of his campaign. So Vietnam is not only on the table, it’s an important indicator his fitness for command.
Be honest Jeff: For years, Kerry made this cock and bull story about being sniped at in Cambodia and being angry at the President for denying they were there- that was the turning point towards his anti-war stance. But the Swift Vets have proof he was’t there! And the Kerry campaign even changed their story to “he was near Cambodia” which is NOT THE SAME, NOT BY A LONG SHOT. (see instapundit for details)
So be honest Jeff, doesn’t this give you pause? The guy has been peddling this lie- even on the Senate floor- for decades! Don’t be an idiot. You voted for Gore and only now realize what a bad choice you made. Will you repeat your mistake again? Stop acting like a dammed liberal and act like an American!
Kerry should release all of his records. Like he demanded Bush do.
Hypocrite
Yeah, if his Vietnam service weren’t the cornerstone of his campaign, I would agree with you.
here’s the difference, jeff: if Bush was away from the National Guard for more than 30 days, thats what the military calls Desertion.
and if you are a Deserter during wartime then you can get several years in jail or the Death Penalty.
you may not care, but i care when the president may be eligible for the Death Penalty. especially this President who has executed over 100 people who were on Death Row.
i think they call that irony.
the other reason i care, and you should too, is… like Martha Stewart and Bill Clinton, it’s not the act that damned these people, it’s the lying and the cover-ups that sent Stewart to jail and Clinton into his impeachment
similarily the destruction of military records and/or the hiding of public records so as not to expose the president for being a cowardly deserter are quiet possibly crimes happening TODAY.
like you, i don’t care if dubya snorted coke, or drank him self silly, or peed his pants cuz he was scared about going to Nam (or the Guard) thirty years ago; but abusing his power while Gov. or Pres to bury or hide military records in this century is not only a crime that should be punished but a glaring character flaw that induces a heavy dose of mistrust upon his “leadership”.
this isnt just a bit of confusion about wmd or no wmd. gwb either deserted or he didn’t. and to have Nobody in the military capable to vouch for your whereabouts for three months during wartime while you were probably out on a really fun bender is one thing, but lying to the american people about it and covering it up is definately different.
if it’s not different, i think we, your readers, would like to hear how it’s not different, and no big deal.
Kerry’s Vietnam story has smelled for years. How could the most cowardly of politicians be brave on the battlefield? It just doesn’t add up. Now it’s beginning to. He was a Brahmin on the make in VN and he scammed the system. He volunteered for swift boats when their duty was non-hazardous, only to find that their mission was changed soon after he got there. So he decided the 3 PHs was his best way out. Along the way he was given a Silver Star for doing something most soldiers did every day, shoot the enemy. I know a guy who won two Silver Stars in Korea and that incident was in no damn way Silver Star material.
Instead of using a “527” political group to finance a hatchet book to besmirch John Kerry’s Vietnam record, President Bush (and Rove) should assemble a bunch of guys who served with him in the Texas Air National Guard to praise his ability and character while in uniform (like Kerry did).
Michael, that would be a good idea if Bush was running his campaign based on his military record.
As a former Marine, I wouldn’t go to any special trouble to highlight my 8 years of service as a reason to elect me. My tour was relatively benign (oh yeah, I missed a duty once too but, like Bush, made up the time later) and although I served my country honorably, there’s not much there besides fixing a lot of aircraft.
Also, good luck finding those receipts from Rove paying the SBVFT. Because without those, you’re arguments that they’re funded by the Bush campaign is tin-foil material.
> Instead of using a “527” political group to finance a hatchet book
You really want to start counting 527 groups and books?
Paging Mr. Soros.
Bush doesn’t have to run on a 30 year old record of little relevance as Kerry does. He doesn’t need to drag up several men to sing to him at every campaign stop. Bush ran on his record up to the election. Why can’t Kerry?
People would believe the ShiftyVets a lot more if the Republican slime machine had not spent most of the 90’s going after Clinton, going after McCain in the Republican primaries, going after Gore with lie after lie (as chronicled by the DailyHowler), then going after Max Cleland…the right has cried wolf too many times to ever be taken seriously.
Jeff how come no opinion about the Journalists laughing at Bush last week. I just wonder if his last name was not BUSH and was instead Gerald Ford Jr. if the Republican would still support this moron.
David, you’ve got some froth on you chin.
Imagine if Bill Clinton’s 1992 candidacy had to contend with the blogosphere…
With all the fact checking, I’m not sure that he would have become president. In declaring himself a candidate, Kerry never counted on being exposed. Which shows that he knows little about Google, the Internet, or citizen media.
How this fares for future politicians is the most important lesson of all. In the meantime, let the public have its voice about a guy whose house of cards reputation is crashing around him. How dare these people question such an important man…
History will relate how MacAuliffe pissed away any chance when he made the AWOL rumor an official issue instead of just not talking about it and letting it simmer.
Sharp as a Marble:
Andy Freeman:
Shark:
All I’m saying is the approach I suggested would be taking the moral high road (irrespective of Kerry’s behavior), and would probably moot Kerry’s one-upmanship on the subject of military service. Besides, it
you may not care, but i care when the president may be eligible for the Death Penalty. especially this President who has executed over 100 people who were on Death Row.
tony:
The State of Texas, the juries that convicted and passed the death sentence and the appeals courts that reviewed and refused to overturn their death sentences were all a bigger part of the process than Governor Bush. Ever thought of that?
I’m still trying to wrap my mind around the first part of your utterance….the president may be eligible for the Death Penalty….on second thought, never mind.
Trust me the Democrat slimes would have found evidence of Bush’s desertion one election cycle past. But, what’s it matter, tony, when you’ve got a lifetime to expound on that thought.
Bush has nothing to do with the Swift Vets. They barely have any financing, except from 1 Republican-affiliated homebuilder. Not exactly Sciafe or Soros money, know what I mean?
Bottom line- Kerry made the military the issue. Both what he did and what Bush didn’t do. So Kerry’s time in Vietnam is very fair game.
All kerry has given us is Vietnam.
And now it’s in dispute.
Too bad for him.
As for taking the “moral high road”…….nah. Doesn’t work, not in politics
Michael, I think you’re missing the point here. Bush has not made, nor did he ever make his military service central to his campaign. He is running on his record as President now, as he should. And there are plenty of “527” groups attacking Bush on that. You would have to expect this sort of “527” group opposing Kerry if his Vietnam service is going to be his answer for everything.
onecent,
the fact of the matter is that america has found their president lacking the records that he and his people have told us over and over that they have.
all the prez needs to do is cough up the records.
it’s pretty simple.
meanwhile he is the one who looks like slime.
Jeff,
I came to the same conclusion a couple days ago.
Regards,
I’m somewhat in agreement, what happened 30-35 years ago shouldn’t be driving decisions. At the same, I do care about what Senator Kerry stated in interviews as recently as 2003. Did he or did he not accompany a CIA agent into Cambodia on Christmas Eve 1968?
It would be ironic if the Bush-Lied/People-Died crowd elected a self-serving fabulist. It seems that only recently this country poo-pooed the Clinton womanizing stories only to watch his very same actions nearly bring down the Presidency. With this country at war, I want a President who has his head on straight.
And, I’m sorry, for a grown man to be carrying around a good luck hat stemming from his 4 months of service in Vietnam, a service he disavowed as an prominent anti-war activist, is weird.
I’m still registered as a Democratic, sorely tempted to write in Tony Blair for President. I do sincerely hope Kerry releases his military records in their entirety and establishes once and for all that his occasional embellishment did not cross the line into outright falsehoods.
Kerry Lied, People Pushed It Aside!
Yes, let’s not mention anything Kerry ever did (didn’t do?) in Vietnam, or in his 20 years in the Senate. Because that would never have any impact on anything he would do as president, right?
Folks here and elsewhere keep cycling through the “it doesn’t matter” versus “Kerry is making a big deal out of his service” loop. I would ask, “If Kerry apparently thinks his service is his best qualification, but I don’t care about it, why am I supporting him?” Is it the indiscriminate smearing of his fellow soldiers as a leader of the anti-war movement that draws me to him? Is it the Senate record that he doesn’t want to debate? Is it a desire to wallow in the illusion that if we let up in our war effort, the terrorists will just go away? What is it, exactly?
For tony and others: Bush released his records, and his version of events has been confirmed. More here.
Waiting for Kerry to do the same. . . .
I think the ultimate fact of the matter is President Bush and his political team are deeply troubled that John Kerry has by any measure a war hero
tony, looks like you got your answer from yehudit.
the president looks like a slime? kerry made his less than illustrious war record the centerpiece of his acceptance speech in effect asking the public to examine it. it looks like we are. kerry stated on more than one occasion that he was in cambodia in ’68 and no record of that exists.
maybe, tony, with a lot of work on google or lexus/nexus, you can help kerry find that record.
also, think it strange that your hero racked up medals, but was never hospitalized for any injuries?
how about solving that mystery for us too?
I think the ultimate fact of the matter is President Bush and his political team are deeply troubled that John Kerry has by any measure a war hero
The penumbra of the flash firefight surrounding Kerry in Vietnam is that he gamed the system.
Taking his own movies re-enacting his battles and doing mock interviews with self adds icing to the suspicion that he wrote his own award recommendations. He left Vietnam early to run for Congress, not because of 3 Purple Hearts.
The appearance of lying, being slick and finding a way to have his cake and eat it also never goes away.
Appearance IS Reality. Isn’t it?
Do Clinton rules apply to Kerry?
Why did Kerry bring up Vietnam?
onecent:
The link you provided leads to a dubious site with an except from “Unfit to Command.” This book has been fairly well discredited as a political hatchet job that even Sen. John McCain called “DISHONEST AND DISHONORABLE” and called on President Bush to DENOUNCE.
Even White House spokesperson Scott McClennan said the president does NOT take issue with Kerry’s war record.
“Dubious”? Try again. More than 250 veterans who served in swift-boats have called him a liar. You think they are all partisan hacks?
I’ll take first hand accounts against the records Kerry will never produce. Think he’ll find anyone to come forward to corroborate his Cambodia story? Doubt it.
It’s pretty hilarious that Bush, who can’t show evidence that he was even IN the National Guard, is trying to go after Kerry on this issue. These guys have no shame whatsoever. And Cheney, with his “other priorities” and Rumsfeld. The only member of their administration to serve in Vietnam is Powell, completely marginalized and ignored
Ironic isn’t the word
I have to disagree. Kerry’s whole campaign has been “judge me on my Vietnam record,” since he barely has mentioned his post-war political career. He claims that his Vietnam experience defines his character.
The only problem with that is that his narrative has internal inconsistencies, such as the “Christmas in Cambodia” stories, in which he has told various people at various times that he was in Cambodia on Christmas Eve 1968, but at other times he has claimed to have been in the town of Sa Dec, South Vietnam, on that date, some 55 miles from the Cambodian border. The stories are in print archives and the Congressional Record from 1986. The Swift Vets say that Kerry couldn’t possibly have been in Cambodia on that date, and nobody who was on Kerry’s boat corroborates his story.
Now, you might say, “So what! It’s tit-for-tat politics as usual, why should I care?” Because it goes to the core of Kerry’s character. CHARACTER MATTERS. We don’t need a another president with Clinton’s morals but without his roguish charm. The allegations in the Swift Vets book need to be investigated by the mainstream media to determine if they have any veracity or not, rather than just trying to smear the Swift Vets or cover up the problem, as I think the mainstream media are far more likely to do.
Bush has shown what info is available. There is talk of his hiding or destroying files but has anything actually been proven on that? Kerry won’t release his records. Why will he not release his records? Bush has said nothing about Kerry’s war record and did so perhaps because of insecurity over his own past military issues. The attacks Kerry is enduring (finally) are being performed by private citizens. You blame Bush because you can’t admit that it is the people who are slamming your false campaign of militarism. How do you assume that you talk of nothing but Vietnam but don’t have to back yourself up when contridictions come into play. You want the investigation stopped? Shut up talking about his bravery and service in Vietnam. You brought this on yourselves. You sold your souls to a campaign of dismissing his actual government experience in favor of having his used a gun in a war most on the left once hated and despised. Amazing what some people will swallow in desperation. Did November of ’02 teach you nothing?
BarCodeKing sez, “CHARACTER MATTERS.” Unfortunately there is now ample evidence, both empirical and anecdotal, to suggest that a person’s character does not matter to Democrats, especially the character and behavior of fellow Democrats, whether they are elected or not. Don’t think so? Just ask Geraldo Riveria or Maureen Dowd.
I personally believe this lack of concern comes straight from the Democrats loss of power over the last 30 years and their elitist flirtation with moral relativism. And both of those situations are sure as hell making ’em crazy.
I agree. Let’s talk the future. Does Bush support the plan that Hastert is pushing to abolish the IRS and institute a national sales tax?
Could it get passed? Would it work if it were passed?
Karl: you forgot kerry’s most important qualification: He’s not Bush! Harharharhar!
Bush Cheney and the rest of the organized crime gang don’t care about improving the world. They only care about getting control of it. We poor people cannot even imagine the kind of money the Cronies in Washington have stuck in there pockets in the las 40 months. Maybe 4 or 5 trillion. Maybe that is why our Federal General fund went from 400 billion positive to every reserve emptied, every IRA and 401K in America being robbed and total depetion of our cash.
I wish I could go to Washington steal the Presidency. Steer a country to war for profit usning Saudi money and reap a couple trillion in the process. What a criminals dream. An used a complete idiot for a front man.
Face up that is what has happened.
Kerry is the msot genuine person I ever seen. He sells food for a livin g not Bradley Fightign Vehicles. Kerry makes his own money he does’nt have to steal if from the gneral fund.
Kerry has no motive to be President except to help. Just like he had no motivation to go to vietnam but to help.
Bush has no motivation for President but two things. The Carlyle Group and Haliburton well one other thing his own personal pocket.