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One America, two Americas… aw, who’s counting?

45 comments on One America, two Americas… aw, who’s counting?

One America, two Americas… aw, who’s counting?

: After hearing the eloquent and embracing Obama speech the night before last declaring that we are, after all, one United States of America, I was amused at reports that Edwards was going to recycle much of his “two Americas” shtick from the primaries. So which is it: One America or two? Edwards ended up soft-pedaling his divided America theme and I’m glad for it. The problem with the campaign and so much around it (see: Fahrenheit 9/11) is the effort to divide us from within. The winner in this election will be the man who brings us together.

45 responses to “One America, two Americas… aw, who’s counting?”

  1. hugh macleod Avatar
    hugh macleod

    Amen!

  2. David Avatar
    David

    Edwards is saying there is a “two america” one in which we have politicans asking “are YOU (their special interests) better off than you were four years ago” when we should be asking “are WE better off than we were four years ago.” Obama made the same case but you’d rather make a snide remark rather than examine the two speeches for their similarities.
    I find it funny that you seem to be giddy over Scott Simon going after Michael Moore while the Obama speech got a lukewarm response from you. Here’s a speech I was sure you’d be jumping up and down over it but rather you say it’s “eloquent” and leave it at that.
    You say you want

  3. Angus Jung Avatar
    Angus Jung

    “I just watched Obama’s keynote on MSNBC. He is good: a star made. He gave an eloquent and positive expression of liberalism. And I am glad that someone is speaking positively about America at a time when we need that, when we are under attack for being America and when we are too often attacking ourselves.”
    Yep, lukewarm!

  4. david Avatar
    david

    >winner in this election will be the man who >brings us together.
    The American people came together on our own after 9/11 and the great tragedy is Bush and Co. did everything after that to divide us again. You failing to see that is truly amazing to me.
    If Bush and Co. were not able to “unite us” after one of the greatest tragedies any of us will ever see in our life what exactly makes you think he will EVER be able to unite us?

  5. Robert S. Avatar
    Robert S.

    If some can’t keep two metaphors straight, then that’s neither Edwards’s nor Obama’s fault.
    Obama was speaking of one America defying political demarcations. We’re all Americans, and that matters more than any party affiliation.
    Edwards was speaking about two Americas caused by the increasing gulf between the rich and poor.
    You’re making an apples and oranges comparison.

  6. mm Avatar
    mm

    There are two Americas: those who blog/comment anonymously, and those who blog/comment with (some type of) name attached. Perhaps Jeff will help us unite these two Americas by ending his prejudice against the former.

  7. Robert S. Avatar
    Robert S.

    There are also those who divide everything into two groups and those who don’t. Those who don’t are probably in the great minority, ‘cos, let’s face it, it’s pretty dern irresistable!

  8. Apex Avatar
    Apex

    This is very interesting, but why are you (and most everyone else) ignoring Al Sharpton? The biggest reactions were not for Obama but for Sharpton. THAT is the politics we will be voting for.
    Edwards: Class warfare – democrats love him
    Sharpton: Class warfare – democrats love him
    Kerry: not so much class warfare – “better than Bush”

  9. Robert S. Avatar
    Robert S.

    When conservatives resort to describing the act of standing up for the poor and needy as “class warfare,” not only is the term simplistic rhetoric/propaganda, it reflects an attitude that approaches misanthropy.

  10. shark Avatar
    shark

    The winner in this election will be the man who brings us together.
    Grow up. The winner in this election will be the candidate who’s positions on terrorism and the economy appeal to the largest number of people.
    Sorry Jeff, but there can be no unity with a party who embraces Michael Moore and Bush=Hitler.
    You want unity? Start with the Dems…

  11. Michael Zimmer Avatar
    Michael Zimmer

    “You want unity? Start with the Dems…”
    There can’t be unity with those who point fingers, either.

  12. Robert S. Avatar
    Robert S.

    Who needs to grow up? This sentiment is just as juvenile: there can be no unity with a party who embraces Michael Moore and Bush=Hitler.
    You can play that dumb game all day long:
    There can be no unity in the party which embraces Anne Coulter and Kerry=Che Guevera . . .
    There can be no unity in the party of Rick Santorum and Kerry=Stalin
    etc, etc, etc,

  13. David Avatar
    David

    Sharky;
    there can be no unity when you have the likes of grover northquist who believe bipartisanship is like date rape, that taxes are like the holocaust, and local RNC members who are proud to sell bumper stickers saying “Kerry is Osama’s man, Bush is mine”
    I’ll tell you the only way we will be “united” again is if a terrorist attack takes place in a BUSH administration the democrats will rally around the president BUT if an attack occurs in a Kerry administration the Rethugs will want to lynch the two Johns.

  14. GCW Avatar
    GCW

    David,
    A fair portion of Americans support the President.
    By using the term “Bush and Co.” you are alienating those who support him. Your statement is the kind of thing that divides people–the very thing you claim to detest.

  15. billg Avatar
    billg

    Fourty years ago, someone could be a “conservative Republican” and retain their dignity and honesty. Since then, beginning with Nixon’s “Southern strategy”, the Republican Party has deliberately transformed itself into a place of comfort and succor for every American who opposed — and still opposes — the civil and social reforms of the Sixties and Seventies. (Where do you think the racists who fled the Democrats in the Sixites went?)
    The Republicans stand for many things, and count many fine people among their adherents. Their policies are not complete anathema. But, they continue to cynically and divisively manipulate the issues of race and class to further their interests.
    Republican leaders may be quite sincere when they preach to their constituency about”family values” and such, but they are waving the same flag waved by racists of an earlier time who ranted about the “purity of the race”. Same flag, same fears, same objective, just different words.
    George Bush may be sincere when he speaks of his religious beliefs. But, when I see Bush and other right-wing Republicans speak of religion, culture and family, I hear people like Strom Thurmond, George Wallace and Richard Nixon pushing the buttons of racial and cultural fear and bigotry.
    Until honest Republicans reclaim their party, until the Republican Party is liberated from the control of people who follow in Nixon’s footsteps, until the Republican Party purges itself of those believe America belongs to one kind of person with one belief system, I can’t foresee any circumstance in which I will vote for their presidential candidate.

  16. Mike Avatar
    Mike

    billg, your entire post is disgusting and indefensible. It sickens me to read it and then to realize that you actually believe this bile you just wrote. You have displayed the exact type of dishonesty, divisiveness, and negativity that personifies wing-nut idealogues on either side of the political spectrum.

  17. Jared Avatar
    Jared

    I think Edwards’ two Americas and Obama’s one America can be reconciled rather easily. The goal of both Obama and Edwards is to have one United America…
    Edwards is saying we can have it but we have work to do… something I bet Obama would agree with.
    Obama notes that in many places there are those who want to make more than one American , his view is that we should be or are one America.
    They’re both giving the same message of unity, just from different angles, I think people who try to say they are in conflict are just doing that to create a conflict that isn’t really there.

  18. Robert S. Avatar
    Robert S.

    exactamundo Jared – any they’re using the metaphors to describe two entirely different things anyway

  19. billg Avatar
    billg

    Sorry you feel that way, Mike. I came of age in the Sixties, saw how the bigotry and fear of so many found a home in a Republican framework delberately crafted to accommodate those most reprehensible facets of American society. I haven’t changed and neither have the Republicans. It’s very difficult to forgive or forget, but hen the Republican Party gives up their deliberate attempt to divide this nation by race, religion and culture, I’m ready to pay attention.

  20. shark Avatar
    shark

    “The only thing this country has to fear is 4 more years of George Bush!”- Ted Kennedy
    Yeah, you can really count on the Dems rallying around the Pres if heaven forbid something happens…..not.
    Cite all the trivial crap you want, when you have a party in bed with the Bush=Hitler crowd, that trumps all of it.
    The Dems are fricking loony with rage. Compromise with moonbats is inadvisable at best impossible at worst.
    The Dems are the problem. Deal with it.

  21. shark Avatar
    shark

    I hear people like Strom Thurmond, George Wallace and Richard Nixon pushing the buttons of racial and cultural fear and bigotry.
    Do you want to remind me again which party has a cross-burning sheet-wearing KKK member in the Senate?
    Thanks for playing

  22. anne.elk Avatar
    anne.elk

    Shark outs himself as troll through her deceptive manipulations of language: which party has a cross-burning sheet-wearing KKK member in the Senate?
    Shark, since you’re a right wing nutcase, I assume you’re referring to Robert Byrd, who last was a member of the KKK over 60 years ago and later apologized for it.
    So while you want us all to parse the meaning of “has”, I’ll just thank you for playing instead.

  23. Bob Avatar
    Bob

    “The only thing this country has to fear is 4 more years of George Bush!”- Ted Kennedy
    “”To those who scare peace-loving people with phantoms of lost liberty, my message is this: your tactics only aid terrorists.” John Ashcroft
    Bush=Hitler
    Kerry=Stalin
    moonbats
    wingnuts
    blah, blah, blah

  24. david Avatar
    david

    Tick tock…tick tock…still waiting for Mr. Jarvis to explain how W will be able to unite us if he hasn’t been able to do it after one of the greatest tragedies of our lives.

  25. Mike Avatar
    Mike

    david,
    maybe you would like to explain how Kerry would unite us?
    And not to speak for Jeff, I’m not sure if you are new here, but Jeff has said on numerous occasions that he will not be voting for GWB. He has yet to explain his rationale for either candidate though.

  26. billg Avatar
    billg

    Shark, pay attention to anne.elk. I’ll just add that Byrd’s position is ethically and intellectually superior to those Republicans who deliberately stir the same fires of hate and racism as the KKK, but who wear a dark suit rather than a white robe.

  27. david Avatar
    david

    Mike;
    I won’t kid you Kerry will have a hard time uniting the country also. I’d even say if god forbid there is a terrorist attack even a day after Kerry gets into office the Rethugs will be ready to lynch him. What Kerry will do (or at least has a better chance of doing) is go back to the UN and get support for other countries to send in their troops. Will it be easy for that to occur? NO but at least it will be a better chance than if W is still in office.
    I’m still wondering why Jarvis thinks W can ever unite the country when he has failed to do so already.

  28. shark Avatar
    shark

    Shark, pay attention to anne.elk. I’ll just add that Byrd’s position is ethically and intellectually superior to those Republicans who deliberately stir the same fires of hate and racism as the KKK, but who wear a dark suit rather than a white robe.
    Pay attention to Anne.elk? HAHAHAHAHAHA, seriously…
    So let me get this straight- you feel that the position of a known Klansman is superior to those to who you can only attribute racism- but have no real proof?
    Wow. That is some messed up thinking you have there.
    I assume you’re referring to Robert Byrd, who last was a member of the KKK over 60 years ago and later apologized for it.
    Well, if that’s all it takes, why all the big deal over Trent Lott in that case, especially in light of Lotts dumb remarks being much less hurtful than belonging to the KKK. Also, you’re saying that denouncing someone because they’re a
    “sheet-wearer” and a “cross burner” makes me a right-wing troll? Do you people ever stop and actually think about what you write?

  29. shark Avatar
    shark

    “The only thing this country has to fear is 4 more years of George Bush!”- Ted Kennedy
    “”To those who scare peace-loving people with phantoms of lost liberty, my message is this: your tactics only aid terrorists.” John Ashcroft
    Wow. More messed up thinking. On the 1st one, Teddy Kennedy is clearly trumpeting the Democrat point of view- that GWB is the biggest enemy, nothing else matters. Pretty psychotic in this day and age, isn’t it? (If GWB is the enemy, why all th security in Boston? Hmmm….)
    What Ashcroft is decrying (and you damn well know it too, but why bother with intellectual honesty when you can try to score a cheap point) are the disgraceful tactics of hysteria and lies that being floated to weaken or destroy the PATRIOT act….which WOULD aid terrorists. Read the 9/11 report. Remember that FBI/CIA “wall” that helped the terrorists get away with it? Knocked down by PATRIOT.
    Anyway, I demand you show me proof of the Republicans jumping into bed with the “Kerry=Stalin” crowd (is there even such a crowd? Doubtful, show proof of that. And if they do exist, I’m sure it’s nowhere near the Bush=Hitler magnatude since MoveOn and George Soros are the prime believers of such a meme.
    As I said, any party that can have Michael Moore in the Presidential Box during it’s convention is the problem. Any party that actually has people like Anne.elk and billg who would defend a KKK member is the problem. Period.

  30. billg Avatar
    billg

    Shark, I will make the not unwarranted assumption that you weren’t alive, much less an adult, during the sixties and seventies. As such, you weren’t around to watch how the Republican Party deliberately began to transform itself from the party of honorable leaders like Rockefeller, Goldwater, and Eisenhower into a party that engaged in blatant fearmongering and race-baiting to secure votes. Nixon took one look at the votes that went to George Wallace and, as one would expect from such a moral cretin, stepped deeply into the muck and the mud. The Republicans have not yet corrected their direction.
    Byrd’s earlier racism is irrelevant. Today’s racism is very relevant. The Republican Party continues to sustain and encourage racism and fear in order to win votes.

  31. Ptolemy Avatar
    Ptolemy

    billg, that sin is very much a Dem issue today. Repubs are too scared because of reputation to allow anywhere near them. There is no David Duke at the GOP conventions though Al Sharpton fits in only too well with the Dems. Ms McKinney from Georgia will add such grace to political debate this coming year as well but of course you are able to overlook that. Who was the hag who yelled at the hispanic official about “all you white guys look alike to me”? Bill Clinton was the only Dem with the integrity to call out black racism issues and on their own turf. The cynical cowards leading the present Dem party would debate Farrakan if he demanded it and would show him nothing but respect. You’re looking the wrong way to find the big racists. But the left always looks the wrong way (America -evil, Soviet Union – good, etc)

  32. billg Avatar
    billg

    Ptolemy, you disgrace the man who’s name you have usurped. Anyone who can equate the racism and terrorism of the KKK and David Duke with someone like Al Sharpton is a fatuous poseur. How many people has Sharpton lynched? How many children has Sharpton prevented from going to school? How many houses has Sharpton burned? How many people has Sharpton murdered?
    Of course, the Republicans won’t let Duke near their convention. Is that the best you can say for them? That they won’t invite a racist hatemonger to their convention? In years past, they wouldn’t have allowed Duke’s comrades-in-hate Hitler and Mussolini to attend either. Am I supposed to be impressed?
    Sharpton speaks with a fiery tongue. Too bad that offends you. Too bad he won’t make you comfortable by shuffling his feet and saying, “Yassir, massuh…”, as you so obviously prefer.
    When the rest of us were reading the Declaration of Independence, you must have been reading Mein Kampf.

  33. Ptolemy Avatar
    Ptolemy

    Stop! Stop! Your “blistering” condemnation is too much. You proved my point about ignoring the hate on your side of the political spectrum. How many people has David Duke murdered. I understood that Sharpton was involved in an incident that caused the death of a shop owner/worker in Harlem because he was pissed about a white owned business moving in. Hey, you want to be Farrakan’s bitch go for it. You don’t solve a problem with half the equation or did you never take Algebra? What are your thoughts on Cynthia McKinney by the way? Do you have the guts to answer?

  34. John Barrett Jr. Avatar
    John Barrett Jr.

    “How many houses has Sharpton burned?”
    Indirectly, Freddy’s Fashion Mart.
    I also noticed you neglected to mention that David Duke entered electoral politics as a Democrat. Strictly an oversight on your part, I’m sure.

  35. Ptolemy Avatar
    Ptolemy

    Thanks for being predictable and throwing the racism charge against me. I’d never believe you were a Dem if you hadn’t. I give respect and I expect the same. I won’t settle for anything less. You take on you liberal white burden. That very act shows the contempt you feel for minorities. Why wouldn’t you hold every body to the same standard. Aren’t blacks your equal. Are they not as capable of sin? Or are you just scared shitless of them like the leadership (which is excessively white, male, and rich by the way). The only one dancing and shuffling is you Opey.

  36. Michael Avatar
    Michael

    Shark:
    GWB and John Ascroft are the single greatest danger to America’s freedom, even considering terrorism.
    And, John Ascroft is a fundementalist Christian fanatic who sees biblical implications in the Patriot Act, the terrorist attacks and the Mid-East wars. (Bush just says he does, he believes in royalty over religion.)

  37. Andrea Harris Avatar
    Andrea Harris

    billg intoneth:
    “But, when I see Bush and other right-wing Republicans speak of religion, culture and family, I hear people like Strom Thurmond, George Wallace and Richard Nixon pushing the buttons of racial and cultural fear and bigotry.”
    Your seeing dead people instead of the live people actually speaking is your psychological problem, not ours.
    “I came of age in the Sixties….”
    Hello, it’s the 21st century now. The Sixties are nearly fifty years ago. All you are saying is the same thing your generation accused the “squares” of: you live in the past, your beliefs are irrelevant and/or reactionary, and so on. (By the way, to stave off another “you kids these days” episode from you, I was born in 1963. I came of age in the Seventies, and got to endure the Carter hilarity, not to mention the wonderful “me and my needs” culture that the wonderful Sixties gave us. Thanks, hippies!

  38. billg Avatar
    billg

    Ptolemy, Andrea: The Republican Party has been deliberately currying the favor of the worst side of America for decades. If you think that believing in freedom and democracy is running scared or living in a fictional past, then you are obviously sad victims of of the venal lies Republicans have been spewing for years. (Andrea obviously ignores the fact that the sixties was the decade that secured the rights and liberties of millions of Americans. She chooses to focus on the indulgent behavior of those who valued their own comfort more than the welfare of others, but that is, after all, a common Republican attribute.)
    Everything Republicans do is intended to secure the support of white Americans who want to go back to the 1950’s, when America just pretended it believed in freedom and democracy for everyone. The Republicans were once the party of Lincoln. Now they’re the party of Nixon and Regean.

  39. onecent Avatar
    onecent

    Byrd’s earlier racism is irrelevant. Today’s racism is very relevant.
    Gotta be the single most stupid irreconcilable sentences uttered in the same breath.
    How many children has Sharpton prevented from going to school? How many houses has Sharpton burned? How many people has Sharpton murdered?
    Indirectly a few. Deaths occured in the racial riot he instigated. Sharpton’s a pimping race hustler whose shtick is waning. In the North Carolina primary he received 10% of the black vote. He’s trotted out by the Democrats from time to time to race bait so fools like yourself can get a buzz. It’s in Dems self-interest to foment racial divisions or he wouldn’t be a speaker at their convention.
    Basically, billg, most of what you’ve written is nonsense. Pick better heros if you want to bash Republicans better.

  40. h0mi Avatar
    h0mi

    there can be no unity when you have the likes of grover northquist who believe bipartisanship is like date rape, that taxes are like the holocaust, and local RNC members who are proud to sell bumper stickers saying “Kerry is Osama’s man, Bush is mine”

    Bipartisanship is hard when the idea of “compromise” is 1 side asking for the world, the other side acceeds to 1/3rd, and the 1st side attacks the other for “extremism”.

    I’ll tell you the only way we will be “united” again is if a terrorist attack takes place in a BUSH administration the democrats will rally around the president BUT if an attack occurs in a Kerry administration the Rethugs will want to lynch the two Johns.

    Referring to Republicans as “rethugs” isn’t a good start or a compelling argument.

  41. billg Avatar
    billg

    onecent: Al Sharpton’s not my hero; neither is Robert Byrd. And I didn’t say they were. Follwing in the grand tradition of talk radio, you are putting words in my mouth. That is, you are lieing.
    I’ve said that I won’t vote for Republicans because that party deliberately tailored its policies and positions to push the buttons of racism, intolerance and jingoism. That began with Nixon’s Southern Strategy and continues today with Bush.
    In typical fashion, the high school debaters here have tossed two irrelevant pieces of information on the table in a deliberate effort to refocus the discussion. This is the cowardly approach of people who cannot address my comments, so instead they wallow in lies and innuendo. I state my opinion about the Republican Party and they respond with pettiness, ad hominem attacks and lies. Perhaps they’re on the Republican payroll.

  42. Ptolemy Avatar
    Ptolemy

    Wait, this is the same billg who went and called me a Mein Kampf studier because I challenged his ad hominem attack on the republican party’s racism? High school debator? Cowardly? You never answered my challenge to simply acknowledge sin on your side. For that I was call a Nazi. You must be a very scary person to know and work with. Take a break for today will you?

  43. billg Avatar
    billg

    My attack on the Republican Party is grounded in fact and history. The Party, beginning in the 1970’s, deliberately set out to court the votes of whites who had deserted the Democratic Party because they couldn’t accept the civil rights achievements of the 1960’s. To do this, Nixon and the Republicans adopted a political vocabularly intended to push the buttons of all those racists and apologists for racists. (See Nixon’s rants about crime.) At the same time, todays so-called Christian fundamentalists took root via the private segragation academies established by white racists who didn’t want their white children attending public schools with black children. (See almost any Republican rant about schools.)
    The Republican Party has not repudiated this sordid history.

  44. Ptolemy Avatar
    Ptolemy

    Fair enough but you don’t get the solution by working on only half the problem. Hate is hate and if a Dem does it then it is as bad as a Repub. Deal with the whole problem or get over it. Ignoring one side doesn’t make the murder rate in our cities decline does it? It isn’t klansmen killing all those youths in the inner city. Why does the color of the murderer matter so? Why can’t it all be declared unacceptable and fought against? Who does a person of any race feel more afraid of when walking downtown? The Klansman? Please. Have you even seen one in person? I haven’t but I have been threatened with death and called a white fucker. What does your party do to address that issue which is much more common and not just for whites? I live in a mixed neighborhood and find peace and satisfaction living here. Criminals are the enemy and Bush had no problem giving the death sentence to the trailer trash that killed Mr Byrd.

  45. billg Avatar
    billg

    1. Crime is crime; color doesn’t matter. But, the issue I addressed is deliberate pandering to racism by Republicans. Linking fear of crime with fear of blacks is blatant exploitation of bias. It’s been a Republican tactic for almost 40 years. Why else would Republicans candidates tour the suburbs ranting about “crime in the cities”?
    2. Yes, I’ve seen Klanamen.