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American Foreign Legion

15 comments on American Foreign Legion

American Foreign Legion
: Bertrand Pecquerie of EditorsWeblog says that America’s experience in the war in Iraq is not similar to Vietnam; it is similar to the French experience in Algeria.

It’s just a little comment, but when I read in the Washington Post “U.S. May Be Winning Battles in Iraq But Losing the War, Some Officers Say”, I immediately remind the French-Algerian situation at the beginning of the sixties. It was said that the military actions were going well in Alger and the country, but at the end France lost everything: Algeria, international prestige, honor and self-esteem…

And with our private forces, it is as if we have an American Foreign Legion there.

15 responses to “American Foreign Legion”

  1. lk Avatar
    lk

    Algeria is right on point. Lesson – you don’t even have to kill the enemy (French). Killing Algerians, and causing terror, will drive away the enemy. Another thing – when the french left, there was a bloodbath of killing collaborators (we can’t let that happen in Iraq, but the bush admin never studies history, so maybe they’ll assume if we leave it’ll be peaceful – fat chance).

  2. Lore Avatar
    Lore

    “The Bush administration never studies history.”
    Huh? I don’t think so. The administration seems to be very well versed on history.
    “…maybe they’ll assume if we leave it’ll be peaceful..”
    We’ve not heard of anyone in the admin ever remotely entertaining a passing thought of leaving.
    Aren’t you talking about a prospective other-than-Bush administration? As in “Give Peace a chance.”. We agree that has never worked where it’s been tried. Against human nature.

  3. Walter Wallis Avatar
    Walter Wallis

    We must make the United States a valuable friend and a horrible enemy, their choice. Everything else has been tried without success.

  4. Steel Magnolia Avatar
    Steel Magnolia

    The comparison with Algeria seems far more apt than that of VietNam. The true measure of an anology, however, is not simply its accuracy, but its usefulness.
    Unfortunately, the popular function of analogizing, at present, seems directed at establishing the inevitability of defeat rather than at developing a new model, informed by experience, for success.

  5. Bertrand Pecquerie, WEF Director Avatar
    Bertrand Pecquerie, WEF Director

    Dear Jeff,
    I can’t agree with your comparison of the French “L

  6. Gerry Avatar
    Gerry

    Jeff-
    I wonder if the Editors’ Weblog read Wretchard’s Belmont Club post from mid-April.
    Gerry

  7. Floyd McWilliams Avatar
    Floyd McWilliams

    The “merceneries” in Iraq do not fight; they provide services for the military’s logistics, and security for the people who are helping to rebuild the country. CACI is an obscure company that wields no influence in American politics. It is about as likely to stage a coup as the fans of Antique Roadshow.
    But other than that, very perceptive.
    Next, Jeff will quote approvingly from people who claim that UFOs exist and that Sasquatch roams the Pacific Northwest.

  8. JorgXMcKie Avatar
    JorgXMcKie

    Well there’s also the little fact that France had Algeria as a colony and/or a part of France for quite a while and treated Algerians about like they treated the rest of their colonies — brutally.
    I’m reasonably sure Bush and company have no real intention of annexing Iraq.

  9. Charlie (Colorado) Avatar
    Charlie (Colorado)

    Jeff, it’s been a while since I lived in NYC, but when I was there we called people who drive those big multi-wheeled cargo carriers “truck drivers”, no not “the Foreign Legion” and not “mercenaries”.

  10. Mork Avatar
    Mork

    Unfortunately, the popular function of analogizing, at present, seems directed at establishing the inevitability of defeat rather than at developing a new model, informed by experience, for success.
    Unfortunately, there’s a good reason for that: there are countless examples of western nations attempting to impose change on non-western nations by force and failing, and only one example – Japan (whose conditions we can’t possibly replicate)- of one succeeding.
    But ideologues typically don’t believe that the forces that produced previous historical outcomes apply to them.

  11. Steel Magnolia Avatar
    Steel Magnolia

    Mark —
    Nor are we replicating the previous conditions inherent in the failures either, except in the most superficial way, as in “western nations attempting to impose change on non-western nations by force.” You confirm my original point.
    Indeed, there is another reason for avoiding the kind of simplistic analogies which currently proliferate. Folks end up arguing about their metaphors, instead of actual circumstances.

  12. Mork Avatar
    Mork

    SM – that sounds to me like rationalization for refusing to learn the lessons of history.
    In this particular case, there are plenty of historical analogies that are sufficiently powerful and on point that they were capable of pointing to exactly the ways that we would fail in Iraq.
    It seems to me that the only reason to deny this is to avoid having to reach the conclusion that our leaders should have known that this would happen.
    After all, the “realists” who David Brooks derides in the column linked below by Jeff (another in full denial of the obvious mode) predicted exactly what is happening now. How did they know? Because (to quote General Zinni from a couple of weeks back) they’d seen this movie before.

  13. Giles Avatar
    Giles

    let look at the connection
    First its like Vietnam – where the French lost
    Next its like Algeria – where the French lost
    Let me guess, the next analogies will be Germany, Mexico, Waterloo, Agincourt, Crecy…..
    This is all just French shcednfreude wishing.
    The closest analogy is

  14. Steel Magnolia Avatar
    Steel Magnolia

    Mark —
    The litany of predicted failures (like 100’s of thousands killed, more 100’s of thousands of refugees, internally displaced persons, infrastructure blasted out of existence, and consequent outbreaks of contagious diseases, full scale civil war, etc. etc. etc) is considerably longer than the list of actual failures to date. I don’t contend there haven’t been any failures; I do think it’s a little early to write the entire venture off yet, as you seem apparently intent on doing.
    If you’ve got so many analogies, why not share a few with the rest of us? Anyone can “predict” failure, but that’s not the same thing as drawing a useful analogy.
    I also think you mischaracterize David Brook’s comments on realists as derisive. To the contrary, I think he takes them very seriously. In addition, you may not be aware of the fact that there are several schools of thought vying for dominance in the academic world of international studies — e.g. realism, liberalism, contructivism — which are part of the subtext of his remarks.

  15. narciso Avatar
    narciso

    It took 17 years for the French to pacify Algeria in the early part of 19th Century, and they held
    on to it, for 115 years. It took 2 years and 98,000 lives for the Brits to take Baghdad, in what was considered a minor subset of the
    Mediterranean. Halfway through the campaign
    a huge part of the Anglo Indian Army was defeated
    at Kut, and was summarily interned by the Turks(re; Darwish’s Unholy Babylon) the subsequent Shia uprising, which occurred nearly 3 years later, mostly because of the Brit’s Sunni first strategy; were less significant casualties, but
    no less brutal. The Phillipine campaign at the turn of the century, and if you wish, the Nicaraguan campaign in the 20s & 30s are more
    apt comparison.
    One another unrelated point, I think the FCC owes
    Howard and i’ll even throw in Bubba the Love Sponge an apology. Practically nothing they have
    said or done in the past, is as obscene as what
    CBS and other networks have broadcast in the last
    two weeks. It has been obscene, injurious to the
    war effort, and without redeeming social value.
    Ir has been exploited by the left, the Islamo-fascists like Sadr and his Sunni comrades and
    the men behind the jails of Egyptian hellholes
    like the Citadel,the Palace of the End, where
    Saddamm got his start, and the unknown archipelago
    of the Saudi General Intelligence and other security services