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Terrorism at the polls

152 comments on Terrorism at the polls

Terrorism at the polls
: More’s the pity that terrorism had an impact on the election in Spain:

Spain’s ruling conservatives were defeated on Sunday in general elections, as a heavy turnout of voters punished the government in the highly emotional aftermath of the Madrid train bombings in which 200 people were killed.

Interior Minister Angel Acebes said the opposition Socialist Workers’ Party (PSOE) had obtained 43.01 percent of the vote and won 164 seats in the 350-member Chamber of Deputies.

The ruling conservative Popular Party (PP), which was predicted to prevail a week ago, won only 148 seats, with 37.47 percent of the vote….

Acebes said more than 77 percent of the electorate turned out to vote, a high response reflecting the emotions caused by the deadly train massacre….

The PP of outgoing Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar apparently took a pasting because of its support for the United States in the invasion and occupation of Iraq.

Only a week ago, four public opinion polls predicted the Popular Party would win with a reduced majority.

But the bombings and a claim attributed to Al-Qaeda that they were revenge for Spain’s support of American policy in Iraq touched off a wave of anger against the government.

I’m certainly not well-versed on Spanish politics but I wonder whether the ruling Conservatives’ insistence on blaming ETA even in the face of evidence pointing to Islamofascists also contributed to their defeat. In any case, it’s a damned shame that terrorists can have an impact on the election and can help bring in the side they apparently wanted.

Let’s just hope that anger in Spain will focus on the real target: Not the U.S., not the Conservative administration that joined with the U.S. in Iraq, but, of course, the evil bastards who murdered 200 innocents.

: UPDATE: Now is the time to say it again: The terrorists have won if….

The terrorists have won if they changed the course of a democracy… and made a nation lose its resolve to defeat terrorism. The terrorists have won if that happens.

It didn’t happen here. It won’t happen in Spain.

Terrorism will not prevail.

152 responses to “Terrorism at the polls”

  1. Jeff B. Avatar
    Jeff B.

    Let us hope. But I am not optimistic. People want to believe they can flee from danger to safety without combat. al-Qaeda will pretend to offer them that option as long as they have to.
    A bleak day for the war.

  2. scott orrell Avatar
    scott orrell

    I think we should all prepare for a new AQ strategy–“Bomb the Vote”
    I can’t believe I’m actually afraid of a terrorist org. influencing our election through violent means. But, surely, this lesson will not be lost on our enemies. Considering Spain just elected a party that intends to pull out of Afghanistan and Iraq. This is a failure on all fronts.

  3. Trump Avatar
    Trump

    The Socialist govt-elect has already said that they will be pulling out of Iraq unless the UN takes over administration duties shortly.
    *SIGH*- Spain votes to be lapdogs of the terrorists.
    Any doubt that Al Qaeda will be trying the same thing here to influence OUR election?
    And if they do, will America react like the Spanish, cowering and appeasing and hoping the problem will go away if the terrorists get what they want?
    Will we vote for the man who has been taking the fight to these…scum? Or will we vote for Kerry? God help us if we make the wrong choice…

  4. Spanish are Cowards Avatar
    Spanish are Cowards

    “Let’s just hope that anger in Spain will focus on the real target: Not the U.S., not the Conservative administration that joined with the U.S. in Iraq, but, of course, the evil bastards who murdered 200 innocents.”
    I think you are hoping for too much. After all, this is a nation that remained neutral during WWII when the Nazi forces of darkness were rolling over europe. The Spanish PEOPLE have decided to remain neutral in another struggle of good vs. evil.
    Luckily, the hottest corners of hell are reserved for people like that.

  5. Mike Avatar
    Mike

    I’m not one prone to worry, but this is by far the most depressing outcome I’ve ever seen from a democratic election.
    Gee, thanks Spain, for vindicating terrorism as a means for the violent few to impose their will on everyone else.

  6. Madre Avatar
    Madre

    Spaniards punished the government for endangering their lives.
    A world full of bullies is dangerous for everybody.
    A changing of the guard is a sane reaction. We should consider a fresh slate, too, one that can make partnerships in the world, not bitter, death-bent enemies.
    Escalation is not the answer.

  7. Robert McClelland Avatar
    Robert McClelland

    >I’m certainly not well-versed on Spanish politics
    That’s right, none of you warblogging rubes are, but that hasn’t stopped even one of you from distilling the intricacies of Spanish politics down to the absurd, one dimensional notion that terrorism was the only issue of their election today.
    But do carry on with your collective melt-down. It’s been outrageously entertaining to watch.

  8. Abu Libertas Avatar
    Abu Libertas

    Cobardes, these Spaniards, every one of them that voted for the appeasers.
    This time, the terrorists did win.

  9. Jeffrey Edelman Avatar
    Jeffrey Edelman

    I heartily second all of the above sentiments. But it is interesting that, if you follow the Spanish voter’s logic to it’s conclusion, then countries and their designated agents SHOULD simply resort to mass casualty terrorism to obtain their desired ends:
    Israel doesn’t like the way that the French are behaving vis a vis the Palestinians? A suitcase nuke in Paris and a grainy video from the “Zionist People’s Front” will help sway the French electorate.
    We in the U.S don’t appreciate Hugo Chavez thuggery? A succession of 100 firebombs in Caracas’ elementary schools and a statement from the “Massachusetts Militia” should work just fine in gaining the appreciation of the Venezuelan people to “our” position.
    I realize those are horrible and inhuman examples of terrorism but, hey, it works fine for Al Quaeda, and actually liberating the people of Iraq seems to have counted for zilch.

  10. Charlie (Colorado) Avatar
    Charlie (Colorado)

    Tu, Madre? Cabrónes, sin cojones.

  11. George Hamid Avatar
    George Hamid

    With the exception of Great Britain, Western Europe has not changed one iota since the 1930s. They were and are a bunch of cowardly, pontificating gasbags with an arrogance of biblical proportion and a sense of unlimited entitlement. With the terrorist victory in Spain it is only a matter of time before all of these spineless “nations” capitulate to the rule of the barbarian.
    Frankly, that’s exactly what they deserve.

  12. Paolo Avatar
    Paolo

    I was hoping that the Europeans would open their eyes before terrorism did it for them. I am saddened to see that not even the blast in Madrid could do this as the are determined to march towards self destruction in their quest for a post modernist utopia. I am afraid it will take the detruction of the Louvre or the European Parliament before they wake up and I think by then it will be too late.
    From Reuters
    “PAID THE PRICE”
    “The government has paid the price for its involvement in the war in Iraq, for Aznar’s relationship with (U.S. President George) W. Bush and (British Prime Minister) Tony Blair. The vote has been a reaction to this,” said Carlos Berzosa, rector of Madrid’s Complutense University.
    http://dailynews.att.net/cgi-bin/news?e=pri&dt=040314&cat=news&st=newsspainexplosionsdc

  13. Marc Avatar
    Marc

    Spain to Islamic Fascists: Whatever you want, you got it.
    Jeff,
    If Spanish voters were focused on the real target, the Socialists would not have won. I fear Spain has just demonstrated to Islamic Fascists that the mass slaughter of innocents works. If only the poor Spaniards knew that Al-Qaeda couldn

  14. onecent Avatar
    onecent

    Spaniards punished the government for endangering their lives..
    TERRORISTS took those lives not their government. And the terrorist will take them again when they are displeased or want an election outcome in their favor.
    ….one that can make partnerships in the world, not bitter, death-bent enemies.……OBL to join the Chamber of Commerce kinda thing?

  15. Robert McClelland Avatar
    Robert McClelland

    >Any doubt that Al Qaeda will be trying the same thing here to influence OUR election?
    If Al Qaeda does not try to attack America from now until election day, will you then concede that Al Qaeda wants Bush to win? I mean, if an attack by them means they want Kerry to win, then no attack by them must mean they want Bush to win.

  16. Richard Aubrey Avatar
    Richard Aubrey

    The success of this experiment guarantees an attack in the early fall in the US.
    Whether it will elect Kerry is one question, how bad it will be is another.

  17. Paolo Avatar
    Paolo

    I am on the verge of tears here. I love Spain and the Spanish people, but their willingness to bend over and take it from the terrorists is mind-numbing. Hold a few marches against the terrorists, but vote out the only pols willing to stand up to them. Pitiful and sad. I guess we should now vote for Kerry and roll over just as the Spanish have. Cobardes sin verguenza!

  18. DAVID Avatar
    DAVID

    Al Qaeda murdered some 200 people and, it seems, drove a partner out of the Coalition. That was exactly the result intended. Terrorism worked. As in any war, what worked in one place will be tried again soon enough in another. The Spanish electorate broke instead of rallying in the face of terror, and people in London, Rome, Warsaw, Sofia and Bucharest ought to start wondering when the terrorists will be getting around to them.
    Far too much of the European electorate seems to be in the same mood that reigned in Western Europe between Sept. 1, 1939 and May 10, 1940. “Why die for Danzig?” has become “Why die for Dubya?”
    More than Danzig was at stake, and more than Dubya is at stake.
    A bad day.

  19. Stacy Avatar
    Stacy

    “Frankly, that’s exactly what they deserve.”
    Yes they do, but unfortunately US and enemy soldiers and civilians will pay the price for this emboldening of the other side. You can be sure the domestic America-haters are breaking out the bubbly too. If the conventional wisdom becomes that this is a reverse for the Bush approach to terrorism, we’re one step closer to being stabbed in the back by leftists at home. Anyone who was thinking of staying home or voting for someone other than W because you’re upset about deficits or the marriage amendment, please rethink immediately…

  20. George Hamid Avatar
    George Hamid

    Oh, by the way Madre, be sure to give Rand-McNally a heads-up when they should change the name Spain to Andalusia on their maps.

  21. Gabriel Gonzalez Avatar
    Gabriel Gonzalez

    “if an attack by them means they want Kerry to win, then no attack by them must mean they want Bush to win”
    Brilliant. They should remain neutral by carrying out a moderate attack, say half a 9/11? It is one thing to say that the Spanish of their own accord voted out Aznar’s policy. That policy existed a week ago and the Spanish could have showed the intention to disapprove of it a week ago. In the event, that is not what happened: they voted as they did because they were cowered by terrorist attacks that they think they can appease. To regard the attack as somehow politically neutral spills over into rank stupidity.

  22. Loud Mouths Avatar
    Loud Mouths

    The Al Qaeda have been targeting Spaniards for some time.
    The Spanish intelligence network in Iraq had their members assassinated months back.
    They had been tracking the Al Qaeda from Spain into Iraq.
    The Socialist Party has their work cut out for themselves. It will come down to “be carefull on what you ask for, you may just get it.”
    Spain will once again become a haven for the Al Qaeda.
    The E.U. will be thrown into a turmoil.

  23. Franky Avatar
    Franky

    I am worried for the precedent set by this election, and I think the transparency of AQ’s plan to influence the elections and their success does not bode well for elections around the world.
    But let’s drop the insults against the Spanish. The country was overwhelming against the war in Iraq. The government went ahead anyway. Critics of the war, a war they declared illegal and waged under false pretences, said that it would make Spain a target. This, alas, has proved true. Add on to that what may have been a government cover-up over who was responsible for the bombings, and you have a pretty solid reason for voting out the incumbents.
    Remember not all the world sees this as a clash of civilizations. Some people see this war as a conflict between AQ and US over the country’s foregin policy in the Middle East (unquestioning support for Israel in its policies against the Palestinians, propping up corrupt regimes like Egypt etc.). Now you may or may not agree with that diaganosis, but how are you going to explain to someone who does, that they should join this conflict to support a set of policies about which they disagree?

  24. Robert McClelland Avatar
    Robert McClelland

    >To regard the attack as somehow politically neutral spills over into rank stupidity.
    And to say that today’s vote in Spain shows that the Spanish people have been cowed into appeasing terrorists ranks of the lobotomy you’ve obviously had.

  25. Raoul Ortega Avatar
    Raoul Ortega

    If Al Qaeda does not try to attack America from now until election day, will you then concede that Al Qaeda wants Bush to win?
    Implicit in that statement is the assumption that the Bush Administration is too incompetent to prevent any attack.

  26. Mustapha Avatar
    Mustapha

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA
    Democracy is sweet, eh, warmongers?
    Now on to the free and fair Iraqi elections!

  27. hen Avatar
    hen

    Franky the thing the your ilk just doesn’t seem to understand is this: Spain was a target whether they joined us in our war on terror or didn’t. Don’t you see: If you are not a fundamentalist country that believes in sharia law YOU are a target. For the war, against the war or neutral it does not matter.
    And despite the idiotic bleating of Bobby the mental midget, every analyst, not just us warblogging rubes, has stated that this victory for the Socialists is de facto surrender to the Islamists — of course they are still a target, just now the islamists might murder civilians somewhere else before they go back to Spain to finish what they started.

  28. Raoul Ortega Avatar
    Raoul Ortega

    But let’s drop the insults against the Spanish.
    Why should we? They’ve just made the world a more dangerous place for everyone. Of course, they think they’ve made it a safer place for Spaniards, appeasers always think that.

  29. hen Avatar
    hen

    hey mustapha the moron: you’ve have yet to answer my question – what size book do you use to beat your wife? or do you just use your kooran?

  30. Charlie (Colorado) Avatar
    Charlie (Colorado)

    Anyone who was thinking of staying home or voting for someone other than W because you’re upset about deficits or the marriage amendment,…

    or Howard Stern and the FCC,

    please rethink immediately…

    he noted, subtly.

  31. Robert McClelland Avatar
    Robert McClelland

    >And despite the idiotic bleating of Bobby the mental midget, every analyst, not just us warblogging rubes, has stated that this victory for the Socialists is de facto surrender to the Islamists
    Wow, those must be mighty fast analysts. I mean the election just occured today. Hey, wait a minute, you are just making stuff up, are you? Gawd, that you would even try to sell that spin shows us all the dangers of homeschooling your children.

  32. George Hamid Avatar
    George Hamid

    “we’re one step closer to being stabbed in the back by leftists at home.”
    Stacy, the (far)leftists have done nothing but stab us in the back for decades. For them to get one step closer they’d have to take ten steps back. However, I agree with everything else you said.

  33. Andrea Harris Avatar
    Andrea Harris

    Shut up, McClelland. Grownups are trying to talk here, and your bleating is making it hard for us to hear each other.

  34. billg Avatar
    billg

    Madre, et al, terrorism achieves its initial victory when otherwise sensible people decide that anyone or any group practicing poltics via violence must, by definition, have motives that bear consideration.
    Nothing could be further from the truth, which is this: Anyone who uses violence to pursue social or political goals that cannot be achieved democratically is a criminal, a murderer, a terrorist. By their actions they forfeit all rights to engage in political discourse.
    While the spread of enlightened democracy around the globe will inhibit, to a degree, the creation of new terrorism, it will not eliminate the murderers that already plague us. Only their elimination will suffice.
    However, so many, especially in Europe, blame terrorism on themselves: If only we took the time to understand these people, they would not try to kill us. That is folly. Terrorism is not your fault.
    For decades, some European governments have looked the other way while terrorists lived, plotted, and travelled within their borders, a policy intended to trade the deaths of others for the false security of their own citizens. That, too, is folly. Tacit cooperation with known terrorists means you share responsibility for their actions. If they kill, blood is on your hands, too.
    The only way to eliminate the terrorism we confront today is to eliminate the terrorists. They will not respond to political overtures, because they have already abandoned political discourse. If you believe that rational political discourse will end the threat of these terrorists, you will share in responsibilty for future Madrids and future 9-11’s.

  35. PJF Avatar
    PJF

    George Hamid:
    “With the exception of Great Britain, Western Europe has not changed one iota since the 1930s.”
    You are incorrect. In this context, the UK has changed back to being like Western Europe of the 1930s.
    Forget the UK as an ally. The people are as much against Blair in his stand with Bush as the Spaniards were against Aznar. Blair is finished. Europe is lost. The USA stands alone.
    Our only hope now is to get Robert McClelland to head up an international conference to bridge the divide between the Muslim and Christian communities:
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/leaders/story/0,3604,1168548,00.html
    Once we’ve taken the fight against terror out of America’s hands, we can all trip lightly up the flower hill of love toward la-la land, where everyone lives happily under rainbows and hugs the trees and bunnies…

  36. Robert McClelland Avatar
    Robert McClelland

    >You can be sure the domestic America-haters are breaking out the bubbly too.
    If you are referring to the Dems, you should take note that many of the Dem bloggers are pretty blase toward the outcome of the election. It really only looks like you right whingers are interested in this titanic struggle for freedom and democracy that has now been lost because those damned dirty apes did not vote the way you wanted them to so that Preznit Chimpy could claim he has friends who support him in Europe and now Osama will be dancing with those socialist wanks at the bullfights in Madrid. Should I build a bomb shelter now or is all hope of winning this colossal struggle between the forces of good and evil lost and therefore it would be pointless since we’re all doomed to wear burkas and recite from the koran?

  37. Robert McClelland Avatar
    Robert McClelland

    >Grownups are trying to talk here, and your bleating is making it hard for us to hear each other.
    I’m pretty sure you meant to say “your mocking of our stupidity is making it hard for us to wail and gnash.”

  38. Franky Avatar
    Franky

    Hen,
    There’s no evidence that AQ want to convert the world to Sharia law, and that’s just typical more unfounded claims from you and your ilk. They want to impose their twisted version of Islam on the Middle East, and other Muslim countries, but I don’t think any serious observer of this conflict thinks AQ plans on converting Iceland to a muslim state.
    And I’m sort of sick of a general tone of these discussions that emanate from people like you that any argument that deviates from the White House is a “surrender to terrorism” or “defence of the murderers”. You plan on calling everyone who votes for Kerry in November “surrenderers to terrorism” do you? I don’t know how I would have voted in that election had I been Spanish, but I’m aware there were reasonable grounds to vote out the incumbents and I know that if I had done so it would not have been a surrender to terrorists.

  39. hen Avatar
    hen

    uh no bobby the mental midget i wrote what i meant: by all means go to the BBC, Le Monde and the spanish press and they all say the same thing – the vote for Socialists was a direct response to the bombing.
    but listen to Andrea – she’s very bright, while you are very, very dull.

  40. KJ Avatar
    KJ

    Thanks Andrea…….You speak for most of us.

  41. Diana Avatar
    Diana

    You mean grownups who call themselves things like “Spain is a Coward”? Fact is, McClelland is the only one making sense here. Fact is, 200 dead Spaniards means that the Conservative government effed up, and that the Spanish people are, understandably, holding them accountable. If it had been Socialists or Druids in power, the same thing would have happened. It’s called democracy. Got a problem with that?
    Beyond that, the Spanish mostly opposed the war in Iraq. They were unwilling participants in a war that they were against, and this war put them directly in the crosshairs of AQ and allies.
    What is the problem with admitting that? I supported the war and turned against it when it became obvious that the proffered rationales were lies, but let’s put that aside for a moment. For the sake of argument, I’ll concede that the war was justified, but only for the sake of argument.
    If so, then what is the big deal with admitting that when you are in a war, you get blood, toil, tears and sweat. There WILL be casualties. What is your logic? That we are in a just war against an evil adversary, but that there will be no casualties? What is your logic?

  42. Robert McClelland Avatar
    Robert McClelland

    >For decades, some European governments have looked the other way while terrorists lived, plotted, and travelled within their borders, a policy intended to trade the deaths of others for the false security of their own citizens.
    Wrong. For decades only America has looked the other way. Europe on the other hand has been dealing with terrorism for decades.

  43. George Hamid Avatar
    George Hamid

    PJF,
    You may be right, but I haven’t given up on them quite yet.

  44. hen Avatar
    hen

    Franky says “AQ doesn’t want to convert everyone to Sharia law…they just want to impose their version of Islam to the ME”.
    Wow – someone has not been paying attention. AQ has said very, very clearly that they want ALL of what was once ruled by Islam to be converted back – that includes, most of Europe and absolutely Spain.
    But what makes you think, that once they impose their Islam on the ME they wd stop? And do you then accept the idea that Israel has to be destroyed for AQ to finally be satiated?
    If so you should have out with bobby the mental midget and go finger painting with him. Maybe his mommy can make you two kool aid and crackers if you are good boys.

  45. Franky Avatar
    Franky

    Hen,
    I’m not going to get in to another waste of my time by getting in to a name-calling match on a blog’s message board. You want to debate me, next time keep a civil tongue in your head and we can discuss whatever issue it is.

  46. hen Avatar
    hen

    oh really bobby – Europe has been dealing with ISLAMIST terrorists for decades? could have fooled me, i mean after all the EU refuses to even investigate if their $$ to the PLO funds terrorism – i guess if they don’t absolutely know then it’s cool.
    were they fighting terrorism when they released the murderers of Leon Klinghoffer, the 72 Israeli Olympic team, the US Marines in the disco, etc??
    word to the wise bobby – don’t eat the paint chips — paint chips are bad.

  47. hen Avatar
    hen

    OK Franky, i apologize – if you read my post to you again, sans the last para, please tell me where i am wrong.

  48. PJF Avatar
    PJF

    Robert McClelland:
    “And to say that today’s vote in Spain shows that the Spanish people have been cowed into appeasing terrorists ranks of the lobotomy you’ve obviously had.”
    There is no other explanation. The previous government was on course for a comfortable win according to every poll. A terrorist outrage occurs, the media associates it with the government’s alliance with the USA (which wasn’t an election losing issue before the bombings) and all of a sudden the people change the government.
    The reason for this outcome is clear, and was the openly discussed intent of Islamic extremists before it occured. You know this is the truth. The explanation for your refusal to accept reality isn’t that you are a moron, it is that you are a perverse little twat.

  49. George Hamid Avatar
    George Hamid

    “For decades only America has looked the other way. Europe on the other hand has been dealing with terrorism for decades.”
    I don’t see why all of you are getting on Mr. McClelland’s case, he’s absolutly right. We should have started the war 20 years ago.

  50. Diana Avatar
    Diana

    For decades, some European governments have looked the other way while terrorists lived, plotted, and travelled within their borders, a policy intended to trade the deaths of others for the false security of their own citizens.
    The anti-Israel and anti-Jewish terrorism on European soil was done ostensibly on behalf of the Palestinian Arabs, and had nothing to do with fundamentalist Islam. The European gov’ts had a hard time getting a handle on this but eventually they did. While all this was going on, the US kept up steady friendships with the Saudis (good friends of the Bush family, see Carlyle Group), and bankrolled fundamentalist mujahedeen in Afghanistan, which eventually became the very menace that we are trying to defeat now. Also during that time, we were buddies with Saddam.
    Get your facts straight. But first you’d have to get your head straight.

  51. Mork Avatar
    Mork

    What’s striking to me in this thread is that some people have become so caught up in partisanship that their primary motivation is no longer discovering the most effective response to terror, but developing the most effective way to paint their political opponenents weak on terror.
    It’s just sick.

  52. Franky Avatar
    Franky

    Hen,
    Not a problem, I just get frustrated sometimes on these message boards.
    I agree they have occassionaly referred to restoring the Caliphate (spelling?), but (maybe I’m giving them to much credit) but it seems even they must know that’s not possible. What are constant demands are: destruction of Israel, withdrawl of US from Middle East and the imposition of Sharia law in all Muslim countries (obviously as if it needs saying, but the first goal is unacceptable, the second is one we should possibly consider, and the third to me seems to be a decision for each country.
    My point is that the pattern of attacks has been for those who supported the US (Australia, Spain and others), and in fairness to Spanish critics of the government they were warned this would be a potential outcome.
    Now, if you believe again that the conflict is between US foreign policy in the Middle East and AQ, why should you willingly put yourself on the front line of such a battle, especially when the US is undertaking no actions to make its policies in the region fairer regarding the Palestinians.
    I think if the US pushed for an equitable agreement that gave the Palestinians their pre-1967 land and a fully functioning state, AQ’s support amongst common muslims would collapse, leaving us the much easier taks of hunting and killing the hardcore snakes at the center of AQ. If you look at the propaganda that AQ puts out, you can see that it is almost all videos of the horrendous conditions in the occupied territories. Now, how do you recuit when that fount of anger isn’t there?

  53. franklin Avatar
    franklin

    Bush is not America. America is not Bush.
    Sometimes we get bad presidents. We have the vote to do something about that.
    I see no reason to identify with Bush or defend him.
    His policies have brought this on us all.

  54. PJF Avatar
    PJF

    George Hamid,
    I’m one of them and I can assure you that I’m in the minority. This country is full of Robert McClellands and people fed bullshit by Robert McClellands – and forced, yet willing, to pay for it (the BBC).
    I thank you for your optimism, but you should be focussing your attentions on where there is still hope.

  55. Sandy P. Avatar
    Sandy P.

    –If Al Qaeda does not try to attack America from now until election day, will you then concede that Al Qaeda wants Bush to win? I mean, if an attack by them means they want Kerry to win, then no attack by them must mean they want Bush to win. —
    Got that backwards, Robert. You’re not paying attention.
    But since you don’t care who’s pres, which is what you recently wrote on Damian’s blog, why don’t you just update your own?

  56. mateo Avatar
    mateo

    My, my, such a bunch of instant spanish experts here who, after 30 minutes of reflection, can spell out all the implications of terror and today’s election. I wonder if the Spanish showed more generosity of feeling on Set. 12, 01 than we see here today.
    Quick quiz, kids: who was the premier of the Spanish Republic when the Civil War broke out in 1936? Don’t know the answer without googling? Then should you be shooting your ignorant mouth off about Spanish affairs?

  57. PJF Avatar
    PJF

    Hey franklin, by your perverse logic, Britain deserved what it got in WWII because it stood up to Hitler, and the USA deserved what it got because it had interests in the Pacific that conflicted with Japan’s. And if I protect my property against a thief, I bring it upon myself if I get hurt in the process.
    Why are you parroting imbecilic, cowardly appeasement? Because – well, the clue is in the question.

  58. Sandy P. Avatar
    Sandy P.

    –There’s no evidence that AQ want to convert the world to Sharia law, —
    Then what about the world will be at peace when the world is under Islam?
    Or am I not understanding something?
    —
    Via Bjorn Staerk’s blog:
    The research group regularly gathers information which appears on Islamist website on the Internet, but doesn’t have time to go through everything in detail. After the attack in Madrid yesterday, they did a search on “Spain” in the documents they have gathered, and made an interesting discovery. ..
    – What we found was a 42 page strategy document, where an anonymous author discusses what strategy to use to force the coalition lead by the US out of Iraq, says researcher Thomas Hegghammer. .. It concludes that one should go for a domino effect, where one first pressures one country to pull out, so the others may follow. The author points to Spain as that country in the coalition which it would be most convenient to attack.
    Of the 42 pages in the document, which is written in Arabic, and was probably made last autumn, there are six pages about Spain.
    “To make the Spanish government pull out of Iraq, the Muslim resistance forces must direct blows against the Spanish forces, and these must be joined by information about the situation in Iraq .. one must take maximum advantage of the approaching election in Spain in March next year .. we expect the Spanish government won’t withstand more than two, maximum three, such attacks, because of pressure from public opinion. If they nevertheless should remain in Iraq, their continued presence will become an important issue for the Socialist Party.”
    The information in the document indicates that the person who wrote it is familiar with Spain and Spanish politics. It contains a discussion on Spanish election results all the way back to 1982.

  59. George Hamid Avatar
    George Hamid

    PJF,
    Actually that post was sort of a joke. I’m not very good at conveying my inflections through typing, but, I’ll keep trying.

  60. George Hamid Avatar
    George Hamid

    By the way, PJF, it seems you’re in the majority here. Also, just call me George. I get nervous when I’m called by my full name. It usually means I’m in trouble.

  61. billg Avatar
    billg

    Mclelland, Diana, et al:
    By pointing out the errors and hypocrisies of some European nations, I don’t intend to give the U.S. a carte blanche for all its actions. Likewise, you cannot defends support, toleration, or acquiescence to terrorism by those same European states by pointing a finger at the U.S.
    Don’t you get it? Anyone who engages in terror is a criminal. Criminals must be caught and brought to justice. No amount of handwringing and fretting about why they became criminals will absolve them of guilt. If you think you know how to prevent future crime, that’s OK, but please don’t expect the rest of us to let you get in the way of eliminating today’s murderers.
    Terrorists won’t stop killing us just because we try to understand them.

  62. onecent Avatar
    onecent

    His policies have brought this on us all.

  63. PJF Avatar
    PJF

    Well mateo, I can name someone who did know who the president of the Spanish Republic was in 1936. That someone was George Orwell, who took a bullet in the neck fighting the fascists.
    Because of his experiences in the Spanish Civil war, he learned that the leftists were just as bad as the rightists. He subsequently had utter contempt for the deluded liberal/leftists sat comfortably under the wing of democratic freedom whilst doing their best to undermine it.
    For exactly the same reason he’d have utter contempt for the contemporary pseudo-intellectual wimps dribbling out appeasement all over again.

  64. Gabriel Gonzalez Avatar
    Gabriel Gonzalez

    “And to say that today’s vote in Spain shows that the Spanish people have been cowed into appeasing terrorists ranks of the lobotomy you’ve obviously had.”
    Terrorists: “We claim responsibility for what happened in Madrid exactly two and a half years after the attacks in New York and Washington. This is an answer to your cooperation with the Bush criminals and their allies. This is an answer to crimes which you committed in the world, notably in Iraq and Afghanistan, and there will be more, so help us God.”
    Spanish electorate: Socialist Party.
    Questions?

  65. Andrea Harris Avatar
    Andrea Harris

    Spain? Where’s that? Is that where they have the bullfights?
    And I have a new Sacred Leader: Diana. She has Revealed to me (by Sacred Revelations! it’s in the Book) that war has casualties. Oh thank you, Blessed Diana! Now I can go through the day with my head lifted high, since I now know the Truth!

  66. PJF Avatar
    PJF

    George Hamid,
    Sorry for not getting your joke. More than happy to call you George, and sorry if my internet debating habit of referring to people with their own chosen ID made it seem like you were in trouble (gosh, no).
    Feel free to call me Peter, PJF, or Complete Arse as you see fit. ;-)

  67. Sam Avatar
    Sam

    I look forward to teh day that Al Ansalus is returned to civilized jihadis

  68. mateo Avatar
    mateo

    PJF:
    PPrime Minister, not President.
    Having read all of Orwell’s books, including his novels, collected letters, and essays, I will hardly let you be my tutor on the meaning of his work. You’re right: he hated appeasers. He also always called himself a socialist even when he found many socialists insufferable. But he would also have made short shrift of an illiterate, third-rate ignoramus like Dubya. If you have read one page of The Road to Wigan Pier, you would know that he hated selfish reactionaries as much as he hate appeasers. But you hav not read one page of Wigan Pier, have you? Pity for you.

  69. George Hamid Avatar
    George Hamid

    Mateo,
    Throughout history Europeans have meddled in the affairs of every continent on the planet so don’t act so offended when Americans merely comment on Spain’s current situation. Contrary to the European view of us, many Americans are well informed and thoughtful. We realize that about 40% of the Spanish voters chose the PP and that Spaniards have every right to vote whatever way they please and for whatever reason they think is important. But we Americans have a vested interested the way other nations react to international terrorism.
    And don’t think for one moment that we will ignore capitulation of any kind.

  70. George Hamid Avatar
    George Hamid

    Peter,
    I would never call you a complete arse. Here in New Jersey we say complete ass.

  71. George Hamid Avatar
    George Hamid

    Peter,
    I forgot to end my last post properly.
    ;-)

  72. Tonto Avatar
    Tonto

    mateo –
    How does one perceive the point of a pin on one’s skin?

  73. Sandy P. Avatar
    Sandy P.

    –We realize that about 40% of the Spanish voters chose the PP and that Spaniards have every right to vote whatever way they please and for whatever reason they think is important.–
    As we will on November 2.

  74. mateo Avatar
    mateo

    Good stuff, George Hamid: I agree that intelligence and sharp information are absolutely critical for us to succeed against the Islamist terrorists.
    Btw, why did you assume I am European?

  75. George Hamid Avatar
    George Hamid

    Mateo,
    I guess because I read more into your post than I should have. Where do you hail from? And thanks for the compliment.

  76. Doctor Slack Avatar
    Doctor Slack

    It’s been grimly amusing to watch the reaction to the Spanish election. People who were brimming with solidarity a day ago are suddenly denouncing the Spaniards as cowards and bewailing the probable fate of civilization. But they don’t realize the cowardice and frivolity they’re revealing is their own.
    This is a case of an electorate holding its government to account, people. When Aznar took his country into the Iraq War to make the world safe from terrorism, most Spaniards believed he would wind up strengthening al-Qaida by giving it another political talking point (“crusaders in the heart of the Middle East!”) while spending crucial resources on a largely irrelevant enemy. The Madrid bombings revealed in many estimations that the people were right, and Aznar was wrong. And he actually got punished for his incompetence. (It didn’t help Aznar that he tried to hastily blame the bombing on ETA, in a painfully obvious attempt to manipulate terror to partisan advantage.)
    Any momentary “comfort” that gives to al-Qaeda is likely to be significantly offset by a government committed to actually fighting terrorism rather than singing up for half-baked military adventures that have nothing to do with that project.
    The war bloc, of course, seems more interested in Tough Guy Theatre; leaders who make a good show of strength — whether or not they’re concretely addressing the problems at hand. Ariel Sharon, Vladimir Putin, and George Bush all owe their political strength to the adroit manipulation of terrorist attacks to their own benefit, and none of them show much interest in taking many of the serious steps needed to actually address the problems their countries have. If anything, the likely goal of the Madrid bombers was to add Aznar’s government to the list of terror-indebted administrations; what they didn’t count on was that the Spanish electorate would see through this.

  77. George Hamid Avatar
    George Hamid

    Right you are Sandy, on Nov. 2nd we all get to vote. Except for those of us who may get vaporized on Nov. 1st.

  78. George Hamid Avatar
    George Hamid

    Doctor Slack,
    Let me get this straight, al-Qaeda’s motive for the Madrid bombing was to keep leaders like Sharon, Putin, and Bush in power? How devilish!

  79. Tonto Avatar
    Tonto

    Slack, you do inhabit another dimension.

  80. Doctor Slack Avatar
    Doctor Slack

    Let me get this straight, al-Qaeda’s motive for the Madrid bombing was to keep leaders like Sharon, Putin, and Bush in power?
    George, sarcasm works better if you show some sign of actually understanding the other person’s point and reproducing it honestly. Try again.
    And hey there, Tonto! Chalk another one up for the war bloc’s powers of substantive reasoning..

  81. Peter UK Avatar
    Peter UK

    Whilst the election results in Spain were undoubtedly influence by the atrocity,that is what happens in democracies.Events shape politics, what would be disasterous would be a withdrawal of Spanish troops from Iraq which means al Qaeda can shape policy.
    Whether you support the war or not that is surrender and just the beginning of continuing climbdowns and humiliations.Spain will end up playing a macabre game of Simon Says with a bunch of fanatics.

  82. PJF Avatar
    PJF

    Doctor Slack, your notion fails because all the polls indicated that shortly before the bombings the Spanish electorate was not sufficiently concerned about Spain’s alliance with the USA to change their government. The seeds of appeasement were there in the resentment of the alliance, but it wasn’t a deciding issue.
    What made it a deciding issue was the bombings. The turnout was pathetically low given the affront to democracy that had just occurred, another indication that the voters were stunned into submission.
    This wasn’t a considered appeasement such as that in the 1930s, this was appeasement by those who had just had their faces smashed with spanner. A rash capitulation that will probably be regretted quite soon.

  83. Diana Avatar
    Diana

    Andrea,
    It’s a dirty rotten job but someone had to do it.

  84. Mork Avatar
    Mork

    PJF – isn’t it just as likely that those voters changed their votes out of anger at the government’s attempts to manipulate the event for political advantage?
    In which case, as Doctor Slack suggests, isn’t that something we should all support?
    After all, nothing will weaken the fight against terror more effectively than politicians trying to use terror for partisan advantage.

  85. onecent Avatar
    onecent

    The anti-Israel and anti-Jewish terrorism on European soil was done ostensibly on behalf of the Palestinian Arabs, and had nothing to do with fundamentalist Islam. The European gov’ts had a hard time getting a handle on this but eventually they did..
    Thanks, Diana, for straightening us all out. Some of us were slow to realize the lack of involvement by fundamentalist Islam in vilifying/terrorizing Jews/Israel in Europe over the decades. El Jazeera, as viewed today, must be an abberation then. Or maybe it’s their Onion.
    But, please, clear up this troubling detail: how the Palestinian terrorists with no net worth of their own have been funded over the decades? (Bonus points for the top of the food chain funders.)

  86. Tonto Avatar
    Tonto

    Slack –
    Why in the world should I waste keystrokes trying to dissuade you from your Rodney King theory of international relations? It’s not so much your reasoning that is so aggravating, it’s your implicit values and assumptions. Like I said, another dimension. Remind me never to share a foxhole.

  87. George Hamid Avatar
    George Hamid

    Doctor Slack,
    OK, here goes.
    I agree with you that the Spanish people have every right to vote for anyone they want for whatever reason they please (see one of my previous posts).
    It is immaterial whether Spain’s decision to assist in the Iraq war gave al-Qeada any political talking points because they need none. They are religious fanatics and operate completely on faith. Of course, their desire to return Andalusia (Spain) to the Muslim fold seems to work for them.
    Your belief that the new Spanish Government will prosecute the war against terrorism requires me to see into the future. I can’t, though my guess would be that it wouldn’t.
    Finally, whether a government is or is not performing well on domestic issues has little or no bearing on how that government addresses a foreign threat.
    At least I’m getting better at this posting stuff, though, you got my sarcasm.

  88. Trump Avatar
    Trump

    You know, even leaving out the bowing to the terrorist thing aside…..they voted for SOCIALISTS.
    Think about it…

  89. PJF Avatar
    PJF

    Mork, you’ve been corrected on that point several times, as you well know. The government didn’t cynically manipulate the event for political advantage, the opposition did. The government announced the possible Islamist connection within hours of the blasts, despite the bombings fitting the pattern of previous ETA attempts. Even a BBC reporter called the opposition protests the most baseless he’d seen.
    Of course, it is quite possible sufficient numbers were convinced by the socialist’s lies, in which case the result is as much an indication of the success of the inadvertent alliance of leftism and terrorism as it is of appeasement.

  90. Andrea Harris Avatar
    Andrea Harris

    Mork’s a little slow. He has to read the same thing on several blogs before he gets it.

  91. Brad Avatar
    Brad

    heh
    Two days ago it was solidarity and love with the Spanish, and now that they didn’t vote the way the Americans wanted they’re cowards, capitulators, Europeans
    The self-absorption and arrogance of the war party is pretty clear isn’t it?

  92. George Hamid Avatar
    George Hamid

    “After all, nothing will weaken the fight against terror more effectively than politicians trying to use terror for partisan advantage”
    Mork,
    Good luck stopping that. If you are implying, however, that only those who support the Iraq war are being partisan and those who are against it are taking the high road, then you are showing blind bias.

  93. Diana Avatar
    Diana

    Thanks, Diana, for straightening us all out.
    My pleasure. Anytime.
    Some of us were slow to realize the lack of involvement by fundamentalist Islam in vilifying/terrorizing Jews/Israel in Europe over the decades.
    What Dr. Slack said about sarcasm. Most anti-Israel and anti-Jewish terror, in fact all, until the advent of the Islamists was strictly secular. The PLO was a secular outfit, as was Abu Nidal, and the various “red” terror outfits in Germany (Baader-Meinhof, etc.).
    But, please, clear up this troubling detail: how the Palestinian terrorists with no net worth of their own have been funded over the decades? (Bonus points for the top of the food chain funders.)
    As I understand it, the PLO and European-based terror groups got their money by crime: prostitution, drug-dealing, laundering money, and of course, under-the-table donations from Bush’s friends the Saudis, not to mention other wealthy Gulf Arabs.
    Money is fungible.

  94. Peter UK Avatar
    Peter UK

    “Ariel Sharon, Vladimir Putin, and George Bush all owe their political strength to the adroit manipulation of terrorist attacks to their own benefit”.
    ”
    If anything, the likely goal of the Madrid bombers was to add Aznar’s government to the list of terror-indebted administrations; what they didn’t count on was that the Spanish electorate would see through this”.
    If this was al Qaeda then they wouldn’t want to bolster Aznar’s Government and have obviously failed to this end.
    If this was to “add Aznar’s government to the list of terror-indebted administrations” then this implies that someone other than al Qaeda was responsible.An accusation of great enormity
    If you have evidence then forward it to the Spanish Police

  95. Andrea Harris Avatar
    Andrea Harris

    You know, Diana, it’s really pitiful to see that you’ve become another conspiracy-hack. “Bush’s friends the Saudis” blah blah blah. As opposed to those staunch enemies of the Saudis, all the other American presidents of the past three decades.
    As for Brad: *burp*
    And Dr. Slack: *yawn* boring.

  96. onecent Avatar
    onecent

    Any momentary “comfort” that gives to al-Qaeda is likely to be significantly offset by a government committed to actually fighting terrorism rather than singing up for half-baked military adventures that have nothing to do with that project……
    ………..the Taliban gone, Afghanistan no longer a haven, security at all airports in place, unaccountable and ridiculously lax student visas no longer issued, Saddam gone with his bank account to fund terrorists and safe haven for Abu Nidal types, Iraq in forward motion to break the mold of despotism as an emerged state, the terrorists tied up there and not focused here in confronting us, Libya changing its agenda, Assad rethinking his mischief, etc, etc……….
    Hey, slack, reviewing the acomplishments of Bush’s “half-baked” plan to date, it’s better than Billy Bob Clinton and his ilk ever accomplished. But, then a smirking genius like youself enjoys not sharing the Masters of the Universe Plan up Kerry’s sleeve that is so much better than Bush’s.

  97. Mork Avatar
    Mork

    Not at all, George. I’m well aware that it exists on all sides.
    It’s just that not only are many on this threat not opposed to it, it’s their raison d’etre.

  98. George Hamid Avatar
    George Hamid

    Brad,
    Why is it so hard for you to see that someone can feel compassion for a nation who just had 200 of it’s citizens blown to pieces and, at the same time, be disappointed at the results of their election?
    Do you always think in such a one dimensional manner?

  99. Doctor Slack Avatar
    Doctor Slack

    It is immaterial whether Spain’s decision to assist in the Iraq war gave al-Qeada any political talking points because they need none.
    Oh, come now. How do you think these organizations recruit and gather support — by showing up on someone’s doorstep and saying “we are al-Qaida, you will be assimilated, resistance is futile”?
    Just look at any pronouncement from the organization. They don’t consist merely of dogma and fruitcake historical references; they also go out of their way to hang the al-Qaida cause on specific things they believe will resonate in the Muslim world and give them more influence there.
    Your belief that the new Spanish Government will prosecute the war against terrorism requires me to see into the future.
    Not especially. The Spanish Socialists have historically been just as willing to vigorously prosecute anti-terror measures as the right. Aznar’s government in most ways was continuing Socialist policy when it came to power, and that included anti-terror policy. Moreover, most of Aznar’s “war on terror” efforts were apparently focussed on the Basques, not on al Qaeda (that includes Iraq, which probably benefited al Qaeda politically but really had nothing to do with it otherwise). So it won’t be that difficult for another government to improve on him in that regard.
    To PJF:
    The turnout was pathetically low given the affront to democracy that had just occurred, another indication that the voters were stunned into submission.
    Given that the turnout was seven points higher than the previous election, I don’t know what this is supposed to mean.
    And re: the stuff about “appeasement,” you know… it’s time for us all, on any side of a foreign policy debate, to stop reliving World War II. The comparisons are getting more and more stretched, and less and less helpful, as time goes on. Afghanistan and Iraq are not Germany and Japan or post-liberation France. Neither Bush nor Saddam were Hitler, and neither Bush nor Blair is Churchill. The year is not 1939, and anti-terrorism policy is not a black-and-white question of “resolve” versus “appeasement.” Enough already.
    Remind me never to share a foxhole.
    Ahhh, I do so love watching people prattle about “sharing foxholes” from behind the safety of a keyboard. Sorry, but I frankly doubt you’re equipped to deduce anything about the “implicit values and assumptions” in my reasoning.

  100. Paul H. Avatar
    Paul H.

    Dr Slack & Brad:
    While I suspect I would disagree with you across- the-board politically, your point about “manic-depressive” mood swings toward the Spanish, amongst pro-Iraq war types, is a good one. This shoe should be worn by them, if it fits.
    However, I think there are plenty of us who are aware of the deep anti-Iraq war sentiments of the majority of the Spanish population and are willing to watch and see what actually happens. The test will be what the new Spanish government actually does with its troops in Iraq (as compared to its pre-election promises).
    The actual taking of power in a democracy usually has a sobering effect on those who have assumed it, as they contemplate the consequences of radical, sudden changes in policy.
    I would suggest that any Spanish voters who may be here undertake to remind their new legislators of what has happened between Israel and the Palestinian terror groups, consequent to Barak’s precipitate withdrawal from the Lebanon buffer zone.
    And even if the troops are hastily withdrawn, the U.S still has several major air/naval bases in Spain proper, which will provide exultant Islamic terrorists their next justification for “direct action”.

  101. Richard Aubrey Avatar
    Richard Aubrey

    What if the terrorists make it clear they want the Spanish counter-terror operations (domestic and foreign) to cease, on pain of another bombing?

  102. More in sorrow than in anger Avatar
    More in sorrow than in anger

    Doctor SLACK, does that, Ahem, denote some penile disfunction?

  103. George Hamid Avatar
    George Hamid

    Mork,
    I don’t know anyone on this thread or their raisons d’etre, but I do know that there are plenty of idealogues on all sides. I only try to address specific comments that posters make. Do I have a personal point of view? Sure. Am I wrong sometimes? You bet. But I’ll listen to anybody until they prove to me that they are not worth listening to. I guess you feel some of these folks have proved that you.

  104. onecent Avatar
    onecent

    The PLO was a secular outfit, as was Abu Nidal, and the various “red” terror outfits in Germany (Baader-Meinhof, etc.)
    Thirty year old history, Diana. The last 20 years are much more relevant to the story of Palistinian funding. The last 20 years have had Fundamentalist funding in the big picture.
    By the way, financing the original Mujahadeen was the smart thing to do. Their country was hijacked by the Soviets. The word is generic and does not imply that they are they were in fact the same people that turned on us later.
    Saddam was in power 30 years, circumstances change, that he was sold weapons by the US at an earlier time was in our national interest. But, unlike Chirac, Saddam never received weapons from the US after his behavior, as with the Kurds and Kuwait, became vile. Your Bush bashing is stupid.

  105. Diana Avatar
    Diana

    I forgot to add another source of funding for Hamas: Israel itself. After the ’67 war, the Israelis actively cultivated a religious opposition to the nationalist, secular, militant PLO. That was Hamas. The details can be read here:
    http://www.upi.com/print.cfm?StoryID=18062002-051845-8272r
    Andrea,
    You are sounding rather tired lately. Take a rest.

  106. Doctor Slack Avatar
    Doctor Slack

    Peter U.K. — you’re not making any sense, dude. Sorry.
    PJF:
    The government announced the possible Islamist connection within hours of the blasts, despite the bombings fitting the pattern of previous ETA attempts.
    Ummm, not exactly.
    onecent — of the points you list in favour of Bush’s record:
    One is flat-out false, or at minimum badly distorted; the Taliban no longer control Kabul but are in fact resurgent in the countryside. “Gone” they ain’t, unfortunately
    Two are largely irrelevant. Saddam’s bankrolling of extremists was peanuts compared to the apparent contribution of the Saudis, both in the case of Palestine and especially al Qaeda; and Libya’s WMD deal was in the works before Bush came to power — attempts to ascribe it to the Iraq war are lame face-saving.
    Most of the rest are speculative in the extreme and probably false. “Afghanistan no longer a haven”? I’m not sure how we know this, given that the central “government” doesn’t actually control the country. “Iraq in forward motion to break the mold of despotism as an emerged state”? The fact that Sistani had virtual veto over the process of drafting an “interim” sort-of-constitution presents a few problems there. “The terrorists tied up there and not focused here in confronting us”? Almost certainly bull; if Zarqawi is to be believed, foreign terrorists are playing little to no role in the Iraqi insurgency. Afraid I’m not sure what “Assad rethinking his mischief” is a reference to.
    That leaves two points on your list as positives for Bush: visas and airports. Unfortunatley, both of those are “well, DUH” points — and they’re dwarfed by things like, ohhh, Bush spending billions on untested missile defense hardware and a few million on securing America’s ports.
    So, you know, forgive me if I’m not particularly in awe of Bush’s Record.

  107. Rick Avatar
    Rick

    Here’s some info for those who don’t understand what bin Laden wants:
    The Final Saladin:
    http://www.aijac.org.au/updates/Oct-01/111001.html
    (scroll down past several other articles)
    The Entire Earth Must Be Subjected to Islam:
    http://www.memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Page=subjects&Area=jihad&ID=SP38802
    bin Laden’s inspiration is Sayyid Qutb:
    http://tinyurl.com/2w5gj
    “They” are more than bin Laden and Al Qaeda:
    http://observer.guardian.co.uk/worldview/story/0,11581,845725,00.html

  108. PJF Avatar
    PJF

    Doctor Slack:
    “Given that the turnout was seven points higher than the previous election, I don’t know what this is supposed to mean.”
    It means what it said. A mere 63 percent turnout after such a tumultuous attack on freedom and democracy is utterly pathetic, and indicative of a stunned and cowed electorate.
    ‘Professional’ pundits were expecting, not unreasonably, an indisputably “massive” turnout:
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3506370.stm
    Note also from that leftie-media report:
    However, though the involvement of Islamists in the bombings is far from proven, the BBC’s Katya Adler in Madrid says that increasing indications of this involvement could cost the government dearly.
    “The key point is evidence,” said Professor Fusi.
    “If it is al-Qaeda, many people may establish a connection with Spain’s participation in the invasion of Iraq and vote against the government.”
    But another factor could see a significant swing to the Socialists, says Mr Powell.
    “If al-Qaeda is found to be involved, it could induce young left-wingers – who opposed the war in Iraq, but tend to abstain at the moment because of dissatisfaction with the left-wing parties – to go out and vote… and that could tilt the balance.”
    Seems we ‘warmongers’ aren’t alone in the understanding that the bombings ’tilted the balance’.
    And, hey, it doesn’t surprise me one bit that you would prefer not to be reminded of the consequences of appeasement in the 1930s. Of course you wouldn’t, because it is a clear and unmistakable example of history proving your pseudo-intellectual babbling to be stupidly and dangerously wrong. You’d much rather put your hands over your ears and listen to the sound of your own prattle. Maybe we should burn the history books now.
    I’ll rephrase the clich

  109. Doctor Slack Avatar
    Doctor Slack

    I would suggest that any Spanish voters who may be here undertake to remind their new legislators of what has happened between Israel and the Palestinian terror groups, consequent to Barak’s precipitate withdrawal from the Lebanon buffer zone.
    Weird. Is this an attempt to blame the intifada on Barak’s withdrawal from Lebanon? If so, may I suggest that there are rather more proximate causes involved there.
    the U.S still has several major air/naval bases in Spain proper, which will provide exultant Islamic terrorists their next justification for “direct action”.
    Ummm, yeah. You may have noticed that the “exultant Islamic terrorists” have a tendency to focus on events within the current Muslim world. There’s a reason for that. Damned few Muslims are likely to put their lives on the line to remove American bases from Spain.
    What if the terrorists make it clear they want the Spanish counter-terror operations (domestic and foreign) to cease, on pain of another bombing?
    What if it does? This is pretty clearly meant as a leading question, but I can’t tell what it’s supposed to be leading to.
    Doctor SLACK, does that, Ahem, denote some penile disfunction?
    Instead of a straightforward exchange of insults, I’d like to try someting new here. Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the Choose-Your-Own-Insult Blog Comment Format.
    I don’t know, “More in Sorrow than in Anger,” why don’t you ask your:
    a) Wife / Girlfriend;
    b) Mom;
    c) Sister;
    d) Daughter;
    e) Male Relative, Household Pet, or [Random Inanimate Object of your Choice], because You Never Can Tell With Those Evil Degenerate Socialist Liberals.
    Please choose the insult you feel best represents your current inclinations.
    Chalk another one up for the amazing connections this new citizens’ media gives us all!

  110. George Hamid Avatar
    George Hamid

    Dr. Slack,
    You wrote in your original post:
    “Any momentary “comfort” that gives to al-Qaeda is likely to be significantly offset by a government committed to actually fighting terrorism rather than singing up for half-baked military adventures that have nothing to do with that project.”
    My response was:

  111. Diana Avatar
    Diana

    A mere 63 percent turnout after such a tumultuous attack on freedom and democracy is utterly pathetic, and indicative of a stunned and cowed electorate
    What was the turnout of the interim elections in the US? Was it even 50 percent?? What does that prove??
    And you are WRONG. Turnout was 76%, which puts the US to shame.

  112. Diana Avatar
    Diana

    For turnout stats see:
    http://www.cbc.ca/cp/world/040314/w031464.html

  113. Doctor Slack Avatar
    Doctor Slack

    A mere 63 percent turnout after such a tumultuous attack on freedom and democracy is utterly pathetic, and indicative of a stunned and cowed electorate.
    I don’t know… when a quarter of a country’s populace turns out for public rallies, “stunned and cowed” aren’t exactly the words that come to mind for me.
    And, hey, it doesn’t surprise me one bit that you would prefer not to be reminded of the consequences of appeasement in the 1930s [childish invective snipped]
    Yep, there’s really no better way to defend a historical analogy than with a lengthy string of ad hominem attacks. Not that I really hold it against you; I suspect the insults are pretty much all you’ve got on offer on this score.
    But thanks for demonstrating another key problem with the war bloc’s adolescent contingent: the war on terror is really not about success or failure for them, it’s about being right at the expense of those lefties. Because what could possibly be more important than that?
    Seems we ‘warmongers’ aren’t alone in the understanding that the bombings ’tilted the balance’.
    Actually, the more I look at this, the more weight I’d give to the hypothesis that Spain’s voters punished his attempt to politicize the bombings rather than the fact of the bombings themselves.

  114. PJF Avatar
    PJF

    Yes, Diana, I was WRONG. This is because I was going by BBC TV reports. Unfortunately, the BBC stealth edit their website, so I can’t tell you if they ever gave the 63 percent figure online.

  115. onecent Avatar
    onecent

    Slack, nitpicking each item misses the big picture, much has changed including principle players and real estate in my summary. And it has been dramatic if your starting point was 9/12/01. Do you really think OBL is roaming freely, in a hotel room with room service at present. And AQ is having as easy a time of it?
    You’re a type, the swaggering bully scripted with broad cynical stock rantings, devoid of dialogue, trying always to convey a surperior edge. All efforts/opinions are failures if they aren’t yours.
    You’re a wanker.

  116. Doctor Slack Avatar
    Doctor Slack

    My last post for the day…
    Turnout was 76%, which puts the US to shame.
    Can’t believe I let that one pass. Thanks Diana.
    Therefore, your point must be that the Spanish should concern themselves only with terrorism that occurs within their borders.
    ??? No. My point is that the PSOE has a strong record on anti-terrorism and can historically be counted upon to back its words with action, and that there is simply no reason to believe their election is a setback for anti-terrorism in Europe or the world. Quite the reverse, in fact.(It’s a setback for Bush, obviously, but that’s simply not the same thing.)
    I can only conclude that our disagreement is that you think the Iraq war was wrong and I do not.
    In terms of timing, planning and execution, the Iraq war has been both unnecessary and pretty disastrous. But in this context my basic point is that it just wasn’t relevant to anti-terrorism.
    I just hope you don

  117. capt joe Avatar
    capt joe

    No matter who was right or wrong, AQ now believes they have a successful startegem to wage against enemy governments. I would expect this to be launched against Australia, the UK , the US and France (Al Zawari himself wrote a fatwa against France’s head scarf ban).
    So whther Spain’s voters punished attempts at politicization are completely beside the the point to what this means in the WoT and future AQ strategems.

  118. Diana Avatar
    Diana

    Yeah, you were wrong, and you don’t want to admit the implications.
    In any case even the 63% is way higher than any American turnout, so your criticism of the Spanish is absolute chutzpah.

  119. Doctor Slack Avatar
    Doctor Slack

    Okay, THIS is my last post for the day.
    Slack, nitpicking each item misses the big picture
    If the items don’t hold up, the “big picture” doesn’t hold up, either.
    Do you really think OBL is roaming freely, in a hotel room with room service at present. And AQ is having as easy a time of it?
    Do you really think inventing strawman positions for me is impressive? I didn’t accuse Bush of accomplishing absolutely nothing. That doesn’t mean I’m impressed by his lackadaisical follow-through in Afghanistan, his unrelated and poorly-executed adventure in Iraq, or his screwed-up spending priorities. Believe it or not, it’s possible to improve on this. Why are your standards so low? Do you not believe Americans deserve or can achieve better?
    You’re a type, the swaggering bully [blah blah blah]
    Yeah, you don’t get to lecture people about “dialogue” when your idea of it is to retreat into name-calling when your arguments don’t immediately impress. Hate to break it to you, pal, but there it is.

  120. capt joe Avatar
    capt joe

    As to comments about Zarqawi, he seems to have been quite successful outside of Iraq in the turkey attacks,etc. His major issues inside Iraq is that he cannot get support from the populace. That would seem to say quite a differnt thing about operations in Iraq.
    Rememeber that Zarqawi was “proven” by Messers Michael Isikoff and Mark Hosenball to have no relationship with AQ. Unfortunately, it seems that was untrue at the time and he had a pretty serious one. Recently, Pres. Bush is lambasted for not unleashing an attack inside of Iraq on Zarqawi even though many journalists were of the opinion he was a small fry.

  121. capt joe Avatar
    capt joe

    wow, a positive assessment in Iraq from the seatlle PI
    http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/164309_march14bruce.html

  122. PJF Avatar
    PJF

    Diana, I’m sorry if I wasn’t sorry enough. However, I’ve been admitting the implications all night (no sleep for me, not that I could have anyway).
    The implications are that the Spanish (yes, in greater number numbers than I first thought) have capitulated in the face of terrorism, and handed a massive victory to al-Qaeda and the left.
    You should be dancing in the street, because (whatever the motivations of the Spanish electorate) this is a major defeat for President Bush and the war on terror.
    The Dianas, the Doctor Slacks and the Robert McClellands will now see their Guardian “let’s talk” mindset become dominant. Here’s the new preferred way to address terror:
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/leaders/story/0,3604,1168548,00.html
    Make the most of it, because it’s doomed to fail. I hope you experience the consequences personally.

  123. capt joe Avatar
    capt joe

    okay everyone, group hug.
    “all we are saaaying,
    is give apeasement a chance”
    ;)

  124. Robert McClelland Avatar
    Robert McClelland

    >No matter who was right or wrong, AQ now believes they have a successful startegem to wage against enemy governments.
    How would you know what AQ believes? Are you a member of AQ?
    >I would expect this to be launched against Australia, the UK , the US and France
    Wow, what amazing insight. Do you expect the sun to come up tomorrow too?

  125. Doctor Slack Avatar
    Doctor Slack

    Ah, so “PJF” is just a Coulter wannabe, complete with lunatic “the left is al Qaeda” mindset and fantasies about the murder of political opponents. Should’ve known.

  126. Robert McClelland Avatar
    Robert McClelland

    >The implications are that the Spanish (yes, in greater number numbers than I first thought) have capitulated in the face of terrorism, and handed a massive victory to al-Qaeda and the left.
    No they haven’t. All they have done is vote for a different government to lead them. Only you and the other moronic right whingers think this new government will be inviting Osama to the swearing in ceremony but that is because you are all detached from reality.

  127. capt joe Avatar
    capt joe

    Well, robert, of course I am a member of AQ, OBL, himself showed me the secret sacred handshake. LOL :)
    This is like arguing with my dog but hey, paper training is always an important task. Her goes ;)
    Wobbie tsay, “How would you know what AQ believes? Are you a member of AQ?”
    We know this, Robert, because of documents that were found hinting at a strategy of collapsing the coaltion found.
    see: http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,8953875%255E1702,00.html
    An excerpt:
    Researchers with the Norwegian Defence Research Establishment who have specialised in digging up original al-Qaeda releases and interviews, told the NRK television channel they had discovered a document on an Arabic website last year outlining al-Qaeda strategies on how to force the United States and its allies to leave Iraq, and pointing to Spain as the “weakest link”.
    The document also reportedly predicts that the other partners in the US-led coalition would follow like “pieces of domino” if Spain were to withdraw from Iraq.
    So you see Wobbie, they were the weakest link Goodbye!!
    So wobbie, grand royal astronomer for Canada, extrudes: “Wow, what amazing insight. Do you expect the sun to come up tomorrow too?”
    To which I say, read the article, it clearly says that a domino action is anticipated. If theose dominoes don’t fall willingly, they can be exploded into position. Now that they believe it works, except more dominos/bombs.
    love and kisses Robbie poo! Give appeasement a chance. ;)

  128. PJF Avatar
    PJF

    Hey, Doctor Slack, was that childish insult (you know, those things you lie about regarding as being beneath you) your LAST post?

  129. Robert McClelland Avatar
    Robert McClelland

    >We know this, Robert, because of documents that were found hinting at a strategy of collapsing the coaltion found.
    I take it you’ve never heard of disinformation?

  130. Paul H. Avatar
    Paul H.

    R. McClelland and Slack:
    “Moronic right wingers” aren’t the ones who are flying airplanes into towers and detonating bombs in railcars. I think such events cause “right wingers” to get a little unhinged, thus their regrettable extremes in language when they are unable to penetrate your Bush-skeptical armor.
    (No I’m not being sarcastic, I genuinely believe they’re out of line to assail you guys with personal insults about manhood, brainpower, etc. It’s a cowardly thing to do but of course this anonymous format makes it easy).
    Dr. Slack, in my Barak example earlier I was referring to the standard “Arab street” reaction that was reported in many places, when the newly elected Barak govt made a precipitate Israeli withdrawl from Lebanon; the Arab world widely hailed it as a sign of weakness.
    I think this analogy –Israeli withdrawl, to the prospect of an immediate Spanish troop withdrawl from Iraq (as promised by the new government) — is an excellent historical one, close in both time and distance. Weren’t you the one who disparaged 1930’s “appeasement” analogies earlier?
    Do you honestly believe that the Sharon visit to the “Temple Mount” was really the proximate cause for the current (Sep 2000) intifada, and not just a convenient excuse for Arafat (who saw an opportunity to force further “unilateral” withdrawals)?
    (Now don’t go off on one of your clever diversions — I’m one who disapproves of the Likud settlement policy and thinks we should have used our financial aid leverage to stop it long ago (in the early 80’s) — but that’s irrelevant to my analogy point).
    I think OBL really believes in his “Andalusia” irredentism, but he’s politically astute in his own twisted way (like Hitler was). If “Andalusia” proves to be not so saleable as an excuse for further bomb attacks, he’ll seize on whatever is to hand. Thus my suggestion that U.S bases in Spain may become the next excuse for Islamic bombing attacks — if OBL and his like-minded brothers see that the Spanish Socialists make an immediate withdrawal of troops from Iraq. They’ll make the direct connection of troop withdrawl)(if it happens — I hope it doesn’t) as a response to 11 March, and be vastly encouraged and “exultant”.
    (BTW you don’t think OBL et al were “exultant” in that video found in that house in S. Afghanistan? He sure looked exultant (or extremely smug) to me, when he was receiving the praise of his visitors).
    The analogy seems clear to me. You disparage another poster for his supposed insight into Al Queda–Good Lord, how much more insight do we need? We’ve learned quite well what these people are capable of.

  131. Doctor Slack Avatar
    Doctor Slack

    Well, having broken my vow of silence twice now, guess I might as well do it once more to respond to some interesting stuff from Paul H.
    in my Barak example earlier I was referring to the standard “Arab street” reaction that was reported in many places, when the newly elected Barak govt made a precipitate Israeli withdrawl from Lebanon
    ISTR that Arabs generally saw it as a victory for the Arab world — which is unsurprising but doesn’t really tell us much about its potential impact on the later intifada. The Palestinian reaction was mixed, but the response from the PLO was immediately to emphasize that Lebanon and Palestine weren’t in comparable situations. (Per the MEMRI summary of those responses.)
    I commend you for looking toward a closer historical analogy, but I don’t think it holds up.
    Do you honestly believe that the Sharon visit to the “Temple Mount” was really the proximate cause for the current (Sep 2000) intifada
    Yes, I think it was. I don’t think it was the proximate cause of escalating that intifada into a suicide-bombing campaign; that happened as Fatah looked for ways to retaliate against the lethal IDF response to demonstrations. But I think Sharon knew perfectly well what he was doing with his Temple Mount… “visit” seems too anemic a term, given that he brought a small army with him and was known as a representative of a small clique of “rebuild the Temple” fanatics. “Provocation” is the only word that seems accurate. (EIR has the goods here.)
    not just a convenient excuse for Arafat (who saw an opportunity to force further “unilateral” withdrawals)?
    No, because frankly I don’t believe Arafat was interested in unilateral Israeli withdrawals by 2000. By that point he had actually eked a pretty good personal deal out of Israel, portraying himself as a “freedom fighter” while in fact setting himself up as Israel’s governor-by-proxy in the Occupied Territories. (Palestinian political leaders have a long history of publicly decrying Israel’s actions while, in fact, setting themselves up to profit from them; Arafat’s only the latest in a long line of those.) He had managed to convert the Palestinian Authority into his own fiefdom, and had little motive to jeopardize this — though obviously he still felt himself to be acting in the best interests of Palestinians and negotiating on their behalf, as witness his mishandling of Barak’s ungenerous offer in summer of 2000.
    When all is said and done, Arafat’s shaky political legitimacy among his people does stem from at least appearing to be a genuine “freedom fighter.” So there was no way for him not to be associated with the intifada when it happened. Once he was there I tend to think he decided to make the most of it — and I’m not one of those who thinks he wasn’t in direct control of the al-Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigades.
    If “Andalusia” proves to be not so saleable as an excuse for further bomb attacks, he’ll seize on whatever is to hand.
    That UBL will still find rationales, however loopy, for terrorism isn’t in doubt. All those excuses will not be equally saleable to his intended audience, however.
    Will hirabists be “encouraged” by a Spanish pull-out from Iraq? Conceivably. OTOH, continued Spanish presence gives them a different form of “encouragement” and motivation — that of carrying on the struggle and seeking more warriors to drive the crusader Mongol mercenaries from the heart of the Islamic world. So really, Spain’s first consideration is going to have to be what’s best for Spain and where her money is best invested in the whole anti-terrorism effort. The PSOE should certainly not be paralyzed by the prospect of bin Laden thinking he’s won a round; as long as they’re investing their resources wisely, what bin Laden thinks or doesn’t think about their policies won’t matter a whit.

  132. Diana Avatar
    Diana

    I hope you experience the consequences personally.
    Which proves what kind of an unspeakable lowlife you are. It’s not difficult to uncover the rage crawling around underneath the barely civilized facade of the War Party, is it?
    Regarding Sharon’s visit to the Temple Mount, this is a side issue, but since it has been raised, it is actually a severe Torah prohibition (that is, against Jewish law) for any Jew to set foot on the Mount, for fear of treading on the former site of the Holy of Holies (the Ark where the Torah was placed). I do not know of one notable rabbi who has ever rescinded this prohibition. Thus Ariel Sharon was breaking Jewish law by walking there.

  133. Diana Avatar
    Diana

    Revision: it seems that the Chief Rabbi of Israel advocated blowing up the Temple Mount after the 1967 war, but cooler heads prevailed. For an analysis from a right-wing (but factual) point of view, see:
    http://www.jcpa.org/jpsr/s99-yc.htm
    In any case the upshot is that good Jews aren’t supposed to go gadding about on the Temple Mount.

  134. canonist Avatar
    canonist

    I think this view is DEAD WRONG. The Spanish vote was driven by a) Aznar’s government’s attempt to blame ETA for what appears to have been an Al Qaeda attack; and b) the sense that the IRAQ war was a DIVERSION from the war on terrorism. The terrorists did not intimidate the Spanish people; they simple demonstrated that the Bush administration logic (taking out Saddam helps the War on Terrorism) was specious.

  135. PJF Avatar
    PJF

    “unspeakable lowlife”
    Well, apparently not quite entirely unspeakable. Also amusing is your accusation of rage whilst bandying about “war party” generalisations. Such red passion.
    But most amusing, and most revealing, is your volunteering an acknowledgement of what the consequence of your simplistic, tree-hugging twaddle would entail. I didn’t mention anything specifically, and anyone might have thought that you’d be delighted at the fruition of your ‘policies’.
    It never ceases to amaze me that people can seek to expose themselves to so much information and yet fail to get even the most basic clue about reality. There’s a wonderful Orwell quote about only intellectuals being so stupid as to believe US forces in Britain in WWII were an occupation force. Have to go back to work now, so can’t search for it. I’m sure you get the general idea, though.
    Or maybe not…

  136. onecent Avatar
    onecent

    The Spanish vote was driven by…… b) the sense that the IRAQ war was a DIVERSION from the war on terrorism.……so, just what was the Socialist’s compelling public position on advancing the war on terror that made them a better choice with voters? The election results suggest that the Spanish have no interest in participating actively in a coalition based war on terror. Their troops will be gone from Iraq and they have chosen to make it a local police matter. AQ is satisfied.
    The terrorists did not intimidate the Spanish people; they simple demonstrated that the Bush administration logic (taking out Saddam helps the War on Terrorism) was specious.
    they simple demonstrated…..simply demonstrated!!!????…..200 hundred dead to make their point!!! Savages murder to make a point, the normal write letters to the editor.
    If Iraq is such a diversion, why was it so important for terrorists to manipulate the defeat of Anzar’s party?

  137. capt joe Avatar
    capt joe

    Robsky
    “Disinformation” ?
    Why yes, I read your “stuff” all the time but I would characterize it as “strong like bull, smart like tractor” misinformation. ;)
    Well you are the one with the vulcan mind link going with OBL. How does that get through your tinfoil hat. You have one on me I sure could not get that to work.

  138. capt joe Avatar
    capt joe

    Read tacitus excellent post on OBL and his plans for the return of Al Andalusia
    http://38.144.96.23/tacitus/archives/001596.html

  139. canonist Avatar
    canonist

    Mr ONECENT,
    I read your reply and I keep thinking of a cartoon in which a fellow takes out after an annoying bug with a shotgun. He might do a lot of things which could deal with bug, but he takes to blasting holes in his house (and missing the fly), each time he misses, his resolve to destroy the fly grows more intense. He’s not going to let this fly get the better of him! No way! And pretty soon, the house is destroyed and the bug flies off.
    The Terrorists did not kill those people to make this point. I simply said that this act demonstrates that what has been done in the name of fighting terrorism has not done the job. I believe that the coalition has spent those resources for GOOD, but not for fighting terrorism.
    And since a government’s first responsibility is to protect and defend its people, it seems to me this is reasonably seen as a sign that the Aznar government had misplaced priorities.

  140. onecent Avatar
    onecent

    I simply said that this act demonstrates that what has been done in the name of fighting terrorism has not done the job.
    No kidding. It’s not for years going to be a finish task. That’s the point. Your summary of “not done the job” is premature. For every Spanish election set back, there have been positive results as well.
    And since a government’s first responsibility is to protect and defend its people, it seems to me this is reasonably seen as a sign that the Aznar government had misplaced priorities.
    Yeah, the Spanish are safe for now. They are safe until their next election cycle. And God help them is they displease the terrorists with any hint of changing parties again. That’s the point of yesterday’s election and Aznar’s correct perception of ultimate safety by annihilation of terrorists versus self-imposed silence and you live for now. Or did 3/11 not make that clear enough for you? The Spanish have only bought themselves some time.

  141. Doctor Slack Avatar
    Doctor Slack

    Your summary of “not done the job” is premature.
    By this logic, any attempt to assess different approaches to anti-terrorism will always be “premature.” For example, when your actions are spawning new groups inspired by al Qaeda at an alarming rate (Swopa covered this on needlenose a while ago, though the original article is now behind a pay wall), are you “getting the job done”?
    Aznar has been punished by his own electorate for lying about the costs and consequences of a war — a war which did, in fact, inflame Islamic terrorism and probably contributed to 3/11. There’s no reason the Spanish should abandon good sense and blind themselves to that fact to please obnoxious warmongers. Spain’s PSOE historically has a good record on actually fighting terrorism instead of just claiming to while pursuing unrelated agendas — chances are they’re a step in the right direction for addressing the question of Islamist terror. I strongly suspect you’d do well to stop squawking at them and start listening to them.

  142. canonist Avatar
    canonist

    I agree with Doctor Slack and would add that you can blame the Spanish/Europeans all you like, but the Bush Policy of doing what it believes it right and may the rest of world be damned is equally responsible — Our government has stupidly and in a bullying way alienated them as well. Now we’re shocked and outraged by the fact that they might not follow. That moron in the White House is absolutely responsible!!!

  143. onecent Avatar
    onecent

    By this logic, any attempt to assess different approaches to anti-terrorism will always be “premature.”
    No, stupid, I’m talking outcomes(“finished task”), not process. Do you ever get tired of your banal, but gamey mind?
    Find another sucker to have a dialogue with, ours is over.

  144. Doctor Slack Avatar
    Doctor Slack

    No, stupid,
    Wow, you just get classier with every post.
    I’m talking outcomes(“finished task”), not process.
    How do you distinguish between the two when you’re fighting a terrorist network? Do you really envision a point where the terrorists say “enough! we’re signing a truce!” and it’s all over? The danger of the “war” metaphor is that it can lead to sloppy thinking about the nature of terrorism.
    Not that I’m expecting a coherent reply to this, since you don’t seem to do that well with people who actually disagree with you and stuff. But if you’re serious about anti-terrorism then you need to be thinking about it.

  145. blah Avatar
    blah

    I think you are hoping for too much. After all, this is a nation that remained neutral during WWII when the Nazi forces of darkness were rolling over europe.
    Um, try reading up on the Spanish Civil War some time, moron. Spain had already been taken over by fascists — with Nazi assistance — by 1939.

  146. blah Avatar
    blah

    (And in other news, Andrea Harris still needs a long session with a Hitachi Magic Wand.)

  147. Andrea Harris Avatar
    Andrea Harris

    And in other news, you are a juvenile coward who doesn’t even have the courage to leave a real email address in your posting field. Oh wait — that’s not news.

  148. Doctor Slack Avatar
    Doctor Slack

    Whoa. I see what he means, now.

  149. God's ex-Boyfriend Avatar
    God’s ex-Boyfriend

    “More’s the pity that terrorism had an impact on the election in Spain”
    Well it certainly looks like terrorism is going to impact the election in the United States. Ask around and you’ll hear lots of people who aren’t that impressed with GWB’s handling of [insert issue here] but feel they should “support the president in the war on terror”. A pity.

  150. Eric Scheie Avatar
    Eric Scheie

    Zapatero: “The first thing I will do when I am elected is to go to the United States and support John Kerry, my allies will be the students and families who can’t afford their own home….”
    Source: http://www.majorcadailybulletin.es/letters.dba?1304+7+0

  151. Peter UK Avatar
    Peter UK

    Sadly, Spain has already made itself a likely target for more terrorist attacks.Having arrested the alleged perpetrators of the crime they will have to be tried,if they are found guilty sentenced.If they are imprisoned they will be the excuse for more bombing.If you are tough on terror you are a target.

  152. Aakash Avatar
    Aakash

    Many of the Spanish people were probably looking out for their own self-interests, and believed that their current leadership was engaging in policies that were making their country less safe, and more vulnerable to terrorism. The Spanish people were thinking of their own interests, not the interests of the terrorists. Many of them likely voted based upon the security interests of their country, and their citizenry.
    It is the Spanish people who won.