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Moveon already

51 comments on Moveon already

Moveon already
: I just watched the 15 MoveOn ads against Bush. And I have to say that I now think the war was wrong.

Gotcha! January fools! It’d take more than seven and a half minutes of pop polemics to brainwash me.

The ads all followed the assignment: Skewer Bush in 30 seconds.

And it’s the assignment that bothers me. The assignment only extends the problem with liberalism today: It’s all about being against. It’s all about no. It’s all about bad dog, bad.

How much better it would have been to assign these creative masses to come up with ads that present a positive view of a better world without Bush and with a vision we can grab onto and support with pride.

But there’s none of that. This is all about bashing. That’s what MoveOn is about here. That’s what the campaign on the Democratic side is about these days — bashing Bush or each other.

This isn’t World Wrestling, folks. It’s our country. It’s our future. It’s our lives. It’s our world.

Hell, I’m a Democrat. I voted against Bush. I should be the perfect audience for this: I’m Mr. Undecided; I can’t find a candidate I like; I’m dying to hear a vision I can buy. Instead, this only turns me off: More bashing, more carping, more complaining, no ideas.

It’s time to get past the complaining and do something.

It’s time to move on, MoveOn.

: More: Driving to a church meeting tonight, I kept thinking about this. What bothers me is that it’s venting, just venting.

Now venting feels good but it is essentially an immature response; it’s foot-stomping of the sort we all did when we toddled and we were supposed to get past that, to learn how to accomplish what we want instead of just complaining about what we don’t want.

But maybe Andrew Sullivan is right (below) and venting is really what the Democratic campaign is all about.

Howard Dean is the Venter-in-Chief.

And that’s what bugs me about him.

: AND ONE MORE THING… A comment talks about the ads professionals have made in campaigsn over the years and that got me to realize what else really bothers me about this: I expect the professionals to make bashfests, sadly. But I had hoped for something better from the people.

But, you know, I’ll bet there were better ads in the bunch, with more vision and hope and the ethic of building. But the jury Moveon picked wouldn’t pick those ads.

: In the comments, I also get pissed when someone tries to say I’m not liberal. Go see my pissyfit at the pissant (oh, no, a label!) there. I have to go to a church meeting now.

And, no, just because I’m going to church, it doesn’t mean I’m Republican. The most liberal people I know are in church…

51 responses to “Moveon already”

  1. Richard Bennett Avatar
    Richard Bennett

    Yup, you can’t beat a set of coherent policies, whether they’re good or bad, with no policies of your own, and that’s where the Dems stand right now. Hence the loud noises – they’re gnashing their teeth because Bush has co-opted all their issues and combined them with his own, and they’re all working. Democrat pros are very, very scared right now, and with good reason.

  2. Anthony Avatar
    Anthony

    Jeff, I respectfully disagree with you on this. Fostering creativity in politics is a good exercise, one that I enjoyed participating in (as a voter) and one that is an advancement in politics.
    It wasn’t about Bush-bashing, but rather summing up the Bush Administration’s work for the American people so far. Sure, some of the ads submitted bashed Bush, but on the whole, they highlighted his gaps in leadership for our country — from the economy to the environment to the war.

  3. capt joe Avatar
    capt joe

    you mean the economy which is at a 20 year high in as of a few days ago ALL factors. Imagine if Bush had actual leadership it might have been a 400 year high. If Dean can cause a 40 year high in the economy I would vote for him but I read econopundit also and Steve doesn’t think it would be anywhere close. His arguments are pretty convincing.

  4. scott Avatar
    scott

    “you mean the economy which is at a 20 year high”
    erh. i don’t think anyone would consider the economy at a 20 year high. you must be refering to the quarter 3 GDP growth.
    say this with me: “Quarterly GDP growth is NOT the be all and end all of economic indicators.”

  5. Roger L. Simon Avatar
    Roger L. Simon

    “…bad dog, bad.” Funny, Jeff. I laughed.
    (I can’t get myself to write those Internet acronyms like LOL. They still feel like fingernails down a blackboard… OTOH…)

  6. br Avatar
    br

    All the ads harping about the legitimacy of the war can be swept aside by Bush with this one fact: an estimated 300,000 Iraqis dead under Saddam. Forget moral calculus, this is simple moral aritmetic. And for those who would argue for the continuation of sanctions or for “smarter” sanctions, I refer you to this article:
    http://www.harpers.org/CoolWar.html?pg=1
    Iraq had weapons of mass destruction – Saddam and all his thugs.

  7. br Avatar
    br

    All the ads harping about the legitimacy of the war can be swept aside by Bush with this one fact: an estimated 300,000 Iraqis dead under Saddam. Forget moral calculus, this is simple moral arithmetic. And for those who would argue for the continuation of sanctions or for “smarter” sanctions, I refer you to this article:
    http://www.harpers.org/CoolWar.html?pg=1
    Iraq had weapons of mass destruction – Saddam and all his thugs.

  8. Larry Avatar
    Larry

    “And it’s the assignment that bothers me. The assignment only extends the problem with liberalism today: It’s all about being against. It’s all about no. It’s all about bad dog, bad.”
    I know that there may be much disagreement with this concept, but I believe that the majority of the liberal movement has become addicted to some sort of idealistic nihilism. This is not something NEW, but rather the logical outcome of the 60’s. Now everyone has ‘rights’, but few have any responsibility. This can be exampled with the growing HIV rates, abortion rates, peace movement, social programs and our total fascination with ‘things’. I do not think that it’s a ‘class warfare’ of the have’s versus the have-not’s, but rather the entire philosophy of nihilism. Instead of building families, character, a nation or a career it has become fun and trendy to destroy. And, if the destruction can be done in a clever manner (so that our peers will applaud) then, let the fun begin! Moveon.com is only a pathetic reflection of the entire ‘liberal/social’ movement in this once great country. It’s going to get worse.

  9. Mike G Avatar
    Mike G

    You focus on the “skewer” part but surely just as damning is the “30 seconds” part. It’s not enough that the professionals have reduced every election to 30-second attack ads– now let’s get the citizens involved making them, too!
    Yes, I know they wanted an ad to run on TV. But I don’t know that anyone’s seen them there yet– only on the Web. So they could have just as easily had 1 minute or 5 minute or 30 minute movies, or Flash animations, or Powerpoint slides, or anything. Yes, some of that would have been only longer moonbatism, but some of it would have given smart people enough room to just possibly make a better, smarter case than Bush = Hitler. (I kept thinking I should attend a pro-Saddam “peace” rally with a sign that said “Bush = Hitler, Sadam = Churchill,” just to take that idiocy to its extreme.) Instead, Move On insisted that the People dumb it down for the People, and wound up with lousy ads and a lot of bad press. Thanks, geniuses, for doing nobody any good.

  10. Fred Wilson Avatar
    Fred Wilson

    Jeff
    Go read Wes Clark’s Families First tax plan.
    Go read his plan to make the first two years of college free for most students.
    Read his plan for an improved health care system.
    He’s not bashing Bush – he’s putting ideas on the table that make sense.
    Maybe he’s your guy. Just give him a shot.

  11. Oliver Avatar
    Oliver

    You’re undecided? I guess undecided now means you’re in favor of everything the President is. Please tell me the last political ad you saw with a “positive” vision from the opposition, and I’ll tell you how many points the politician lost by.
    Seriously, stop presenting yourself as a “liberal” by any stretch of the imagination Jeff.

  12. Jeff Jarvis Avatar
    Jeff Jarvis

    Oliver:
    Who the hell made you the holder of the definition of liberal?
    And how dare you put yourself above to decree who and who isn’t liberal? That’s really quite haughty. Very unliberal, I’d say.
    Want to hear what I say about health insurance… abortion… gun control… welfare… and, most imoportantly, human rights (even the rights of Iraqis).
    Hell,I’ll bet on many scales I’m more liberal than Howard Dean.
    You don’t know what you’re talking about because what you’re talking about is me. So don’t presume to label me, mister. I find that insulting and offensive.

  13. Greg Avatar
    Greg

    Meow.
    Heh.
    Indeed.

  14. billg Avatar
    billg

    Jeff, as a yellow-dog Democrat who’s been a real liberal since before the talk radio market dweebs ruined the word in the interests of ratings, I understand your frustration about this year’s slate of candidates. Given a choice between a Simpson’s rerun and listening to one of these folks, I’ll choose Homer any day. God help me, the only Democrats who don’t remind me of Snow White’s entourage are Hillary and Bill.

  15. Swopa Avatar
    Swopa

    Like the man said, venting feels good.
    But I am curious how much time Jeff has spent looking for “positive” messages from liberals — would it be longer than the combined running time of those MoveOn ads?
    I mean, you yourself went to the MoveOn site looking for something to bash, didn’t you, Jeff?

  16. Mike G Avatar
    Mike G

    Apparently a Liberal is whoever Das Liberal Kommandant hasn’t thrown out of Liberalism… yet.

  17. anne.elk Avatar
    anne.elk

    Jeff, I, for one, would very much like to hear what you have to say about health insurance, abortion, gun control, welfare, and human rights.
    Today, Dennis Kucinich reminded me again of how important it is to listen to everyone and hear what they have to say. Growing up, I was taught to believe in Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations.
    I have cited you often for how negative your own posts have been, and I would definitely like to see and hear more about who YOU are, not about people you don’t like.
    And so I invite you over the next few days to discuss these topics. Please.
    Thanks!

  18. Oliver Avatar
    Oliver

    Jeff, I never appointed myself as the arbiter of liberalism, but if it walks and talks like a duck… You’re the one who has repeatedly labeled yourself as a liberal, yet in all the months since you have run this blog – I’ve yet to see you take a liberal position on any of the issues at hand. When I see someone parroting the GOP line and taking every chance to slam the Democrats across the board – what else am I to think?

  19. Mithras Avatar
    Mithras

    Want to hear what I say about health insurance… abortion… gun control… welfare… and, most imoportantly, human rights (even the rights of Iraqis).
    Why don’t we already know something about your thoughts on the first four topics, Jarvis?
    Perhaps because, politically, you’ve been a one-note song, and that note is always how stupid, mean and evil those liberals are. You’ve even got a post below complaining that they’re cheap because they bought the less expensive tickets to some event first. Yeah, why is it we’ve mistaken you for a conservative?
    After you get back from church, why don’t you tell us something – anything – that conservatives do that piss you off. And after that, how about some positive thoughts about liberals? I’m not telling you what to do, but if you are sincere in claiming you’re no conservative, actually writing about it rather than just defensively claiming it over and over will be more effective.

  20. Michael J. Totten Avatar
    Michael J. Totten

    Oliver and Mithras are annoyed that Jeff Jarvis isn’t a team player. But you know, folks, politics isn’t a game of football, nor is it war. It is okay if you think the other side is right once in a while, and it’s also okay for a writer, any writer, to focus on whichever topics he or she chooses.
    I also have liberal views on health care, abortion, taxes, the separation of church and state, gay rights, and environmental policies (to name just a few items), and I’ve written about every single one of those topics on my blog.
    But that doesn’t stop people from banishing me as a right-winger because I support an aggressive foreign policy just like I did when Bill Clinton was president and it was fashionable for other liberals to do so.
    The end result of all these relentless attacks has been for me to finally agree and say to heck with it, I’m not one of you after all. I’m an Independent now, and I no longer feel any need to help pull for the Democrats out of any loyalty whatsoever.
    Banishing heretics might make you feel good, but it certainly doesn’t help your cause an iota.

  21. Andrea Harris Avatar
    Andrea Harris

    Anne-elk’s and Mithras’s comments can be summed up thus:

    *Whine* “Why can’t Jeff write about the things on his own blog that we want to read in the manner that would please us?” *Whine*

    Damn, lazies, get your own blogs. Oliver might be an officious little brat, but at least he has his own blog.

  22. anne.elk Avatar
    anne.elk

    O Michael, it’s not a about banishing heretics, it’s about, oh, what’s the right wingnut blogger term?
    Oh yes, “fact checking your ass” and “fisking”. Me, I like to think I help keep Jeff turning out good quality work, I am teh intarweb editor. But if it helps you any, than yeh, I am just fact checking his ass, and fisking him.
    But truly Jeff, Michael has a point, if you came out you would feel good about yourself, and we would all feel much better about you.
    And if you actually listen to what I, swopa, Oliver, and Mithras are saying, and have said, then you might consider that maybe your posts are negative in the extreme. Maybe you have a wonderful tool for self-expression, a blog, a pulpit, and you are wasting insisting on always defining yourself with negatives.
    Peace, love, and joy to the body.

  23. Michael J. Totten Avatar
    Michael J. Totten

    Anne,
    You can’t fact-check Jeff or me or anyone else by saying that we don’t have liberal opinions on healthcare, abortion, gay rights or whatever when we know damn well that we do.
    Unless you can peak inside our heads (and that would be a neat trick), try to keep the fact-checking separate from the mind-reading.

  24. anne.elk Avatar
    anne.elk

    I haven’t said that Jeff doesn’t have liberal opinions. What I have said is that his posts are always negative. What Oliver has said is that any liberal opinions are certainly not evident in his repeated measurements.
    This is not mind reading. This is the reporting of field observations, drawing the logical conclusion from those observations and reporting on same.
    And when Jeff insists he has liberal opinions all of his own, I’ve told him that I am delighted to hear that, and I invite him to use his pulpit to discuss them.
    It is well known that I have my own theories and that they are mine. Jeff, please do discuss your theories. Please!

  25. anne.elk Avatar
    anne.elk

    Hey Michael,
    In fact, I often make the assumption that Jeff is a liberal and so I try to engage in a constructive dialogue with him and try to enlist his support in the fight.
    This morning, I was appalled to find David Brooks’ claiming that any criticism of neocons was anti-semitism. I explicitly came to this site to ask Jeff what his views were and to find out if he was as upset as I was about this. I was hoping to learn why or why not and gain an education and new appreciation. Regrettably, Jeff did not respond to this opportunity.
    At other times, when Jeff bravely stood by Jewish kids in France by stating how he would wear a kippah if it would only help them in their struggles against French anti-semitism, I tried to help Jeff understand how anti-semitism does exist in our own country, and encouraged him to wear a kippah to help our children. Again, to my dismay, Jeff did not respond to this invitation.
    I know that within Jeff is a liberal heart, and a considerate man, and I only ask again for Jeff to make use of his pulpit to explore his own ideas and theories.

  26. Kimmitt Avatar
    Kimmitt

    In a world where John Lott creates imaginary people to praise his work, asking for posts that have verisimilitude which praise liberal values in order to conclude that a person is, in fact, liberal makes a certain amount of sense.
    I mean, some of us are just critical people (don’t let my wife hear me say that), and we contribute by paring off the flaws from work that can be better. But it does help to have a little balance.

  27. Armed Liberal Avatar
    Armed Liberal

    …and maybe, like me, Jeff sounds critical of the Democratic Party because he’d like to be part of a party that can a) win, and b) actually accomplish something for someone other than Terry McAuliffe’s donor list when it does.
    While I spend a lot of time coaching kids on both teams when I act as a coach for Littlest Guy’s t-ball team, I found that I spent all my time working with my own team at the higher levels. Let people who believe in the doctrines of the GOP spend their time trying to figure out how to build a decent, effective Republican Party.
    I’ll spend my energy working on my side of the aisle.
    A.L.

  28. Bill Herbert Avatar
    Bill Herbert

    You’re the one who has repeatedly labeled yourself as a liberal, yet in all the months since you have run this blog – I’ve yet to see you take a liberal position on any of the issues at hand.
    I’ve been a faithful reader of Buzzmachine for quite some time, and I can attest to reading several liberal positions Jeff has taken.
    In fact, I haven’t seen him take any conservative positions, unless you define supporting the liberation of Iraq and the broader war on Islamic fundamentalist terror to be a conservative position.
    Which I don’t.

  29. Mikhel Avatar
    Mikhel

    Jeff —
    One of the reasons I visit your blog is that I see you as being somewhat similar to myself. Wanting a democrat, watching the democrats, listening to them… And feeling like they’re out of touch. Not all of them, but, specifically, the democratic presidential candidates. I imagine I might be a little more conservative than yourself, but the one time I voted, these are the candidates I voted for:
    Al Gore for President;
    Hillary Clinton for Senator;
    Given the chance, I’d have voted for Chuck Schumer, too. Essentially, the father, the son, and the holy spirit of Liberalism.
    Times have changed. The only one of those three who has my support now is Hillary, but she’s not going to be around in 04′. I’ve been looking at Bush for President, and thinking about registering Republican.
    I’m now looking at Wes Clark for president. I’m looking pretty hard — and maybe you should too.

  30. Eric Deamer Avatar
    Eric Deamer

    So, Oliver, “liberal”= whatever the Democratic party does, and “conservative”= whatever the Republican party does. Well, I guess it’s settled then. Starting the Vietnam war= liberal. Abolishing slavery = conservative. Time for you to start arguing to get us back in to Viet Nam and to reinstate slavery, or else you’re not a real liberal.

  31. Steve in Houston Avatar
    Steve in Houston

    I think part of the problem, Jeff, is that quite often you DON’T TAKE EVERYTHING TOTALLY AND COMPLETELY SERIOUSLY.
    I mean, where is the outrage? You can’t be a liberal these days without it.

  32. Shaun Dale Avatar
    Shaun Dale

    I’m not postitive how Jeff stands on any of the issues he refered to, but I’m a relatively new reader here. I could guess, though, and come pretty close, I bet.
    Liberalism, though, has as much or more to do with how issues are approached than with what decision is made, and on that basis I find him quite transparently liberal.
    Far more liberal, in fact, than Howard Dean ever has been or is ever likely to be.

  33. Robert Avatar
    Robert

    >And it’s the assignment that bothers me. The assignment only extends the problem with liberalism today: It’s all about being against. It’s all about no. It’s all about bad dog, bad.
    I don’t think you understand the meaning of the word opposition. The Republican party is in power and the Democratic party is the opposition. It is the oppositions job to scrutinize every fart the party in power lets out. It was no different when the Dems were in office and the Repubs were the opposition.

  34. stubby Avatar
    stubby

    What’s the old saw about how the right looks for converts, and the left looks for heretics?

  35. Mithras Avatar
    Mithras

    Oliver and Mithras are annoyed that Jeff Jarvis isn’t a team player. But you know, folks, politics isn’t a game of football, nor is it war. It is okay if you think the other side is right once in a while, and it’s also okay for a writer, any writer, to focus on whichever topics he or she chooses.
    Hello? Totten, Jarvis claimed to be a liberal. I’m looking for any reason to believe him. He doesn’t want to say – it’s all too secret, what his liberal beliefs are, I guess. And now he’s crying it’s bordering on racism in a new post.
    Oh, I get. He’s a parody of a liberal. I see. Good one. That’s funny!

  36. Michael J. Totten Avatar
    Michael J. Totten

    It was no different when the Dems were in office and the Repubs were the opposition.
    Well, that’s certainly true. And the Republicans made fools of themselves when they did it too.
    Of course the Democrats are the opposition, but that doesn’t mean they should act like reactionaries. People in the middle don’t like reactionaries regardless of the brand-name, especially not in matters of great importance.

  37. George Stewart Avatar
    George Stewart

    “Liberalism” in the US is not liberalism. It ceased to be liberalism roundabout the last quarter of the 20th century. It is now cod socialism – not even real socialism, but a sneaky, dishonest imitiation.
    What happened to liberalism is equivalent to what would have happened had the Buchanans and their ilk actually gotten a hold of Republicanism, as was threatened; and it’s what has already happened to Islam in large parts of the Muslim world.
    IT GOT HIJACKED BY ITS OWN EXTREME ELEMENTS.
    How? Intimidation – most people would rather be seen to be right than actually be right (it’s easier, and anything for a quiet life, eh?). For years, extremists in the liberal movement have worked to intimidate liberals into believing that to be anti-socialist or anti-communist is to be illiberal – anti-progressive, even. Expose this proposition to the plain light of day, and you can see how ridiculous it is. But this embarrassingly nonsensical proposition, insinuated, snidely implied, is in fact what has destroyed liberalism.
    What we are witnessing on the web is a resurgence of true liberalism, composed of sensible elements of the left and right – the true Centre.
    “Liberalism” is dead. Long live liberalism!

  38. Dann Avatar
    Dann

    I guess the problem is what is meant by the term “liberal”.
    It used to mean “open-minded”. But open-minded people understand from world history that “tax the rich, feed the poor, ’til there are no rich no more” style government is counter productive.
    Those currently leading the Democratic party are notable only by their mean spirited demeanor. A mean spiritedness that exceeds that which was attributed to Mr. Newt, IMHO. They seem dedicated to the purpose of “getting” Mr. Bush.
    I don’t know that I’d agree with all of Jeff’s positions in that laundry list of opinions. However, like Jeff I am looking for someone to support in next year’s presidential race. Show me someone in favor of cutting the non-defense side of the budget, cutting the earmarks out of the DoD budget, lowering taxes, privatizing Social Security, ending our failed War on Drugs, and who is willing to combat the Islamic jihadists with the same verve and efficacy as Mr. Bush and I’ll show you the person I’ll be supporting next year.
    The last item is the most important one and this year’s collection of Democratic candidates have failed to grasp that fact.
    -Regards

  39. Sandy P. Avatar
    Sandy P.

    –Now venting feels good but it is essentially an immature response; it’s foot-stomping of the sort we all did when we toddled and we were supposed to get past that,–
    It’s still the 60s and they’re children. There’s a stereotype for you. Plus, with the education establishment being run by essentially commies and dumbing down of our students, is it any surprise they do not understand the vileness of Hitler?
    Enough stereotypes for you?
    Jeff, did you just get a lesson in “the softball of low expectations?”

  40. Sandy P. Avatar
    Sandy P.

    Let me clarify, “softball of low expectations” reviewing the ads?
    If someone really “got it” a good catchy ad would have gotten them a career in advertising/graphic artist because their work would have been seen by the country. It would have been a 30-second resume Ahhh, I’ve also lost many opportunities when I didn’t answer the knock.

  41. David Foster Avatar
    David Foster

    Many of today’s “liberals” are quite similar to the “reactionaries” of earlier times. These are people who are frightened of change in existing institutions (viz the public schools). They are anti-science/anti-technology and tend to hold magical beliefs (crystals, astrology, etc). They are disturbed by what used to be called “cosmopolitanism” (not labeled as “globalization”). A disturbing number of them are outright anti-Semites.
    I think that what has happened is that the *labels* “liberal” and “conservative” have remained, but the content underneath these labels has changed very significantly.

  42. raeburg Avatar
    raeburg

    Oliver, it’s probably best to remember your own history at a place like Metafilter, where you were constantly lambasted as being a “pretend liberal”, before you do the same to others for not toeing the party line.
    Jeff, I’d suggest you adopt Oliver’s technique when dealing with people questioning your liberalism: just say “oh well”.

  43. Collin Smith Avatar
    Collin Smith

    The term “liberal” has been vilified by the republicans in this country. The strict definition of liberal has more to do with inclusiveness, open mindedness and individual freedom. None of todays so called liberals are anything like that. Now liberal means big government and tax and spend because in the 80’s the republicans ran a bunch of “tax and spend liberal” campaign adds. It would have been more accurate to call them socialists, but now liberal means the same thing.
    The real problem here is that in our two party system we don’t have enough choices. There are two major parts to the democratic party, and 2 major parts of the republican party. Right now Dean is mobilizing the left left part of the party that wants to tax everyone into equality and enforce social goodness through government action. They also hate war and the military industrial complex in general. These people had been labeled liberal in the 80’s and everyone distanced themselves from it. Liberal was redefined by these adds. Only the most hardcore and resolute wore this label because it meant certain doom in national elections during the Reagan years. They have been ridiculed and out of power for 20 years and now that Dean looks like a primary winner they aren’t letting people on the bandwagon. They are mad at the DLC for selling out to win. The DLC of course represents the center left that won Clinton 2 presidencies and lost the House and Senate.
    You guys need to redefine the term liberal again and make it respectable. Go back to the literal translation. Call the clowns that use it now the socialist wannabe’s they are and be done with it.

  44. Robert Avatar
    Robert

    >People in the middle don’t like reactionaries regardless of the brand-name, especially not in matters of great importance.
    Of course they like reactionaries. How else can you explain the popularity of the Limbaughs, Coulters and Frankens? The probelem is though, at the end of the day when all the fun and games are over, some people don’t realize you are supposed to ignore what all these extremist nutters have been saying and focus on the issues.

  45. Bob King Avatar
    Bob King

    “I’m niether Left nor Right/
    I’m just stayin’ home tonight/
    Gettin’ lost in this hopeless little scene.” – Leonard Cohen
    “You are all a pack of cards!” – Alice
    I would like to refer you all to something published in The Nation – I believe the Nation is still considred “liberal” even though it refrains from soundbytes for the most part: it’s an article published some time ago, but bears re-reading. I’m going to impose my perspective on you as well, as I can, and clearly some of you could us a bit of perspective.
    Bush’s political opponents are caught in a fantasy that they can win against him simply by proving the superiority of their ideas. However, people do not support Bush for the power of his ideas, but out of the despair and desperation in their hearts. Whenever people are in the grip of a desperate dependency, they won’t respond to rational criticisms of the people they are dependent on.
    I’d also like to call your attention to Helen Thomas’s address which includes this memorable quote, refering to our nation and national ideals:
    We have lost our halo, because we represented the…best hopes and ideals of mankind and we have disappointed the world. To be a military superpower does not arrogate to us the right to invade countries, defy laws and dictate to other people. That is not us. It never was. We have no choice–it is imperative for us to take back the dawn.
    (the Nation)
    I’d like to see a bold, articulate, intelligent, coherent vision expressed by ANYONE. Liberal, conservate, republican, democrat, green, lib, pinko, loon, wingnut or twit; I’m open to ideas from all sides. Ideas, I say. Not diatribes, not ideological imperitives, not transparent arguments from authorities and pius moralisms; reason applied to facts in evidence is the only way to produce an opininion that isn’t steaming pile of spin.
    I’ve no hope at all for my Libertarian party. But all the Republicans and Democrats have going for them that makes them better suited is… well… inertia.
    I’m on a search for people who can tell the truth, whatever the implications for the party line. That implies they can also recognize truth when it bites them on the ass.
    So far, POSSIBLY Kerry might qualify in that regard, although I’m not sure he’d visibly wince.
    Dean comes closest in stated positions to my personal convictions – but that assumes that I trust that he won’t revise his views upon election to the extent GWB did. I don’t feel comfortable with that assumption, nor do I like his authoritarian style.
    However, I’d be much more sanguine about the whole mess if people on either side of the divide had a little more willingness to hold the feet of their own to the fire and demand effective, accurate, skilled and INFORMED representation.
    Those of you sick with the oppressive moralisms of Big L and Big D machines and their lack of meaningful traction on the issues are more than welcome to bring their wits over here.

  46. Mike Avatar
    Mike

    Here’s something I’m not undecided about.
    Willis is an idiot, and I only mean that in the best sense of the word only.
    The reason why you’re not a “liberal” is because you’re not taking part in the bash/hate W Bush brigades.
    HERE ARE THE “WILLIS” RULES –
    You can maintain some independence and wit and even at times speak positively of Iraq. However, most of the time you must denigrade and be wittingly cutting of the President, his intelligence, any possible connection nefarious to Bechtel or oil companies and present hints at least of “oil for war” either overtly or subtly.
    THEN YOU CAN BE CLASSIFIED A LIBERAL TO WILLIS,
    and I of course mean “OLIVER” and not “ARNOLD’S BROTHER”.
    Mike

  47. Andrea Harris Avatar
    Andrea Harris

    “Peace, love, and joy to the body.”
    Oh god, anne-elk is a Landru worshipper. “Landru, guide us!”

  48. Sandy P. Avatar
    Sandy P.

    Collin, socialist? Commie.

  49. Charlie Avatar
    Charlie

    It’s a complete veer, but Anne.elk, you say you were “taught to believe in IDIC”?
    You mean, like your folks taught that? You didn’t pick it up from Star Trek yourself?
    Oh, my.
    Excuse me, I think it’s time for a shot of my rheumatiz medicine ….

  50. joebob Avatar
    joebob

    You’re so dim I’m amazed you can type without causing yourself irreparable harm.
    FOX News presents crap that makes these commercials look like the Bible truth, and I’m sure you think it’s actually the news. You don’t like venting? I’ll bet you LOVE Bill O’Reilly and Rush (I’m not a crook) Limbaugh! Those are two of the biggest whores for the radical right and all they do is lie and vent!
    If you’re going to fling about assertions about Howard Dean – or anyone else – you should at least have the intellectual courage to substantiate your claims. Here’s an example:
    You say LIBERALISM is “all about being against??” First, find a dictionary. Then, find a few history books. Then read Kevin Phillips – the last man on the planet who’d call himsel a liberal.
    Who was it who said “you’re either with us or against us?” Who is it who has tried/is trying to abrogate almost every amendment in the Bill of Rights except the 2nd? Who is against the exercise of civil rights by American citizens? Who is against following the GENEVA COVENTION? Who is against following the signed and ratified ABM treaty? Who is against the Clean Air and Clean Water Acts? Who is against funding the “No Child Left Behind” tripe that he demanded be passed? Who is against paying the troops in Iraq their agreed Combat Pay? Who is against paying medical coverage for Reservists CURRENTLY SERVING in Iraq? Who is against keeping the VA HOSPITALS open? And who was it who was against a fair and open election in Florida? And spent MILLIONS of dollars to prevent it?
    NOT liberals. It is your vaunted Shammander in Chief and his screeching Neoconservative puppeteers. It is the Gulf War One Profiteer masquerading as Vice President (look it up before you open your yap). It is the scores of CHICKEN HAWKS in the Bush Administration. Go right down the line. Except for Colin Powell find ONE other senior official who wasn’t a draft dodger or isn’t STILL AWOL (there is no statute of limitations).
    Why does it seem that the radical Neoconservatives (look up “Conservative” in the dictionary, too) with the biggest mouths are also the biggest liars? You guys lie so much you’ve actually started to believe yourselves.
    Get a life. Better yet, get a brain. And the next time you’re on your way to a church meeting – in all seriousness – really ask yourself: What would Jesus do? Then explain why you would ever think He’d want you to support Bush.

  51. Joe Bob Avatar
    Joe Bob

    God help the United States of America. I just started reading the tripe some of these idiots are writing. Doesn’t anyone read anymore? What ever happened to critical thinking skills?
    It FINALLY comes out of the Labor Department today that the only reason that employment figures are going up is that so many people either ran out of benefits (tax cuts for the rich – benefit cuts for the middle class!) or gave up trying to find work. last month this BOOMING economy created 1,000 new jobs. In all of America! Gosh, who were the lucky 20 in your state? At the same time, more than 300,000 people were officially “removed” from the unemployment rolls, because of technical reasons. There’s your “drop” in unemployment. The only thing booming is the sound of the door slamming on foreclosed homes (also reaching new heights).
    I’ll bet W. could tell you there are Weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq and Saddam is in cahoots with Al Qaida and you’d believe him! Oh, wait…