Dean finds religion

Dean finds religion
: Two days ago, in the words of the NY Times, Joe Lieberman called “for strengthening the role of religion in public life and took a veiled swipe at Howard Dean, who has run a steadfastly secular campaign.”

“I know that some people believe that faith has no place in the so-called public square,” said Mr. Lieberman, an observant Jew. “They forget that the constitutional separation of church and state, which I strongly support, promises freedom of religion, not freedom from religion. Some people forget that faith was central to our founding and remains central to our national purpose and our individual lives.”

And today, Dean finds religion in the Boston Globe:

Presidential contender Howard B. Dean, who has said little about religion while campaigning except to emphasize the separation of church and state, described himself in an interview with the Globe as a committed believer in Jesus Christ and said he expects to increasingly include references to Jesus and God in his speeches as he stumps in the South.

Dean, 55, who practices Congregationalism but does not often attend church and whose wife and children are Jewish, explained the move as a desire to share his beliefs with audiences willing to listen….

He acknowledged that he was raised in the ”Northeast” tradition of not discussing religious beliefs in public, and said he held back in New Hampshire, where that is the practice. But in other areas, such as the South, he said, he would discuss his beliefs more openly.

The “Northeast” tradition? I’d say it’s more the reform or liberal tradition. There are those who evangelize and those who don’t. I don’t. So I don’t talk about religion easily; I’ve done so here when it has been relevant to another discussion. So I respect Dean’s reluctance to talk God.

But saying that he’s going to talk Jesus just because he’s going into the South smacks of religious pandering. It’s likely to insult Southerners — and fundamentalists — that he’s willing to acknowledge religion only because he’s trying to get votes south of the Mason-Dixon line.

This may be the religious equivalent of his Confederate-flag-on-the-back-of-pickups remark.

He may as well have said he wants to appeal to the voters who have have fish stickers on the back of their Chevys.

50 responses to “Dean finds religion”

  1. JLawson Avatar

    If he’s reinventing himself this early in the campaign, I’m thinking that he knows he’s got to appeal to a wider audience to have a chance against GWB. But how will this set with the ‘get any mention of religion out of the government’ supporters in the left?
    Besides – it looks like a battlefield conversion to me, or a trial balloon. I’m doubtful it’ll last past New Year’s.
    J.

  2. Lola Avatar

    It’s going to come out so fake one can see right through it.

  3. Catherine Avatar

    This pandering makes me sick considering his previous statements:
    http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?pt=u4BDXy1QP9wDtyBarRdMvg==
    As Dean put it at a candidate forum in November, “We go to temple once in a while, and, last time I went, we got a lecture about Jews that only go to temple on high holy days, just like I used to get a lecture at the Congregational church about Christians that only go to church on Christmas and Easter.”
    DEAN REMINDS ME OF SO MANY LIBERALS WHO, FOR EXAMPLE, EMBRACE BUDDHISM, AND ARE THEN,JUST AS HAPPENED AT A BUDDHIST SERVICE I ATTENDED 4 YEARS AGO, WERE INCREDIBLY DISAPPOINTED TO FIND THE BUDDHIST CEREMONY “SO RELIGIOUS.” I SAID YES, ACTUALLY, IT’S A PRETTY STRICT RELIGION. It IS A RELIGION. THEY WERE SHOCKED IT WAS SO UNCOOL AND *GASP* RELIGIOUS.
    BACK TO DEAN’S OWN WORDS:
    Then, the hard part began: getting the land for the bike trail–a fight that ultimately wound its way to the U.S. Supreme Court. Part of the struggle involved convincing the local Episcopal diocese to cede ownership of a stretch of old railroad tracks that ran across their property. When the church first resisted, threatening to join a lawsuit, “Howard went to talk to them into it,” says Sharp. Thanks to Dean’s persistence, the Episcopalians eventually succumbed. But their initial resistance left a bad taste in Dean’s mouth. As Dean has described it in recent months, the dispute over the bike path caused him to break with the Episcopal Church and become a Congregationalist.

  4. Jeff Avatar

    Religiousity–like a sincere faith–is not something one can put on and take off, if it is heartfelt. I think this is another disastrous PR move by the Dean folks, by making the media focus like a laser on their candidate’s religious beliefs. If voters want a man who has been strongly shaped by their faith, even a suped-up Reverend Dean can’t hold a candle to Lieberman, Clark, or Gephardt, and certainly not President Bush.

  5. Charlie Avatar

    It’s just hard to imagine that anyone will see this sudden profession of Christianity — which, as phrased, sounds just as pious as George Bush ever does — as anything but bald-faced hypocritical pandering.
    But sadly, not impossible to imagine, given the pass he’s gotten on other amazing flipflops.

  6. P Avatar

    A testament to Dean’s true feelings is the way he uses Jesus: “”He fought against self-righteousness of people who had everything ” is clearly a swipe at Bush. Bush, a devout Christian, doesn’t try use Christ as justfication for his policies as far as I can tell. Instead, he uses him as a moral guide and for strength. Dean on the otherhand has adopted what sounds to me like the typical Lefty banter of “What would Jesus drive?” In other words, with this statement, he is basically saying, “Who would Jesus vote for?” Its typical of someone who is, like Machiavelli, trying to use religion to win support, not truly believing. It is kind of insulting, but on the other hand, I think people will pick up on this.

  7. p Avatar

    Oh, and the fact he has decided to come out with this on Christmas is somewaht dubious as well.

  8. TC lynch Avatar

    OKay, I’m just a schmuck on Staten Island, but I’m still waiting to hear what the “Northeast” crap means coming outta a Park Avenue boy. Does it include the Hamptons? The Cape? The maid’s chamber? Explain that one for me, ski-boy.

  9. Ali Karim Bey Avatar
    Ali Karim Bey

    Prof.,
    Dean is going to go where he gets votes. He “became” the ANGRY WHITE MAN after his internal polls showed the has to be a maverick (different than Kerry, Gephardt, etc.). See Kausfiles.com for his first such analysis on this subject months ago.
    Now, Dean realized that he has to find religion. The New Rep. had a story on it. Now, he has found religion.
    He was like “losing my religion” and now “finding my religion”
    A hypocrite by any other name is just a hypocrite.
    The irony is that this hypocrite may win, if Gephardt does not find his way to beat him in IA.
    Ali Karim Bey

  10. Rancid Roadkill Avatar
    Rancid Roadkill

    Dean is such an empty vessel that he has no problem presenting himself as whatever sells in a region. Precisely BECAUSE he has no core beliefs, he can be whatever he wants to be. In liberal New England he can be for gay rights, in the conservative South he can tack 180 degrees and be a fundamentalist Christian and nobody notices the completely contradictory statements as yet more evidence that this guy defines shallow.

  11. MattS Avatar

    There’s a lot of hostility here against Dean. I suppose I understand that, but why would you assume that George Bush’s religiosity is sincere?

  12. Otter Avatar

    “but why would you assume that George Bush’s religiosity is sincere?”
    I was initially completely skeptical but — people are extremely shrewd about recognizing “one of us”. Fundamentalist Southern Christians obviously accept Bush completely as one of theirs, just like Lieberman is indisputably one of “us” to me, and it’s extremely difficult to fool people about that sort of thing.
    If Dean’s new vocabulary gets the same reception, I’ll draw the same conclusion about him.

  13. Kalroy Avatar

    Northeastern tradition? As I recall New England Congregationalists were not and are not quiet about their religion. It was Congregational missionaries who converted the Kingdom of Hawai’i, making the majority of Hawaiians protestant (congregationalists). My own grandfather was a Congregationalist missionary to the Marshall Islands, and I have cousins who are missionaries in Kazhakstan.
    It’s understandable that Dean misrepresents “his” tradition since it is doubtful he actually knows much about it. Dean left his old denomination over a difference of opinion concerning a bicycle path and became a Congregationalist. Perhaps it was his old church (I think it was Episcopalean) that had a tradition of being quiet about their religion.
    Then again, he could simply be lying by omission, or being deceptive as he was about his brother’s “military” service.
    Kal

  14. MattS Avatar

    Bush is no more sincere about religion than Dean. He sees it as a vehicle for social control, or for legitimizing the actions he undertakes, as in God picked him to be President. Now, that may be what Southern fundamentalists think (I don’t know), but typically, religiosity seems to be about a moral code and a constant attempt to hew to that code. It is not about a divine justification of whatever you choose to do.
    Dean doesn’t think organized religion is important, that’s clear. Bush only thinks that fundamentalist organized religion is important, and only because his religiosity is a pretext for uncontrolled and unreflective action.
    Again, much like Dean, Bush isn’t sincere about religion as a moral force. Bush is only sincere about religion as a force for social control and for legitimizing whatever choices he wants to make.

  15. MattS Avatar

    Lieberman as ‘one of us’? Um, I don’t think so. Lieberman seems to be a self-righteous guy who uses religion as a political tool. He only appeals to certain Jewish sub-cultures, those who feel bad they don’t go to temple and so ardent support of Israel is their proxy. His condemnations of Hollywood ring hollow, as he often doesn’t know anything about the stuff he condemns before claiming it’s immoral. It’s pure politics, all of it.

  16. p Avatar

    I don’t want to get into talking about Bush, but what I can tell you is he has never said he only talks about God in the South or hides his beliefs in certain crowds and then wears them with pride in others. Second, by all accounts he was “reborn” in the mid-80s, well before he had any intentions of running and it was heartfelt. I mean, I suppose, it could be a huge facade, cracked in the moment of clarity he had in his late-30s when he quit drinking that he wanted to be President and had to become a more devout Christian to achieve it, but as far as I can tell he was a lot more shrewd about it than Dean and didn’t share it with the world. I mean, Dean’s statement is intended to tell his atheist base – don’t worry guys, I am just doing this for those dumb Southerners so I play better. I won’t and don’t talk about God in the Northeast, where we are above that sort of things.

  17. oblomov Avatar

    I thought that the South was supposed to STOP basing their votes on “God, Guns, and Gays”, according to Dean.

  18. Matts Avatar

    p,
    I’m not sure we disagree on anything. I just think you assume the best about Bush and the worst about Dean, and I just question those assumptions as unsubstantiated.

  19. Lola Avatar

    I think Bush really is sincere about his faith. I know people who are sincere about their fath, but they don’t exploit it. I’m not surprised at how George Stephanopoulous’ reacted as he did. He’s Greek Orthodox (and his father is a priest and his sister is a nun, so he should be “in the know” when it comes to church matters), and there are many people who’ve been converting to the Orthodox Christian religion for reasons a lot more serious than bike paths.
    I know had Dean tried to convert to Orthodoxy, he would have been in for a lot of questioning by the priest to make sure he was serious about it and doing it for the right reasons.

  20. Menlo Bob Avatar

    Despite the signs pointing in that direction it really is difficult to know what is in someone’s heart. Seems to me, as a beliver and Bush supporter (those are not synonymous), that Dean espousing positives that come by way of faith creates more problems for that portion of his supporters who would like to abolish any expression of faith from public display. Dean deserves the benefit of doubt rather than doubting the benefit.

  21. BradDad Avatar

    Matts, your read of G.W. Bush is preposterous.
    As for Howard Dean – there’s nothing in the discussion to date which suggests he recognizes the divinity of Christ … seems to be the wishy washy “real good role model” type of admiration for Jesus.
    That’s fine if that’s as far as you want to go, but it disqualifies you from calling yourself “Christian”.
    I can’t judge Dean’s sincerity – though the anger which dominates his being makes any profession of faith hard to believe.

  22. g wiz Avatar

    I was reading BlogforAmerica last night when this story first broke on Drudge. Quite a few of his supporters on his blog were less than thrilled about the fact that Dean was going to ‘get religious’. Not because of the transparent phoneyness of it all, but because they think he should run a stricly secular campaign. Should be interesting. Dean could actually end up pissing off both real Christians and his own supporters.

  23. Otter Avatar

    Matt, whether you approve of the form someone’s religious views take has nothing to do with their sincerity. (And even less to do with their connection to a religious culture.) I don’t like Lieberman, as it happens, but I recognize him as someone with a real connection to Judaism and Jewish religious life, just as Southern Baptists recognize Bush and balcks recognize Al Sharpton.
    My expectation is that the new religious Howard Dean is going to have as much credibility as Bill, Hillary and Chelsea Clinton frantically reading the Bible for inspiration. But, we’ll find out.

  24. David Sucher Avatar

    To anyone who is quite sure that Lieberman is sincere in his so public display of religion, I have a marvelous bridge available this week.

  25. SER Avatar

    I dreamed – I swear I did – the following Jay Leno routine:
    “Howard Dean is still trailing George Bush in national polls… except for Vermont, where he has a hefty lead. Al Gore called to congratulate Dean because, he said, the home state is always the toughest!”

  26. lk Avatar

    Gee, a politician who talks differently depending on the part of the country he is in. There is absolutely nothing new about this. You act like you discovered fire. Both sides have done it for like forever. But this was Dean, now I see the valid criticism.

  27. Catherine Avatar

    David Sucher, by the proclamations of his blog, seems delusional.
    Joe Lieberman has not tried to be anyone, but who he is. It is not likely an orthodox Jew is going to be elected President, but that is what he is running as. Seems pretty honest for someone who is more of a minority than Al Sharpton. You want to think he’s a phony? Go right ahead.
    If the media wants a story, there is one here. The guy who discards religion when convenient, then cloaks himself in it when needed. Dean is no Clinton. Clinton was a master at deception. Dean’s mouth is too big. The only way he can not fail is if the media decides to ignore all of his flip flops on….everything he stands for.

  28. MattS Avatar

    Again, these are assumptions about faith. Based on the reams of cursing from Bush and the cackling about executing people, I find it hard to believe that ‘in his heart’ he’s religious in any but a weirdly extremist way. That said, what do I know about his ‘heart’? Similarly, I don’t – and you don’t – know anything about what’s in Lieberman’s heart or Dean’s heart.
    I assume they are all pandering.

  29. hugh macleod Avatar

    I agree with you, g-whizz. He should’ve left religion out of it.
    Dean’s a one-trick pony i.e. he’s good at articulating and galvinizing the “anger” of the Democrat-Left.
    It’s one of those tricks that sounds far more plausible in the media and the college campuses than in the brutal world of global realpolitik.

  30. Andrea Harris Avatar

    Well, you’ve sure been acting like you’ve got a direct psychic line into Bush’s headspace, MattS. But anyway, regardless of what other politicians are and are not “sincere” about, Dean’s announcement strikes me as almost charming in its blatant cynicism. Next week, the Dean campaign announces his conversion to Islam, to get that coveted Muslim vote!

  31. newscaper Avatar

    As a non-redneck southerner who is NOT one to wrap himself in the confederate flag, I always find the discussions about how best to secure the southern vote as somehwat offensive.
    We are not so stupid as to blindly fall for some shmuck just becasue he is from the South (whether Arkansas or SOuth Carolina — or Tennessee).
    Nor jump on the bandwagon of others who decide to start shouting “Praise the Lord” when convenient.

  32. Jeremy Avatar

    Hmmm. I’m not sure there is anything un-Christian about cursing occasionally (especially when it comes to making fun of Europeans and NY Times reporters). And even execution is only really un-Christian if you’re Catholic, and that’s a recent position. Admittedly, mocking those about to be executed is a bit tactless, but it’s actually fairly common in action movies.

  33. Charlie Avatar

    My guess is that Matt S doesn’t know many good ol’ boy Christians. Matt, believe it or not, there are lots of people who feel very devoted to Christianity who swear (“But Mother Superior, they don’t call it a spade! They call it an f—ing shovel!”) and lots who feel the death penalty is justified.
    Bush somehow got sober, and and he seems pretty clearly to take his religious beliefs — including the experience of having been “born again” — pretty seriously. Those are pretty consistent with one another.
    Your assertion that he doesn’t take his beliefs seriously seems to require one of two things: psychic knowledge of his state of mind, or the sort of intellectual bigotry that comes down to “He doesn’t agree with me so he must be a hypocrit.”

  34. Steel Magnolia Avatar
    Steel Magnolia

    The only thing that’s traditionally northeastern about Dean is his cartoon vision of the south. Not to mention condescension — he’s still talking ABOUT the south as though we haven’t noticed that he’s campaigning yet. Somebody needs to tell him we’ve got newspapers and (gasp!) broadband down here. Shoot, Billy Joe’s a Unitarian & Daisy Mae’s an atheist.

  35. Bart Avatar

    In switching denominations over a bike path, Dean demonstrates nothing more than petulance. Had he left the Episcopal church over its decision to consecrate as bishop a man who abandoned wife and family to live in another sexual relationship outside of marriage … it might have more credibility.
    I suspect he has finally figured out that Gephardt has a rather good organization on the ground in South Carolina. Back-to-back Gephardt wins in Iowa and SC would hurt Dean’s campaign substantially.
    Dean’s sudden adoption of ‘religion’ seems to be a flag of convenience, nothing more. Sincere, committed evangelicals will likely find nothing in his /political/ positions that is consistent with a biblical view of life. The others won’t care.
    It just makes the man look silly. Again.

  36. lk Avatar

    “Well, you’ve sure been acting like you’ve got a direct psychic line into Bush’s headspace”.
    Actually everybody acts like they have direct lines into all pols headspaces. Congrats, and I thought that was something of science fiction. Let’s not forget there are policy issues associated with the candidates. Nah, it’s easier to pretend we know what they are thinking, and talk about that. And don’t forget to discuss their voice nuances, and clothes selection. Let’s get really deep here.

  37. Catherine Avatar

    (different Catherine from Catherine above)
    Bush is sincere in his religion; he attributes his turn-around at age 40 (or thereabouts) to his faith. He’s a Methodist, and part of the small-group Christian movement. I’ve forgotten the name of this movement, but I think it’s essentially a mode of small-group religious peer counseling.
    You can read a very nice op-ed by Bill Keller about Bush’s religiosity at: http://www.lebanonwire.com/0305/03051701NYT.asp “God and George W. Bush” As well there is a new book out called The Faith of George W. Bush (haven’t looked at this).
    Tony Blair is also devout, as is Hillary Clinton. Stephanopoulous (sp?) has a nice story about first meeting Bill & Hillary and being invited into their bedroom (Bill’s doing) where Hillary’s bedside reading table was filled with Christian self-help books. I believe Hillary likes the writer Henri Nouwen. Haven’t read any of these people myself.
    Merry Christmas!

  38. Andy Freeman Avatar
    Andy Freeman

    > My question comes down to whether Is Bush the man to carry out the Bush doctrine?
    “People like the war on terror even though I’ve told them that it’s wrong, so I’ll tell them that I’m the right man to wage it.”
    It must really grate. On an absolute scale, Bush isn’t all that good, and yet he’s miles ahead of the plausible Dems.

  39. David Sucher Avatar

    Doesn’t grate in the least. If you are happy with Bush’ competence I wish you well.

  40. Andy Freeman Avatar
    Andy Freeman

    > If you are happy with Bush’ competence I wish you well.
    And if I’m not, what do you wish me?
    In answer to Sucher’s question, Lieberman may be better suited to carry out the Bush plan. Dean isn’t.
    Doesn’t it bother Sucher to support someone (Dean) who doesn’t even measure up to Bush?

  41. Lurking Observer Avatar
    Lurking Observer

    Why does Dean remind me more and more of that guy in “Network,” the one who was “Mad as Hell and not gonna take it anymore”?
    IIRC, he didn’t have much more of a message than that, yet, he took America by storm.
    Or am I mixing reality and fiction a little too much?

  42. ratso ferrari Avatar
    ratso ferrari

    Lieberman? isn”t that the guy who changed almost every belief he had when he ran for vice-president with Al Gore? AS for Dean, maybe he can borrow that huge bible that Clinton paraded into church during the Monica episode.

  43. David Sucher Avatar

    Nope, doesn’t bother Sucher at all, especially as he isn’t especially supporting Dean.
    What he is supporting is rational discussion and is constantly bemused at the way in which some people react to Dean so far out of proportion to what he actually says and has done.

  44. Andy Freeman Avatar
    Andy Freeman

    > Nope, doesn’t bother Sucher at all, especially as he isn’t especially supporting Dean.
    Sucher’s blog has been hacked (or we’ve got an imposter).
    >>Dean, Under Attack, Revives Feisty Style
    > I like.
    > Then I wonder whether Dean’s trump card might be that Bush lacks the gravitas for the job and is not the best President to further his own Bush doctrine
    > Dean is a pugnacious fellow and far tougher.
    (The sole evidence offered being that Dean is more willing to attack Bush than his fellow Dems and that certain repubs are starting to work against him. The first isn’t evidence of the relevant toughness and the second isn’t evidence of toughness of any sort.)

  45. John "Akatsukami" Braue Avatar
    John “Akatsukami” Braue

    Mr. Sucher “is constantly bemused at the way in which some people react to Dean so far out of proportion to what he actually says and has done.”
    The difficulty is that if we are to react to the net content of his words and actions, admitting that he is breathing would be far out of proportion.
    In any case, Dean has begun his swerve to the center much too soon. Whilst he cannot be elected President without right-Democrats and uncommitted moderates, he cannot be nominated without the young tranzies who think that Bush is the Antichrist…or, as is more likely in their case, the Antigaia. Without their frenized drum-beating at least through the end of February, he is likely to falter badly in the primaries.

  46. David Sucher Avatar

    You are starting to persuade me that in fact Dean may be the next President. :)

  47. Andrew | BYTE BACK Avatar

    Ya guys ain’t got nothing new. Read back over the comments and substitute the word Gore. It all sounds so tired. Still, if these empty words worked the first time, I guess keep on doing it.
    empty vessel. … doesn’t kow wh he is . … the man of flipflops.
    Tired.

  48. Andrew | BYTE BACK Avatar

    being deceptive … reinventing himself.
    tick.tick.tick.
    know. who.

  49. Jack Tanner Avatar
    Jack Tanner

    Dean’s announcing that he’ll be making a ‘Hee Haw’ appearance to lock up the hillbilly vote.