Then what will make America safer, Mr. Dean?

Then what will make America safer, Mr. Dean?
: The illogic of Howard Dean’s reaction to the capture of Saddam Hussein is only now fully sinking in. He said:

“The capture of Saddam is a good thing which I hope will help keep our soldiers safer. But the capture of Saddam has not made America safer.”

Hmmm. That’s not the best response to Joe Lieberman‘s statement:

If Howard Dean had his way, Saddam Hussein would still be in power today, not in prison, and the world would be a more dangerous place.

It is almost as if Dean is agreeing with Lieberman’s accusation, saying that he thinks Saddam should, indeed, still be in power and not under arrest. Now I’m sure that’s not what he thinks; I hope to God that’s not what he thinks. But by this illogic, he’s essentially saying that there was no self-interest in deposing and arresting Saddam and it makes no dofference to us whether he is in captivity.

That is on its face absurd.

That ignores the true liberal issue: The welfare and future of the Iraqi people.

That also ignores the issue of the fate of Iraq as a stable democracy — and not as a breeding ground for terrorists who would, indeed, come attack America… or Israel… or Europe….

If Iraq stays destabilized because people were hedging their bets on the eventual success of Saddam vs. America, that is clearly more dangerous for Iraq and for us and for the world.

It’s a good thing that Saddam has been captured. Dean should have said that and left it at that.

A wise president knows when to find the nearest period.

35 responses to “Then what will make America safer, Mr. Dean?”

  1. j Swift Avatar

    You state, in so many words, what is now the pro-war cliche’. Dean states ,in so many words, the anti-war diatribe (at least regarding the war in Iraq).
    “There is no proof that SH was ever a imminent threat to the U.S. and therefore America is not safer.”
    U.S. military personnel are provided that the Baathists are disheartened and that a majority of the attacks on our troops were carried out by the same.

  2. Jim Treacher Avatar

    “A wise president knows when to find the nearest period.”
    Hence the Lewinsky scandal. HEY-OHHH!!

  3. PNAC Avatar

    Hence the Lewinsky scandal
    EWWWWWW

  4. Bones Avatar

    The capture of Saddam wasn’t worth what we spent for it.
    The lives of 400 US servicemen. The limbs/sight of another 1000, At least $200 billion dollars.
    And all of these costs are going to continue to increase.
    And for what? Iraq is free of Saddam, but it’s not FREE. It’s occupied, and when the occupation is finally over. It will most likely be under the thumb of either a new strongman or a theocracy.
    A wise president knows when the cost of a thing exceeds it’s value.

  5. R. C. Dean Avatar
    R. C. Dean

    Saddam’s capture handed Howard Dean a golden opportunity, via the all purpose excuse of changed circumstances, to moderate his anti-war rhetoric, show some political maturity, and begin to play the statesman. The speech writes itself (“brave American servicemen . . . new beginning for Iraq and the mideast . . . put old divisions behind us, focus on the future . . . Saddam in jail opens a new chapter . . . Bush is not the man to handle the challenges of building a just society . . .”)
    He botched it, by making the incredible statement that capturing a man who has been at war with the US for 12 years doesn’t make us any safer.

  6. JorgXMcKie Avatar
    JorgXMcKie

    Of course, once your mind is made up, facts are unlikely to change it. See above. I find it interesting that the Fortress America types that I knew as a kid are now on the Left.
    Dean’s problem in these speeches appears to be an inability to refrain from explaining his own answers, just so all us dummies get it. He’w waaaaaaaay smarter than voters or George W Bush. Thus, he can’t just make a plain statement, because all us dummies would misconstrue it. Too bad.
    As for cost and value — I’m a cynic myself, but I find Oscar Wilde appropriate here. “A cynic is one who knows the cost of everything and the value of nothing.” I would suggest that Bones doesn’t understand the value of a Free Iraq (even if it doesn’t happen tomorrow and if it turns out not to be perfect.)

  7. Jeremy Avatar

    The more I read from Dean supporters, I’m becoming more convinced that he (and them) are basically the equivalent of Pat Buccannan.
    The Republican party was more or less at it’s nadir when Pat Buccannan was influential in it, once they ditched him, and went for a more moderate view, they really hit their stride.
    Part of the reason Clinton did well was that he was also more or less moderate. If Gore had followed his path, instead of becoming a Nader-ish robot, he probably would have won (or rather, he would have
    Anyway, whether or not it was in the US’s own interest to get rid of Saddam mostly depends on what you think about Saddam’s ties to terrorism, and if terrorism is really “terrorism”. Personally, I think Saddam deserved to go simply because he was sheltering someone indicted for the first WTC bombing.
    In either case, it’s simply the right thing to do. If you can get rid of a murderous tyrant, you should do so. Yes, the world is full of them, but Saddam was pretty much standing by himself in the amount of blood on his hands. While not measuring in the 10s of millions, like a Hitler or a Stalin, he probably hit the million mark.
    The really sad part is, if the world (ie, UN) had presented a united front, Saddam might have decided to step down, avoiding this whole mess.

  8. Jeremy Avatar

    Ooops. Make that “or rather, he would have have won by a sizable margin”

  9. Steve in Houston Avatar
    Steve in Houston

    Interesting you should mention Buchanan, Jeremy. He was on MSNBC after Dean’s foreign policy speech today, and expressed a lot of admiration for the Gov’s ideas and style.
    With friends like that…

  10. billg Avatar

    Dean’s comments are both wrong and wrong-headed. How can someone who wants us to make him president not believe that the existence of dictatorships anywhere threatens democracies everywhere? We don’t need to wait for the bombs to start dropping before protecting ourselves.
    If Dean wants to shake things up, why doesn’t he ask the international “community” and the UN why they aren’t interested in eliminating regimes like Saddam’s? After all, Americans started the UN because we were tired of sending our troops to another continent to fix a problem started by some other culture. Sixty years later, we have to do the same thing because the UN lacks the will to take a stand.

  11. O'McSomething Avatar
    O’McSomething

    Hmm? What will make America safer? IMHO–How about more of our tax money (strike that) our children’s and grandchildren’s tax money(let’s not forget the deficit in all the excitement) going toward the search for Osama and his pals. How about a president who realizes that perhaps the best way to go after worldwide, stateless terrorist organizations is not by trashing our reputation with our long-time foreign allies or invading countries on trumped-up intellegence. Whether we are safer because of the invasion of Iraq remains to be seen.

  12. Anonymous Avatar

    JorgX writes:
    “As for cost and value — I’m a cynic myself, but I find Oscar Wilde appropriate here. “A cynic is one who knows the cost of everything and the value of nothing.” I would suggest that Bones doesn’t understand the value of a Free Iraq (even if it doesn’t happen tomorrow and if it turns out not to be perfect.)”
    JorgX you assume that you can value a free Iraq? You would have to be able to see into the future to truly value a free Iraq. That is not going to happen so Iraq is, roughly, a 200 Billion dollar Foreign Policy gamble or more deficit spending if things turn out well.
    And for things to out well, it will take social engineering not just nation building.

  13. Will Allen Avatar
    Will Allen

    McSomething nicely illustrates the nearly complete misapprehension of the situation by Dean and others. If Bin Laden is still alive, which is far fron certain, it doesn’t matter nearly as much that he is captured as much as it matters that the political order of the despotic Middle East is turned upside down, for it is the oil wealth of the despotic middle east that is the greatest threat to the U.S. The oil rich despots of the region see it in their interest to direct large resources to murderous, suicidal, fanatics. Murderous, suicidal, fanatics, if given enough time and resources, will accomplish some of their tactical goals, which, in this instance, means deploying weapons of mass destruction against the U.S..
    The technology of mass murder is about to become ubiquitous, a 100% effective defense can never be constructed, so the only answer is to seperate the murderous, suicidal fanatics from their resources, which means the despots must go. True, if the people of the region, when given the opportunity to control their mineral wealth, choose war, then it is war we will have anyways. Leaving the despots in place, however, guarantees global slaughter. One despot is gone, and although success is far from guaranteed, we are closer today than we were 10 months ago to having the despots’ control of the region’s oil wealth end.

  14. Cedar Pundit Avatar

    Dean is caught with his pants down.
    His cult of kooks don’t care, but this scares the Reagan Democrats. So does talk of a non-aggression pact with North Korea which Dean endorses and Jimmy Carter favors.
    Dean is starting to look like Dukakis in that tank.
    Why is Dean considered the front-runner? Because he pulls in a lot of money or because he is polling well in New Hampshire?
    Why do you think Dean is pouring $400,000 in TV ads into Iowa? Because they fear that Dick Gephardt, who is very well-organized in Iowa, will win and steal his thunder.
    All Dean will be left with is winning next-door neighbor New Hampshire, which means jack-nothing. Gary Hart got high 30’s there in 1984. Mondale still pulled it out.
    And Dean is DOA in the south.
    I predict no clear-cut winner and a huge fight at the convention.

  15. DennisThePeasant Avatar
    DennisThePeasant

    What an impression to make the day after the capture of Saddam-
    Head down, mumbling that it was a “good thing”, and showing the kind of joy and relief we except from the Democratic Underground crowd any time good news rears its’ ugly head.
    Anyone other than me see an RNC TV ad in that special Dean moment?
    The man is truly verging on creepy.

  16. Travis McGee Avatar
    Travis McGee

    Prof.,
    I agree with your analysis but the Liberal-Hypocrites are too powerful.
    According to them, Dean can do no wrong. GOP is wrong even before they do anything. The Liberal-Hypocrites (or Dean-O-Whores) are increasing. I went to a Starbucks there were too many DOWs. I went to the mall to get shirt, and the saleman was wearing DOWs. He even asked me to join a DOW meet-up.
    I think this means that Saddam or Bin Ladin, it will not matter. In the end, all college students are empty headed (deaf,dumb,blind – like three monkeys) cheerleaders or DOWs.
    Trav

  17. Travis McGee Avatar
    Travis McGee

    Prof.,
    I am listening to Diane Rehm show and the ultimate Dean-O-Whore is on.
    You know who? Fawas Gerges (see http://pages.slc.edu/%7Efgerges/). This guy says the Admin. is not wanted by Iraqis. Admin is wrong ON EVERYTHING THEY ARE DOING in Iraq.
    Can someone help this DOW?
    Trav

  18. JorgXMcKie Avatar
    JorgXMcKie

    Actually, I value $200B (much of which would have to be spent in the US if not in Iraq) as a quite reasonable price for the dereased chance of a nutbar in Iraq killing hundreds of thousands of Iraqis and attempting to kill that many Americans, if he had the opportunity.
    As one who voluntarily joined the armed services in the ’60’s (didn’t put my ass on the line any more than I had to, but it was out there) I would have appreciated a bit more effort in S. Vietnam, given the death, etc that followed there. My guess is that Bones or whoever responded is making his estimate from a comfy chair.
    I don’t have to be able to see the future to estimate an approximation. Say that Saddam and his crazy cut their killing in half (although it seems obvious to me that it would just have gotten worse under the boys), I would still say $200B is a good deal.
    Maybe non-Americans just don’t have much value for some? Sort of like those types who claim “You can’t put a value on a human life, just before suing some poor schlub for $100M in a wrongful death suit.” I have no real troubles sorting out my values and putting the up against my costs.

  19. Joe Peden Avatar

    Bones:”A wise president knows when the cost of a thing exceeds it’s value.” I get it. If we just pay the 200 billion to the terrorists, while chanting “Bush Lied” enough to insure success, the terrorists will disappear. This tidies it up quite nicely.

  20. Dan Z. Avatar

    I’m glad the Iraqis will finally have a chance to confront the man they let control their country and kill so many people for so long.

  21. SharpShooter Avatar

    Dan Z, I’m with you. Dean mumbling his numble-tunkies into his armpit clearly shames himself with non-congruent (insincere) words. Which he promptly disavows, anyway…
    So HUZZAH! for the 4th Infantry Division and those brave men who caught this incoherent loser… Saddam DOES appear to be a valid symbol of IslamoFascism, namely, a tired, disoriented old man who, when pushed, cannot shove NOTHING!
    (ungrammatical application intended!)

  22. Pele Avatar

    You don’t quite get it yet. Saddam is going to mention Syria or Iran as places where he’s hid his weapons and the war against terrorism(or the crushing of Islam) will roll onto the next phase.

  23. Dann Avatar

    Pele-
    Exactly.
    Our purpose in invading Iraq was more than the removal of SH or acquiring actual proof of destruction of his WMDs. It was about transforming the politics of the Middle East.
    Now that we have demonstrated the ability and resolve necessary to invade a nation, our diplomatic efforts will be more effective.
    My initial response to 911 was to suggest that we land the entire Marine Corp in Lebanon, liberate that nation from the Syrians, and then march to Afghanistan either destroying or liberating as required. Mr. Bush apparently has more savvy than I.
    When the leadership of the Middle East comes around to the position of rejecting terrorism, then we will have accomplished our mission.
    And, yes, another invasion may be necessary to convince some people that we are serious.
    -Regards

  24. Dan H Avatar

    Behold the Shiteater’s Rollcall.
    All this crap about Saddam being tried by “his people.” Sorry to ruin your funfest but Saddam is more closely associated with the secular major powers that supported him than with the religious fundamentalists who will be vying for control of the beginnings of the Iraqi government.
    He will be tried as an agent of these foreign powers, not as one of their own.
    DH – When Clinton Lied, Nobody Died.

  25. gooey Avatar

    Hey Bones! Can we all look into the crystal ball you have? You seem so cock sure of what the future may bring. With SH gone Iraq and the middle east have a CHANCE at fundamental change and a better future for them and the rest of the world. That is why it was worth it. But because the president currently has an (R) next to his name you could never see the up side.

  26. Jack Tanner Avatar
    Jack Tanner

    ‘All this crap about Saddam being tried by “his people.” Sorry to ruin your funfest but Saddam is more closely associated with the secular major powers that supported him than with the religious fundamentalists who will be vying for control of the beginnings of the Iraqi government.’
    BFD – Survivors of those Iraqis in the death pits are the ones who will try him and he’ll only get a tiny fraction of what he deserves.

  27. Anonymous Avatar

    DH – When Clinton Lied, Nobody Died.
    Surely your tiny little brain can come up with something a little bit more……germane?

  28. DennisThePeasant Avatar
    DennisThePeasant

    Dan H-
    Thanks for the Democratic Underground update. What’s going on at Indymedia?
    Try this one;
    “If it’s coming from Dean, it’s right from the spleen.”
    More and bigger words, but I’ve got confidence in you.

  29. Sandy P. Avatar

    Someone’s quibbling about $200 billion? I can find it for you right away, via 12/8 Econopundit:
    You must read the current Newsweek cover story, which sets the bill for questionable litigation at $200 billion per year.
    —
    See, problem solved.

  30. Sandy P. Avatar

    –stateless terrorist organizations is not by trashing our reputation with our long-time foreign allies or invading countries on trumped-up intellegence. —
    And what long-time allies would those be??
    Frogistan was never our ally, read John Adams’ bio. They haven’t changed.
    Every relationship (and government program) after 40, 50 years should be reassessed. People and circumstances change. What is the obsession w/the status quo? We’ve never been about status quo, we build and destroy and improve things. Status quo is so old Europe thinking.

  31. Sandy P. Avatar

    –DH – When Clinton Lied, Nobody Died.–
    Well, other than some camels and the janitor in the aspirin factory.

  32. DennisThePeasant Avatar
    DennisThePeasant

    Touche!
    Well done, Sandy P.!

  33. Andrew | BYTE BACK Avatar

    whiners, the lot of you. Jeez.
    You guys aren’t paying close enough attention to know jack about Dean.
    You would do better to look at the candidates. Dean said exactly the same thing as George Bush Junior, yet none of you can see it.

  34. DennisThePeasant Avatar
    DennisThePeasant

    Andrew-
    Paying attention? Hello?
    Yesterday Dean said he was still against the war. Last time I checked (a couple of weeks ago, I admit), Bush was still the guy that started the war. Maybe I missed something, but those could be interpreted as different positions by some of us simple folk. Maybe not Deanies…but those of us without a perpetual Starbucks buzz.
    Or are the Deanies and Lefty Loons now claiming Bush lied when he said he was for the war? I know Huffin’ Howard wants to move a bit to the center, but I’m not sure accusing Bush of being a peacenik is the way to do it.

  35. kenny Avatar

    Huray! Have you heard?
    With Saddam in US custody, the Dept. of Homeland Security just lowered the Terrorist Threat Level to GREEN!!!
    Oh wait….I mean they changed it to Orange…..Oh….thats worse than yellow.
    What the???
    So we are NOT more safe now?
    I bet Howard Dean is wishing he never said that America was safer now.
    Oh wait, he didn’t say that.