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Two edges to this sword

11 comments on Two edges to this sword

Two edges to this sword
: I’ve been delighted to make contact with Iranian bloggers lately, supporting the cause of Iranian democracy, meeting new people with new perspectives, making new connections; that’s all good.

But I should acknowledge when a post on one of those blogs is disturbing. Steppenwolf, an Iranian blogger, writes a post out of the movie The Pianist that makes me uncomfortable — and some of the comments regarding his post make me even more uncomfortable. There is the bad smell of anti-semitism about it (asking why the Jews can’t just get over the Holocaust and then asking whether they doth protest too much); in the comments, there is also a misplaced effort to equate the Holocaust with Palestinian displacement. I debated whether to link to the post here but I decided to because I have linked to Steppenwolf frequently regarding the struggle in Iran. The context matters — both about the person and about the cultural, racial, religious struggles in that part of the world.

Steppenwolf: The Holocaust is not something you just get over. The murder of six million people just because of who they are is not something you get over. The struggle of the Palestinian people is, of course, a terrible burden. But it is not Iran’s burden. And it is not a matter of genocide. And if you can’t understand that, you can’t understand Israel’s motives of cultural self-preservation and you can’t understand what is necessary to bring peace to your region. Blowing that off with a flippant remark only reduces your own credibility and stature.

: And while I’m at it, since I linked to many Iranian webloggers, I got some email a few weeks back telling me about a new one calling himself Plate. I didn’t like the weblog then and now I really don’t like it. Won’t waste the bits saying why; won’t link to him, either. He’s not on my list of good Iranian webloggers.

11 responses to “Two edges to this sword”

  1. Diana Avatar
    Diana

    I saw Steppenwolf’s remark and was disgusted.
    He wrote that “The Pianist” reminded him of a Persian saying that if you insist something is true, you are probably lying, as if there is an analogy between protesting too much and making more than one film about the Holocaust. The implication is that somehow the Jews are lying about the Holocaust.
    He must have known that “The Pianist” was about the Holocaust–then why see it if you think that the subject has been overdone?
    However, what Steppenwolf said was annoying but far from anti-Semiitics. His post shouldn’t be confused with what his commenters said. There, the conversation went over the line and was completely anti-Semitic. The issue of Israel was of course dragged in. If I had responded I would have been accused of equating anti-Zionism with anti-Semitism (which I do not), so I stayed out.
    All in all, very disappointing.

  2. Eric Deamer Avatar
    Eric Deamer

    I might be wrong here, but from what I’ve read I think that even the most “liberal” Iranians are pretty anti-Semitic, and certainly virulently and utterly anti-Zionist. I remember I read an interview with Ariel Sharon once where he said that even Iranian “moderates” don’t recognize Israel’s right to exist. Its worth remembering this.
    This also reminds me of a disturbing report about a German audience laughing at the part in the Piano where the soldiers make the old Jews dance by shooting at their feet. Hope it wasn’t true, but I saw it on Instapundit, and then some links to those debating the veracity of the story.

  3. KMK Avatar
    KMK

    I believe you are advocating censorship, by means of social coercion. You’ve been asking Iranian bloggers to write and post their opinions. Yet, you didn’t want to hear that one. Immediate disappointment. Anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism. Even after he apologized. Yes, 6 million Jews were killed. An atrocity, absolutely. No argument there. Hitler was an evil man with a sick vision but, it took another 44 million lives to ensure that the remaining 18 million Jews, and let’s not forget most of Europe, were not systematically wiped out. The struggle of the Palestinian people is not just a terrible burden. It is to a sickness that has sucked rational thinking and life out of the Middle East long enough. We must collectively stop the finger pointing and rehashing of the past and move toward a peaceful future. A future full of cultural preservation, concession and solution for all respective cultures. Otherwise, it will remain a double edged sword.

  4. button Avatar
    button

    KMK, there are really two issues here. First, there is the problem of “spiral thinking.” When we are discussing a diverse spectrum of topics, for example, here on Jeff’s weblog. If, no matter what topic we are discussing, someone relates all the topics to germs, they have a problem.
    The second issue involves the normalization of the Levant. Unfortunately, the Muslim Brotherhood does not want normalization because they are obsessed with overthrowing the sheriff of Mecca. It is the Muslim Brotherhood Cult which is the main obstruction to the normalization of the “situation” in the Levant. It is sad that you do not seem to be aware of this. Perhaps, you are too young to know about this, or perhaps, you have not had free access to information.
    I wouldn’t know where to begin to educate you about this, but Joseph Farah recently published an excellent article about this subject on his World Net Daily in which he clearly explains it.

  5. jc Avatar
    jc

    By the same token, though, the holocaust is and was not Isreal’s burden. If you insist on one, the other must be true as well. Iran and the palestinians share a religion; isreal and the holocaust victims share a religion. The parallels are clear, only the scale of the atrocities differ. Plenty of palestinians are killed simply because they are palestinians. Talk to one of those insane zealots living in a settlement and refusing to move even if the isreali army comes to move them, they’ll be happy to tell you how they shoot their ‘enemies’ on sight and it’s their right under gods law to do so because he gave them the land and so on and so forth, never once blinking at the fact that their actions are every bit as appalling as those of Nazi germany, simply on a smaller scale. Yes, there’s one hell of a double standard there.

  6. KMK Avatar
    KMK

    Button –
    Your first issue is I’m a spiral thinker, incapable of discussing a diverse spectrum of topics without relating all the topics to germs. I must have a problem. The second issue involves the normalization of the Levant. You claim the Muslim Brotherhood Cult is the main obstruction to the normalization of the “situation” in the Levant. Your saddened because I am either unaware, too young or oppressed. But, you want to educate me. Joseph Farah was a speaker at The Interfaith Zionist Leadership Summit in Washington, DC, last May. The purpose of the conference was meant to combat what it saw as major flaws (or absurdity as he put it) in the Bush administration’s policy toward the Palestinians and the roadmap to peace in the Middle East. In the interest of clarity, Zionism should not be correlated with Judaism – one is a secular political movement and the other is a religion. Post a link to the article you referenced. I would like to read it.

  7. button Avatar
    button

    Dear KMK, happy to accommodate your request.
    But first, wish to clarify my remark about spiral thinking. There seems to be an epidemic of it currently in the Arab world which seems to be a result of brainwashing. No matter what subject one would be discussing, they always try to relate it to Israel and the Jews. I was hoping that this is not going on in Iran, but perhaps, to some extent, it is. I did not mean to target you personally. I was just trying to make a general statement. Herewith in the foregoing, I just got more specific about what I had in mind.
    Here is the link to the article by Joseph Farah:
    Temple Mount reopens to non-Muslim visitors
    http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=33355
    It was so good that I made note of it on my own blog.

  8. IranianWoman Avatar
    IranianWoman

    As I wrote on Steppenwolf

  9. KMK Avatar
    KMK

    I read the article you linked. For the purpose of this reply I will only deal with the subject of the Temple Mount, Al-Haram Al-Shaif, Temple of Solomon, respectively. Joseph Farah is a self proclamied Zionist so I’ll start there. Theodor Herzl, the founder of Zionism, said at the first Zionist conference in 1897: “If I ever control Jerusalem, I will definitely remove all the holy places except the Jewish ones.” If I stop here I will have made my point but since there is more history to support it I won’t. In 1948, during the first ‘Arab-Israeli War,’ Israeli aircraft dropped bombs on the Haram, hitting both mosques. Granted it was a war. In 1969 Denis Michael Rohan entered the building posing as a tourist. He doused the historic Nur al-Din Zinki Minbar in a flammable liquid and set fire to it. Palestinians were killed or wounded on April 11, 1982, when an Israeli soldier opened fire on worshippers. In May 1988, more Palestinians were killed or wounded when troops opened fire on a Palestinian demonstration inside the Haram. And in 1990, Israeli troops killed and injured more Palestinians when Muslims protested against Jews trying to lay a symbolic foundation stone for their temple inside the Haram. These are mere references to the other side of the coin. Once again I’ll refer to my original comment. We must collectively stop the finger pointing and rehashing of the past and move toward a peaceful future. A future full of cultural preservation, concession and solution for all respective cultures and dare I add religions.

  10. button Avatar
    button

    I don’t disagree with you, but there are more than two sides to this coin. The old sheikh of Beersheba had his own POV on the issue. He believed in synergy, although he did not use that specific word. He believed that this was The Way the situation in the neighborhood is supposed to be.
    I was born in 1942. The State of Israel was established in 1948. As a child, I was taught that there were “supposed to be” two states by the UN’s design, but that the Arabs did not accept that plan. I went along with this, believing it to be basically the truth until Ariel Sharon took a walk on the Tempt Mount and 9/11 happened. Then the “earth moved” for me. And everything changed. I had to re-examine my entire belief system about the situation.
    After the 1967 war, the Israelis began offering the Arabs from the conquered Jordanian territory employment. I was strongly opposed to this. My postion on this at least has not changed.
    Don’t expect your understanding and views of the situation to remain static and set in concrete for the rest of your life. Our knowledge is subject to modification with the passage of time and the introduction of new and additional information.

  11. KMK Avatar
    KMK

    Button-
    I have received no less then 11 emails from my friends about my recent postings. I share one because he summed it up the best. “For being such a book geek one would think you had a better command of the English language or at least a less snippy way of writing.” Without my friends pulling aside my books to see if I’m still breathing I’m afraid my death would go unnoticed. I’m obviously not a journalist or a writer. So apologies if I seemed a bit peaky.
    Let me start by saying I don’t disagree with you either. My Father’s 3rd wife is Jewish. They raised their 3 boys in the Jewish faith. I married a Christian Arab. Two of our Arab cousins married Jewish men. We are a very well rounded family that gets along wonderfully. I worked in NY on Wall St. till 9/11. Our office was destroyed. I was lucky enough to be in a field that allows me to work from home now. I didn’t mean to attempt justify the terrorism that currently plagues the Middle East. I can’t. I won’t. In the same respect I don’t see how people from both sides try to draw up one sided history accounts to justify the current situation. It’s impossible. I will say that your “Muslim Brotherhood Cult” comment offended me. But I won’t insult you over it. Instead I understand your opinion based on the current political situation and possibly your own education and upbringing. Which brings me back to Steppenwolf’s post. He posted he didn’t care for a movie he saw. Was he flip? Maybe. Was he insensitive? Maybe. Was he anti-Semitic? No. He isn’t responsible for the comments left at his site either. I’d like to point out that translating from Farsi to English is very difficult. Even the professional translators screw it up once in a while. I didn’t agree with Jeff’s post branding him anti-Semite. Just because someone is sick of Holocaust based movies and questions whether Hollywood hasn’t over done it was no reason to insult him. Which brings me to our correspondence. We have been cordial to each other it was not impossible. I remain optimistic towards the future.