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Crock

31 comments on Crock

Crock
: Alleged presidential candidate Dennis Kucinich sends a letter to Donald Rumseld demanding that the Defense Department “fully disclose” what happened to Pfc. Jessica Lynch. Noncontroversy. Nonstory. Noncandidate.

UPDATE: Mike G posts this in my comments, explaining to another commenter why this is a nonstory:

What makes this a non-story is where Kucinich enters it in the news cycle:

1) BBC makes outlandish allegation

2) People start refuting obvious errors and biases

3) Nutty LA columnist picks up outlandish allegation

4) Nutty columnist roundly condemned for picking up a story that by now has been thoroughly discredited

5) The world moves on

6) Flowers grow, birds sing, ocean pounds the rocks at the beach

7) New Matrix movie opens

8) People get bored with Matrix movies

9) Look, 2 for 1 on Parmesan cheese at Kroger

10) Guy delusional enough to think he could be president suddenly discovers something he’s delusional enough to think could be his hot issue

31 responses to “Crock”

  1. c monks Avatar
    c monks

    The letter itself is admittedly overblown and probably driven by an effort to get some pub for his campaign, but I wouldn’t necessarily categorize this as a “non-story”. If this rescue was staged, it adds further fuel to the fire of how the government has manipulated the media during the war.

  2. Del Simmons Avatar
    Del Simmons

    c monks, you’re wrong. It’s a non-story either way. Besides, nobody with any sense is claiming it was actually staged. It might not have been as daring and dangerous as the media made it out to be originally, but it most certainly was not staged. Even the moron Brit who claimed they were shooting blanks has backed off of that..
    To use this to try to get pub for his campaign shows two things:
    1. How pathetic he is as a candidate
    2. How pathetic the base is he’s trying to attract with this kind of pub.
    I agree Jeff, noncontrobersy, nonstory, noncandidate. I’m starting to think nonchance of winning in 2004 for the Dems if they don’t do something quick! And I hope they do as I like a good fight!

  3. mike lawson Avatar
    mike lawson

    My god…look who he quoting as sources.lol The BBC??? The Guardian???? Los Angeles Times?!?!?!
    who’s next al jazeera?? roflmao….

  4. Jackie D Avatar
    Jackie D

    I am embarrassed that Kucinich is a fellow Ohioan. We’re not all complete nutjobs, okay?

  5. balbulican Avatar
    balbulican

    Help me here. Why is it a non-story if journalists were knowingly fed lied by your government?

  6. John Irving Avatar
    John Irving

    Because they werent fed lies by the government, balbulican.

  7. Danny Avatar
    Danny

    I’m an Ohioan too, and a Clevelander at that, so I feel a special responsibility toward Dennis and his bloviations. That’s why at my blog we’re working on finding him the perfect campaign theme song… Stop by if you have a suggestion. Heh.

  8. Mike G Avatar
    Mike G

    What makes this a non-story is where Kucinich enters it in the news cycle:
    1) BBC makes outlandish allegation
    2) People start refuting obvious errors and biases
    3) Nutty LA columnist picks up outlandish allegation
    4) Nutty columnist roundly condemned for picking up a story that by now has been thoroughly discredited
    5) The world moves on
    6) Flowers grow, birds sing, ocean pounds the rocks at the beach
    7) New Matrix movie opens
    8) People get bored with Matrix movies
    9) Look, 2 for 1 on Parmesan cheese at Kroger
    10) Guy delusional enough to think he could be president suddenly discovers something he’s delusional enough to think could be his hot issue

  9. Mike G Avatar
    Mike G

    By the way, don’t mean to pick on Danny here but has anyone else noticed that “Heh” has become the first example of the Blogosphere generating on its own one of those things like Mike Myers’ “–NOT!” or ending a joke with “Ba-dum– ching!”

  10. alkali Avatar
    alkali

    Del Simmons writes:
    Besides, nobody with any sense is claiming it was actually staged. It might not have been as daring and dangerous as the media made it out to be originally …
    John Irving chimes in:
    Because [journalists] werent fed lies by the government …
    Pardon me, but what the f…? Do you think the TV-5 news team was out roaming the desert looking for a story and happened upon the rescue of PFC Lynch? The entire story was provided to the media by the military. The footage of the rescue was taken by the military. No journalists were present. Now the military refuses to release the uncut footage of the rescue and has apparently ordered PFC Lynch’s parents not to speak to the media. On those facts, it’s hardly paranoid to suggest that the military might not have been straight with the story. Exactly what would it take to convince you that something is being hidden?
    It is surely possible that the press introduced distortions into the story. But the coverage I’ve seen suggests that the press largely passed along what the military reported. (If you know otherwise, do tell.) And even if PFC Lynch and what happened to her doesn’t matter two cents in this big crazy world we live in, the fact that the world’s most powerful military thinks it’s in the business of cooking up war propaganda surely does matter.
    If that is a “nonstory” I can’t imagine what would be a story. (“Woodward! Bernstein! Stop patzing around with that burglary; the President’s cutting a ribbon to open a new shopping mall!”)

  11. Rook Avatar
    Rook

    For a nonstory, it sure has one hell of a life. That in itself makes it a story. And the harder you all cry NONSTORY the more attention it’s going to get. It’s like telling everybody not to think about a pink elephant.
    I’ll bet you think about the damn thing all day now!

  12. Rook Avatar
    Rook

    Oh, and alkali, I was going to make some smart ass comment about Watergate myself, but you just had to beat me to it…………………. phhhhhhttttttthhhhhhhhtttttt!

  13. c monks Avatar
    c monks

    Yep, maybe we should move on to other “non-stories” like the fact that weapons of mass destruction have yet to be found in Iraq.

  14. Bill Dennis Avatar
    Bill Dennis

    This is a story because there are a lot of people out there who just can’t wrap their heads around the idea that women serve in the military. They especially can’t cope with the idea that a woman soldier can be in any way heroic.
    BTW – C monks: They found the laboratory. Get over it.

  15. c monks Avatar
    c monks

    Thanks, Bill. Your right. Fight the power. Go Annika!

  16. Bill Herbert Avatar
    Bill Herbert

    It is surely possible that the press introduced distortions into the story. But the coverage I’ve seen suggests that the press largely passed along what the military reported.
    You can’t be serious. If you think that, you’re about as ignorant on this issue as Kucinich is.
    The military has tried from the get-go to tamp down on the media hype over this. But because they happened to mention the rescue at all somehow makes them guilty of some unforgiveable sin.
    A couple of WaPost reporters got hold of some intel on Lynch’s capture and injuries that hadn’t been digested yet, and decided to run with it. Their story even included a warning from DOD officials that the intelligence hadn’t been evaluated. But somehow, it’s the military’s fault that this false information was reported?
    On the rescue itself, the military has said from the very beginning that there was NO FIREFIGHT IN THE HOSPITAL. They do maintain (and the SPECOPS participants swear to this day that this is the truth) that they were fired on from remote locations on the way in and out. No one has offered any real evidence to contradict this, save the testimony of hospital staff who have no way of knowing — unless they were Iraqi military themselves.
    Even the claim that we fired on the ambulance that tried to take Lynch to safety has been refuted by the ambulance driver himself.
    There, alkali. Consider yourself enlightened. I’ll now turn your own question back to you: if you know otherwise, do tell. Otherwise, stop calling people liars when you haven’t the slightest idea what you’re talking about.

  17. Bill Herbert Avatar
    Bill Herbert

    c monks I:
    The letter itself is admittedly overblown and probably driven by an effort to get some pub for his campaign, but I wouldn’t necessarily categorize this as a “non-story”. If this rescue was staged, it adds further fuel to the fire of how the government has manipulated the media during the war.
    c monks II (after Bill Dennis injects gender politics into the issue):
    Thanks, Bill. Your right. Fight the power. Go Annika!
    Gosh, c monks. Why so rigid on this?

  18. c monks Avatar
    c monks

    Less rigid, more uninspired. I fail to see how the whole women in the military issue relates to this. It seemed an out of left field (or wait, maybe right field?) reaction. I figured I’d respond with my own.
    In all seriousness, I think good points have been made on each side of this argument. I just hope we continue to keep an eye on both the right’s and the left’s ulterior motives in using the media. Whether it’s incited by the US military or by some fringe presidential candidate with a dream, propaganda is propaganda is propaganda is propaganda.

  19. Steve Avatar
    Steve

    Maybe it’s just me, but I get a Pierre Salinger “I have proof that Flight 800 was shot down, I found it on the Internet” vibe from this.

  20. Mike G Avatar
    Mike G

    It’s NOT just you.
    The two cornerstones of the BBC story are that 1) Special Forces would wander around an actual battlefield with only blanks to defend themselves with, and 2) when the ex-employees of an Iraqi prison tell you nobody was tortured there, they must be telling the truth, because why would they lie?
    If either of those passes your smell test, you need help. Now, maybe there’s some other things to debate about this story and the Pentagon’s handling of same, but the reason it has a life is because it’s simple and idiotic enough to appeal to the no-airplane-crash-at-the-Pentagon/faked-moon-landings crowd.

  21. John Anderson Avatar
    John Anderson

    This is just another Basra. Remember that? The Brits said they had secured the Basra Airport: the media headlined it as “Brits take Basra”: and ever after, the media the media said the Brits lied because Basra – the city – was still a battlefield.
    Funny, the last time I checked the airfield for the capital of my state was about twenty miles away, in a different county for Pete’s sake, not downtown next to City Hall or the State House.

  22. MAry Avatar
    MAry

    Has anyone realized that the military asking Ms. Lynch’s family to say nothing and their refusal to elaborate on the specifics may be to protect Ms. Lynch? She says she cannot remember what happened. I CAN remember when a terrible thing happened to me, and I would be delighted to be able to say “I can’t remember.” But I did and I had to “remember” it over and over again for cops, lawyers, judges and juries (not to mention victim’s rights advocats). Face it, IF the girl was raped or abused in any manner, would she want to spend the rest of her life being referred to as “Jessica Lynch, the POW who was …..”? Not only NO, but HELL NO! Leave it be, in time the truth will come out (it always does) and by then she (and the rest of us) will be ready to accept and able handle it.

  23. Rook Avatar
    Rook

    Why is there such passion over a nonstory? Because in the end, a story becomes a story because the readers read the story. Then they talk about the story. It does not matter what “professionals” say is a story or not. In the end, does the public respond? That is the question that seems to be needing an answer.

  24. John Irving Avatar
    John Irving

    Essentially the whole “controversy” is being raked up by people who are anti-Bush. Fine, you want someone else to be President next election, it’s a free country. But you’re not convincing me by misrepresenting facts that have already come out, by accusations of conspiracy and deception, or by your subtle but persistent anti-US everything-America-does-is-wrong bias.
    Simple point, for Lynch, the WMD’s, and other controversies over Iraq, and I’m not the first to bring this up. The top Democrats in the Senate have access to the intel the military used, and have reviewed it. Can you honestly say in this political climate they would not have initiated Congressional hearings if they suspected any deceit on the part of the administration?
    Case dismissed, next topic please.

  25. not Bill Herbert Avatar
    not Bill Herbert

    I don’t think it would be a atretch to call Bill Herbert a liar. He’s carried this disingenuous argument to many a site. Observe:
    UM, WAIT A MINUTE
    What’s interesting about this is that — contrary to the revisionists’ spin — this makes clear that a lot of the Lynch stories didn’t originate with the Pentagon to begin with.
    –lnstapundit
    The original Washington Post story, dated April 3 (now pulled from their website):
    WASHINGTON – Pfc. Jessica Lynch, rescued Tuesday from an Iraqi hospital, fought fiercely and shot several enemy soldiers after Iraqi forces ambushed the Army’s 507th Ordnance Maintenance company, firing her weapon until she ran out of ammunition, U.S. officials said yesterday.
    Lynch, 19, a supply clerk, continued firing at the Iraqis even after she sustained multiple gunshot wounds and watched several other soldiers in her unit die in fighting 11 days ago, one official said. The ambush took place after a 507th convoy took a wrong turn in the southern city of Nasiriyah.
    “She was fighting to the death,” the official said. “She did not want to be taken alive.”
    Lynch was stabbed when Iraqi forces closed in on her position, the official said, noting that initial intelligence reports indicated that she had been stabbed to death.
    ————–
    So apparently, pretty much ALL the Lynch myth originated “with the Pentagon to begin with,” Glenn. Not the “official Pentagon,” perhaps, but certainly in the same building.
    Of course we also have Donald Rumsfeld’s comments from his briefing the morning after on the subject:
    “We are certainly grateful for the brilliant and courageous rescue of Sergeant, correction PFC Jessica Lynch who was being held by Iraqi forces in, in what they called a ‘hospital.’”
    http://www.snappingturtle.net/jmc/flit/2003_05_01_archive.html#94785679
    —————————————–
    For more of the Bill Herbert approach to ‘objectivity’, go to his site and notice the fetish for intellectual contortion:
    http://cointelprotool.blogspot.com/
    And if you’re interested, Bruce Rolston takes on the Instapundit – while bitch-slapping Billy-boy a few times:
    http://www.snappingturtle.net/jmc/flit/2003_05_01_archive.html#93830243
    http://www.snappingturtle.net/jmc/flit/2003_05_01_archive.html#94634495
    http://www.snappingturtle.net/jmc/flit/2003_05_01_archive.html#94660263
    http://www.snappingturtle.net/jmc/flit/2003_05_01_archive.html#94749138
    http://www.snappingturtle.net/jmc/flit/2003_05_01_archive.html#94758018
    http://www.snappingturtle.net/jmc/flit/2003_05_01_archive.html#94786229
    http://www.snappingturtle.net/jmc/flit/2003_05_01_archive.html#94830314
    http://www.snappingturtle.net/jmc/flit/2003_05_01_archive.html#95041652

  26. Bill Herbert Avatar
    Bill Herbert

    Uh, I’m not Instapundit.
    If you are going to call me a liar — even if you are too much of a coward to use your real name — I’d appreciate it if you’d show an example of my stating something that wasn’t true.
    Unlike Glenn Reynolds — who you quote in trying to expose me as a liar — I have never said that the original false reports about Lynch didn’t “originate with the Pentagon.”
    But what the coward who is not me doesn’t point out is that the very story he/she cites contains the following paragraph (right after the passage Flit selectively quoted):
    Several officials cautioned that the precise sequence of events is still being determined, and that further information will emerge as Lynch is debriefed. Reports thus far are based on battlefield intelligence, they said, which comes from monitored communications and from Iraqi sources in Nasiriyah whose reliability has yet to be assessed. Pentagon officials said they had heard “rumors” of Lynch’s heroics but had no confirmation.
    I think I’ve held my own against Bruce, who admits we agree on about 90% of the Lynch debate. In fact, he wrote:
    There were, obviously, no such official claims. Bill Herbert’s right to be angry at that stuff.
    Try again, whoever you are.

  27. objectivity Avatar
    objectivity

    Bill ‘the liar’ Herbert,
    You may object to being called a poor man’s Glenn Reynolds, but the two of you did make similar arguments. As for the suggestion that Bruce Rolston agreed with 90% of your drivel (“I’ve held my own) – pleeeeeaaaassssseee. Taking his comment:
    “Bill Herbert’s right to be angry at that stuff.”
    And applying it to the entire debate (much of which occurred well after Bruce’s ‘praise’) is so…so…. – so Bill Herbert. lol
    While it was ‘nice’ of you to point out the fact that “several officials cautioned that the precise sequence of events is still being determined” – it does little to change the original source of the bullshit – that being the Pentagon.
    And considering the tight hold DOD holds on info related to events that ‘are still under investigation’ (friendly fire, civilian slaughter, etc) – the volume of false information related to the ‘Saving Private Jessica’ story – up to and including her current ’bout’ of amnesia – makes your “but somehow, it’s the military’s fault that this false information was reported” condescension laughable.
    I hope they’re not too salt for yah.

  28. HH Avatar
    HH

    The Lynches did not say they were told not to discuss it, and at that same press conference they said she did not have amnesia.

  29. HH Avatar
    HH

    I take it Kucinich doesn’t watch Brokaw…
    http://www.mrc.org/cyberalerts/2003/cyb20030603.asp#4

  30. Robert Crawford Avatar
    Robert Crawford

    The fervor with which some people need to believe the BBC story reveals more about them than I think they realize.

  31. not HH or Crawford Avatar
    not HH or Crawford

    Actually,
    One need not buy into the ‘fervor’ of the BBC story – the lion’s share of the ‘free press’ have eventually come around to ‘investigating’, ‘explaining’ – and of course, retracting. Too bad they didn’t apply the same diligence to reporting that sold the illegal war – and the war crimes of U.S. forces.
    Americans can be so stupid.
    As for HH and his Lynch rhetoric – you may want to pigeon-hole it down to a specific news conference – but the muzzle was put on the Lynch family – and that was calculated. Or are you suffering from Pentagon diagnosed – not parent diagnosed – amnesia?
    Lynches Say They Can’t Discuss POW Rescue
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A53277-2003May29.html
    HH and Crawford – you’re good examples of the moral decay that is America. It’s no surprise that kids shoot up schools so regularly in our country. Thanks for the spin – you jackasses.