Old fool

Old fool
: Molly Ivins:

Much as I hate to interrupt what is apparently a deeply felt triumphalism on the American right, now that it’s over, does anyone see any reason for our having invaded Iraq?

I realize that’s what we all kept trying to figure out before the invasion, but don’t you think it should at least be visible in hindsight? Good thing we won the war, because the peace sure looks like a quagmire.

If I had the energy, I’d pull out the fisking knife and start chopping. But I don’t and this is just too patently stupid to be worth the effort. You want a reason, Molly? Try staring into a few mass graves, for a start.

  • Fil Bonfiglio

    what about all the other mass graves out there in countries that do not sit on top of a wealth of oil? this was a very selective war…certainly not a selfless enterprise.

  • button

    “The peace looks like a quagmire.”
    But it looks better than the plastic shredder the Husseins were putting human beings into.

  • Oh, the ones in Bosnia? Chechnya? Afghanistan? Chemmani? Yeah, those are nasty.

  • I’m pretty sure that “quagmire” is now on the official list of Words that Mean Nothing, so she pretty much fisked herself.

  • Are mass graves somehow more horrifying to you than lots of individual graves, or are the victims of Saddam Hussein deader than the victims of Don Rumsfeld?

  • “Oh, the ones in Bosnia? Chechnya? Afghanistan? Chemmani? Yeah, those are nasty.”
    I love this logic. “We should let this bank robber go because there are other, even worse crimials out there still free.” It is a line of reasoning that can only lead to inaction.
    Should we let the Iraqis die because there are other people in the world dying under similar circumstances? Should we allow Saddam to develop WMD because there are OTHER nations that have them that are dangerous?
    How nice of you to spend your rage not on the killers in Bosnia and Chechnya, not on the murderers in Iraq, but the people who STOPPED the slaughter.
    I wish you could live in the world you want to create. You deserve it.

  • John

    Until her dying day, Molly will never, never, ever get over the 1994 Texas gubenatorial election, so any comments she makes about U.S. policy, domestic (where at least she’s consistant) or foreign have to be seen in that light. If Bush did it, she’s against it, and one of these days, everyone else will see the light and Ann Richards will be avenged.
    (Ironically, thanks to Molly’s connections to some of the key media elites due to her past work with the New York Times and current writings in publications like The Nation, too many media people out of New York and Washington have, since the mid-1980s, gone to Ms. Ivins for the inside stuff on what Texans are really thinking, which given Texas’ political leanings, is about like going to former New York City mayoral candidate William F. Buckley, Jr., to get the hot tips on the inner workings of the New York City Council. But that’s what they did in the late ’90s trying to get a handle on Bush, and its also when Molly coined the term “Shrub” and pretty much helped fix the image in many minds that Bush was an idiot, which helped cause the Gore campaign to “misunderestimate” him in the 2000 election.
    Had Molly not had so much animus towards GWB over the ’94 election and had said to her friends outside of Texas, “Watch out for this guy, he’s craftier than he looks and sounds,” there’s a strong possibility the Gore people would have done a better job from the start of the campaign and Al would have been elected president. So Karl Rove ought to slip a few extra bucks in Ms. Ivin’s direction for her contribution to putting Bush over the top, and making the liberation of Iraq possible.)

  • Fil Bonfiglio

    really all this nationalism, militarism, borderism, us vs them.. etc etc…has to stop one day. the human race is immature. when will folks realize that we ALL have the same basic hopes and goals? eat, sleep, fuck, dream, love our children..do our best with the time we have. we’re ALL human..it’s one planet. wake me up in a thousand years when everyone else has caught up..or not at all.
    i can tell you one thing. bush is an extremely primitive individual…and anyone who follows him does so with his knuckles dragging in the dirt.

  • Steve

    Fil, define “primitive”, please. I’d like to see some reasoning behind your claim, as opposed to just saying something and assuming it’s self-evident. To say nothing of painting his “followers” (and, by the way, how are they defined?) with such a broad brush.

  • Not to be overly superficial, but Molly does look like a special olympian too. No offense to special olympians intended…

  • Scott Harris

    Remind me again how and when those mass graves came about? And maybe there weren’t any kiddie prisons the last time a Bush had tanks in Iraq? And who cared again? And why the need then for the ‘imminent threat’ justification? Maybe Saddam was on the verge of developing ‘mobile’ mass grave technology?
    We should’ve been in Baghdad the first time. But the idea wasn’t so… hip as it is now.
    Glad to hear it for everybody’s self-esteem. Yeah. We rock.

  • You people just crack me up! No, no, that is not a put-down, but rather an experession of how I feel about the variety of opinions voiced in blogs! I am currently expanding my horizons in the blogosphere and I absolutely must bookmark the buzzmachine for future lurking!
    Cheers and a happy memorial day!

  • balbulican

    Summing up the responses to Molly’s piece above, I come up with the following:
    – Saddam Hussein was doing a pretty bad job, so it’s okay if we do too;
    – Molly has a history of not liking GWB;
    – Molly looks like a special olympian.
    Good to see mature debate and incisive rebuttal continues to be a hallmark of political discourse on the right.

  • Shalegrey

    Steve, Fil’s “primitive” is defined as not having evolved beyond the limitations of capital letters, proper punctuation, good grammar, or even common sense. In his world if one murderer can outrun the law, we shouldn’t bother chasing any, even should they crawl on all fours.

  • marvin

    Prior to the war, Young Bush failed to mention the “mass graves reason” for going to war. In fact, all of the reasons (weapons of mass destruction, imminent threat to USA, ties to Bin Laden) for going to war were altered or forgotten as we moved on to victory. We are rid of The Saddam — that’s what has been accomplished. But, we are still in danger of an Islamic/Iranian theocracy. And, the terrorists are just as active as before the Iraqi invasion.
    As for those graves, that was the Hussein method of keeping order. Privitive, savage, inhuman. It’s good that he’s gone. But, why didn’t we have the courage to say that’s what we wanted in the first place. Why all the lies before the war?

  • Balbulican

    Because it would not have been saleable. Nations go to war from self interest, not altruism. Americans had to be convinced that they were in real and personal danger before they would support the invasion of Iraq.