Moral proportionalism

I missed this rousing and right comment on the faked photo scandal and the faked issue of equivalency in Hezbollah’s war from Tim Rutten but just caught it thanks to Eat the Press:

It’s worth noting in this context that there is no similar flow of propagandistic images coming from the Israeli side of the border. That’s because one side — the democratically elected government of Israel — views death as a tragedy and the other — the Iranian financed terrorist organization Hezbollah — sees it as an opportunity. In this case, turning their own dead children into material creates an opportunity to cloud the fact that every Lebanese casualty, tragic as he or she is, was killed or injured as an unavoidable consequence of Israel’s pursuit of terrorists who use their own people as human shields. Every Israeli civilian killed or injured was the victim of a terrorist attack intended to harm civilians. That alone ought to wash away any blood-stained suggestion of moral equivalency.

  • http://dearnight.blogspot.com/ Ben

    Lebenon’s going to need to conquer Israel…..so it has enough land to bury its dead soldiers in! here’s my website please have a looksee. http://dearnight.blogspot.com/

    peace out,
    Ben

  • http://www.tyndallreport.com Andrew Tyndall

    The BuzzMachine calls Rutten “rousing and right.”

    Rutten is right about the criminality of Hezbollah’s Katyusha attacks: “Every Israeli civilian killed or injured was the victim of a terrorist attack intended to harm civilians.”

    However, he also lapses into hyperbole twice.

    He criticizes Hezbollah’s propagandists for “turning their own dead children into material.” What were they supposed to do? Ignore the fact children were being killed? Hide the deaths from the news media? Surely Rutten does not suggest that we would be better off not knowing about these fatalities.

    Rutten also calls the 800-or-so Lebanese civilian deaths caused by Israeli weapons “unavoidable” as if there was nothing whatsoever the Israeli military could have done differently in its conduct of the war. Of course some of these deaths were avoidable. This “Hezbollah made me do it” defense deprives the state of Israel of the very moral responsibility that Rutten so rousingly asserts on its behalf.

    So Rutten is rousing – and half right.

  • Ravo

    Photojournalism in Crisis

    Amid the controversy over certain pictures from Lebanon, a longtime student of war photography asks, “I’m not sure if the craft I love is being murdered, committing suicide, or both.”

    read it all….
    http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/columns/shoptalk_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003019475

  • Kat

    Rutten forgot to mention that the children were human shields for cowardly terrorists. If you live among and harbor terrorists then you put your lives in their hands and sometimes children become ‘martyrs’ for their sick cause–to destroy all Jews.

  • Ravo

    Islam is not horrified at the concept of child martyrs. They do, however, play to the fact that the West is.

    Inciting Children
    http://www.memritv.org/Search.asp?ACT=S5&P1=165

  • Ravo

    Below is a copy/paste from elsewhere. The elephant in the room is:

    If there “can never be scope for a democratic rule from the Islamic point of view” the moment someone says they are Muslim, entrance into any democratic country ought to be denied.

    Anything else is seditious.

    Last night, I saw an interview with an ex-Muslim on TV, who had written a book. He spoke of the fallacy of those who argue moderate Muslims want democracy.

    He stated 73% of Muslims support the SAME fundamental Islamic beliefs as Osama Bin Laden.

    ..and that is why, he said, you had Hamas elected in a free election.

    “What is the islamic understanding about democracy, Is there any place for it in islam?

    Answer 15522

    The common form of democracy prevalent at the moment is representative democracy, in which the citizens do not exercise their right of legislating and issuing political decrees in person, but rather through representatives chosen by them.

    The constitution of a democratic country will be largely influenced by the needs and wants of its people. Thus, if its people want casinos, bars, gay marriages, prostitution, etc. then with sufficient public pressure, all these vices can be accommodated for.

    From this, it becomes simple to understand that there can never be scope for a democratic rule from the Islamic point of view.

    and Allah Ta’ala Knows Best

    Mufti Ebrahim Desai

    (Please note – and understand – the word NEVER)

  • bittorent

    Israel doesn’t need to fake pictures because its propaganda comes in the form of control over the US media. A media that is terrified to say anything against Israel, as are American politicians.

    The trouble is, Americans start off from the point of view that their media is balanced and fair. But like hell it is. You are not seeing a true impression. The reports, the language, the terminology used, is all slanted to give the impression it is evil terrorists against poor Israel.

    Do some proper research online, view some media from around the world, and THEN comment.

  • Ravo

    ps. note – to avoid confusion:

    I quoted two separate people in my last post.

    The author mentioned at the top of the post is an ex-Muslim…(I can’t remember the ex-Muslim’s author name.)

    The italics at the bottom are an excerpt from a different article – and reference a man of Muslim faith named Mufti Ebrahim Desai

  • Kat

    Where the hell is this pro-Israel media??? I thought it was all pro-hezbollah. They feed the media what they want reported–they even run ambulances around the block for CNN and they use one dead body for a hundred pictures. There is no better ally for hezbollah than the media.

  • Ravo

    If the journalists didn’t use what was staged they got nothing.

  • http://www.mythusmageopines.com/wp Alan Kellogg

    Tyndall,

    Did Hezbolloh have to display the corpses like they were sides of beef?

    “Toddler, it’s what’s for dinner!”

  • http://www.tyndallreport.com Andrew Tyndall

    Kellogg —

    You are cold.

    Children’s bodies are charred like meat by acts of war…

    …and your objection is to the lack of taste with which the corpses are presented for view.

  • Pingback: Wordblog » Blog Archive » Journalism under pressure

  • clinton

    i wouldn suggest moral equivalency here but i would excuse, nay expect an ignorant and inocent people (the lebonese collateral damage etc) to suggesting it. lets not be too eager to typify every resident of the middle east as a gun toting terrorist. a little compassion tossed in the direction of reasonable parties there could potentially benefit america’s cause greatly. sure weve gone through motions of diplomacy and the pen instead of the sword but its easy to doubt the sincerity of this administration. i hold out hope that ghandi’s middle eastern brother will save us all yet

  • Franky

    “Every Israeli civilian killed or injured was the victim of a terrorist attack intended to harm civilians. That alone ought to wash away any blood-stained suggestion of moral equivalency.”

    Seriously how do you sleep at night just dismissing the hundreds and hundreds of Lebanese civilians killed in this war?
    The only human reaction is to mourn the Israeli and Lebanese dead and wish and strive to avoid such deaths, instead its here with some bullshit about how one side was so right to be bombing apartment blocks.

    Do you feel more masculine solemnly deciding that such military action was necessary? You know it might be more convincing from a person who lived in a world of violence – who actually walked the walk not just talked the talk.

    You tool.

  • Eileen

    How does Hezbollah sleep at night after causing all of the deaths you mourn, Franky, by hiding among their own women and children [COWARDS]….where they fire upon Israel civilians INTENTIONALLY, EVERY SINGLE ROCKET….and then wait for return fire upon their ‘civilians’ as they wage a propaganda war of dead trophy kids?

    They are animals…as are you, if you support them.

    You pig.

  • http://oxfordalliance.blogspot.com/2006/08/slightly-off-topic.html Tom

    Eileen writes: They are animals…as are you, if you support them. You pig.

    Yep, as long as we are incarnate, we are animals, but not necessarily pigs.

    Btw, are you still lending your support to Islamic terrorists in the Balkins Eileen? Do you still approve of the Clinton/Lieberman/Bush use of Nato to protect these terrorsits?

    If Franky’s failure to rail strongly against Hez/terrorists to suit you makes Franky a pig, what does your failure to rail at all against KLA/al-Qaida make you?

    Are you not troubled that Christians in Serbia are being murdered by bin Laden’s minions even now? Or do you hold that some terrorism by Muslims against Christians and Jews, as long as it is ignored by the press and politicians, is acceptable?

  • http://www.downes.ca Stephen Downes

    How about that other side, — the democratically elected government of Lebanon — that views death as a tragedy?

    I think that when they look out over their shattered cities they take note that it was Israeli bombers, not Hezbollah fighters, that have killed the hundreds of innocents and displaced the hundreds of thousands.

    The claims that ‘Hezbollah made us do this’ ring hollow. Hezbollah did not kill a thousand people in response to a kidnapping, though they certainly had amply provocation. Israel did.

  • Michael

    The figures stand up for themselves: the proportion of military / civilian deaths indicates who the real aggressors were in this conflict.

    The official Lebanese death toll stands at 845 total – 743 civilians, 34 Lebanese soldiers, and 68 Hezbollah fighters. Over 4,051 Lebanese were left wounded. The Higher Relief Council put the overall death toll at 1,181 and said one-third were children and the majority were civilians. Lebanese officials unofficially stated 4,500 Israeli bombing raids on Lebanon. Over $3.5 billion worth of damage was caused to infrastructure; $9.4 billion overall including the oil spill clean up.[citation needed] The official Israeli death toll stands at 157 total – 118 soldiers and 39 civilians. Over 860 Israelis were left wounded.

  • Kat

    Where is the outrage against the cowards who kidnap Israeli soldiers, who fire rockets into civilian neighborhoods daily, who fire from civilian homes, hospitals, schools, and mosques, who hide among civilians to protect their cowardly skins? If the Lebanese are stupid enough to allow terrorists to run their country, then they can’t complain when those terrorists cause civilians that they use for human shields, are killed. What would be the world reaction if Israel marched into Lebanon,led by an entourage of little children and women? Of course, we all know muslims won’t fire upon them. Lebanon seems more bent out of shape that their soldiers had tea with some Israelis than anything else. Lebanon refuses to recognize Israel as a state but has no problem recognizing a bunch of terrorists as a government within the so called democratically elected government of Lebanon. What a joke–it’s a government that takes orders from terrorists.

  • http://oxfordalliance.blogspot.com/2006/08/slightly-off-topic.html tom

    Kat states: If the Lebanese are stupid enough to allow terrorists to run their country, then they can’t complain when those terrorists cause civilians that they use for human shields, are killed.

    Kat, I have great respect for your no nonsense attitude (your statements are consistent and without contradiction), but if Israel, after 20 plus years of occupation of Lebanon wasn’t able to eradicate Hez, why do you expect better results from a fledgeling government? Tom

  • Eileen

    Tom,

    I don’t support Islamic terrorists in any location on any part of the globe. I questioned the continuation of Clinton policies and their efficacy because I don’t have access to all the information the powers that be may be relying on at this point. Nor am I privy to the historic, strategic or diplomatic reasons for our prior actions there. I AM of the opinion that Clinton basically bombed the wrong side.

    Your continued attack against people like me in this forum leaves me questionning your own allegiances. Are you with or against terrorist apologists? And no one in this forum for several years now by any stretch of the imagination would suggest I ‘support’ Islamofascism in any way, shape or form. In the prior thread I discussed the reasons our government has, in some instances, alligned itself with the lesser of two evils in terms of an array of factors. To suggest I support terrorists is absurd.

  • http://oxfordalliance.blogspot.com/2006/08/slightly-off-topic.html tom

    Eileen writes: Your continued attack against people like me in this forum leaves me questionning your own allegiances. Are you with or against terrorist apologists?.

    I have repeatedly stated that I am opposed to terrorism.

    Eileen: And no one in this forum for several years now by any stretch of the imagination would suggest I ’support’ Islamofascism in any way, shape or form.

    I am suggesting exactly that. The best repudiation of KLA terrorism that you have mustered is ‘maybe’.

    Eileen: In the prior thread I discussed the reasons our government has, in some instances, alligned itself with the lesser of two evils in terms of an array of factors. To suggest I support terrorists is absurd.

    Terrorism as the lesser of two evils? Ha!

    What a convenient escape card for you to hold. If you support our current policy in the Balkans, you support bin Laden’s minions. Ignorance is no excuse for one as vocal as you are Eileen. Hypocrisy is no virtue.

  • Eileen

    “I am suggesting exactly that. The best repudiation of KLA terrorism that you have mustered is ‘maybe’.”

    Wrong on both counts. Reread my words.

    You will continue to twist and misrepresent my words to no avail. Although I don’t have all day to refute your various false charges, fortunately I’m not required to as I’m not your dhimmi.

    Now, if you really *are* against terrorism, you’ll lob your missiles against those who clearly act as their apologists rather than those who clearly are not, such as Kat, Penny, Ravo and myself.

    Somehow I don’t expect you to do that.

  • http://oxfordalliance.blogspot.com/2006/08/slightly-off-topic.html tom

    Eileen: I don’t have access to all the information the powers that be may be relying on at this point. Nor am I privy to the historic, strategic or diplomatic reasons for our prior actions there.

    Eileen,

    So you feel more comfortable commenting on what’s going on in Iraq and Lebanon because you have ‘access to all the information the powers that be may be relying on at this point’. Oh please!

    The Clinton/Bush policy in the Balkans is to give bin laden’s minions a safe haven. Osma must thank his lucky stars to have us for his protector/adversary.

    Yours,

    Stuck on Serbia

  • http://oxfordalliance.blogspot.com/2006/08/slightly-off-topic.html tom

    Eileen writes: Now, if you really *are* against terrorism, you’ll lob your missiles against those who clearly act as their apologists rather than those who clearly are not, such as Kat, Penny, Ravo and myself.

    Eillen,

    Kat, Penny and Ravo have not suggested that the problems in the Balkans are irrelevant, but you have. I may not agree with everything they write, but I’d never suggest they are uninformed hypocrites.

    Stuck on Serbia

  • Eileen

    Again, I don’t have all day to debate with Stuck on Serbia. Obviously I’ve never suggested, much less stated, that “the problems in the Balkans are irrelevant”. More lies and obfuscation. I’ll begin to believe your *claim* that you’re not a terrorist supporter/jihadi with all day to play on the computer when you lob your missiles at them, instead of people like me.

    Waiting.

  • http://oxfordalliance.blogspot.com/2006/08/slightly-off-topic.html tom

    Eileen writes: Should Bush change that position given the current state of affairs with respect to Islamofascism? Maybe.
    http://buzzmachine.com/index.php/2006/08/10/blind-fools/#comments

    Maybe?

    Eileen concludes: It’s just not worth any more of my time. I’ll leave stuck-on-Serbia to talk to himself.

    If you don’t understand the relationship betwen our Balkans’ policy and the WOT, then you don’t understand the WOT.

    You do not understand . . .

  • http://oxfordalliance.blogspot.com/2006/08/slightly-off-topic.html tom

    Eileen writes: Again, I don’t have all day to debate with Stuck on Serbia.

    Of course you don’t.

    It would be silly to waste time debating a point you cannot win.

    Do you agree that the Bush policy in the Balkans is misguided? Or are you still unsure about the wisdom of providing Osma with a safe haven?

  • Eileen

    As I said then and I’ll repeat now: YOU’RE not worth any more of my time. I amplified my comments in that thread as well as here and now.

    Yet you persist in lobbing missiles and misrepresenting.

    And I see below (in the thread titled “It’s a War on Terror and a Long One”) you continue to attack Kat by suggesting her approach would constitute war crimes and be violative of international treaties.

    Which side are you on, Stuck?

    ‘When you receive flak, you’re directly over…”

    Have a great Sunday, Infidels!

  • http://oxfordalliance.blogspot.com/2006/08/slightly-off-topic.html tom

    Eileen writes: And I see below (in the thread titled “It’s a War on Terror and a Long One”) you continue to attack Kat by suggesting her approach would constitute war crimes and be violative of international treaties.

    I most certainly am not attacking Kat. I disagree with her remedy, but respect her honesty.

    She has not shown herself to be a hypocrite.

    Eileen: As I said then and I’ll repeat now: YOU’RE not worth any more of my time. I amplified my comments in that thread as well as here and now.

    ‘Maybe’, is not amplification, and neither is pleading ignorance.

  • Eileen

    Maybe was not the amplification, stuck on stupid.

  • http://oxfordalliance.blogspot.com/2006/08/slightly-off-topic.html tom

    Eileen: you continue to attack Kat by suggesting her approach would constitute war crimes and be violative of international treaties.

    Are you contending that collective punishment, and acts of war advancing legitimate military objectives are not prohibited?

    I get it, you have never served in combat arms.

  • http://oxfordalliance.blogspot.com/2006/08/slightly-off-topic.html tom

    Eileen writes: Maybe was not the amplification, stuck on stupid.

    Nor, was anything else.

    Eileen’s pretend amplification: I don’t have access to all the information the powers that be may be relying on at this point. Nor am I privy to the historic, strategic or diplomatic reasons for our prior actions there.

    Duh!

  • http://oxfordalliance.blogspot.com/2006/08/slightly-off-topic.html tom

    Tom writes: Are you contending that collective punishment, and acts of war advancing legitimate military objectives are not prohibited?

    It should read, ‘not advancing’.

  • Eileen

    More attacks, more misrepresentations and more obfuscation.

    In two words, “Tom”, fuck off.

  • http://oxfordalliance.blogspot.com/2006/08/slightly-off-topic.html tom

    Eileen: I don’t have access to all the information the powers that be may be relying on at this point. Nor am I privy to the historic, strategic or diplomatic reasons for our prior actions there.

    I see you are pleading the Nuremberg defence Col. Klink.

  • Tom

    Eileen: More attacks, more misrepresentations and more obfuscation. In two words, “Tom”, fuck off.

    Your vocab is impressive Eileen. You must attend church every Sunday.

    Why not copy the misrepresentations to a comment post (with a link) plus a link to your post that establishes that I have indeed misrepresented your words?

    I know, you are too busy to back your claims up with evidence.

  • Arjay

    My, what a pontification by Rutten. If only he could offer his pronouncements on the spotlessness of Israeli slaughter according to the Jarvis Model of Pollyannaism: as an opinionated moderator. Even as a generous host.

  • Eileen

    Oh geez, Jeff. And the circle turns.

    Good night.

  • http://www.digitalstreetjournal.com Jonathan Trenn

    Well, well,well.

    Tom –

    First of all, I have to say that I find Eileen’s often approach to be often offensive. Personal attacks. If you disagree with on the nature of Islam, or on the Israeli/Hezbollah conflict, or other things here, you get a personal insult.

    For all I know she may be great in person. Probably has a sweet side. Kat and Penny too. Warm fuzzy types. Believe it or not, I’m serious when I say that.

    But why have you chosen to go after soley Eileen regarding Serbia and the KLA? Your points regarding that conflict have largely been ignored by all.

    The fact that your points have been ignored is not a good thing, because they should be considered BUT this thread was about the Middle East.

    Also, I remember lotsa and lotsa of dead Croatians and Muslims at the hand of Milosevic as well. No society has a monopoly on terror.

  • http://oxfordalliance.blogspot.com/2006/08/free-marketplace-of-ideas.html Tom

    Jonathan Trenn asks: But why have you chosen to go after soley Eileen regarding Serbia and the KLA?

    Although I don’t agree with Kat on many points she is generally consistent in her analysis and logic. I think the same might be said of Penny’s and Ravo’s participation, but not Eileen’s. (Btw, Kat and Eileen didn’t ignore my original point.)

    Eileen probably is lovely in person, but I only know her through the pixels she deposits here.

    Jonathan continues: Your points regarding that conflict have largely been ignored by all. The fact that your points have been ignored is not a good thing, because they should be considered BUT this thread was about the Middle East.

    Yes, the points have been largely ignored, but is this thread about the Middle East or “Moral Proportionalism”? The title suggests the topic is moral proportionalism.

    If it is about the ME, then my comments are irrelevant, but if the topic is moral proportionalism the remarks are relevant. Although I acknowledge that most folks won’t bother to read what I post (and that’s ok), it would behove those who comment on, or censor, my remarks to read them first. (Jeff I don’t think your movie metaphor holds up.)

    Jeff’s/Rutten’s original comment cites the fake photo controversy as evidence. There are/were a number of alledged fake photo’s and related propaganda used to manipulated public support for our bombing of Serbia. I guess sometimes doctoring photographs is a dark art, and at other times its OK.

    Is the following relevant?

    President Clinton used fabricated, staged massacres as casus belli both to bomb the Bosnian Serb positions in 1995 and all-out bombings of the Serbian infrastructure and civilians in 1999. Staged massacres and then blaming the Serbs for them were a pattern of Bosnian Muslim war strategy. Combined with highly cooperative partisan media, these staged massacres served as pretense to bomb the Bosnian Serb positions. Similarly in Kosovo, the KLA staged the Racak massacre, which was aided and abetted by the American man on the ground as the chief of OSCE observers, ambassador Walker. The Racak massacre was litigated during the trial of Slobodan Milosevic at the ICTY. Milosevic was obviously successful in his defense as illustrated with the fact that the British judge dropped the Racak massacre from the indictment of Milosevic’s successor, Milan Milutinovic, former deputy prime minister, two former army chiefs of staff and two generals. The six accused represent almost all of Serbia’s political and military top leadership in 1999. The judge stated that it “would be too difficult to prove exactly where the responsibility lies.” (link provided at the end of this comment.)

    Jonathan’s final point: Also, I remember lotsa and lotsa of dead Croatians and Muslims at the hand of Milosevic as well.

    I’m not a Milosevich supporter, but the evidence of Serb atrocities is not undisputed (and some definitely was fabricated).

    Moreover, the 78 days of bombing Serbia didn’t weaken his grip. Even folks who hated him (e.g. my wife’s family) did not welcome our air strikes. There may be a lesson in there for those who support Israel’s air campaign.

    I would love to see an end to terrorism, but without our resorting to the questionable methods of terror ourselves.

    The terrorist organizations like Hezbollah, Al Qaeda, KLA and others have obviously no respect for innocent human life and that is why they are characterized as terrorists. However, both Israel and the U.S.- led NATO have also exhibited a disregard for innocent human life and civilian infrastructure despite intensive PR campaigns to prove to the contrary and using the collateral damage terminology, the term I resent from the bottom of my heart. In the military lingo these are called strategic bombing campaigns aimed to flatten key economic resources and are usually designed to bend the targeted government to the will of the attacker or turn the populace against the government. The U.S.-led NATO air campaign had an objective not only to punish Milosevic but also to teach the Serbian people a lesson. Likewise Israel is teaching Lebanese people a lesson.

    For most policymakers and people, moralization stops once they make up their mind as to who initiated the fight so that regard for human life during the fight is a nonissue. This is why the NATO governments and the media were so adamant in convincing the world of Serb atrocities so that once the fighting starts all moralization is out of the window because the belief as to who is guilty has already been settled.

    The UN has estimated that 600,000 Lebanese civilians were uprooted in the first 12 days of Israeli aggression. They have been fleeing from Israeli bombs and responding to Israeli leaflets dropped by aircraft urging them to flee from Southern Lebanon.

    The ICTY prosecutors claim that Serbian forces expelled some 800,000 Kosovo Albanians who fled into Macedonia and Albania. In his defense Milosevic claimed that the bulk of them fled from NATO bombs and in response to leaflets dropped by NATO urging them to flee. Local radio stations, including Radio Tirana, joined in.

    In the U.S. the terrorists are viewed to be Al Qaeda, Hezbollah, Hamas, etc., but not the Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA), Chechens or Pakistani Lashkar–e-Taiba who recently killed 207 Indians and wounded more than 800. Those killing innocent Serbs, Russians or Indians are not classified as terrorists. Only those killing Americans, Brits and Jews are.
    http://serbianna.com/blogs/joksimovich/

    (If you click the link, know that I do not agree with all of Dr. Joksimovich’s statements, but do think they are relevant to any discussion of the WOT.)

  • http://oxfordalliance.blogspot.com/2006/08/free-marketplace-of-ideas.html Tom

    With reference to my comment above:

    Dr. Vojin Joksimovich was born, raised and educated in Belgrade, Former Yugoslavia. At the age of eight, eyewitness and sole survivor of Nazi bombing which instantly killed seven family members. Ph.D. in Nuclear Engineering from the Imperial College, London University. Nuclear power plant safety specialist. Originated over 125 professional publications presented at various international conferences. Published over 50 newspaper columns and delivered over 40 talks on Balkan conflicts. Author of Kosovo Crisis: A Study in Foreign Policy Mismanagement and The Revenge of the Prophet: How Clinton and Predecessors Empowered Radical Islam.

  • kat

    Tom: I empathize with you. I know how strongly you feel about Kosovo. I agree with you. Hell, I got banned from Michael Totten’s for questioning the fact that there was no genocide–that it was a muslim lie bought by NATO. Bet you’d get banned there too, if you reiterated what you have said here.

  • http://oxfordalliance.blogspot.com/2006/08/free-marketplace-of-ideas.html Tom

    Thanks Kat!

  • http://oxfordalliance.blogspot.com/2006/08/free-marketplace-of-ideas.html Tom

    I do find it disheartening that so many seem to have trouble understanding the link between fighting terrorism in the Balkans and fighting it elsewhere in the world.

    Consider:

    According to the Jerusalem Post, Jews in the Muslim part of Bosnia are already under the rule of the Dhimma by being legally barred from purchasing an apartment if Muslim neighbors vote not to allow an infidel in their midst.

    “Holders of tenant’s tenure for apartments whose formal owners are wakfs [religious endowment] can not buy up those apartments without previous written approval of the apartment’s owner,” the law states, using the Arabic word and not the native Serbo-Croatian to denote a Muslim nontransferable ownership.

    And:

    The Annual Report by the Helsinki Committee for Human Rights in 2004 ridiculed the then director of the Serbia Military-Security Agency, Colonel Momir Stojanovic for stating that “according to intelligence gathered by domestic intelligence services and contacts with security agencies of other countries, in the forthcoming period we may expect a considerable advent of militant Islam and Islamic terrorism in the Western Balkans.”

    In the forthcoming period, in 2005, and to a surprise of many in the West, it was Serbia that arrested the Madrid bombing mastermind.

    The lesson of the surprise, for Washington primarily, is that it is too busy listening to useless scribes like Sonja Biserko of the Helsinki Watch and not enough of the Serbian foot-soldiers, under Belgrade’s control, who know of the Islamic terrorism first hand just like any Jewish spy in the Middle East.

    Perhaps the meeting with Serbian President Boris Tadic with the Romanian counterpart Traian Basescu, one day before Basescu met with George Bush, can convince the embedded Clintonites in Washington, that Serbia is an indispensable friend of the West on matters of Islamic terror, and that independence of Kosovo, opposed by Romania, is an aid to al-Zawahiri and the rest of the Jihadists that masquerade under different names like Hezbullah or the Kosovo Protection Corps.
    http://serbianna.com/blogs/bozinovich/

  • kat

    PS: Tom–I KNOW Eileen is on your side. She is no jihadi ass kisser.

  • Eileen

    Thank, Kat. In fact, any suggestion otherwise is pretty comical ;)

  • http://oxfordalliance.blogspot.com/2006/08/free-marketplace-of-ideas.html Tom

    Eileen writes: Thank, Kat. In fact, any suggestion otherwise is pretty comical.

    Of course!

    Yours sincerely,

    Stuck on Stupid
    Stuck on Serbia
    and any other name you have for me

  • Eileen

    Well sweet cheeks, you’d have to reread the entirety of those threads – particularly your repeated misrepresentations of what I’d written – to understand that special place in my heart you earned.

    In a few situations I see you probably misunderstood…

    As they say, whatevah. This blog’s not about you and me.

  • Eileen

    And Tom, BTW, you misunderstood yet again. When I said “any suggestion otherwise is pretty comical…” referred to the part where Kat said I was no jihadi ass kisser.

    If you stick around for any length of time here, you’ll know why I added that ‘wink’ following my own reply.

  • http://oxfordalliance.blogspot.com/2006/08/free-marketplace-of-ideas.html Tom

    Eilleen writes: Well sweet cheeks, you’d have to reread the entirety of those threads – particularly your repeated misrepresentations of what I’d written

    Great suggestion!

    How about cutting and pasting the evidence of one ‘repeated misrepresentation’ along with your original post to get me started.

  • http://www.digitalstreetjournal.com Jonathan Trenn

    Wait…what’s happening here…are we having PEACE IN OUR TIME? If that’s the case, Eileen, I know this nice Muslim guy I’d like to set you up with…

    And where’s Penny? That sweet Irish lass. And Dr. Mathews? Robert Feinman? They’re missing this.

  • Eileen

    Nah. You can read. So can everyone else here.

    Have a great evening, Infidels!

  • Eileen

    P.S. to Jonathan,

    Well….no need to set me up with anyone at all…. But if he’s apostate, I’m sure he’d be happy to meet me, too.

    :)

  • kat

    According to this guy, he’s an apostate ubless he’s a terrorist.
    http://timblair.net/ee/index.php/weblog/all_munafik_and_kafirs/

  • http://oxfordalliance.blogspot.com/2006/08/slightly-off-topic.html tom

    Eileen writes: Nah. You can read. So can everyone else here.

    Eileen,

    I’ve read through your comments once again, and I don’t think I’ve misrepresented any of your words.

    Tom

  • Eileen

    I’m glad you’ve reread my comments, Tom. Truly.

    Did you reread your own in response to mine? Therein lies the problem.

    Based on a few other posts you’ve written, I’d say we’ll probably *eventually* end up on the same page. Kat knows best.

    Thanks in advance.

  • http://oxfordalliance.blogspot.com/2006/08/free-marketplace-of-ideas.html Tom

    Here’s some news I’ll bet didn’t get much coverage back home(US):

    Yesterday (26 Aug): A grenade attack on a Serb cafe in the ethnically divided Kosovo town of Mitrovica has injured nine people including a British UN policeman. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/5290022.stm

    We are keeping the WOT moral and proportional by fighting terrorist in the ME, yet inciting and protecting them in the Balkans. This keeps our policy balanced.

    More from the Beep:

    “All Serbs, including me, live in constant fear. The UN brings us here on special buses. If Kosovo becomes independent, I’ll pack my things and leave and try to get asylum elsewhere. There’d be no life for me here. I’d look for democracy in Europe.”

    Oliver Ivanovic, 52, is a leading Serb politician, a member of the Kosovo parliament and regarded as a moderate.

    “We have been living in this hotspot since 1999, all the time living under some tension, all the time attacked by Albanians in the south and all the time coming under pressure from the international community.

    “Sometimes we are under the impression internationals are not happy that we stay here. We are the troublemakers. And this does not help our relations with them,” he says.

    Back in Mitrovica, it is no secret that both communities are well-armed and ready for a worst-case scenario.

    “I will do whatever is in my capacity, physically and intellectually, to defend our right to live in peace and dignity and to live freely in our state. I, like most Serbs, will not accept being moved from one state to another,” says Milan Ivanovic, one of north Mitrovica’s most popular politicians.

    K-For recently reopened its base north of Mitrovica and close to the border with Serbia proper. [Kosovo is in Serbia proper, but to acknowledge that would be to undermine our pro-KLA-terrorist propaganda.] Extra UN police have been deployed in the region. All in case it all goes wrong.

    The people of north Mitrovica are waiting for something to happen. And whatever is going to happen, they believe, is not going to be good.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/5235868.stm