Mourning

Just got this email from John Pederson:

Bush ordered flags lowered 6 days after the tsunami for a period of 5 days.
It only took him 1 day to drop them after 9/11. 10 days.
We are now on day 6 of Katrina. His only proclomation this week is that it’s National Prostate Cancer Awareness Month.
Today we’ll drop the flags out of respect. For William Rehquist. 10 days…according to the rules.

But you’ll find no proclamation on Katrina here.

: LATER: A proclamation has now been issued. [Thanks, Chancy]

  • Gene Jarman

    President Bush can’t seem to get anything right. Flying to Hurricane ravaged cities and walking is a “photo op”, being on vacation in Crawford makes him “out of touch”. Now…he didn’t make a flag lowering proclaimation for victims of Katrina! Give it a break! How about asking the mayor of New Orleans why all of the city’s school buses are sitting side by side in floodwaters in their parking lot? Why doesn’t someone ask the Mayor of N.O. why he didn’t follow his own emergency evacuation plan which is clearly posted for all to see on the City of New Orleans website?
    Do we really elect the President to do everything or just to have someone to blame everything on? People are dead from Katrina and people are playing politics. Pleaseeeee Mr. President…make a flag lowering proclaimation so we can see what they’ll blame you for next!

  • http://www.drcookie.blogspot.com JennyD

    I’m with you Gene. This is ridiculous. Jeff, get a grip. You’re running what might be the best discussion about this on the web, but you’re starting to get shrill.

  • Robert

    Saving lives or issuing meangless proclamations. Pick one, Jeff.

    Jeff, I have a lot of respect for you, but you are letting your emotions take over. Unplug for a little while. I suspect you have been at it non-stop for 48 hours now and it is showing. No one is trying to minimize what has happened, but going off the deep end, as illustrated by Ray Nagin, isn’t going to help anyone. And you are better than that.

  • http://spleenville.com/wordpress/ Andrea Harris

    You know, I think one of the reasons we don’t have time for little cosmetic gestures like flag lowering is because there is a mess to clean up, people to resettle, a city to drain, buildings to rebuild, and bodies to find, identify, and bury in our own country this time.

    We’re busy, Jeff.

  • http://whatattitudeproblem.blogs.com/ greg

    Calm down, Jeff. We know you can’t stand Bush. Why don’t you just put it on your masthead and get it over with. Anything for a cheap shot. I thought you were better than that, too, but apparently not.

  • http://http:www.rightnumberone.blogspot.com RightNumberOne

    Yes, that’s just what President Bush should do right now … issue meaningless proclamations while the dead are still floating in New Orleans.

    That way, the New York Times can criticize him for issuing meaningless proclamations while the city is still underwater.

    Not many of your commenters have had much to say in agreement with about the last 20 posts you’ve made.

    Perhaps you are stubbornly clinging to a position that cannot be defended any other way except for meaningless criticisms? Or perhaps, you are just being intentionally provocative.

    I’d encourage you to take a day off from blogging to clear your head.

  • http://www.akkamsrazor.com Ron

    It’s not ridiculous…Bush (“this part of the world”) and Condi are trying to distance themselves from Katrina. Any minute now, the blame will be plopped down solely on the survivors, city, state, and first responders.

    The only thing we ask for Bush to do is lead…and he hasn’t done it yet. He doesn’t even really have to lead, he just has to pretend and make us FEEL like he’s leading. I’d be satisfied with that.

    This flag business shows where his priorities are. They desperately want to have people think that this was a regional, and not a national event, despite the national and international relief efforts, the short- and long-term economic impact, and the alteration of the map and the people of New Orleans for a generation or more. You Bush apologists are worse than Al Qaeda; your lowered expectations for the Federal Government put us all at risk.

  • kat
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  • http://www.akkamsrazor.com Ron

    Jarvis – this is why some leftwing bloggers aren’t happy with you – the Koolaide drinkers hang out here and maybe influence you. You have every right to be outraged, and at the same time, let these watercarriers be Bush’s Baghdad Bob – “All is well, there is no flood, move along, nothing to see here…”

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  • http://http:www.rightnumberone.blogspot.com RightNumberOne

    Jeff,

    A few facts for you:

    15% of New Orleans police officers have just abandoned their posts, according to the New York Times.

    I’ve seen video of where they went – some of them went to Wal Mart to participate in the looting.

    Mary Landrieu, sister of Lt. Governor Mitch Landrieu, and a United States Senator, today on ABC News’ This Week … threatened the President of the United States.

    “”If one person criticizes [our sheriffs], or says one more thing, including the president of the United States, he will hear from me – one more word about it after this show airs and I – I might likely have to punch him – literally.”

    THIS IS THE LEADERSHIP for the State of Louisiana.

    A whiny, incompetent Democrat Mayor.

    A sanctimonious, inept Democrat Governor who refused to authorize the federal government to take over relief efforts.

    An unhinged United States Senator, sister of a ghost.

    Have you heard from the Lt. Governor of Louisiana on CNN?

    He’s a ghost. Nowhere to be found.

    His sister, though, a United States Senator, goes on the airwaves to physically threaten the President.

    I hope the Secret Service has her in chains by now.

    And you want Bush to issue flag-lowering proclamations?

  • chuck

    Flags?

    You can’t be serious, you’re joking, right? Geez, folks are working and all you can do is talk about flags? It’s pathetic.

  • Fred

    Mourn later. Send money to the Red Cross now.

  • Robert

    Ron – apparently you have zero expectations of the state and local government. Have another glass of koolaid.

    Some of us don’t need out hands held – some of us don’t want to “feel better” about it, we want to know exactly what happened and we want it fixed. Apparently you want to feel better and could care less what actually happened.

  • http://www.akkamsrazor.com Ron

    Robert, nice deflection. You want to find out what happened, demand accountability. If not STFU.

  • Robert

    MORE: Chertoff clarifies about what was a surprise about the levees breaking. It was that the storm had already passed without breaking them. The break came after everyone had concluded they’d “dodged a bullet.”

    http://althouse.blogspot.com/2005/09/we-have-to-prepare-country-for-what.html

    Don’t forget that folks. This crisis didn’t start until after the hurricane had made landfall and after everyone, EVERYONE, was breathing a sign of relief that Kartina had turned slightly.

  • Robert

    Oh, now we are telling people to STFU? Thanks for proving my point.

  • chuck

    Another tidbit. When all is said and done, I think Louisiana will be seen as a disaster years in the making, Katrina just pushed it over the edge. Huzzahs for Mississippi, that suffered more and responded better.

  • http://www.akkamsrazor.com Ron

    OK, Robert, way to go with your moral indignation. Tell me, how long did it take to reconvene Congress for Terri Schiavo versus now?

  • Robert

    About as long as it took for you to bring it up in a completely unrelated conversation. Again, with the proving my point.

  • http://www.pedersondesigns.com John Pederson

    I started with the question and the quote.

    I completely agree that there are much more important things right now to worry about than how high the flag is, proclomations, etc. Go save some people.

    Let me offer up two things. On the small, nitpicky side, It only took 1 day for a proclomation after 9/11. Things were much more chaotic at that point. Look close. They even took the extra time to amend the proclomation to extend the period from the 16th of September to the 22nd of September back on 2001.

    Infinately more important, however, is what lowering of the flag is all about. It’s about respect. “By order of the President, the flag shall be flown at half-staff upon the death of principal figures of the United States Government and the Governor of a State, territory, or possession, as a mark of respect to their memory.” Right, it doesn’t change anything. It doesn’t save lives. It doesn’t help the effort to rebuild. It doesn’t raise money. It’s a small, tiny gesture made by the federal government to show respect. They did it the day after 9/11. They did it six days after the tsunami. They haven’t done it yet regarding Katrina.

  • Robert

    It is a fact, do doubt. The spin being applied to it is what is at issue.

  • chuck

    Ron,

    The initial decision to remove the feeding tube was made in May, 1998, timeline
    here. Congress was in session up until March 18, 2005 and was going to take a 17 day recess starting the following Monday. The bill was passed on Saturday, March 19. The two cases have nothing in common. BTW, you could inform yourself on these matters. Your offhand ignorant comments are just a smokescreen hiding an evident disinclination to actually know anything.

  • http://http:www.rightnumberone.blogspot.com RightNumberOne

    Ron,

    There is a flood. And nobody here denies it.

    There are also 250 school buses sitting in a city-owned parking lot in the middle of that flood.

    Do you know why those buses are sitting there? Because Ray Nagin didn’t do his job … that’s why. Because Ray Nagin didn’t use those buses to evacuate the citizens of his city.

    Ray Nagin’s job was to evacuate the poor, homeless and less fortuante from the city of New Orleans … not to send them to a Superdome he knew well ahead of time wasn’t prepared to house them.

    He did the same thing in Hurrican Ivan last year.

    The city’s Hurricane Disaster Plan makes it quite clear that the Mayor of New Orleans is responsible for the thousands of deaths we will see as soon as they pump out all of that water. It is he who was supposed to evacuate the downtrodden – the poorest of his city.

    If he has any decency … he will slink away from New Orleans while the cameras are pointed elsewhere and never return.

    Blame is going to be placed. And it’s going to be placed clearly where it lies – with Ray Nagin and Kathern Blanco and the rest of the corrupt Democratic Party of Louisiana.

    One day soon, there will be a detailed accounting of where all the levee money went. As a lifelong resident of the state of Louisiana, I have no doubt what it will show.

    The only thing left to debate will be the length of the prison sentences handed out for those who so grossly and negligently failed their poorest and neediest citizens.

  • http://www.beatcanvas.com Brett Rogers

    Jeff’s point, however cosmetic, gets to the heart of the overall tardy response the feds have had to this. How many “Sorry I’m late” responses will there be before the president figures it out? It takes 1 minute to make such a proclamation and have those in Washington make it happen. Symbolic, yes, but it will be balanced against other disasters and leave people wondering why this doesn’t rate the same response.

    I voted twice for Bush, supported (and support) the war, think that Rumsfeld and Rove should not have resigned, but I’m pretty disgusted with the response from Bush’s administration. Mike Brown (head of FEMA) ought to be fired, or pushed deep into the background.

    I don’t think Jeff’s point is overreactive. As a guy who volunteered in Bush’s re-election campaign, I share his reaction.

  • http://robertdfeinman.com/society Robert Feinman

    Could someone point me towards the discussions of where we are going to relocate 250,000 people for the next six months to two years?

    I realize there are no qualifications necessary to be a “pundit” but if all you can think to do his point fingers perhaps you should just step aside and maybe some people with ideas or first hand information will step forward.

    There seems to have been (and apparently continues to be) enough incompetence to go around. We have turned our school system into a second rate program compared with the rest of the developed world over the past 30 years. The graduates of that training are now running the country.
    Things like risk assessment are beyond them. That’s why we are stockpiling smallpox and anthrax vaccines instead of working on prevention for the predicted bird flu epidemic.
    If you want to see unpreparedness read up on that. Estimates are 20 – 40 MILLION deaths.

    The immediate issue is housing, jobs, schools and support infrastructure for the displaced. Where are the ideas, let alone the acts?
    How about tent cities, or use of military bases?
    How about abandoned housing in dying midwest towns?

    I expect this all to be ignored as the cheap shots resume.
    Over to you…

  • http://spleenville.com/wordpress/ Andrea Harris

    They weren’t late. Life isn’t like tv. The local and state government of Louisiana failed. The powers of the fed to make the country’s boo-boos better is limited — that’s why the states and municipalities are supposed to do their part. Mississippi’s and Alabama’s did — Louisiana’s didn’t. Maybe it wasn’t entirely the mayor’s and the governor’s fault — the problems in that state go back far into the past, and are more than one administration can fix.

    Look. I’ve been through three hurricanes in the past year. I’ve been through Andrew. There is no easy fix. People will not get all better right away. People in government — even Bush — are only human, and can only do so much. Your complaints — and with all due respect, Mr. Pederson, your nitpicking over tiny details of etiquette — are not constructive.

  • chuck

    Robert Feinman,

    …instead of working on prevention for the predicted bird flu epidemic.

    Yes, I’m waiting for your suggestions. Normal flu vaccines are made by inoculating chicken eggs. Unfortunately, the bird flu kills the embryo, so it doesn’t work. I believe recent advances have been made, but they are not in production, and, in any case, the vaccines can not be made years in advance because the flu mutates so rapidly, the lead time is only a matter of months. Add to this that the flu is spread by migrating birds, so it is hard to isolate. And speaking of vaccine production, government contracting in the 90’s drove producers out of business — vaccine production is at best risky and low return — so we aren’t in such a good position there. Likewise, public health at the local level has been underfunded for decades and folks aren’t eager to give over their personal freedom to the stringent measures quarantine, or even contact tracing of STDs, requires.

    So yes, there is another potential disaster in waiting. Like Louisiana, it will be a product of years of neglect and unforseen consequence. So, again, what do you propose we do?

  • http://flamingflivvers.blogspot.com/ Carson Fire

    All I can do is repeat what I just said in another thread: if I were one of the survivors in the midst of still trying to survive, I think I might actually be disheartened by an early lowering of the flags. You do that when the death total is tallied, not before. This isn’t even a matter of there being more important concerns: it’s the wrong freaking time!

    The criticism here, like much of the political backbiting, is way out of line. There will be plenty of time to grieve later.

  • http://www.akkamsrazor.com Ron

    Waaahhhh…Everyone is blaming the president….waaaaahhhh!!!! It’s the victims fault!!! Waaaaaahhhhhhh!!! Why does everyone pick on the party that controls all three branches of government!! Waaaaahhhhhh!!!

    Gimme a break.

  • Robert

    Excellent point Carson.

  • http://www.beatcanvas.com Brett Rogers

    Carson, I gotta disagree. If I were a victim in the midst of this, I would want to know that I have the government’s full attention and seriousness. If others got a different treatment than I’m receiving, and if the general perception is that the feds are lacking in response, then slights like this only exaccerbate the impression that’s already taken hold.

    If you’re waiting until the toll is tallied before the flags are lowered, we’ll wait until 2006.

    The president has proven himself capable of handling many tasks at once. He can do this too. But he does need to show that his administration is up to the many tasks on this front. What’s sad is that he’ll have little help from the ineptitude of the local and state officials. But it’s the task he has, regardless of the performance of others.

  • Jeff McKean

    Right now the loss of life from Katrina is undetermined, although any loss is still too many. The tsunami, even after a few hours, was determined to be in the tens of thousands (and ultimately much more.) 9/11 stands on its own merits.

    There was no advance notice for either the tsunami nor 9/11. We knew this was coming. There is plenty of blame to go around but it starts with the local and state governments. If there is fault to be laid with the the feds, it should start with their reluctance to take over from local government earlier.

  • http://www.akkamsrazor.com Ron

    http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/theme_home2.jsp

    In the event of a terrorist attack, natural disaster or other large-scale emergency, the Department of Homeland Security will assume primary responsibility on March 1st for ensuring that emergency response professionals are prepared for any situation. This will entail providing a coordinated, comprehensive federal response to any large-scale crisis and mounting a swift and effective recovery effort. The new Department will also prioritize the important issue of citizen preparedness. Educating America’s families on how best to prepare their homes for a disaster and tips for citizens on how to respond in a crisis will be given special attention at DHS.

  • Robert

    National Response Plan

    The National Response Plan is an all-discipline, all-hazards plan that establishes a single, comprehensive framework for the management of domestic incidents. It provides the structure and mechanisms for the coordination of Federal support to State, local, and tribal incident managers and for exercising direct Federal authorities and responsibilities. The NRP assists in the important homeland security mission of preventing terrorist attacks within the United States; reducing the vulnerability to all natural and man-made hazards; and minimizing the damage and assisting in the recovery from any type of incident that occurs.

    http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/display?theme=14

    The devil is always in the details Ron.

  • klarkin

    With respect to plans for the displaced residents, it is happening here in NW Louisiana. I don’t know why it hasn’t made the news. I’m sure it is happening all over.

    We’re having a job fair this week, and tent cities, and old military bases are being used. Public and private schools have opened up and the local SSA is cutting checks for those who normally receive them. The number of volunteers average one per ten evacuees.

    While I’m sure the evacuees would much rather be in their intact homes, the local population has opened their arms, hearts, and checkbooks to them.

  • John Robb

    Bush continues to show that he is totally out of touch with America. He fiddled and people died (and continue to die).

  • chuck

    Klarkin,

    Thanks for the update. Sounds like folks are getting to work and doing good things. This is what the news coverage should be about: encouraging the good and giving kudos where they are deserved.

  • chuck

    Jeez, Rob, can you stop fiddling for a bit.

  • Eileen

    Thank God my sister and her family made it out safely from NO.

    Now, if I was one of those hundreds of thousands who has not yet been able to connect with my loved ones to even know if they’re alive, I doubt seeing a flag at half mast would provide much ‘comfort’ or make me feel any better.

    Come On. Can we discuss something helpful and hopeful around here?

    How about creating mechanisms to connect people for taking survivors into their homes – perhaps with a stipend from the gov to help with room and board, or to connect people for offering and finding jobs?

    Come on JJ and the blogosphere, let’s see (more of) your stuff – ala connecting the missing..

  • Gray

    ‘THIS IS THE LEADERSHIP for the State of Louisiana.
    A whiny, incompetent Democrat Mayor.
    A sanctimonious, inept Democrat Governor who refused to authorize the federal government to take over relief efforts.
    An unhinged United States Senator, sister of a ghost.’

    Now this is deep, Rightnumberone. You’re mocking Nagin, Blanco and Landrieu for showing their strained nerves in public after they have been deserted by the federal authorities. Of course, you forget to mention that FEMA failed to fulfill it’s duty, creating the situation you are now joking about. Btw, you forget to mention several other officials who were critizising the efforts of the feds. In your opinion, all officials in charge in Louisisana failed but FEMA didn’t do anything wrong?
    I guess the public has another perception.
    To say it with the words of Kecin Drum:
    ‘I don’t have much doubt that there’s plenty of blame to go around on the subject of Hurricane Katrina, but the plain truth is that a disaster like this will always overwhelm state and local authorities no matter what. That’s why we have FEMA.’

    And still nobody here answered one of the main questions: Bush, Brown and Chertoff told the media that ‘nobody anticipated the breach of the levees’.
    If this statement is correct, how can you blame Nagin and Blanco?
    If this is wrong, do you think Bush, Brown and Chertoff lied?

  • John

    Rob you’re asking Bush toi have declared Blanco and Nagin before the fact to be incompetent to handle the relief efforts for Hurricane Katrina that governors and mayors in other states were deemed competent to handle during the 2004 hurricane season. While the government can userpt the power of state and local officials to supervise evacuation and mobilization efforts when a severe storm is approaching, to do so beforehand, when no one could say whether or not Nagin and Blanco had failed to do enough pre-hurricane preparation, would have been unprecendented.

    Monday Morning quarterbacking is a staple of life in America, but what would have happened if Bush actually had done this, and Katrina had then moved towards Texas or the Florida Panhandle? “Bush seizes power from Louisana Democratic officials” would have been the headline, and we would have been inundated by claims that Bush was using the Patriot Act and DHS trying to turn the country into a police state.

  • Chancy

    It is so obvious from the posts here and from the excuses and finger pointing by the Bush administration toward everyone but themselves that desperation has set in among those higher ups who must know but deny that the buck stops with them. And all this before even the body bags have arrived at the makeshift mourges which will total in the high thousands.

    Lack of leadership at the highest levels spells incompetence and no number of clever excuses will erase that fact.

    George Will, a conservative Republican said today on ABC ” ThisWeek” that this could be Gerorge W Bush’s Iran Countra. Reagan had his Iran Contra which showed a lack of hands on leadership.

    Same goes for Bush in this fuck up.

  • ed

    If Bush wanted to help he could stay in Washington and save all the fuel for the planes and vehicles in his photo-op machine. He could tell the security people already on the ground in LA to change their mission to helping with recovery rather than disrupting it preparing for photo-ops. He could also offer to house a few families at his ranch. You know there have to dozens of beds there for all the security people, assistant deputy executive assistants, etc. A few campaign contributors could donate food to feed them while they are on the ranch.

  • Gray

    ‘George Will, a conservative Republican said today on ABC ” ThisWeek” that this could be Gerorge W Bush’s Iran Countra.’
    100% ack, Chancy.
    While this utter failure of FEMA is to be blamed on Michael Brown and Michael Chertoff in the first place, it was GWB who appointed them and who crippled FEMA with a failed reform. The buck stops at the White House.

  • Gray

    And still nobody here answered one of the main questions: Bush, Brown and Chertoff told the media that ‘nobody anticipated the breach of the levees’.
    If this statement is correct, how can you blame Nagin and Blanco?
    If this is wrong, do you think Bush, Brown and Chertoff lied?

  • http://http:www.rightnumberone.blogspot.com RightNumberOne

    Ron,

    I can’t wait to have this debate with you.

    Here is the official Hurricane Evacuation Plan for New Orelans:

    “Authority to issue evacuations of elements of the population is vested in the Mayor. By Executive Order, the chief elected official, the Mayor of the City of New Orleans, has the authority to order the evacuation of residents threatened by an approaching hurricane.

    Evacuation procedures for special needs persons with either physical or mental handicaps, including registration of disabled persons, is covered in the SOP for Evacuation of Special Needs Persons.”

    Ray Nagin and the rest of the corrupt Democratic Party in New Orleans and in Louisiana have no political future.

    You can try to pull the wool over the people of Louisiana’s eyes, but they are smarter than you blue staters.

    They know who their leaders are. They’ve watched with disgust as they’ve gotten on television to bitch and whine about how nobody will come do their jobs for them.

    These people will soon be relieved of their frustrations – the people of Louisiana are going to have them prosecuted.

  • http://http:www.rightnumberone.blogspot.com RightNumberOne

    Gray,

    Stripped of all context, I guess you would have a point.

    However, the comments made about the levy collapsing in New Orleans were made in the context of the day after the hurricane, when they were still intact, and everyone believed they would stay intact.

    So, just because someone says that the levy collapse was “unexpected” doesn’t relieve the Mayor New Orleans from his duty to have evacuated the poor and infirm from New Orleans BEFORE THE HURRICANE ever made landfall.

    He was urged to do this and did not.

    The Mayor, and the Governor, of the state of Louisiana, have poor, black blood on their hands. I have no doubt that had the threatened population been white political donors, they would have been evacuated last Thursday.

    Nagin and Blanco’s inaction, their inability, their unwillingness to implement their own hurricane evacuation plans, written LONG BEFORE this hurricane, resulted in the deaths of thousands of innocent poor, black people.

    And they deserve all the scorn we, former and current residents of Louisiana, intend to heap on them.

  • John

    Here’s the crux of the problem from Sunday’s Washington Post. Considering how much trouble the federal officials are having five days after the hurricane taking over control of operations normally delegated to state and local officials, just imagine what the outcry would have been if the Bush Administration had tried to do this pro-actively, while Kartina was still in the Gulf and the effects of the failure to act were still unknown:

    Behind the scenes, a power struggle emerged, as federal officials tried to wrest authority from Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco (D). Shortly before midnight Friday, the Bush administration sent her a proposed legal memorandum asking her to request a federal takeover of the evacuation of New Orleans, a source within the state’s emergency operations center said Saturday.

    The administration sought unified control over all local police and state National Guard units reporting to the governor. Louisiana officials rejected the request after talks throughout the night, concerned that such a move would be comparable to a federal declaration of martial law. Some officials in the state suspected a political motive behind the request. “Quite frankly, if they’d been able to pull off taking it away from the locals, they then could have blamed everything on the locals,” said the source, who does not have the authority to speak publicly.

    A senior administration official said that Bush has clear legal authority to federalize National Guard units to quell civil disturbances under the Insurrection Act and will continue to try to unify the chains of command that are split among the president, the Louisiana governor and the New Orleans mayor.

    Louisiana did not reach out to a multi-state mutual aid compact for assistance until Wednesday, three state and federal officials said. As of Saturday, Blanco still had not declared a state of emergency, the senior Bush official said.

    “The federal government stands ready to work with state and local officials to secure New Orleans and the state of Louisiana,” White House spokesman Dan Bartlett said. “The president will not let any form of bureaucracy get in the way of protecting the citizens of Louisiana.”

    Blanco made two moves Saturday that protected her independence from the federal government: She created a philanthropic fund for the state’s victims and hired James Lee Witt, Federal Emergency Management Agency director in the Clinton administration, to advise her on the relief effort.

    Bush, who has been criticized, even by supporters, for the delayed response to the disaster, used his weekly radio address to put responsibility for the failure on lower levels of government. The magnitude of the crisis “has created tremendous problems that have strained state and local capabilities,” he said. “The result is that many of our citizens simply are not getting the help they need, especially in New Orleans. And that is unacceptable.”

    In a Washington briefing, Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff said one reason federal assets were not used more quickly was “because our constitutional system really places the primary authority in each state with the governor.”

    Chertoff planned to fly overnight to the New Orleans area to take charge of deploying the expanded federal and military assets for several days, he said. He said he has “full confidence” in FEMA Director Michael D. Brown, the DHS undersecretary and federal officer in charge of the Katrina response.

    Brown, a frequent target of New Orleans Mayor C. Ray Nagin’s wrath, said Saturday that “the mayor can order an evacuation and try to evacuate the city, but if the mayor does not have the resources to get the poor, elderly, the disabled, those who cannot, out, or if he does not even have police capacity to enforce the mandatory evacuation, to make people leave, then you end up with the kind of situation we have right now in New Orleans.”

    New Orleans City Council President Oliver Thomas acknowledged that the city was surprised by the number of refugees left behind, but he said FEMA should have been prepared to assist.

    There’s stuff for everyone here, and FEMA certainly is at fault for relaxing Monday night, after the storm had passed but before the levees began to collapse. But attacking the feds for not taking over the situation on Aug. 28, when the governor still doesn’t want to give them control on Sept. 4, is really 20-20 hindsight at its worst.

  • billg

    Ok, then. When the salute to Rehnquist is over, why don’t we all designate our own week to lower our flags to honor those who Katrina killed?

    Let the president go his own way. Let’s pick the dates, get our own flags ready, and tell the politicians we want all their flags lowered, too. Starting at the White House.

    Get the word out.

  • http://http:www.rightnumberone.blogspot.com RightNumberOne

    John,

    The people here blaming FEMA, an organization which RESPONDS to the aftermath of natural disasters such as this hurricane, are unmoved by mere facts.

    The fact that the city has an evacuation plan that was ignored and that city and state officials refused to allow the federal government to do the job they were criminally negligent in failing to do, is of no concern to them.

    They have one goal: to somehow blame the federal government.

    Appeals to the facts are wasted on them.

  • http://www.akkamsrazor.com Ron

    John, good backstory. There is blame to be shared…and EVERYONE should take their beatings; no scapegoats, no obstruction.

  • BC

    RightNumberOne:
    “Ron,

    There is a flood. And nobody here denies it.”

    Except the Bush Administration for 2 1/2 days of his precious vacation.

    “There are also 250 school buses sitting in a city-owned parking lot in the middle of that flood.
    Do you know why those buses are sitting there? Because Ray Nagin didn’t do his job … that’s why. Because Ray Nagin didn’t use those buses to evacuate the citizens of his city.”

    Gee, the drivers, having been employed, and therfore, with the means of evacuation, nust have, uh, evacuated.

    “Ray Nagin’s job was to evacuate the poor, homeless and less fortuante from the city of New Orleans … not to send them to a Superdome he knew well ahead of time wasn’t prepared to house them.

    He did the same thing in Hurrican Ivan last year.

    The city’s Hurricane Disaster Plan makes it quite clear that the Mayor of New Orleans is responsible for the thousands of deaths we will see as soon as they pump out all of that water. It is he who was supposed to evacuate the downtrodden – the poorest of his city.”

    “If he has any decency … he will slink away from New Orleans while the cameras are pointed elsewhere and never return.”

    He was publicly begging for help on Tuesday (before the “anarchy” started). Where was Bush, Chertoff, Brown, Rice, Cheney, 1/3 of the National guard and 1/2 of it’s equipment? Strumin’ a guitar? Golfing? Talking to a crowd of syncophants? Buying $3000 shoes? He did far better than the administration, when it is documented on the WH website that the WH had taken the primary respnsibility for New Orleans safety on the Saturday before.
    http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/08/20050827-1.html

    Saturday evening and Sunday would have been the day the Bush flew back to DC and rounded up his HS and FEMA personnel and co-ordinated with what was left of the LNG and initiated a military style evacuation with bullhorns in the streets. A mayor cannot organize at that level with local law enforcement. I would speculate the mayor and others thought of the school buses, but reverted to the Dome under the assumtion that it would be quicker and FEMA, NG, Chertoff, Brown and President would be there the next day.

    “Blame is going to be placed. And it’s going to be placed clearly where it lies – with Ray Nagin and Kathern Blanco and the rest of the corrupt Democratic Party of Louisiana.”

    Think again. Read the documents. Blame will fall on local officials only because the selfish and greedy are in control.

    “One day soon, there will be a detailed accounting of where all the levee money went. As a lifelong resident of the state of Louisiana, I have no doubt what it will show.”

    It went to Iraq and Halliburton, numnut. Read the documents that are widely available.

    “The only thing left to debate will be the length of the prison sentences handed out for those who so grossly and negligently failed their poorest and neediest citizens. ”

    Amen to that, brother!

  • chuck

    RightNumberOne,

    These people will soon be relieved of their frustrations – the people of Louisiana are going to have them prosecuted.

    Two questions:

    1) Are you in Louisiana right now?
    2) Are people talking about prosecution?

  • BC

    I will Agree that worrying about Flag half staffing is a little beside the point right now. Perhaps in a few months. A week of rememberance. Wait until we know how many thousands have died.

  • Gray

    ‘So, just because someone says that the levy collapse was “unexpected” doesn’t relieve the Mayor New Orleans from his duty to have evacuated the poor and infirm from New Orleans BEFORE THE HURRICANE ever made landfall.’

    Rightnumberone, I have no problem with this statement. In fact, this is my opinion, 2. But this logic implies that Brown and Chertoff can’t be relieved from their obligation to prepare for a breach of the levees, to. ‘Michael D. Brown, FEMA’s director, offered an emphatic defense of the federal response, saying that his agency prepared for the storm but that the widespread, unexpected flooding kept rescuers out of the city.’ If Nagin as a mayor should have prepared for the flooding, Brown as the head of the fed agency for emergency measures should have been even more aware to get ready for this worst case. His statements show that he didn’t take this into account. So he failed the president and the nation.

    See that you can’t have it both ways, rightnumberone? You can’t put the blame on Nagin and Blanco alone and at the same time spare Brown.
    They all made serious mistakes. Question is, whose mistakes where the gravest.

  • http://http:www.rightnumberone.blogspot.com RightNumberOne

    Wow BC,

    You proved my point. Ray Nagin was publically begging for help on Tuesday when he should have evacuated the poor, infirm black people of New Orleans on his 255 buses last Thursday … you know, before the Hurricane hit.

    After all, the New Orleans Hurricane Evacuation Plan gives him the authority, and the obilgation, to do just that.

    My problem with Ray Nagin and Kathleen Blanco is that on Tuesday, they were both publically begging for help; and that the previous Tuesday, they should have been doing their jobs.

    If Ray Nagin had done his job, I’d be saluting him today for saving all those lives.

    Instead, he’s responsible for all those dead. Hopefully, he will soon be relieved of his need to publically beg for someone else to do his job.

    Hopefully, he’ll soon be in prison for negligent homicide.

  • Gray

    One serious question is, could Nagin or Blanco have used force to evacuate citizen against their will? Aside from the fact that this smells of dictatorship and is totally unamerican, afaik a declaration of martial law prior to a possible natural desaster is without precedent. And there seem to be some juridicial problems involved, since there is no article for martial law in the law of La. Would something like that have been possible?

  • BC

    So you think Bush and FEMA’s 2 1/2 day delay, for the sake of Vaca, Guitar Shoes, Etc. is perfectly OK? You didn’t address a single one of these points. Defend your boy in the Whitehouse. C’mom….

  • http://http:www.rightnumberone.blogspot.com RightNumberOne

    Chuck,

    I am a lifelong resident of Louisiana, currently displaced, but well aware of the corrupt and incompetent nature of the Democratic party in my home state.

    Most of the people in Louisiana are too busy right now taking care of those the Mayor of New Orleans and the Governor of Louisiana failed to worry about what price those two will pay for their negligence.

    But that day is coming.

    The people of Louisiana aren’t hoodwinkable the way New York talking head pundits are. They know who their leaders are.

    But they are talking about how embarassed they are every time one Nagin and Blanco appear on television begging for someone else to do something.

    They remember 9-11. They remember Rudy Guiliani and how he guided his city through one of the worst attacks on this country in its history.

    They don’t remember Rudy Guiliani holding news conferences to bitch and moan about how nobody will help him. They don’t remember Rudy Guiliani getting on national television and demanding that someone else “get up off their ass” and do something.

    They wish they had a Rudy Guiliani leading them now.

  • http://cellar.org/iotd.php Undertoad

    “Gee, the drivers, having been employed, and therfore, with the means of evacuation, nust have, uh, evacuated.”

    If the drivers evacuated, then nobody told them they were essential personnel. So either there wasn’t a plan, or the plan wasn’t executed, right?

    On Fark a correspondent from N.O. noted that the pumps in certain neighborhoods were not operating on day one. It’s not that these particular pumps were broken, but these were pumps that had to be manned, and the operators evacuated.

    If the pump operates evacuated, then certainly nobody told them they were essential personnel. If the pumps had to run without operators, they should have had the controls to do that.

    It really starts to sound like there wasn’t a plan.

  • BC

    “They don’t remember Rudy Guiliani holding news conferences to bitch and moan about how nobody will help him. They don’t remember Rudy Guiliani getting on national television and demanding that someone else “get up off their ass” and do something.”

    Thats because the Feds were right on it. And nobody was waiting for life and death a day after the fact. Everyone on 9/11 was killed fast.

    2 1/2 days, RightNumberOne. 2 1/2 days! I’m sorry about your corrupt local Government. As if none else are. Swartzenegger, Coingate. Take your pick. I’m asking you what you think of the Federal Response.

  • http://http:www.rightnumberone.blogspot.com RightNumberOne

    Gray,

    Nobody is saying that Ray Nagin should have brandished a gun and ordered everybody to leave town. That’s not what the evacuation plan says that he should do.

    It says that when he orders a mandatory evacuation, he must consider that many people in his state lack the means or the ability to mandatorily evacuate.

    The plan predicts this. The plan accounts for it and expects it.

    The plan says that he should commandeer all the city buses and school buses and provide these as a means of allowing those people to obey the mandatory evacuation order.

    You know, just in case the levee’s, which were designed to withstand the force of a Category 3 hurricane, don’t hold up to a Category 4 or 5 hurricane.

    It’s all there in the city’s Hurricane Evacuation Plan.

    Nagin was urged to use the buses.

    He refused to.

    FYI: Here is the link to the city’s Hurricane Emergency Preparedness Plan.

    Ironically, it’s still up on the web should Ray Nagin ever care to read it:

    http://www.cityofno.com/portal.aspx?portal=46&tabid=26

  • Gray

    ‘Ray Nagin was publically begging for help on Tuesday when he should have evacuated the poor, infirm black people of New Orleans on his 255 buses last Thursday … you know, before the Hurricane hit.’

    Get your facts straight. The hurricane warning was on friday. Besides, 255 busses could have evacuated about 15000 inhabitants, but where should Nagin have brought them? Where was a place that could offer shelter, food, water and medical support for all of his poor, disabled and elderly citizen? The busses would have had to make several tours to transport all 100000 who hadn’t left the city, making the timetable of this operation extremely tight. But again, where would that monster shelter have been? Nagin and Blanco don’t have the authority to organize an evacuation camp in a neighboring state. This is where FEMA is responsible, if they had taken this possibility into account it would have been possible to plan and organize this. It would have saved countless lives.

  • http://http:www.rightnumberone.blogspot.com RightNumberOne

    BC,

    The problem you are having is that you are concerned about the federal RESPONSE to this disaster.

    That’s the problem with most liberals. All they can seem to do is bitch about the quality of the work everyone else is doing.

    The federal government had no power to order an evacuation of New Orleans; but Ray Nagin did have that power. And he exercised it. He ordered a mandatory evacuation of the city (at the urging of President Bush).

    He then left the defenseless poor and infirm black people of his city to drown. He rode out the storm in Baton Rouge.

    I think having 40,000 troops in New Orleans 2 1/2 days later is a pretty good response to the ineptitude of Ray Nagin and Kathleen Blanco, and the New Orleans police department, whose officers were too busy participating in looting the Wal Mart to actually, you know, save people.

    Nagin and especially Blanco did everything in their power to STOP the federal government from taking over (as the Washington Post reported above).

    And because of that, thousands of people are dead.

  • Doug Gregory

    My dog has the runs and I blame Bush. I don’t know why I blame him. It just seems to be the thing to do. By the way, I watch alot of network television.

  • Gray

    Switch off the TV and get some medical help, Doug.

  • http://http:www.rightnumberone.blogspot.com RightNumberOne

    Ray,

    I’m pretty sure I have my facts straight.

    Hurricane Katrina made landfall at Grand Isle Louisiana on Monday, August 29. It was classified as a Category 5 hurricane, the most powerful known to man, on Sunday, August 28. Just prior to it having been declared a Category 5 hurricane, it was a Category 4 hurricane. And for many hours before that, it was a Category 3 Hurricane directly aiming at New Orleans.

    Ray Nagin ordered a mandatory evacuation of the city of New Orleans on Sunday, August 28, at the urging of President Bush and other federal officials. He resisted that order until then.

    Once he made that mandatory evacuation order, he was obligated to evacuate the infirm and poor, as is clearly written in the city’s Hurricane Evacuation Plan.

    He waited to long to order the evacuation.

    Ray waited … and thousands died.

  • BC

    I read the NO emergency plan at http://www.cityofno.com/portal.aspx?portal=46&tabid=26

    The word Flood apears twice. In regard to participation in the Flood Insurance Program. The Emergency Planning does not allow for Levy break and flooding. Everyone forsaw the breaking of the Levy in this type of storm. Nobody, locally planned for it because nobody locally could have physically initiated the plan! Thus it becomes A Federal responsibility! Where were the for 2 1/2 days?

  • BC

    Who said I was Liberal?

  • http://http:www.rightnumberone.blogspot.com RightNumberOne

    And on your other point:

    255 school buses each carrying 50 people can get to the Cajun Dome in Lafayette in 2 hours. (Of course, Ray had many, many more buses at his disposal. This number is parked in ONE LOT.)

    Using just these school buses, one can empty the city of 200,000 people in 26 hours; if that is your goal, without even comandeering the 300 municipal buses that are now also in the flood.

  • BC

    Not 2 1/2 days for the National Guard. 2 1/2 days for The administration to act. That is what I want Explained.

  • http://http:www.rightnumberone.blogspot.com RightNumberOne

    Oh, I see BC

    So, because you see the word flood only twice, then this plan could not have possibly been useful.

    It is a Hurricane Evacuation Plan … the official plan for the city of New Orleans.

    Ray Nagin didn’t order a mandatory evacuation of New Orleans because there was a flood, but he knew one was coming.

    He’s quoted in this CNN article saying so:

    “NEW ORLEANS, Louisiana (CNN) — New Orleans braced for a catastrophic blow from Hurricane Katrina overnight, as forecasters predicted the Category 5 storm could drive a wall of water over the city’s levees.

    New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin declared a state of emergency Sunday and ordered a mandatory evacuation of the city. (Watch video of mayor’s announcement)

    “This is a threat that we’ve never faced before,” Nagin said. “If we galvanize and gather around each other, I’m sure we will get through this.”

    Gathering around each other was exactly the WRONG THING. The Hurricane Plan doesn’t say “let’s everyone gather around each other and hug and then everything will be better.”

    It says to evacuate the city.

  • http://http:www.rightnumberone.blogspot.com RightNumberOne
  • Gray

    ‘He then left the defenseless poor and infirm black people of his city to drown. He rode out the storm in Baton Rouge.’

    Rightnumberone, that’s not correct. Many of those people were gathering in one of the hurricane shelters. Afaik, of the NO citizen nobody did drown until after monday. Even then, there could have been a happy end when all the available resources had been used to prevent the flooding. When the promised federal help in repairing the breeches didn’t materialize, Nagin ordered all citizen to leave immediately because a flooding was inevitable. Again, he received no federal support, a clear violation of the defined duties of FEMA. Of course, if the busdrivers would have been available, the 250 busses would have been helpful. This was a serious mistake of Nagin, but it’s also true that he was left alone by FEMA, as became clear in his TV beggings. One way or the other, the city busses wouldn’t have been sufficient to transport all maybe 100000 people who were in harm’s way. This desaster was too huge for city and state resources, federal support was indispensable, but the cavalry arrived too late.

  • http://http:www.rightnumberone.blogspot.com RightNumberOne

    BC,

    The reason you’re confused is that you actually believe that it took 2 1/2 days for the federal government to act.

    It didn’t.

    The Federal Government was acting LONG BEFORE the storm ever hit; trying to get Ray Nagin to evacuate the city. It acted immeidately after the storm to the affected areas – which were NOT New Orleans, but rather Mississippi and Alabama.

    You don’t know this because CNN hasn’t told you. But that doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.

    Ray Nagin refused to properly evacuate his city.

    And because he refused to act according to a well-established plan before the storm, many, many poor black people in his city died because of his negligence.

  • http://http:www.rightnumberone.blogspot.com RightNumberOne

    Gray,

    Your facts are incorrect.

    Ray Nagin knew a flood was coming. See the CNN story where he’s quoted saying so.

    Once the levee was breached, there was no stopping the flood. Lake Pontchartrain is the largest salt-water lake in the world. No human effort could have prevented the flood once the levee system failed.

    And it failed in exactly the way that it was predicted to fail many, many years ago. Everyone in Louisiana knew it WOULD fail. It was DESIGNED to fail if a Category 4 hurricane hit.

    The levee system was designed to contain the storm surge of a Category 3 hurricane. Everyone who has ever lived in Louisiana knows this. Ray Nagin knew it, and that’s why he ordered a mandatory evacuation of the city.

    Rather than bus out the old, infirm and poor residents … he told them to go to the Superdome, knowing full well there was no food there, no water there, no electricity there and no help there.

    He’s artfully crying to the cameras now to deflect his criminal negligence.

  • Gray

    ‘Ray,
    I’m pretty sure I have my facts straight.’
    The name is Gray, Brightnumberone, and the warning became public on friday, not thursday. If you have other info, post a link pls.

  • Gray

    ‘Ray Nagin knew a flood was coming. See the CNN story where he’s quoted saying so.’
    Read your ‘evidence’ again. He was taking into account that the hurricanes waves would top the levees, not breach them. Th topping would have flooded the area for quite less than one story, and the pumps would have handled that in relatively short time. The breach did open the city to the waters of lake pontchartrain, leaving the pumps worthless, which was the deadly blow to the city. And remember: Bush, Brown and Chertoff said that nobody did anticipate a BREACHING of the levees.

  • http://http:www.rightnumberone.blogspot.com RightNumberOne

    Gray,

    Sorry for the mistyping your name. I’ve gotten most of the other words correct.

    And incidently, in this thread, I’ve linked to many, many external sources of information. I do not base my opinions on mere speculation.

    You have not linked to one external source in all of your bombast.

    And since this discussion has devolved into complaints about my typing, I’ll leave you to debate this topic alone.

  • BC

    “Using just these school buses, one can empty the city of 200,000 people in 26 hours; if that is your goal, without even comandeering the 300 municipal buses that are now also in the flood.”

    All the other evacuees would, of course, clear the roads for the 13 cycles required. That would Require a then no-show, severly-reduced-anyway NG, wouldn’t it.

    “I think having 40,000 troops in New Orleans 2 1/2 days later is a pretty good response”

    That’s an outright lie. National guard was mobilized from other states on that day because FEMA had just woken up. How could there be 40000 in NO on Thursday? There were less than 3000 NG there on Thursday. Are you kidding? FEMA should have mobilized them, at least, by Sunday-before-the-storm. I knew the the flooding and loss of life was going to be enormous Sunday morning, when I saw the Radar and read back issues of the Times Picaune about the FEDERAL levy and pumping projects funding being cut in half by a REPUBLICAN congress to help pay for a Shia governemnt in Iraq. I could run Fema fer gosh sakes! My god the Administration appoligists are thicker than I ever imagined!

  • http://robertdfeinman.com/society Robert Feinman

    Someone emailed me with the suggestion to use Governor’s Island in New York Harbor. This is an excellent idea!

    This is an empty Coast Guard base that could house 10-20 thousand people.
    It has a school, church, recreational facility, officer housing in private homes and many apartment buildings that were used for enlisted personnel.
    There is an operating ferry that takes five minutes to get to Manhattan.
    The base could be made usable in short order.
    I took a tour last year, you can see some pictures I took on my web site, if you wish to judge for yourself:

    http://robertdfeinman.com

    That’s what I mean about brainstorming instead of finger pointing.

  • Gray

    ‘And it failed in exactly the way that it was predicted to fail many, many years ago. Everyone in Louisiana knew it WOULD fail. It was DESIGNED to fail if a Category 4 hurricane hit.’

    Sry, nonsense. Nobody knew it would fail, some experts warned of a possible danger. That’s no certainty. The levees were designed to withstand a lvl 3 hurrivane. This is not logically equivalent to the statement that they were designed to fail lvl 4. They could have resisted lvl 4, but it was not in their specs. In fact, most of them stood up to the waves, except the vulnerable draining chanels. Even they could have held if the feds wouldn’t have slashed the necessary funds for maintenance.
    And, what are you talkin about, Bush, Brown and Chertoff said that nobody did anticipate a BREACHING of the levees. You wanna call them liars?

  • Gray

    ‘National guard was mobilized from other states on that day because FEMA had just woken up. How could there be 40000 in NO on Thursday? There were less than 3000 NG there on Thursday.’

    Probably even much less, BC, afaik these are the numbers for the whole desaster area. NO is just a part of it.

  • chuck

    Someone emailed me with the suggestion to use Governor’s Island in New York Harbor. This is an excellent idea!

    I think it is a terrible idea. The residents won’t be going back soon and the last thing we need is a refugee camp. Much better for folks to scatter across nearby states where they can find jobs, the kids can go to school, and the medical facilities are already in place. And that is what is happening.

    How to deal with the criminal element who made up far too much of the city is a trickier question. Does anyone want them?

  • chuck

    All the other evacuees would, of course, clear the roads for the 13 cycles required. That would Require a then no-show, severly-reduced-anyway NG, wouldn’t it.

    That’s what I love about the naysayers here: the can’t do, can’t be done attitude. Great stuff. Just don’t ever ask me to vote for one of them.

  • Gray

    Rightnumberone, dunno what’s so ‘bombastic’ about my comments, I just try to give the facts.
    I check google news search regularly. I found no warnings for NO for the 26., and even at friday 27., it wasn’t certain that Katrina would hit NO and it was still a cat 4 hurricane then. Nevertheless, Blanco declared state emergency ‘just in case':
    http://www.nola.com/news/t-p/frontpage/index.ssf?/base/news-4/1125123931221200.xml
    Again, if you have other infos, pls post a link.

  • Gray

    ‘the can’t do, can’t be done attitude.’ Yup, that’s typical of the republicans, the soft bigotry of low expectations. They apologise FEMA, claiming it hasn’t been possible to evacuate the 20000 people from the superdome in less than 6 days.
    Who’s gonna believe this?

  • http://http:www.rightnumberone.blogspot.com RightNumberOne

    Ok. Links you want, links you got:

    Forecasters: Katrina to aim for Mississippi, Louisiana
    Deadly hurricane could hit again Monday as a Category 4

    Saturday, August 27, 2005 Posted: 0200 GMT (1000 HKT)

    HOLLYWOOD, Florida (CNN) — Hurricane Katrina will make a “big shift” to the west on its way across the Gulf of Mexico and is expected to reach dangerous Category 4 intensity before making landfall Monday afternoon in Mississippi or Louisiana, the National Hurricane Center said Friday.

    http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/08/26/tropical.weather/

    So, Ray Nagin was warned by the National Hurricane Center as early as August 27, 2005 that a Category 4 hurricane was about to hit his city.

  • http://http:www.rightnumberone.blogspot.com RightNumberOne

    PS.

    You misspelled apologize.

  • chuck

    Gray,

    Yup, that’s typical of the republicans

    Boy, they are really, really clever too. Always have that great comeback. Try “bounces off me, sticks to you” instead. It sounds better and will elevate your apparent age to something more respectable.

  • Eileen

    “Bush, Brown and Chertoff said that nobody did anticipate a BREACHING of the levees.” Because ON MONDAY the levees had apparently survived the storm intact. Gray, Chertoff has subsequently explained that statement to you. I guess you didn’t hear it? Too busy Bush bashing and calling these guys liars?

    NO celebrated that it had dodged the bullet on Monday. I did so with my sister by phone. FEMA was busy in a few other states as well. On MONDAY, *should* FEMA’s attention been focused predominantly in the regions which *did* take the direct hit due to the storm’s jag at the last moment? Does anyone here believe that shifts in resources/attention to Biloxi and etc. didn’t take place on Monday? As a taxpayer I WANTED their attention focused on the most decimated regions first and foremost. The magnitude of the storm continues to be forgotten with all the finger pointing re NO.

    Did FEMA have to regroup and divert back to NO after Tuesday unfolded? You bet. But as of Monday NO appeared to be in ‘relatively’ good shape. Should FEMA have been ‘on the ground’ [somewhere] with, again, all resources in every possible location the storm *might have* hit? Are resources/assets diverted *away* from the path of hurricanes so they’ll actually, you know, EXIST after the storm passes? Does it take time to then deliver them back to the actual strike zone? Did FEMA then face logistical nightmares the likes of which we’ve never seen before, in the largest natural disaster we’ve ever known? Should FEMA’s budget be large enough to *immediately* respond in an area the size of 5 Britains all at once? 10 Britains?

    Fact is, had the city actually been evacuated in a timely fashion, and had the poor not instead been *bussed* into the heart of the city, we would not have had to experience the horror of NO. Nice work on evacuating all area hospitals and nursing homes, too.

    Has Blanco agreed to *allow* the Feds to evacuate her city yet?

  • Gray

    ‘Saturday, August 27, 2005 Posted: 0200 GMT (1000 HKT)’
    You must be joking. Scroll up, you said thursday. Blanco declared state of emergency on freiday, for god’s sake. Can’t you simply admit you made an error?

  • Gray

    ‘“Bush, Brown and Chertoff said that nobody did anticipate a BREACHING of the levees.” Because ON MONDAY the levees had apparently survived the storm intact. Gray, Chertoff has subsequently explained that statement to you. I guess you didn’t hear it? Too busy Bush bashing and calling these guys liars?’

    Eileen, you totally missed the point. Some here are accusing Nagin that he should have anticipated the possible breaching of the levees. But either ‘nobody did anticipate a BREACHING of the levees’ is true, then Nagin isn’t guilty, or it could have been anticipated, but then Bush, Brown and Chertoff are liars. This is elementary, dear Eileen.

  • Eileen

    Gray, wasn’t it a cat THREE on a projected path which included NO on Thursday?

  • http://www.feedwriter.com Greg Burton

    You have no shame. None. Eileen, I stayed out of the blame game, because you convinced me to, and I’m more concerned with what happened and what’s next.

    But you didn’t mean it, and neither did any of the other people so bravely attacking – and lying – about the mayor of New Orleans.

    Don’t make excuses. Don’t shift the blame. WE FAILED.

    And you all, you have no shame whatsoever.

  • Gray

    ‘Does anyone here believe that shifts in resources/attention to Biloxi and etc. didn’t take place on Monday?’

    Eileen, I believe in many things. For instance, I believe that in a discussion like this, you better cling to the facts, or else soon somebody will declare that some al quaida terrorist blew up that canal in NO.

  • Gray

    ‘Gray, wasn’t it a cat THREE on a projected path which included NO on Thursday?’
    Eileen, I dunno. Rightnumberone declared that there have been hurricane warnings for NO on thursday. This wasn’t my idea. I couldn’t find any.

    Pls read the other postings above, I’m too exhausted to post all this again.

  • joe

    There are a bunch of Bush apologists posting here. The non response to this catastrophic disaster is non partisan. The American people see it loudly and clearly. The President and FEMA dithered about while people died. It’s that simple.

    There are a certain amount of people on both sides who will defend their side no matter what the facts are.

  • Gray

    Oh, Eileen, and pls don’t quote me with ‘some al quaida terrorist blew up that canal in NO’ :)

  • John

    All this Monday morning quarterbacking is pathetic. There is more than enough blame to go around. This was a “Perfect Storm” not only for Katrina but also for the attitude of local, state, and federal politicians and administrators who thought “keeping their fingers crossed” was a form of disaster planning. They KNEW this might happen and did nothing but HOPE that it wouldn’t. Republican or Democrat, all are equally responsible for this. Those of you who use this tragedy to make your point about the other side make me sick.

  • http://http:www.rightnumberone.blogspot.com RightNumberOne

    Ray Nagin prepares to leave town?

    “Today was a turning point, I think,” he said. “My philosophy is never get too high, never get too low. … I always try to keep my emotions in check and yesterday I kind of went off a little bit. I was worried about that, but it maybe worked out. I don’t know. If the CIA slips me something and next week you don’t see me, you’ll all know what happened.”

    Leadership?

    http://www.nola.com/newsflash/louisiana/index.ssf?/base/news-18/112571274188600.xml&storylist=louisiana

  • http://http:www.rightnumberone.blogspot.com RightNumberOne

    Joe,

    For someone spouting alleged facts, perhaps you should check this ABCNews poll just released.

    The American people don’t agree with your assessment.

    Poll: Bush Not Taking Brunt of Katrina Criticism

    http://abcnews.go.com/US/HurricaneKatrina/story?id=1094262&page=1

  • http://http:www.rightnumberone.blogspot.com RightNumberOne

    Gray,

    By the way, I’m still waiting for you to post a link to your facts.

  • Eileen

    Sorry about that, Greg. I acknowledge I caved. The focus has been all about blame on the news and here as well. I wanted to ask some real questions about FEMA that I am struggling with as well. And I had just read an article dated August 28th in which both Blanco and Nagin appeared to be totally clueless the day before the storm.

    Last Sunday when I learned that Nagin was sending people into the heart of the city for shelter in the face of a cat 4/5 in a below sea level city surrounded by levees built for a 3 I was dumbstruck. I didn’t know he was a Democrat and I could have cared less. I thought *then* it was craziness. I’m angry that my own worst nightmare has come true. My comments about him and Blanco were based on that, as that is ‘failure’ I anticipated.

    Do we need to improve FEMA, too? I’m sure we do. How?

    And Gray, I’m sure you have all the facts, too.

  • http://http:www.rightnumberone.blogspot.com RightNumberOne

    Greg,

    I wonder if you’d mind pointing me to the “lying” about New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin?

    Point me to the specific lie you have seen here.

  • BC

    “Ok. Links you want, links you got:

    Forecasters: Katrina to aim for Mississippi, Louisiana
    Deadly hurricane could hit again Monday as a Category 4

    Saturday, August 27, 2005 Posted: 0200 GMT (1000 HKT)”

    OK? Everybody New that. Most of us knew it would cause serious flooding (except the federal government). What’s your point?

    Now here’s your link:
    http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/article310195.ece

  • BC

    “Last Sunday when I learned that Nagin was sending people into the heart of the city for shelter in the face of a cat 4/5 in a below sea level city surrounded by levees built for a 3 I was dumbstruck.”

    Becaused he assumed FEMA would be there immediately after the storm. Instead of being in the middle of an evacuation, when the storm hit. have them in a central hurricane-proof location for when FEMA and National Gaurd relief comes the NEXT DAY (with grownups in charge). I would have called it a good call, if we had competent and caring Feds.

  • Catherine

    I think it’s really hysterical that people are putting the majority of blame on the mayor. Like I said on another thread, Ray Nagin did not have the legal authority to order a mandatory evacuation until Sunday when the city’s lawyers were able to find him a loophole/precedent in the law that said he could. Can someone please tell me how, on Sunday with the hurricane less than 24 hours away, Ray Nagin was supposed to find bus drivers to get the buses and then organize pickups to get 100,000 people out of town? Did Jeb Bush have school buses mobilized last year in Florida? It is complete blind partisanship to say that the bulk of the blame lies with the mayor for the biggest national disaster in the history of this country. Ray Nagin could have done more, but he did what he could–he did what he was authorized to do. And Blanco declared a state of emergency last Saturday. The fact of the matter is, there’s not much more the governor or the mayor could have done within their job descriptions. FEMA, however, did NOTHING right. Did anyone catch Aaron Broussard (President of Jefferson Parish) on Meet the Press this morning? FEMA turned away fuel supplies from the Coast Guard. They turned away water from Wal-Mart. They cut off the local law enforcement’s communications systems. Not only does it seem that they’re inept but they’re actually making things worse. I don’t know about you blind partisans, but it doesn’t make me sleep any better at night knowing that the mayor might have gotten a few school buses on the street before the storm. What makes me scared is that FEMA, the agency that’s supposed to be the federal government’s primary responder in case of a national disaster, is completely and utterly inept.

  • http://oodja.blogspot.com Jersey Exile

    Right Number One,

    In this situation I am willing to give Bush the benefit of the doubt. He activated FEMA and gave it all the authority it needed to assume command and control in coordinating the disaster relief effort in Katrina’s wake. But at that point something went horribly wrong, and FEMA blew it.

    Ray Nagin is answerable to the voters of New Orleans. Governor Blanco is answerable to the citizens of Louisiana. Those living outside these jurisdictions who would have these people summarily crucified should kindly disengage from the politics of personal destruction and allow local government to function as it should, and punish whom it ultimately finds at fault.

    FEMA director Brown and DHS secretary Chertoff, however, answer to our President. And he answers to us — all of us. If Bush wants to retain any credibility whatsoever in the aftermath of this failure, he needs to show the American people that incompetence will not be tolerated when it comes to emergency management. Too much is at stake here.

    It’s that simple.

  • Eileen

    I understand that, B.C.

    If NO had taken the anticipated direct hit, would the dome have even made it? I don’t have information on that, but that also was part of my fear last Sunday.

    And how fast is FEMA Ever able to ‘get there’ after a strong storm…part of the questions I raised above…due to the need to protect resources from the storm?

    At the very least, shouldn’t there have been adequate food and water for the people being sheltered by the city for several days? Had there been, would we have experienced this degree of horror?

  • http://http:www.rightnumberone.blogspot.com RightNumberOne

    Catherine,

    There is no need to wonder how Nagin was supposed to evacuate the city.

    Here is the link to the Hurricane Disaster Plan for the city of New Orleans, where Nagin is given the power and the responsibility of evacuating the city:

    http://www.cityofno.com/portal.aspx?portal=46&tabid=26

    The failure lies with him; and with Kathleen Blanco, who refused to turn over evacuation efforts to the Federal Government when she realized Nagin wasn’t going to do his job.

  • Gray

    Rightnumberone, most of my posts provide links to the facts. You’ll find a lot by searching buzzmachine. Sry that I couldn’t provide them every time when several people were bashing me at once.
    I’m quite exhausted now, but what are you specifically interested in?
    And, btw, I’m still waiting for YOU to apologize.
    Hurricane warning for NO was friday, not thursday.

  • http://http:www.rightnumberone.blogspot.com RightNumberOne

    Some of you keep asking questions and making comments:

    Questions such as: How was Nagin supposed to evacuate the city?

    Or, making comments such as:

    Nagin didn’t have the authority to evacuate the city.

    But some of you are not linking to actual documents which back up your assertions.

    If you just have an opinion, that’s fine. But when you make statements such as “the mayor did not have the authority to evacuate the city,” then you should really provide a link to an authoritative source that documents your claim.

    I’m trying as best I can to point to authoritative sources of information that I am basing my opinions on. I’m trying not to base my opinion on just, you know, gut feelings, or how I wish things were.

    You may think Nagin is blameless. That is one opinion. And you’re free to have it.

    The facts, the easily documentable facts, are leading me to conclude otherwise.

  • John

    Larry Johnson puts to bed any discussion of when the Feds should have acted:

    http://noquarter.typepad.com/my_weblog/2005/09/criminal_neglig.html

    Bush can’t shift the blame for this off onto the state and local folks. He is at the eye of this scandalous (some say criminal) hurricane.

  • http://oodja.blogspot.com Jersey Exile

    Eileen,

    FEMA didn’t have to fly anywhere after Katrina — they were already in place at least 48 hours before the storm hit!

    Statement on Federal Emergency Assistance for Louisiana
    Office of the Press Secretary
    August 27, 2005

    The President today declared an emergency exists in the State of Louisiana and ordered Federal aid to supplement state and local response efforts in the parishes located in the path of Hurricane Katrina beginning on August 26, 2005, and continuing.

    The President’s action authorizes the Department of Homeland Security, Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), to coordinate all disaster relief efforts which have the purpose of alleviating the hardship and suffering caused by the emergency on the local population, and to provide appropriate assistance for required emergency measures, authorized under Title V of the Stafford Act, to save lives, protect property and public health and safety, or to lessen or avert the threat of a catastrophe in the parishes of Allen, Avoyelles, Beauregard, Bienville, Bossier, Caddo, Caldwell, Claiborne, Catahoula, Concordia, De Soto, East Baton Rouge, East Carroll, East Feliciana, Evangeline, Franklin, Grant, Jackson, LaSalle, Lincoln, Livingston, Madison, Morehouse, Natchitoches, Pointe Coupee, Ouachita, Rapides, Red River, Richland, Sabine, St. Helena, St. Landry, Tensas, Union, Vernon, Webster, West Carroll, West Feliciana, and Winn.

    Specifically, FEMA is authorized to identify, mobilize, and provide at its discretion, equipment and resources necessary to alleviate the impacts of the emergency. Debris removal and emergency protective measures, including direct Federal assistance, will be provided at 75 percent Federal funding.

    Representing FEMA, Michael D. Brown, Under Secretary for Emergency Preparedness and Response, Department of Homeland Security, named William Lokey as the Federal Coordinating Officer for Federal recovery operations in the affected area.

    FOR FURTHER INFORMATION CONTACT: FEMA (202) 646-4600.

  • John

    So you are claiming that they sat there and did nothing??

  • Gray

    Nonsense, rightnumberone. YOU did post information here that turned out to be false. It’s ok to make a mistake in the heat of the arguement, but you didn’t apaologize and still you now want to give us lectures on accountability.
    That’s bald-faced.

  • http://http:www.rightnumberone.blogspot.com RightNumberOne

    Gray,

    I see 19 posts and 1 link.

    Most of your posts do not, therefore, have links in them. In fact, only one of them does.

  • Steve

    You can’t argue with these conservatives. They would forgive Bush even if he was a pedophile — by blaming the child.

  • http://www.feedwriter.com Greg Burton

    Thank you, Eileen. I’m sure we both agree and disagree on many things, and I appreciate your acknowledgement.

    From page 43 of the National Response Plan, signed by the President December 2004:

    â–  Standard procedures regarding requests for assistance may be expedited or, under extreme circumstances, suspended in the immediate aftermath of an event of catastrophic magnitude.

    (So much for “Blanco sent the form to the wrong office”)

    â–  Identified Federal response resources will deploy and begin necessary operations as required to commence life-safety activities.

    (Didn’t happen)

    â–  Notification and full coordination with States will occur, but the coordination process must not delay or impede the rapid deployment and use of critical resources. States are urged to notify and coordinate with local governments regarding a proactive Federal response.

    (THE COORDINATION PROCESS MUST NOT DELAY OR IMPEDE THE RAPID DEPLOYMENT AND USE OF CRITICAL RESOURCES. Yes, I’m shouting.)

    But as you probably know, FEMA in fact discouraged, failed to accept, or prohibited direct and timely aid for not only New Orleans, but Jefferson Parish. Refusing to allow the Red Cross in with food and water because it would “encourage people to stay” is appalling. If I wanted to be a rabble rouser I’d phrase it as “the FEMA policy on the ground was to starve people out”. Expect to see that, eventually, but not from me. Brown and Chertoff are directly responsible there, but I would much rather believe they’re truly incompetent at their jobs rather than malevolent.

    As for what to do about FEMA? It’s a damned good question, but we can’t deal with it in isolation. A budgeting system that allocates $200+ million to a truly non-essential bridge in Alaska but can’t find $40 million for levee repairs is broken. That’s not partisan – the budgeting (and hence prioritizing system) is broken. While FEMA may need direct attention first, the whole system needs reform, badly.

    When the time comes for that, I hope people of good will on ALL sides of the political spectrum will be able to come together and decide on a change. It’ll be messy, but it needs doing. I would like to see you involved in that, Eileen. I hope your sister and her family are doing ok, and that you’re holding up.

  • http://http:www.rightnumberone.blogspot.com RightNumberOne

    I’m dumfounded by your critiquing abilities Steve.

    You display typical leftist thinking. When you can’t win an argument on facts, start calling people child molesters.

    You can crawl back under your rock now, Steve.

    I figure in under 30 more posts, I’ll be called a Nazi, and we can officially close this thread.

  • Gray

    ‘So you are claiming that they sat there and did nothing??’

    Yes.
    Here’s one eyewitness accout of fed agents poking in their nose and preventing the rescue mission of Lavayete volunteers:
    http://securingamerica.com/ccn/node/371

    Even worse, FEMA interdicted the transport of supplies for the hurricane victims:
    http://securingamerica.com/ccn/node/387

  • http://http:www.rightnumberone.blogspot.com RightNumberOne

    Greg,

    Excellent posting. I think everyone would agree that FEMA could have acted more quickly once New Orleans flooded. (How FEMA was supposed to get relief to people submerged in 12 feet of water is a mystery I haven’t quite figured out yet.)

    Nevertheless, the city had the authority and obligation to evacuate infirm residents before the storm. A plan was made prior to the storm to accomplish this feat.

    Yet, the plan was not carried out.

    Although there were elements of the plan that dealt with people who could not afford to leave, or were too infirm to leave New Orleans, the city did not execute that part of the plan.

    The city told anyone who couldn’t get out to go to the Superdome, where the city knew there would be no water, electricity, food, adequate safety or a way out.

    It’s criminal negligence on the part of the Mayor, who holds these responsibilities.

  • Gray

    (How FEMA was supposed to get relief to people submerged in 12 feet of water is a mystery I haven’t quite figured out yet.)
    I guess you would call the necessary

  • Gray

    ????
    I guess you would call the necessary device a BOAT, rightnumberone.

  • http://http:www.rightnumberone.blogspot.com RightNumberOne

    Greg,

    I’m curious if you have an idea many boats it would take to ship in enough supplies to feed and water 150,000 stranded people for 6 days?

    Not to mention the additional 500,000 people who are affected by this storm in 3 other states who currently have no food, water or electricity?

  • VinceGlorthau

    I’m not clear on why anyone bothers responding to RightNumberOne. He doesn’t play by the rules, doesn’t acknowledge when he’s wrong, doesn’t engage with anyone’s points, except the ones that he wants to engage with. If I were the moderator on this board, I would shut down this thread immediately, as there’s just too much intellectual dishonesty here.

    It’s very much why most of the the right of center blogs stopped linking to Brendan Loy. Once he got around to attacking FEMA, Brown, and Chertoff for their incompetance, in addition to Nagin for his incompetance, it wasn’t any fun for them anymore.

    You can’t fool everyone all the time, though. The disatisfaction is growing, and Rasmussen has it right here:

    http://rasmussenreports.com/2005/Katrina.htm

  • http://http:www.rightnumberone.blogspot.com RightNumberOne

    Pardon me Greg,

    My last post was directed at Harbor Master Gray.

  • http://http:www.rightnumberone.blogspot.com RightNumberOne

    Vince,

    If you don’t agree with someone … the left’s answer is to cut off debate. Hell, just censor that guy RightNumberOne.

    Moderator – close this thread!!!!

    That’s why we aren’t letting people like you run the country.

    You’re DANGEROUS.

  • VinceGlorthau

    Sorry to double post, but RNO finally showed a bit of humilty while I was typing my last comment.

    RNO, the issue is not how many boats would have been necessary. What’s at issue is that the number necessary would be more than effectively 0, which is what FEMA provided. Nagin was bad–FEMA was worse, because relief is their job–it’s their speciality.

    I know you guys all get your talking points from a central location, but be careful: it’s apparent to everyone what’s going on here and how you’re trying to deflect the blame from “Horse-Boy” Brown. People are smarter than you give them credit for being.

  • Gray

    VinceGlorthau, you’re right, I’ve been too polite. He won’t even admit lazy mistakes, yet wants me to do the work and show all my links now. Heck, he doesn’t even say which information he doubts. Now he states that there were 150000 people trapped, a number that’s nowhere to be seen in the news. Of course, he’s not providing a link, thus violating his own ‘ethics code’.
    What a troll.

  • VinceGlorthau

    Ah, lag is fun, isn’t it?

    RNO, take a chill pill. Nobody’s trying to silence you. It’s just that this blog seems to be for real discussion. You’ll always have Free Republic.

    If you can’t acknowledge that FEMA, Brown, et al were incompetant, in the same way that Nagin was incompetant, then you’re fundamentally intellectually dishonest. That seems to be what you’re doing, and you’re doing it for entirely partisan reasons. That’s really sad.

    If you’re out for getting to the truth, then great. But it’s apparent to all concerned that that’s not at all what you’re doing here–you’re out to defect blame from the feds.

  • Gray

    Reightnumberone, provide links to the numbers of 150000 and 500000 first. I suspect that they are your own guesstimate.

  • http://http:www.rightnumberone.blogspot.com RightNumberOne

    According to Rasmussen:

    53% of Americans feel that the Federal government’s response to the disaster has been Excellent, Good or Fair.

    http://rasmussenreports.com/2005/Katrina.htm

    Only 45% think its been poor.

    Thanks for helping me make my point Vince.

    Even with the entire MSM attempting to make this whole flood George W. Bush’s fault, the American public isn’t falling for it.

    That’s inline with the ABCNews Poll which shows similar results This poll showed that 75% of people questioned believe that the state of Louisiana and the city of New Orleans were not prepared for this storm.

    http://abcnews.go.com/US/HurricaneKatrina/story?id=1094262&page=1

    Also shows just 44% blaming Bush (which is inline with the 44% of Americans who blame Bush for anything.)

  • klarkin

    With respect to boats, they could have just used the three that the NOFD had.

    I’m still waiting for a cogent discussion as to why the Mayor didn’t do his job. I asume the citizens of LA pay him to do something.

  • BC

    “I think everyone would agree that FEMA could have acted more quickly once New Orleans flooded. ”

    They should have moved their apparatus in place on Saturday and Sunday. I knew it would be catistrophic. I’m a little guy with a computer Why didn’t FEMA move then.

    “(How FEMA was supposed to get relief to people submerged in 12 feet of water is a mystery I haven’t quite figured out yet.)”

    This is the most twisted assenine thing I’ve heard so far! The people who needed relief were high and as dry as could be expected, and ALIVE at the dome and convention centers. Any one under 12 feet of water was dead. You just proved you are unencumbered by the thought process!

    “Yet, the plan was not carried out.”

    Why don’t you post that plan yet one more time? You know, the one that says nothing about what to do for flooding?

    “The city told anyone who couldn’t get out to go to the Superdome, where the city knew there would be no water, electricity, food, adequate safety or a way out.”

    Unless the President, on his vacation, had gotten his ass back to DC and mobilized FEMA on Sunday. He could have called Brown Saturday night to save all the Arabian Horses in NO. Nagin would have made a good call, had grownups been in charge of FEMA. I guess that would be to much for him to expect.

    “It’s criminal negligence on the part of the Mayor, who holds these responsibilities.”

    Criminal negligence is bying $3000 shoes, playing guitar, hiding in Wyoming, eating birthday cake, playing golf and speaking to an audience of hand picked syncophants about something the rest of the country doesn’t want while babies and elderly dehydrate at your feet. When are you going to stop bashing Nagin and answer to the real issues?

  • Gray

    The volunteers of Lafayette came with a lot of boats. FEMA turned them away:
    http://securingamerica.com/ccn/node/371

    And where’s the evidence that Nagin didn’t do his job?

  • http://http:www.rightnumberone.blogspot.com RightNumberOne

    Gray,

    According to CNN, the estimate of people trapped in the Superdome was 30,000.

    They evacuated 1,000 from a single hospital in New Orleans.

    I am looking for better estimates.

    Meantime, how many boats do you think it would take to haul in enough supplies to feed, water, clothe, provide medicine or otherwise take care of 30,000 people for 6 days?

    Your original point was that FEMA should have just went in there with some boats. Right?

  • Gray

    ‘Unless the President, on his vacation, had gotten his ass back to DC and mobilized FEMA on Sunday.’
    90% ack to you, BC, but Bush DID order FEMA to start preps on SATURDAY!
    ‘President Bush has issued a pre-storm emergency declaration that puts federal agencies on alert to provide aid, Gov. Kathleen Blanco said Saturday night, adding that FEMA representatives told her such a move is highly unusual.’
    http://www.shreveporttimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050828/NEWS01/508280312/1002/NEWS

    Brown badly s***ed up. Of course, he was appointed by Bush, even though he has no real qualification on the job:
    http://business.bostonherald.com/businessNews/view.bg?articleid=100857

  • VinceGlorthau

    All right–for those keeping track at home, this is what we call intellectual dishonesty.

    1) Rasmussen follows conventional polling guideles–good/excellent = positive; fair/poor = negative. So, the lede from Rasmussen goes: “Just 28% of Americans give say that the federal government has done a good or an excellent job responding to Hurricane Katrina. Another 25% say the government has done a fair job while 45% say poor.” But, suddenly “fair” is an indication of success–at least according to RNO.

    2) On the ABC poll, the 67% said the feds weren’t adequately prepared, which is in the general ballpark of the 75% that blame LA and NO. (25+45 = 70, which is very close to the 70%. Not a coincidence.) So, there’s a fair number of people that aren’t blaming Bush, but ARE blaming poor response of FEMA and the feds. That’s what we call the emerging concensus, kids, and it sounds about right to me.

    RNO, do you really think that we don’t read these links? Thanks for proving my point about YOUR intellectual dishonesty, RNO.

    As I alluded to before–if I had a blog, I wouldn’t have comments on it. I would force the intellectually dishonest to post on their own board somewhere.

  • http://http:www.rightnumberone.blogspot.com RightNumberOne

    Gray,

    Get your facts straight (do you even READ your links). You will have no credibility here if you can’t even get basic facts straight.

    The floatilla of 500 boats headed out from Lafayette that you mentioned was turned back by the Louisiana Department of Wildlfe and Fisheries.

    Not FEMA.

    I’m now quoting from YOUR LINK:

    “At that time they were stopped by agents of the La. Dept. of Wildlife & Fisheries. A young DWF agent strolled through the boats and told approximately half of the citizens that their boats were too large because the water had dropped during the night and that they should turn around and go home.

    “They were pulling a large (24ft) shallow draft aluminum boat that can safely carry 12 passengers and had ramp access which would allow the elderly and infirm to have easier access to the boat. They then politely informed the DWF agent that the local and national media had consistently reported that the water level had risen during the night which contradicted his statement to them that the water was dropping and no boat over 16ft. in length would be allowed to participate in rescue operations.

    “They then specifically asked the DWF agent that they (and other citizens in the flotillia) be allowed to go to the hospitals and help evacuate the sick and the doctors and nurses stranded there. They offered to bring these people back to Lafayette, in our own vehicles, in order to ensure that they received proper and prompt medical care.

    “The DWF agent did not want to hear this and ordered them home — ALL FIVE HUNDRED BOATS. They complied with the DWF agent’s orders, turned around and headed back to Lafayette along with half of the flotillia.”

    Moronic officials of the State of Louisiana are causing the problems, not FEMA.

  • Gray

    Yahoo news and several other sources said 100000 trapped in NO:
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050829/ap_on_re_us/katrina_superdome

  • http://http:www.rightnumberone.blogspot.com RightNumberOne

    Vince,

    How is it intellectually dishonest to accurately quote their poll.

    I said, and I maintain, that 53% of the people polled believe that the federal government has done an Excellent, Good or Fair job. And the poll shows EXACTLY that.

    I also said 75% of people believe that the state and local governments were unprepared (but you said nothing about that poll result).

    You are the one being intellectually dishonest by attempting to say that a “fair” job is a “bad” job. That lefty tactic won’t work here.

  • http://http:www.rightnumberone.blogspot.com RightNumberOne

    Gray,

    So, how many boats you think it would take to haul in enough food, water, medicine and clothing to take care of 100,000 people for 6 days?

  • VinceGlorthau

    A better question for you, RNO is whether you think we can’t read to the bottom of Gray’s link:

    “Sheriff Lee and Senator Gautreaux – 1000 of Louisiana’s citizens responded to the public’s pleas for help. They were prevented from helping by Dwight Landreneau’s agency, the Department of Wildlife and Fisheries which had been taken over by FEMA. When I learned that Charity Hospital has not been evacuated and that no one has been there to attempt a rescue, I became angry.”

    Are you that lazy? Are you are you that intellectually dishonest?

  • http://http:www.rightnumberone.blogspot.com RightNumberOne

    BTW Gray,

    A quote you missed in the Yahoo story was by the manager of the Superdome:

    “We can make things very nice for 75,000 people for four hours. But we aren’t set up to really accommodate 8,000 for four days.”

    Much less 30,000.

  • Gray

    What are you talking about, Rightnumberone? Haven’t you read this:
    ‘They were prevented from helping by Dwight Landreneau’s agency, the Department of Wildlife and Fisheries which had been taken over by FEMA.’

    This makes sense, since how would a DWF agent otherwise have authority to do interdict a private rescue mission? Because of the close season???

  • VinceGlorthau

    RNO: “I also said 75% of people believe that the state and local governments were unprepared (but you said nothing about that poll result).”

    VinceGlorthau: “On the ABC poll, the 67% said the feds weren’t adequately prepared, which is in the general ballpark of the 75% that blame LA and NO.”

    RNO, either, you didn’t read my post, or you’re just a liar.

    Sorry to have to just come out and say it. But it’s in black and white in my comment above.

  • http://http:www.rightnumberone.blogspot.com RightNumberOne

    Vince,

    Can you please post a link to any news story, press release, or other authoritative source which will claim that FEMA has taken over the Louisiana Department of Wildlife and Fisheries to the extent that some rube DWF agent at the Clearview exit of I-10 is “just passing along FEMA orders.”

    My god, you don’t really think I’m taking you seriously do you.

  • VinceGlorthau

    Don’t worry, Gray. It’s not just you. RNO isn’t reading my posts honestly either.

  • http://http:www.rightnumberone.blogspot.com RightNumberOne

    Vince,

    I wondered how many posts it would take before you started name calling.

  • VinceGlorthau

    RNO, YOU ARE THE ONE who posted the long excerpt from Gray. You left out the most relevant part of it. If you don’t consider that authoritative (because I don’t know who these guys are), then find your own source. But to post a misleading excerpt and accuse Gray of not reading the linkage–that’s just wrong.

  • http://http:www.rightnumberone.blogspot.com RightNumberOne

    I posted the relevant part. That some rube DFW agent, standing next to a 200 OTHER rube DFW agents along a highway, doing NOTHING, ordered the floatilla home.

    Not FEMA.

    My point is that the state of Louisiana is being run by incompetents, and this just proves it.

  • http://http:www.rightnumberone.blogspot.com RightNumberOne

    And that’s why Democrats aren’t going to run things anymore.

  • Gray

    Rightnumberone, stop this ‘can’t do’ spirit. Most of the 100000 people can be reached by road.
    ‘Meanwhile there were journalists, including some who work for The Times-Picayune, going in and out of the city via the Crescent City Connection. On Thursday morning, that crew saw a caravan of 13 Wal-Mart tractor trailers headed into town to bring food, water and supplies to a dying city.’
    http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001054586

    Normally, the needs of all 500000 people of New Orleans are provided by trucks. The WalMart example shows that ‘normal’ transport is possible, when not interdicted by FEMA.

    You need boats and helis only for rescue operations, not the ‘normal’ evacs and supply.

  • VinceGlorthau

    “I wondered how many posts it would take before you started name calling.”

    “RNO, either, you didn’t read my post, or you’re just a liar.”

    Actually, you’re still waiting. I’m trying to give you the benefit of the doubt. But, if you read and understood my post as quoted, and you posted what you posted, then you were lying.

    So, which is it?

  • Gray

    The Department of the Interior’s U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service is shortened FWS, but otherwise the information is correct:
    ‘U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service supports FEMA hurricane recovery efforts; Prepares to clear roads, establish emergency corridors ‘
    http://www.fws.gov/

  • http://http:www.rightnumberone.blogspot.com RightNumberOne

    Gray,

    I like how you change the subject when it’s not to your liking.

    I said: “How FEMA was supposed to get relief to people submerged in 12 feet of water is a mystery I haven’t quite figured out yet.)

    Your response was to question the number of people needing assistance.

    Your next response was to say that FEMA should have used boats.

    Now you’re saying FEMA didn’t need boats.

    Enough with the boats.

    The City of New Orleans has pumping stations which are supposed to pump water out of them. The Mayor, since he is the CEO of the city, was charged with making sure those pumps worked.

    None of them are working.

    Is that Bush’s fault too?

  • http://http:www.rightnumberone.blogspot.com RightNumberOne

    Gray,

    The US Fish and Wildlife Service bears no resemblence to the Louisiana Department of Wildlife and Fisheries.

    In Louisiana (which, you would know if you had ever lived there) the Department of Wildlife and Fisheries is where cops are sent when they’re too fat to be cops anymore.

    I’m not surprised they found 200 of them standing around not doing anything. That’s pretty much what they do all the time.

  • BC

    Gray Sez:

    “Brown badly s***ed up.”

    The point here is….. Anybody up for more rubberstamped Bush appointments?

  • http://http:www.rightnumberone.blogspot.com RightNumberOne

    Anybody here ready to elect more Democrats in Louisiana?

  • BC

    “And that’s why Democrats aren’t going to run things anymore. ”

    They haven’t run things for 5 years! You Like?

  • BC

    “Anybody here ready to elect more Democrats in Louisiana?”

    Louisiana Dems: Inept
    FEMA: Criminally inept
    Bush administration: Criminally negligent

    I choose the dems.

  • Chancy

    Fed Response to Katrina Gets Thumbs Down
    Survey of 1,000 Adults

    September 2-3, 2005

    Federal Response to

    Hurricane Katrina

    Excellent 12%
    Good 16%
    Fair 25%
    Poor 45%
    RasmussenReports.com

    from the Rasmussen Reports poll

    I don’t know where RNO gets the bogus numbers

  • BC

    “I don’t know where RNO gets the bogus numbers ”

    He explained that. We are doing an evil librul mind trick on him.

  • http://http:www.rightnumberone.blogspot.com RightNumberOne

    Hmmm:

    25+16+12 = 53% say fed response has been Excellent, Good or Fair

    45% say poor.

    Those aren’t bogus.

    I can just do math.

    Which, apparently you can’t.

  • http://http:www.rightnumberone.blogspot.com RightNumberOne

    Sheesh People,

    Can you guys put your heads together and come up with something better. The public ain’t buyin’ your message.

  • VinceGlorthau

    It’s called grading on a curve, or a gentleman’s C.

    Getting Cs at Yale means you can graduate and one day be president.

    Getting Cs at FEMA means more people die than necessary.

    Like I said above, the emerging polling consensus seems to be pretty harsh on the locals and the feds, and rightfully so.

  • http://http:www.rightnumberone.blogspot.com RightNumberOne

    Hmmm

    33% of people believe in alien visits.

    Gallup:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UFO

  • VinceGlorthau

    RNO, I don’t care whether anyone gets some message. They can make up their own mind.

    And when ABC finds that 67% thinks that the feds weren’t properly prepared, then that’s sad. And it’s clear that people are rightfully upset.

    We should expect better out of all the authorities. Louisianans can run their own elections–the feds affect all of us, and their lack of preparation is scary.

  • VinceGlorthau

    RNO, so is what you’re saying that the 33% that believe in aliens are the same 33% that believe the feds were properly prepared?

  • http://http:www.rightnumberone.blogspot.com RightNumberOne

    The emerging polling consensus seems to be that a majority of the public believes that the federal government is doing an excellent, good, or fair job handling this crisis.

    75% believe that the state of Louisiana and the city of New Orleans were not prepared.

    That’s pretty overwhelming support.

  • http://http:www.rightnumberone.blogspot.com RightNumberOne

    Re: UFO’s

    No, Vince … just thought it was in interesting poll.

  • http://http:www.rightnumberone.blogspot.com RightNumberOne

    Vince,

    I’m curious. What would you have had the federal government do to better prepare for the flood in New Orleans?

  • VinceGlorthau

    So, RNO, you’re using the ABC poll for disatisfaction levels with the state and locals, and the Rasmussen poll for the feds? This seems to be what you’re doing, since these are the two polls that have been quoted on here.

    When you compare apples to apples, the preparedness approval number for the locals at ABC is 24% vs. 31% for the feds.

    http://abcnews.go.com/US/HurricaneKatrina/story?id=1094262&page=1

    Both numbers are very low. If you have other polls, I’d love to see them so we can talk about them. But, if these are the only polls that we have, the apples to apples comparison indicates deep disatisfaction with both levels, which seems right to me.

  • Gray

    That’s easy. Bush should have left James Lee Witt at the helm. He has the experience, he would have handled the details.

  • Gray

    RNO, 67% believe that the feds were not prepeared, so I’m wondering why you defend FEMA so vehemently and put all the blame on Blanco and Nagin…

  • Gray

    BC, isn’t the essesnce of what you’re saying: ‘Blanco and Nagin s****ed up’?
    How’s that for rubberstamping?

  • VinceGlorthau

    RNO–

    Man, I’m a networking engineer. I don’t evacuate people. I leave that to experts like James Lee Witt, the former FEMA head. I keep servers running.

    I do know that too many people were left in NOLA, the locals didn’t seem to know what they were doing, Chertoff and Brown were underinformed throughout this thing, people were left in that dome for days, and that’s pretty sad. I just expect better from leaders. And you should too–even when they’re from your party.

  • Eileen

    Jersey,

    Your quote doesn’t tell me where the resources were stored (presumably someplace outside the projected path). We don’t have much information yet about the degree of debris removal involved, etc., that had to be accomplished between points A and B, etc. [At least I don’t.] We know at least portions of the airport weren’t accessible for some time. What was the extent of the damage there? What other specific logistical issues had to be overcome? There are a lot of missing facts at this point.

    Greg,

    “But as you probably know, FEMA in fact discouraged, failed to accept, or prohibited direct and timely aid for not only New Orleans, but Jefferson Parish. Refusing to allow the Red Cross in with food and water because it would “encourage people to stay” is appalling.” Do you have citations? Apparently – ahem – there are some questionable reports flying around.

    Thanks for your kind words. My sister and family are well.

  • http://http:www.rightnumberone.blogspot.com RightNumberOne

    Vince,

    Using the ABC poll, it is easy to tease out sentiment:

    Feds adquately prepared: 67% say no
    State adequately prepared: 75% say no

    A far larger majority is placing the preparedness blame on the state, and that’s borne out by the next question about whether they blame this on Bush:

    55% no
    45% yes

    If people were squarely putting the preparedness blame on the federal government (which, they aren’t, but if they were) Bush’s blame numbers would be higher.

    I’m digging back into Rasmussen for similar analysis but do not have access to his internals.

  • BC

    Neo-con world:
    Excellent 12%
    Good 16%
    Fair 25%
    Poor 45%

    Real world (the world good people imagine and hope for and understand could be):
    Excellent 99%
    Good .03%
    Fair .06%
    Poor .01%

    Bushes grades at yale:
    Excellent 12%
    Good 16%
    Fair 25%
    Poor 45%

    RNC I love your Intelligent-Design-point-of-view regarding math an science.

  • Gray

    oops, BC, sry, I think I got confused…
    should better go to bed now…

  • http://http:www.rightnumberone.blogspot.com RightNumberOne

    Rasmussen’s poll does not address the question of “preparedness.”

    At least the version that I have does not. If you have another link, I’d be interested in seeing it.

  • http://http:www.rightnumberone.blogspot.com RightNumberOne

    Again with the name calling.

    When defeated on your argument to make me out to be a “bogus number” pusher, you retreat into name calling.

    Have you no shame, sir.

  • http://http:www.rightnumberone.blogspot.com RightNumberOne

    Here’s one for you guys to chew on:

    The state of Louisiana limits the amount of taxation that a levy board may impose upon its citizens to 5 mils.

    That’s not a law.

    It’s written into the Louisiana Constitution.

    http://senate.legis.state.la.us/Documents/Constitution/Article6.htm#§38.  Levee%20Districts

    The state of Louisiana deliberately keeps levee districts from being able to raise enough money to keep the levees up.

    Marvelous.

  • VinceGlorthau

    No, unfortunately, I don’t have access to Rasmussen’s internals. It would be interesting to see them. However, one of the more interesting things about the ABC poll is on Bush’s response to Katrina–last question. Overall response to Bush’s handling of Katrina–disapproval by 47% to 46%, which looks much like his generic approval numbers.

    So, that’s a statistical tie, really. It seems to me that the disapproval ties back to Bush’s approval ratings, which are pretty close to those numbers–45-53 at Rasmussen.

    So, I go back to what I said earlier–the preparedness numbers are very high for both locals and feds, with the locals being slightly higher.

    There’s plenty of time for all parties to do some good work. But I think that when the bodies are counted, there’s going to be a heavy political price paid by all involved.

  • VinceGlorthau

    “The state of Louisiana deliberately keeps levee districts from being able to raise enough money to keep the levees up.”

    So, you’re a republican, right? Do I understand you to be advocating higher taxes? I’m going to report you to the Club for Growth. :)

  • VinceGlorthau

    To add to my polling conclusions above–RNO, I just don’t see the evidence that you do that people are blaming the state more than the feds. When it comes to Bush, people are just falling back on their previous conceptions of him.

    As to the rest, it should become clear later on. Based on the numbers that I’ve seen, though, I think it’s bad news for all involved.

  • http://http:www.rightnumberone.blogspot.com RightNumberOne

    Vince,

    I think we finally agree. Bad news for anyone in charge, whether they are really to blame or not. That just human nature.

    I don’t particularly favor higher taxes, but I’m definitely not in favor of having elements of public safety (levees, nuclear reactor safety, police, etc.) hobbled by lack of adequate resources via state Constitutions.

    Essentially, what the state of Louisiana is doing is deliberately underfunding levee districts so that the federal government will have to pick up the tab through the Corps of Engineers. The vast majority of the state levee budgets go to pay the salaries of those members of the levee boards and their brother-in-laws and top pay for the 4-wheel drive vehicles they use to perform once-a-month “inspections” of the levee system.

    It’s the Corps that does the yeoman’s work of keeping the Port of New Orleans open and the Mississippi River navigable.

    Damn shame that the levee that broke was the one they spent the most money on and had the latest improvements (such as a cement cap).

  • BC

    RNC sez: “Can you guys put your heads together and come up with something better. The public ain’t buyin’ your message.”

    You keep hammering local government OK fine. The public will buy your message, because they have their own local governments that aren’t much different.

    I’m going to ask one last time, Yes or No: Do you think it was OK for Bush to remain on vacation and not fly back to DC when the magnitude of this situation was known last Saturday?

    Do you think it was OK for Bush to attend a birthday party for a photo op with a cake and Guitar, and played a round of golf in Arizona while hundreds (maybe thousands) would die without his full attention to the matter?

    Do you think it was OK for Bush to Fly to California to pitch his Medicare and Medicaide plan to a hand picked friendly audience that would have done absolutely nothing to convince the skeptical and those who kno it will just F**K the poor and working class, AGAIN?

    Do you think it was OK for bush to appoint Brown to FEMA, who had no emergency management expertise whatsoever, who was, in fact, “let go” as an attorney for The Arabian Horse Association?

    Do you think it was OK for Condoleeza Rice to be at a Broadway show on Wedensday Night and Shopping for $3000 shoes the next day while a shoestore patron started screaming at her that shee is buying shoes while 1000’s die?

    Do you think it was OK for the VP to be completely silent during a crisis to the point of arousing widespread rumors of grave illness and death?

    Do you think it was OK that Chertoff didn’t know anyone was at the Convention Center, when the media had known it for a day?

    Do you think it was OK that Bush’s entourage held up relief for Approximately 6 hours?

    Most Important: Do you think it is OK to allow the Federal Government’s Emmergency management performance to stand in light of Tax Cuts for 1% of the population, a war that diverted badly needed resources and personel to install a Sharia government in Iraq (some are already calling it “Western Iraq”) in a time when the Administration’s inattention to “loose Nukes” could lead to the next FEMA F-up being the president standing next to a mile-wide crater for his 3-day-late photo-op?

    There’s so much more but I’m tired. Please. Defend your boy. Inquiring minds want to know.

  • http://http:www.rightnumberone.blogspot.com RightNumberOne

    Incidently Vince,

    No less authority than your New York Times earlier this year rejected increased funding for the Corps of Engineers (via Powerline):

    “Anyone who cares about responsible budgeting and the health of America’s rivers and wetlands should pay attention to a bill now before the Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works. The bill would shovel $17 billion at the Army Corps of Engineers for flood control and other water-related projects — this at a time when President Bush is asking for major cuts in Medicaid and other important domestic programs. Among these projects is a $2.7 billion boondoggle on the Mississippi River that has twice flunked inspection by the National Academy of Sciences.
    The Government Accountability Office and other watchdogs accuse the corps of routinely inflating the economic benefits of its projects. And environmentalists blame it for turning free-flowing rivers into lifeless canals and destroying millions of acres of wetlands — usually in the name of flood control and navigation but mostly to satisfy Congress’s appetite for pork.

    This is a bad piece of legislation,” The Times opined.

    Great timing there, huh?

  • BC

    Good:

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/latimests/20050904/ts_latimes/despitewarningswashingtonfailedtofundleveeprojects

    I like this paragraph: “With the advantage of hindsight, the miscues seem even broader. Construction proposals were often underfunded or not completed. Washington officials could never agree on how much money would be needed to protect New Orleans. And there hung in the air a false sense of security that a storm like Katrina was a long shot anyway.”

  • VinceGlorthau

    So, now, we have a republican advocating higher taxes and more pork.

    This thing is getting weirder all the time. :)

  • Chancy

    Jeff
    Finally —the Bush White House gets the message. Perhaps they read your blog
    —————————————————————-
    Honoring the Memory of the Victims of Hurricane Katrina Proclamation
    A Proclamation by the President of the United States of Amercia

    As a mark of respect for the victims of Hurricane Katrina, I hereby order, by the authority vested in me by the Constitution and laws of the United States of America, that the flag of the United States shall be flown at half-staff at the White House and on all public buildings and grounds, at all military posts and naval stations, and on all naval vessels of the Federal Government in the District of Columbia and throughout the United States and its Territories and possessions until sunset, Tuesday, September 20, 2005. I also direct that the flag shall be flown at half-staff for the same period at all United States embassies, legations, consular offices, and other facilities abroad, including all military facilities and naval vessels and stations.

    IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this fourth day of September, in the year of our Lord two thousand five, and of the Independence of the United States of America the two hundred and thirtieth.

    GEORGE W. BUSH

    # # #

  • BC

    VinceGlorthau: “So, now, we have a republican advocating higher taxes and more pork.

    This thing is getting weirder all the time”

    Someday they will join the majority in this country in advocating fair taxes and wise spending. And I am not talking about libruls or Neo-cons and demofats or repugnicans. I am talking about *real* American and human ideals.

  • BC

    Sorry. I meant RNO in previous posts.

  • http://www.akkamsrazor.com rzklkng

    I’m willing to accept that the mayor and governor may be partially responsible – any of you cheerleaders ready to do the same for your boys our are you 100% sure that your party covered all the bases, and everyone else (especially the democrats) are solely responsible?

  • http://www.feedwriter.com Greg Burton

    Eileen –

    There are conflicting stories on the Red Cross, but their website faq is here – http://www.redcross.org/faq/0,1096,0_682_4524,00.html#4524 . They say “state Homeland Security” but I’m very unclear on if that was the state or the Feds – my uneducated guess is that it was the Feds, since they work in FEMA (or FEMA approved, not sure) shelters. I don’t really care who did it – it’s appalling. The Red Cross page also says the Superdome was the right decision under the circumstances.

    The Forest Service had firefighting tankers and fire crews on standby. They went on standby Tuesday, and hadn’t been called as of Thursday. http://www.rapidcityjournal.com/articles/2005/09/02/news/local/news02.txt

    Sen. Landrieu referenced that and the Amtrak story last night. Yesterday DHS announced that FS and Amtrak help were expected. I’d seen both stories separately earlier, but I don’t have the original links. This link is to the discussions she had with Amtrak on the 1st, so I believe that she’s correct on that point as well.
    http://www.clarionledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050901/NEWS0110/509010402/1260

    New Mexico (which apparently had the only medical team in the Superdome) Vovernor Richarson offered our National Guard last Sunday – got the clearance and paperwork from DC on Thursday. AP story – one of many links. http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2005/09/04/military/15_43_309_3_05.txt
    We are getting displaced people in now, and the governor has declared a state of emergency so he can fund that – initial release $1million.

    President Broussard from Jefferson Parish had three specific instances of fuel oil from the Coast Guard, water from Wal-Mart, and a cut phone line (?) by FEMA he went into on Meet The Press this morning. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9179790/

    I believe the cut phone line for one reason – a rescue team from Virginia responded to him directly, and wasn’t allowed in. http://www.wavy.com/Global/story.asp?S=3798468 FEMA (and apparently the state) failed to get back to them at the time the story ran.

    This is relevent because FEMA issued a “directive” to local agencies not to respond to requests from parishes or counties, but to co-ordinate with them firs on Augsut 29th. http://www.fema.gov/news/newsrelease.fema?id=18470

    Broussard and his sheriff obviously don’t play by FEMA’s rules when their people are dying. Broussard also said that Nagin was hearing the same thing he was – “they’re on their way”. If you haven’t yet, read the portion of his transcript.

    Then there is the “take your boats home” link from above. FEMA-ized LA Wildlife and Fisheries. http://securingamerica.com/ccn/node/371 Again, there may be interpretation here, but the first-person author clearly blamed FEMA, rather than the state.

    That’s probably more than enough. I note that the stories are pretty consistent in tone and in ascribing the same sense to FEMA’s reactions – “we don’t need it”. My take is that communications were horrible, and I don’t mean the infrastructure, I mean the human communications. (On infrastructure we can investigate later the DHS initiative on interoperable emergency systems and if there was any.)

    So – delayed, prohibited and failed to accept – I think that covers it.

  • http://www.perrspectives.com AvengingAngel

    With New Orleans and the Gulf States in ruins, now is not the time for purely symbolic acts, especially not cynical ones.

    That’s why President Bush and the Pentagon should cancel the so-called Freedom Walk scheduled for Sunday, September 11.

    For the full story, see:

    “Cancel the 9/11 Freedom Walk.”

  • http://hammeroftruth.com/ Stephen VanDyke

    To hell with the flags, lower the FEMA red tape.

  • chuck

    Greg,

    I’m very unclear on if that was the state or the Feds

    It’s the state, idiot. It’s under the Louisiana Military Department. This isn’t a great mystery, it takes about 30 seconds to find that out. I figure the rest of your post is probably equally worthless, but I don’t think it’s worth my time to find out.

  • http://www.feedwriter.com Greg Burton

    Any excuse in a storm, chuck. I’m trying to learn some things, and I’m presenting my sources. If leaving them up to you to decide what might – just might – look different on the ground than it did on paper is idiocy, then so be it.

    I’m glad to learn that you think honesty is idiocy. It gives me excellent reason to skip your comments with an utterly clear conscience.
    Thank you for being so easy to ignore.

    Greg

  • Pingback: The Fat Guy » Blog Archive » Picking on Jeffro

  • Eileen

    Greg,

    Please forgive my delay in responding and I appreciate the time you took to compile some sources. I don’t have the time to thoroughly read and dissect and search and respond to each of your citations at this point. I think if I were to do so, I’d probably still have some questions regarding these stories. How much is tainted by spin or motivated by self preservation? If true, what was the rationale for these *purported* responses by FEMA? At the very least, I do not believe they were malevolent. And there’s a whole lot more to learn regarding how good a job FEMA’s done in the face of ALL facts and the realities of this catstrophe. Add in the impact of state/local actions and lack thereof..

    I’m trying to keep abreast as much as possible in the midst of ‘life’. To be continued, I’m sure.

  • Linda Edwards

    Thanks Greg, for the links. I especially found the Red Cross link very informative, especially the point that the original plan to evacuate the residents to points outside the city were scuttled due to safety reasons, and that the Red Cross applauds the mayor for this decision.

  • Robert Allen

    right#1,

    It won’t take me long to call you a name; I’ll do it right off the bat: you are an asshole.

    Let’s say that you are right about Nagin and Blanco being derelict of duty, which is a lie but let’s assume it for the sake of argument. That does not mitigate one iota the blame of the despicable cheater who works in the Oval Office. Had that piece of shit been monitoring the situation, he would have seen the negligence that you claim took place. Were he a decent human being, he would have then moved heaven and earth to prevent the humanitarian disaster about to ensue. From Nagin and Blanco are blameworthy, it does not follow that your piece of shit president was not.

    And keep on gloating about who’s running the country. When America’s working people rise up your ilk will be singing a different tune.

  • http://http:rightnumberone.blogspot.com rightnumberone

    Robert,

    Apparently, the vast majority of the American Public simply does not agree with your opinion, but rather shares my beliefs.

    A CNN/USAToday/Gallup Poll which will be released today said only 13% of respondents believed that the problems in New Orleans after the hurricane were George W. Bush’s fault. Most, of course, said nobody is to blame, but state and local officials received most of the blame, with 25% of respondents believing that they are most responsible for the violent, and inhuman conditions and lack of evacuation before the hurricane hit.

    58% of people polled, in fact, think George W. Bush has done a “great” job, “good job” or had no opinion.

    So, while you are certainly entitled to your view of the world, the vast majority of the American public isn’t buying it.

  • Robert Allen

    #1,

    Go on, hide behind polls, you cowardly motherfucker. Are they the like the ones whose results your kind disparaged after the last presidential “election”?

  • http://html jon

    ALL OF YOU MAKE ME SICK. ALL OF THIS VERBAL JOUSTING IS DOING NOTHING. DON’T YOU ALL EVER GET TIRED OF OPENING YOUR OVER EDUCATED PIE HOLES. IT’S HIS FAULT, NO IT’S HER FAULT. HOW ABOUT IT’S THE HURRICAINES FAULT. SURE MAYBE THE FEDERAL,STATE AND LOCAL GOVERNMENTS WERE SLOW TO RESPOND OR DIDNT ACT, BUT HOW CAN YOU ACT 100% CORRECTLY WITH THE WORST NATIONAL DISATER OF THAT SIZE. I READ ALL OF THIS WORTHLESS CHATTER, BUT I DONT RECALL SEEING ANY OF YOU IN MY HUMVEE HELPING US GIVE CARE TO THE SICK AND INJURED,HANDING OUT FOOD/WATER OR FIGHTING WITH SNIPERS. BUT THE WORST PART ABOUT ALL OF THIS IS I SPEND ALMOST A YEAR IN IRAQ COME HOME TO BE SENT TO N.O. AND I SEE AND HEAR THE SAME CRAP THAT WAS IN IRAQ, IT’S LIKE I NEVER LEFT THAT TOILLET BOWL. DONATE MONEY,FOOD, GO HELP REBUILD OR SHUT UP.