God has nothing to do with it

September 1, 2005 by Jeff Jarvis

Franklin Graham — who gets too Goddamned many calls from media, who think that he represents religion in America — says on Fox News tonight that he knows why there are problems in New Orleans now: “This happens when we take God out of our schools and God out of our society.”

  • Skate

    Another example of the Big Lie. Religiosity is actually at an all time high in America, yet certain Christians try to score points by claiming to be an oppressed minority. Of course, if godliness keeps disaster and terrorists away it should be a simple matter to chart a map of godliness and show how it perfectly corresponds to a complete lack of natural disasters.

    Graham’s attempts to milk this human tragedy to advance his own religion and political capitol is despicable–just like Falwell blaming 9/11 on lesbians and abortions.

  • http://www.worldwiderant.com andy

    Well, hey, maybe if we hadn’t taken God out of the schools he would have been around New Orleans to, oh, steer the hurricane back out to sea or something. Instead, he was off in the Hamptons…

    I was reading blogs, with Fox News on in the background, when I heard him uttering that little bit of idiocy. I was dumbfounded.

  • kat
  • GR4Y

    They will teach this in schools soon: Of course, Meteorology is just one theory. Some scientists weigh in for another explanation of rain and storms: An inteligent cloud creator sends them to punish the sinners who act against his will, which is transmitted to us by his messengers Falwell, Robertson and Graham.

  • Angelos

    Intelligent Windiness, I believe they’re calling it.

    I forget which comedian said this, but if there is a god, he’s an asshole.

    I mean, mosquitos? WTF?!

  • California Dreamer

    I didnt know that Jesus was in the Mob, and that putting his ‘book’ into public schools was his ‘protection racket’

    I must have missed that part of the gospel during my 13 years of Catholic School

  • zhulick

    this is the most idiotic statement i’ve heard in a long, long time…

    this is especially so, when describing new orleans, with it’s large and very religious black population…

    maybe they weren’t religious enough?

  • http://www.pedersondesigns.com John Pederson

    The real answer has something to do with the fact that we aren’t flying the flags at half staff and cancelling football like we did in in 9/2004.

  • Ravo

    Most likely he was probably referring to events such as this.
    http://www.repentamerica.com/pr_hurricanekatrina.html

    We live in a world that has had natural disasters since time began. While God may not have sent them, many believe prayers can help in times of trouble. The hurricane did veer away a the last moment and spared total submersion. An awful lot of people had been praying. Ya never know!

  • John

    Is there anything else to say but “what a dick”.

  • Skate

    “An awful lot of people had been praying. Ya never know!”

    Wow! Only thousands dead! Prayer works great! That line works with every disaster no matter how bad it is. Millions dead? Yeah, but it could have been worse if people hadn’t prayed. Or in smaller cases, no matter how badly a person is hurt in an accident they often thank god for not being dead! Yup, they are actually thanking god for their injuries. Now that is a god with no accountability.

    Any all powerful god you have to beg not to kill innocent people a god I question the value of loving.

  • http://themiddleground.blogspot.com kat-missouri

    On the pain of being called a right wing religious nut, having watched that segment, too, I do believe he was referring to the uncivilized behavior of the “thugs” or “looters” or whatever your favorite word is for the crazies we now have running around New Orleans terrorizing people.

    His point was that God as a tool for morality and teaching that we should love our fellow man and be our brother’s keeper, is an important tool in civilization. Without that sort of morality (whether you want it from God or from other concept), this it what becomes of men left in situations where government and man made laws are destroyed: immoral, depraved and murderous behavior.

    Now, you may agree or disagree on that point, but I do think that such a good blog should refrain from casting the comments made out of context to the question and the discussion.

    He was not referring to the hurricane itself.

  • http://www.worldwiderant.com andy

    Jeff says, quite clearly, “why there are problems in New Orleans now.” I don’t take that to mean the hurricane itself, but the problems we are seeing in the aftermath (he had meant hurricane, I suspect he would have said “hurricane”).

    As for what becomes of men left in such situations, no “this” is NOT what becomes of them. The vast majority of those stranded are doing what they can to keep a grasp on civilization – they are not rioting and shooting and raping and the like. Unless everyone else who is stuck went to a Christian school, Graham’s argument is so much horsepuckey. Not that I’m surprised.

  • cisco

    kat-missouri’s interpretation of FG’s comment is correct. You may disagree with his religion, fine. But he’s not so stupid as to say that Katrina was God’s judgment on NO. Did he say that about Florida last year?

  • Ravo

    “Any all powerful god you have to beg not to kill innocent people a god I question the value of loving.”

    So do I.

    Once again…people have been killed in the ebb and flow of Mother Nature ever since the Garden of Eden. There are dangerous places, things, and people in this world.

    Some people pray and look to God to intervene in times of trouble. Some people just look only to those on earth to help. Most Christians I know do not believe God is deliberately directing evil, because the Jesus they know never did so.

  • http://ruthcalvo Ruth

    As Jesus prayed: “Not my will but Thine be done.” Good beginning, wouldn’t you say?

  • http://www.worldwiderant.com andy

    As Jesus prayed: “Not my will but Thine be done.” Good beginning, wouldn’t you say?

    When “his will” involves the loss of potentially thousands of lives and the devestation of multiple communities, then – uh – no, I’d say his will is a pretty crap one to be endorsing.

  • http://blogspotting.net steve baker

    Strikes me funny how people who profess faith in God could see him as so weak. I was taught that God was all powerful, omnipresent, and within each one of us. If this is true, no laws or regulations could ever keep God out of schools and other public buildings.

  • W.J. Jones

    A saw that segment in which Franklin Graham talked to Shawn Hannity (or was it someone else) via telephone, and Graham was talking about the lawlessness — murder, rape, greed — that is ravaging New Orelans.

    Graham was not — NOT — talking about why the hurricane hit New Orleans.

    I disagree with Graham that “taking God out of schools” is the main problem, though it’s a symptom of the problem. And, as C.S. Lewis reminded us, that symptom of sin in which pride is the worst offender.

    The mayhem on the coast shows us what happens to humans when we are left without a structure that demands good from us. When we are left to ourselves, we are our own worst enemy. And sending kids through schools without any preaching about God, good and evil, responsbility, etc. — especially the hellholes in New Orleans — produces what we are seeing.

    I think Graham’s words were a little cliched, but that doesn’t mean he was wrong.

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  • Bill Henry

    No, god did not cause this or any other event in the history of the world. Why? There’s NO GOD! Give it up folks! Religion and god BELIEF has caused so much human misery throughout the ages, but humankind refuses to let it go thanks to the false promise of life after death instead of the other way around. Jesus Christ? There’s another fictional being! I’ll leave you Bible fans/promoters with a couple of his “quotes” from “Holy” scripture: Luke 19:27: But bring those enemies of mine who didn’t want me to reign over them here, and kill them before me.” Matthew 10:34 “Don’t think that I came to send peace on the earth. I didn’t come to send peace, but a sword…etc. Remember what the great Robert Ingersoll said over 100 years ago: “Hands that help are better far than lips that pray”. Get off your knees and get busy; no one is listening!….BH

  • W.J. Jones

    Henry,

    You might want to talk to the Jewish historian Josephus about where Jesus ever existed, or perhaps Josephus didn’t exist either according to you.

    It’s funny that you use the quotes from a supposedly ficticous historical character to back up your claim that said character is really a bad guy, which is kind of funny. Isn’t that like quoting the Easter bunny or Santa Claus?

    What’s even more interesting is that, if the early Christians — did they exist — were going to make up a story on Jesus, they sure made it hard for people to follow the guy. And they sure paid a heck of a price with their lives to keep their little false religion alive and well.

  • Mark Holmquist

    I guess we will only truly know what happens when we die, but as for me I am a Christian and do believe there is a GOD! Of course everyone is welcome to his own opinion about GOD. Natural disasters do happen and man is left up to free will on how he acts in crisis. The GOD I know thru Jesus Christ is all powerful and I will always defend my faith. I have seen Him work in many ways but it is up to us to accept Him. He will not force Himself on anyone. So give GOD a break. Everyone is so quick to blame Him but then turn around in time of need and call on His name.

  • Bill Henry

    Jones, The VERY brief reference credited to Josephus was added at a much later date by Christian revisionists, according to credible historians. Yes, people have paid with their lives for centuries to keep their “little false religion alive and well”. Jim Jones (any relation?) and David Koresh come to mind as recent examples. BTW, I don’t know of anyone who has ever been tortured or killed in the name of the Easter Bunny or Santa Claus, unlike the multitudes murdered in the name of your “Prince of Peace”. I will leave you with a quote from Santa Claus to prove that he’s really great guy: Ho Ho Ho! Sure beats “kill them before me”….BH

  • David the Atheist

    W.J. Jones,

    Have a read this little piece about the alleged existence of the alleged miracle performing Jesus: http://www.atheistfoundation.org.au/seekingjesus.htm

    As for the mention of the ‘messiah’ in the ‘Antiquities of the Jews’ by Josephus’, it is accepted to be an interpolation on a number of grounds. Josephus is hardly likely to call someone a ‘messiah’ of another ‘faith’ and then remain in the Jewish religion for the rest of his life. Unless, of course, he was insane.

    The reference was not noted until after 300 CE and by another historical character, Eusebius, Bishop of Caesarea (Know as Eusebius the forger in many circles). If the very famous church father, Origin knew of such a phrase, he would have used it to the hilt to gain converts. His extensive writings do not mention it. Some might call this strange. The best explanation is that it did not exist in the body of the text of the ‘Antiquities’, but was later added.

    BTW, Eusebius was of the Arian school of thought at the time and did not ‘believe’ in the divinity of the alleged Jesus. Arian thought was that the alleged Jesus was only a product of creation, such as were Eve and Adam. Constantine had those with such ‘heretical’ ideas thrown out of the 2nd council of Nicaea and thus they did not have a chance to vote on the matter. Democracy has never been a strong point of the Catholic Church or any religion, if you think about it.

  • http://darylherbert.blogspot.com Daryl Herbert

    If Osama bin Laden is trying to kill Americans, we can kill his followers, right?

    So then if…

    Yeah, you’re way ahead of me ;-)

  • http://ruthcalvo Ruth

    Andy:
    ‘When “his will” involves the loss of potentially thousands of lives and the devestation of multiple communities, then – uh – no, I’d say his will is a pretty crap one to be endorsing’
    So you really think that the whole scene is God’s doing, the location of NO, the destruction of the marshlands, the non-evacuation when with all our knowledge we knew of the threat – you’re blaming God????? Maybe you might rethink your role???

    Bill Henry:
    ‘No, god did not cause this or any other event in the history of the world. ‘Why? There’s NO GOD! Give it up folks! Religion and god BELIEF has caused so much human misery throughout the ages, but humankind refuses to let it go thanks to the false promise of life after death instead of the other way around. Jesus Christ?’

    Misery and joy, and let’s face it, a lot of superstition is blamed on God and son – that’s not anything other than egotism on the part of a lot of people who want some one to blame, including those who’d rather dismiss God and son – and I refer you to the preceding message.

    A surreal tragedy is just that. We are as responsible ourselves, individually, as any other party – and I really think an adult responsible attitude would be to do what we could to alleviate it. Tomorrow you will have that opportunity.

  • Christy

    I think it’s odd that the religiously self-righteous always find ways to interpret “God’s” actions in their favor. One could just as easily argue that if there’s a God, the myriad disasters that have occurred since 2001 are an expression of God’s displeasure with our poor judgment in allowing Bush into office in the first place, and failing to remove him when given the opportunity.

  • Dan Butler

    How much time do you donate to inner city homeless shelters? How many ten year olds do you work with that are raped by family members? How many kids do you work with that are beaten to near death and lived? It’s a pretty weak argument when mere mortals do more for our suffering people than god does.

  • GS

    It strikes me funny that everytime something likes this happens, all of a sudden God is to blame for everything. Out of know where, people, who don’t even believe that a god or supreme being exists, come out and start shaking their fists at heaven. Odd isn’t it? Makes me think that people who claim atheism are the ones who are the hypocrites.

    Talk about hypocrisy. “I don’t believe in god. Now god, why did you bring on disaster like that?” That is what you atheist sound like. If you don’t believe in a god, why do you say anything at all? Sounds like atheism is a false religion.

    This is definitely a tragedy. My heart goes out to those in this crisis. But what about all the good things that happen everyday in this world that are a blessing yet we don’t come out and talk about them. We live in such a negative society, I believe partly because the media only focuses on the negatives of this world when there is so much positive out there. Now, I am Christian, so everyday that I live is a blessing from God. I have been blessed with a good job, a wonderful wife, food on my table, a roof over my head. God allows me to wake up every day and enjoy life, He gives me continual breath, and the list is never ending of things I should praise Him for. I praise and exolt the God of heaven and earth, and He blesses me everyday with the littleist things.

    I have suffered from many tragedies and situations in my life, and in the long run, because I never took my eyes off Him, I see now the end results of some of the things and see now why God allowed me to suffer and experience some of the things in my life. It was through those times that God showed His love to me the most (Romans 5:3-5, 1 Peter 4:12-13).

    It is my prayer that through this time of trouble for the people of NO, that the love of Jesus Christ is shown through the body of believers in helping all they can. This is a time of need, and may the eyes of millions open their eyes to the one who can meet their needs if they will allow Jesus to. By the way to the one who said that innocent people have died, no one is innocent.

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  • Tom in Alabama

    I find Franklin Graham’s comments particularly abhorrent because the christian churches in America are the first to cast blame during disasters and the last to accept responsibility for social illinesses accecting our nation. New Orleans, interestingly, is home to major Catholic and Protestant universities and seminaries, yet poverty and crime has been rampant there for generations. Perhaps if the churchs truly practiced what they preached, New Orleans would be a kinder, gentler city in which to raise a family.

  • GS

    Hey Tom, be careful or think about what you are saying before you are saying it. You say “christian churches in America are the first to cast blame during disasters and the last to accept responsibility for social illnesses affecting our nation”. That is not true. Prove that to a point. You need to research things out before you go saying things. There are A LOT of people in this world that claim to be christians. There are two kinds of “christians” in this world. There is nominal “christians” and there is true “christianity”. You know what nominal christians are? They are people who claim to be christians. They are “christians” in name only. Yes, it is sad because it makes the people who are true christians look bad.

    Those people who go spouten off on television and have their stupid websites are not truly christians. It is funny how the media focuses only those kinds of people. Why? Because this world thrives on negative publicity. You can’t have news without negative things. If you have news about good and happy things, than one is considered to be an idiot because we do live in a dark and saddened world. More good things happen in this world every day than bad things, but it is the few bad things that get all the attention. The thousands and thousands of GOOD churches that are doing good things by showing the love of Jesus Christ are the churches that are not getting any media, not that they want it. The news is being passed through the body of Christ of the great things that are happening in the south right now because of the hurricane, how souls are being saved and people are changing radically for the good because of this hurricane, yet the media does not and will not follow that news because it would hurt their stories. That is the truth.

    So I would incourage you to really think about what you say before you say it. Here is what I do. I RESEARCH a lot. Research out things before you go saying “christians” this and “christians” that. Remember, there are MANY people who claim Jesus but in name only. Just like atheists. There are two kinds of atheists. There are atheists who truly believe that there is no god, and there are atheists who claim the same thing yet believe there is a god because they go to their neighbor time and time asking for pray when something bad happens in their family. When things are going well for them, they mock their christian neighbor. I am telling you from TRUE life situations. Take Care.

  • windows1

    The funny thing is, the it just so happened that the BIGGEST gay and lesbian rally was supposed to take place in New Orleans just 2 days after the hurricane hit. And religion is at an all time high in this country, but how many live their life truly for Christ. There is a difference between be a True Christian and being religious. And you are right to an extent, most Christians won’t stand up any more for their Faith, that’s also why the Pledge of Allegience was just ruled to be “Unconstitutional”, thats why prayer isn’t allowed in schools, thats why God is being taken out of most things in the U.S. But, if people really look at Biblical prophecies they would see that the return of Christ is coming sooner or later. If you believe in Heaven or Hell, which one will you end up in. The only way to Heaven is by eccepting Jesus Christ as your personal Savior.

  • windows1

    Mr Henry, If you really believe there is no God then Seriously study prophecy in the Bible of the last days and then look at every thing that is going on in the world today.

  • Daniel Vaught

    Fuck Franklin Graham. He’s an asshole.

  • susan

    You are one angry group of folks….you are so sad….when did you feed the poor last?

  • Scott

    windows1, biblical prophecy you state is similar in many books, other than the Christian Bible, from what I understand. Anyways, I don’t know you, but this is what gets me. Many of you Christian types don’t realize when you tell someone whose questioning to take a “leap of faith”, that you are not only asking them to take a leap of faith that God, or some Supreme deity exists. You’re actually asking much more than that. You’re asking them to take a leap of faith to join “your team”, disregarding every other belief in the known world with little to no real solid evidence to guide which direction that you “leap”. Basically, it seems second nature that once you’ve established belief in some higher force, you automatically think that means they will be Christian. It’s that simple. End of story. —–I really hate when people act like this.

    I’m agnostic theist myself. Since nothing can be proven, one way or another, I see no need to live my life by interpretations of a really old out-of-date book, written by man, and highly subject to interpretation by man. However, unlike atheists, I lean toward SOME kind of force existing. I just think that, without more evidence, it’s not worth feeling too strongly about any one dogma. I have a sense of morals and everything I need to get by without it, anyway. Just mine. Peace.

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  • george

    i hate u guys u guys r dorks

  • kanwaldeep

    In this world all living things has rival (enemy) rat have cat ,dear-tiger, jungle-human being.
    But human being has no rival.Human being rival is human being. Human being never ever
    being a god this condition exits on all human being god in world .nature circle is very soft it never control by self its control by nature therefore nature is god

  • kanwaldeep

    I don,t think so any human can or could break the nature circle .
    Because nature rule are very stick no body (human) can break
    this rule if it is possible then out one millon is one human make god .

  • kanwaldeep

    h

  • kanwaldeep

    nature is god