We are not afraid

notafraid.jpg

A wonderful site of photos sent to London with a simple message: We are not afraid. Send your Photoshop messages of support to: pics@werenotafraid.com. [Hat tip: Pete]

My contribution:

binladenafraid.gif

We are not afraid

notafraid.jpg

We are not afraid

: A wonderful site of photos sent to London with a simple message: We are not afraid. Send your Photoshop messages of support to: pics@werenotafraid.com. [Hat tip: Pete]

My contribution:

binladenafraid.gif

  • Faramin

    He is afraid
    Oh, very “smart” contribution; as expected ;-)

  • tonynoboloney

    VERY COOL!!!

  • gg

    [yawn]

  • Linda Edwards

    You must be joking. What the hell does he have to be afraid about.

  • http://www.vonralls.com von

    Hey, morons, I think you’re missing the point.

  • Franky

    Yeah he must be terrified that following this attack and that given he is hiding in Afghanistan/Pakistan we’ll shortly be invading Aruba.

  • Derrick

    [yawn]
    A typical liberal reponse.
    Karl Rove is right.

  • Mumblix Grumph

    I like that a hell of a lot more than the “I’M SORRY!” page after the election.

  • Jon

    Bin Laden’s afraid? of what? Our army is hunkered down in Iraq dealing with trying to impose a democracy on people who don’t want it. And because of that, we don’t have enough people in Afghanistan either. Moreover, Pakistan is not even letting us look for OBL in its country — and Bush won’t do jack to force them to do so. Afraid? Yeah right.

  • Jon

    Bin Laden’s afraid? of what? Our army is hunkered down in Iraq dealing with trying to impose a democracy on people who don’t want it. And because of that, we don’t have enough people in Afghanistan either. Moreover, Pakistan is not even letting us look for OBL in its country — and Bush won’t do jack to force them to do so. Afraid? Yeah right.

  • david

    BUSH’S CONTRIBUTION:
    HE IS STILL ALIVE!

  • Pele

    I think he’s probably afraid that in the coming world war the Christians and Jews are going to have to completely crush Islam. What are we to do if they let these bombs off in our cities. What can I do that will stop them wanting to bomb me? I can’t become Arab and therefore will always be an infidel. The only thing we can do is crush them mercylessly.

  • david

    I think Pele took one too many headers or landed incorrectly on a bicycle kick.
    >and Jews are going to have to completely crush
    >Islam.
    Since you bring this up it would be interesting to find out how many US Jewish men or women in the military have been killed in IRAQ. My guess is a lot more “illegal” hispanics have been killed serving the country. Ohhh no was that too politically incorrect? I guess I’m an anti-semite for bringing that up.
    >What can I do that will stop them wanting to
    > bomb me? The only thing we can do is crush them
    Join the army if you feel so strongly about wanting to “crush them.” My guess is you won’t be doing that anytime soon.
    >in the coming world war
    Maybe it wasn’t a soccer ball that went off your head.

  • Pele

    What have Hispanics serving in the US military got to do with what I just said you fool. Tell me how will we achieve one world order without removing the stain of Islam from the planet. The truth is that if you don’t want to live with the threat of terrorism or live under Sharia Law there is only one solution.

  • http://oodja.blogspot.com Jersey Exile

    Jeff misses the point of the British response–when they declare to the world that they’re not afraid, what they mean is that they’re not going to let fear rule their lives, as we Americans so clearly have for the past four years (hence our media’s failed attempted to characterize these bombings as “Britain’s 9/11″). Duct tape, anyone?
    Just because our nation has been in a collective psychotic episode since September 11th doesn’t mean that the Brits will follow suit anytime soon. What the U.K. understands, having lived with terrorism for a lot longer than us Yanks, is that the primary objective of terrorism is to instill fear. Deny the terrorists their terror and they’ve lost, pure and simple. The classy and uncowed British response to the 7/7 bombings shows us to be the paranoid hysterical cowards we’ve become over here in America.

  • http://www.cautiousman.blogspot.com/ Mark@CM

    Just to follow up on the post by Jersey Exile -
    The U.S. gave into fear, and let the President bamboozle us into thinking that invading Iraq was essential to the war on terror. Now, by giving in to that fear, we’ve given the terrorists a training ground and a recruitment tool. On top of it all, American diplomacy continues to be devoted to drumming up support for the Iraq war, instead of actually uniting against terrorism.
    So, is Bin Laden going to be “afraid” now, because the world realizes that he’s been protected by the Iraq distraction? I don’t know. Tony Blair said the other day, in response to the bombing, that the “root causes” of terrorism had to be attacked. Are our right-wing pundits going to attack him now for being “soft”?

  • RedAssedBaboon

    “The truth is that if you don’t want to live with the threat of terrorism or live under Sharia Law there is only one solution.”
    Hmmm…is it the Final Solution? It is! Do I win a prize?

  • http://www.elflife.com/ carsonfire

    Funny, the only people I see in the US consistently in the grips of fear since 9/11 are the people who live in fear of the Bush administration. I have seen them in the last few years consistently projecting their own crazed fear and fuzzy thinking on everybody else… how else to explain their definition of sending in troops and striking back as “fear”?
    It was fear that we saw in *Spain*. It’s fear that we often see in the leftist French government. It is fear we see when idiots post pictures of themselves online saying that they are “sorry” — apologizing to brutes who burn bodies and decapitate innocents!!!
    It was not, however, fear that the Brits showed the world when they were barraged by Nazis — when they fought back — it was bold, unadulterated courage, and it is likely the same kind of courage they will show now.
    WWII was different? Not at all — we have our share of idiots who claim that FDR allowed or arranged Pearl Harbor in order to play on people’s fears, to get us into a war we didn’t belong in. Our Bush basher/9/11 theorists now are no better than those kooks. They are just in a better position to encourage each other thanks to the internet.
    And what did Nazis have to do with Pearl Harbor, anyway? One way or another, the struggle against Nazi Germany was bound to become part of the fight, just as the ongoing Iraqi problem was bound to become part of this struggle. To paraphrase a Democratic administration, it’s the friggin’ Middle East, stupid. If a Democrat were president, at least a Trumanesque Democrat, he would be just as quick to enter Iraq under the same circumstances, despite what you may think.
    Clue for the clueless: wisdom is not the ability to screw up a really good sneer on your face and shoot off a snarky zinger on a website; courage is not the ability to go “lalalalalalala-I-can’t-hear-you” when confronted with the dangers of the real world. These things are not wisdom and courage; they are hatred and foolishness.

  • Big Gay Al

    It is fear that leads people to believe we are one or two bombings away from living under “Sharia Law.” What little faith you must have in America! What little faith you must have in Western Civilization!
    Along these lines, here’s the perpetually paranoid Roger L. Simon:
    “In my bleaker moments I think this has created a situation even more troubling than those day in 1938 and 39 when many also looked the other way and that we may indeed be at the Gates of Vienna again.”
    http://www.rogerlsimon.com/mt-archives/2005/06/the_big_acquies.php
    If that is not fear, what is it? To compare the actions of a few raving lunatics to the organized evil of Nazism is certainly jumping the shark.
    Here is a poster’s rejoinder to Mr. Simon:
    “My God man, how do you find the will to leave your house in the morning? You and your ilk would have Americans bolting their doors, clutching at their breast in paranoia, cowered in fear at the shadowy menace of some swarthy other.
    This has been a nation of the courageous, of men who in their bleaker moments resisted the lure of an easy security purchased with liberty to actually make decisions that, though difficult and perhaps unpopular, made America a beacon for humanity in the world.
    Four years after Pearl Harbor, America was on the verge of defeating tyranny in Europe. Four years after 9/11, the America of men like you are still afraid.
    As Lance Mannion so eloquently put it, ‘Well, that’s why the Right hates the Left these days. We aren’t as afraid as they are. They hate us for our freedom from fear.’”

  • penny

    Hey, Mark, “afraid” and “acting out of fear” says you.
    Iraq is one piece, just like Afghanistan(once the largest terrorist training ground)was, in the larger landscape of the WOT. Iraq was an easy target and a deserving target. Invading Iraq was necessary to put our presence in the ME. You can’t defeat an enemy you don’t have access to. And we are face to face with them now in Iraq. Too bad you don’t get it like this guy does.
    How about linking to Blair’s “root cause” comments rather than paraphrasing?
    I wonder when was the last time that Bin Laden with a $25 million reward on his head had a good night’s sleep?

  • kl

    And then the response right below that: “Truth, you have multiple personalities–and they all, well, suck.”
    But I can understand the theory: If somebody attacks you, the best thing to do is just ignore them. Eventually they’ll just get bored and go away. I mean, it works on message boards and in blog comments, so why shouldn’t it work against bomb-planting zealots and their millennia-old grudges? Right?

  • Gunther

    Ah, it’s a great thing to get the work week started with a healthy dose of paranoia and ignorance. This site never fails to come through.

  • penny

    Just because our nation has been in a collective psychotic episode since September 11th doesn’t mean that the Brits will follow suit anytime soon
    Come again? Last time I looked the Brits have been in Iraq with us since day one. Maybe you missed that.

  • Dmac

    A funny thing happened a number of years ago, when terrorists abducted a member of the USSR’s foreign service office in Beurit, and demanded a large sum of money and the Soviet Union’s immediate withdrawal for his safe return. The KGB promptly abducted a member of the terrorist organization resposible for the kidnapping, and separated him from his gonads, sending their handiwork in response to the terrorist’s demands.
    The abducted diplomat was returned, unharmed, the next day. What do you think the Chinese will do when this happens to them in a few years? Whatever we and our allies do in the WOT now will seem like Mr. Rogers when others respond in like mannner. Enjoy the kid gloves treatment while you can.

  • penny

    What the hell does he have to be afraid about.
    Well, Linda, for starters:
    1)It only takes one greedy bodyguard or neighbor to cash in on the $25 million reward.
    2) No country has given him asylum and even a protecting despot can change his mind or lose power.
    3)The US is still hunting him down.
    4)He can lose.

  • Franky

    It certainly is true that we liberals often can’t react with the admirable fortitude shown by some conservatives, like say Brit Hume, Fox’s Washington managing editor, said: “Just on a personal basis … I saw the futures this morning, which were really in the tank, I thought ‘hmm, time to buy’.”

  • Ml4

    What the fuck is wrong with all of you? How hard is it to understand, “I am not afraid” followed by, “He is afraid” over a picture of Bin Laden. No one asked for ignorant political opinions based in hatred.

  • http://www.buzzmachine.com Jeff Jarvis

    If we weren’t afraid of us, why would he think he needs to fight us? He is afraid of freedom.

  • http://www.projectnothing.com Nathan Lanier

    I thought you meant he was afraid of the mirror

  • Franky

    “he is afraid of freedom”
    Exactly what evidence do you have for that? Does he also hate us because we love liberty?
    Londoners will not jump up and start screaming that Osama is afraid of us, they’ll take the route they’ve taken before – they’ll make jokes about Osama like they did Hitler and they’ll solidly work towards making sure it doesn’t happen again and that Osama and those responsible are killed or caught. Or maybe Blair should just go out and say “bring it on”

  • http://www.elflife.com/ carsonfire

    The Brits defeated Hitler by making *jokes* about Hitler — and vaguely working “towards making sure it doesn’t happen again”?
    In this reality, the Nazis were defeated by getting the crap beaten out of them militarily. You guys truly do exist in a different dimensional plane.
    Oh, and btw… evidence of extremist Muslims (including bin Laden) hating freedom would consist of oppressing women, executing gays, outlawing all other religions, etc. But again, this might differ depending on which particular leftist fantasy you’ve spun around yourself in order to shield out reality.

  • penny

    Or maybe Blair should just go out and say “bring it on”
    He already did when he joined us in Iraq from day one. You and clueless Jersy need to get up to speed on just where the Brits have been the past two years.

  • Franky

    carsonfire, don’t be a retard and a liar (yes, that’s tantamount to lying to insert the word “defeated” as if I wrote that when i mentioned joking about hitler) – i’m talking about the civilian reaction during the Blitz, IRA bombings and this latest bombing. Learn something before opening your mouth and check out the coverage of the blitz or even the reaction following the bombings and see how out of place something like “he is afraid” imposed on a picture of Osama looks – of course, why know something when Freepers and LGF can give you all the analysis you need?
    So since we’ve entered the realm of stupidty, let’s keep treking on – do those who oppose gay marriage also fear freedom? is that the one description you would use to describe it?
    God, it’s like you wingnuts rented Saving Private Ryan once and then decided confident in your education went on to solve the world’s problems with your trite little cliches and your bumper sticker-sized slogans – whats profoundly unforutnate that we must all suffer the consequences of your stupidty.

  • Franky

    Penny,
    are you from the DU? No one else has done as much on this thread to make the implicit connection of UK joining the US in Iraq and the bombings in London. It’s almost as if you’re aruging they deserved it…..

  • http://www.12sides.blogspot.com Horatio

    These images are designed to lift the spirits of some pretty traumatized people. A big screw you to everyone who wants to deny them even that. I did not and do not support the action in Iraq as the best way to fight terror, but neither I nor anyone else has to port their righteous frustration over the Iraq stupidity to become outraged at these images. Shit, at least they got the right guy and not a picture of f-ing Saddam.
    Dunk your head in some cold water and take it easy.

  • penny

    It’s almost as if you’re aruging they deserved it…..
    Only if your reading comprehension skills are substandard.

  • http://www.elflife.com/ carsonfire

    carsonfire, don’t be a retard and a liar (yes, that’s tantamount to lying to insert the word “defeated” as if I wrote that when i mentioned joking about hitler) – i’m talking about the civilian reaction during the Blitz, IRA bombings and this latest bombing.
    No, you were not talking about IRA bombings in the post I quoted. Classic attempt at fuzzing.
    You said: Londoners will not jump up and start screaming that Osama is afraid of us, they’ll take the route they’ve taken before – they’ll make jokes about Osama like they did Hitler and they’ll solidly work towards making sure it doesn’t happen again and that Osama and those responsible are killed or caught.
    The Brits of course are very tough; but while they made jokes about Hitler (as we did) and will make jokes about Osama (as we do), that had absolutely *nothing* to do with Hitler’s defeat and capture, apart from perhaps increased morale. However, the left’s humor these days have the *opposite* purpose, to decrease morale and encourage us to *lose*.
    “Solidly working towards making sure it didn’t happen again” means *military force* against the *entire army*. The fact that Hitler died in the end does not mean that the Brits simply skipped the fighting-the-war part and went straight for the one man. Getting the *one man* isn’t that easy, as has been proven in history time and again.
    When the left snidely jokes about Bush not getting Osama, they mean the military and intelligence workers, not Bush. Bush cannot “get” Osama from the Oval Office. All he can do is set people to work on it, and either it happens or it doesn’t.
    JJ’s Photoshop picture (my own impression — eh) isn’t that much different from the Brit tweaking of Hitler that you praise. Much of it was dark and desperate, especially when it seemed like Britain was on the losing end. A popular 70s show on the BBC — Dad’s Army — opens with a self-deprecating use of an old war ditty that asks “Who do you think you’re kidding, Mr Hitler?”, demonstrating with graphics that it was clearly Britain on the defensive at the time. But when the song was sung, it was clearly the exact same thing as jumping up and saying “Hitler should be very afraid of us”. In the end, it was true, and that is what is important.
    What this war humor does *not* do is lampoon the very idea of fighting back. The humor does not make the monsters into the heroes and/or victims, as the humor and rhetoric from today’s left does.
    Finally, your equivalency between executing homosexuals and barring homosexual marriage demonstrates perfectly how far you and others will go to make equivalencies just where and how you want them, regardless of logic and critical thinking. A general sense of what marriage is and should be in a society is in *no way* equivalent to a society’s rule that homosexuals be beheaded and adulterous women (always accused by their husbands) be stoned to death.
    Arguing policy is freedom; using policy to destroy those who disagree with you is not freedom. The difference couldn’t be more clear to people in the real world. Please consider joining us one of these days.

  • Franky

    I know the normal wingnut response is to bore your opponent to death by denying everything and then whistle loudly – so let’s clear this up: i never said that londoners “defeated” hitler with jokes, which you accused me of doing to set up a strawman – just apologise and we can stop boring everyone to death.
    Any culture that demands the beheading of homosexuals, stones for adultery is obviously profoundly backwards – but criticising that is different from spouting off cliches such as “he hates freedom”. Non-muslim African countries kill homseoxuals, indian tribes in South America kill adulterers – call it barbaric, call it stupid, but it’s not “oh they hate freedom” and then consider that you’ve made some irrefutable argument – unless you don’t ever intend to argue above the playground level.
    If you think that photoshop fits in with the general sense of londoners, then this maybe a time to take a break, cruise around the internet and learn something about how londoners think (and please, please don’t waste my time brining back one example that looks similar). You quote Dad’s Army and misunderstand the song completely – it’s not some fake machismo, it’s the stoicism of the British – we’re not going to let ourselves get invaded by your sort.
    I guess my larger point that prompted me to even post on the picture is the infantilization of the politiical discourse, that we comfort ourselves with things we know not to be true. Bill Maher is forced to resign for pointing out what all adults know that suicide bombers are not cowards, Dean is attacked for stating the obvious that we’re not safer with the capture of Saddam, that somehow Osama is terrified even as all indications are he got exactly what he wanted when he greenlighted 9/11.
    Those adults that want bedtime stories read to them by Bush et al are welcome to them, but don’t expect the rest of us to simply nod along.

  • http://headwideopen.blogspot.com Ben

    “Fear is the mind-killer.” – Frank Herbert
    Dune is geopolitics in a nutshell.

  • http://www.persianstudents.org/archives/001794.html Parthisan

    Sorry this may be a bit irrelevant, but quite funny:
    According to a report from the Iranian Labour News Agency (ILNA), Condoleezza Rice was left hurt and heartbroken after her Iranian x-boyfriend left her, and that’s the main reason for her strong anti-Iranian comments and policies.
    Check out my URL :-)

  • http://www.mythusmage.com/mythusmageopines Alan Kellogg

    If We Were Honest With Ourselves :)
    “I’m scared shitless, but I’m still doing the right thing.”

  • http://www.mythusmage.com/mythusmageopines Alan Kellogg

    BTW Ben it’s,
    “Fear is the little killer.”

  • David

    “He is afraid.”
    He is so afraid that he decided to attack the only superpower in the world without a country of his own, without an army of his own, without any allies who’d come to his rescue. Yes I’m sure he’s really afraid.
    >He is afraid of freedom.
    >Posted by Jeff Jarvis
    I guess that’s why GW has not tried to detain him. ;-)

  • Linda Edwards

    Penny,
    Bin Laden has already the goal that he set out to accomplish. He wanted to inspire as many fundamentalist Muslim jihadist as possible to strike out in a war against the West, and with a little help from Bush (can we say Iraq?), he did just that. And as long as bin Laden remains free, he inspires more and more everyday.
    No matter if he gets caught today, tomorrow, in ten years, the irrevocable damage has already been done. Bin Laden accomplished his goal. He won. Bush let him. People like you enable him. As long as we dismiss the fundamental principle, “Know Thy Enemy”, it’s gonna be damned difficult to put bin Laden six feet under where he belongs.
    He doesn’t fear us. He only feared failure.

  • Kat

    We need not fear the gutblowers–we need to fear the politically correct imbeciles who empower and condone the barbaric scum and turn tail and run and apologize to the criminals. And sing islam is peace to the tune of kumbaya.
    http://kotisivu.mtv3.fi/jjokunen/political_correctness_and_islam.htm

  • Yehuda Cohn

    Jeff:
    >”If we weren’t afraid of us, why would he think he needs to fight us? He is afraid of freedom.”
    This has to be the all time stupidest remark. It shows Jeff (and the administration) is totally detached from reality.
    How can we ever solve the terrorism problem when we refuse to identify its true causes? To say they hate us because weíre free is only to delude ourselves. They hate us because of our foreign policies. If we get out of thier land, theyíll stop.
    We American would fight by any means necessary to defeat an invading and occupying force in the U.S. And, we would stop if they left. Why is it so hard for us to impute the same motives on the terrorists?
    A key requirement of this righteous war is that all inconvenient history must be deemed irrelevant. “By accepting the facile cliche that the battle under way against terrorism is a battle against evil, by easily branding those who fight us as the barbarians who hate freedom, we, like them, refuse to acknowledge our own culpability,” journalist Chris Hedges has observed. “We ignore real injustices that have led many of those arrayed against us to their rage and despair.”
    As a Jew, all this talk about “one” “final solution” for the Arabs and Muslims sickens me. You people should be ashamed of yourselves.

  • Dean

    Kat:
    Why don’t you join the Army and help fight this war on terror, instead of sitting on your fat, lazy ass and complaining about it? (And you know you are fat, too.)

  • O’McSomething

    I don’t give a flying f*ck if he’s afraid. Where the f*ck is he? I thought he was supposed to be found dead or alive about four years ago……..we’re still waiting down here in lower Manhattan.

  • jimmy

    >>”He is afraid.”
    Jeff Jarvis is more afraid of getting bitch-slapped for being a loudmouth blowhard than is OBL of freedom.
    I seriously doubt OBL is afraid of “freedom” like Jarvis says — in fact, he doesn’t strike me as a person who fears much. He is wrong, but I doubt he’s a coward. Now, Jarvis on the other hand, well … my guess is behind his blog he’s just a fearful, fretful little man.

  • penny

    ….that somehow Osama is terrified even as all indications are he got exactly what he wanted when he greenlighted 9/11.
    If living on the run with a bounty on your head with a precarious dependency on others….if seeing your playground, Afghanistan, pulled out from under you….if failing to replace/maintain Islamic theocracies in Iraq and Afghanistan as the liberated voters went secular…..if dumbassed miscalculating the awakening of the world’s largest military and American public’s resolve to see you dead…..if failing to topple Saudi’s royal family…..was what Osama wanted, Franky, then he got “exactly what he wanted”.
    You seem to know more about Osama’s plan than I and have more confidence that it was executed thoughtfully. Was there more dumbassed outcomes that he wanted in my sequence of events?

  • Dmac

    It appears that some of the comments here are really going off the track – no documentation is offered for many poster’s opinions, just a lot of spewing of bile and spittle.
    If the only reason we’ve been targeted is because of our recent WOT efforts, then could someone please explain why the following occurred before 9/11:
    - bombing of Khobar Towers
    - 1st bombing of WTC
    - bombing of Marine base in Lebanon
    - bombing of embassies
    - bombing in Bali
    - bombings of local serviceman’s nightclubs in Germany, etc. The list is endless.
    The documentation of these actions is not hard to find, if only you choose to look for the correct sources (a simple Google search will give you everything you need here). As for the aforementioned “grievances” given as to why we’re being targeted now, I don’t recall anyone mentioning our work in finally stopping the mass Genocide of Muslims in the former Yugoslavia, despite being told by Europe to butt out. Europe never lifted a finger until Clinton stepped in and forced the issue to a head.
    I guess these efforts don’t count in some people’s calculations.

  • Franky

    Dean,
    because the pro-war crowd are happy to send of OTHERS to fight this war as hilariously demonstrated here:
    http://operationyellowelephant.blogspot.com/
    check out some of the recordings of the Young Republicans where they splutter about why they’re not fighting despite being combat age becuase they’re doing other things – if today’s Republicans could even spell the word “shame” let alone feel it they really would hang their heads. It wouldn’t be so bad if it was simply a bunch of draft-dodgers in the admnistration sending others off to war, but its how they claim to be the strong ones as opposed to cowardly liberals when most of them haven’t any intention of ever signing up nor of seeing their loved ones go off to fight in Iraq. Everyone knows recruitment is down, so its put up or shut up time.

  • Franky

    Penny – congratulations!!!!! with your remark that Iraq was an Islamic theocracy you’ve moved in to the Kat category – too dumb to argue with!!!!!

  • Dean

    Franky:
    Thanks. You’re the best.
    Please check this this article from the American Consevative — it’s short and great.
    http://amconmag.com/2005_07_18/article.html

  • Dean

    I agree with Franky. In fact, no one will even explain how wrong you are.
    But, you too should join the armed services and fight for what you believe in.

  • http://www.elflife.com/ carsonfire

    i never said that londoners “defeated” hitler with jokes, which you accused me of doing to set up a strawman – just apologise and we can stop boring everyone to death.
    How many times can you backtrack on the same statement in the very same thread in which you made it? It’s not like your previous statement is invisible because you pretend that it is.
    Again, in full:
    Londoners will not jump up and start screaming that Osama is afraid of us, they’ll take the route they’ve taken before – they’ll make jokes about Osama like they did Hitler and they’ll solidly work towards making sure it doesn’t happen again and that Osama and those responsible are killed or caught.
    This is you, Franky, not somebody saying you said it. And you say some definitive things here: (1) they’ll make jokes about Hitler; (2) they’ll make “sure it doesn’t happen again”; (3) they’ll make sure Osama and those responsible are killed or caught.
    (1) Either you’re saying this or you’re not. If you’re not, fine.
    (2) You are clearly fuzzing this to mean what you want it to mean, which is to simply be “a stoic” and sit and do nothing. Being a stoic does not require that you do nothing, and that is not what the Brits did in WWII. Read this very carefully, Franky, because this seems to be the one part you have the most difficulty comrehending: when… the Brits… were attacked… by Hitler… they… fought… *back*. Not against Hitler as a one-man entity, not simply the Nazis as a bad political movement, but the nation of Germany as a whole, and all her allies.
    If it is simply not stoic *inaction* you advocate (apart from the silly suggestion that withdrawing from the middle east will allow us to catch bin Laden faster), then explain it better. This is the one point that most clearly brightly neons your line of reasoning as absurd.
    (3) You imply that getting Hitler was the first thing in line, and again, he simply was not. There was a little something called World War II, first (you might find some passing reference to it in history books). And even after Hitler was defeated, there was a long process of occupying naughty regions and bringing freedom and democracy to them.
    What you’re trying to do is create historical unrealities to justify your politics of today. You create fantasy Brits to replace the real ones, who, when faced with Hitler, weren’t so base as to make war upon Germans in general, but simply picked themselves up, walked into Berlin, ignoring all of those pesky Nazis, and punched Hitler in the nose, then went home satisfied that they “got the right man”. You split hairs about styles of humor, defining one slap at Hitler as “stoic” and a slap at Osama as panicky and fearful. You draw bright lines between incredibly unrelated things like executing people and unfunny dope Bill Maher getting fired (who went on to have a decent career, anyway). You occasionally toss in the IRA (a domestic problem for the UK) in an attempt to confuse the issue of an international attempt to wipe out infidels and western culture.
    And your equivalencies are actually quite telling. Simply put, you reveal that people being allowed to have opinions you consider wrong or harmful is as bad as executions and stoning.
    I don’t know how you would “punish” us for our WrongThink, Franky, but I’ve seen this addressed at DemocraticUnderground many times. Right wing thought is criminal, and therefore some sort of revolution is required, and right wing politicians should be lined up and executed; those of us who will not recant should be imprisoned. Yes, another left wing totalitarian state.
    The excuses and equivalencies of the left in all of this are incredible and insufferable. A stoic has enough sense than to let muddle-pates distract them from the important work that needs to be done.

  • penny

    Well, Linda, if the root cause of terrorism is resisting it, as you suggest, I’ll let that bizarre logic speak for itself.
    “He doesn’t fear us. He only feared failure”
    Wow. How Clint Eastwoodesque. The way you’ve framed that seems to give Osama heroic qualities. And, as a nod to your root cause theme, let’s not forget his deprived poverty stricken Saudi upbringing in describing his persona too.
    Mc O, since US forces can’t violate sovereign borders like Pakistan and tribal areas get real hairy to get into and infiltrate maybe you could help out on a tourist visa this summer’s vacation. Why sit around impatiently stewing?

  • Linda Edwards

    Gosh Penny, Bush sure didn’t mind violating forders of the sovereign nation of Iraq, did he?
    I’m still waiting for the chickenhawks like you that supported our invasion to sign up for a tour or two in Iraq. Like my grandson did.
    Penny, you rant as though belligerence was a virtue.

  • Linda Edwards

    Or I should say, the borders of Iraq.

  • Franky

    Dean, believe me when you’ve wasted as much time as I have debating whether the sky is blue or not with the outer fringes of wingnutlandia, you sometimes just draw the line.
    carsonfire,
    Ok, so you’ve opted for boring people to death – again.
    “The Brits defeated Hitler by making *jokes* about Hitler” just point out where I wrote that and then I’ll apologise for calling you a retard and a liar. When you don’t find it, feel free to apologise for being a retard and a liar.
    “when… the Brits… were attacked… by Hitler… they… fought… *back”
    The UK declared war on Nazi Germany, carsonfire – this is basics of world history we’re going over here. Of course God alone knows how you now want present what until 15 minutes ago were acknowledged historical facts.
    The entire discussion was about how londoners will react to this bombing (the IRA carried out bombings of London, so hence we’ve seen how they react – sorry to state the obvious, but as you insist on pretending to not understand anything I write, I feel its probably best if I err on underestimating your knowledge rather than overestimating it) – londoners are not in need of this “Osama is scared”, they don’t need those bed time stories and I think it’s an affront to the city to imply they do. It’s not necessary to invent little white lies to rock ourselves to sleep to capture or kill those responsible for these attacks. And these little bed time stories, by the way, do have consequences – the average UK voter is simply more politically mature than the average US voter. Do you think Tony Blair could get away with never coming in to contact with the man on the street the way Bush routinely does, barring all but paid-up members of the Republican party to his speeches?
    The londoner will hope and feel these bombers are bastards and let’s get them. No bullshit “bring it on” is needed or “now they’re shaking in their boots” – it’s a job that hopefully will get done. If you need someone to hold your hand and give you a security blanket to get you through this, fine that’s your right, but don’t assume a city that has gone through worse does too.

  • Kat

    No, Dean, I am slim and trim–unlike you. And who are you going to join–Osama’s army?

  • Kat

    Here, I just found a good article on why they hate us–not the west, but all the rest.
    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/007083.php
    {Infidels. The prim and the libertine, le cru et le cuit, the wise man and the fool. It doesn’t matter. Infidels — that’s our original sin. And unless we submit, as dhimmis or as “reverts,” we will have hell to pay. Don’t think that putting your soul in an upright position will save you, will prevent those Muslims from trying to highjack the civilizational plane you are on — it won’t work.
    No, Mr. and Mrs. and Miss Infidel, and all the ships at sea, wherever you are, you can do no right by Islam. Don’t even try. }

  • penny

    Penny – congratulations!!!!! with your remark that Iraq was an Islamic theocracy you’ve moved in to the Kat category
    Yep. You nailed me. Poorly worded on my part:
    “if failing to replace/maintain Islamic theocracies in Iraq and Afghanistan as the liberated voters went secular”
    I meant to infer that Shiia voters could have gone theocratic in Iraq. Should have said “install”.
    Frankie, you got your gotcha monent. I’m happy for you.

  • Dean

    Kat:
    Right now, I don’t see the need to join anyone’s army. But, then again, I’m not calling for war either.
    So, when are you going to join?
    BTW, I surmised that you were obese because you spend so much time with your face in the computer, and I assumed you spend at least that much time if not more in front of the TV, too. Therefore, chances are your overweight. Also, I thought if you weren’t severely overweight, as vitriolic as you are about Muslims and war, I figured you would have already joined.
    I guess it must be you who is actually afraid.
    Boo! You fat, ignorant slut.

  • Kat

    No, Dean, I am not afraid of the insane and demented–people like you don’t scare me. I pity you.

  • Franky

    No, i didn’t mean that as a gotcha moment, I thought you were one of those who did believe Iraq to be an islamic theocracy.
    Now i see what you meant to write i understand what you were getting at and so I apologise for my post.

  • Dean

    Kat:
    In all seriousness, why pity me. I’m in great shape (5’10″, 175 lbs.), I’m wealthy and have a very high income, I have an excellent family with three home schooled kids (who have never seen TV) and a great traditional wife (who has never worked).
    AND, I DON’T LIVE IN FEAR OF TERRORISTS OR IRAQIS OR MUSLIMS. (I consider myself, and you, among the safest human beings who have ever lived and therefore, choose not to whine about terrorism, which is ancient.) In fact, I eat at a fine Lebanese restaurant at least once a week (and they haven’t poisoned me yet).

  • http://www.vonralls.com von

    …I surmised that you were obese because you spend so much time with your face in the computer, and I assumed you spend at least that much time if not more in front of the TV, too..
    We don’t need a democrat or republican leader. We need a fucking kindergarten teacher.

  • Yehuda Cohn

    “Terrorism is not an enemy. It cannot be defeated. Itís a tactic. Itís about as sensible to say we declare war on night attacks and expect weíre going to win that war. Weíre not going to win the war on terrorism. And it does whip up fear. Acts of terror have never brought down liberal democracies. Acts of parliament have closed a few.”
    Gen. William Odom (Army, ret.)
    C-Span
    Novenber 2 , 2002

  • penny

    Well, Linda, 911 was a big border violation and the resuling borders that got crossed after(and maybe more to come) are fine with me in the pursuit of Islamofascist thugs and the states that shelter/perpetuate them or wish us harm.
    I’m still waiting for the chickenhawks like you that supported our invasion to sign up for a tour or two in Iraq. Like my grandson did
    I’ll say a prayer for your grandson’s safety. I thank him for his decency and generosisty in facing this evil on my small grandsons’ behalf. If we don’t see this war through to the end we leave it for those little guys to inherit.

  • Yehuda Cohn

    penny:
    Maybe we’re just making the world a worse place for them to inherit. Maybe we’re creating more terrorism. Maybe we should stop skaking the hornets nest, so all our grandchildren can live in peace.

  • Linda Edwards

    Penny, first, on behalf of my grandson, thank you for your prayer.
    Second, I also wish we had followed up on the terrorists that attacked us on 9/11. Unfortunately, those people weren’t in Iraq.
    Third, I’m not one of the good-hearted people that think we should get out of Iraq now, though I certainly don’t fault anyone for wanting that. Iraq has become the terrorist breeding-ground capital of the world. But it wasn’t before Bush decided to invade.
    So now we’re stuck with it. So it seems to me that we we need to get someone in charge that has some degree of competence. Rumsfeld’s gotta go, he’s obviously out of ideas. But Bush couldn’t lead his way out of a paper bag, so I’ve got no confidence whatsoever that he’s capable to making sound and rational decisions about how we’re going to successfully conduct the war of terror. When I hear him say we’re going to stay the course, it just makes me cringe.

  • Yehuda Cohn

    An article from the American Conservative talks about a recently completed analysis of every suicide bombing since 1980, anywhere.
    Interesting conclusion: Almost all suicide bombings are committed by people lamenting occupied territory and are directed at countries that are occupiers. And, when the occupation ends, the suicide bombings end.
    Surprise: What people have committed more suicide bombing than any other?
    http://amconmag.com/2005_07_18/article.html

  • Dean

    penny:
    Let’s get back to not invading Pakistan. Why not? Everybody knows that’s where OBL is. Pakistan’s ISI supported him for 20+ years. Why haven’t we gone in there and looked for him? Why don’t we do it now?

  • penny

    Linda, no plan of action is perfect. Bush did what he could do with the options in front of him with no less considerations such as ME countries refusing to cooperate, an enemy that is murky and not in uniform, etc.
    Iraq isn’t a new breeding ground in my opinion. It’s where the cockroaches have now convened. A good thing. We have access to them in a specific area. And may they all be dead at our hands.
    We are stuck in this war, absolutely. The next Commander-in-Chief won’t be perfect either. I don’t see the present strategy as flawed as you do.
    You and I disagree on strategy, but have the wisdom to agree that evil surfaces in the lives of good people and it can’t be ignored. I’m convinced that Islamofascism has as profound a design on the fate of humanity as Hitler did. It ain’t going away. We failed to notice as Churchill stated “the gathering storm” decades go.
    We disagree. But, there is a comfort and respect, I hope, between grandmothers. I have found as I’ve gotten older less patience in some area and more in others. Strange, but a grandson in danger would freak me more than a son. But, you probably get this. Back to the WOT, as we say in psych, realitically, “there is no way out but through”……….or we cannot for our grandkids sake ignore/lose this fight.

  • http://bigdirigible.rubberdinosaurs.com big dirigible

    Comments. Same old, same old, “you’re fat,” “you’re ugly,” “you’re brain-dead,””your mother swims out to troops ships,” blah blah. Then I get to the really ugly stuff – someone who brags about his home-schooled kids who have “never seen TV.” Sounds like champion child-abuse to me. Keep them out of the public library while you’re at it – they might catch something, like a stray idea, maybe. And fer crissakes keep them away from that Internet thing – after all, that’s just a bunch of puerile twerps calling each other names.

  • Dean

    big dirigible:
    So you must think TV is good for kids? Or, anybody for that matter?
    I don’t. And, my kids are doing great, thank you. My 15 year old did Duke summer session last year and Columbia journalism this year — at 15!). Classical pianist, too.
    BTW, we have a study in our home with 4,000 books (a benefit of actually working for a living). We do have a home theater, too. And, my kids and I read WSJ and NYT every morning. We just don’t watch (mindless) TV, that’s all.
    Oh, and the internet ñ all three have websites of their own, that they created themselves. (I own a software company that makes currency trading platforms.) They trade stocks, commodities and currencies, too. (Maybe you can work for them one day, sweeping floors.)
    Hard to imagine. I know just what you mean. I have some loser relatives that feel that same way you do. Their kids are on Ritalin — yours probably are too.
    Keep watching TV, asshole.

  • Eileen

    Apparently *Mr. Big Shot* has entered the room. All of you, this instant!, bow and scrape very, very low until your foreheads sweep his floors.
    If you’re so wealthy with such a high income, why not share it with me? I’ll put it to good use. I’ll hire someone to fan me while I eat chocolates.
    In one breath you call someone a “fat, ignorant slut” and in the next speak of your “traditional wife (who has never worked)”. I’ll just *bet* she is and I’ll just *bet* she hasn’t. Do you let her take off her veil even inside the home?
    And now we learn you ‘possess’ 4000 books and a home theatre! The entire family reads the NYT every morning! I’m sure they’re all well trained at calling people a**holes, too.
    Maybe you could take a homeschooled charm course to save even more of that money for me.
    This is the first time I find myself *scared* on this thread.

  • penny

    Thanks, Eileen, for saying what I was thinking.

  • Eileen

    You bet, penny ;) And btw, your own words were perfectly clear and cogent without the need for explanation.

  • Eton Road

    Mr. Meledones,
    Watch your tone douchebag.
    Sincerely,
    Eton Road

  • http://www.vonralls.com von

    I don’t. And, my kids are doing great, thank you. My 15 year old did Duke summer session last year and Columbia journalism this year — at 15!). Classical pianist, too.
    That’s awesome! Does he/she have a girlfriend or boyfriend? Does he/she think for himself/herself? That’s great that your child can do things that most kids don’t get the opportunity to do, but make sure you don’t shelter him/her from the outside world either. Trust me, you shelter them, and they’ll end up fucked up no matter how hard you try or how much money you give them. It really wouldn’t hurt to let them be kids every once in a while. Lay off big, he’s got a good point…

  • http://www.vonralls.com von

    oh, and pray to God (even though you probably don’t believe in him) that your kids don’t end up arguing on the internet calling people “assholes”. After all ( do I need to say it?) arguing on the internet is like running in the special olympics…

  • chris

    Dean, most of these bozos probably school thier kids on PS2 and Faux news so its no surprise they are gonna put your situation down. Education in America is definently on the decline. Repukes are trying to bleed public ed dry and McMillan publishing(Bush friend) is rewriting history everyday to fit the Christain mindset. Your smart to educate your kids at home. More power to you. And the fact that you have a lot of money and a successful life is good news to me. I like to see truly passionate,intelligent people do well. Good on ya mate from a lefty Englishman.

  • http://tlathtolli.blogspot.com Jonathan

    It’s funny how we Americans aren’t afraid of anything, but because of reputed bomb threats, our troops won’t go to London.

  • http://www.stevesilver.net Stephen Silver

    Jeff-
    Your pal Sarah Boxer wrote a thing in the NYT about this- her response? It’s “a brutish flaunting of wealth and leisure.”
    http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/12/arts/design/12boxe.html

  • whodat

    Von-
    It sounds like Dean’s kids, regardless of creature comforts and educational possibilites, are already behind the 8 ball. The fact is that their father comes off as superior and condescending along with a proclivity to spew profanities. Not helpful in the child rearing process. Maybe he should have them look up “osmosis”, although I’m quite sure they know what it means already. Perhaps they should turn on educational TV and turn off their pompous father.
    Big D–post of the week.

  • Yehuda Cohn

    It seems like the Neo-cons have criticised Dean for everything he said, but not responded to his main point, which is that his kids don’t watch T.V. And, his question, is TV good for kids, or anybody?
    Amazing how Republicans and worshiperers of perpetual war can sound so, well, liberal when it comes to someone else having money. And, all of the sudden they’re shocked by strong language (but, not by O’McSomething’s). And, apparently, even agree with “big dirigible” that denying TV to kids is “champion Child abuse.”
    You people are strange.

  • nick

    It’s funny how the sight of a bin laden poster effects us. For the right, it’s a chance to giggle with glee at their obviously superior testosterone level. Dem’s are weak and afraid, we’re strong! We’re fighting the evil doers! No amount of logic will dislodge them from their self righteous perch of faux patriotism. Not the fact that Bin Laden is still alive, not the fact that after the maiming and killing of many thousands of american servicemen and women, we are no closer to getting the guys responsible for 9/11. None if this matters to the patriots. They are right and anyone that disagrees is a traitor and a coward. There is no way to carry on an intelligent conversation in this environment. Someday, a long time from now, when the history of this time and place is written, students will look back at this hysteria and wonder how could we have been so stupid. Just remember, not all of were that stupid. Just the ones in power their unthinking enablers.

  • nick

    One more thing…
    As we discuss the British, let’s keep in mind that in England, the war continues to be very unpopular. That being said, they do not question each others patriotism or love of country for being in disagreement. There, it’s quite possible to support their troops in harms way and oppose the war. You will not find any “freedom fries” in London.

  • whodat

    Amazing how Yehuda automatically assumes everyone who is criticizing Dean is a neo-con. As if opposing arrogance is divided by party lines.
    Yes TV is good. If managed correctly. Same as eating. It’s how you pick from the menu. Eat veggies and other healthy fare: good. Slam down fast food a few times weekly: bad. Same goes for TV. It’s all about choices.
    Yehuda then goes on to talk about “Republicans and Worshipers of war” and how they sound liberal when someone else has money. What are you talking about? Who then is strange?
    You were offended by an earlier post because of your Judaism. Hello? Islam is a Jew hating religion. They would like nothing more than to kill you. Be offended by that. We aren’t talking about innocent people like WWII. The terrorists are vile killers.
    And Dean certainly has his points but you can’t expect anyone to give them any heed when his 1st post is about calling someone fat and stupid and he continues with his name-calling in other posts.
    Anyway, I’ll bet he is afraid. He’s on the run. Deano–send him a few of those 4K books in your collection. =0)

  • seriously

    Wonderful? You call this crap wonderful? Cheeseball is more like it. This is cornier than the throngs of Americans who plastered their flag onto every object in site after the WTC bombings. Go back to your regularly-scheduled “me-too” diet of Live Strong bracelets, WWJD neck straps and vinyl ribbon decals that show you support the troops because you’re burning more gas by showing what a devout moron you are.

  • Yehuda Cohn

    whodat:
    >>>”You were offended by an earlier post because of your Judaism. Hello?”
    That’s right. Talking about the “final solution” for Muslims, or any people? Are you out of you mind?
    >>>”Islam is a Jew hating religion. They would like nothing more than to kill you. Be offended by that.”
    How do you know that? I been all over the world, and lived in several parts of the ME — Jerusalem, Beirut, Egypt. 99% of the Muslims I encountered were not “Jew hating.î They were just regular people trying to get by and could care less what I was. Besides, I’ve been called Yid in NYC — by a Brit, who, I presume, was Christian.
    Why do you say that Islam is a Jew hating religion and, presumably, not Christians? What about the KKK, the John Birch Society, etc., etc., etc.?
    >>>”We aren’t talking about innocent people like WWII. The terrorists are vile killers.”
    Thatís’ just what they said about Jews in Nazi Europe. We were vile, killers, thieves, gutter religion, etc.
    Well, remarks about the “one solution” and “final solution” for Muslims is not directed at terrorists, they’re directed at Muslims including innocent men, women and children.
    And besides, even if someone wants to perpetrate injustice against me, it doesn’t mean that I want to perpetrate injustice on them. That what Judaism teaches. Jesus wouldn’t do that either, would he?
    My guess is the only reason you tolerate Jews is because you think we’ll convert, and if we don’t, your God will kill us.
    Don’t try to talk me into hating an entire group of people, you’ll never succeed.

  • http://www.vonralls.com von

    …but not responded to his main point,…
    Funny, I thought his main point was that Big D was an asshole.

  • whodat

    We’re not talking about Christianity we are talking about Islam. “The Day of Resurrection will not arrive until the Muslims make war against the Jews and kill them, and until a Jew hiding behind a rock and tree, and the rock and tree will say: ‘Oh Muslim, Oh servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him!’” That is from the Hadith.
    I wasn’t advocating “final solution”. What I was saying , and maybe I didn’t express myself clearly, is that the Jews were innocent. The terrorists are not. And we are not going after all Muslims, only the terrorists. Kosovo and Kuwait prove that. You don’t have to hate any group of people. But the terrorists hate you because you live here and you are Jewish. Check this out: http://www.shalomjerusalem.com/jerusalem/jerusalem42.htm
    As far as my beliefs, I believe the Jews are the chosen people of God. And I also believe that Jesus is the messiah. In the Old Testament there are 300 prophecies of the first coming of the Messiah and 500 of the second coming, all of then made hundreds of years before the birth of Jesus and fulfilled to the letter in Jesus Christ.
    George Heron, a French mathematician, calculated that the odds of one man fulfilling only 40 of those prophecies are 1 in 10 to the power of 157. That is a 1 followed by 157 zeros. Compare it to this; your odds on winning the lottery are 14 followed by 6 zeros.

  • Faramin

    Yehuda Cohn,
    I am talking to you as an Iranian born as a Muslim. But I am not Muslim. I do not believe in religion, any religion. And I do believe the cause of many atrocities around the world, is directly or indirectly related to the religion. Religion, in my opinion, has always been a tool in the hnads of the powerful and it has always been exploited to their benefit.
    I have to say that I admire you, being a Jew and speaking of justice; true justice, not the bullshit that the stupid rightwingers always provide. Reading commentaries from people like you, is heartwarming.
    Let me make it clear. I do have problem with Israel as I do have problem with Saudi Arabia and Iran. But all I am talking about is their regimes, their governments and their policies and not the people. I can dislike a Jew as much as I can dislike a Muslim or a Christain, but their religion will have nothing to do with my dislike towards them. On the other hand, I can live a Jew as much as I can love a Muslim or Christian. And THAT too will not have anything to the with their religious beliefs. It all relates to how they react to the suffering of other people around the world. That’s is exactly why, a rightwinger is nothing more than a bug to me and I have no reason to have respect for him or her. A rightwinger, in my opinion, is either a crook or a stupid and I don’e see any other alternative. As a result, in any case, there is nothing for me to respect him or her.
    There are tens of thousands of Jewish activists who oppose the policies of Israel. Perhaps, because they put humanity before their religion or at least before their government policies. They sure are respectable to me and I am sure they are respectable to many people with same background as mine.
    As I said, I am not talking as a Muslim, but to be fair, and despite all the problems that I have with Islam, just like other religions, I have to tell you that I know that Judaism is one of the main religions mentioned and respected in Islam as is Christianity. There are talks about Moses and Jesus in many parts of Quran and it has been made clear in Quran that Judaism and Christianity are both from god and Moses and Jesus are massengers from god. As a result, there is no reason for a Muslim to hate a Jew, because s/he is Jew.
    When I was in Iran, I had quite few Jewish and Christian friends and I always considered them as my friends, regardless of what they belived in and I would like to think that they too had the same opinion about me.
    Once again, I am not talking as Muslim. Just wanted to share with you some of the things that I know as well as some experiences that I’ve had in dealing with people with different backgrounds.

  • Faramin

    As far as my beliefs, I believe the Jews are the chosen people of God.
    It doesn’t matter what you belive in (who care?). Your 19th century mentality is just as racist as it can be. Perhaps you are just not smart enough to even realize that how racist this stupid Bullshit is.
    I don’t know. If there is a god, I hope at least he is not as racist as you are. Otherwise why, according to you, did he choose any people over other people?

  • Faramin

    And Dean certainly has his points but you can’t expect anyone to give them any heed when his 1st post is about calling someone fat and stupid and he continues with his name-calling in other posts.
    When I put above together with below:
    As far as my beliefs, I believe the Jews are the chosen people of God.
    And knowing that both these “commentaries” came from the same person, I see how he is insulting not only one or two but 6B+ human beings minus 30 million “chosen” people and yet complaining about other commenter.
    How hypocrite!

  • Kat

    Then as a muslim, can you tell me why this guy believes he was right in beheading Van Gogh. Is he saying islam is intolerant and condones slaughter of innocents?
    http://www.peaktalk.com/archives/001413.php
    {He argued that he did not killl her son out of hate, “but I have chopped off his head according to the law that orders me to do so to everyone who offends Allah. I do not not feel your pain as I do not know what it is to suffer the loss of a child” } Van Gogh trial

  • Faramin

    As a Muslim?
    Read Kat, read!

  • Kat

    Well, you seem to be well versed in sugar coating the koran.{ I have to tell you that I know that Judaism is one of the main religions mentioned and respected in Islam as is Christianity. There are talks about Moses and Jesus in many parts of Quran and it has been made clear in Quran that Judaism and Christianity are both from god and Moses and Jesus are massengers from god. As a result, there is no reason for a Muslim to hate a Jew, because s/he is Jew. } If you were honest you’d admit the koran speaks of hating non muslims. Who the hell are you trying to hoodwink? How stupid do you think we are? Do you think many haven’t read your koran? You sound just like those apologists who say one thing in English and another in Arabic. I’m not willing to be your dhimmi and that is what the koran wants for me. Screw allah. He is not my God.
    Koran 17:16-17
    When we decide to destroy a population, we send a definite order to them who have the good things in life and yet transgress; so that Allah’s word is proved true against them: then we destroy them utterly. How many generations have we destroyed after Noah? And enough is thy Lord to note and see the Sins of his servants
    Koran 8:37
    In order that Allah may seperate the impure from the pure, Put All the impure ones (Non-Muslim), one on top of the another in a Heap and cast them into Hell. They will be the ones to have lost
    Koran 21:11
    How many were the populations we utterly destroyed because of their inequities, setting up in their place other peoples
    Koran 2:8-10
    In their (Non-Muslims) hearts is a disease; and Allah has increased their disease and grievous is the penalty they will incur, because they are false.
    Koran 58:5
    Those who resist Allah and His Messenger will be crumbled to dust, as were those before them: for we have already sent down Clear Signs and the Unbelievers will have a humiliating Penalty
    Koran 44:43-50
    Verily the Tree of Zaqqum will be the food of the sinful. Like molten brass it will boil in their insides,Like the boiling of scalding water Seize Ye Him and drag him into the midst of the blazing Fire Then pour over his head the penalty of Boiling Water
    Koran 2:39
    Those who reject faith (Islam) and belie our signs, They shall be Companions of the Fire and abide in it.
    Koran 2:89-90
    The Curse of Allah is on those without faith (in Islam) Thus have they drawn wrath upon wrath on themselves and humiliating is the punishment of those who reject faith (Islam)
    Koran 5:33
    The Punishment for those who oppose Allah and his messenger is : Execution or Crucifixion or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides or exile from the land
    Koran 9:35
    On the day when Heat will be produced out of the wealth in the Fire of Hell, and with it will be branded their foreheads, their sides and their backs- “This is the treasure that ye buried for yourselves, taste ye then the treasures that ye buried.”
    Koran 8:50
    If you could see when the angels take the souls of the Unbelievers at death. How they smite their faces and backs saying “Taste the penalty of the blazing Fire”
    Koran 17:46-47
    And we put coverings over their hearts and minds, lest they should understand the Koran, and we put deafness in their ears; when you commemorate your Lord (Allah) and Him alone in the Koran

  • Eileen

    Love to you, Kat.
    Beware of Arab doublespeak. Listen to Kat and read her…and her references.
    Kat has been cutting edge in the WOT for quite some time now.
    Listen to her. Read her cites. Please!!!!

  • whodat

    Whoa Faramin–read the post I was replying to. She had said that I probably only tolerate Jews and wish them either converted or dead. I offered my views only as a response to that.
    As far as labeling my comments to be both racist and hypocrite, I honestly don’t see it. I don’t see how you can equate my religious beliefs to someone’s name calling. There is nothing racist in them. As far as the Jews being the chosen of God, it certainly does not mean what you apparently think it means. I mean that God chose to reveal himself through their line. It wasn’t meant to be arrogant, sorry if you took it that way.
    As far as me not being smart enough…well ya got me there. =0)

  • Franky

    Latest wingnut – quote extensive passages of the koran to people who flat out say they’re not muslims. The genius just never stops!!.
    Next stop in wingnutlandia – quote scientology passages when discussing Osama bin laden!!!!

  • whodat

    Franky that was definitely a “Reading Is A Skill” post. If you read Faramin’s post, he was commenting on the Koran and “what’s made clear in it”. Kat then went on to use verses to disprove his statement. So it mattered not that he is or isn’t muslim.
    Keep posting sarcastic things about invading Aruba and Brit Hume and calling posters “to dumb to argue with”. You add nothing.

  • Franky

    Faramin writes he’s not a muslim and Kat begins her post with “Then as a muslim….”
    I apparently at least add a pair of eyes that does indeed read the posts upon which I comment.

  • Franky

    And then I just realised we’ve got the other genius here warning of “arab doublespeak” when Faramin clearly identifies himself as Iranian – yes these are two I definitely want to learn from.

  • Linda Edwards

    Franky, I’m not sure too many people understand the difference an Arab and a Persian.
    As far as they’re concerned, a Muslim is a Muslim, religion = culture, … period.

  • Franky

    Linda,
    Of course many people don’t understand the difference between Persians and Arabs, but then I’m sure a lot of those same people don’t come on message boards and spout off ludicrious crap claiming to know something about the region. But it’s not the simple ignorance that annoys me but the venom-tainted hate. While they’re sure to remain inconsequential as long as they remain so incompetent, do not mistake their motivations – they are people here who genuinely desire a religious war, who want to pit christian against muslim, us against the muslim world. As long as we keep ridiculing them, hopefully it will keep them on the fringes.

  • Kat

    The most dangerous muslim may be one who tries hard to deny being one–Massoui(sp) did that–he even pretended to be a Catholic so he could steal Baptismal certificates for his terrorist friends. Faramin may claim not to be a muslim–but he speaks like one and he is as anti-American as most muslim terrorists and he ass kisses the killers. I wouldn’t trust Faramin with my pet snake. I’ve read Faramin’s venom–it is like all islamic terrorist sites.

  • Faramin

    Franky says:
    Faramin writes he’s not a muslim and Kat begins her post with “Then as a muslim….”
    I apparently at least add a pair of eyes that does indeed read the posts upon which I comment.

    and then he says:
    And then I just realised we’ve got the other genius here warning of “arab doublespeak” when Faramin clearly identifies himself as Iranian – yes these are two I definitely want to learn from.
    Abslolutely Franky. These two are good symbols of the rightwing “briliance”. They sure are, well, “brilliant”. But you know what is even more interesting? It is the fact that these two extra ordinarily “briliant” individuals have been cursing at me and my comments for about two years. But still haven’t figured it out what is what. I doubt if they can distinguish their right and left hands from each other.
    Oh, BTW, what do you expect? Even their beloved dump president doesn’t know much about the world. I bet he still has difficulty pointing to Iraq (the country he has invaded) on the map.
    Kat,
    I wouldn’t trust Faramin with my pet snake.
    I am certainly glad that you don’t trust me. It’s certainly an honour not to be trusted by id…, Oh, I mean “briliant” people.

  • Franky

    Faramin,
    if you want a good laugh go over to the post entitled “snoblog” – taken some writings from the British nazi party: see if you can spot the difference between the nazis and kat’s writings.

  • Faramin

    Franky,
    I did. Thanks. But it is inetersting that this person who walks like a Nazi, and talks like a Nazi, …., is also a die-hard pro-Israeli. By “die-hard”, I don’t mean she is willing to die for Israel. She is only brave as long as she sends others to die for what SHE thinks is right. Oh, sorry, did I say “think”? Well, I didn’t mean it. It was just for the lack of better word.

  • Kat

    And we know you hope for the death of every Jew because we all know you are a Jew hater, aren’t you, Faramin–I guess that makes you more like a Nazi than anyone. Talk about dying for Israel–you’d likely be willing to strap on some explosives if it meant you could kill a jewish baby. You mixed up the words–I think you meant you like to see Israelis dying. And don’t bother denying it. If you walk like a Nazi and talk Jew hatred like a Nazi, you must be one. Anyone reading your stuff has read your Jew hatred.

  • Faramin

    Kat,
    Boring and desparate BS as usual. Don’t you just get tired of, ummm…. YOU? I wish you had a couple of active brain cells left in the hollow of your head. Then you would at least be able to experience the capability to “think” ;-)

  • Faramin

    Anyone reading your stuff has read your Jew hatred.
    Not anyone, except a couple of brainless idiots such as you and your beloved 007 Eileen.

  • Kat

    Dr. Faramin, brain special–ist, student of Josef Mengele.

  • Eileen

    Well, let’s see now. Faramin spews crap about Muslims and the Koran and I speak of Arab doublespeak. That’s because his attempt to mislead dovetailed so well with efforts by Muslims from many locations these days (most frequently, the ME) to misrepresent their religion to the rest of us infidels. I don’t care if they’re from Persia or Peru. More precisely, I should ‘probably’ have said Muslim doublespeak. But quite frankly, BFD.
    When I was about 15 some people told me they were from ‘Persia’. I said, ‘oh, you mean Iran’? I could see their surprise and – was it concern – that I saw through their effort to mislead someone of such a tender age. Last time I checked, Persia hasn’t been called Persia for quite some time now.
    Laughing at the Dynamic Duo, as always.

  • Eileen

    BTW, Faramin. Since you’re an apostate now you have a big X on your back. My Allah you denounced Islam on this very blog: “I am talking to you as an Iranian born as a Muslim. But I am not Muslim. I do not believe in religion, any religion.”
    Be afraid. Be very afraid.
    AQ: Faramin now lives in Toronto. He is an APOSTATE. Hasn’t he broken your Sharia law? Doesn’t ‘that one’ also call for death?

  • Franky

    “But it is inetersting that this person who walks like a Nazi, and talks like a Nazi, …., is also a die-hard pro-Israeli. By “die-hard”, I don’t mean she is willing to die for Israel.”
    Nazism is not so much a set of beleifs but a state of mind, in my opinion. It is the constant search for an external enemy to hate and that hatred gives the fascist purpose (of course mix with apocalyptic forecasts for the end of the world).
    I think Israel should be admired for many different reasons, except I share none of the reasons with the wingnuts. Israel is by far the freest country in the region but further it’s the most politically mature – can you imagine the existence of the same type of israeli peace groups but under the Syrian/Iraqi/Egyptian governments? No of course not. Now I hope both the Palestinians and Israelis can come to a mutually agreed solution because that conflict endagers us all – can you imagine how many muslims would abandon Bin laden without the issue of Palestine?

  • maggie

    The Brits are a fantastic people, not only do they have real guts but they are able to laugh at themselves too & see the world intelligently, & as it is !
    They are not going to be intimidated because they know there are more of them than there are terrorists.

  • bob

    Amazing that this thread has degraded into a muslim/christian/nazi rant! So much hate! If I was the devil I’d be loving it! But I’m not. As usual its Penny, Eileen and Kat spewing the madness! Keep it up! Juggle that ball for the devil. Bin Laden loves you! Your just the kind of people he needs for his Jihad. Forget compassion, forget understanding. Hate, hate, hate. You can do it. Lump them all together. Now stir. Good job. Where’s Maureen when we need her? Your small voices are being heard. Your important. Work hard for the devil. Forget love. Forget understanding. Don’t expand your mind any further. Just spew. You can do it. Has anyone read “The Screwtape Letters?” An excellent guide to your suffering. There are no losers here. Each soul is very important when your doing the work of the devil. Now carry on.

  • whodat

    Franky–
    It’s surprises me that you would write of the “venom-tainted hate”. Your posts always include barbs, putdowns and condescension. And you don’t stop there; you conveniently avoid replying to certain posts/comments that don’t suit your need to be right. You said “As long as we keep ridiculing them…” Exactly–that is your game. Thinking that people want a religious war–who exactly are they? You add nothing.

  • Faramin

    BTW, Faramin. Since you’re an apostate now you have a big X on your back. My Allah you denounced Islam on this very blog: “I am talking to you as an Iranian born as a Muslim. But I am not Muslim. I do not believe in religion, any religion.”
    Be afraid. Be very afraid.
    AQ: Faramin now lives in Toronto. He is an APOSTATE. Hasn’t he broken your Sharia law? Doesn’t ‘that one’ also call for death?
    That’s right Eileen. I am hated just as much by the Islamic fundamentalists as I am by you and Kat and other rightwing idiots.

  • Faramin

    Eileen,
    When I was about 15 some people told me they were from ‘Persia’. I said, ‘oh, you mean Iran’? I could see their surprise and – was it concern – that I saw through their effort to mislead someone of such a tender age. Last time I checked, Persia hasn’t been called Persia for quite some time now.
    I doubt you ever knew that Persia and Iran are the same. Don’t just pretend you knew that. You didn’t even know it until Franky pointed that out to you yesterday; Never mind when you were 15.
    Oh BTW, you mean you aren’t 15 now? Of course I am over-estimating you. 15 is a gross overestimation of your brain development.
    Really, Why do you think Iranians are reluctant of saying they are Iranian? May be some are. I don’t know. But can you blaim them? They might be afraid you might call the CIA on them. You are “good” at that. Remember?
    BTW, does “Proud Iranian” ring a bell? I am Persian, but before that I am an Iranian; a Proud Iranian. In fact, just to educate you a bit (eventhough it’s hard), Iran means “Land of Aryans” and not all the ethnics in Iran are Persians (which is a branch of tha Aryan race), but a vast majority of them, are Aryans. So the word IRAN is more inculsive and I find it even more meaningful. And yes, I am proud of that country’s history and heritage. Eventhough I hate those who are running it right now.
    Oh, sorry. I forgot that your knowledge of history is as low as your knowledge of geography. Well, I did say that it is hard to educate you. Didn’t I?
    Sorry to crush you AGAIN.

  • Franky

    whodat, I don’t reply to those who require additional help in understanding posts because I’m tired of the wingnuts “deny everything” tactics – so if it’s not clear from reading the comments here who would be desirous of a religious war then I can’t help you.

  • kat

    bob–it is you who works for the devil–the muslim devil…and he hates criticism of his sick ideology that involves killing innocents. He needs disciples like you to be an activist for his cause and you do it nicely…you condemn the critics. So does Osama–your hero, no doubt.

  • Eileen

    People like you, Faramin, couldn’t begin to ‘crush me’, although that would clearly delight you and your gang. As for veracity, I have no doubt you aren’t able to recognize it. Pity.
    Your drivel is just that. Like Franky, “you add nothing.”

  • Faramin

    …And you add “plenty”. Don’t you?
    Don’t you just laugh at your own comment?
    Oh, BTW, I agree. You are crushed, even before I begin. You are so very insignificant, Eileen. You are a joke. A not very funny, but still a joke.

  • Kat

    All you terrorists talk the same, Faramin. You learned your lessons in terrorist speak well.

  • Faramin

    Tissue Kat?

  • Kat

    Why? Did you pull your head out of the camel’s ass and need a tissue to wipe the shit off your face?

  • chris

    What a lovely exchange! God must be smiling on all of us!

  • pele

    So I’ve been off a few days because my girlfriends road in Leeds has been evacuated. It turns out the bombers made their bombs a couple of doors down from where she lives. I’ve lived in the same community as them for the last couple of years. What exactly were they so upset about that they decided to kill innocents? What the hell do they expect people to do to stop them bombing us? Fvcking evil stupid burning in their gods hell for eternity FOOLS.

  • whodat

    Franky-
    For someone who’s tired of the wingnuts, you sure post a lot about them.