Not here

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Not here

: A coalition of 9/11 families’ groups held a press conference at the World Trade Center today to call for exactly what I hoped they would when I spoke with Debra Burlingame last week: Do not build the International Freedom Center here. Do not distract from the 9/11 memorial and bring politics and polemics to this place. Let the memorial speak for itself.

I went into the city to attend the event. As I got there, Debra and other organizers were strategizing about the Port Authority, which had tried to move the group off World Trade Center property under the argument that the PA does not allow PA systems on its land. In other words, it doesn’t allow speech. Now that’s a fine lesson for an International Freedom Center, isn’t it. But the leaders decided that they would go ahead — let them kick us off in front of the TV cameras, a few said — and Debra brought out a small, portable speaker and microphone from her purse. She’s amazing.

The families, always with the pictures of their lost loved ones, began changing: “9/11 memorial only” and “take back the memorial.” And then a few family members spoke.

One appealed to the American people to join with them and take back the memorial. Anther said that lessons of a freedom center would be fine, “but not here, not on sacred ground.”

“Nobody is coming to this place to learn about Ukranian democracy and be inspired by the courage of Tibetan monks,” he said.

Another spoke for many when he said that the remains of his family member were never found. “We have no place to go,” he said, “we have no place to grieve” — other than this place.

The sister of a firefighter pointed to her 2-and-a-half-year-old daughter and asked whether the lesson of what is to be built at the World Trade Center will be that “9/11 is something to be ashamed of.”

“We will make sure this site is not violated a second, time,” she said.

Another warned that the Freedom Center will make the site a “magnet for protesters.”

“The IFC msut go elsewhere,” he said.

Edie Lutnick, sister of the head of Cantor Fitzgerald and of one of the victims of 9/11, said she was not comfortable speaking and the first time she did so was at her brother’s funeral. But she was most eloquent here, thanking Americans for their shows of support — their children’s letters, their flags, their quilts — and said this was not the families’ tragedy but our tragedy.

“Now we have another tragedy — forgetfulness. 9/11 is being buried underground.”

The event did what it was supposed to do: It brought out the press and made the International Freedom Center an issue.

: On the way back home, I heard Mayor Bloomberg dismiss the concerns expressed there. Tonedeaf, that man is tonedeaf.

: The New York Post today:

Burlingame, a director of the World Trade Center Memorial Foundation, specifically charged that Tofel and others are planning to host exhibits at Ground Zero devoted to such wholly off-topic issues as the alleged “genocide” of Americans Indians, the fight against slavery, the Holocaust and the Soviet Gulag.

Worthy subjects for study, each and every one ó but not at Ground Zero.

Tofel, for his part, insists that the controversy is all about nothing.

But when Cavuto asked, specifically, whether the museum would feature “atrocities Americans have committed,” Tofel repeatedly refused a direct answer.

“Atrocities is such a loaded word,” he stammered, the weasel.

Tofel needed to say ó unequivocally ó that the museum will not impugn or disparage America in any way, shape, form or manner.

End of discussion.

But that probably would have been a lie. In fact, the IFC seems destined precisely to become a multimillion-dollar bash-America palace.

Real Americans, after all, have no trouble recalling that Ground Zero is the site of an unspeakable atrocity committed against them. They’ll wonder by what perverted logic is it appropriate to use the spot to dredge up shameful, painful episodes in American history that have nothing to do with 9/11.

Yet that is transparently Tofel’s plan.

Slavery in America, for example, “probably” would be focused on, he said, because a key goal is to “inspire an end to hatred, ignorance and intolerance.”

Let’s be clear: America did nothing to deserve 9/11. Indeed, the fanatics ó infused with “hatred, ignorance and intolerance ó targeted the United States precisely because it stands as a monument to freedom and the material prosperity it produces.

The Islamists hate freedom because it threatens their power and underscores their failures.

And they hate material prosperity because it has eluded their culture; thus they must deny it to everyone.

So destroying the iconic evidence of the fruits of U.S. freedom ó the Twin Towers ó was vital to sustaining their credibility.

Which is why it would be outrageous for the IFC to entertain even the possibility that America somehow deserved what it got on 9/11. And yet that seems to be exactly what is going on.

:Sign the Take Back the Memorial petition here.

  • Ed Koch

    Those sleezy America haters are back at work. The MUCH better idea is for a “We Hate Islamic Terrorists” memorial. Don’t apologize for what everyone is thinking.

  • anonymous coward

    um, whoa! America did nothing to deserve 9/11? The Islamists hate freedom?
    I would agree that the families who lost relatives on 9/11 didn’t deserve it. But America has an interesting history of manipulative and exploitative foreign policy that has spiraled out of control since the 1970’s. Maybe it the fact that America acts as if it were entitled to Arab resources, rather than American ‘freedom’, that Islamists hate.

  • Kat

    Well, what is it that Arab islamists hate in Nigeria and the Sudan–Black people? What excuse do you find for those bastards to excuse genocide like you can excuse the massacre on 911? People like you make me puke–your name fits you–a coward.

  • Eileen

    “America did nothing to deserve 9/11? The Islamists hate freedom?” Um, yeah, unless you call the Islamists’ aim of TOTAL WORLD DOMINATION REGARDLESS OF COUNTRY, POLITICS OR RELIGION the fault of the U.S., and unless you consider the multifarious and nefarious atrocities of sharia law your preferred brand of ‘freedom’. Get educated and come out of that dark hole you live in, you anonymous coward.
    I am sick to death of anti-American rhetoric and lies by the likes of you.

  • http://michaelzimmer.blogspot.com/ Michael Zimmer

    Eileen- do you think the Islamists really want “total world domination,” or just to have the rest of the world keep out of their nations/affairs?
    (hope this doesn’t come across as “anti-American” …just meant to be a probing question)

  • Ptolemy

    Would it really matter Michael? Would the difference excuse any action or predjudice on the part of these Muslim bigots? Perhaps yes, in your mind?
    Its good to see the American people standing up to the cultural dictators for a change. Congratulations Jeff

  • http://floyd.best.vwh.net/weblog/blogger.html Floyd McWilliams

    do you think the Islamists really want “total world domination,” or just to have the rest of the world keep out of their nations/affairs?
    Subjugating Afghanistan and the black Sudan is a funny way of keeping the world out of your affairs.

  • http://911memorials.org/ roger

    We have waged a campaign against this Center for two years not only because of its fuzzy mission but also because it will be the dominant structure at Ground Zero and will be bigger than the memorial voids of either footprint.
    We are grateful to Debra’s drawing attention to the issue.
    But don’t rest too easy. It’s Republicans circling the wagons to defend it.
    http://911memorials.org/?p=226

  • Eileen

    Michael Zimmer,
    YES as to your first question of me. Kat and many others, including myself, have provided all sorts of links and reference materials which establish this truth. Please do your own research if you don’t believe it. I don’t consider you to be unAmerican for probing, but I do consider anonymous’ words to be a stupid attempt to foment anti-American hatred. And I ABSOLUTELY question which cave he/she writes from.
    Any and ALL Americans who wish to make US/THE U.S. the bad guys in the war on terror are sadly, woefully mistaken. AND STUPID!!!!!!! Sorry, but I’ve had my fill of the misinformed, ill-advised, uneducated, politically myopic, reality challenged, anti-American crowd. That was not directed at you, Michael. Anonymous coward (no truer name) is on my mind.
    It’s time for All of us to get EDUCATED about our enemy! And the enemy AIN’T US/THE U.S.! Take Kat’s Darfur challenge. Get real. Get it!
    May the so called ‘freedom center’ be moved to an ‘appropriate’ venue; that is, if there even IS such a place which exists which ‘should’ proudly desecrate the only nation on Earth which has successfully fostered freedom.
    Good for you for attending the event, Jeff. If I had been in the neighborhood…

  • http://www.hfienberg.com/kesher/ Yehudit

    I thought I saw you there, Jeff. I brought out six of my NYC Metro Liberal Hawk homies. I wish the PA system had been better. i couldn’t hear any of the speeches but they weren’t for us anyway, they were for the numerous media.

  • http://www.hfienberg.com/kesher/ Yehudit

    “Eileen- do you think the Islamists really want “total world domination,” or just to have the rest of the world keep out of their nations/affairs?”
    Someone once said that the lesson of Hitler should have been that when someone writes that he wants to exterminate you, you should believe him. Read what the Wahabists write and get back to me. They’ve already been infiltrating and taking over mosques around the world and pissing off the local Muslims, as well as trying to drive out and exterminate Christians and Jews.

  • http://victorysoap.us/ Andrea Harris

    How interesting. Slavery is endemic to the Muslim world (see: the Sudan, etc.), but the IFC promoters are going to focus on the awful evil of American slavery, which was abolished over a hundred years ago.

  • http://punditdrome.com Scott Ferguson

    I signed the petition. You should, too.

  • http://confederateyankee.blogspot.com/ Confederate Yankee

    “Eileen- do you think the Islamists really want “total world domination,” or just to have the rest of the world keep out of their nations/affairs?”
    I’m not Eileen, but I’ll provide the answers just the same:
    Qurían 8:39 ìSo, fight them till all opposition ends and the only religion is Islam.î
    Qurían 8:7 ìAllah wished to confirm the truth by His words: ëWipe the infidels out to the last.íî
    Ishaq:204 ìëMen, do you know what you are pledging yourselves to in swearing allegiance to this man?í ëYes. In swearing allegiance to him we are pledging to wage war against all mankind.íî
    These quotes are from an anti-Islam site and provide a very disputed translation, but they are essentially accurate. Islam seeks a global caliphate, a nation-state where the only law is Sharia, the law of the Taliban and al Qaeda.
    Does this answer your question?
    Jeff, thank you for keeping up awareness. We cannot allow these blame-America-first types to win. Please continue to stay on this. I know I will.

  • http://www.coldfury.com/Sasha/ AL Maviva

    Conceded, America has flaws. It is, however, about the best thing going with respect to a model for plural society, governed by consent of the governed.
    Moreover, an attack by the Islamacists was inevitable, American flaws notwithstanding, simply because the Islamacists enjoy a masturbatory fantasy of sweeping the whole world under a tide of Salafist violence. Convert to radical Islam or Die! That’s their message, their grievance and mission. America only stands out because, in Mark Steyn’s words, we have too much bible thumping, and at the same time too much hot gay phone sex. We are too Christian, too Jewish, and too secular and too depraved all at the same time. We’re the nail that sticks up further; it’s natural that a carpenter seeking to remake the world would swing his hammer at us first.
    And repeat this koan: stop asking why. Just accept it.

  • http://michaelzimmer.blogspot.com/ Michael Zimmer

    Thanks for the responses.

  • Cosmo

    Jeff: Thanks for staying on top of this.
    Annonymous wrote: “Maybe it the fact that America acts as if it were entitled to Arab resources”
    No. Actually, we pay for those resources, at a price set not by the market, but rigged, ‘en cartel.’ Furthermore, countries throughout the region are recipients of various forms of U.S. assistance. Can you show me an instance where this nation demonstrated such ‘entitlement’?
    Annonymous wrote: “But America has an interesting history of manipulative and exploitative foreign policy . . .”
    No kidding. All nations act in their own interests. The U.S. the only nation routinely criticized for doing so.

  • Drew’smom

    This memorial is for the memory of our innocent and brave souls in the WTC – not for speakers like Ward Churchill to come and debate in the Freedom Forum on why they did it !!!! Ward may have a hard time getting off from CU as it takes awhile to indoctranate young minds or maybe Dick Durbin could come and talk about our military abure at Gitmo.

  • Ethan

    The whole thing is too goddamned politicized and frankly it’s pissing me off. You have Soros et al trying to push one agenda, and you’ve got the right trying to push another. This is sad.

  • Mike

    Just curious Ethan, what is the right’s agenda here?

  • http://jackdied.com/ Jack Diederich

    Did you see Michael Posner’s (Human Rights First director) letter to the editor in the WSJ yesterday?
    “…challenging the U.S. government’s departure from the rule of law in the wake of 9/11: changes that include constraining individual liberty and permitting coercive interrogation and unlimited detention.”
    So he confirms the worst about the IFC.

  • http://bigdirigible.rubberdinosaurs.com big dirigible

    Jeff, you’re a strange case.
    Judging by the sections of the Post column you chose to quote, you’re dead right on this issue. The despicable “why do they hate us,” surrender-at-all-costs types are working their depradations everywhere, even on the carcass of the WTC, and they have to be opposed, for the good of the US, Western civilization, and damn near everything we consider worthwhile.
    Yet on the same page you feature a silly item like “Take a Memo,” which makes it seem like you suffer serious attacks of that old liberal-arts-major refusal to grasp some very basic concepts.
    There’s no time stamp on your entries, and maybe there’s a big interval between those two – enough time to fiddle with your medications, perhaps. That might explain it – in which case, I sympathize (for what that’s worth).

  • http://www.relapsedcatholic.blogspot.com Kathy Shaidle

    I still think it would be fun if somebody Crazy Glued the locks on opening day. Or, well, use your imagination. Just musing, natch…

  • Ethan

    “Just curious Ethan, what is the right’s agenda here?
    Posted by Mike at June 21, 2005 10:28 AM”
    The right-wing in America wants history to record 9/11 as an act committed by Satan’s progeny that should not require any introspection our part. Fine. That’s a legitimate argument, and one that I can certainly sympathize with. But it sickens me to see the same old battle lines being drawn on this. If you don’t think this whole thing is going to be politically exploited by both sides of the aisle–that’s just willful naivete.

  • Patricia

    I have one question: if anti-memorial family members feel so strongly they are reduced to sobbing at the protest, and the planners simply want to make a point that could be made anywhere, (and is made every day in the media and academe), why can’t the families have their way?
    Why here?

  • Ethan

    Well, gosh, I don’t know–are you saying that because some survivors are emotionally opposed to the IFC that ALL survivors are? Are you saying that a majority is opposed? Are you saying that a vocal minority should be allowed to control the fate of the site? What, exactly, are you saying?
    And your comment that “the same point” is made by the media and academe every day strikes me as particularly disingenuous and indicative of exactly what I’m talking about. That’s just an utterly political, ideologically rooted statement.

  • whodat

    Ethan- nice prose but she’s right.

  • Mike

    The right-wing in America wants history to record 9/11 as an act committed by Satan’s progeny that should not require any introspection our part.
    And this has what to do with a 9/11 memorial to those who perished that day? You’re the one bringing left/right politics into this. Just because people are arguing against this freedom center doesn’t make them right wing. And its not political to want a memorial to be just that, a memorial, not a statement of man’s inhumanity to man nor an explanation of freedom.
    Remember Ethan, the people that died that day were INNOCENT! They didn’t anything to provoke their deaths. Why should we insult their memories by comparing what happened to them to other incidents in the world’s history? That’s the only battle line for a memorial as I see it, and it has nothing to do with being Republican or Democrat.

  • Ethan

    I know very well, as I will never be able to forget, that those who perished on 9/11 were innocent. Indeed, after writing the line which you excerpted, I wrote very specifically that I sympathize with that position. Either you did not read what I wrote, or you are purposefully attempting to attack me on baseless grounds. If the latter is true, shame on you.
    I’m not sure how placing an event in context “insults” the original events. Please, enlighten me.
    Finally, claims that something is “non-ideological” are usually completely ideological. If you think I’m the one drawing lines in the sand–after a protest, a Burlingame editorial in the WSJ, and Soros on the Board–you’re delusional. The lines are being drawn.
    I suppose that I am now against the IFC as well. Not because I have stopped believing in it, but because we–myself included–are clearly not ready to approach that day with anything resembling a sober mindset, one that will be needed to construct a proper memorial for eternity.

  • Tony

    Why should we insult their memories by comparing what happened to them to other incidents in the world’s history?
    I don’t understand how that “insults their memories.” First, the IFC is not the memorial, never tried to be, and won’t be. Its just another building. Is there some sort of buffer zone of 3 city blocks that we need to make sure nothing is put there that might “insult the memories” of those who died?
    Second, there is value in thinking about the significance of 9/11 in a broader context beyond the singularity of the event and those who lost thier lives. A center that celebrates freedom (both its existence and the fights for it) helps us contemplate – and honor – those who died in its name.

  • http://www.two--four.net/weblog.php Billy Beck

    “anonymous coward”“I would agree that the families who lost relatives on 9/11 didn’t deserve it. But America has an interesting history of manipulative and exploitative foreign policy that has spiraled out of control since the 1970’s.”
    Fine, then. If you want to put up a “museum” dedicated to what you think, then put the goddamned thing in Washington.
    “There is a time and a place for everything,” and, for what you’re talking about, WTC ain’t it.

  • Ethan

    Billy: do you by any chance actually in NYC?
    Support for such a center in NYC would be considerable. This I ensure you.

  • http://healthy-elements.com Lynn

    A center that celebrates freedom (both its existence and the fights for it) helps us contemplate – and honor – those who died in its name.
    What a load of BS! They didn’t die for freedom, or die in it’s name.
    They were simply Moms and Dads, brothers and sisters, sons and daughters, lovers, husbands and wives who like the rest of the population, thought they were going to be spending their day earning their daily bread as usual and returning home to eat and sleep and be with their loved ones.
    Instead, monsterous acts blew them into oblivion.
    The “significance” is that it happened. There can be no valid “why” for this atrocity.
    It’s time to stop the politically correct crap.
    Even Ed’s suggestion (first post) would be preferable to the IFC

  • Tony

    Lynn – if it was such a random act of senseless violence, with no significance other than its occurance, why have a large-scale, publically-funded memorial at all?

  • http://michaelzimmer.blogspot.com/ Michael Zimmer

    “It’s time to stop the politically correct crap.”
    That just seems so myopic.

  • Jim Rockford

    No sane and objective person would find any reason to conduct the mass murder on 9/11. At the time the US had recently given aid to Afghanistan and the Taliban for Opium eradication and had armed through Pakistan some of the Taliban leaders. Pakistan itself had received considerable US assistance and aid.
    There was no “state” interest at all served by 9/11. The only interest it served was medieval Islamism, the intent to kill as many Americans as possible to cause the “collapse” of what Islamists feel is a corrupt, godless society (they want the brutal tribal thuggery of the Taliban world-wide). No sensible person would think that any interest of an Islamic state would be served by that attack yet it was conducted with the assent of the Taliban by their main financial backer.
    These are the objective facts. Islamists hate the US for it’s values, hence they try to murder as many of as possible even when it is objectively against their own interests. Leftists, Liberals, also hate America and the values it stands for. George Galloway called for an alliance of Muslims and Leftists to “destroy” America economically, culturally, and militarily. This is the dream, to have an endless series of boots kicking faces in, shared by Leftists/Liberals and Islamists.
    The 9/11 Memorial should do ONE thing and one thing only. Commemorate the lives lost and that horrible day (like the Arizona Memorial). That’s it. Let the Hate America crowd go somewhere else to hate America. The IFC is akin to insulting apologies for Japanese Militarism on top of the Arizona. It basically takes the position that the victims were “little Eichmans” who deserved it.

  • http://erasend.blogspot.com kingdom2000

    I don’t know if a “freedom tower” needs to be built, but making just one gigantic memorial not only seems a waste of precious land in NY but also overkill. What happened is tragic and will never be forgotton but to turn it into useless land so that surviving family members have an excuse to not move on with their lives is not productive.
    Also, what I would like to hear is not the opinions of the newly rich victims with their five or so millions of dollars but the unspoken victims who suffered but didn’t get rich. You know all the rescue workers that risked and in some cases gave up their long term health in the effort. Something noone speaks of. Their opinions count, why does no one ask them what should be done?

  • Ethan

    “These are the objective facts. Islamists hate the US for it’s values, hence they try to murder as many of as possible even when it is objectively against their own interests. Leftists, Liberals, also hate America and the values it stands for. George Galloway called for an alliance of Muslims and Leftists to “destroy” America economically, culturally, and militarily. This is the dream, to have an endless series of boots kicking faces in, shared by Leftists/Liberals and Islamists.”
    What a joke. THese are objective facts? What one idiot says is proof that all liberals and leftists (which are not the same things!) hate AMerica because of its values? Let’s work with this logic: because Pat Buchanan is a homophobic anti-Semitic Nazi apologist, all conservatives are on the side of the Nazis?
    That isn’t even thought. Frankly, it’s libelous, hateful, and divisive. I’m sure you think of yourself as a patriotic individual–yet what sort of patriot hates nearly half of his fellow citizens?

  • Mike

    If you think I’m the one drawing lines in the sand–after a protest, a Burlingame editorial in the WSJ, and Soros on the Board–you’re delusional. The lines are being drawn.
    No Ethan, you are the one making that line political. You see this as a left/right issue, I don’t. You seem to be saying that everyone lining up to condemn this IFC is right-wing and that is not the case. Don’t blame the right because some idiots (who happen to be liberal) want to place a stupid freedom center that has nothing to do with 9/11 at ground zero.
    I’m not sure how placing an event in context “insults” the original events. Please, enlighten me.
    Tell me something, what does freedom have to do with 9/11? What does the Holocaust, slavery, LBJ, MLK have to do with 9/11? How do those things put this memorial in context? What’s insulting is that the way the plans are now (according to Tofel who is in charge of this thing) the freedom center would serve as a buffer between the street and the memorial to the victims of that day. What do those events have to do with the innocent victims and heroes of that day? Absolutely nothing. The Holocaust was a much greater tragedy than this, as was slavery, so why put them together? It minimizes and distracts from the events as they occured that day. I find that insulting to those who should be memorialized there, and I’m not the only one.

  • Mike

    First, the IFC is not the memorial, never tried to be, and won’t be. Its just another building.
    Tony, see my post above about its location. You would have to walk through this freedom center to get to the memorial for those that perished that day. It’s insulting that the two should be placed together. Put this damn thing somewhere else. When I take my 5-month old daughter there someday, I want her to learn what happened on 9/11, not about slavery or the Holocaust. I can take her other places for that. Why can’t other people see that?
    Second, there is value in thinking about the significance of 9/11 in a broader context beyond the singularity of the event and those who lost thier lives. A center that celebrates freedom (both its existence and the fights for it) helps us contemplate – and honor – those who died in its name.
    That is one of the most ridiculous statements I’ve read here. Like Jim said above, you don’t see this sort of thing at the USS Arizona memorial. Is there an exhibit of the WACO debacle at the Oklahoma City memorial, I mean that’s why Timothy McVeigh claimed he bombed that building. The whole idea of this freedom center being anywhere near this memorial is stupid. Put your broader context in a book or a paper about the events leading up to that day. They don’t belong in a place that memorializes those who perished.

  • Patricia

    That’s right, Mike, what does it have to do with 9/11 and why does it dwarf the site that does commemorate 9/11? Why does it have to have a “context” shoved down our throats? Yes, Ethan, every day in academe, where I work, and in the media and the movies we see and hear a litany of our faults. The IFC will memorialize those–but I’m sure will omit the story of Islamic terrorism, the 19 fanatics who blew us up, the training camps in Bekaa and Afghanistan, honor killings, the systematic destruction of culture and of the human psyche in the countries under theocratic rule, the poverty and slavery and failed states? I don’t think so.
    If they want to have a “freedom center” somewhere else on their dime, fine. It’s an insult to every terrorist victim. Sadly, it’s also a fitting symbol of our own self-loathing.

  • http://healthy-elements.com Lynn

    if it was such a random act of senseless violence, with no significance other than its occurance, why have a large-scale, publically-funded memorial at all?
    Tony, it was far from random, and reason could never justify it. It was purposeful and cruel and aimed at innocent people whose “crime” was only that they weren’t a part of the group committing this hideous act.
    As Holocaust Memorials keep us from a complacency about Hitler, a 9/11 memorial keeps the world aware of the mentality of those behind heinous terrorist acts.

  • Kat

    This is not a Right versus Left thing–it is the Far Left Lunatics versus all the normal people on both Left and Right. Once these idiots get their building, there will be no end to what these nutcases will display–I am sure there will be a Gitmo ‘gulag’ and pictures of moonbats marching against America and for terrorists. This will become “We are sorry” memorial–we are sorry we didn’t turn the other cheek and get a knife in the back. They will honor scum like Rachel Corrie and Jane Fonda sitting on an enemy tank praying for American deaths. This will become a leftist loon bin that I’d be ashamed to step into. Muslim terrorists will gain resolve from this horseshit museum. The message it will give them is that the 3000 deserved to die.

  • portia

    I would like to point out that whining about the US’s “exploitative” policies since the seventies ignores the fact that there was a war on — the cold war. yes, the US manipulated foreign nations — to keep them from the far greater and more exploitative manipulation of the sov union. And don’t tell me the communism was not more dangerous. I grew up in one of the disputed countries and if I hear one more American liberal tell me that “both systems had flaws” I am going to puke. Communism was nothing but the same old exploitative machine under pseudo-idealistic attire.
    Bringing up America’s “manipulation” is lefty code for telling us we shouldn’t have defeated communism. Well, we did and I’m frigging well glad. I just wish all of you ambivalent idiots who cheered the evil while it raged would grow up or die already, instead of making excuses for your positions and supporting the new evil.
    And muslim jihad is nothing but fascism under another name. For heavens sake, when Hitler invaded France, did we pause and wonder what France did to bring it on? No. The free world shuddered. On 9/11 the free world SHOULD have shuddered. These people have been at war with us for a thousand years. They’re still at war with us. Technological and other inovations make them newly dangerous. Stop appeasing them or treating them like cute pets already. THEY attacked up. Remember that. And fight back.
    THAT is what the memorial should be about.

  • christopher

    “What sort of patriot hates nearly half of his fellow citizens?”
    Howard Dean, for one.

  • http://911memorials.org roger

    Follow up and interview video with Debra:
    http://911memorials.org/?p=228

  • Ethan

    “Yes, Ethan, every day in academe, where I work, and in the media and the movies we see and hear a litany of our faults.”
    Are you a professor? Can you point to academic examples of faults that are not perfectly justified? Movie examples? “Media” examples?

  • Patricia

    Actually, I am a part time instructor. I’m not going to be provoked into an argument about the worth of the US with you–nice try–but the original unaswered question still stands: why there?
    I believe you when you say a majority of New Yorkers would want such a center. I’m still asking, why there, in a cemetery?
    I won’t get an answer, so let’s stop clogging up his comments.

  • Ethan

    If you’re going to oppose building the IFC, you have to oppose building everything on the site except the memorial. And that would make for quite a depressing site. Furthermore, it’s not really a cemetary in any meaningful way–hallowed ground, yes, cemetary, no.

  • Vince Leta

    The revisionists and moral relativists are at it
    again, and they are as myopic in their delusions of the U.S.A., as are the Islamists that hate the Western Democracies. They think the American people are a bunch of dumb hicks because they see themselves as morally and intellectially superior to all except others that have their world view. I would hope that these propagandists would be forced to present to the American people their plans for this hallowed ground. I am angered and disgusted that these people are possibly taken seriously.