Do we smell a trend here?

Do we smell a trend here?

: Two important things happened this week, I think:

1. Spanish Muslims issued a fatwa against Osama bin Laden. At long damned last, someone did it.

2. The majority of the European Union parliament declared Hezbollah to be a terrorist organization (for which Hezbollah, of course, blames the U.S. and Israel). [via the amazing Publiuspundit]

Is this another icejam breaking? First, the people in the Middle East start to assert their rights. Now Muslims and Europeans are recognizing the real bad guys in this world today. It sure smells like good news.

  • Gregg

    Two important things happened this week, I think
    “You think” they happened this week? Not sure?
    :)

  • http://RuthCalvo Ruth

    That really ought to wake up a lot of people who have been condemning Islam as being basically terrorist in nature, and condemning Europe for being inclined to support its own economic considerations above any common humanity we share. Hopefully.
    It’s been a bleak week for bright spots, but these are among the few.

  • http://oliverwillis.com Oliver

    You mean the same week we decided to treat the aforementioned Hezbollah as a legitimate governmental organization? The same Hezbollah who killed over 200 marines in Lebanon?

  • tonynoboloney

    Again I am surprised that no one has commented on this issue. Maybe I am out of the loop when it comes to what is important and what is not.
    That other muslims have spoken out against Osama bin Ladin “At long damned last” is very significant. Europe and the rest of the world needs to believe that most Muslims find the methods of this jihad completely unacceptable in a civalized society. Ostracism and condemnation of the people who commit these crimes will after time create a climate where such behavior is no longer tolerated. Osama and his ilk would soon find themselves in a vice between principaled Muslims and the rest of the world, in an ever narrowing grip where it would be hard to escape. Speaking out against Osama and hezbollah sends a strong, positive message that others can join in the “fatwa” against islamist terrorism.

  • richard mcenroe

    But, but, Hezbollah is a major political force! Just ask Gandhi!
    Oliver

  • Faramin

    1. Spanish Muslims issued a fatwa against Osama bin Laden. At long damned last, someone did it.
    At least they did it. When is YOUR side going to do the same about YOUR extremists and YOUR fascists? I don’t think you would like that, would you?

  • http://victorysoap.us/ Andrea Harris

    When is YOUR side going to do the same about YOUR extremists and YOUR fascists? I don’t think you would like that, would you?

    Aw, Faramin, we were just going to round them up and sic you on them. You’re our Sekret Weapon of Mass Destruction™! Go get ‘em, boy! Rarrr! Rarrr!

  • http://www.buzzmachine.com Jeff Jarvis

    Andrea, don’t feed the troll, please.

  • http://oliverwillis.com Oliver

    I think we should destroy Hezbollah. Just like how we should destroy Al Qaeda. But the evidence is overwhelming that George Bush doesn’t want to or can’t.

  • Kat

    Why don’t muslims destroy Al Queda and Hezbollah? If they stop treating terrorists as martyrs and treat them as criminals, they won’t be rushing to find an occasion to blow their brains out. I commend the Spanish muslims–about bloody well time. Now I’d like to see the Arab world to condemn the Darfur genocide.

  • http://www.iraniantruth.blogspot.com Nema

    Kat,
    Why don’t you destroy the KKK or neo-nazis instead of allowing support for them to ferment. Plus I’d like to note that muslims have for years been denouncing the activities of Osama bin Laden and al-qaeda. Public statements have been issued even before 9-11 by Islamic groups in the US and Europe. Of course, its easy to gloss over when we’re too busy Islamobashing. Jeff, I wish you’d put more spotlight on Progressive Islamic thought. There are plenty of amazing sites which have been around for years like http://muslimwakeup.com/index.php, http://www.hijabman.com/, etc. The longer you guys depend on the mass media to tell you whether or not Muslims are against terrorism, the longer you’re going to be deceived. The majority of Muslims have always been against terrorism, the question is when the West is going to feel comfortable recognizing and accepting that notion.

  • http://divedi.blogspot.com/ Dimitar Vesselinov
  • Kat

    Nema–I don’t make martyrs out of the KKK (currently suffering its greatest decline since the 1940′s)or the neo Nazis(handful of idiots as members)–I denounce them as do most people. When they commit crimes they are arrested. I don’t scream kkkphobia or racism when they are jailed. I don’t give out candy, dance on the street, and Heil Hitler. I love Jews.
    Actions speak louder than words–you can’t kill those poor Sudanese and Darfurians, the Pandits,Rwandaians, Nigerians, Copts, Kurds, Armenians, etc. and then claim to be against terrorism while burning women with tires around their necks or beheading little kids . The whole muslim world needs to condemn these actions. And yes, I believe there are peaceful and good muslims.

  • http://www.iraniantruth.blogspot.com Nema

    Just like you can’t kill blacks, Muslims, Arabs, Serbs, Iranians, and claim to be supportive of human rights. The whole Christian world needs to condemn these acts. They need to condemn the killing of Ugandans by the Lord’s Army, or what about the killing of blacks in South Africa (whoops I’m sorry we were ok with that), the Congolese, or Muslims in Chechniya. What about Rwanda and Sudan? How can these be a result of Islam when in Rwanda the Hutus were Christians slaughtering Tutsis? Or in Sudan where the blacks and Arabs are muslims?
    The fact of the matter is that there is no inherent problem with Islam. Nor is the majority of Muslims jihadis. Thats the way in which you wish to view them, not reality. Trust me, I know. I’ve had the opportunity to live in Egypt, Jordan, Israel and the occupied territories. I’ve visited Iran, Qatar, and Morocco. I have a bit of knowledge about the area and I can tell you that your perceptions are not only false but counterproductive. Muslims don’t make martyrs out of terrorists. After 9-11 some news channels ran pictures of Palestinians jumping and celebrating in joy. Ironically that footage was taken two years before hand during a celebration for an Islamic holiday. Of course there was no footage of the thousand of Iranians who held a candlelight vigil.
    In 1979, during the Iranian Revolution, ABC camera men shot footage of a crowd of Iranians burning the American flag. What wasn’t reported was that the reporters themselves handed the crowd the American flag and the lighter and that the Iranians considered the whole thing to be a joke. There is a huge gap between reality and what the media portrays, particularly when it comes to the Middle East. For you and Jeff, who primarily get your news from American stations and news mediums, there is a sensational failure to understand the truth concerning Muslims. That truth is that Muslims for the most part and in the majority condemn terrorism, condemn Al-Qaeda, condemn the Mujaheddin, and condemn war.
    Of course you’ll never know that truth because its neither in your interest or the interest of those who you obtain information from to give you that truth.

  • dries

    nema – those weren’t killed for not being christian. not being a muslim is however a sufficient reason to be killed in some gruesome way.

  • Kat

    You are right, I meant Ugandans, not Rwandans. I had just read about an incident in the Rwenzori region. Sorry.
    I wish you were right about jihadis–I hope you are, but I have a lot of doubts. The LRA is on the US terrorist list. Personally I think they are a bunch of lunatics. No one supports them. They attack Christians–they are not Christian.
    Some danced on campuses in America, let alone in Palestine. And I see a US flag burned weekly in Palestine and in Syria those goose stepping soldiers march on infidel flags.
    The Muslim world needs to condemn these acts and not blame Jews and Americans.
    * murdered 200 Nigerians because of a beauty pageant
    *incinerated 3000 in the US
    *incinerated 200 in Bali
    *tried to kill 800 in a Russian theatre
    *USS Cole,WTC 1 and numerous killings of Americans abroad
    * persecuting the Copts in Egypt;
    * in Sudan, massacre and enslave the black African Dinkas;
    * in Lebanon, terrorize the Christians;
    * in Nigeria, butchered Biafran Ibos and oppress the Christians;
    * in Iraq and Syria, secular radical regimes

  • Eileen

    Kat, m’dear One,
    You are quite awesome. Kudos forevermore! If I were back in law, I’d definitely want you on my team. Your research skills and your brain are impressive beyond the beyond.
    Bowing down to you, m’dear. And sending love.

  • http://RuthCalvo Ruth

    Pardon me for interrupting this mutual admiration society for neocons, but in this a.m.’s washpost.com, there is a wonderful editorial by a New York-based columnist for the pan-Arab publication Asharq al-Awsat (her Web site is http://www.monaeltahawy.com) which mentions the existing civil societies in the Arab world that are carrying on a program of quiet strong movement toward freedom, and which mentions:
    “Brave Arab men and women have for decades toiled, often without credit, for the sake of rights and better lives for their compatriots. Their work must be acknowledged and supported. The conversation about change in the Arab world must be about them and about ordinary Arabs, not about scoring points for or against the Bush administration.”
    Our support for the struggling elements for civilization in the Arab world would be stronger and help more if we didn’t have so many elements trying to condemn the muslims as a community of murderers.

  • Faramin

    Eileen,
    You were in law? Perhaps that’s why your justice system … .
    I am not surprised at all that you admire kat so much that would have him as a “researcher”. That’s only indication of the weak system in which YOU were one element of its “Law and Order”. How many people did you refer to CIA when you didn’t like them, as it was the case with me?
    I read the long list of empty lines written by kat. What is clear is that there is not even one line mentioning what Christians or Jews have done to others. Like nothing of that sort has ever happened? Anyway, I won’t comment on them as I might not know all the facts and obviosly kat is not a trustworthy source, as he knows no words but cursing at Muslims. But despite my dislike of the regime in Iran, I do know that Christians and even Jews ARE NOT PROSECUTED in Iran any more than the non-Christians and non-Jews. In fact considering their population, they have more representation in the parliament. You might want to question the validity of the Parliament. Well, that would be fair. But the same parliament, valid or not, is for Muslims as well.

  • Faramin

    2. The majority of the European Union parliament declared Hezbollah to be a terrorist organization (for which Hezbollah, of course, blames the U.S. and Israel). [via the amazing Publiuspundit]
    Let me have a few words about Hezbollah. They have lots of similarities to their counterparts in Iran who are undemocratic. They are fundamentalist Muslims and as a result a threat to any free society, as are the fundamentalist Christians and Jews. There are many negative aspects of Hezbollah and I dislike them too. But my dislike is not at all the same way your dislike of them is. You are calling them bad guys because they fought the Israeli occupiers. If it wasn’t for hezbollah, Israel would still be occupying southern Lebanon and they were kicked out of Lebanon by the same Hezbollah. That mus be enough ground for you to call Hezbollah bad guys. Anybody who fights the occupiers for his/her country, must be “bad guy” in your terminlogy, if the occupiers are Americans or Israelis, that is. But regardless of what you think, fighting occupiers have always been noble as French did against Germans and Hezbollah did against Israel and your manipulation does not change that fact.

  • Kat

    Faramin–don’t be so obtuse.
    From Mr. Clinton:
    http://www.uscirf.gov/reports/01Nov00/iran.php3?scale=800
    (Members of the officially-recognized non-Muslim minorities – Christians, Jews and Zoroastrians – are subject to legal and other forms of official discrimination. They are reportedly (1) prohibited from being elected to a representative body (except for reserved seats in the National Parliament); (2) prohibited from serving in the army, the security services, and the judiciary, and from becoming school principals (even in private minority schools); (3) limited in their access to higher education; and (4) suffer discrimination in legal proceedings. )
    (Members of the Baha’i community suffer the worst forms of religious persecution at the hands of the state.)
    Read the whole thing, Faramin. Educate yourself. Don’t live in that cave all your life believing the brainwashing you suffered at the hands of those mullahs.

  • Faramin

    Oh, it must be “true” if Mr. Clinton says it. But I think it was also Clinton who called Iran more democractic than most middle esatern countries (Call it US allies). A thing that I would disagree with Mr. Clinton, as I do not believe Iran is a democracy.
    (1) prohibited from being elected to a representative body (except for reserved seats in the National Parliament)
    The main so-called elected representative body IS the Notional Parliament anyway. Others ARE non-elecetd. So, your point is?
    (2) prohibited from serving in the army, the security services, and the judiciary, and from becoming school principals (even in private minority schools)
    Not true, as ussual! I personally know Christians serving in Iran’s army.
    (3) limited in their access to higher education
    What is “limited”? I knew quite few Christians and Jews in Iran’s Universities.
    (4) suffer discrimination in legal proceedings. ) (Members of the Baha’i community suffer the worst forms of religious persecution at the hands of the state.)
    I agree with the case of Bahai’s. There ARE being discriminated in Iran. But then again, is there no discrimination in the US against the minorities?
    See Kat? four points, three lies. You are absolutely entitled to your opinion, but not your facts. So please don’t make a fool of yourself more than you’ve already done by non-sense high volume/low value commentaries.

  • Kat

    Well, you are prohibited from being an officer, though you may qualify as long as they think you are muslim. He got 3 years for the army thing and faces death for converting. They’ll just declare him a spy. Since 1990, several ex-Muslims who converted to Christianity have been either assassinated or executed by court order, under the guise of accusations of spying for foreign countries.
    JAILED IRANIAN PASTOR FINALLY PRODUCED IN COURT
    February 4 (Compass) — Christian lay pastor Hamid Pourmand went on trial before a military court in Tehran last week, charged with deceiving the Iranian armed forces about his religion. It was the first time Iranian authorities have produced Pourmand since his arrest five months ago. An army colonel, Pourmand converted from Islam to Christianity nearly 25 years ago. Iranian laws prohibit non-Muslims from serving as military officers. However, Pourmand reportedly declared in court last week that he had documented proof that the army knew he had become a Christian before he was ever given officer rank. It is expected that regardless of the outcome of his deception charges before the military court, Pourmand will now be forcibly discharged from the Iranian army. Pourmand also faces another trial on two separate charges of apostasy and proselytizing. Under Iranian law, apostasy is a capital offense.
    Human Rights Report:
    (All religious minorities suffered varying degrees of officially sanctioned discrimination, particularly in the areas of employment, education, and housing.

  • http://RuthCalvo Ruth

    Please, you two (or three) get a room.

  • Eileen

    Apparently some people don’t like hearing good news. They’re the same kind who can’t stand to see successful U.S. policies bearing freedom fruit, and who also abhor kind words of any kind.
    Hatred is utterly toxic. Fortunately the EU and Spanish Muslims have both moved to stem the depraved Islamist tide. Next steps will hopefully include further legally binding EU resolutions, and many, many more Muslim fatwas which carry both moral And legal weight. It IS about damned time!
    Speaking of the law, allow me to accurately complete Faramin’s phrase, “Perhaps that’s why your justice system …” as follows: …is known for being the best on the face of the Earth. Gee thanks, Faramin.
    As for suggestions re getting rooms, perhaps one should instead concern oneself with getting an email/blog link that works?

  • Faramin

    Eileen,
    Apparently some people don’t like hearing good news. They’re the same kind who can’t stand to see successful U.S. policies bearing freedom fruit, and who also abhor kind words of any kind.
    Freedom? Perhaps anybody could say that but you. Are you not the same person who threatened me of refering me to CIA for the comments you didn’t like? It is not the rhetorics that count, it’s the real action of people. And you grossly fail to act as a person who respects freedom and democracy.
    Speaking of the law, allow me to accurately complete Faramin’s phrase, “Perhaps that’s why your justice system …” as follows: …is known for being the best on the face of the Earth.
    You should be smart enough to realize that I was just being polite by leaving it blank. Otherwise, you know what I really meant. But as far as your wish goes, I am sure the Nazis felt the same about their system.

  • Eileen

    You attacked; I responded with excessive restraint. Now you further attack, and I’ll just note I’m not answering you point by point re either assault On Purpose, in a determined effort to honor JJ’s request not to feed you, troll.

  • Faramin

    People like you always fall short when they are embarrassed. “Sorry” to embarrass you AGAIN.
    BTW, the real trolls are those so-called journalists who constantly lie to people or tell them half of the truth. They call others who expose their lies as trolls, but the real trolls are the ones who have no decency and honesty in what they report. The real trools are the ones who insult others, and when receive responses the same way, they delete the respondant. Something that happened many times recently. Yeah, this better fits the definition of being a “troll”, and your Brown-nosing doesn’t change that. The real trolls are also those who keep threatening people with whom they disagree, Sounds familiar?
    So, please tell me how do you feed yourself?