Justice?

Justice?

: You will remember that Iraqi blogger Zeyad‘s cousin was killed, allegedly at the hands of American soldiers. One of the soldiers put on trial in the case was just convicted of assault — forcing the Iraqi men into cold water at gunpoint — but acquitted of manslaughter because the defense said there was not proof that the man died. I do not know the details of the case but I have to say that doesn’t smell great and if the sentence is light, it’s not going to help. Glenn Reynolds’ background posts here.

  • Tom

    The sentence is definately light – 6 months. No dishonourable discharge, demotion one rank down. For ordering innocent civilians to be handcuffed and thrown in a river.
    This is bad on many levels. Hardly anyone believed Zeyads posting when it first came out, with many “credible” people explaining how it simply wasnt possible that something like this happened, blah blah blah. And Zeyad had the support of people like yourself and Instapundit.
    Now what chance do you think a normal Iraqi has or recieving justice when a relative or friend is beaten, downed, raped or otherwise by a US soldier?
    And seriously, six months? You’d get more than that for pushing someone elses car into a river in the states.

  • anonymous

    Show me the body…
    Please read the details of the case. There is NO BODY. Scientific testimony on a body that was found differed in the time of death, and no corpse was exhumed for the case.
    You can read the headline and call it murder, but prove it. Justice requires proof that a murder took place.
    http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsArticle.jhtml?type=worldNews&storyID=649289

  • Tom

    So if they just threw innocent people in the river then you would feel that this is fine?
    And were you one of the people dubious of the entire story when it first came out – I get the feeling you would have been.
    Its not the difference between murder, manslaughter or assaul that worries me the most in this story – it is that troops are throwing people into fast flowing rivers for no reason, and the only way attempts at justice seem to be possible is with the help of Instapundit and Chief Wiggles.
    And a big reason for this difficulty is the attitude a lot of people on the right seem to take – which is that any testimony by an Iraqi of abuse by US troops needs to be treated first with cynicism and doubt, then only given a hearing when right wingers tip their hats to the “reliability” of one of the sources.
    And I wonder if Instapundit would have treated a report by riverbend in the same way – or whether her “reliability” is less solid?

  • Patricia

    Let’s take the news reports on all sides with a grain of salt. I used to work in court and, after reading the news accounts, I sometimes wondered if the reporters were even in the room during the trial. The whole incident was terrible–let Zeyad’s family and the courts work it out.

  • http://ancapistan.typepad.com/ tex

    Suppose Bruce will notice you finally posted about this?

  • http://www.buzzmachine.com Jeff Jarvis

    Tex: If Bruce allowed comments, I’d leave one. I also note that he hasn’t reported on the verdict (after accusing me of silence… and I was silent only because I didn’t know what was happening… if he’d been nice enough to send me a link to his posts, I would have appreciated it… that being how blogs work). I don’t know enough to come to definitive conclusions about anything. But as I said in this post, I’m bothered by this.

  • http://ancapistan.typepad.com/ tex

    I can’t speak for Bruce, but from what I understand, the exhumation is in March, so I’m not sure what this verdict means in light of that.
    I guess, having read Bruce’s posts, I found it amusing that you broke silence at this particular point in the story.
    Surely Technorati picks up Flit?

  • http://www.buzzmachine.com Jeff Jarvis

    Tex:
    No, I never saw a Technorati link from Flit.
    Rather than just snarking perhaps Flit could have been helpful and sent me an email telling me that something was happening in the case. I’m not the AP; I don’t know what’s happening everywhere; like every blogger, I depend on others to let me know. As soon as I did know, I commented, for what that could be worth. I really hate this blog shtick of judging someone by what they don’t say. Perhaps I didn’t say anything because I didn’t know anything. And unlike some, I find that sufficient cause for silence.

  • http://ancapistan.typepad.com/ tex

    Well, I guess we’ll have to see what Bruce says.

  • http://www.buzzmachine.com Jeff Jarvis

    I’m happy to wait to see what Bruce says. He should give others the same courtesy. Rather than the snarky “well, gee, he hasn’t said anything when I think he should and so I’ll blast him,” it would be much better if he’d send me a link to a post he has written. Again, I’d leave a comment on his blog, but he doesn’t allow them.

  • Anonymous

    “So if they just threw innocent people in the river then you would feel that this is fine?”
    What a dumb ass question. Reasonable doubt. That’s it. Some of the posters think your a redneck “kill ‘em all” attitude if you ask for “reasonable doubt” (what a switch). Having “the” body (not just “a” body) is certainly reasonable, and the financial incentive of “being dead” is still being investigated (reports say he is alive and living in another part of Iraq so his family can collect death benefits from the government). You think Zeyad would actually turn in his family if this was the case?
    Zeyad is no pillar of truth. He blogs rumors and even though some things have been picked up by others they still remain unproven (take the “Marines Snipers” thing he ran from the hyper-biased Fallujah doctors).
    There are so many who think they are “open minded” simply because they “don’t believe the government.” Wrong–being open minded in this case means listening to both sides and then making some decisions. Amazing how gullible some people can be simply because “a blogger said it is true.”

  • http://www.snappingturtle.net/flit BruceR

    FWIW, I’m glad for Jeff’s comment today. This is the first court martial sentence attributable in part to a blogger’s journalism. I think we should all sit up and take notice of that.