BuzzMachine

I think you better check your current events and your near and far term history if you want to start a body count.
Start with the six million or so jews killed by Christians about half a century or so ago.
And how many Muslims have died in Iraq since we went in? I mean if we’re counting Christian dominated administrative leadership.
Would you like to reconsider the fact that Christians have killed more people in the name of Christianity than any other religion?
You and Malkin — you twist facts, and ignore history. And you do it in a medium where people can fact check you, but you don’t care, because all that matters is the buzz.
The BuzzMachine, yeah, that’s you.

Gee, and I thought the 6 million Jews died like the more than 6 million Christians died, because of some terrorist paganist named Hitler.
How come all Buddhists, Hindus, Christians, etc. disappear when sharia arrives?

Thought it should be noted that the Scott Elliott quoted in the article is the author (self-proclaimed “blogging Caesar”) of the popular Election Projection web site this past fall.

“Start with the six million or so jews killed by Christians about half a century or so ago.”
These people weren’t killed in the name of Christianity. And many of the killers weren’t Christian. Check out a history book some time, genius.

Shelley, while your arguments are mathematically correct, they do not support your conclusion. Calling the Holocaust a religious genocide is about as unserious as calling a catfight between Hillary Duff and Lindsay Lohan a religious war simply because both girls have religions. Hitler was a murderer who happened to be a Christian who happened to kill about as many Jews as Christians. The larger point is that Hitler didn’t murder to further Christianity. He murdered to further social-ism.
That you missed this crucial distinction doesn’t mean that Malkin is right. I am not sure if there is now a war against Christians as serious as the war on terror. But I’m sure there is a difference between killing terrorists who happen to be Muslims and killing people because they are Christians. Unless you seriously believe that US soldiers are killing Iraqis because they are Muslims, I don’t think there is any logical value when you ask “And how many Muslims have died in Iraq since we went in?”

As an aside, people should visit Shelley’s site and click through to the tinfoil project; it’s quite lovely.

What Shelly suggests is typical of
left-wing Islamo-terrorist propaganda.
The age old “Divide and Conquer”
technique.
And poorly read, uncritical Shelly
fell for it completely. No doubt
some village is missing their idiot.
Who has appeared, in textual form,
here.

Actually, Speer’s memoirs indicate that Hitler was an atheist. It’s also worth noting that “The White Rose” movement, very much the backbone of the “German Resistance” was organized and run by Christians. But if these facts are inconvenient for Shelley perhaps she would like to remember which religion Joseph Stalin, who murdered more people than Hitler, belonged to? Would she like to discuss the religion of Pol Pot? Perhaps she would care to take a stab at the religious background of Idi Amin, Chairman Mao, and Kim Il? Here’s a hint: None of them were Christian either.
Mind you, I think it legitimate to bring up the question of why Shelley does not wish to live in the present. If someone is being murdered in front of our eyes does Shelley truly wish to insist that we must pause to “check current events and near and far term history” before we do something about it? Leaving aside the point that what we are talking about *is* current events, just how many history books would Shelley have us read while the murder takes place? Would 2 such texts be enough to give the murderer enough of a headstart to suit Shelley’s tastes or would she prefer 3? o_O
Sorry, Shelley! That might be a convenient arrangement for the murderer and any wellwishers and accomplices the murderer might have, but such a pause is hardly part of the Social Compact, now is it? :P
So thanks for your attempts to introduce a red herring, but I’m afraid that instead you merely illuminated the point that both Miss Malkin and Mr Jarvis had made! In the process you also proved why it is that the war on Christmas does deserve to be fought here by its defenders even though it’s a very minor sideshow at the moment. Encourage Leftist atheists who blame the victim today and they will happily follow in the footsteps of their coreligionists Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Idi Amin et al, tomorrow. ^_^;

Giving any credence to Malkin’s “work” is
a litmus test for a fool.
The results in your case: POSITIVE

Democide

First of all, merry Christmas to all of you who celebrate it, from atheist me. This is ridiculous. I like to see all the trees and lights in stores, and wish all my friends who celebrate Christmas a merry Christmas — just as some of them wish me a happy “un-holiday.” I know they celebrate it, I sincerely hope they’re happy…no biggie. I would venture many atheists feel this way. Unlike the Christian right, we don’t want to impose on you; we just don’t want you imposing your irrational belief in god on us. Getting back to the topic: What I do not like to see is merging of church and state. It’s called CHRISTmas, not wintermas, or Santamas. It’s a Christian holiday. I’ll thank you to keep Christmas trees out of public buildings (and the same goes for menorahs or other religious symbols) and out of the public schools.

Yeah, Amy… because America was NEVER founded by people who wished to practice their religon publicly, and include it in their public lives. Not a single Founding Father or Framer or Minuteman would have EVER have allowed such a public display of faith- they would have recognized it four the tyranny it was and fought against it. How could we EVER have betrayed their sacrifice in such a way- by putting up a manger scene on public lands? They would have been shocked…that they had sacrificed their lives for our freedom of religon.

DaveP.:
You miss the point, m’thinks. There has *always* been a loud and long cry from the religious majority in this country whenever anyone tried to celebrate Halloween or Solstice or any other uncommon religious holiday via the government, mostly schools. *Yet* they want those same people to politely sit quietly and allow *their* religious celebrations in the same institutions.
It’s an all or none thing. If you allow Christian deco and rites, then Buddhist, Pagan, and yes, Athiest “rites” are to be allowed.

Oligonicella/Alkon
I believe you both miss the point. 82% of Americans are Christians. The country was founded on Judeo/Christian beliefs. LOVE IT OR LIVE IT.

Those opposed to Christmas displays and acknowledgment from the government have the upper hand in the constitutional argument, unfortunately. All that can be hoped for is that they can lower their hostility to it and “allow” the majority to express themselves while taking pride in thier civic monuments at the same time. Its not likely that oooooodja would be so giving however. It seems a losing war and they won’t settle for just banning government displays. Next they will boycott businesses that display and eventually protest religious buildings that display until they are no longer even remotely reminded (bothered) about what time of year it is.

The biggest problem facing Muslims is not the some in the West may be trying to stir up hatred against them, but it comes from within. 100,000 or more have been murdered in Algeria by Muslim extremist, and we know all too well the oppression and violence Muslims encounter throughout the world at the hands of their brethren. It is a smoke-screen, covering up real hatred & violence, to say some in the West are formenting hatred against violence.
On the question of religious display in the public square….I know some ardent secularist and atheists are offended by religious symbols and expressions, but why should we care? We have a word for those “offended” by such: bigots.

Oh, for God’s sake, people: It’s Christmas Eve. Can we please call a truce and not set off religious war here? Thank you. Merry Christmas.

Oh, and keeping in line with Jeff’s comment, which was posted while I was typing my response:
Merry Christmas, everybody!

Jeff, no. Doesn’t work.
You bring in the comment, you fan the flames of debate and then you come along and say, well, I didn’t mean this to happen and let’s get along because it’s Christmas Eve Therefore setting yourself up as the wise man in the very midst of the flames you helped start.
As Karl said in his weblog, why get into a comment thread when there is no communication between those who comment?
Better things to do.

The Baby Jesus loves you, Angelos!

Oh, for God’s sake, people: It’s Christmas Eve. Can we please call a truce and not set off religious war here? Thank you. Merry Christmas.
Jeff, when you cite Michelle Malkin’s “hate-filled” (to use her favorite term) nonsense to support a dubious point, and when someone (Shelley) disagrees with you using logic, it’s not quite fair to call off the discussion when her logic threatens to topple your house of cards.
I read the original Malkin piece and it is the usual garbage. The overwhelming number of cites which purport to “prove” that Christmas is under attack come from Vdare.com, a hysterical website that takes a legitimate issue (immigration control and its discontents) and slimes and distorts it with racial — and religious — mania. (See their “annual Christophobia awards”, most of which turn out to be bogus claims of anti-Christmas incidents. Last year, I sent Peter Brimelow a list of Christmas activities in NYC and he never answered.)
What do Malkin’s citations prove? Not a thing.
Regarding Hitler, it is true that he did nothing in the name of Christianity and that his belief system was a mishmash, but the fact is that everything he said about Jews was inculcated by the monks of the Catholic schools he was sent to as a boy in 19th century Austria.
QUOTE: “Adolf Hitler had visited the 1934 performance, [of the Oberammergau Passion play] giving it his eager blessing. “It is vital that the Passion play be continued at Oberammergau; for never has the menace of Jewry been so convincingly portrayed as in this presentation of what happened in the time of the Romans,” Hitler had said. “There one sees Pontius Pilate, a Roman racially and intellectually so superior, that he stands out like a firm, clean rock in the middle of the whole muck and mire of Jewry.” (Link:
http://www.christianitytoday.com/history/newsletter/2004/feb20.html)
Where did he get that, I wonder?
We should all be very happy that the US has a secular, commercialized and rather bland Christmas and that no one takes the sectarian stuff *too* seriously, including the supposed Christians among us. It makes for civic peace.
Merry Christmas, and I mean it.

Daine Ezer,
The Christians of Iraq, especially Mosul, are tonight afraid to go to church to celebrate Christmas not in spite of ‘the best of intentions’, as you put it, but directly due to the flagrant, criminal incompetence of the foreign occupying forces.

Quentin: and I thought the British could understand irony.
Ptolemy: Yes, they are savage, and Saddam Hussein had them pretty well contained. Now what was it we went to war against, then?

{Jehuda Bauer, Professor of Holocaust Studies at Hebrew University in Jerusalem, describes the real “god” of Hitler and the Nazis in his article, “The Trauma of the Holocaust: Some Historical Perspectives,” by saying: “”They wanted to go back to a pagan world, beautiful, naturalistic, where natural hierarchies based on the supremacy of the strong would be established, because strong equaled good, powerful equaled civilized. The world did have a kind of God, the merciless God of nature, the brutal God of races, the oppressive God of hierarchies.” In other words, definitely non-Christian. }Shelley’s kind of god, I think.
Historian Paul Johnson wrote that Hitler hated Christianity with a passion, adding that shortly after assuming power in 1933, Hitler told Hermann Rauschnig that he intended “to stamp out Christianity root and branch.”
As Hitler grew in power, he made other anti-Christian statements. For example, he was quoted in Hitler: A Study in Tyranny, by Allan Bullock, as saying: “I’ll make these damned parsons feel the power of the state in a way they would have never believed possible. For the moment, I am just keeping my eye upon them: if I ever have the slightest suspicion that they are getting dangerous, I will shoot the lot of them. This filthy reptile raises its head whenever there is a sign of weakness in the State, and therefore it must be stamped on. We have no sort of use for a fairy story invented by the Jews.”
It seems Hitler, like many modern-day politicians, spoke out of both sides of his mouth. And when he didn’t, his lackeys did. It may have been political pandering, just like many of our current politicians who invoke God’s name to gain support. }
Anyways, Merry Christmas all, and a blessed Christmas Eve–I am off to mass and then I serve up a huge Christmas Eve feast of perogies and lots of yummy stuff. God Bless .

In honor of Christmas Eve, I am closing the comments on this post. Merry Christmas. You’re welcome.