Vote early, vote often

Vote early, vote often
: Yehudit in my comments has an assignment for all of us — and spread the word quickly: Go to the home page of al-Jazeera and vote in their “poll”: Should Spain pull its troops out of Iraq?

Hmmmm.

  • http://www.themediadrop.com Tom

    If only there was one-button cache-clearing, this would be so much easier. Thanks for the link.

  • michael

    Well, I certainly hope no one on this blog will cite an on-line poll as evidence in support of their argument…

  • Joe Peden

    No, Michael, we know what is right.

  • Faramin

    Although with no real scientific value, these polls are supposed to be natural polls with the regular visitors and on its normal way.
    Nothing is healthy in what you and your unethical reader Yehudit is suggesting: absolutely, unethical journalism. By this, yet another dishonetsy, you are just showing how desparate you are.
    Imagine how it would be if all polls; rightwing or leftwing were dealt with in this way. Shame on you and what you call your ethics.

  • Rich

    Tom, being a bit anal, I run my IE6 with non standard settings.
    Click tools > Internet options and the Privacy tab. Then the advanced button. Tick in Override auto cookie handling. Spot in prompt for First party, and spot for block in third party then all the OK’s. Then go to Al-Jaz, popup asks to accept cookie from al-jaz, click no and put tick in box to make it permanent.
    Vote as your concience tells you, hit back and vote again repeat till bored.

  • Rich

    When you get bored with the popup questions every time you hit a new site take the tick out of Override auto cookie handling.

  • http://tnor.org/blog/ DSmith

    Now that’s funny.
    Voting in an online poll is now “unethical”?
    It’s not just funny, it’s laughable.
    As to Spain pulling out their troops, maybe at this time that’s just what should happen. Anybody that wants out, fine, don’t let the door hit you on the way out.
    We got into that whole mess at the UN from trying to appease Blair. Sometimes allies are more trouble than they’re worth.
    If we’d worry more about what’s the best thing to do, and less about what people think about us, we’d do a lot better, imo, and we’d get a heck of a lot more respect in the Arab world, which would translate into more success, etc.
    I’m tired of fighting a global WOT for a globe that doesn’t appreciate it, but would rather spend their time biting our ankles while they are waiting for the next Al Qaeda demand to show up. Screw ‘em. We’re fighting this war for us, and we should conduct it for our benefit. If that happens to help others, fine. If not, tough cookies.
    Yeah, color me tired and cynical. :)

  • d.s.

    Faramin – The “poll” is a farce in the first place, as all these online polls are. The authors of the poll know how ridiculously unrrepresentative and misleading it is, yet still present it on their front page knowing that less savvy people will be misled by it – that’s unethical in the first place. (Whether it’s al jazeera or CNN). So I don’t see the harm in protesting by messing with it. It’ll be no more or less accurate after than before, but it may tweak al-jazeera’s nose.
    So save us your righteous indignation.

  • http://myblahg.blogspot.com Robert McClelland

    >I’m tired of fighting a global WOT for a globe that doesn’t appreciate it, but would rather spend their time biting our ankles while they are waiting for the next Al Qaeda demand to show up. Screw ‘em. We’re fighting this war for us, and we should conduct it for our benefit. If that happens to help others, fine. If not, tough cookies.
    And I’m tired of always being accused of not supporting the WOT by ungrateful numbnuts like you who refuse to acknowledge that Canadian soldiers are dying in Afghanistan. I’m to the point where I say screw America and think Canada should let AQ terrorists freely use our country as a staging ground to blow your asses to kingdom come.

  • rich

    I just noticed that the current standing is
    Yes 60%
    No 35%
    Unsure 4%
    Now pardon my math, but how do you get 99% on a poll like this you can’t have 1% did not vote surely.

  • Mork

    DSmith – if you took a look around, you’d see that most of the western world is united in the war against terrorism.
    They just don’t believe that Iraq had anything to do with it.

  • onecent

    ….. if you took a look around, you’d see that most of the western world is united in the war against terrorism. They just don’t believe that Iraq had anything to do with it..
    Given that your premise is true, can you point to any united effort/tangible plan in all of this time(we are talking decades here) by the non-coalition countries in Europe, who disapprove of Iraq, but nonetheless are united against terrorism? Germany, France, Russia…..where’s their plan, other than the occasional police action within their borders when confrontation isn’t avoidable?
    Let me ask you this, if America disappeared off the face of the earth tomorrow with the same threat to Europe in place, what would be the Europeans plan to save themselves?
    I’ll believe in Europe’s seriousness when they issue a united manifesto, take their own militaries seriously, fund them, and make some sacrifices.

  • Mork

    onecent – take a look at the list of countries that have troops in the ground in Afghanistan.
    There is also a hell of a lot of intelligence sharing and co-operation, which necessarily is largely out of the public eye.
    In fact, why don’t you point me to anything that you know of that they should be doing but aren’t … other than participating in Iraq.

  • Doctor Slack

    Germany, France, Russia…..where’s their plan, other than the occasional police action within their borders when confrontation isn’t avoidable?
    The question’s abusive tone means it’s probably insincere, but for anyone who is interested in how the European Union responded to terrorism, and in particularly to the attacks of 9/11, this link is a good place to start. Via the EU site.
    Of course, the EC is there only to complement the efforts of member states. On the global stage and particularly in military affairs, the Europeans are traditionally accustomed to collaborating with the US as much as possible, but Jacques Chirac enthusiastically agrees with onecent that Europe needs a much better autonomous defense capability, and is working to precisely that end with the idea of creating the EDU — in which Germany is a potential junior partner.
    Russia, of course, isn’t really part of the Western world. But it’s important nevertheless, and it has problems of its own, apparently on a slow slide back into autocracy while the whole Chechnyan war festers. In general Russian policy seems to be focussed on navigating between the US and Europe while trying to steer regional politics in its favour. Central Asia is a particularly sore point, since most governments there favour an American presence as a counterweight to Russia.
    That’s what I’ve been able to glean, anyway.

  • Mork

    And then there’s this:
    http://www.eubusiness.com/afp/040318101927.gsn430bz
    (BTW, the current administration opposes European efforts to create an independent defense force, because it would rather that European security were co-ordinated through NATO, which the U.S. effectively controls.)

  • http://www.themediadrop.com Tom

    Hey Rich – thanks for the tip! Could be useful =)

  • onecent

    take a look at the list of countries that have troops in the ground in Afghanistan……….more telling are the countries that are missing, my point being that not all of Europe is serious about terrorism. Most amazing is that the the EU is just getting around to scheduling a joint summit on the problem. Just now.
    Some of those countries have troops in Iraq in very paltry numbers. Canada?
    Sharing intelligence about the rabid dog in your neighborhood is a far cry from going out and killing it. Whose killing the dog? My point.

  • Mork

    Come on, onecent. Be specific: what are European nations failing to do that you believe they should be doing to combat terrorism, apart from supporting the invasion of Iraq?

  • hen

    well let’s see..for one Mork the EU refuses to investigate where the money it gives the PA goes to. The EU refuses to stop treating Arafat as the elected leader of the “palestinian” people. The Euros refused to back their own UN resolutions against Iraq. The Euros refuse to do anything to prevent Iran’s nuke development….should i go on…?

  • Doctor Slack

    the EU refuses to investigate where the money it gives the PA goes to
    The EU details its official relationship with the PA here. There’s little secret about where that staggering amount of money was going — it was lining the pockets of Arafat and his clique. (There’s a long history of Palestinian politicians portraying themselves as “freedom fighters” while in fact using Israel, and the conflict with it, to line their own pockets.) I see the Scotsman has a good story on it here, which also notes the EU has quietly switched away from funding the PA to funding NGOs instead.
    Of course, it’s not exactly the first time aid money has gone awry. Hosni Mubarak in Egypt, second-largest recipient of American foreign aid at $2 billion per year, has been plausibly accused of massive corruption which is fuelling resistance to his regime.
    The EU refuses to stop treating Arafat as the elected leader of the “palestinian” people
    1. Why the scare quotes?
    2. In any case, this makes no sense. Ahmed Qurei has been the elected leader of the Palestinians since last year. (He’s arguably a cat’s-paw for Arafat, but the only other option for external powers is to declare someone else the Palestinians’ leader by fiat.)
    The Euros refused to back their own UN resolutions against Iraq.
    … which has nothing to do with terrorism, and is irrelevant here. And their refusal to let those resolutions be misused to launch a war on false pretexts turned out to be justified on the legal merits. (Yes, cue squawking about “do you wish Saddam was still there?” But that’s not the issue you’re addressing.)
    The Euros refuse to do anything to prevent Iran’s nuke development
    Wrong. The EU was key in establishing inspections of Iran’s nuclear facilities and did most of the heavy lifting on the issue while Bush was focussed on Iraq. (Why was he focussed on Iraq when Iran actually had the ability to develop nukes? Good question.) There’s a useful timeline here. In a movie we’ve seen before, the Bush Admin has of course dismissed the results of the inspections — can you say “credibility gap”?

  • hen

    slack – uh huh. if the EU is now investigating where its blood money is going to it was done beyond reluctantly. i remember Patten saying he doesn’t want to know. have they stopped funding the “palestinean” terror machine? somehow i doubt it. oh and i agree Egypt sh get exactly nothing from us.
    scare quotes because “palestine” is a made up place, like Oz or Atlantis and your statement that Q is their elected PM is laughable.
    if you wish to believe that Iraq isn’t/wasn’t a terrorist state, that’s fine. i don;t.
    please the Euro’s much like the UN and the nuke watch agency are playing patty cake with the mad mullahs – altho i agree with your assesment on Bush ignoring Iran for Iraq, but it’s not too late to dump a whole bunch of firepower on their nuke facilities and the entire problem goes bye bye

  • Rooster

    “The EU refuses to stop treating Arafat as the elected leader of the “palestinian” people”
    hen, What a brainless statement! You know why the EU treats Arafat as the elected leader? It’s simple, it’s because Arafat IS THE ELECTED LEADER.
    You don’t like it? too bad.

  • Doctor Slack

    if the EU is now investigating where its blood money is going to it was done beyond reluctantly.
    Welcome to politics. And frankly, I’m a hell of a lot more worried by Pakistan and Saudi Arabia on the global terrorism front.
    scare quotes because “palestine” is a made up place, like Oz or Atlantis. . .
    Or “Israel”?
    your statement that Q is their elected PM is laughable.
    I think you meant to say “factual.” Because it is. Maybe you’re trying to say Arafat is their de facto leader, but he isn’t currently their elected leader (sorry Rooster) and the EU does not in fact treat him that way.
    please the Euro’s much like the UN and the nuke watch agency are playing patty cake with the mad mullahs
    1. The IAEA’s inspection process is proven. They were right about Iraq, Bush was wrong. So I don’t buy that they were merely “playing patty cake.”
    2. But for the sake of argument, would you support the development of an independent European Defense Force so that Europe has the option of implementing effective military solutions when it’s deemed necessary?

  • hen

    rooster – you forgot the “sarcasm tag”. arafat is the elected leader? really? when did he run? explain to me the political system of “Palestine”? who did he run against? was Saddam “democratically elected leader”? how bout Stalin? how often does “Palestine” have elections” so on and so forth. dope.

  • hen

    thanks for the welcome to politics but if you followed the EU’s twists and machinations it is much more then “politics” – it’s more like support of terrorism.
    uh no Israel is a country. much like the US, Australia, even little countries like Belize. “Palestine” is fiction.
    really who “elected” him? i thought he was appointed by the terrorist/dictator Arafat – pls enlighten me.
    the IAEA is a joke. NK, Libya and now Iran are or have tooled them around like the idiots they are. but to your question, Europe can do whatever it wants. i just hope that the US pulls out every single soldier from ALL of Europe and tell them NATO is done, defend yourself, deal with your backyard problems by yourself. then we should form new pacts with allies who we can depend on.

  • Doctor Slack

    if you followed the EU’s twists and machinations it is much more then “politics” – it’s more like support of terrorism.
    I wouldn’t rule out the possibility that some money made it into the hands of terrorists — though everything I’ve seen indicates it’s tied up in villas, luxurious lifestyles for Mrs. Arafat, and get-rich-quick schemes. But if you’re alleging deliberate support for terrorism, I’d say that’s probably in the same realm of conspiracy theory as calling Bush’s relationship with the Saudis “support for terrorism.”
    uh no Israel is a country.
    The Israeli yishuv was a “made-up place” for more than half a century before it became a country. Does that mean Israel’s aspirations were illegitimate? If not, then why would you try to imply that about Palestinians?
    the IAEA is a joke.
    Heh. Let’s just say that given their word and yours (or Bush’s) about the question of nuclear armament, I’ll take theirs, thanks.
    i just hope that the US pulls out every single soldier from ALL of Europe and tell them NATO is done
    So, Europe should develop its own collective military, but only if it ceases to be allied with the US. Good thing you’re not running the State Department.

  • hen

    nice of you not to rule out the possibility that most of the EU’s $$ to the PA ended up paying for villas, swiss bank accounts and terrorism. oh and my point is i don’t think the EU cares if their $$ goes to fund terrorism against Israel – everything Chris Patten and the UN say indicates to me that the only thing they regret about Hitler is he didn’t finish the job.
    before “Israel” became Israel it was not a country — maybe someday down the road “palestine” will be more then just a factory for little killbots, but until that day arrives the idea that “palestine” is anything more then a PR ploy and a joke just goes in one of my ears and out the other.
    IAEA – let’s stay on topic – do you think the IAEA has done a good job based on what we now know has happened in Libya and NK? and what is most likely going on in Iraq? fine we agree to disagree.
    i cd never run the State dept – i don’t hate Jews enough for them.

  • hen

    for what it’s worth based on our civil disagreement, i apologize for lumping you in with the brain dead Bobby the Mental Midget(tm).
    altho i am kind of bored at this point….

  • Doctor Slack

    everything Chris Patten and the UN say indicates to me that the only thing they regret about Hitler
    Yeah, as soon as Hitler comes up in any discussion I pretty much tune out. Over the top.
    do you think the IAEA has done a good job based on what we now know has happened in Libya and NK?
    Given its mandate and resources, sure. The IAEA is meant to be a supplement to international action and diplomacy, not a replacement for it. It’s been fallible, but generally is still quite reputable. Certainly moreso than many of its critics.
    for what it’s worth based on our civil disagreement,
    Hey, it’s all good. I’m sure we’ll manage some uncivil disagreement before too long. ;-)