Bastards

Bastards
: They’re calling it Spain’s 9/11:

There was no advance warning of the attacks. At first, the Spanish authorities blamed E.T.A., the Basque group that has been seeking independence from Spain for more than three decades.

Later today, however, the Interior Ministry said the police had found a van with detonators and an Arabic-language tape of Koranic verses, according to news agencies, and that it was considering all lines of investigation.

An Arabic newspaper, Al-Quds al-Arabi, said it had received a claim of responsibility for the train bombings issued in the name of Al Qaeda.

The five-page e-mail claim, signed by the shadowy Brigade of Abu Hafs al-Masri, was received at the paper’s London offices. It said the brigade’s `death squad” had penetrated “one of the pillars of the crusade alliance, Spain.”

“This is part of settling old accounts with Spain, the crusader, and America’s ally in its war against Islam,” the claim said.

They want a crusade, let’s give ‘em a crusade.

  • shark

    You want to give them a crusade? START BY REELECTING BUSH. ALL KERRY WILL DO IS ASK KOFI ANNON TO SERVE A WARRANT ON THEM.
    PS- Notice how Kofi and his son are knee deep in the oil for food corruption? And there goes the illusion of the UN as being even remotely useful…Kofi and Koji kept the money while Saddam slaughtered his people. Nice. And you want to elect a president Kerry who will kiss their butts??

  • shark

    And at the risk of making a comment I surely will be flamed for:
    I mourn for the people of Spain. I wish this had happened in France.

  • http://www.snappytheclam.com jbm

    I mourn for the people of Spain. I wish this had happened in France.
    You’re not worth flaming, tool.

  • http://www.bopnews.com MattS

    This is a terrible thing to happen. We need to support our ally.
    But a crusade? This is not a war between Muslims and Christians, but between radical extremists and moderates.

  • http://www.photodude.com/ Reid

    Oh, no, you said the C-word.
    You do realize the connotations that word has: killing in the name of your God. So, is this an endorsement of that concept?

  • Mustapha

    I mourn for the victims in Spain too. 90% of their public was against their prime minister’s adventure in Iraq. I wish this had happened in Britain or America

  • http://myblahg.blogspot.com Robert McClelland

    >There was no advance warning of the attacks.
    Didn’t France just conduct a massive search of all of its trains and tracks just a few days ago?

  • http://www.musingsofafatkid.blogspot.com fat kid

    No crusade, but how about a moment of silence to start. Go roll by instapundit too, a reader posted a great idea of sending flowers to the Spanish Embassy in D.C.

  • Mustapha

    Jeff: if 200 Spaniards has you declaring a crusade, how do you think we Muslims feel about 4000 civilians killed in Afghanistan, and another 10,000 in Iraq? Is a jihad against the West justified? We have 70 times more justification for blowing away your people according to your logic

  • Mork

    They want a crusade, let’s give ‘em a crusade.
    Odious and stupid.
    YOu need to make up your mind whether you want this to be a struggle between civilization and barbarity, or between two different forms of barbarity.

  • http://www.musingsofafatkid.blogspot.com fat kid

    Mustapha – Forgive me for not taking whatever point you’re trying to make with 100% seriousness – it’s difficult when your identify is veiled behind a bs email address, and no other form of ID – the whole hijab thing, eh?
    Regardless, loss of life is loss of life – to be regretted in every instance…. …. Unless you’re a Palestinian/Mujahadeen, in which case suicide bombings are praised, and rewarded. With cash.
    Remind me again which society is “morally bankrupt”?

  • weimdog

    Al-Qaida attacks since September 11 2001:
    April 11 2002: carried out a firebombing of a synagogue in Tunisia that killed 19 and injured 22.
    May 11: Linked to a suicide bombing that killed 14 people, most of them French naval engineers, outside a Karachi hotel
    June 14: Reported to have funded a suicide car bomb attack on the United States consulate in Karachi that killed 12 people and injured 45
    October 6: Directed a suicide attack on the French supertanker Limburg off the coast of Yemen
    October 8: Responsible for an attack on US military personnel in Kuwait that killed one US soldier and injured another
    October 12: Bombed a nightclub in Bali, Indonesia, killing 202, mostly westerners
    October 28: Linked to shooting of US diplomat Laurence Foley in Amman, Jordan
    November 28: Bombed the Israeli-owned Paradise Hotel in Mombasa, Kenya, killing 15 and injuring 40, minutes after two missiles narrowly missed an Israeli holiday jet that had just taken off from the city’s airport
    May 12 2003: Believed to be behind suicide bomb attacks on western housing compounds in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia
    Not to mention attacks on Israelis -
    etween September 29, 2000, and February 1, 2004, Magen David Adom treated a total of 6,145 casualties as follows: 823 killed, 534 severely injured, 759 moderately and 4,029 lightly injured, among them 11 MDA staff members. (IDF casualties treated by IDF medical personnel are not included in these figures.) Note: This list also includes 6 Israelis killed abroad in terror attacks directed specifically against Israeli targets, and 3 American diplomatic personnel killed in Gaza.

  • Mustapha

    Weimdog: so government terrorism is ok but the actions of a few crazies aren’t? Let’s get the Pakistani government to slaughter every christian in that country–hey, it can’t be terrorism, it’s done by the government!

  • onecent

    Mustapha:
    if 200 Spaniards has you declaring a crusade, how do you think we Muslims feel about 4000 civilians killed in Afghanistan, and another 10,000 in Iraq?
    Your numbers are bogus. Go to Google or Nexus and come back with some accurate numbers.
    Quit frankly, I’m beyond caring about Muslims’ feelings. Let’s try action. Can you name any mass(key word here) demonstrations by Muslims or their clerics anywhere in the past 20 years denouncing the terrorism in the name of Islam? I know of no Christian or Jew in my sphere of friendships, that if their religion took credit for so much accumulated carnage, would still have their mouths shut. Care to explain why that is?
    I wish this had happened in Britain or America.
    I bet you do. And you have proved my point.
    And a crusade you deservedly get.

  • Sydney

    Mustapha,
    You wish it had happened in America? You support the killing of innocent civilians, then? Go to hell.

  • hen

    Mustapha – you never did tell me how big is the book you use to beat your wife? Or do you use your Koran?
    200 dead, over 1,000 wounded innocent civilians and Mustapha the Moron spews his idiocy.
    Hey MuMu why don’t you put your money where your mouth is: Go to Iraq, or Afghanistan or hell even in America, and wage your jihad and see how far you get. My only regret would be not knowing if you died quickly or slowly. I wd hope for a slow and painful death.
    To Mork – What should we do now that the terrorists don’t realize that this is not a game? Hide? Go crying to the UN? Jeff is right – if it is death that they love, then we shall deliver it to them in spades.
    Put down your bong and buy a f’ing clue.

  • hen

    oh and one last thing, let’s not forget: John F’ing Kerry, Howard Stern’s candidate, believes terrorism is a “criminal matter”.
    book ‘em johnnie boy.

  • Blue Eyed Devil

    It’s a terrible day. The thought of all those grieving families tonight is more than I can stand. Blood lust on this scale can not be justified and must not be appeased. Some will try to do both in the days to come. Shun them. I never fly any other flag but the stars and stripes. But tonight I will make an exception. Spain is a force for good in this world. She does not deserve this.
    Tim H.
    Philadelphia

  • Jeff B.

    mustapha: You’re absolutely right. What you describe wouldn’t be terrorism; it becomes something else entirely when carried out by a state actor. “Government terrorism” is an impossible term which is literally incoherent on its face, unless perhaps you refer to a government’s sponsorship of terrorist acts in other countries (NOT DECLARED WAR, but terrorist actions), like say Libya’s involvement with Pan Am Flight 102.
    It’s every bit as abhorrent as terrorism, but it is a creature of a different stripe, and hence, your attempts to argue by reference to such acts (or by reference to civilian casualties inflicted by America in two declared wars, which is FAR, FAR removed from either of the concepts being discussed, and far less evil, albeit tragic nonetheless) are completely fatuous. You are comparing two things which are alike only inasmuch that the end result involves dead civilians, but are completely structurally different underneath that outer layer. It’s like comparing insect wings, bird wings, and bat wings and saying they’re all phylogenetically related to one another since they all enable flight – an egregious misunderstanding caused by having only the most superficial of surface understandings of the subject.
    Ergo, your comparisons are totally BS.
    Please leave this thread to people capable of more rigorous thought.

  • Doctor Slack

    Hmmm. Turns out “shark” is something of a troll. The war bloc’s Francophobia has been pretty childish and indulgent at the best of times, but wishing terrorist attacks on France… there are no words for garbage like that.
    You need to make up your mind whether you want this to be a struggle between civilization and barbarity, or between two different forms of barbarity.
    Yes. Exactly.
    What should we do now that the terrorists don’t realize that this is not a game? Hide? Go crying to the UN?
    Invent strawman arguments and knock them down? Play tough guy in front of our keyboards? Yammer and beat our chests and shout “let us bring them death” instead of demanding a cohesive anti-terror strategy from our governments?
    (Incidentally, do you believe Bush was weak and evil to “run crying to the UN” to help him in Iraq after he screwed it up?)
    John F’ing Kerry, Howard Stern’s candidate, believes terrorism is a “criminal matter”.
    This one is becoming a tired cliche faster than I would ever have thought possible. There are two big problems with it:
    1. It’s flat-out insulting to the law and law enforcement to pretend they have no role in fighting terrorism or that only weaklings would rely on them. These people deserve your respect.
    2. It’s a simple lie to pretend that Kerry has ever said terrorism is solely a “criminal matter,” as even a casual perusal of his various speeches and statements reveals. He has said that the law enforcement and intelligence angles have been neglected by Bush… and he’s right.

  • Blue Eyed Devil

    Between Afghanistan and Iraq 50 million Muslims were set free from their Muslim tormentors. You would have to be one of those tormentors in order to see it any other way.
    Tim H.
    Philadelphia

  • Charlie (Colorado)

    Didn’t France just conduct a massive search of all of its trains and tracks just a few days ago?
    Dammit, Robert, just when I’ve concluded you are a complete idiot, you go and say something perspicacious. You’re absolutly right; this seems (from the open sources) to exactly match the concerns the French had. Either the intel was off by one country, or alQ decided Madrid was the softer target.
    Oh, no, you said the C-word.
    You do realize the connotations that word has: killing in the name of your God. So, is this an endorsement of that concept?
    Reid, I doubt that Jeff really meant it that way, and in any case I think he’s angry — but then, I’m so pissed off I can hardly see, so I’m inclined to cut him lots of slack.
    But I agree with him: if they want a crusade, they should get one. A crusade of the liberal world against the forces of fascism.

  • Doctor Slack

    You are comparing two things which are alike only inasmuch that the end result involves dead civilians, but are completely structurally different underneath that outer layer.
    So, you’re saying that civilian casualties inflicted in declared wars by state actors are less evil than those killed by terrorism… simply because they were killed by states? Dude, that’s pretty fatuous. Would you feel any different about the dead of 9/11 if they’d been killed by, say, foreign missiles instead of hijacked planes?
    Troll though Mustapha is, his point about the hypocrisy of accepting civilian death in one circumstance and decrying it as absolutely evil in another is actually quite sound.

  • ralph

    “They want a crusade, let’s give ‘em a crusade.”
    Christians in the eleventh century were not paranoid fanatics. Muslims really were gunning for them. While Muslims can be peaceful, Islam was born in war and grew the same way. From the time of Mohammed, the means of Muslim expansion was always the sword. Muslim thought divides the world into two spheres, the Abode of Islam and the Abode of War. Christianity

  • http://myblahg.blogspot.com Robert McClelland

    >the hypocrisy of accepting civilian death in one circumstance and decrying it as absolutely evil in another is actually quite sound.
    According to the right whingers, the difference between good killing and evil killing is soley determined by whether or not the killers wear matching uniforms.

  • http://www.buzzmachine.com Jeff Jarvis

    A crusade against terrorists? You bet. A jihad against jihadists? What else?

  • onecent

    Between Afghanistan and Iraq 50 million Muslims were set free from their Muslim tormentors
    Mustapha, catch the irony? The majority of their fellow Muslims sneered on the sidelines, adding no forceful muscle to the task.
    Doctor Slack:
    These people deserve your respect….whose dis’ing law enforcement? Kerry,is still an idiot.
    He has said that the law enforcement and intelligence angles have been neglected by Bush.
    The reason he is an idiot.

  • Blue Eyed Devil

    50 million are FREE! How many people have the IslamoTerrorNuts set free? I didn’t think the murder justification and appeasment would start so soon.
    Tim

  • Charlie (Colorado)

    According to the right whingers, the difference between good killing and evil killing is soley determined by whether or not the killers wear matching uniforms.
    Oh, thank God. I thought someone had forged Robert’s name. But here’s the old idiot.
    Robert, you are aware that the source of this is called “the Geneva Conventions” and exists to establish a difference between civilians and combatants?
    You’d prefer there to be no established difference between civilians and combatants?

  • Charlie (Colorado)

    A crusade against terrorists? You bet. A jihad against jihadists? What else?
    Mr Speaker, I’d like to associate myself wholeheartedly with the Honorable Member’s recent remarks.

  • Joe Peden

    Mustapha, thy name is McCelland, which is Liberal, which is Terrorist, which is Sadomasochist, which is Kerry. Which is you.

  • Mork

    A crusade against terrorists? You bet. A jihad against jihadists? What else?
    Come on, Jeff. Using the term “crusade” to describe the process of defeating terrorists, if that is what you really mean, is just empty chest-beating.
    Everyone agrees that terrorist networks need to be destroyed, and individual terrorists neutralised, whatever it takes. Adding the word “crusade” doesn’t make the project any more noble, or more likely to succeed, than did appending the word “war” to our efforts to end the drug trade.
    But, as you well know, when you use the word “crusade”, you’re not really talking about just rooting out terrorists, are you?

  • shark

    I’m a troll Dr. Slack? Not really. A troll is someone who pops onto a board, throws a verbal firebomb designed to p*ss people off, and leaves.
    You dont like my opinion, fine. I don’t much care for yours either. But lay off the snide comments.
    As for what I said- I stand by it. Spain doesn’t deserve to have this happen to it. France does. I wish that the anti-semites and anti-americans in France were the ones mourning tonight instead of the good people of Spain. Like I said, feel free to take issue, but a couple of bad terror attacks in certain European nations would sure have a big impact on the way they currently act…

  • Mork

    So, shark:
    You want terrorists to mount a successful attack against France because in your view, French people don’t feel sufficiently threatened by terrorism.
    Can you explain to me how that distinguishable from outright support for terrorists?

  • http://weblog.burningbird.net Shelley

    Jeff, look at what your pugnacious words caused? Rather than mourning for the people in Spain, we have hate, undefied, unfiltered, unashamed hate.
    I had expected a statement with talk of crusades from Little Green Footballs, but not from a person who considers himself a professional journalist.
    MattS had it right when he said “But a crusade? This is not a war between Muslims and Christians, but between radical extremists and moderates.”
    Are you an extremist, too, Jeff?

  • Mustapha

    HAHAHHAHAHAA
    50 million Muslims set FREE?? I mean, drinking the Kool-aid is one thing, but I think some of you have a lifetime corporate discount on the stuff! To the people who said that: what is your thought on utterly free and fair elections in Iraq, given that they are a generally religious people, and 60% Shia? Do you support this election, no matter what the results?
    And whoever it was, PLEASE don’t call me a leftist! The Right hates us because of mostly religious reasons, and the Left might defend a few Muslims but it’s usually from an assumed “Let’s help the poor backwards savages” condescension. Simply two sides of the same coin as far as I’m concerned.
    And to the “rigorous thinker” who thinks government killing is structurally and totally different from the EVIL (oh my!) killing of a few Muslim crazies: thanks, it’s good to know our enemies can’t even think come up with an internally consistent argument for slaughtering us.

  • http://leatherpenguin.blogspot.com TC

    Wanna get all payback like, Newhouse?
    http://leatherpenguin.com/LPP/ICTUS/essays/THE%20LETTER/lynch4.html
    What’s the deal Jeff? You only get pissed if they toss NJ.Com or you EU loggers!)

  • Charlie (Colorado)

    Shelley, extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice.

  • Charlie

    Charlie: 120% right on buddy! That’s the central argument the Left doesn’t understand and never has. Maybe we need to take the gloves off, both abroad and against the unwitting domestic allies of terrorism.
    I mean, I wouldn’t put Kerry in jail or anything, but some of his extreme supporters need some extreme measures taken against them

  • http://weblog.burningbird.net Shelley

    Charlie from Colorado, over 200 years ago a bunch of terrorists snuck into New York City and set the city on fire to disrupt the existing authority.
    They were revolutionaries for a free country. They were terrorists. They were condemned.
    Two hundred plus years later, they are heros.
    Terrorism is unacceptable, and yes, it must be stopped. But you don’t stop one crusade by starting another.
    And thank you for Charlie, two, for making my point.

  • Charlie (2)

    Shelley: so you’re saying al-Qaida will be heroes 200 years from now? Whose side are you on?

  • http://weblog.burningbird.net Shelley

    Charlie, two, no I’m not. I was making a point about sweeping statements based on ‘defense of liberty’ and people’s viewpoint.
    As for you ‘sides’, there is no side in this issue. That’s talk from armchair warriers like yourself, who talk about sides while a lot of people are dying just because they’re in the wrong place at the wrong time. Like the people in Spain. Like a lot of people in Iraq.
    I said, and will repeat and then why don’t you go over to LGF and swim with the like minded folks — terrorism must be stopped. But you don’t stop one crusade by starting another.

  • Doctor Slack

    Mustapha, thy name is McCelland, which is Liberal, which is Terrorist, which is Sadomasochist, which is Kerry.
    Which is incoherent, which is silly. But thanks for injecting a little humour, Joe, even if it was unintentional.
    Spain doesn’t deserve to have this happen to it. France does.
    Yes, you’ve established that you desire the murder of people who disagree with you. Mork asked you how that’s distinguishable from outright support for al-Qaeda, and I second the motion. Who else does that charming little bit of schadenfreude extend to? Canada, Germany, Britain, Russia, China, Mexico, Turkey etc.? How about the half of the American populace or the majority of Brits and Australians who didn’t, and don’t? For that matter, the majority of Spaniards were opposed to their government’s involvement in the “Coalition of the Willing.”
    Very revealing stuff.
    extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice.
    Cliche in the defense of silliness, however, is.

  • Doctor Slack

    How about the half of the American populace . . . who didn’t, and don’t?
    End of that sentence should read “who didn’t, and don’t, support Bush?”

  • Charlie (Colorado)

    Cliche in the defense of silliness, however, is.
    And here I was worried no one would notice I was using a quotation.
    Considering who noticed, I suspect we’ve just seen an example of an idiot savant.

  • http://www.leftrightandretarded.com Derik

    For all the people attacking Jeff for the crusade statement, keep in mind that the terrorists love to call us “Crusaders.” Jeff is like most of the rest of us and is pissed off. A few have stepped up to defend Jeff, and I think that he was right in saying what he did. They want to think we’re Crusaders? Fine. Then we’ll show them what a real Crusade is. We’re not looking to score the Holy Land back, we’re just out to erase terrorism the same way we fought to erase Nazism from Europe. Hopefully we’ll do a bit better than we did in Europe though.

  • Mork

    Derik – why don’t you take a second to think about why it’s such an important part of Al Qaeda’s strategy to characterize us as “crusaders”.
    If you can work that out, you might be able to work out why it’s more in their interests than ours that the characterization be correct.

  • Doctor Slack

    For all the people attacking Jeff for the crusade statement, keep in mind that the terrorists love to call us “Crusaders.”
    And of course, it’s a stroke of propaganda genius to play into their rhetoric? Insurgents are not best fought by turning yourself into what the insurgents claim you are; it’s bad to let your enemy choose the ground in a conflict of ideas. Upset though Jeff might be, this is a fairly important point and it’s worth making.
    Considering who noticed, I suspect we’ve just seen an example of an idiot savant.
    Are you taking any prescription medication?

  • James Stephenson

    We Ran from Lebanon, and they came on.
    We Ran from Somalia and they came on.
    We were bombed in New York and we let the Law Enforcement handle it, they did their job admirably. We arrested the Cleric who was taking his orders from AQ. And they came on.
    They bombed the Cole, we bombed a few tents and they came on.
    They bombed the embassies in Africa and we bombed an Aspirin factory and they came on.
    They took guided missles(jets) and took down our WTC, and we came to them.
    You people keep talking how taking the war to them is wrong. Yet, they have no qualms of taking the war to us, they have been doing it for 20 years.
    Reminds me of that scene in Braveheart,
    “What would you do in my situation”.
    “I would send the local constable and arrest this brigand.”
    “This is the local Constable” Pointing to the head in the Basket.
    In this case though, the local constable is on their side. The only way to get to them is to send in small groups of Special Forces. Much like what is happening in Algeria. Question, as a sovereign government (The Taliban) supporting AQ would you allow the SF in to hunt them? Uh no. You have to make it a war.
    We were at war with Iraq for 12 years. We ended it, now there is no Saddam. The people of Iraq will vote. Quadaffi gives up his WMD. Syria arrests a group of people who are peacefully protesting for Democratic change. Iranian Students are emboldened by having Americans to the East and West of Iran and are peacefully protesting for Democratic Change.
    Pakistan and Saudia Arabia are making war with the extremists. Does any of this happen before Afghanistan or Iraq? Uh no. And we all know this, yet you people keep talking failure. We please give us 4 more years of failure and maybe two more countries in the Middle East will go Democratic.
    Would this be a bad thing in your eyes?

  • Sandy P.

    –And of course, it’s a stroke of propaganda genius to play into their rhetoric?–
    When I read that, I agreed. Great point.
    Slept on it. Dawned on me this morning that “rhetoric” is “gospel” in their book. We, the world, and what do w/Christians, Jews and unbelievers were defined 1400 years ago.
    It’s the Word of God, you’re not God and you can’t change it. So we play on their terms for now.

    Mustapha, the islamic world doesn’t blink an eye when they do it to each other. Why the different playing rules?

  • Sandy P.

    And Lileks says it better:
    …But it’s all a front. If there

  • Doctor Slack

    You people keep talking how taking the war to them is wrong.
    What people keep saying this? I know I’ve said we shouldn’t engage on the terms the insurgents dictate.
    Frankly, I find it troubling that so much of the war bloc seem to think they’re living in an action movie, with discrete groups of “bad guys” you can “take out” before the credits roll. Counterinsurgency doesn’t work that way — it’s fought on several fields at once, and one the key ones is ideology and propaganda. The more you play into hirabist jihad/crusade rhetoric, the easier it is for them to beat you at that game. And that means more recruits for them, more hidey-holes, more supporters… and ultimately more incidents like this.
    We were at war with Iraq for 12 years. We ended it, now there is no Saddam. The people of Iraq will vote.
    Except Saddam was tangential to this global insurgency, as we now know. And resources that were needed for that fight were pulled from it to hasten a confrontation with him. And the people of Iraq are on brink of a civil war.
    So really, in the war bloc, it’s time to grow up. Iraq on Bush’s timetable was a mistake and is verging on disaster; it’s already dealt a virtual deathblow to the reputation of America’s intelligence services — perhaps the key element to winning the fight against terrorism. It’s time to stop making excuses for this. It’s time to stop pretending it was necessary to get cooperation out of Pakistan, or to hasten Qaddafi’s already 4-5 year old effort to dissociate himself from WMD. Enough of this nonsense already.
    In this case though, the local constable is on their side.
    The Islamic world is fractured, right now, between the mainstream of Islam and the hirabists. (Hirabist is the Muslim term for extremists — especially those who kill the innocent.) The West can take advantage of those fractures, or not. There’s a hell of a lot more to this than just “sending in Special Forces.” You are not living in an action movie.
    Slept on it. Dawned on me this morning that “rhetoric” is “gospel” in their book. We, the world, and what do w/Christians, Jews and unbelievers were defined 1400 years ago.
    So what? Why should the “gospel” of a psychotic fraction of Islam define us? It’s not just that the culture of the Enlightenment is eminently worth defending — though that, I think, should be a given — it’s also that that culture is our best leverage against the psychotic factions now assaulting us, be they Maoists, ultranationalists or hirabists.
    The democratic society of laws is not a luxury. It’s not a frill. It’s not decoration, or an empty ornament to be evoked when you’ve been caught lying about your reasons for a war, or when you want to manipulate people into “call in the Marines” chest-beating. It’s our primary weapon against extremism, and it needs to be taken and treated deadly seriously.

  • Doctor Slack

    So what do I hope I’ll tell my child? Simple.
    That’s just the problem. It’s not. It isn’t going to be. There is no point in pretending otherwise.
    And I note Lileks doesn’t mention any Muslims as part of his “front.” Typical of him.